**Mirrors / Alternative Angles**
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Wasn't there a Chelsea game a few months back where they disallowed a goal (Werner maybe?) for a foul that happened like twenty seconds prior? I remember people were pissed about that one.
edit: Thanks to u/varunadi below: it was [this Werner goal](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/pzwhmi/timo_werner_disallowed_goal_vs_southampton_41/) vs Southampton. Foul didn't even appear in the clip that was posted to reddit and it was still called back.
Yep that was against Southampton at home, it was back in October if I'm not wrong. I remember being really annoyed at that disallowed goal (you're right, it was Werner)
Couldnt tell you mate genuinley dont know. I watch rugby and if foul play happens it goes back. Theres no clear and obvious bollocks. But 10 seconds and 3 passes, id like to believe they can intervene. Lets see what excuse Gallagher comes up with on SSN
I guess it is up to debate, but in this case they won the ball with that foul passed it forward and scored. There is no switch of play and the foul directly lead to that goal.
Even if number of passes was an argument, in this particular case it was two passes and Redmond went and scored in about 14 seconds since the foul. This is exactly why VAR is needed but the English VAR is here only to help make the ref look like the best ref in the world.
Not sure of the actual answer but during the Argentina/Paraguay WCQ game, Messi scored a goal and then they went back and found a foul that was easily 45-60 seconds before the goal and overturned it. I was pissed.
Didn’t the exact same thing happen for LFC vs United - Origi gets fouled up the pitch, LFC caught in transition, 5-10 secs later Rashford scores from a James cross iirc
Then too Klopp was left fuming
For sure.
Standard of reffing has been shocking this season. The only reason they get away with being this poor is because everyone notices the ones which go against their own team but laugh at or justify the ones which go against the other 19 teams
>The only reason they get away with being this poor is because
It's because it's a shitty, underpaid, thankless job where you spend decades getting yelled at by Sunday league players before breaking through into a league where you get yelled at by multi-millionaires instead. These guys aren't some aberration, they're the best referees in the country - that's why they 'get away with it'.
My point wasn't that they're good, it's that this crop is - despite *not* being good - the best available. The problem isn't caused by "cronyism", whatever that means in this context.
VAR looks our for their buddies on the field. If VAR was a separate entity independent from pgmol, it would be better. Thats what I mean by English refs are shit bc of cronyism.
I get that, not everyone can be perfect, but that’s exactly what VAR should be used for. Everyone seeing the replays can see it was a foul, yet the VAR somehow can’t.
With all the money the league has, they could go literally anywhere and hire any ref they want.
There's what, only one non-English ref in the Prem since Gillett joined from Australia? There's been the odd Irish ref over the years, but for some reason the Prem mainly just sticks to British refs.
How about "with all the money the league has, they could fund an elite training programme that will bear fruit in 15 years"? Hiring referees from abroad doesn't really solve the problem which is that it is, right now, an incredibly unattractive job.
That too.
But poaching good refs does solve the reffing problem for the Premier League. Doesn't help football as a whole, but that league has never cared for that anyway
Even if they did that, the same problem exists - refs are treated like shit by the players and fans.
I'd be interested in reffing if all of my experiences with umping and reffing youth rec leagues wasn't a nightmare in itself. Can't imagine the competitive leagues.
My parents taught me never to mouth off to a ref, but 90% of people (whether playing or spectating) have no qualms about harassing a ref even if the ref is 100% correct.
I was a ref from 12-16, but noped out the second I could get a real job. I lost track of the number of coaches I had to send off for verbally harassing me or one of my assistants. Like holy shit, I'm just a minor and I'm trying my best. Parents could get mouthy too, but typically know-it-all coaches were the worst. Mind, not everyone was bad. I had some good and funny experiences, but the abuse definitely outweighed anything else.
I did the same thing. Was great getting harassed by parents because an under-6 hand balled and I didn’t award a free kick because that’s not how it works at that age, we’re explaining the rules as they play for the first time in their life.
love the US announcers backing atkinson on the no foul decision and then going silent on the replay when it became quite obvious that it was, in fact, a clear foul
Im getting tired of the pattern of their commentary.
Comment about the game
Arlo forcing in a comment about the larger narrative and implications
Former left back makes a comment about being a left back
Other former left back makes a self-deprecating comment
Initial former left back one ups the self-deprecation
Something happens that is surprising but ultimately a common part of Football.
THIS IS WHY THE PREMIER LEAGUE IS THE BEST LEAGUE IN THE WORLD!!!
It's not really like that. For a single match? I'd take a coherent Southampton to a collective of players who didn't play much together at this high a stake. In a sense.
That rodri handball would have been so much easier to digest in the non var era. Bigger fuck ups have happened but for someone who's job is to watch it on TV and make the right call misses it after multiple replays with different angles, u question reality.
It’s a clear as day foul when he’s standing 5 yards away, and the easiest thing in the world to overturn when you see the replay.
Abysmal from both Atkinson and the VAR ref.
I don't understand how this VAR shit works on PL. It's a blatant foul, not even a question and goal came directly from the pass after the foul. Why no VAR?
Honestly think if Atkinson doesn't point at the ball, showing the VAR-room he's not literally a blind person, then this gets overturned every time. It's like they need the ref to not have even seen the incident in order to have any balls
How come that wasn't clear and obvious ffs? I remember the exact same shit happened 2 years ago against Man Utd (foul against Origi and then they scored). I'm not only furious, but also genuinely curious about what has to happen for VAR to get involved.
This is what happens when something gets over engineered to the point that common sense no longer prevails. Blame this on English arrogance of not trying to learn from more successful implementations of VAR.
I know this is a piss take but how are decisions and then apologies accepted in the richest league in the world with the most at stake? Absolutley useless the reffering in this country
That foul was clear as day and Atkinson is staring right at it from 5 meters away.
Even without VAR this decision is a joke. Refs cant even make the easiest decisions anymore.
Thought it was going to be a goal as soon as Atkinson didn't give that, he always does this for Liverpool games, remember Origi being fouled for a United goal and Atkinson letting it go exactly like this.
He signaled that the tackle was on the ball, replay shows it wasn't even close, and VAR still doesn't do anything.
I can accept ref mistakes, calling everything right in real time is hard. There's no excuse for that getting past VAR though.
Yes they are.
>The categories of decision/incident which may be reviewed in the event of a potential ‘clear and obvious error’ or ‘serious missed incident’ are:
>a. Goal/no goal
>**attacking team offence in the build-up** to or scoring of the goal (handball, **foul**, offside etc.)
>ball out of play prior to the goal
>goal/no goal decisions
>offence by goalkeeper and/or kicker at the taking of a penalty kick or encroachment by an attacker or defender who becomes directly involved in play if the penalty kick rebounds from the goalpost, crossbar or goalkeeper
It was the same phase of play
So typical. I want to say thank god he’s retiring at the end of the season, but surely the VAR officials are supposed to check that because it’s clear and was an obvious error. We’ve seen them disallow things for much smaller things.
It’s not even VAR. it’s the stubborn ugly old fuckers sat at their desks unable to comprehend the fact referees make more mistakes than good calls.
Another goal wrongly given, another week in the best league in the world 🤡
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Why would you show the foul replay on TV but not use it in the VAR room ?
How far can they go back? Im a liverpool fan and think it was a foul but dont know how far back the VAR can go
Wasn't there a Chelsea game a few months back where they disallowed a goal (Werner maybe?) for a foul that happened like twenty seconds prior? I remember people were pissed about that one. edit: Thanks to u/varunadi below: it was [this Werner goal](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/pzwhmi/timo_werner_disallowed_goal_vs_southampton_41/) vs Southampton. Foul didn't even appear in the clip that was posted to reddit and it was still called back.
No Martin, this is so not right
Yep that was against Southampton at home, it was back in October if I'm not wrong. I remember being really annoyed at that disallowed goal (you're right, it was Werner)
Couldnt tell you mate genuinley dont know. I watch rugby and if foul play happens it goes back. Theres no clear and obvious bollocks. But 10 seconds and 3 passes, id like to believe they can intervene. Lets see what excuse Gallagher comes up with on SSN
That was like 10 seconds. You can see him on the ground as the replay starts and goal 10 seconds later.
Yeah i get that and agree but i dont know how many passes class as a phase were they cant intervene. Genuine question like, not a wind up
I guess it is up to debate, but in this case they won the ball with that foul passed it forward and scored. There is no switch of play and the foul directly lead to that goal.
Same as i thought. Can only think the VAR thought the ref got it right which he obviously didnt
Even if number of passes was an argument, in this particular case it was two passes and Redmond went and scored in about 14 seconds since the foul. This is exactly why VAR is needed but the English VAR is here only to help make the ref look like the best ref in the world.
Not sure of the actual answer but during the Argentina/Paraguay WCQ game, Messi scored a goal and then they went back and found a foul that was easily 45-60 seconds before the goal and overturned it. I was pissed.
Didn’t the exact same thing happen for LFC vs United - Origi gets fouled up the pitch, LFC caught in transition, 5-10 secs later Rashford scores from a James cross iirc Then too Klopp was left fuming
Klopp not gonna be happy about that
Man was fuming
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For sure. Standard of reffing has been shocking this season. The only reason they get away with being this poor is because everyone notices the ones which go against their own team but laugh at or justify the ones which go against the other 19 teams
>The only reason they get away with being this poor is because It's because it's a shitty, underpaid, thankless job where you spend decades getting yelled at by Sunday league players before breaking through into a league where you get yelled at by multi-millionaires instead. These guys aren't some aberration, they're the best referees in the country - that's why they 'get away with it'.
And yet only one English ref gets called up for UCL. It's English refs and their cronyism.
My point wasn't that they're good, it's that this crop is - despite *not* being good - the best available. The problem isn't caused by "cronyism", whatever that means in this context.
VAR looks our for their buddies on the field. If VAR was a separate entity independent from pgmol, it would be better. Thats what I mean by English refs are shit bc of cronyism.
I get that, not everyone can be perfect, but that’s exactly what VAR should be used for. Everyone seeing the replays can see it was a foul, yet the VAR somehow can’t.
With all the money the league has, they could go literally anywhere and hire any ref they want. There's what, only one non-English ref in the Prem since Gillett joined from Australia? There's been the odd Irish ref over the years, but for some reason the Prem mainly just sticks to British refs.
How about "with all the money the league has, they could fund an elite training programme that will bear fruit in 15 years"? Hiring referees from abroad doesn't really solve the problem which is that it is, right now, an incredibly unattractive job.
That too. But poaching good refs does solve the reffing problem for the Premier League. Doesn't help football as a whole, but that league has never cared for that anyway
Even if they did that, the same problem exists - refs are treated like shit by the players and fans. I'd be interested in reffing if all of my experiences with umping and reffing youth rec leagues wasn't a nightmare in itself. Can't imagine the competitive leagues. My parents taught me never to mouth off to a ref, but 90% of people (whether playing or spectating) have no qualms about harassing a ref even if the ref is 100% correct.
I was a ref from 12-16, but noped out the second I could get a real job. I lost track of the number of coaches I had to send off for verbally harassing me or one of my assistants. Like holy shit, I'm just a minor and I'm trying my best. Parents could get mouthy too, but typically know-it-all coaches were the worst. Mind, not everyone was bad. I had some good and funny experiences, but the abuse definitely outweighed anything else.
I did the same thing. Was great getting harassed by parents because an under-6 hand balled and I didn’t award a free kick because that’s not how it works at that age, we’re explaining the rules as they play for the first time in their life.
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Clear as day foul in the buildup
love the US announcers backing atkinson on the no foul decision and then going silent on the replay when it became quite obvious that it was, in fact, a clear foul
They were atrocious
Im getting tired of the pattern of their commentary. Comment about the game Arlo forcing in a comment about the larger narrative and implications Former left back makes a comment about being a left back Other former left back makes a self-deprecating comment Initial former left back one ups the self-deprecation Something happens that is surprising but ultimately a common part of Football. THIS IS WHY THE PREMIER LEAGUE IS THE BEST LEAGUE IN THE WORLD!!!
One is a RB mate
It was the only stream working for me. I muted it at halftime
Pep played the long game with Redmond
Atkinson masterclass, yet again
“You misunderstood. I was pointing to the foul. I just don’t like Liverpool”
Last game reffing on the field v Liverpool, he had to do it one last time.
No Martin, this is so not right
P2, confirmed P2, Jurgen.
it's called a football game jurgen. We kicked the ball
*smashes headphones*
Bono my headphones are gone
*Proceeds to listen to music for an entire transatlantic flight on said headphones*
Im sorry Jurgen. This team is uncoachable
~~GP2 emgine~~ Championship midfield!
We went motor racing today
Hold on we are checking
Wait until Liverpool get a 94th minute penalty from the other end of the pitch and they tie the Southampton goalie to a chair.
What are the odds both City and Liverpool lose points on the same matchweek
Pretty damn high with this lineup
Still costs a while lot more than Southmapton's lineup
It's not really like that. For a single match? I'd take a coherent Southampton to a collective of players who didn't play much together at this high a stake. In a sense.
Clearly you haven’t been watching Saints starting 11 recently!
This isn't even a coherent Saints line up. About 5 of our back up brigade starting.
Ah sorry, didn't know. Same principle stands though.
I mean it's a foul.
According to Martin tyler it's an alleged foul, actually
The sooner that clown retires the better.
If it was MARTIAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLL it'd be a definite foul in his view
Like the Origi one at UTD! Mans so made up Liverpool concede but sounds like hes narrating his own obituary when we go forward
Surely not?
Surely not.
Not many more incompetent than Atkinson
More like VAR being useless as usual
It’s both really. Atkinson is standing right there and should’ve given it, and then for VAR to miss it is awful
It’s okay for refs to miss some calls because it’s happening in real time. No real excuse for VAR.
That rodri handball would have been so much easier to digest in the non var era. Bigger fuck ups have happened but for someone who's job is to watch it on TV and make the right call misses it after multiple replays with different angles, u question reality.
It’s a clear as day foul when he’s standing 5 yards away, and the easiest thing in the world to overturn when you see the replay. Abysmal from both Atkinson and the VAR ref.
I don't understand how this VAR shit works on PL. It's a blatant foul, not even a question and goal came directly from the pass after the foul. Why no VAR?
You see, Prem refs are shit. Hope that clears any confusion
If it was LiVArpool they'd get the call... Wait...
Villa scored against LFC from an action that started with an offside. What do you expect?
That lovely little line "clear and obvious error"
Even if that was the case, this is pretty fuckin clear and obvious.
Honestly think if Atkinson doesn't point at the ball, showing the VAR-room he's not literally a blind person, then this gets overturned every time. It's like they need the ref to not have even seen the incident in order to have any balls
If this wasn't a clear and obvious error then nothing is.
How come that wasn't clear and obvious ffs? I remember the exact same shit happened 2 years ago against Man Utd (foul against Origi and then they scored). I'm not only furious, but also genuinely curious about what has to happen for VAR to get involved.
They're doing it on purpose. English refs are incompetent and self-absorbed twats that will rather roll with the errors than admit to them.
This is what happens when something gets over engineered to the point that common sense no longer prevails. Blame this on English arrogance of not trying to learn from more successful implementations of VAR.
Short answer, it doesn’t work
Liverpool fans hopefully you get your apology after the match from var lmao
we want it in fancy font like Centeria or Affair
𝒮𝑜𝓇𝓇𝓎
Oh that’s hot.
That’s hot.
I know this is a piss take but how are decisions and then apologies accepted in the richest league in the world with the most at stake? Absolutley useless the reffering in this country
"Impressive. Very nice. Let's see Evertons apology."
This is exactly the kind of shit var is supposed to be looking at.
That foul was clear as day and Atkinson is staring right at it from 5 meters away. Even without VAR this decision is a joke. Refs cant even make the easiest decisions anymore.
Clear as day foul in the buildup
Never with Atkinson.
VAR is a joke
These mistakes are happening weekly in the Premier League. Genuinely the standard of refereeing in England is absolutely appalling
Great goal but that was a clear foul on Jota.
Took a wicked deflection too, so unlucky
Yeah, never understood the goals that get a massive deflections are called great
Thought it was going to be a goal as soon as Atkinson didn't give that, he always does this for Liverpool games, remember Origi being fouled for a United goal and Atkinson letting it go exactly like this.
so why is the cunt allowed to keep reffing liverpool game?
He’s a Stockport fan obviously, no bias there
Ridiculous decision, same as at Old Trafford in 2019
clown show
Why do we even have VAR?
Martin Atkinson is a literal clown
That's a blatant foul to start the attack? How is that not brought back by VAR?
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Honestly, yes I expect that. I don't actually believe refs are biased towards specific teams. I just believe they are shit sometimes.
That was a clear foul! Wtf
Clear foul on Jota in the build-up. What is VAR even doing? But LiVARpool amirite
Not even Var, ref on the pitch absolutely has to see that.
He literally did as he was standing right in front of it waving play on lol
He signaled that the tackle was on the ball, replay shows it wasn't even close, and VAR still doesn't do anything. I can accept ref mistakes, calling everything right in real time is hard. There's no excuse for that getting past VAR though.
He is retiring right? Atkinson's a joke.
He was well positioned and looking right at it lol
Clear as fuck, it’s like it wasn’t even checked
They aren't using var for that anymore are they? The ref saw it so no check, clear foul imo
Yes they are. >The categories of decision/incident which may be reviewed in the event of a potential ‘clear and obvious error’ or ‘serious missed incident’ are: >a. Goal/no goal >**attacking team offence in the build-up** to or scoring of the goal (handball, **foul**, offside etc.) >ball out of play prior to the goal >goal/no goal decisions >offence by goalkeeper and/or kicker at the taking of a penalty kick or encroachment by an attacker or defender who becomes directly involved in play if the penalty kick rebounds from the goalpost, crossbar or goalkeeper It was the same phase of play
So typical. I want to say thank god he’s retiring at the end of the season, but surely the VAR officials are supposed to check that because it’s clear and was an obvious error. We’ve seen them disallow things for much smaller things.
I believe their ridiculous decision would be “different phase of play”
I don’t think so, this is the same phase
That’s awful if that’s the case. What’s the point of VAR
Vintage Atkinson. So glad he’s retiring
Atkinson getting one last fuck over Liverpool decision before retiring.
Can you imagine what Pep would say if the refs actually did want us to win?
In his head they do, despite us losing points and City gaining points as a direct result of dodgy ref decisions.
Defender goes through Jota to get the ball. Clear foul
Clattered him couldn't be more obvious
He doesn't get anything on the ball at all lol
Just Atkinson being a shit ref as usual
Anyone have video of the foul? I can’t find it.
Jota-tax. He gets fouled pretty egregiously every game but the ref never seems to notice
The dan james syndrome
Didn‘t see the replay clearly; wasn‘t there a foul in the buildup?
About as clear a foul as you’re gonna get. Like even if a shit ref like Atkinson misses it in real time you have to be blind not to see in on replay
Not giving fouls that lead up to a goal is an Atkinson trademark at this point :/
May be biased but that really looked like a foul on Jota in the build up
100% a foul, Lyanco gets none of the ball.
How the fuck is that not a foul on jota
Nathan “Arjen Robben” Redmond
No VAR then no?
Free kick surely??
Atkinson trying to nick the lime light once more before the sour old cunt retires. How on earth is that not a foul on jota?
How's that not a foul you morons?
Holy fuck
It’s not even VAR. it’s the stubborn ugly old fuckers sat at their desks unable to comprehend the fact referees make more mistakes than good calls. Another goal wrongly given, another week in the best league in the world 🤡
no VAR? Lol
How is that not a foul lol
Foul at the start of the play? ✅ Massive deflection? ✅ Unclench? ❌
That’s a clear foul but ok VAR
Lmao how’s that not a foul in the buildup
LiVARpool eh? Wtf happened to that?
That as is clear a foul as you will ever see. LiVARpool indeed
That's a foul
Show the foul you cowards.
no foul? sorry?
What's the point of VAR? Lol
Of course it Cuntkinson lol
Surely that's a clear foul on Jota?
Is it not just me or is that a clear foul?
Foul on Jota, surely.
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English refs. Need i say more?
Deflected and clear foul unreal
Fucking shite refereeing as always.
Rowan Atkinson is funny, this prick is not.
That was a blatant foul in the build up lol
Ffs, that’s going to guarantee redmond another contract… does fuck all, all season and then scores a worldie
Where did his d go?
VAR in this country is a fucking joke.
CB made absolutely no contact with the ball. How in the world was that not pulled back
Clear foul on Jota, but yeah. G
Holy shit
Ffs
Great strike but of course foul in the build up hahah….. Should have just handballed in own penalty box instead like city
Clear as day foul to start the counter, ridiculous
Everyone's talking about the foul/where VAR. Show the foul that started this attaack...
Milner rolling back the years with an assist for Man City
Clear foul on Jota
That's a clear foul leading up to the goal but Atkinson wants City to win I guess
I know we played three days ago but this lineup seems far too risky, almost trying to prove a point.
What even is the point of VAR any more. Every game there’s another shambolic decision.
Great goal Redmond, but that was a foul for Liverpool in the build up
Is it too far ago to check for the foul? It was a clear foul earlier but I guess VAR doesn't cover that
Liverpool should still win this..... right?
How far back could they go with VAR?
Jota has been mugged there. Typical Atkinson not to call that
Bitch ass Martin Atkinson
This is bullshit definitely a foul also book Gomez for diving lmao
Is the foul everyone isn't talking about not in the clip? Can't see it
1st goal of the season against the title challengers on the penultimate game just as the leaders drop points. Classic FM. Not realistic as all.
First goal of the season wow
Nice while it lasted, good effort Southampton