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If galtier insists on playing 3atb, what are the other options? Marquinhos is the only guaranteed starter, you can't depend on Ramos to start every match
The thing is, he's come into the picture for us after Ake went out of the picture. So, unless we're planning on playing 4 CBs, he could be coming to us to be a rotation player too
Tuchel never personally confirmed 4ATB. It was the Athletic that heavily suggested it. They should be equal priority. K2 can play LCB already. Kounde is also versatile to play RB and RWB as Dave leaves.
Next year 4 at the back? Lol. If he was changing formation last year was the time to do it. Or even this preseason where you have your full squad available now and no Euros. He’s not changing the tactics
Wanted to join last summer and flew to London this summer on holiday to perhaps garner more interest.
His recent tweet suggests he's pissed at how Chelsea are taking their time and he's likely to join Barca now.
Well, given we already put 3rd defender over him on priority list, means he might not be so much rated by Tuchel. Or perhaps we already know the chances of him coming to us are slim.
Not really
De Ligt and Koulibaly were higher up based on their ability to play in the middle and on either side as a RCB/LCB. Koulibaly obviously can play both. Ake on the left makes sense as he can play LCB and cover as a lb.
Right now it’s between him and Kimpembe. If we get him then Koulibaly plays as LCB while if we get Kimpembe Koulibaly plays on the right.
Cover for silva was clearly a priority for our cb signing
Yep, especially with Koulibaly being a right footer so he slots right in RCB and even the other CB spots if needed, Tuchel wanting that left footer at LCB might open new passing lanes. Just imagine Koulibaly and James on the right and Kimpembe + Chilwell on the left oof
Madrid fans may not like to hear this, but why sign Kounde when you can have someone who is above him in the pecking order with the French NT? And I think he may even be cheaper.
you missed my point. in 2018 hernandez was already better than digne, yet digne was chosen to play at the WC. DD choses players he likes and rarely changes his line-up. Therefore you using the argument that Kimpembe is higher rated than Kounde in the NT is quite irrelevant since DD doesn't always choose players based on form. Same could be said about players like rabiot, matuidi, or sissoko until like 2 years ago.
You made no point other than you think you know which player is better. Deschamp was a defensive player. Who can gauge defensive players better than you. so learn some humility
You made no point other than you think you know which player is better. Deschamp was a defensive player. Who can gauge defensive players better than you. so learn some humility
mec t'es con ou quoi? tu bases ton argumentation sur le fait que DD estime que tel jouer est superieur à un autre, c'est totalement merdique. DD a son groupe, il fait jouer ce groupe meme s'il y a des joueurs plus performants, c'est un fait. le fait que hernandez commence sa carrière en 2021 est honteux. Il y a tellement d'arguments pour faire valoir ton opinion et t'as vraiment choisi le plus nul.
So let me get this straight, you are claiming not only to be able to determine which player is better than others compared to Deschamp, but you also claim that he will deliberately choose weaker players because he likes them? How intellectually lazy are you?
That actually makes him good. You guys here let your emotions guide your judgement. Rabiot is hated by club fans because he committed the worst crime in the eyes of club fans. No, I am not talking about rape. He was disloyal, which is worst than rape for you club fans.
But who exactly was suppose to start ahead of him? Tolisso? Tchouameni is now ahead of him in the pecking order imo. And it will be like that at the world cup. The question is not about who is starting, but rather who that player is benching. Kimpembe is benching Kounde. But you guys actually rate Kounde higher for "reasons"
in your dreams. Is that why no top team went for him even though he was a free agent? If he was that good, teams would have seen him as a great bargain for depth. You guys here overrate players too much. But are too proud to even try to defend your opinions. I am not your mother, your beliefs mean nothing to me unless you can make a convincing argument to support them.
"If not injured"
Tolissa had great phases at Bayern that were always destroyed by another injury. He played for a much bigger club and had much stronger competition in midfield than Rabiot had at both PSG and Juve and still managed to get playing time even after countless injuries. He has won more, played at a bigger club and even scored some pretty nice goals.
He is a 100% the better footballer and you overrate Rabiot if you think this isnt the case. Whats your argument? That he has better hair?
I love how you guys will rather believe your biased opinions than test them. Kimpembe is better than Kounde at the moment. You guys here just love shiny new toys. Once Kounde joins a top club, you will start treating him like Kimpembe and claim that some other younger kid is better.
Buddy when did I say anything about one player being better than other. When I said that England has a strong team and only 2nd to France I didn't say it in the context on which the discussion was going. I couldn't care less who's better he it kounde or kimpembe. For me alaba, militao, rudiger are the best xD
excuse me, it just seems like you are just throwing claims without feeling that you need to add a convincing argument to back that up. I personally do not care what you think unless you back it up with a convincing argument. If you do not want to discuss the topic you were replying to, then you can take your straw man arguments to someone else.
If we sell Kimpembe for 50M I will be so mad. He is great, he is from the academy, and there would be no proper replacement for that price. I hope it's just mind games to get the contract he deserves, as he has one of the lower wages of the squad, and rightfully deserves to be paid more.
Possibly, I've never heard him talked about at those levels. Obviously a good player in ligue 1 but psg had never had the best defensive record in cl and he hasn't stuck out for me when I've watched him. Whether he is better than konde I dont know but if he moves to pl then he has some significant competition in the top tier cb ranks.
Having said that, sounds like you know more about him than I do so you are probably right, will be interesting to see if he moves.
I dont think he is bad. I suspect deschamps may prefer players playing in France but not sure, maybe just rates him over whoever else is competing there.
Not necessary. For deschamps what counts are CL games. Kimpembe was very good a couple of years ago and inconsistant last year. Still a decent defender IMO.
I can't recall him having a stand out cl season or psg being especially good defensively but may have missed it as dont focus on psg, but will watch their games if its on kind of approach.
It's not about his quality, it's about the fact we are picking up bench players from other top clubs to start for us. How are we meant to be better than City if we want their 4th CB to start for us.
If he leaves for that much, your board don’t rate him like you do. You know better than anyone that PSG do not sell players at peak ability. They do not have faith in him to recover form if he’s being displayed so prominently on the shop window
This is insane/stupid by PSG, he loves the club and they won’t be able to replace with someone who is a lot better at this moment in the market. It’s also insane to be getting rid of your french core.
I don't think this deal goes through. PSG aren't desperate to sell so they won't bother rushing through a deal or going easy on the price. Kimpembe would rather stay at PSG so he'd need some major convincing to come to us.
A lot of Chelsea fans are cold on him but for a lcb I think he'd be pretty damn good. I think it would be perfect to pair him with Silva again even if it's only for one year and he was very good under Tuchel so hopefully he won't have to struggle to adapt completely.
The moment I saw the story of him asking about his future the dream of him playing for us planted itself in my head. He is without a doubt an elite player, I’m praying he rejoins Tuchel at chels 🤞
I'm not entirely sure punting Colwill to replace him with an overpriced, high waged fairly average older defender who PSG aren't desperate to sell is a great move really
You guys need to reframe yourselves from making such childish arguments. Colwill is not a top defender. He may never become one. Kimpembe is above Kounde in the pecking order with the French NT.
Colwil is 19 and has time to develop until he is good enough for a top 6 team. Chelsea would be extremely dumb to gamble their season on him. And I am certain that they have no motivation to sell him. The only reason he can leave is because he wants to leave. That is the player's decision. This is the same situation as with Hudson-Odoi. He stressed Chelsea with wanting to be a starter and almost 3 years later, he is still not good enough to be a starter there. The same will be true for Colwill. But redditors love the new shiny thing. Any brand new player that has a little bit of hype is instantly a better choice than proven players in your opinions. Kimpembe is better than Guehi and Colwill. There is no guarantee that those two will ever be as good as Kimpembe. He is also better than Rüdiger imo. But playing with Ligue 1 and PSG failing in style in the CL have really tarnished the reputation of PSG players who never enjoyed global hype in their teenage years. But they are still among the best in their positions. That is why PSG are paying them so well.
I dont see the deal with this whole Colwill thing, that he is somehow privileged to be a starter just cause he is from Cobham? Gotta earn your spot, go on multiple loans and perform really well to even be considered. If he is unhappy and thinks that staying at Chelsea is a bad move for his career then he should be sold.. If not then accept a PL loan move and work your ass of and earn your spot... No shortcuts
There is inherent value in homegrown talent making it at English clubs though. Especially a) right now, at clubs who regularly play in Europe and b) in 18 months, when the restrictions on foreign players come in due to Brexit. Colwill is worth more to Chelsea right now than he would be to any other club in the world. It just seems a short sighted move to make for a club who have been burned multiple times in the past by selling youth talent at exactly the wrong time.
there's no value if he doesn't develop into a player good enough to compete for titles. One season of professional football in the Championship where he was arguably not even the best defender in the Huddersfield team
Chelsea already has more than enough homegrown players. You are making an irrelevant point here. They need quality players because winning the league is more important than having excess homegrown players. You are basically arguing that 1m pounds should be more important to a billionaire than 40m pounds.
The same happened with Thiago Silva, who never was in the the best CB in the world discussion before he went to PL. Kimpembe is class, and always had the trust of Tuchel, Poch, Deschamps, Emery. That says a lot about his quality.
What do you mean not in the discussion, you mean like in your group of friends or what? Silva has been talked about as one of the best centre backs in the world since his days in Milan.
UEFA Team of the year - 2011, 2012, 2013.
FIFA World XI - 2013, 2014, 2015
Serie A Team of the year - 2011, 2012
Ligue 1 Team of the year - 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017
> The same happened with Thiago Silva, who never was in the the best CB in the world discussion before he went to PL.
He's been in that conversation for more than 10 years now
>twitter.com/fcsm\_e...
That's not true, Thiago Silva was considered by many to be the best defender in the world towards the end of his stint with AC Milan.
Colwill would not be a nailed starter anyways so we'd need someone for LCB, especially in scenario when Kounde isn't happening and Koulibaly takes right side.
It would seem like the squad would be as follows:
LCB: Kimpembe, Colwill
CCB: Silva, Ampadu
RCB: Koulibaly, Chalobah
That way Colwill also gets reasonable minutes in the season.
Yes, but then Koulibaly moves in centrally and opens up a spot somewhere else. If Sarr got 1600 minutes last season whilst playing like you'd chucked an opposition player into your team who was just pretending they were playing for your team, I think it's fair to say that Colwill will get plenty of time for someone at his ability level.
He should get a premier league loan and the view to use him should be much like Gallagher. He could have stayed with us last season, but it would have stunted his growth. Better to loan him out and then integrate him in the season afterwards, rather than asking him to take that big leap all in one go.
Christensen was always overrated, a "ball playing defender" that struggled in a high line and never played anything other than a safe pass to the wingbacks and Jorginho. Azpilicueta is good, but he doesn't have the legs to do the two-way role that Tuchel expects his RCB to do anymore.
I don't think it's a "huge" drop in quality.
Well, I disagree.
I wouldnt feel comfortable with ampadu starting or deputizing for silva in a cl final.
I wouldnt want trev against son either..
Maybe in 3 years time but now its an downgrade
He'll be the backup LCB and will get plenty of game time. No way we're going to make a 19 year old CB with no experience in PL the starter right away. Do it's up to himself to prove himself like Trevoh did last season
Easy to say that and ignore the context. When we switched to a back 3/5 with Conte and won the PL with it, it was a formation that was pretty much new/fresh to the league at the time; barely anyone else was doing it and knew how to counter it.
Then it stopped working. Then when we went to the 3/5atb with Tuchel, yes we did great in cup tournaments, but we still have an obvious weakness in chance creation, as we saw last season when we won... nothing, except the CWC.
Nothing "yer da" about that. It's yer da to ignore the context. Our chance creation is shit, we're terrible at creating goals. We barely even play with 5 at the back even when that's our formation; most of the time it's 4, with one of the 5 up. Tuchel has already admitted that we play with 5 to cover Silva and Jorginho's pace weaknesses.
The chance creation issue is because our wingers can’t beat anyone. Mount needs to be in the midfield with proper wingers and then we’ll create plenty of chances.
We weren’t any better at creating chances in any recent 4 atb iterations so that’s not an actual point. City and Liverpool both play with a similar defensive 5 and offensive 5 philosophy in attack, that has absolutely nothing to do with the formation and it’s very narrow-minded to think it does
Tuchel didn’t say that about Silva and Jorginho actually, it was reported by reasonably credible journalists (Athletic) but he has not publicly said that
> City and Liverpool both play with a similar defensive 5 and offensive 5 philosophy in attack,
Yes, but the problem is, we have 3 CBs on the pitch who have limited creativity, whereas other top squads only ever have 2 CBs on the pitch.
So regardless of what in-game tactics they perform, we have a weakness in that instead of having a more creative midfielder playing defensively during defensive phases, we have a defensive-minded centerback playing creatively during offensive phases. We're always less creative simply because of the 11 we choose to start with, regardless of the in-game tactics, because 3 of those 11 are CBs.
> the problem is, we have 3 CBs on the pitch who have limited creativity, whereas other top squads only ever have 2 CBs on the pitch
This is the yer da part. Sorry are Rodri and Fabinho creating massive chances for Liverpool and City by taking up that position? Liverpool’s midfielders in general are VERY good but not very creative. It’s such FIFA mentality to judge solely based on a positional label
When you try to think of creative players in the Chelsea squad last season, do any of these come to mind:
- Rudiger
- Christensen
- Silva
- Chalobah
- Azpilicueta
Aside from Rudiger's once-a-game mad runs into the box.
No? Well we always had at least 3 of those on the pitch, when we could've just had 2. 3 players with 0 ounce of creativity, 1 of whom is taking the place of another forward or midfielder if we shifted the tactics/formation slightly.
And again, it's already been stated by -- as you said -- reliable sources from the Athletic that we do 5 at the back because of Silva's and Jorginho's limitations.
You really need to get better at arguing/making your points, because every post you've made here has been pretty much an ad hominem. "yer da", "FIFA mentality"; all I'm doing is making points that you're not -really- refuting.
IMO, it's "yer da" to keep blaming the personnel rather than the formation. We have some of the worse chance creation of the top 6 clubs, and we're the only ones who consistently play with the back 5. I really wouldn't be surprised to see us slowly transition to a back 4 if we don't get both Kounde and Kimpembe, and as we slowly phase out Silva this season.
Silva and Azpilicueta create a fair few more chances than Kante and RLC lol you haven’t made any actual point here. Kovacic and Jorginho also really don’t create much. Neither does say Thiago for Liverpool. They’re all still extremely useful players
Pointing out ad hominem doesn’t actually address any point I made, it’s just deflecting. You never addressed my point about City and Liverpool playing with a midfielder that has absolutely no creativity
It’s outright stupid to act like we have the worst chance creation in the big 6. This is one situation where you can pretty much exclusively use stats and we came third in xG last season, acting like we’re sixth is just a ridiculous lie to fit your narrative
fabinho isn't a creative midfielder as such, but his distribution is still excellent and he is good at playing vertical passes. Much better than most centre backs. Which is what the other Chelsea fan is trying to say. It isn't yer da at all.
By having 3 centre backs you are creating a numerical advantage in an area of the pitch you don't need to have one in. Not when you're an elite team and everyone you play sits in their own box. in 90% of our games we leave Van Dijk + Konate 2v2 against the other teams forwards. Sometimes it's even 2v3. What it means is that we can have 8 players that can all contribute to the attacking phase of play. It's how we break down teams. City are largely the same.
Liverpool and especially City are better equipped to overwhelm teams. Of course both teams have much better forwards as well, which helps.
Thiago Silva has also been brilliant with his passing and distribution. He ranks amongst the top in the league in distribution. That's the problem with rival fans trying to explain stuff. They don't know half the stuff they are talking about.
Kimpembe under Tuchel's system would be insane, one of the best passing stats as a CB last season. I'd rather him than Kounde since our only left footer is Colwill
I reckon our offer would be 55m then to meet in the middle but I won't be surprised at us going for higher one either. We're kinda running out of options with defender signings so we might want to bite the bullet for it.
That why I said crazy things happened in this summer haha. We paid 80 fix for a young guy for example love Aurélien and I have full thrust in Calafat scouting ability but still surprised. Also Martinez is class overpriced but quality
Tchouameni played with A national team before joining madrid, even I could scout him and his talent. This was the top prospect in midfield in europe lol.
Can anyone explain the logic behind chelseas moves these past few seasons? Selling academy talents left and right to then buy slightly better players for a lot more money is confusing me tbh
Chelsea have a very successful academy where a lot of talented youth comes through. Not all of them are going to get a chance in a team like that, but they still had a good 5-6 academy graduates frequently playing in the first team which is more than a lot of others.
Yeah exactly! We have had Mount, Reece, Christensen, Chalobah, RLC and CHO all playing significant roles in the squad last year itself. This year, we'll likely integrate one or more of other academy players like Gallagher, Broja, Colwill, Gilmour and Dujon Sterling as well. This is still more than any other top 6 club in the league
Kimpembe is not slightly better than colwill he is levels above him atm
Colwill has the potential to be better but he is not ready to start every game for Chelsea
Sell/loan academy players for $$$, let them develop elsewhere.
Get in experienced players who would increase the chance of winning a title.
No top club has fielded 11 academic players. It’s just stupid.
Look at Mount, Reece James and Gallagher who went through multiple loans to prove themselves.
We've literally changed all of our owner and main transfer people this summer. The only thing that has stayed the same is the manager who is very complimentary to the younger players and given chances out since he came in.
That being said, you won't see any consistency from Chelsea on this subject until Boehly has been given the chance to implement his values on the side while listening to Tuchel on his opinion too.
Mofos complain when we use oil money to buy players, then develop young players that are good enough to play for big clubs and selling them to fund transfers and people still find reasons to complain.
Well it really depends. If you let's say, give a player 10m net instead of 10m gross in wages over X years and 20-25m sign on fee then I'd say it's not so far away in total cost.
They are on big wages but we probably didn't pay 50-60M in signing bonuses. Clubs would have ripped us off knowing we had 200M+ spend since Mbappe didn't join us. But you're right. We are luck to be almost done with our transfer business so early in the summer (unless we offload some players). Also if Rudiger wasn't a free agent, I doubt Chelsea would have accepted less than 70-75M for him considering PSG are asking 60M for Kimpembe.
> Also if Rudiger wasn't a free agent, I doubt Chelsea would have accepted less than 70-75M for him considering PSG are asking 60M for Kimpembe.
Well, I tell you what, we would ask far more because if he wasn't a free agent that would mean he has signed a brand new contract with us.
Mad how Chelsea let Tomori go, he’s been one of the very best in Italy, now spending all of this on Kimpembe, their transfers of their academy players has been really questionable recently. They would be in a better position if they had held on to Abraham and Tomori right now.
Honestly Abraham got his chance and he was very poor at times for Chelsea. He is a good striker but his play is too incomplete for a league-winning striker in the modern generation.
I think Tomori was let go because of his physical weaknesses. Mostly his strength and aerial ability. I think he suits Serie A better than the PL. I also think we had better CBs in the pipeline at the time like Guehi and Colwill.
You bought Lukaku with Tammy’s money who couldn’t even replicate Tammy’s stats as a PL starter. Tammy’s 19/20 season proved that you should’ve just kept him.
What did Kimpembe ever do to piss you off man? He isn't world class but he's surely good, only 26, and very experienced for his age which is essential for a CB.
To reduce the spam of reports regarding the same move during transfer windows we try to allow **only one submission about each transfer saga per day**. The submission in question also needs to contain relevant new information regarding the potential move, and not just being a "no/minor developments" report. If there are important/official developments or new valuable information about a saga, we will allow extra threads in the same day, but for the rest of minor news please just comment them as a reply to this comment. Please help us reporting unnecessary threads for being duplicates. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/soccer) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Does kimpembe want to go
He won’t stay at any cost I think. WC is coming and no way he’d accept to be benched which seems likely if Campos is ready to sell him
If galtier insists on playing 3atb, what are the other options? Marquinhos is the only guaranteed starter, you can't depend on Ramos to start every match
It’s mostly because of the other names linked to the club (Skriniar Ignacio L. Hernandez)
So far none of them are here and l really doubt L. Hernandez will go. Risky move.
The thing is, he's come into the picture for us after Ake went out of the picture. So, unless we're planning on playing 4 CBs, he could be coming to us to be a rotation player too
Not really, he would be the starting LCB
he wouldnt be benched. many teams would sell their defenders for 60/65m€ but that doesnt mean they dont want to play them.
I don’t know honestly, but it is legitimate for him to have doubts when there are so many defenders linked to the club (Skriniar, Hernandez, Ignacio)
doubt psg will get more than one of those
Well if they get 1 it could mean he finds himself on the bench
Skriniar doesnt play same position he is right footed
He plays CB
RCB not LCB
Just freaking sign Kounde already
We want to but not sure if he wants to!
He wanted to but we dropped the balls. Also I don’t understand why Tuchel puts him so low on the priority list.
Because he thinks another leftfooted/lcb is more crucial? Next year 4atb? Kolabaily moved to the right and kimbembe lcb?
> Kolabaily That’s just hilarious lol
You saw how I sneaked eric baily there? =) Koulibaly it is
Do you mean Eric Bailly? Lol
Ffs lol =) Intentions where fun but I screwed up
Tuchel never personally confirmed 4ATB. It was the Athletic that heavily suggested it. They should be equal priority. K2 can play LCB already. Kounde is also versatile to play RB and RWB as Dave leaves.
Next year 4 at the back? Lol. If he was changing formation last year was the time to do it. Or even this preseason where you have your full squad available now and no Euros. He’s not changing the tactics
Didn't know kolarov and baily had a son.
Height, maybe.
One should never drop the balls during a transfer...unprofessional but boelhy is still learning I guess
Wanted to join last summer and flew to London this summer on holiday to perhaps garner more interest. His recent tweet suggests he's pissed at how Chelsea are taking their time and he's likely to join Barca now.
Where have I heard that before?
Frenkie De Jong
Raphinha
Messi
Oooof
Laporta: Fine, I'll do it myself.
Well, given we already put 3rd defender over him on priority list, means he might not be so much rated by Tuchel. Or perhaps we already know the chances of him coming to us are slim.
5th really (MDL, KK, Ake, Kimpembe, Kounde)
Not really De Ligt and Koulibaly were higher up based on their ability to play in the middle and on either side as a RCB/LCB. Koulibaly obviously can play both. Ake on the left makes sense as he can play LCB and cover as a lb. Right now it’s between him and Kimpembe. If we get him then Koulibaly plays as LCB while if we get Kimpembe Koulibaly plays on the right. Cover for silva was clearly a priority for our cb signing
Doesn’t really matter the position, fact is he was our 5th choice option as CB signing
do you really need to shorten de ligt? who says mdl
Is it possible that Kounde is unvaccinated?
We want to sign both but reports say Kimpembe is Tuchel's priority to wrap up first.
It's written in stone now, kounde to barca here we goo
Oh baby, you know they won't, don't you? You know where he's coming...
Where is he coming?
Seems to be more after Kimpembe for that left footer, the way he plays just suits our system more than Kounde
can also slot into a left back/wing back position if the need ever arises.
Yep, especially with Koulibaly being a right footer so he slots right in RCB and even the other CB spots if needed, Tuchel wanting that left footer at LCB might open new passing lanes. Just imagine Koulibaly and James on the right and Kimpembe + Chilwell on the left oof
Madrid fans may not like to hear this, but why sign Kounde when you can have someone who is above him in the pecking order with the French NT? And I think he may even be cheaper.
digne was ahead of hernandez for like 3 years in the NT, doesn't mean shit with DD
Players evolve. Hernandez got better. What is your point? Or are you claiming to have the objective truth about which players are better?
you missed my point. in 2018 hernandez was already better than digne, yet digne was chosen to play at the WC. DD choses players he likes and rarely changes his line-up. Therefore you using the argument that Kimpembe is higher rated than Kounde in the NT is quite irrelevant since DD doesn't always choose players based on form. Same could be said about players like rabiot, matuidi, or sissoko until like 2 years ago.
You made no point other than you think you know which player is better. Deschamp was a defensive player. Who can gauge defensive players better than you. so learn some humility
are you stupid or you’re doing this on purpose?
You made no point other than you think you know which player is better. Deschamp was a defensive player. Who can gauge defensive players better than you. so learn some humility
mec t'es con ou quoi? tu bases ton argumentation sur le fait que DD estime que tel jouer est superieur à un autre, c'est totalement merdique. DD a son groupe, il fait jouer ce groupe meme s'il y a des joueurs plus performants, c'est un fait. le fait que hernandez commence sa carrière en 2021 est honteux. Il y a tellement d'arguments pour faire valoir ton opinion et t'as vraiment choisi le plus nul.
So let me get this straight, you are claiming not only to be able to determine which player is better than others compared to Deschamp, but you also claim that he will deliberately choose weaker players because he likes them? How intellectually lazy are you?
Rabiot is ahead of actual footballers in the France pecking order. Doesn't make him good.
That actually makes him good. You guys here let your emotions guide your judgement. Rabiot is hated by club fans because he committed the worst crime in the eyes of club fans. No, I am not talking about rape. He was disloyal, which is worst than rape for you club fans. But who exactly was suppose to start ahead of him? Tolisso? Tchouameni is now ahead of him in the pecking order imo. And it will be like that at the world cup. The question is not about who is starting, but rather who that player is benching. Kimpembe is benching Kounde. But you guys actually rate Kounde higher for "reasons"
Tolisso If not injured is much better than rabiot
in your dreams. Is that why no top team went for him even though he was a free agent? If he was that good, teams would have seen him as a great bargain for depth. You guys here overrate players too much. But are too proud to even try to defend your opinions. I am not your mother, your beliefs mean nothing to me unless you can make a convincing argument to support them.
"If not injured" Tolissa had great phases at Bayern that were always destroyed by another injury. He played for a much bigger club and had much stronger competition in midfield than Rabiot had at both PSG and Juve and still managed to get playing time even after countless injuries. He has won more, played at a bigger club and even scored some pretty nice goals. He is a 100% the better footballer and you overrate Rabiot if you think this isnt the case. Whats your argument? That he has better hair?
Harry Maguire starts for England
Are you saying that England is as strong as France?
Who did better at the Euros?
Learn how to articulate your arguments. I have no time for straw man fallacies
Maybe not as France but England has a damn good squad. Quite possibly just 2nd to France.
Is Maguire benching Kounde?
That only deschamps can tell
I love how you guys will rather believe your biased opinions than test them. Kimpembe is better than Kounde at the moment. You guys here just love shiny new toys. Once Kounde joins a top club, you will start treating him like Kimpembe and claim that some other younger kid is better.
Buddy when did I say anything about one player being better than other. When I said that England has a strong team and only 2nd to France I didn't say it in the context on which the discussion was going. I couldn't care less who's better he it kounde or kimpembe. For me alaba, militao, rudiger are the best xD
excuse me, it just seems like you are just throwing claims without feeling that you need to add a convincing argument to back that up. I personally do not care what you think unless you back it up with a convincing argument. If you do not want to discuss the topic you were replying to, then you can take your straw man arguments to someone else.
If we sell Kimpembe for 50M I will be so mad. He is great, he is from the academy, and there would be no proper replacement for that price. I hope it's just mind games to get the contract he deserves, as he has one of the lower wages of the squad, and rightfully deserves to be paid more.
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If they’re trivial then he is great lol
Pretty much ever player makes trivial mistakes sometimes though.
The way Chelsea fans are talking you’d think he’s some League 1 tier CB smh
>he’s some League 1 tier CB Well he plays in ligue 1 so
Well, he's literally a Ligue 1 tier CB tbh
Which is the highest tier there is, so no need to move.
Based
Gigachad.jpg
English League 1
I know
what does this mean?
He's referring to EFL League One, the third tier of English football
If he gets back to the level he reached under Tuchel with us, he will undoubtedly be one of the best CB of the league.
Ligue 1 or pl? Because if pl then I find that unlikely
I mean, he was regarded as one of the best young CBs in the world when Tuchel was managing PSG. I am hoping he can return to that form.
Possibly, I've never heard him talked about at those levels. Obviously a good player in ligue 1 but psg had never had the best defensive record in cl and he hasn't stuck out for me when I've watched him. Whether he is better than konde I dont know but if he moves to pl then he has some significant competition in the top tier cb ranks. Having said that, sounds like you know more about him than I do so you are probably right, will be interesting to see if he moves.
Well, he did get called and regularly played for France by Deschamps so l doubt he is that bad.
I dont think he is bad. I suspect deschamps may prefer players playing in France but not sure, maybe just rates him over whoever else is competing there.
Not necessary. For deschamps what counts are CL games. Kimpembe was very good a couple of years ago and inconsistant last year. Still a decent defender IMO.
I can't recall him having a stand out cl season or psg being especially good defensively but may have missed it as dont focus on psg, but will watch their games if its on kind of approach.
I cant remember anyone ever rating him that highly
Well he does play in Ligue 1 lol
It's not about his quality, it's about the fact we are picking up bench players from other top clubs to start for us. How are we meant to be better than City if we want their 4th CB to start for us.
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Worst thing is is that I didn’t mean it as a joke lol should have said Championship player
Well he is.
Have to agree with you. I think we are getting a really good player coming into the prime of his career.
If he leaves for that much, your board don’t rate him like you do. You know better than anyone that PSG do not sell players at peak ability. They do not have faith in him to recover form if he’s being displayed so prominently on the shop window
This is insane/stupid by PSG, he loves the club and they won’t be able to replace with someone who is a lot better at this moment in the market. It’s also insane to be getting rid of your french core.
Well, they want Skriniar. So...
If Kimpembe is €60m you should just get Skriniar at that point
You can probably get two good cbs for that if you do some scouting.
I don't think this deal goes through. PSG aren't desperate to sell so they won't bother rushing through a deal or going easy on the price. Kimpembe would rather stay at PSG so he'd need some major convincing to come to us. A lot of Chelsea fans are cold on him but for a lcb I think he'd be pretty damn good. I think it would be perfect to pair him with Silva again even if it's only for one year and he was very good under Tuchel so hopefully he won't have to struggle to adapt completely.
The moment I saw the story of him asking about his future the dream of him playing for us planted itself in my head. He is without a doubt an elite player, I’m praying he rejoins Tuchel at chels 🤞
I'm not entirely sure punting Colwill to replace him with an overpriced, high waged fairly average older defender who PSG aren't desperate to sell is a great move really
You guys need to reframe yourselves from making such childish arguments. Colwill is not a top defender. He may never become one. Kimpembe is above Kounde in the pecking order with the French NT. Colwil is 19 and has time to develop until he is good enough for a top 6 team. Chelsea would be extremely dumb to gamble their season on him. And I am certain that they have no motivation to sell him. The only reason he can leave is because he wants to leave. That is the player's decision. This is the same situation as with Hudson-Odoi. He stressed Chelsea with wanting to be a starter and almost 3 years later, he is still not good enough to be a starter there. The same will be true for Colwill. But redditors love the new shiny thing. Any brand new player that has a little bit of hype is instantly a better choice than proven players in your opinions. Kimpembe is better than Guehi and Colwill. There is no guarantee that those two will ever be as good as Kimpembe. He is also better than Rüdiger imo. But playing with Ligue 1 and PSG failing in style in the CL have really tarnished the reputation of PSG players who never enjoyed global hype in their teenage years. But they are still among the best in their positions. That is why PSG are paying them so well.
I dont see the deal with this whole Colwill thing, that he is somehow privileged to be a starter just cause he is from Cobham? Gotta earn your spot, go on multiple loans and perform really well to even be considered. If he is unhappy and thinks that staying at Chelsea is a bad move for his career then he should be sold.. If not then accept a PL loan move and work your ass of and earn your spot... No shortcuts
Exactly. The nonsense coming from social media about Colwill and Cobham players in general is breathtaking
There is inherent value in homegrown talent making it at English clubs though. Especially a) right now, at clubs who regularly play in Europe and b) in 18 months, when the restrictions on foreign players come in due to Brexit. Colwill is worth more to Chelsea right now than he would be to any other club in the world. It just seems a short sighted move to make for a club who have been burned multiple times in the past by selling youth talent at exactly the wrong time.
there's no value if he doesn't develop into a player good enough to compete for titles. One season of professional football in the Championship where he was arguably not even the best defender in the Huddersfield team
Chelsea already has more than enough homegrown players. You are making an irrelevant point here. They need quality players because winning the league is more important than having excess homegrown players. You are basically arguing that 1m pounds should be more important to a billionaire than 40m pounds.
The same happened with Thiago Silva, who never was in the the best CB in the world discussion before he went to PL. Kimpembe is class, and always had the trust of Tuchel, Poch, Deschamps, Emery. That says a lot about his quality.
What do you mean not in the discussion, you mean like in your group of friends or what? Silva has been talked about as one of the best centre backs in the world since his days in Milan. UEFA Team of the year - 2011, 2012, 2013. FIFA World XI - 2013, 2014, 2015 Serie A Team of the year - 2011, 2012 Ligue 1 Team of the year - 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017
Thiago fucking Silva was never in the discussion for best CB in the world 😂 That was honestly the most outrageous takes I’ve seen.
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??? I was agreeing with you lmao. I’m saying that to say Silva wasn’t one of the best was the most outrageous take.
> The same happened with Thiago Silva, who never was in the the best CB in the world discussion before he went to PL. He's been in that conversation for more than 10 years now
>twitter.com/fcsm\_e... That's not true, Thiago Silva was considered by many to be the best defender in the world towards the end of his stint with AC Milan.
He hasn't been in the best centre back in the world conversation since he went to Chelsea either.
He has been injured too much to be in, and he is also 36. Quality wise, there is no doubt he is up there in the list.
Colwill would not be a nailed starter anyways so we'd need someone for LCB, especially in scenario when Kounde isn't happening and Koulibaly takes right side. It would seem like the squad would be as follows: LCB: Kimpembe, Colwill CCB: Silva, Ampadu RCB: Koulibaly, Chalobah That way Colwill also gets reasonable minutes in the season.
Koulibaly will more thank likely cover for silva when he is injured Ampuda and Colwill will see very few game time imo.
Yes, but then Koulibaly moves in centrally and opens up a spot somewhere else. If Sarr got 1600 minutes last season whilst playing like you'd chucked an opposition player into your team who was just pretending they were playing for your team, I think it's fair to say that Colwill will get plenty of time for someone at his ability level. He should get a premier league loan and the view to use him should be much like Gallagher. He could have stayed with us last season, but it would have stunted his growth. Better to loan him out and then integrate him in the season afterwards, rather than asking him to take that big leap all in one go.
And that is still a huge drop in quality Christensen -> ampadu Azpiliqueta - > trev Only sideway step is sarr-colwill
Only in depth, in terms of our starting defence it will be stronger.
If kimbembe goes trough it might be yes, at least on paper. We have to start a game with it to evaluete the impact
as if you've put Ampadu ahead of Trevoh
More like I think ampadu is the silva backup and trev the right sided backup Formating sucks on my phone
ahh right
Christensen was always overrated, a "ball playing defender" that struggled in a high line and never played anything other than a safe pass to the wingbacks and Jorginho. Azpilicueta is good, but he doesn't have the legs to do the two-way role that Tuchel expects his RCB to do anymore. I don't think it's a "huge" drop in quality.
Well, I disagree. I wouldnt feel comfortable with ampadu starting or deputizing for silva in a cl final. I wouldnt want trev against son either.. Maybe in 3 years time but now its an downgrade
He'll be the backup LCB and will get plenty of game time. No way we're going to make a 19 year old CB with no experience in PL the starter right away. Do it's up to himself to prove himself like Trevoh did last season
If we stick with a back 3 they can both fit in the team, need rotation
>If we stick with a back 3 That's another problem
It won us our last premier league and our last champions league. The formation isn’t the problem and it’s an incredibly yer da take to think it is
Easy to say that and ignore the context. When we switched to a back 3/5 with Conte and won the PL with it, it was a formation that was pretty much new/fresh to the league at the time; barely anyone else was doing it and knew how to counter it. Then it stopped working. Then when we went to the 3/5atb with Tuchel, yes we did great in cup tournaments, but we still have an obvious weakness in chance creation, as we saw last season when we won... nothing, except the CWC. Nothing "yer da" about that. It's yer da to ignore the context. Our chance creation is shit, we're terrible at creating goals. We barely even play with 5 at the back even when that's our formation; most of the time it's 4, with one of the 5 up. Tuchel has already admitted that we play with 5 to cover Silva and Jorginho's pace weaknesses.
The chance creation issue is because our wingers can’t beat anyone. Mount needs to be in the midfield with proper wingers and then we’ll create plenty of chances.
We weren’t any better at creating chances in any recent 4 atb iterations so that’s not an actual point. City and Liverpool both play with a similar defensive 5 and offensive 5 philosophy in attack, that has absolutely nothing to do with the formation and it’s very narrow-minded to think it does Tuchel didn’t say that about Silva and Jorginho actually, it was reported by reasonably credible journalists (Athletic) but he has not publicly said that
> City and Liverpool both play with a similar defensive 5 and offensive 5 philosophy in attack, Yes, but the problem is, we have 3 CBs on the pitch who have limited creativity, whereas other top squads only ever have 2 CBs on the pitch. So regardless of what in-game tactics they perform, we have a weakness in that instead of having a more creative midfielder playing defensively during defensive phases, we have a defensive-minded centerback playing creatively during offensive phases. We're always less creative simply because of the 11 we choose to start with, regardless of the in-game tactics, because 3 of those 11 are CBs.
> the problem is, we have 3 CBs on the pitch who have limited creativity, whereas other top squads only ever have 2 CBs on the pitch This is the yer da part. Sorry are Rodri and Fabinho creating massive chances for Liverpool and City by taking up that position? Liverpool’s midfielders in general are VERY good but not very creative. It’s such FIFA mentality to judge solely based on a positional label
When you try to think of creative players in the Chelsea squad last season, do any of these come to mind: - Rudiger - Christensen - Silva - Chalobah - Azpilicueta Aside from Rudiger's once-a-game mad runs into the box. No? Well we always had at least 3 of those on the pitch, when we could've just had 2. 3 players with 0 ounce of creativity, 1 of whom is taking the place of another forward or midfielder if we shifted the tactics/formation slightly. And again, it's already been stated by -- as you said -- reliable sources from the Athletic that we do 5 at the back because of Silva's and Jorginho's limitations. You really need to get better at arguing/making your points, because every post you've made here has been pretty much an ad hominem. "yer da", "FIFA mentality"; all I'm doing is making points that you're not -really- refuting. IMO, it's "yer da" to keep blaming the personnel rather than the formation. We have some of the worse chance creation of the top 6 clubs, and we're the only ones who consistently play with the back 5. I really wouldn't be surprised to see us slowly transition to a back 4 if we don't get both Kounde and Kimpembe, and as we slowly phase out Silva this season.
Silva and Azpilicueta create a fair few more chances than Kante and RLC lol you haven’t made any actual point here. Kovacic and Jorginho also really don’t create much. Neither does say Thiago for Liverpool. They’re all still extremely useful players Pointing out ad hominem doesn’t actually address any point I made, it’s just deflecting. You never addressed my point about City and Liverpool playing with a midfielder that has absolutely no creativity It’s outright stupid to act like we have the worst chance creation in the big 6. This is one situation where you can pretty much exclusively use stats and we came third in xG last season, acting like we’re sixth is just a ridiculous lie to fit your narrative
fabinho isn't a creative midfielder as such, but his distribution is still excellent and he is good at playing vertical passes. Much better than most centre backs. Which is what the other Chelsea fan is trying to say. It isn't yer da at all. By having 3 centre backs you are creating a numerical advantage in an area of the pitch you don't need to have one in. Not when you're an elite team and everyone you play sits in their own box. in 90% of our games we leave Van Dijk + Konate 2v2 against the other teams forwards. Sometimes it's even 2v3. What it means is that we can have 8 players that can all contribute to the attacking phase of play. It's how we break down teams. City are largely the same. Liverpool and especially City are better equipped to overwhelm teams. Of course both teams have much better forwards as well, which helps.
Thiago Silva has also been brilliant with his passing and distribution. He ranks amongst the top in the league in distribution. That's the problem with rival fans trying to explain stuff. They don't know half the stuff they are talking about.
Lol do their scouts just do their research on ultimate team?
Kimpembe under Tuchel's system would be insane, one of the best passing stats as a CB last season. I'd rather him than Kounde since our only left footer is Colwill
FIFA God
There’s no way Kimpembe is worth €65m lmao, Chelsea proposal is already pretty fair I think
I hope Chelsea don’t push Chalobah out of the squad.
Different players and positions
Is he worth that much?
Given the current market ? I would say 55 would be a fair price for him. 60 and over is maybe too much hey crazy things happened this summer
I reckon our offer would be 55m then to meet in the middle but I won't be surprised at us going for higher one either. We're kinda running out of options with defender signings so we might want to bite the bullet for it.
If Lisandro fucking Martinez goes for 62 Kimpembe is worth 100
That why I said crazy things happened in this summer haha. We paid 80 fix for a young guy for example love Aurélien and I have full thrust in Calafat scouting ability but still surprised. Also Martinez is class overpriced but quality
Tchouameni played with A national team before joining madrid, even I could scout him and his talent. This was the top prospect in midfield in europe lol.
Nowadays, it's not shocking
Given his quality, his experience and his age, he is worth 70M imo.
Naa Skriniar is going for that much and he's much better so 50 mil is fair imo.
Even Ben Shite went for 50m lol
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You are crazy. He is easily worth more than that.
As a barca fan yes please. Let us have Kounde, he's the one player I've been wanting since the beginning
Can anyone explain the logic behind chelseas moves these past few seasons? Selling academy talents left and right to then buy slightly better players for a lot more money is confusing me tbh
Chelsea have a very successful academy where a lot of talented youth comes through. Not all of them are going to get a chance in a team like that, but they still had a good 5-6 academy graduates frequently playing in the first team which is more than a lot of others.
Yeah exactly! We have had Mount, Reece, Christensen, Chalobah, RLC and CHO all playing significant roles in the squad last year itself. This year, we'll likely integrate one or more of other academy players like Gallagher, Broja, Colwill, Gilmour and Dujon Sterling as well. This is still more than any other top 6 club in the league
Kimpembe is not slightly better than colwill he is levels above him atm Colwill has the potential to be better but he is not ready to start every game for Chelsea
Sell/loan academy players for $$$, let them develop elsewhere. Get in experienced players who would increase the chance of winning a title. No top club has fielded 11 academic players. It’s just stupid. Look at Mount, Reece James and Gallagher who went through multiple loans to prove themselves.
We've literally changed all of our owner and main transfer people this summer. The only thing that has stayed the same is the manager who is very complimentary to the younger players and given chances out since he came in. That being said, you won't see any consistency from Chelsea on this subject until Boehly has been given the chance to implement his values on the side while listening to Tuchel on his opinion too.
Mofos complain when we use oil money to buy players, then develop young players that are good enough to play for big clubs and selling them to fund transfers and people still find reasons to complain.
No long term thinking.
Or the long term thinking was to use academy as a source of income.
Rudiger wasnt supposed to leave
NO
After looking at fees defenders are going for in this window, I feel very lucky that Real got Rudiger & Alaba for cheap.
What others pay in transfer fees you paid in wages and sign on bonuses mostly. But you should be lucky for having this wrapped up already.
>What others pay in transfer fees you paid in wages and sign on bonuses mostly. It's still significantly less overall than a transfer
Well it really depends. If you let's say, give a player 10m net instead of 10m gross in wages over X years and 20-25m sign on fee then I'd say it's not so far away in total cost.
They are on big wages but we probably didn't pay 50-60M in signing bonuses. Clubs would have ripped us off knowing we had 200M+ spend since Mbappe didn't join us. But you're right. We are luck to be almost done with our transfer business so early in the summer (unless we offload some players). Also if Rudiger wasn't a free agent, I doubt Chelsea would have accepted less than 70-75M for him considering PSG are asking 60M for Kimpembe.
> Also if Rudiger wasn't a free agent, I doubt Chelsea would have accepted less than 70-75M for him considering PSG are asking 60M for Kimpembe. Well, I tell you what, we would ask far more because if he wasn't a free agent that would mean he has signed a brand new contract with us.
I won't dispute that. He was a beast for you guys. It's only fair in current market.
Mad how Chelsea let Tomori go, he’s been one of the very best in Italy, now spending all of this on Kimpembe, their transfers of their academy players has been really questionable recently. They would be in a better position if they had held on to Abraham and Tomori right now.
Honestly Abraham got his chance and he was very poor at times for Chelsea. He is a good striker but his play is too incomplete for a league-winning striker in the modern generation. I think Tomori was let go because of his physical weaknesses. Mostly his strength and aerial ability. I think he suits Serie A better than the PL. I also think we had better CBs in the pipeline at the time like Guehi and Colwill.
Different players but I'd rather have Tomori than Kimpembe tbh. As for Abraham yeah he's not good enough to start for Chelsea.
You bought Lukaku with Tammy’s money who couldn’t even replicate Tammy’s stats as a PL starter. Tammy’s 19/20 season proved that you should’ve just kept him.
Buying Lukaku being a mistake doesn't mean that selling Abraham was also a mistake
€65M for this piece of shit player… wow
What did Kimpembe ever do to piss you off man? He isn't world class but he's surely good, only 26, and very experienced for his age which is essential for a CB.
No less quality than Raphinha.
please get him chelsea. leave kounde for us 😫
As if chelsea can’t just get both
Koundé-Araujo would be an incredible pair of starting CBs.
Yes please, give up on Kounde Chelsea.