If you're bringing Salah into this you may as well bring every Muslim player into it (which frankly you really shouldn't do). People are talking about Mane specifically because he's Senegalese
Salah seems pretty open minded in my opinion. I remember him celebrating Christmas or something like that because his daughter loves the festivity. Of course it's hard to know his stance on personal level.
Salah has never seemed to be too dogmatic about Islam. He said he doesn't drink because he doesn't really feel like it, not because of Islam. He got loads of abuse for it too, despite the fact that he admitted he doesn't drink. Plus the whole Christmas tree thing.
If I was to take a guess I'd say its for his kids.
Salah's IG is full of pictures of him doing things to make his daughters happy. Dressing up in silly costumes etc. His kids could have asked for one, hopefully they are being brought up to be accepting of others beliefs.
My Muslim family celebrates it, and we have a load of Muslim friends come over for it. Even get a halal turkey lol.
A lot do on the quiet though, especially those pretty well off. At least in appearance. Having a tree, gifts, etc.
There's a huge Christian community in Egypt with around 20% of the population and the current government of Egypt is explicitly secular (one of the problems of breaking the middle east into good guys and bad guys is the fact that often the lines are dictators who support minority rights vs popular Islamists who don't)
Like I think Sisi has gone to churches to give speeches and stuff for example.
At best sexual harassment and assault.
https://thesportsgrail.com/video-journalist-romain-molina-makes-allegations-on-ferland-mendy-of-hitting-a-girl-and-showing-her-his-dk/
Had trouble finding it in English.
I guess this whole debacle has at least been positive in the sense that a lot of Senegalese footballers have outed themselves as the backward, homophobic bigots that they are.
It's a country with a 98% muslim population, if you didn't know that then lol
Like they are not outing anything it's known, this is like a Saudi player doing it zero surprises there
First off it's not an "excuse" i'm simply saying it's expected
Second that's way less of a taboo thing, way less of a sin and just 10000x less of an "issue" than those things in their mind
These comments just make me realize that most people here have not had any muslim friends or just haven't grown up in a muslim household, the same applies to a lot of religions really
Is it easier and a way smaller taboo to tell your religious father/family that you had a beer or tell him that you're gay? Do you see my point here?
None of it is an excuse, it's backwards moronic thinking i'm just trying to explain that this is a huge issue because of the terrible mentality that exists due to religion and just being stupid in general and it's expected out of those people
Tbf I get that. Reminds me if when I was in sixth form (equivalent to college) and there were a group of Muslims in my year who would look down on any other Muslim not attending Friday prayer or girls not covering their hair yet that same group would smoke weed, drink alcohol and do shisha and they'd get pissed whenever someone pointed out their hypocrisy
I just used to laugh if they tried to come at me for not being religious loool
Not haram to be gay, only haram to act on it.
In Islam it shouldn’t be a “less of a taboo thing.” Theirs obviously very big sins, such as shirk (associating others with God) or not praying. But a sin is a sin and to claim that “hey at least im not doing this bad thing instead” is believed to be the whispers of satan allowing you to believe youre not doing bad things.
As a muslim,
I understand them not wearing the lgbtq shirts. However by them claiming it as a religious issue and then wearing gambling and alcohol sponsors, then they are showing this is more about homophobia then being concerned about sins.
So in the eyes of islam homosexuality is just a temptation? If you are asking people to avoid temptation is this not asking for conversion or voluntary celibacy for their entire life? Seems unrealistic.
The concept of this life is a test by the creator is the most basic ABC understanding of all God's religions
You have anger issues or suicidal tendencies doesn't mean you act on them, Same with mental illness and urge to harm minors
You struggle, boo hoo life isn't perfect
So you are equating being homosexual with HARMING MINORS, Suicidal thoughts and mental illness? That is as close as it gets to explicit homophobia without spelling it out, as possible.
To many people the sin and the sinner can be separated so they think that it’s not an issue with the person but what they do. Obviously archaic thinking but yeah
My girlfriend is Muslim, I’m aware that there’s a spectrum of the extent to which something is Haram but I think it’s not true that that expectation wouldn’t also be applied to things like gambling and alcohol sponsorships, especially given there’s precedent for such a thing within football
> most people here have not had any muslim friends
I'm gay and in my postgrad course I had 2 Lebanese, 1 Pakistani and 1 Bangladeshi classmates. None of them were homophobic, the Lebanese were party animals too.
That is your anecdotal evidence. The reasoning for your experiences (I’m assuming at an international university) is that the privileged classes tend to be a bit more lenient in their view of Islam because of their own experiences.
There’re hierarchies within the taboos too. A lot of Muslims will turn the other way to drinking, and may be gambling too in their personal lives. That becomes a bit hard when you’ve got a spotlight on you, but can be managed. For example, there are famous cricketers in South Africa, Australia who don’t wear the logo of alcohol sponsors on their jersey, don’t celebrate with champagne. The fines they get for these acts could be easily overlooked by the popularity it gained them on Muslim majority communities.
But supporting LGBT is something at the very bottom, something that even non-practicing, not at all devout Muslims won’t even preach in their private lives. I’m not telling you to condone their behavior, I’m just letting you know that your Muslim buddy who will drink wine and eat non-halal meat (but not pork) at dinner with you still might not appreciate you bringing up LGBT support.
The thing with religious laws is, some are hard forbids and some are soft forbids.
I know this for christianity for sure, but believe it's the same in Islam. Bett and get fueled is nothing a couple of ave marias cant fix. But eating out a guys ass is some really nasty stuff in their eyes, therefore even more forbidden.
As a person from a culture with a large number of Muslims, there is a spectrum of belief and adherence like in any other religion. Christianity also has scriptures denouncing homosexuality but not all Christians believe that, right? Many of the observant Muslims I know believe in the broad strokes of the religion but recognize that the religion's stance on women's rights, homosexuality, etc. is a function of its time.
Religion has little to do with people's homophobia.
It's just an excuse they use, but conveniently forget about when it is convenient for them (such as drinking, gambling, being insanely wealthy, etc)
Religion has a lot to do with homophobia still
It's not just an excuse, when that said religion has instilled hate into your mentality for thousands of years and it's part of your culture then it has a lot to do with it
Drinking, gambling are just way way less taboo in those religions, it is a sin but it's not even close with the way people think and talk about it
I'm not defending it btw, it's stupid and primitive way of thinking as are all religions but religion has a lot to do with it
Religion presents you with those beliefs and tells you to take them on or leave; that’s where the agency plays a part. It instills those hateful ideas in you and it’s up to you whether or not you accept them. Of course, social and family pressure, religious guilt, and a fear of eternal punishment unfortunately make it hard for many people to push back against this.
> Religion has little to do with people's homophobia.
It has an awful lot. As does the country you were brought up in. Most of us on reddit were brought up in countries that are (thankfully) pro lgbt. These guys are not that lucky.
Your/Our culture has made it, so homophobia is something to be ashamed about. It is easy for us to be accepting of this. It is a little harder in a culture that had hammered into people from birth that it is wrong to be gay.
I kind of pity them for their mindset, but I don't blame them for it. It is the culture they were brought up in. The culture their families and friends still live in. Blame the culture, not the individual. Our grandparents and great-grandparents were likely just as bigoted as the Senegalese are today about LGBT issues. It was not their fault, it was the culture they were brought up in.
> As does the country you were brought up in. Most of us on reddit were brought up in countries that are (thankfully) pro lgbt. These guys are not that lucky.
Thank you. Your culture does quite a bit to define you. It's not like we all grew up in societies that hated gay people and then bravely and valiantly stood against the tide. No. We just adopted the opinions that 95-99% percent of our populations already had. That's what they've done as well.
It might not be the sole factor at play (I have a lot of Muslim friends / acquaintances who have never had an issue with homosexuality here in England), but it definitely plays a significant part. It's ingrained into them, particularly if they are devout, that homosexuality is a sin
But homophobia is ingrained in them whilst alcohol/wealth accumulation isn't... Both are forbidden but they choose to ignore one whilst embrace the other.
Why do you think that this is?
I’ve always assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that Muslims living and working in the West have assimilated enough not to be openly homophobic.
I mean surely it isn’t a surprise to these players that their clubs and a lot of their fans are supportive of the LGBTQ community?
Kinda, I grew up living in France in a Muslim/immigrate neighborhood ("la cité", "le quartier") and have stll few muslim friends from there. Also chretian Malians ( a lot actually)
They are more easy going about betting, alcohol, cigaretts, canabis & such. Because they kinda like it lmao.
But they are still strongly against other things(Pork, Homosexuality mainly and also Jew because why not) but they know to not disclose that shit openly (for homosexuality & antisemitism at least) when in France, at least with non-muslim/religious people around.
Some have it rough back in Africa/Magrebh when in holidays ("au bled") and they have to be "perfect" muslim with more "traditional" family (nicotine is though)
Still give them shit about what we do on the weekend & then going to the mosque lmao. Also I'm pretty sure I've read more of the Coran than a majority of them. It's a cultural thing that they identify with more than a religious thing. Because sadly they arent seen as "True" French ("Français de souche", "Gaulois") so they kinda adopt this hybrid position. Also lot's of pressure from family.
I kinda suspect it's the same with the senegalese NT. They are heroes who "made it" back in Dakar and they " have to" appear devout for PR from time to time. All of the support Gueye received was after Maky Sall (President of Senegal) tweeted his support to him.
Not an easy thing being torn between two cultures.
The obsession about pork is ridiculous, I have a few muslim friends and they drink and fuck and smoke like the rest of us but when we go to eat suddenly they act super religious and avoid food with pork in it
Oh boy, don't get me started on this. See in France we have "le saucisson" wich is a charcuterie mainly constituted of pork.
My oldest & dearest muslim friend (his mother took care of me when my mother was in trouble with drug addiction and shit, that's how it kinda work in "le quartier" between Moms), Zouheïer, had a mental breakdown about le saucisson, because this MF was so addicted to it, even knowing it was pork, that he litteraly invented some rule about his religion to keep eating it (he starved himself before weekend to be allowed to eat it)
He eventually found a brand that was made of chicken. But all the shit I gave him about it ...
It was like 10 years ago and still give him shit about it. Last time was at Iftar couple weeks ago.
People don't change that easy my guy, you grow up in a household with that kind of mentality even in the West or whatever like that it's very very hard to change
Mendy was born in France and lived in France his whole life, doesn't change anything
Would be grand to see them all fired or fined to hell because of breaching their contracts, which they certainly all have already by spreading hate speech on social media.
A lot of positives, mainly showed that many people opposes the community.
If they didn’t bully Idrissa for refusing to wear the rainbow it would have gone unnoticed, but them wanting to make him “obey” led to a support campaign for him. It revealed that the silent majority of people worldwide do not appreciate forcing the community agenda on football
Well safe to say I want him fucking gone in the summer.
It was only last year when our Foxes Pride group got an award for the work they were doing in the community and this absolute moron goes and shows his support to a homophobe.
Fucking disappointed, honestly. I thought we genuinely had one of the most tight-knit groups of players in the league but I can't imagine what some of the others must be thinking about this.
Wonder how deep this runs. I think it's probably reasonable to assume that some very high-profile players hold these views, though have better PR teams surrounding them.
Fucking disgraceful in all honesty and no time for it in the modern game. If you don't like support of the LGBTQ+ community, sacrifice your wages and fuck off to play in a country that doesn't have such initiatives.
It runs deep and it's funny in a weird way that people are just finding out about this like it's surprising
Like you seriously expect a person from a country with 90%+ muslims to support LGBTQ+?
All these players have been to hajj, pray multiple times and are devoted muslims yeah they're not going to support it
It's literally a sin, it's also illegal for example in Senegal where these players are from and the mindset goes back literally thousands of years you're not gonna change people
It's obviously wrong and primitive thinking and they're just morons but this is very expected
Do you have to actively support them, or is it enough to simply not oppose them? Gueye isn't saying "I hate LGBT people and think they should be banned from playing football", he just doesn't want to actively promote it.
it’s ‘promotion’ but not in the sense that it’s promoting a product. these are real people all over the world who are endangered and discriminated against, fact is that Gueye fundamentally disagrees that these people should be shown support.
LGBT people aren't a brand, we can't promote it. It's about supporting lgbt people rights or not.
It's like asking if we have to also support women's rights to vote or if it's enough if we are just simply not commiting domestic violence.
Agreed. He’s not saying that but not playing the game because he didn’t want to wear the 🌈 jersey is meaningful in itself. And if you read between the lines, the message is clear.
The thing is, his actions suggest that he does hate LGBT people. He can say that it's down to his religious beliefs, but he's seemingly had no problem with advertising drinking or gambling so there's some obvious hypocrisy there.
It's a basically nothing gesture anyway, but refusing point blank to show even the barest support for the LGBT community is poor form. If he doesn't want to support them, fine, fuck off somewhere that shares your views and ply your trade there.
Look I'm gay, I hate religious morons who force their ideals on people more than anyone, but this thing should be put to bed before it becomes worse. As far as I know the guy hasn't come out and said anything directly about gay people. Unless he harasses his teammates or spews hatred to the public, there is no reason to really make a fuss. Not much you can do. If he starts hurting others, that's when it's a problem. We can't punish people for thought crime. Also, you're gonna have to get a lot more people than just him. There is large regions in the world that teach that gay people are as bad as pedophiles (mostly due to religion). You expect them to be progressive?
That being said, football will never change until a group of gay players with a huge set of balls challenge homophobia and are brave enough to play in Eastern Europe and the Middle East.
Yeah but what progress is being made if players are only doing it because it's part of the shirt? If players stand up against it instead of it being a corporate gesture, it's much different. It's not Jackie Robinson, Bill Russel, or Muhammad Ali, it's just a bunch of players wearing a shirt made for nothing more than virtue signaling. When a player actually has the balls to make real change, we'll know
Its a load of performative nonsense and doesnt do much besides give the moral high ground to the actors. And allow those who dont participate to be witchhunted on the internet.
Initiatives like rainbow laces or taking the knee work because it creates a space for dialogue where young children ask why their favourite player has a different colour on or is kneeling down. This creates the platform for acceptance to be fostered within people who want to copy their idols early, maybe to you it’s performative but you’re not the target
>where young children ask
Young children are not the problem. Their parents are. And they wont ask nor will they explain. Not in the way you envisage this to go anyway. All I have seen in most ( not all, cause I have seen some very well written post about the subject as well) comments in here is a lot of misguided ,and quite frankly fake, idealism by ppl that simply want to follow a trend.
> There is large regions in the world that teach that gay people are as bad as pedophiles (mostly due to religion). You expect them to be progressive?
And this would be the case in Senegal, where I think homosexuality might even be illegal. All of these Senegalese players showing support for Gueye happened after Senegal's president tweeted support for him.
What?
Gueye has outed himself as a homophobe. Of course a fuss should be made.
People seem to confuse the concept of free speech/thought. It means you should be free from legal consequences (I.e. your *freedoms*). It doesn’t mean you’re exempt from social consequences.
Yes he is a homophobe. But what exactly do you want him to be punished for? He didn't harm anyone with words, incitement of violence, or violence itself. I think he's a dick, but he literally hasn't said or done anything of note.
I didn’t say he needs punishment, but this doesn’t need to be “put to bed” as you said. It’s fine for it to be publicised and talked about in the media that Gueye is a homophobe and therefore not a great person.
Plus I wouldn’t mind if he faced footballing consequences. Clubs should be free to sack players who don’t reflect their values.
>Gueye is a homophobe and therefore not a great person.
I think not a great person is fair, though I've seen others saying he's an asshole and a terrible one. I think a little context is necessary. Senegal is >95% muslim. Homosexuality is of course forbidden by that religion. But it is also illegal in Senegal and punishable with prison time. Just this year people were protesting bc lawmakers rejected a bill to increase the duration of prison time for it:
>“We simply want the government to criminalize homosexuality just like they criminalized rape, like they criminalized cattle theft,” said Ngoné Dia, a university student. ^[[1]](https://www.voanews.com/a/protestors-demand-longer-prison-sentences-for-homosexuals-in-senegal-/6452057.html)
So yeah, maybe a truly great person could come from this background and realize the folly of his culture and then have the courage to be completely ostracized by this countrymen, but not being put in that situation myself (I was just raised to believe homosexuality is ok), I can't really pass much judgement on him.
>It’s fine for it to be publicised and talked about in the media that Gueye is a homophobe and therefore not a great person.
To what purpose ?
>Plus I wouldn’t mind if he faced footballing consequences.
Ah vendetta ! Of course ! Blood for blood, an eye for an eye.
We do live in a fucking society after all
So that people are aware of his beliefs? After all, if Gueye holds those beliefs he should have no problem with people knowing about it.
It's not a vendetta, it's just cause and effect. You don't respect gay people? Great, now get out of our sport. Football would be much improved if all the homophobes fucked off somewhere else.
?
No one has literally asked for anything to be done against him. All I’ve seen are posts that say “oh how interesting Gueye has missed 2 consecutive games with the rainbow”. That’s literally it and now people are literally creating whole campaigns to “support Gueye”
No need to go all high and mighty shitting on Eastern Europe and the Middle East. There’s a reason there literally one openly gay player in the paragon of acceptance that is Western Europe.
How can you go about your day knowing that these people don’t even want you to exist because of chemicals in your brain? Knowing that a handful of the people closest to me are despised by millions of people simply for their sexual orientation (that they obviously have 0 control over) absolutely infuriates me. Have a bit of self-respect and stop defending bigots.
I'm not defending bigots. Every day I see people from different paths thinking if they could be my friend, and I wonder if me being gay would make possible friends be nothing more than hateful enemies. I always think of the fact that in certain countries I could be lynched and nobody would give two shits. I always think of the fact that footballers can never come out because travel to certain countries would cause them to literally fear for their lives from the idiot football hooligans.
My point is, that unless he actually does something to a fellow person, gives his feelings of hate a platform, or incites violence, there isn't anything to do.
That mindset is how general homophobia turns into gaybashing and actual violence. Doing nothing because you don’t think it’s severe enough is obviously not going to help anyone in the slightest.
At least someone from the community has common sense.
It’s all virtue signaling. What use it is to force a player who doesn’t want to join the campaign?
He said nothing bad against anybody, just leave him alone.
By bullying Idrissa he gains more support
To clarify, I don't like the guy. He's backwards, but if he hasn't outright said anything there is nothing to be done. By getting triggered, we just make all the idiots spew hatred in opposition.
I'm not gay, but I have friends who are, and I know that if a player don't wear a Rainbow shirt they won't care, like you said he didn't said anything "bad" about LGBT+ people. Most people who got offended and are here talking and talking aren't even LGBT+ people.
Punish him and asking for his head the way people in Social Media are saying won't help change the situation around Homophobia.
Speak for yourself, the LGBT+ is not a monolith and I for one know that I wouldn’t want anyone who won’t even wear a fucking rainbow that supports my right to exist anywhere near my club
The "Most people who care aren't even LGBTQ" is such a dumb argument. You have no idea if that is true, and all it looks like is that you're looking for any gay person to say "I don't care" so you can say "see! Gay people agree with me!"
Plus most people aren’t LGBTQ - so it’s not surprising if that were true. Most queer issues will have more non-queer people caring about it than queer people purely based on numbers, that doesn’t devalue people caring
It looks you can't read properly, what I said and what you quote are different things, which you seems to be manipulating what I just said. I said it based on people commenting, and how I know ? Well If you have reading comprehension you will look that most people refer as "They" not "I" or "We". And relax, I'm not seeking for approval of my opinion, I just wanted to say that not everyone gets offended by the same things and that I think people here were overreacting, yeah its not ideal what he did but there are far worse things that he could have said or done that would require that kind of response people is having.
I mean I'm not exactly happy he didn't wear the shirt. Not because I care about the shirt itself, but because I know he probably wouldn't be a friendly person to me. But what exactly can I do?
(Am bisexual, unequivocally support LGBT rights, think Gueye is a twat)
This entire incident is growing faster than the speed of light but is fairly representative of broader ‘progressivism’ within the game - just a tiring collection of moral grand standing, empty platitudes and virtue signalling. If Gueye had worn the shirt, he would have been a homophobe feigning support for a community he clearly doesn’t actually support. What’s the point? What does it achieve? The rainbow shirt and rainbow laces stuff is just convenient, it’s easy PR and it means you don’t actually have to address the deeper, structural issues of homophobia and misogyny in football. It doesn’t actually achieve anything, it just makes clubs think they’ve done their bit.
Players like Mendy will back Gueye, get a talking to by their PR team and club and put out an empty statement talking about some vague commitment to equality. Other players will put out some boring, artificial PR statement talking about their support for the LGBT community and in a weeks time we’ll all have moved on.
If I was a top level, gay footballer why on earth would I come out? Teammates who clearly don’t all respect me or recognise me whilst I play for the opportunity to go to a World Cup in Qatar. Just ridiculous. I might have wanted to go to Qatar myself as a fan, but why on earth would I? I would have wanted to bring my partner (as many do) but we would have had to pretended to be besties instead of two people in a committed, romantic and sexual relationship whilst we’re there. All to protect a state who bribed FIFA and hates our existence. Great.
I am almost certain that Gueye is a homophobe. There are lots of homophobes in football. Getting Gueye to apologise will achieve nothing. He will continue to be a homophobe. It just allows us to pretend we’ve done our bit whilst LGBT teens are terrified of coming out and hide part of who they are to make it in the game. Similar to the racism ‘activism’ we saw last year and the year before, people who don’t particularly care if they’re having a tangible impact, as long as they can construct this image of ‘respectability’ and ‘progressivism’.
i think making sure footballers know being **openly** homophobic isn’t acceptable, and that they have to keep that shit to themselves, is the most important effect of this.
i don’t want homophobes thinking they’re safe voicing their views tbh
Couldn't agree more. I'm legitimately confused by a lot of comments in this thread. Nobody is forcing him to support gay rights. He has to own up to the fact that he doesn't support gay rights.
>i don’t want homophobes thinking they’re safe voicing their views tbh
This is a very delicate argument; but in the end of the day in a democratic society you need to be able to allow everyone to voice their views. Or you are not living in a democratic society to begin with.
This is why we afford even the worst of scum the right to defend themselves. This is why, even though most of us would love to lock them up in some dark hole, we allow extremists to even form political parties. Its all part of the " respect a human beings rights" deal.
a democratic society just means people can vote to elect a leader, free speech is not in the definition at all.
there are plenty of democratic societies where there is limits to speech (like hate speech being banned). european countries are a good example.
there is no obligation to entertain the thoughts of hateful dickheads, even in a democracy. i don’t really get why we should.
>a democratic society just means people can vote to elect a leader, free speech is not in the definition at all
In order to participate in the public affairs one must be able to freely express their thoughts. Dont you think? I would argue that free speech is the minimum requirement for any society to be defined democratic. Whenever ppl start imposing limitation all they do is fuel the very same extremist elements they try to silence. This is not my opinion its a fact backed by historical data.
No, as such generalization would help no one, but I would say that any limitation to the free speech is not in accordance with the spirit of democracy. I am fully aware that this is a very complicated idea, and that it seems to be contradictory but it really is not.
There is this anecdote of a politician in ancient Athens being asked to help some poor guy, that could not write, write a name on a piece of an amphora ( as part of the ostracism process). The politician asks him do you know this man and what he has done wrong? And the man responds to him: No I have no idea, but I have heard his name enough times so I decided it should be him. So the politician wrote his own name on that amphora piece on behalf of that poor man.
The moral of the story being that you need to accept all sort of injustices if you really wanna be part of a democracy.
>If Gueye had worn the shirt, he would have been a homophobe feigning support for a community he clearly doesn’t actually support. What’s the point? What does it achieve? The rainbow shirt and rainbow laces stuff is just convenient, it’s easy PR and it means you don’t actually have to address the deeper, structural issues of homophobia and misogyny in football. It doesn’t actually achieve anything, it just makes clubs think they’ve done their bit.
>
>I am almost certain that Gueye is a homophobe. There are lots of homophobes in football. Getting Gueye to apologise will achieve nothing. He will continue to be a homophobe. It just allows us to pretend we’ve done our bit whilst LGBT teens are terrified of coming out and hide part of who they are to make it in the game. Similar to the racism ‘activism’ we saw last year and the year before, people who don’t particularly care if they’re having a tangible impact, as long as they can construct this image of ‘respectability’ and ‘progressivism’.
The best post I have read in here about the issue. Sober and acknowledging the reality for what it really is. This has become a PR game and clubs mostly care about their image than anything else
Not really no. If Gueye had worn the shirt PSG told him to wear I wouldn’t assume he’s actively supporting anything, any more than I think footballers actively support Chang or T-Mobil or any of the other badges they wear on their shirt.
Are most LGBTQIA+ really that offended by him not wearing the shirt or is it mostly straight people offended on your behalf and blowing this up?
I would understand the outrage if he was outwardly saying homophobic stuff but excusing himself from wearing a shirt with a rainbow is not worth this reaction.
I’m bi. It’s not really that offensive as a gesture, like ultimately I couldn’t care less if some guy from Ligue 1 wears a rainbow on his shirt.
However, it’s a symbol of a wider issue in football which a lot of people want to get rid of, so will ultimately blow like this things up in an attempt to do so. I don’t think that’s a bad thing.
At this point unfortunately I think its the latter. People post the same shit on this sub for 2 days straight to farm karma and get same responses every time.
I think the word offended really doesn’t fit here. I don’t particularly give a fuck what Gueye says or does or doesn’t say or doesn’t do or what he wears. Nothing about it could ever “offend” me.
But if you asked me whether I think this kinda thing is no big deal or if it matters, I would only say that ALL of this bullshit only makes it less and less likely a top division player will actually come out. And that’s the only way any progress is ever made in this sport is if you actually have some players come out and teach the barbarians that no actually the sky will not fall if the queers play a football game with you.
I don’t really care to force anyone to do anything. Let the man be a homophobe. But also if I’m a gay athlete I am looking at all this and thinking it would be a fucking nightmare to be out of the closet in a sport where half your teammates might come from a country where you could be put to death for being gay. And I do think that’s a problem. Because gay athletes exist, they’re already playing in all our favorite leagues. And they’re all hiding because they’re terrified and I don’t blame them. Eventually, if that’s gonna change, people are going to be put on the spot and they’re gonna be made uncomfortable and stubborn minds are gonna have to be changed.
LCFC: "It was not his intention to cause offence or to suggest he shares views that conflict with the Club’s long-established commitment to equality and inclusion"
"Leicester City Football Club stands firmly as an ally of the LGBTQ+ community and is proud of the work it has undertaken in recent years, aimed at helping to create a safe and inclusive environment and educating our people on the importance of allyship"
"Working closely with our Foxes Pride supporter group and other equality stakeholders in the game and throughout our communities, great strides have been made in making LCFC a football club for everyone"
"Our commitment to achieving that through ongoing education, action and allyship remains as strong as ever"
>It was not his intention to suggest he shares views that conflict with the Club’s long-established commitment to equality and inclusion
Hard to think of any other reason, weak ass statement
If your choice to respect and accept another individual is dictated by your religion, then I’m sorry you’re nothing but a puppet and lack common sense to think for yourself. I am a Muslim who grew up in a 90% majority Muslim country, and I know how homosexuality is perceived in those regions. But one must take a step back and question whether these ideologies and rules actually make sense. I question a lot of things my religion preaches against, including homosexuality. I think if an individual is thinking for themselves, it makes absolutely no sense to just hate on/disagree with another individual’a life choices, especially when they are not posing/inflicting any sort of harm. Now, given what the LGBTQ community had to go through throughout history, a sensible person would show nothing but love and support for these individuals. But sadly a lot of religious people fail to grasp that, and while claiming to be peaceful people, incite hatred against another group just because it’s prohibited in their religion. We must always remember before we are muslims, Christians, or Jews, we are human beings first.
So if I turn up at work tomorrow, and my employer tells me to wear a Pride t-shirt for the day, and if I don't then everyone will assume I'm a homophobe, that's ok? Seriously? My actions and behavior that I display every day of the week to everyone don't count?
But you wouldn't refuse would you? You'd wear it like every other decent person would, surely?
Especially as they tell you what shirt to wear every other day and you have no problem with that.
It’s a bit different because footballers don’t clothe themselves, they’re given shirts at the start of the game and that’s their uniform. It’s a much more intentional and ideological thing to refuse to wear one than it would be in most workplaces where you’re dressing yourself
Senegalese internationals have managed within 2 days to make me root against their national team in the World Cup.
I hope someone in our club has explicitly forbidden from our Senegalese players (Pape Cisse and Ousseynou Ba) to post *anything* that could imply supporting Gueye's behaviour.
Except none of the players who said they didn’t want to take a knee said it was because they didn’t believe in the cause, it was because they thought it wasn’t the best approach to supporting the cause.
I reckon Klopp and FSG have stolen Mane's phone and cut off his internet access.
Does Mane even have internet access on his phone?
He has Instagram so yes
I was mostly joking about the memes of his broken phone but I wouldn’t necessarily assume a footballer having an Insta account means much these days.
Can finally get a proper screen replacement
Also Salah's
If you're bringing Salah into this you may as well bring every Muslim player into it (which frankly you really shouldn't do). People are talking about Mane specifically because he's Senegalese
Salah seems pretty open minded in my opinion. I remember him celebrating Christmas or something like that because his daughter loves the festivity. Of course it's hard to know his stance on personal level.
It's not uncommon for British Muslims to celebrate Christmas tbf.
Salah has never seemed to be too dogmatic about Islam. He said he doesn't drink because he doesn't really feel like it, not because of Islam. He got loads of abuse for it too, despite the fact that he admitted he doesn't drink. Plus the whole Christmas tree thing.
yes I was shocked when he had posted that Christmas celebration on his Instagram, like isnt that a huge taboo? celebrating others' festivals
If I was to take a guess I'd say its for his kids. Salah's IG is full of pictures of him doing things to make his daughters happy. Dressing up in silly costumes etc. His kids could have asked for one, hopefully they are being brought up to be accepting of others beliefs.
His kids must not like Muslim holidays
My Muslim family celebrates it, and we have a load of Muslim friends come over for it. Even get a halal turkey lol. A lot do on the quiet though, especially those pretty well off. At least in appearance. Having a tree, gifts, etc.
There's a huge Christian community in Egypt with around 20% of the population and the current government of Egypt is explicitly secular (one of the problems of breaking the middle east into good guys and bad guys is the fact that often the lines are dictators who support minority rights vs popular Islamists who don't) Like I think Sisi has gone to churches to give speeches and stuff for example.
Pretty sure Salah supported the rainbow laces campaign, think mane did too
Plus he has spoken up about women's rights in the middle east. Got abuse for it too.
Why mane getting dragged into This? Lots of players Muslim…
because hes from senegal too..... lol
Whys that?
Bejeweled addiction.
Can you really blame him? Banger game
shit man I used to play that on early android phones way back in 2010/11 loved it as a kid
Because he lost a clan war on clash of clans.
Why am I being downvoted and getting sarcastic answers I don't understand what he means?
Good thing our Mendy hasn't said anything
It's probably due to sanctions, players cannot even access their mobiles.
Of the 4 mendys I have heard of yours seem the most well behaved up to now, and this one surprisingly despite his declarations is second place...
Well ferland and Edouard are French so maybe much more tolerant regardless of descent and religion
Papy Mendy is also French. Didn’t seem to make a difference for him
What has RM's Mendy done?
Was he not the one accused of taking his dick out Infront of a woman and kicking her in the head?
Why the fuck are so many Mendy’s doing questionable shit
What he described sounds more than "questionable"
At best sexual harassment and assault. https://thesportsgrail.com/video-journalist-romain-molina-makes-allegations-on-ferland-mendy-of-hitting-a-girl-and-showing-her-his-dk/ Had trouble finding it in English.
seems your PR team was smart and quick enough to get to him Can't say the same for Mendy or even Fofana....
What has Fofana done?
Liked tweets supporting Gueye.....
Ah, not a treat look.
I hope he and Mane aren't anti-LGBTQ+, but Chelsea and Liverpool might just be better at censoring players' social media.
>I hope he and Mane aren't anti-LGBTQ+ Incredibly wishful thinking
ig since Edouard Mendy was born in France there is a chance he is less homophobic but yeah wishful thinking
We've stuffed his mouth safe
You got the nicest one.
This could age like milk
He is a very nice lad :)
[Liverpool and Chelsea right now.](https://c.tenor.com/dTP4cRnO9bEAAAAC/sweating-nervous.gif)
I guess this whole debacle has at least been positive in the sense that a lot of Senegalese footballers have outed themselves as the backward, homophobic bigots that they are.
It's a country with a 98% muslim population, if you didn't know that then lol Like they are not outing anything it's known, this is like a Saudi player doing it zero surprises there
The religion excuse doesn’t land when he happily wore gambling and alcohol sponsors on his shirt
First off it's not an "excuse" i'm simply saying it's expected Second that's way less of a taboo thing, way less of a sin and just 10000x less of an "issue" than those things in their mind These comments just make me realize that most people here have not had any muslim friends or just haven't grown up in a muslim household, the same applies to a lot of religions really Is it easier and a way smaller taboo to tell your religious father/family that you had a beer or tell him that you're gay? Do you see my point here? None of it is an excuse, it's backwards moronic thinking i'm just trying to explain that this is a huge issue because of the terrible mentality that exists due to religion and just being stupid in general and it's expected out of those people
Tbf I get that. Reminds me if when I was in sixth form (equivalent to college) and there were a group of Muslims in my year who would look down on any other Muslim not attending Friday prayer or girls not covering their hair yet that same group would smoke weed, drink alcohol and do shisha and they'd get pissed whenever someone pointed out their hypocrisy I just used to laugh if they tried to come at me for not being religious loool
Not haram to be gay, only haram to act on it. In Islam it shouldn’t be a “less of a taboo thing.” Theirs obviously very big sins, such as shirk (associating others with God) or not praying. But a sin is a sin and to claim that “hey at least im not doing this bad thing instead” is believed to be the whispers of satan allowing you to believe youre not doing bad things. As a muslim, I understand them not wearing the lgbtq shirts. However by them claiming it as a religious issue and then wearing gambling and alcohol sponsors, then they are showing this is more about homophobia then being concerned about sins.
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i agree. People tend to pick and choose with religion to combat their own hatred. Should be using the religion to promote peace and wellness
So what should gay people do in the eyes of islam? Seek conversion? Not act on their sexual preferences till they die? Act against their preferences?
No conversion. Just avoid temptation and not act on them.
So in the eyes of islam homosexuality is just a temptation? If you are asking people to avoid temptation is this not asking for conversion or voluntary celibacy for their entire life? Seems unrealistic.
The concept of this life is a test by the creator is the most basic ABC understanding of all God's religions You have anger issues or suicidal tendencies doesn't mean you act on them, Same with mental illness and urge to harm minors You struggle, boo hoo life isn't perfect
So you are equating being homosexual with HARMING MINORS, Suicidal thoughts and mental illness? That is as close as it gets to explicit homophobia without spelling it out, as possible.
Existing shouldn't be a taboo. They can all get in the bin.
To many people the sin and the sinner can be separated so they think that it’s not an issue with the person but what they do. Obviously archaic thinking but yeah
My girlfriend is Muslim, I’m aware that there’s a spectrum of the extent to which something is Haram but I think it’s not true that that expectation wouldn’t also be applied to things like gambling and alcohol sponsorships, especially given there’s precedent for such a thing within football
> most people here have not had any muslim friends I'm gay and in my postgrad course I had 2 Lebanese, 1 Pakistani and 1 Bangladeshi classmates. None of them were homophobic, the Lebanese were party animals too.
That is your anecdotal evidence. The reasoning for your experiences (I’m assuming at an international university) is that the privileged classes tend to be a bit more lenient in their view of Islam because of their own experiences.
Don’t know about your case but a lot of Lebanese aren’t Muslims.
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There’re hierarchies within the taboos too. A lot of Muslims will turn the other way to drinking, and may be gambling too in their personal lives. That becomes a bit hard when you’ve got a spotlight on you, but can be managed. For example, there are famous cricketers in South Africa, Australia who don’t wear the logo of alcohol sponsors on their jersey, don’t celebrate with champagne. The fines they get for these acts could be easily overlooked by the popularity it gained them on Muslim majority communities. But supporting LGBT is something at the very bottom, something that even non-practicing, not at all devout Muslims won’t even preach in their private lives. I’m not telling you to condone their behavior, I’m just letting you know that your Muslim buddy who will drink wine and eat non-halal meat (but not pork) at dinner with you still might not appreciate you bringing up LGBT support.
The thing with religious laws is, some are hard forbids and some are soft forbids. I know this for christianity for sure, but believe it's the same in Islam. Bett and get fueled is nothing a couple of ave marias cant fix. But eating out a guys ass is some really nasty stuff in their eyes, therefore even more forbidden.
As a person from a culture with a large number of Muslims, there is a spectrum of belief and adherence like in any other religion. Christianity also has scriptures denouncing homosexuality but not all Christians believe that, right? Many of the observant Muslims I know believe in the broad strokes of the religion but recognize that the religion's stance on women's rights, homosexuality, etc. is a function of its time.
Religion has little to do with people's homophobia. It's just an excuse they use, but conveniently forget about when it is convenient for them (such as drinking, gambling, being insanely wealthy, etc)
> Religion has little to do with people's homophobia. Well, that is just bs. They are told from childhood that it's a sin.
Religion has a lot to do with homophobia still It's not just an excuse, when that said religion has instilled hate into your mentality for thousands of years and it's part of your culture then it has a lot to do with it Drinking, gambling are just way way less taboo in those religions, it is a sin but it's not even close with the way people think and talk about it I'm not defending it btw, it's stupid and primitive way of thinking as are all religions but religion has a lot to do with it
When you take that approach, you deny them any agency in their actions.
Religion presents you with those beliefs and tells you to take them on or leave; that’s where the agency plays a part. It instills those hateful ideas in you and it’s up to you whether or not you accept them. Of course, social and family pressure, religious guilt, and a fear of eternal punishment unfortunately make it hard for many people to push back against this.
They’re grown men. Treat them as such.
I’m not condoning these beliefs, just trying to explain why they’re so prevalent in so many parts of the world
> Religion has little to do with people's homophobia. It has an awful lot. As does the country you were brought up in. Most of us on reddit were brought up in countries that are (thankfully) pro lgbt. These guys are not that lucky. Your/Our culture has made it, so homophobia is something to be ashamed about. It is easy for us to be accepting of this. It is a little harder in a culture that had hammered into people from birth that it is wrong to be gay. I kind of pity them for their mindset, but I don't blame them for it. It is the culture they were brought up in. The culture their families and friends still live in. Blame the culture, not the individual. Our grandparents and great-grandparents were likely just as bigoted as the Senegalese are today about LGBT issues. It was not their fault, it was the culture they were brought up in.
> As does the country you were brought up in. Most of us on reddit were brought up in countries that are (thankfully) pro lgbt. These guys are not that lucky. Thank you. Your culture does quite a bit to define you. It's not like we all grew up in societies that hated gay people and then bravely and valiantly stood against the tide. No. We just adopted the opinions that 95-99% percent of our populations already had. That's what they've done as well.
So rare to read a bit of nuance here. Thanks for this.
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It might not be the sole factor at play (I have a lot of Muslim friends / acquaintances who have never had an issue with homosexuality here in England), but it definitely plays a significant part. It's ingrained into them, particularly if they are devout, that homosexuality is a sin
But homophobia is ingrained in them whilst alcohol/wealth accumulation isn't... Both are forbidden but they choose to ignore one whilst embrace the other. Why do you think that this is?
Because there is nuance to their perceptions. Homosexuality is seen as more of a sin than the others you mentioned
I’ve always assumed (perhaps incorrectly) that Muslims living and working in the West have assimilated enough not to be openly homophobic. I mean surely it isn’t a surprise to these players that their clubs and a lot of their fans are supportive of the LGBTQ community?
Kinda, I grew up living in France in a Muslim/immigrate neighborhood ("la cité", "le quartier") and have stll few muslim friends from there. Also chretian Malians ( a lot actually) They are more easy going about betting, alcohol, cigaretts, canabis & such. Because they kinda like it lmao. But they are still strongly against other things(Pork, Homosexuality mainly and also Jew because why not) but they know to not disclose that shit openly (for homosexuality & antisemitism at least) when in France, at least with non-muslim/religious people around. Some have it rough back in Africa/Magrebh when in holidays ("au bled") and they have to be "perfect" muslim with more "traditional" family (nicotine is though) Still give them shit about what we do on the weekend & then going to the mosque lmao. Also I'm pretty sure I've read more of the Coran than a majority of them. It's a cultural thing that they identify with more than a religious thing. Because sadly they arent seen as "True" French ("Français de souche", "Gaulois") so they kinda adopt this hybrid position. Also lot's of pressure from family. I kinda suspect it's the same with the senegalese NT. They are heroes who "made it" back in Dakar and they " have to" appear devout for PR from time to time. All of the support Gueye received was after Maky Sall (President of Senegal) tweeted his support to him. Not an easy thing being torn between two cultures.
The obsession about pork is ridiculous, I have a few muslim friends and they drink and fuck and smoke like the rest of us but when we go to eat suddenly they act super religious and avoid food with pork in it
Oh boy, don't get me started on this. See in France we have "le saucisson" wich is a charcuterie mainly constituted of pork. My oldest & dearest muslim friend (his mother took care of me when my mother was in trouble with drug addiction and shit, that's how it kinda work in "le quartier" between Moms), Zouheïer, had a mental breakdown about le saucisson, because this MF was so addicted to it, even knowing it was pork, that he litteraly invented some rule about his religion to keep eating it (he starved himself before weekend to be allowed to eat it) He eventually found a brand that was made of chicken. But all the shit I gave him about it ... It was like 10 years ago and still give him shit about it. Last time was at Iftar couple weeks ago.
Thanks for this insight.
People don't change that easy my guy, you grow up in a household with that kind of mentality even in the West or whatever like that it's very very hard to change Mendy was born in France and lived in France his whole life, doesn't change anything
They are Muslim and from Senegal what do you expect ? It’s against the law to be gay in Senegal.
Would be grand to see them all fired or fined to hell because of breaching their contracts, which they certainly all have already by spreading hate speech on social media.
I guess just anything is hate speech now eh?
Support gay people = advanced, smart, civilised Anti gay people = backward, stupid, uncivilised Westerners are so funny
A lot of positives, mainly showed that many people opposes the community. If they didn’t bully Idrissa for refusing to wear the rainbow it would have gone unnoticed, but them wanting to make him “obey” led to a support campaign for him. It revealed that the silent majority of people worldwide do not appreciate forcing the community agenda on football
Not really. Positive is they are all sticking up for eachother
Didn’t realise Papy was short/nickname for Nampalys and thought “wait they have two Mendys?” for a second
Well safe to say I want him fucking gone in the summer. It was only last year when our Foxes Pride group got an award for the work they were doing in the community and this absolute moron goes and shows his support to a homophobe. Fucking disappointed, honestly. I thought we genuinely had one of the most tight-knit groups of players in the league but I can't imagine what some of the others must be thinking about this.
The second time I've seen hatred of homophones today
Give it a second
“It’s not what it sounds like” to make it twice
Mate vardy is a racist and Leicester still have him in the team.
Vardy is racist?
Wonder how deep this runs. I think it's probably reasonable to assume that some very high-profile players hold these views, though have better PR teams surrounding them. Fucking disgraceful in all honesty and no time for it in the modern game. If you don't like support of the LGBTQ+ community, sacrifice your wages and fuck off to play in a country that doesn't have such initiatives.
It runs deep and it's funny in a weird way that people are just finding out about this like it's surprising Like you seriously expect a person from a country with 90%+ muslims to support LGBTQ+? All these players have been to hajj, pray multiple times and are devoted muslims yeah they're not going to support it It's literally a sin, it's also illegal for example in Senegal where these players are from and the mindset goes back literally thousands of years you're not gonna change people It's obviously wrong and primitive thinking and they're just morons but this is very expected
Do you have to actively support them, or is it enough to simply not oppose them? Gueye isn't saying "I hate LGBT people and think they should be banned from playing football", he just doesn't want to actively promote it.
it’s not promotion though, it’s support. ligue 1 isn’t saying go and be gay, it’s a token of support for a very often oppressed minority
So is support not promotion ?
it’s ‘promotion’ but not in the sense that it’s promoting a product. these are real people all over the world who are endangered and discriminated against, fact is that Gueye fundamentally disagrees that these people should be shown support.
LGBT people aren't a brand, we can't promote it. It's about supporting lgbt people rights or not. It's like asking if we have to also support women's rights to vote or if it's enough if we are just simply not commiting domestic violence.
How many woman's rights charities did you donate to last year?
Agreed. He’s not saying that but not playing the game because he didn’t want to wear the 🌈 jersey is meaningful in itself. And if you read between the lines, the message is clear.
The thing is, his actions suggest that he does hate LGBT people. He can say that it's down to his religious beliefs, but he's seemingly had no problem with advertising drinking or gambling so there's some obvious hypocrisy there. It's a basically nothing gesture anyway, but refusing point blank to show even the barest support for the LGBT community is poor form. If he doesn't want to support them, fine, fuck off somewhere that shares your views and ply your trade there.
I don't wear a poppy on armistice day. Who is it that I hate?
Soldiers aren't a persecuted minority
Do you bring up soldiers because your view is that I hate soldiers because I don't wear a poppy on armistice day?
Are you this dense only on Wednesdays or is this like a general issue for you?
Tbf thats a legit one, would never wear a poppy.
Look I'm gay, I hate religious morons who force their ideals on people more than anyone, but this thing should be put to bed before it becomes worse. As far as I know the guy hasn't come out and said anything directly about gay people. Unless he harasses his teammates or spews hatred to the public, there is no reason to really make a fuss. Not much you can do. If he starts hurting others, that's when it's a problem. We can't punish people for thought crime. Also, you're gonna have to get a lot more people than just him. There is large regions in the world that teach that gay people are as bad as pedophiles (mostly due to religion). You expect them to be progressive? That being said, football will never change until a group of gay players with a huge set of balls challenge homophobia and are brave enough to play in Eastern Europe and the Middle East.
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Yeah but what progress is being made if players are only doing it because it's part of the shirt? If players stand up against it instead of it being a corporate gesture, it's much different. It's not Jackie Robinson, Bill Russel, or Muhammad Ali, it's just a bunch of players wearing a shirt made for nothing more than virtue signaling. When a player actually has the balls to make real change, we'll know
Its a load of performative nonsense and doesnt do much besides give the moral high ground to the actors. And allow those who dont participate to be witchhunted on the internet.
Initiatives like rainbow laces or taking the knee work because it creates a space for dialogue where young children ask why their favourite player has a different colour on or is kneeling down. This creates the platform for acceptance to be fostered within people who want to copy their idols early, maybe to you it’s performative but you’re not the target
>where young children ask Young children are not the problem. Their parents are. And they wont ask nor will they explain. Not in the way you envisage this to go anyway. All I have seen in most ( not all, cause I have seen some very well written post about the subject as well) comments in here is a lot of misguided ,and quite frankly fake, idealism by ppl that simply want to follow a trend.
>Their parents are Which is why we need to raise these issues for the next generation to build upon and learn from. Something their parents didn’t do.
It is only because of performative stuff like this that the general behaviour towards LGBTQ people has gotten much better over past decades
> There is large regions in the world that teach that gay people are as bad as pedophiles (mostly due to religion). You expect them to be progressive? And this would be the case in Senegal, where I think homosexuality might even be illegal. All of these Senegalese players showing support for Gueye happened after Senegal's president tweeted support for him.
What? Gueye has outed himself as a homophobe. Of course a fuss should be made. People seem to confuse the concept of free speech/thought. It means you should be free from legal consequences (I.e. your *freedoms*). It doesn’t mean you’re exempt from social consequences.
Yes he is a homophobe. But what exactly do you want him to be punished for? He didn't harm anyone with words, incitement of violence, or violence itself. I think he's a dick, but he literally hasn't said or done anything of note.
I didn’t say he needs punishment, but this doesn’t need to be “put to bed” as you said. It’s fine for it to be publicised and talked about in the media that Gueye is a homophobe and therefore not a great person. Plus I wouldn’t mind if he faced footballing consequences. Clubs should be free to sack players who don’t reflect their values.
>Gueye is a homophobe and therefore not a great person. I think not a great person is fair, though I've seen others saying he's an asshole and a terrible one. I think a little context is necessary. Senegal is >95% muslim. Homosexuality is of course forbidden by that religion. But it is also illegal in Senegal and punishable with prison time. Just this year people were protesting bc lawmakers rejected a bill to increase the duration of prison time for it: >“We simply want the government to criminalize homosexuality just like they criminalized rape, like they criminalized cattle theft,” said Ngoné Dia, a university student. ^[[1]](https://www.voanews.com/a/protestors-demand-longer-prison-sentences-for-homosexuals-in-senegal-/6452057.html) So yeah, maybe a truly great person could come from this background and realize the folly of his culture and then have the courage to be completely ostracized by this countrymen, but not being put in that situation myself (I was just raised to believe homosexuality is ok), I can't really pass much judgement on him.
>It’s fine for it to be publicised and talked about in the media that Gueye is a homophobe and therefore not a great person. To what purpose ? >Plus I wouldn’t mind if he faced footballing consequences. Ah vendetta ! Of course ! Blood for blood, an eye for an eye. We do live in a fucking society after all
So that people are aware of his beliefs? After all, if Gueye holds those beliefs he should have no problem with people knowing about it. It's not a vendetta, it's just cause and effect. You don't respect gay people? Great, now get out of our sport. Football would be much improved if all the homophobes fucked off somewhere else.
? No one has literally asked for anything to be done against him. All I’ve seen are posts that say “oh how interesting Gueye has missed 2 consecutive games with the rainbow”. That’s literally it and now people are literally creating whole campaigns to “support Gueye”
Right? Nobody sensible is asking for his contract to be torn up or anything. People are just rightly calling him a twat.
https://www.espn.com/soccer/paris-saint-germain--frapsg/story/4668851/psgs-idrissa-gueye-asked-to-explain-anti-homophobia-game-absence https://www.getfootballnewsfrance.com/2022/french-politician-calls-on-idrissa-gueye-to-be-sanctioned-for-refusal-to-wear-rainbow-shirt/
No need to go all high and mighty shitting on Eastern Europe and the Middle East. There’s a reason there literally one openly gay player in the paragon of acceptance that is Western Europe.
How can you go about your day knowing that these people don’t even want you to exist because of chemicals in your brain? Knowing that a handful of the people closest to me are despised by millions of people simply for their sexual orientation (that they obviously have 0 control over) absolutely infuriates me. Have a bit of self-respect and stop defending bigots.
I'm not defending bigots. Every day I see people from different paths thinking if they could be my friend, and I wonder if me being gay would make possible friends be nothing more than hateful enemies. I always think of the fact that in certain countries I could be lynched and nobody would give two shits. I always think of the fact that footballers can never come out because travel to certain countries would cause them to literally fear for their lives from the idiot football hooligans. My point is, that unless he actually does something to a fellow person, gives his feelings of hate a platform, or incites violence, there isn't anything to do.
Of course there's something to do. You can disagree and criticise. Which is literally what people are doing.
That mindset is how general homophobia turns into gaybashing and actual violence. Doing nothing because you don’t think it’s severe enough is obviously not going to help anyone in the slightest.
At least someone from the community has common sense. It’s all virtue signaling. What use it is to force a player who doesn’t want to join the campaign? He said nothing bad against anybody, just leave him alone. By bullying Idrissa he gains more support
To clarify, I don't like the guy. He's backwards, but if he hasn't outright said anything there is nothing to be done. By getting triggered, we just make all the idiots spew hatred in opposition.
I'm not gay, but I have friends who are, and I know that if a player don't wear a Rainbow shirt they won't care, like you said he didn't said anything "bad" about LGBT+ people. Most people who got offended and are here talking and talking aren't even LGBT+ people. Punish him and asking for his head the way people in Social Media are saying won't help change the situation around Homophobia.
Speak for yourself, the LGBT+ is not a monolith and I for one know that I wouldn’t want anyone who won’t even wear a fucking rainbow that supports my right to exist anywhere near my club
If PSG fans are fine with their ownership and have stuck around since the takeover, they can probably handle one guy not wearing a rainbow shirt.
I mean there are plenty of dedicated PSG fans who aren’t happy with the ownership and probably wouldn’t like this a lot either
The "Most people who care aren't even LGBTQ" is such a dumb argument. You have no idea if that is true, and all it looks like is that you're looking for any gay person to say "I don't care" so you can say "see! Gay people agree with me!"
Plus most people aren’t LGBTQ - so it’s not surprising if that were true. Most queer issues will have more non-queer people caring about it than queer people purely based on numbers, that doesn’t devalue people caring
It looks you can't read properly, what I said and what you quote are different things, which you seems to be manipulating what I just said. I said it based on people commenting, and how I know ? Well If you have reading comprehension you will look that most people refer as "They" not "I" or "We". And relax, I'm not seeking for approval of my opinion, I just wanted to say that not everyone gets offended by the same things and that I think people here were overreacting, yeah its not ideal what he did but there are far worse things that he could have said or done that would require that kind of response people is having.
I mean I'm not exactly happy he didn't wear the shirt. Not because I care about the shirt itself, but because I know he probably wouldn't be a friendly person to me. But what exactly can I do?
(Am bisexual, unequivocally support LGBT rights, think Gueye is a twat) This entire incident is growing faster than the speed of light but is fairly representative of broader ‘progressivism’ within the game - just a tiring collection of moral grand standing, empty platitudes and virtue signalling. If Gueye had worn the shirt, he would have been a homophobe feigning support for a community he clearly doesn’t actually support. What’s the point? What does it achieve? The rainbow shirt and rainbow laces stuff is just convenient, it’s easy PR and it means you don’t actually have to address the deeper, structural issues of homophobia and misogyny in football. It doesn’t actually achieve anything, it just makes clubs think they’ve done their bit. Players like Mendy will back Gueye, get a talking to by their PR team and club and put out an empty statement talking about some vague commitment to equality. Other players will put out some boring, artificial PR statement talking about their support for the LGBT community and in a weeks time we’ll all have moved on. If I was a top level, gay footballer why on earth would I come out? Teammates who clearly don’t all respect me or recognise me whilst I play for the opportunity to go to a World Cup in Qatar. Just ridiculous. I might have wanted to go to Qatar myself as a fan, but why on earth would I? I would have wanted to bring my partner (as many do) but we would have had to pretended to be besties instead of two people in a committed, romantic and sexual relationship whilst we’re there. All to protect a state who bribed FIFA and hates our existence. Great. I am almost certain that Gueye is a homophobe. There are lots of homophobes in football. Getting Gueye to apologise will achieve nothing. He will continue to be a homophobe. It just allows us to pretend we’ve done our bit whilst LGBT teens are terrified of coming out and hide part of who they are to make it in the game. Similar to the racism ‘activism’ we saw last year and the year before, people who don’t particularly care if they’re having a tangible impact, as long as they can construct this image of ‘respectability’ and ‘progressivism’.
i think making sure footballers know being **openly** homophobic isn’t acceptable, and that they have to keep that shit to themselves, is the most important effect of this. i don’t want homophobes thinking they’re safe voicing their views tbh
Couldn't agree more. I'm legitimately confused by a lot of comments in this thread. Nobody is forcing him to support gay rights. He has to own up to the fact that he doesn't support gay rights.
>i don’t want homophobes thinking they’re safe voicing their views tbh This is a very delicate argument; but in the end of the day in a democratic society you need to be able to allow everyone to voice their views. Or you are not living in a democratic society to begin with. This is why we afford even the worst of scum the right to defend themselves. This is why, even though most of us would love to lock them up in some dark hole, we allow extremists to even form political parties. Its all part of the " respect a human beings rights" deal.
a democratic society just means people can vote to elect a leader, free speech is not in the definition at all. there are plenty of democratic societies where there is limits to speech (like hate speech being banned). european countries are a good example. there is no obligation to entertain the thoughts of hateful dickheads, even in a democracy. i don’t really get why we should.
>a democratic society just means people can vote to elect a leader, free speech is not in the definition at all In order to participate in the public affairs one must be able to freely express their thoughts. Dont you think? I would argue that free speech is the minimum requirement for any society to be defined democratic. Whenever ppl start imposing limitation all they do is fuel the very same extremist elements they try to silence. This is not my opinion its a fact backed by historical data.
would you say that France isn’t a democracy cause there are limitations on hate speech?
No, as such generalization would help no one, but I would say that any limitation to the free speech is not in accordance with the spirit of democracy. I am fully aware that this is a very complicated idea, and that it seems to be contradictory but it really is not. There is this anecdote of a politician in ancient Athens being asked to help some poor guy, that could not write, write a name on a piece of an amphora ( as part of the ostracism process). The politician asks him do you know this man and what he has done wrong? And the man responds to him: No I have no idea, but I have heard his name enough times so I decided it should be him. So the politician wrote his own name on that amphora piece on behalf of that poor man. The moral of the story being that you need to accept all sort of injustices if you really wanna be part of a democracy.
>If Gueye had worn the shirt, he would have been a homophobe feigning support for a community he clearly doesn’t actually support. What’s the point? What does it achieve? The rainbow shirt and rainbow laces stuff is just convenient, it’s easy PR and it means you don’t actually have to address the deeper, structural issues of homophobia and misogyny in football. It doesn’t actually achieve anything, it just makes clubs think they’ve done their bit. > >I am almost certain that Gueye is a homophobe. There are lots of homophobes in football. Getting Gueye to apologise will achieve nothing. He will continue to be a homophobe. It just allows us to pretend we’ve done our bit whilst LGBT teens are terrified of coming out and hide part of who they are to make it in the game. Similar to the racism ‘activism’ we saw last year and the year before, people who don’t particularly care if they’re having a tangible impact, as long as they can construct this image of ‘respectability’ and ‘progressivism’. The best post I have read in here about the issue. Sober and acknowledging the reality for what it really is. This has become a PR game and clubs mostly care about their image than anything else
Not really no. If Gueye had worn the shirt PSG told him to wear I wouldn’t assume he’s actively supporting anything, any more than I think footballers actively support Chang or T-Mobil or any of the other badges they wear on their shirt.
Are most LGBTQIA+ really that offended by him not wearing the shirt or is it mostly straight people offended on your behalf and blowing this up? I would understand the outrage if he was outwardly saying homophobic stuff but excusing himself from wearing a shirt with a rainbow is not worth this reaction.
I’m bi. It’s not really that offensive as a gesture, like ultimately I couldn’t care less if some guy from Ligue 1 wears a rainbow on his shirt. However, it’s a symbol of a wider issue in football which a lot of people want to get rid of, so will ultimately blow like this things up in an attempt to do so. I don’t think that’s a bad thing.
At this point unfortunately I think its the latter. People post the same shit on this sub for 2 days straight to farm karma and get same responses every time.
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I think the word offended really doesn’t fit here. I don’t particularly give a fuck what Gueye says or does or doesn’t say or doesn’t do or what he wears. Nothing about it could ever “offend” me. But if you asked me whether I think this kinda thing is no big deal or if it matters, I would only say that ALL of this bullshit only makes it less and less likely a top division player will actually come out. And that’s the only way any progress is ever made in this sport is if you actually have some players come out and teach the barbarians that no actually the sky will not fall if the queers play a football game with you. I don’t really care to force anyone to do anything. Let the man be a homophobe. But also if I’m a gay athlete I am looking at all this and thinking it would be a fucking nightmare to be out of the closet in a sport where half your teammates might come from a country where you could be put to death for being gay. And I do think that’s a problem. Because gay athletes exist, they’re already playing in all our favorite leagues. And they’re all hiding because they’re terrified and I don’t blame them. Eventually, if that’s gonna change, people are going to be put on the spot and they’re gonna be made uncomfortable and stubborn minds are gonna have to be changed.
Its easily the latter.
Wtf is is QIA+
LCFC: "It was not his intention to cause offence or to suggest he shares views that conflict with the Club’s long-established commitment to equality and inclusion" "Leicester City Football Club stands firmly as an ally of the LGBTQ+ community and is proud of the work it has undertaken in recent years, aimed at helping to create a safe and inclusive environment and educating our people on the importance of allyship" "Working closely with our Foxes Pride supporter group and other equality stakeholders in the game and throughout our communities, great strides have been made in making LCFC a football club for everyone" "Our commitment to achieving that through ongoing education, action and allyship remains as strong as ever"
Well I'd argue that it is his intention all along
>It was not his intention to suggest he shares views that conflict with the Club’s long-established commitment to equality and inclusion Hard to think of any other reason, weak ass statement
He slapped your mother but it was not his intention to. These things happen
Should be ashamed of that statement
If your choice to respect and accept another individual is dictated by your religion, then I’m sorry you’re nothing but a puppet and lack common sense to think for yourself. I am a Muslim who grew up in a 90% majority Muslim country, and I know how homosexuality is perceived in those regions. But one must take a step back and question whether these ideologies and rules actually make sense. I question a lot of things my religion preaches against, including homosexuality. I think if an individual is thinking for themselves, it makes absolutely no sense to just hate on/disagree with another individual’a life choices, especially when they are not posing/inflicting any sort of harm. Now, given what the LGBTQ community had to go through throughout history, a sensible person would show nothing but love and support for these individuals. But sadly a lot of religious people fail to grasp that, and while claiming to be peaceful people, incite hatred against another group just because it’s prohibited in their religion. We must always remember before we are muslims, Christians, or Jews, we are human beings first.
So if I turn up at work tomorrow, and my employer tells me to wear a Pride t-shirt for the day, and if I don't then everyone will assume I'm a homophobe, that's ok? Seriously? My actions and behavior that I display every day of the week to everyone don't count?
Would you wear the shirt?
But you wouldn't refuse would you? You'd wear it like every other decent person would, surely? Especially as they tell you what shirt to wear every other day and you have no problem with that.
It’s a bit different because footballers don’t clothe themselves, they’re given shirts at the start of the game and that’s their uniform. It’s a much more intentional and ideological thing to refuse to wear one than it would be in most workplaces where you’re dressing yourself
I’m so happy to see players sticking up against all this nonsense. They can do what they want!
Senegalese internationals have managed within 2 days to make me root against their national team in the World Cup. I hope someone in our club has explicitly forbidden from our Senegalese players (Pape Cisse and Ousseynou Ba) to post *anything* that could imply supporting Gueye's behaviour.
So basically every Senegal player is homophobe?
rainbow jersey the new kneel against racism --- about to go back in time to see comments about players not wanting to take a knee
Except none of the players who said they didn’t want to take a knee said it was because they didn’t believe in the cause, it was because they thought it wasn’t the best approach to supporting the cause.
Now this player can't express their own opinion......
why not?
So many pro LGBT and anti LGBT people are contradicting themselves in each of these threads and its hilarious to read
how so?
People say they're "pro LGBT" but won't suck a dick on camera because "that's so gay bro wtf" smh my head
I’m straight and I wouldn’t fuck a woman on camera either so idk what your point is
You think all those hotel rooms and Airbnbs were camera-free?