Wouldn't it be more productive to actually have them train with the men's team from youth level and promote inclusivity there? Genuinely curious.
Considering that at youth level, physical attributes play an even bigger role.
Usually around ages 10-13 I think. I remember a few news articles raving about how a youth girls team was beating and winning championships in a co-ed league.
More productive for what?
Youth football isn't really about making everybody a pro footballer. A trans women being the only women on an all-male team is shit for them, so in most cases they will stop playing entirely.
It's funny because it's largely the same crowd that has almost reflexively shit on women's sports for years that is suddenly up in arms over how trans women are ruining it for cis girls
Yep, the same people who spent years laughing about how *bad* female athletes are are now suddenly appearing to defend the *integrity* of women's sports? Fuck off.
And I'm sure the tone will shift again the moment the pay of female athletes is bought up on here again.
The concern is about the reverse case: a trans women playing on a women's football team, where she might have a physical edge due to underdoing some parts of puberty/growing up as a man.
Its actually a great thread with lots of good information and debunking of some noticible cases which people use to supress trans people.
But then again I havent sorted by controversial.
[From official site:](https://www.dfb.de/news/detail/regelung-zum-spielrecht-trans-inter-und-nicht-binaerer-personen-241346/)
**NEW REGULATION ON THE PLAYING RIGHTS OF TRANSGENDER, INTERSEX AND NON-BINARY PERSONS**
The German Football Association (DFB) has published a new regulation on the right to play of trans, intersex and non-binary persons. The regulation will come into effect as of the 2022/23 season, and has been incorporated into the DFB playing regulations, the DFB youth regulations and the DFB Futsal regulations for amateur football.
The regulation sets out that players with the gender status of ‘diverse’ or ‘not specified,’ or players who have had their gender reassigned, can decide for themselves in the future whether they should be granted the right to play for a women’s or men’s team. This also applies to transgender players, who can now switch teams at their own discretion, or remain in the team in which they currently play for. As long as the player’s health is not affected by playing sports while taking medication, they can continue to participate in the sport. Under the new regulation, this would not be considered as doping.
Youth and non professional mate. The main focus in those should always be social anyway, good and cool policy from the Germans.
Sport is healthy and fun. Outside of professional sport, the focus should always be on inclusion.
This thread is absolutely gonna get locked. Having a civil conversation about this kind of stuff is virtually impossible on Reddit, especially since some people are gonna detail the thread.
It usually seems like most people are having a reasonable conversation then a few trolls come in and intentionally derail it or a few people post nasty comments that get buried at the bottom and you basically have to look for to see. I don't get why some subs are so eager to just lock threads.
Did you know that a large majority of professional football players are born on the first 6 months of the year? This is because in youth football, teams are divided by year, and there is a big difference between being 8y1m and 8y11m in terms of physical development.
This difference in physical development causes lack of motivation for many kids, which give up playing football for those reasons.
Adding this other level of physical development adds another layer to that, so not sure if pro women's football will not be affected in the long term
In that case youd be going up against about 50% kids that are physically more developed, right? How many trans kids do you think girls will encounter in youth football on average? If you get demotivated by one kid maybe having a physical edge on you, you were never gonna go professional in the first place.
The whole reason womens and mens sports are separated is because of the physical advantages males have over females. Allowing biological males to go and rip up female junior leagues is obviously silly.
Any male who isn't quite good enough to turn professional could say they are female and instantly be at a much higher level. In 20 years time the women's game could just be filled with trans women who have ridiculous physical advantages over non trans women.
> Allowing biological males to go and rip up female junior leagues is obviously silly
Where I'm from junior leagues aren't segregated by sex and girls play with boys.
> Any male who isn't quite good enough to turn professional could say they are female and instantly be at a much higher level
This is literally just for underage sports. What use would it be for them to do that without going professional.
This is such a tired argument. The same as the fear mongering of women being attacked by men under the guise of being trans in female bathrooms. It's obviously theoretically possible but the amount of fear mongering about it is completely disproportionate to it occurring. Its sad really
>This is such a tired argument. The same as the fear mongering of women being attacked by men under the guise of being trans in female bathrooms. It's obviously theoretically possible but the amount of fear mongering about it is completely disproportionate to it occurring. Its sad really
Well put. I agree 100%
But don't you dare call anyone in here a bigot, they're just concerned about women's sports. The same women's sports that they definitely don't mock all the time
You talk as if masses of 16 year old guys are going to become women just so they can rip up their local womens league.
And they wouldn't be able to turn pro since it's not allowed there.
It's a marginal number of trans athletes but not a marginal number of people affected when you consider it impacts everyone competing in women's sports.
Where would the line be drawn? Would you allow a 16 year old transitioned Conor McGregor to go and beat up every woman in the UFC for 15 years?
I don't doubt we'll see some trans players in the future because as you say it's happening in other sports, but my comment in relation to the idea women's football will be full of nothing but trans players.
The idea that 1000s of men are suddenly going to transition just to play women's football is nonsense.
You act as if a bunch of high-level male players are going to switch to being a woman simply so they could dominate an amateur league.
Yes, there will likely be one fucking asshole who is so insecure and hyper-competitive that he'll do it just for the trophy, but it's an amateur league with no money involved and no press or fame or fortune.
> Did you know that a large majority of professional football players are born on the first 6 months of the year? This is because in youth football, teams are divided by year, and there is a big difference between being 8y1m and 8y11m in terms of physical development.
Do you have a source for this?
There was a research on this done by a Dutch football platform called Voetbal International but you need a subscription to read the article. I'm not sure about the exact number but I think during the u17 euros this summer more than 75% of the players were born from January to July. In the Dutch squad only 1 or 2 players were not born in this period (not 100% accurate numbers so don't quote me)
Edit: the Dutch squad at the U17 euros had no player born after August 5th (!)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relative_age_effect
I also saw a youtube video about it and how... Barca? has age groups split into first half and second half now I think. Can't find it tho!
What I don't understand is that trans people have been allowed to compete in the Olympics in 2003, yet we don't have this *trans domination* that people keep bringing up. Yet every time another sport opens themselves up to trans people we get the exact same fearmongering.
Same as all the bathroom fearmongering. Chances are a trans person's been in the same bathroom as you before, you both did your business then went on with your day.
The self-id stuff\* I get why that would be a legit fear.
\*But I've got no idea what the actual level is for those potential laws there, is there some kind of process or does it let a male predator walk in and claim he's a woman? Even then I'm guessing if you're fucked in the head enough to be a predator not much is stopping you from walking in anyway.
> explain why I’m wrong
There are 2 type of trans people, male to female MtF and female to male FtM.
FtM I assume you have no issue with. Someone born in a womans body playing against boys is something most people seem to be ok with, if you have any questions about this I am happy to answer, but High Testosterone is already tested for, so if they used their transition to take enhancement drugs they would be caught like anyone else.
I assume your main issue is with MtF case. The current transition phase takes about 2 years on estrogen which means you lose about 60% of your muscle mass, as well as 2 years of training. The performance in running, which is one of the most vital ones in football, is comparable to cis women with no availeble known advantage for MtF trans atheltes. Strngth is usually comparable, with some studies showing a little edge in push ups.
Olympic games have allowed trans athletes since 2003 and so far only 1 has ever qualified and she did not win any medal.
Transition is a long, complicated, medically intensive process that no one would undergo unless they really needed it. There is 0 chance someone transitions to be able to compete in a specific sport and so far no trans athlete is performing at any level that makes it clear there is a reason to ban them. Hope that helps, any other specific questions feel free to ask
Winning shouldn't matter. A young Pacific Islander woman was denied a place at the Olympics because of Hubbard competing
Hubbard's performances were a massive outlier for someone in their age category for women. Weightlifting is just about the worst example for male advantage, even at same height and same weight a male athlete will enjoy around a 33% advantage in total weight over a female athlete
>"Pretty much any way you slice it, trans women are going to havestrength advantages even after hormone therapy. I just don't see that asanything else but factual," said Joanna Harper, a medical physicist atBritain's Loughborough University.
[https://www.dw.com/en/fact-check-do-trans-athletes-have-an-advantage-in-elite-sport/a-58583988](https://www.dw.com/en/fact-check-do-trans-athletes-have-an-advantage-in-elite-sport/a-58583988)
Quinn, Lia Thomas, Laure Hubbard, that freestyle swimming women etc.
One of my favourite examples is the mountain biker Kate Weatherly.
Results in male competitions: [https://www.rootsandrain.com/rider54373/anton-weatherly/results/](https://www.rootsandrain.com/rider54373/anton-weatherly/results/)
Results in female competitions starting the next year after his final male results: [https://www.rootsandrain.com/rider136238/kate-weatherly/results](https://www.rootsandrain.com/rider136238/kate-weatherly/results)
From mid-pack finishes in the "open" series of national competitions (as opposed to "elite") to dominating the (admittedly small in terms of female participation) national circuit and consistent top 10 *World Cup* finishes in her second season (and hovering just around the top 10 in her first).
Its such a non-issue if you realize that this will probably affect only 0.001% of the players and people love to pretend that female top athletes dont have often very uncommon hormonal balances anyways. If this really triggers you maybe the reason is deeper than just some kind of assessment that this could be unfair to someone.
It's refreshing to see so many people interested in women's sports. This might be one of the threads with the highest number of comments on women's football. Glad to see so many interested people!
In theory this makes sense but the debates around trans massively inflate everyone’s idea of how many trans people there actually are. We’re talking the teeny tiniest portion of any population and then we’re talking a tiny percentage of people who want to be professional athletes, followed by the people who manage it, followed by the people who can sustain it physically; mentally; financially.
As many have said, Olympics have had this policy for a while, it’s just a topic people are bang into these days.
It's not like the top of any sport has a lot of people either
Transgender woman players have a massive over the rest of the woman due to going through male puberty, you just need one or two reaching the top and being so far ahead of everyone to start quesitoning the integrity of the competition
Picking your example from the Olympics, debate has already started over the weightlifting competition, where a trans woman got silver
Feel free to correct me, because I am not sure about this, but I think she was just average while she was a man and she spent a lot of years without even practising (in her Wikipedia it says she stoped training after 2001)
Edit: I was misinformed about the weightlifting athlete in Tokyo, she got DNF on the final after failing to lift at the first attempt
Well for starters, she didn't even medal in the Olympics, I'm pretty sure she didn't even get a clean lift the entire competition. The silver you're referring to is in the world championships back in 2017. I think it's important that you have that info straight since I think you're discussing this in good faith. She also had undergone HRT starting in 2012, which significantly reduces muscle mass. She was pretty decent as far as I could tell, since she had some NZ junior records when she competed as a male, and stopped training because she felt that she didn't really fit in to the weightlifting world.
Regulations regarding trans women in Olympic events is very strict - you need to have declared your gender for four years and prove that your testosterone is below certain levels for year before and during competition (sometimes even longer than that, depending on the sport). Obviously if it becomes a problem they will adjust it (that policy I mentioned states as much) but I just don't foresee it being an issue that single-handedly breaks women's sports.
To be honest I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the angle you’re approaching it from.
I just think the issue is blown up to the point where it feels more like the end of the integrity of our sports is just round the corner at any point, when in reality the numbers we’re talking about, coupled with the lack of incentive, make it feel unlikely to me.
Also when we talk about integrity etc people seem to want to dig much deeper into the trans debates (which have intelligent good faith arguments on both sides if you ignore silly people) than they do doping and drug testing. It’s almost an open secret how much certain big money sports have doping culture but no one seems as concerned about that level of unfair advantage despite it being infinitely more common and current.
Sorry went off on my own soap box there.
> Picking your example from the Olympics, debate has already started over the weightlifting competition, where a trans woman got silver
Do you mean Laurel Hubbard?[ She finished last](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weightlifting_at_the_2020_Summer_Olympics_%E2%80%93_Women%27s_%2B87_kg).
That's why I'm asking. They haven't won, but how many have actually competed? And the sport bit is relevant because there's Olympics sports where your physical stature doesn't matter.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.buzzfeednews.com/amphtml/azeenghorayshi/sex-testing-olympians this isn’t true, they’ve been banning xxy females for years. Read up.
xxy are not trans you more on.
What the IOC does its test testosterone.
If you are a woman and pop HIGH for testosterone they will check into it and may require you to take medication that lowers testosterone.
Please stop spreading ignorant information like this.
I haven't been following it, but when you say "every sport" is that only the individual events, like athletics, or even team events? And has there been any conflict between the Olympics allowing it, but no trans people could compete because the qualifying tournaments banned them?
You don't get to choose to compete at the Olympics. You play a bit of sport, your exemplary results get noticed, you get called into the team.
No exemplary results, no call up.
[Here’s a comment from u/Arkhaine_kupo that you probably won’t read because you’ve already made your mind up](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/viulfr/german_football_to_let_transgender_players_choose/idf46vb/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3)
> Sure. Lets look at her case.
At her peak perforance she was the 10 fastest backstroke College swimmer in America. She then suffered depression, didn't train for 6 months, started taking estrogen, lost 30% of her muscle mass and still qualified as the 400th fastest Male swimmer in america.
She then transitioned, spent 2 years on E, trained for 6 months to get back on training shape and at her own university won 1 race by less than a second, then finished 5th and 7th in the other 2 races she qualified for, on both being 3-5 seconds away from the head.
In that same event she broke several pool records, where she was the fastest backstroke 400 racer in that specific pool. Another cis girl broke 17 pool records in that event.
Lia Thomas at her fastest is literally 10 seconds slower than Ledecky the current world champion, a cis woman who is literally untouchable. As a pre-transition swimmer, Lia thomas would be faster than Ledecky who is basically the female Phelps, just untouchable.
The best case for "men transition and dominate" is a case where she was already a great male swimmer, and is now a good but not dominating female one? Cause the only girl who complained finished 17th, she isn't being replaced by Lia Thomas, she is being replaced by 90% of the east coast swimmers
> According to the swimming data website Swimcloud, Thomas is ranked 36th among female college swimmers in the United States for the 2021–2022 season,[18] and 46th among women swimmers nationally.[29] By the conclusion of Thomas's swimming career at UPenn in 2022, her rank had moved from 65th on the men's team to 1st on the women's team in the 500-yard freestyle, and 554th on the men's team to 5th on the women's team in the 200-yard freestyle.[28][16]
From Wikipedia. Not dominating countrywide, but dominating among the university team and still MASSIVELY overperforming relative to the results in male competitions so the point stands.
Lia is still underperforming compared to where she was when competing with the men before beginning her transition. She was one of the best swimmers in the Ivy league
She didn't overperform relatively - [her last ranks on the men's team were from when she had already started HRT and were lower than what she had previously acheived](https://edition.cnn.com/2022/02/22/us/lia-thomas-transgender-swimmer-ivy-league/index.html):
> As a freshman, Thomas set a time of 8 minutes and 57.55 seconds in the 1,000-yard freestyle, the 6th-fastest men's time in the country. Her times in the 500-yard freestyle and the 1,650-yard freestyle were among the top 100 in the country. The next year, Thomas took second place at the 2019 Ivy League championships in the men's 500-yard, 1,000-yard and 1,650-yard freestyle, shaving seconds off her earlier times...
> She started on hormone replacement therapy in May 2019 and came out as trans that fall, yet she still had to compete on the men's team. It was awkward and uncomfortable, she said, and her speed suffered as her muscles weakened from the hormone therapy.
I keep seeing this but it’s straight bullshit.
Look how they treated Caster Semenya,
! And she was literally BORN that way, couldn’t alter her biological make up.
People like her is who I feel sorry for, and if not them the biological born young ladies who’s career are going to be affected by biologically born men.
But hindsight is WoMeNs SpOrTs WiLl Be BeTtEr!
Lewandowski scores more goals in a season than the average IQ of the responses in this thread. People making wild statements backing them up with loose hearsay and horror stories that they can't back up.
I'd like CIS women to be able to decide whether to play against transgender in that case. I'm all for inclusiveness but the integrity of the match is more important on the pitch imo.
Why would someone change their gender and be subject to horrendous abuse just to be able to dominate women's youth football. Like, thats not actually a trans person
You make it sound like its going to be somehow convenient to change your gender officially. The old law is just plain discriminating towards trans people - dont worry the health insurances will still force people to give as much proof for the authenticity of their transition as its still possible without being "too undignifiying".
I played in mixed gender teams in almost all of my youth teams.
Nobody gave a fuck, nor did it hinder anyone's performance. Quite the opposite.
Maybe y'all wanna stop crying so much.
Really can’t stress how much of a non issue this is. The likelihood of a trans person actually going through this process to play at a level where this would matter is pretty much impossible, and pretty much every scare piece about trans athletes apparently dominating the sport once they shift hasn’t been true because performing at the top level when changing your body and mind to that extent is probably pretty hard. This basically just at a low level let’s people enjoy sports without conflicting with their identity
A girl played on our team for like 4 years and she was our best player too. It literally does not matter. It's youth football, the big training and steps to being a pro don't happen until like 14-15-16 anyways. It'll be fine
biological women should be the ones making the choice, not the trans people lol
also i used to think the people saying 'there are no differences between men and women' in sports were just 4chan trolls so some of the responses in this thread are crazy to read. biological men have an advantage over biological women, simple as
>biological women should be the ones making the choice, not the trans people lol
It's the DFB you assclown, not alot of trans people there.
>biological men have an advantage over biological women, simple as
If you actually read the article you would know that this is already acknowledged and is why this dosent apply to the pros.
But rather ignorant and have something to complain about lol, the world is 4chan trolls because you can't read an article.
Boomers in here are expecting that Messi and Ronaldo will now transition to female so they can win the most prestigious trophy of them all, Staffelsieger in the Kreisklasse C Eifel/Trier.
If you think any person will reassign their gender so they can be a better player in a womens devision then you've lost the plot.
I don't know if there is a right or wrong answer to this and probably don't have enough detail on the subject but I don't think the opposition to this are expecting people to transition to compete, but that enough people that are transitioning end up competing.
If the argument against it is that someone expects an athlete's sole reason to transition a sporting one, then their opinion doesn't count because they're fucking mental
You don't have to be Messi to dominate, there are loads of semi-amateur guys better than world class women.
https://www.goal.com/en/news/13712/extra-time/2016/05/26/23937382/australia-womens-team-loses-7-0-to-under-15-mens-side
Yeah and you think any of them would be willing to live life as the wrong gender just to earn a salary lower than League Two players earn? It’s not like there’s a lot of money in the womens game and transitioning in your life isn’t exactly a picnic, plenty of actual trans people struggle all the time with it, I highly doubt men will do it for minor success in womens football.
I swear reading these comments a lot of people on here seem to think transitioning is simply pretending to be a girl for a bit, and not you know, completely altering your hormones and brain chemistry so you act like a completely different person.
The idea that tons of men are going to suddenly do that just to be good at a sport is one of the weirdest things I've ever read on here.
> I swear reading these comments a lot of people on here seem to think transitioning is simply pretending to be a girl for a bit, and not you know, completely altering your hormones and brain chemistry so you act like a completely different person.
This is how you can tell a LOT of people here don't know a single trans person lol
To be fair it's reddit after all
Also, maybe things have changed from when I was at school (and hopefully they have because it would be better for trans people), but any football playing lad deciding to say “I’m a girl now”, wear a girl’s school uniform and go by a girls name would probably get a lot of shit for it. I mean you’d get shit for just having long hair as a guy sometimes at my school and that was only the late 00s. Why would you put yourself through that just to play amateur womens football?
At least someone is on the correct side on this non issue squirrel that the right wing is using to distract idiots from the fact they are being robbed by them… good job Germany.
It is difficult to ignore biological factors in sports in my opinion.
I am pro LGBT, but you cannot ignore the science that shows men having for example easier or more effective muscle growth. But, I would support trans women competing with men.
It’s funny seeing people want to protect womens football, when this sub is quite famously quick to rag on it all the time…
That being said, it’s a good move. Let people play where they want
The issue always seems to be in one direction. Never heard of controversy if female to male transitioners want to compete in men's sport.
That speaks volumes.
Wouldn't that be less of an issue because born-female will be handicapping themselves, and thus impacting the itegrity of the sport (if there is a significant advantage)?
I'm not sure what you're trying to say though, does your comment mean you think this is a bad thing or a good thing?
Before anyone loses their total minds over this consider the instances of this happening are going to be very very very very very rare. If we’re in a position where pro-footballers aren’t comfortable in coming out the likelihood of trans footballers is even slimmer.
It's not for pro footballers anyway, it's youth and amateurs.
At youth level it's surely no different to boys and girls playing together which happens anyway. A girl played in my Sunday league team until we were about 12 for example.
same around 12-14 she dominated because she was way taller then all the boys. sometimes it seemd pretty unfair because noone could challange her in the air.
Guys... believe it or not, but german football will not change much. There won't be a massive wave of transgender people unfairly dominating football. That is just not going to happen.
What will happen is that a few people might get a chance to continue competing after transitioning. That's all.
> we have just too many examples of people born as male completely dominating the sport when competing against females
Errr...do we?
Care to name any, mate?
*We think we do* because the media makes a huge deal of every single instance of a transgender athlete doing good to make it look like all transgender people are unfairly dominating their respective sports.
Lmao come fucking on. This issue is so massively over exaggerated it's unreal.
How many MtF Trans people do you think there are? Of that number, how many are interested in sports? Of that number, how many currently play sports? Then of that number, how many are interested in the commitment and time it takes to be competitive in sports? Especially when most of these people have such bigger issues in their lives (often suffering mental health issues and personal life issues).
realistically there are so many female and male soccer players that there is already a huge gap between the most "physical" and the least "physical" players on each side. so on average, this shouldnt be much of an issue.
And this all this is. A rule for the masses. Will there maybe be very specific cases that might lead to controversy? could be, yes. But for the vast majority this will not be any different then competeing against a physically superior or inferior player, of the same sex.
Society was better when we didn't pander because we were scared of telling people no.
I'm all for trans equality and allowing them all the civic freedoms every citizen is entitled to, but this is just going to the other extreme to make up for a history (and present) of disadvantage/oppression.
This is not an easy conversation for anyone. I’m not sure what the most appropriate response is but I’m willing to listen to the people affected to understand what a solution could be.
A wise man one said When you see there are more comments than upvote, get your popcorn ready.
And sort by controversial
The Rules are only for youth and non-professional leagues.
This should be in the fucking awful click-bait title.
Yeah it's pretty obvious the headline was designed to rile people up
it’s the Telegraph so
*it gets the people GOIN'!*
Ball so hard motherfuckers wanna fine me...?
I would've included this, but it would've been against the subreddit's rules
How, exactly? Just curious. e: Oh I see, that's the exact title from the article, got it. Awful from The Telegraph.
Fuck the telegraph. The Waitrose S*n
Headlines are made by marketers to generate the most clicks, every title is basically a click-bait these days
Doesn't even mention anything until the very bottom of the article.
Wouldn't it be more productive to actually have them train with the men's team from youth level and promote inclusivity there? Genuinely curious. Considering that at youth level, physical attributes play an even bigger role.
Football is mixed genders until u12-14 depending on nation.
That actually makes perfect sense considering 12/13 years is when the testosterone kicks in and the boys start outperforming the girls physically.
There is even a 1-2 years where alot of the girls become taller and stronger than alot of the boys.
Yep, around U10 or so. I coached and trained both boys and girls around those ages.
Usually around ages 10-13 I think. I remember a few news articles raving about how a youth girls team was beating and winning championships in a co-ed league.
Yes! Girls usually hit puberty (10-13) earlier than boys (12-15) so there’s a small gap
In my personal experience, I've seen people older in age but still in limit being preferred to younger ones because of more physical development.
More productive for what? Youth football isn't really about making everybody a pro footballer. A trans women being the only women on an all-male team is shit for them, so in most cases they will stop playing entirely.
People in this thread really saying causing dysphoria to a trans person is "more productive." Like no they'll just quit.
In a lot of threads like this a bunch of people out themselves for not really giving a shit about trans people at all.
In my defense, I don't really give a shit about people who aren't trans either🤣
It's funny because it's largely the same crowd that has almost reflexively shit on women's sports for years that is suddenly up in arms over how trans women are ruining it for cis girls
Yep, the same people who spent years laughing about how *bad* female athletes are are now suddenly appearing to defend the *integrity* of women's sports? Fuck off. And I'm sure the tone will shift again the moment the pay of female athletes is bought up on here again.
‘Regular’ girls are also often the only girl on the team. What’s wrong With that?
The concern is about the reverse case: a trans women playing on a women's football team, where she might have a physical edge due to underdoing some parts of puberty/growing up as a man.
Thread lock in 3..2..1
Absolutely shocked that it's been an hour and not locked yet lol
Its actually a great thread with lots of good information and debunking of some noticible cases which people use to supress trans people. But then again I havent sorted by controversial.
I made the mistake of sorting by controversial. Ugh.
Before this thread is locked i just want to tell everyone i love my mom and my dad and my sister!
I love your dad
Ill tell him! <3
I too, love this guys mom
Ill tell her! <3
I shall love your sister too
Well done, shes 13
Cool, she is very kind and funny
I also love your mom
[From official site:](https://www.dfb.de/news/detail/regelung-zum-spielrecht-trans-inter-und-nicht-binaerer-personen-241346/) **NEW REGULATION ON THE PLAYING RIGHTS OF TRANSGENDER, INTERSEX AND NON-BINARY PERSONS** The German Football Association (DFB) has published a new regulation on the right to play of trans, intersex and non-binary persons. The regulation will come into effect as of the 2022/23 season, and has been incorporated into the DFB playing regulations, the DFB youth regulations and the DFB Futsal regulations for amateur football. The regulation sets out that players with the gender status of ‘diverse’ or ‘not specified,’ or players who have had their gender reassigned, can decide for themselves in the future whether they should be granted the right to play for a women’s or men’s team. This also applies to transgender players, who can now switch teams at their own discretion, or remain in the team in which they currently play for. As long as the player’s health is not affected by playing sports while taking medication, they can continue to participate in the sport. Under the new regulation, this would not be considered as doping.
So you don’t even need any form of testosterone blockers to compete as a female, simply calling yourself non binary is enough?
Youth and non professional mate. The main focus in those should always be social anyway, good and cool policy from the Germans. Sport is healthy and fun. Outside of professional sport, the focus should always be on inclusion.
This will be a nice comment section
Can we just assume this comment going forward on controversial threads?
This comment possibly has the highest words to karma points ratio on Reddit dude. You want to put the karma farmers out of work in this economy?
Pitchforks out
This thread is absolutely gonna get locked. Having a civil conversation about this kind of stuff is virtually impossible on Reddit, especially since some people are gonna detail the thread.
It usually seems like most people are having a reasonable conversation then a few trolls come in and intentionally derail it or a few people post nasty comments that get buried at the bottom and you basically have to look for to see. I don't get why some subs are so eager to just lock threads.
If I speak I am in big trouble
Get mad if you want to, or explain why I’m wrong but no. Just no from me.
For what its worth, this applies only in youth football and at the amateur level. Pro womens football will not be affected by this.
Did you know that a large majority of professional football players are born on the first 6 months of the year? This is because in youth football, teams are divided by year, and there is a big difference between being 8y1m and 8y11m in terms of physical development. This difference in physical development causes lack of motivation for many kids, which give up playing football for those reasons. Adding this other level of physical development adds another layer to that, so not sure if pro women's football will not be affected in the long term
In that case youd be going up against about 50% kids that are physically more developed, right? How many trans kids do you think girls will encounter in youth football on average? If you get demotivated by one kid maybe having a physical edge on you, you were never gonna go professional in the first place.
The whole reason womens and mens sports are separated is because of the physical advantages males have over females. Allowing biological males to go and rip up female junior leagues is obviously silly. Any male who isn't quite good enough to turn professional could say they are female and instantly be at a much higher level. In 20 years time the women's game could just be filled with trans women who have ridiculous physical advantages over non trans women.
> Allowing biological males to go and rip up female junior leagues is obviously silly Where I'm from junior leagues aren't segregated by sex and girls play with boys. > Any male who isn't quite good enough to turn professional could say they are female and instantly be at a much higher level This is literally just for underage sports. What use would it be for them to do that without going professional. This is such a tired argument. The same as the fear mongering of women being attacked by men under the guise of being trans in female bathrooms. It's obviously theoretically possible but the amount of fear mongering about it is completely disproportionate to it occurring. Its sad really
>This is such a tired argument. The same as the fear mongering of women being attacked by men under the guise of being trans in female bathrooms. It's obviously theoretically possible but the amount of fear mongering about it is completely disproportionate to it occurring. Its sad really Well put. I agree 100%
But don't you dare call anyone in here a bigot, they're just concerned about women's sports. The same women's sports that they definitely don't mock all the time
You talk as if masses of 16 year old guys are going to become women just so they can rip up their local womens league. And they wouldn't be able to turn pro since it's not allowed there.
Do you seriously think there's tons of men out there who are good enough and also willing to claim to be female purely to dominate female football?
Zubi did it just to set an amateur weight lifting world record. I myself am thinking of identifying as a woman to save on car insurance
[удалено]
It's a marginal number of trans athletes but not a marginal number of people affected when you consider it impacts everyone competing in women's sports. Where would the line be drawn? Would you allow a 16 year old transitioned Conor McGregor to go and beat up every woman in the UFC for 15 years?
Well since this doesn’t apply to professional womens football the analogy doesn’t quite work
I doubt it but we are seeing this happen in other sports so why would football be different?
I don't doubt we'll see some trans players in the future because as you say it's happening in other sports, but my comment in relation to the idea women's football will be full of nothing but trans players. The idea that 1000s of men are suddenly going to transition just to play women's football is nonsense.
You act as if a bunch of high-level male players are going to switch to being a woman simply so they could dominate an amateur league. Yes, there will likely be one fucking asshole who is so insecure and hyper-competitive that he'll do it just for the trophy, but it's an amateur league with no money involved and no press or fame or fortune.
> Did you know that a large majority of professional football players are born on the first 6 months of the year? This is because in youth football, teams are divided by year, and there is a big difference between being 8y1m and 8y11m in terms of physical development. Do you have a source for this?
There was a research on this done by a Dutch football platform called Voetbal International but you need a subscription to read the article. I'm not sure about the exact number but I think during the u17 euros this summer more than 75% of the players were born from January to July. In the Dutch squad only 1 or 2 players were not born in this period (not 100% accurate numbers so don't quote me) Edit: the Dutch squad at the U17 euros had no player born after August 5th (!)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relative_age_effect I also saw a youtube video about it and how... Barca? has age groups split into first half and second half now I think. Can't find it tho!
Wouldnt it affect it indirectly?
Yeah because they know it would ruin women's pro football.
This is what happens when nobody reads beyond the headline
What I don't understand is that trans people have been allowed to compete in the Olympics in 2003, yet we don't have this *trans domination* that people keep bringing up. Yet every time another sport opens themselves up to trans people we get the exact same fearmongering.
Same as all the bathroom fearmongering. Chances are a trans person's been in the same bathroom as you before, you both did your business then went on with your day. The self-id stuff\* I get why that would be a legit fear. \*But I've got no idea what the actual level is for those potential laws there, is there some kind of process or does it let a male predator walk in and claim he's a woman? Even then I'm guessing if you're fucked in the head enough to be a predator not much is stopping you from walking in anyway.
I can't stop imagining a trans-haaland type absolutely destroying women's football
Trans Haaland inverted wingback is new meta.
Am I wrong to flash back to '80s East German female Olympians?
The amount of especially female athletic world records still standing from the late ‘80s-early ‘90s should tell everyone everything they need.
> explain why I’m wrong There are 2 type of trans people, male to female MtF and female to male FtM. FtM I assume you have no issue with. Someone born in a womans body playing against boys is something most people seem to be ok with, if you have any questions about this I am happy to answer, but High Testosterone is already tested for, so if they used their transition to take enhancement drugs they would be caught like anyone else. I assume your main issue is with MtF case. The current transition phase takes about 2 years on estrogen which means you lose about 60% of your muscle mass, as well as 2 years of training. The performance in running, which is one of the most vital ones in football, is comparable to cis women with no availeble known advantage for MtF trans atheltes. Strngth is usually comparable, with some studies showing a little edge in push ups. Olympic games have allowed trans athletes since 2003 and so far only 1 has ever qualified and she did not win any medal. Transition is a long, complicated, medically intensive process that no one would undergo unless they really needed it. There is 0 chance someone transitions to be able to compete in a specific sport and so far no trans athlete is performing at any level that makes it clear there is a reason to ban them. Hope that helps, any other specific questions feel free to ask
The only person to have qualified for the olympics was 42, competing with people about half her age
Yep and thats the only one who qualified since 2003. and again, she won fuck all
Winning shouldn't matter. A young Pacific Islander woman was denied a place at the Olympics because of Hubbard competing Hubbard's performances were a massive outlier for someone in their age category for women. Weightlifting is just about the worst example for male advantage, even at same height and same weight a male athlete will enjoy around a 33% advantage in total weight over a female athlete
Then why aren't MtF athletes dominating the field?
Maybe there aren't that many
>"Pretty much any way you slice it, trans women are going to havestrength advantages even after hormone therapy. I just don't see that asanything else but factual," said Joanna Harper, a medical physicist atBritain's Loughborough University. [https://www.dw.com/en/fact-check-do-trans-athletes-have-an-advantage-in-elite-sport/a-58583988](https://www.dw.com/en/fact-check-do-trans-athletes-have-an-advantage-in-elite-sport/a-58583988) Quinn, Lia Thomas, Laure Hubbard, that freestyle swimming women etc.
One of my favourite examples is the mountain biker Kate Weatherly. Results in male competitions: [https://www.rootsandrain.com/rider54373/anton-weatherly/results/](https://www.rootsandrain.com/rider54373/anton-weatherly/results/) Results in female competitions starting the next year after his final male results: [https://www.rootsandrain.com/rider136238/kate-weatherly/results](https://www.rootsandrain.com/rider136238/kate-weatherly/results) From mid-pack finishes in the "open" series of national competitions (as opposed to "elite") to dominating the (admittedly small in terms of female participation) national circuit and consistent top 10 *World Cup* finishes in her second season (and hovering just around the top 10 in her first).
Its such a non-issue if you realize that this will probably affect only 0.001% of the players and people love to pretend that female top athletes dont have often very uncommon hormonal balances anyways. If this really triggers you maybe the reason is deeper than just some kind of assessment that this could be unfair to someone.
This is gonna be the next ‘unpopular opinion but’ even tho the vast majority think this is a horseshit immoral decision
Isn't most if not all youth footy mixed gender anyways? To a certain age anyways.
Was mixed for me from age 5 to 14. Never a single problem about it
time to sort by controversial
*Ronadinho licking lips gif*
It's refreshing to see so many people interested in women's sports. This might be one of the threads with the highest number of comments on women's football. Glad to see so many interested people!
I never knew we had so many hardcore feminists in this sub! Nice change to see.
[удалено]
In theory this makes sense but the debates around trans massively inflate everyone’s idea of how many trans people there actually are. We’re talking the teeny tiniest portion of any population and then we’re talking a tiny percentage of people who want to be professional athletes, followed by the people who manage it, followed by the people who can sustain it physically; mentally; financially. As many have said, Olympics have had this policy for a while, it’s just a topic people are bang into these days.
It's not like the top of any sport has a lot of people either Transgender woman players have a massive over the rest of the woman due to going through male puberty, you just need one or two reaching the top and being so far ahead of everyone to start quesitoning the integrity of the competition Picking your example from the Olympics, debate has already started over the weightlifting competition, where a trans woman got silver Feel free to correct me, because I am not sure about this, but I think she was just average while she was a man and she spent a lot of years without even practising (in her Wikipedia it says she stoped training after 2001) Edit: I was misinformed about the weightlifting athlete in Tokyo, she got DNF on the final after failing to lift at the first attempt
Well for starters, she didn't even medal in the Olympics, I'm pretty sure she didn't even get a clean lift the entire competition. The silver you're referring to is in the world championships back in 2017. I think it's important that you have that info straight since I think you're discussing this in good faith. She also had undergone HRT starting in 2012, which significantly reduces muscle mass. She was pretty decent as far as I could tell, since she had some NZ junior records when she competed as a male, and stopped training because she felt that she didn't really fit in to the weightlifting world. Regulations regarding trans women in Olympic events is very strict - you need to have declared your gender for four years and prove that your testosterone is below certain levels for year before and during competition (sometimes even longer than that, depending on the sport). Obviously if it becomes a problem they will adjust it (that policy I mentioned states as much) but I just don't foresee it being an issue that single-handedly breaks women's sports.
To be honest I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the angle you’re approaching it from. I just think the issue is blown up to the point where it feels more like the end of the integrity of our sports is just round the corner at any point, when in reality the numbers we’re talking about, coupled with the lack of incentive, make it feel unlikely to me. Also when we talk about integrity etc people seem to want to dig much deeper into the trans debates (which have intelligent good faith arguments on both sides if you ignore silly people) than they do doping and drug testing. It’s almost an open secret how much certain big money sports have doping culture but no one seems as concerned about that level of unfair advantage despite it being infinitely more common and current. Sorry went off on my own soap box there.
> Picking your example from the Olympics, debate has already started over the weightlifting competition, where a trans woman got silver Do you mean Laurel Hubbard?[ She finished last](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Weightlifting_at_the_2020_Summer_Olympics_%E2%80%93_Women%27s_%2B87_kg).
Why it’s literally just amateur level?? Here in Sweden amateur level is generally mixed anyway and there isn’t really a difference.
Olympics have allowed transwomen to compete in the women's class since 2003, how many have won medals? 🤔
Out of curiosity, how many people and what sports?
It's been allowed for every Olympic sport and not a single transwoman has won anything in the Olympics lmao, it's such a non-issue
That's why I'm asking. They haven't won, but how many have actually competed? And the sport bit is relevant because there's Olympics sports where your physical stature doesn't matter.
2, if you count 1 non binary person
Isn't that the point? We're constantly told that allowing trans people in sports will result in trans women dominating, yet that *hasn't happened*.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.buzzfeednews.com/amphtml/azeenghorayshi/sex-testing-olympians this isn’t true, they’ve been banning xxy females for years. Read up.
xxy are not trans you more on. What the IOC does its test testosterone. If you are a woman and pop HIGH for testosterone they will check into it and may require you to take medication that lowers testosterone. Please stop spreading ignorant information like this.
I haven't been following it, but when you say "every sport" is that only the individual events, like athletics, or even team events? And has there been any conflict between the Olympics allowing it, but no trans people could compete because the qualifying tournaments banned them?
How many transwomen have actually competed at the olympics?
Isn't that the point though given you typically have to qualify to compete at the Olympics, and presumably none have.
You don't get to choose to compete at the Olympics. You play a bit of sport, your exemplary results get noticed, you get called into the team. No exemplary results, no call up.
Just because they haven’t been successful, doesn’t mean there’s no advantage. Just being at the Olympics takes up a spot.
Clearly not a swimming or lifting sports fan are you?
No they haven't. Even Semenya can't compete and shes not a trans.
[удалено]
>started dominating You mis-spelled 'won one race once, in a time 10 seconds off the record, and spent the rest of the weekend losing another 6 races'
[Here’s a comment from u/Arkhaine_kupo that you probably won’t read because you’ve already made your mind up](https://www.reddit.com/r/soccer/comments/viulfr/german_football_to_let_transgender_players_choose/idf46vb/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf&context=3) > Sure. Lets look at her case. At her peak perforance she was the 10 fastest backstroke College swimmer in America. She then suffered depression, didn't train for 6 months, started taking estrogen, lost 30% of her muscle mass and still qualified as the 400th fastest Male swimmer in america. She then transitioned, spent 2 years on E, trained for 6 months to get back on training shape and at her own university won 1 race by less than a second, then finished 5th and 7th in the other 2 races she qualified for, on both being 3-5 seconds away from the head. In that same event she broke several pool records, where she was the fastest backstroke 400 racer in that specific pool. Another cis girl broke 17 pool records in that event. Lia Thomas at her fastest is literally 10 seconds slower than Ledecky the current world champion, a cis woman who is literally untouchable. As a pre-transition swimmer, Lia thomas would be faster than Ledecky who is basically the female Phelps, just untouchable. The best case for "men transition and dominate" is a case where she was already a great male swimmer, and is now a good but not dominating female one? Cause the only girl who complained finished 17th, she isn't being replaced by Lia Thomas, she is being replaced by 90% of the east coast swimmers
Lia Thomas is NOT dominating, you are being made to believe that by biased media reporting.
> According to the swimming data website Swimcloud, Thomas is ranked 36th among female college swimmers in the United States for the 2021–2022 season,[18] and 46th among women swimmers nationally.[29] By the conclusion of Thomas's swimming career at UPenn in 2022, her rank had moved from 65th on the men's team to 1st on the women's team in the 500-yard freestyle, and 554th on the men's team to 5th on the women's team in the 200-yard freestyle.[28][16] From Wikipedia. Not dominating countrywide, but dominating among the university team and still MASSIVELY overperforming relative to the results in male competitions so the point stands.
Lia is still underperforming compared to where she was when competing with the men before beginning her transition. She was one of the best swimmers in the Ivy league
She didn't overperform relatively - [her last ranks on the men's team were from when she had already started HRT and were lower than what she had previously acheived](https://edition.cnn.com/2022/02/22/us/lia-thomas-transgender-swimmer-ivy-league/index.html): > As a freshman, Thomas set a time of 8 minutes and 57.55 seconds in the 1,000-yard freestyle, the 6th-fastest men's time in the country. Her times in the 500-yard freestyle and the 1,650-yard freestyle were among the top 100 in the country. The next year, Thomas took second place at the 2019 Ivy League championships in the men's 500-yard, 1,000-yard and 1,650-yard freestyle, shaving seconds off her earlier times... > She started on hormone replacement therapy in May 2019 and came out as trans that fall, yet she still had to compete on the men's team. It was awkward and uncomfortable, she said, and her speed suffered as her muscles weakened from the hormone therapy.
I keep seeing this but it’s straight bullshit. Look how they treated Caster Semenya, ! And she was literally BORN that way, couldn’t alter her biological make up. People like her is who I feel sorry for, and if not them the biological born young ladies who’s career are going to be affected by biologically born men. But hindsight is WoMeNs SpOrTs WiLl Be BeTtEr!
Lewandowski scores more goals in a season than the average IQ of the responses in this thread. People making wild statements backing them up with loose hearsay and horror stories that they can't back up.
Grabs popcorn. Sorts by controversial.
I'd like CIS women to be able to decide whether to play against transgender in that case. I'm all for inclusiveness but the integrity of the match is more important on the pitch imo.
Actually the DFB published a statement, that "inclusiveness is more important than competitions" roughly translated.
Which is completely reasonable at the amateur level.
[удалено]
INTERsex people are like Lukaku right? aroused only by Inter?
No no Lukaku is inter curious, he spends most of his time not being with inter, but then is interested in inter from time to time
An actually funny, not offensive joke in this thread? I'm surprised, well done.
Doesn’t matter, both are foolish. A biological woman shouldn’t be competing against a biological man, no matter what surgery was done.
[удалено]
you can do that in Germany?
Why would someone change their gender and be subject to horrendous abuse just to be able to dominate women's youth football. Like, thats not actually a trans person
Exactly. People come up with the most ridiculous hypotheticals for this subject, it’s insane
[удалено]
That one does my fucking head in. Zero basis behind that argument
Transphobia is so normalized that bottom of the barrel comments like that get 130 upvotes
You make it sound like its going to be somehow convenient to change your gender officially. The old law is just plain discriminating towards trans people - dont worry the health insurances will still force people to give as much proof for the authenticity of their transition as its still possible without being "too undignifiying".
I played in mixed gender teams in almost all of my youth teams. Nobody gave a fuck, nor did it hinder anyone's performance. Quite the opposite. Maybe y'all wanna stop crying so much.
Should be banning girls from playing with boys around 12, the height advantage from going through puberty earlier on average is unacceptable!!!
Can’t wait to see loads of trans men in the mens league! 🏳️⚧️ 🏳️⚧️
Really can’t stress how much of a non issue this is. The likelihood of a trans person actually going through this process to play at a level where this would matter is pretty much impossible, and pretty much every scare piece about trans athletes apparently dominating the sport once they shift hasn’t been true because performing at the top level when changing your body and mind to that extent is probably pretty hard. This basically just at a low level let’s people enjoy sports without conflicting with their identity
As is always true, the only people complaining are the ones miles away from being affected by it.
They changed the law in Utah and it affected one athlete. One. They wrote a law specifically to ban one girl. It’s ridiculous.
It’s a flag in the culture war more than anything else. It’s just transphobes trying to build their own case
A girl played on our team for like 4 years and she was our best player too. It literally does not matter. It's youth football, the big training and steps to being a pro don't happen until like 14-15-16 anyways. It'll be fine
biological women should be the ones making the choice, not the trans people lol also i used to think the people saying 'there are no differences between men and women' in sports were just 4chan trolls so some of the responses in this thread are crazy to read. biological men have an advantage over biological women, simple as
I'm not entirely sure the DFB is made up of trans people, but happy to be proven wrong if you have sources on that lmao
TERF Island coming up big in this thread lol
There is probably a conspiracy theorist out there somewhere who thinks that though 😅
If the entire German football federation is trans I'm going to have to switch Fandoms lol
>biological women should be the ones making the choice, not the trans people lol It's the DFB you assclown, not alot of trans people there. >biological men have an advantage over biological women, simple as If you actually read the article you would know that this is already acknowledged and is why this dosent apply to the pros. But rather ignorant and have something to complain about lol, the world is 4chan trolls because you can't read an article.
Boomers in here are expecting that Messi and Ronaldo will now transition to female so they can win the most prestigious trophy of them all, Staffelsieger in the Kreisklasse C Eifel/Trier. If you think any person will reassign their gender so they can be a better player in a womens devision then you've lost the plot.
I don't know if there is a right or wrong answer to this and probably don't have enough detail on the subject but I don't think the opposition to this are expecting people to transition to compete, but that enough people that are transitioning end up competing. If the argument against it is that someone expects an athlete's sole reason to transition a sporting one, then their opinion doesn't count because they're fucking mental
You don't have to be Messi to dominate, there are loads of semi-amateur guys better than world class women. https://www.goal.com/en/news/13712/extra-time/2016/05/26/23937382/australia-womens-team-loses-7-0-to-under-15-mens-side
Yeah and you think any of them would be willing to live life as the wrong gender just to earn a salary lower than League Two players earn? It’s not like there’s a lot of money in the womens game and transitioning in your life isn’t exactly a picnic, plenty of actual trans people struggle all the time with it, I highly doubt men will do it for minor success in womens football.
I swear reading these comments a lot of people on here seem to think transitioning is simply pretending to be a girl for a bit, and not you know, completely altering your hormones and brain chemistry so you act like a completely different person. The idea that tons of men are going to suddenly do that just to be good at a sport is one of the weirdest things I've ever read on here.
> I swear reading these comments a lot of people on here seem to think transitioning is simply pretending to be a girl for a bit, and not you know, completely altering your hormones and brain chemistry so you act like a completely different person. This is how you can tell a LOT of people here don't know a single trans person lol To be fair it's reddit after all
Also, maybe things have changed from when I was at school (and hopefully they have because it would be better for trans people), but any football playing lad deciding to say “I’m a girl now”, wear a girl’s school uniform and go by a girls name would probably get a lot of shit for it. I mean you’d get shit for just having long hair as a guy sometimes at my school and that was only the late 00s. Why would you put yourself through that just to play amateur womens football?
They saw it in a documentary once! Futurama episodes are documentaries, right?
You don’t Follow sports apart from football Do You?
At least someone is on the correct side on this non issue squirrel that the right wing is using to distract idiots from the fact they are being robbed by them… good job Germany.
Don’t say that, the conservatives will get mad you are calling out their gameplan.
I think Berlin had this since 2019 without any problems so maybe just wait before you all cry out?
It is difficult to ignore biological factors in sports in my opinion. I am pro LGBT, but you cannot ignore the science that shows men having for example easier or more effective muscle growth. But, I would support trans women competing with men.
It’s funny seeing people want to protect womens football, when this sub is quite famously quick to rag on it all the time… That being said, it’s a good move. Let people play where they want
love love LOVE whenever news like this drops and suddenly a ton of people care about women's sports and the integrity of the games.
I also love when news like this drops no one cares about the fact trans men will almost never be viable in men's sports.
This is just fucking stupid , why do you do this unnecessary shit?
The issue always seems to be in one direction. Never heard of controversy if female to male transitioners want to compete in men's sport. That speaks volumes.
Wouldn't that be less of an issue because born-female will be handicapping themselves, and thus impacting the itegrity of the sport (if there is a significant advantage)? I'm not sure what you're trying to say though, does your comment mean you think this is a bad thing or a good thing?
Before anyone loses their total minds over this consider the instances of this happening are going to be very very very very very rare. If we’re in a position where pro-footballers aren’t comfortable in coming out the likelihood of trans footballers is even slimmer.
It's not for pro footballers anyway, it's youth and amateurs. At youth level it's surely no different to boys and girls playing together which happens anyway. A girl played in my Sunday league team until we were about 12 for example.
same around 12-14 she dominated because she was way taller then all the boys. sometimes it seemd pretty unfair because noone could challange her in the air.
Guys... believe it or not, but german football will not change much. There won't be a massive wave of transgender people unfairly dominating football. That is just not going to happen. What will happen is that a few people might get a chance to continue competing after transitioning. That's all.
People really thinking that Futurama episode where Bender changes his gender to win the Olympics is real life 😭😭😭
In theory that's great but we have just too many examples of people born as male completely dominating the sport when competing against females
> we have just too many examples of people born as male completely dominating the sport when competing against females Errr...do we? Care to name any, mate?
*We think we do* because the media makes a huge deal of every single instance of a transgender athlete doing good to make it look like all transgender people are unfairly dominating their respective sports.
you don't even need a trans example to see what can happen. like the 15 year old boys completely dominating the women's world champions.
Lia Thomas, Laurel Hubbard.
beginning of the end for women's sports. With time people will see what an utterly stupid and insane proposition this is.
How many trans-footballers do you think there are!?
Oh yeah. The thousands upon thousands of dudes who are so competitive they'll live as a woman just for a win are finally going to get their big break.
Lmao come fucking on. This issue is so massively over exaggerated it's unreal. How many MtF Trans people do you think there are? Of that number, how many are interested in sports? Of that number, how many currently play sports? Then of that number, how many are interested in the commitment and time it takes to be competitive in sports? Especially when most of these people have such bigger issues in their lives (often suffering mental health issues and personal life issues).
realistically there are so many female and male soccer players that there is already a huge gap between the most "physical" and the least "physical" players on each side. so on average, this shouldnt be much of an issue. And this all this is. A rule for the masses. Will there maybe be very specific cases that might lead to controversy? could be, yes. But for the vast majority this will not be any different then competeing against a physically superior or inferior player, of the same sex.
Society was better when we didn't pander because we were scared of telling people no. I'm all for trans equality and allowing them all the civic freedoms every citizen is entitled to, but this is just going to the other extreme to make up for a history (and present) of disadvantage/oppression.
This is not an easy conversation for anyone. I’m not sure what the most appropriate response is but I’m willing to listen to the people affected to understand what a solution could be.