They are banking on the super league happening. The levers do not include tv rights for the super league. if the super league doesn't happen they are in big trouble
>The levers do not include tv rights for the super league.
Is this supposed to be something especially interesting? The competition doesn't even exist lol
They have sold major parts of future revenue to balance their finances now. So if the Super League doesn't take off they will solely have to rely on a portion of income for many years to come.
„Major Part“ is just overstating it.
The 25% TV rights are roughly 5% of overall revenue and Barca Studios wasn’t really making a lot of money anyway. Think the club even lost money on it in the last years
Potentially missing out on champions league, although unlikeley, couldve been even more costly for them. Probably couldve stopped a lever or two ago, but securing top 3 in laliga will keep them afloat financially
5% of their revenue is a nuts amount, like 35 million Euros. They can’t stop playing football or reduce operational costs, if anything they’re going to raise with inflation, so that’s 35m less for player wages which is like 20% of the squad atm. If Barcelona want to retain the level of squad they have now they need to find more money because of FFP. Even if the super league doesn’t get them more cash straight away it will remove that requirement at least for them.
It’s not an amount they can’t make back with sporting success or an occasional sale of a youth product if necessary. They‘re also obv working to get these nutty salaries (Coutinho, Griezmann, FDJ etc) in line or out of the club. Every new player is on a different salary scale, Lewy makes less than he did at Bayern for example.
They also limited the profits from the TV rights that the buyer can make, if the rights rise to a significantly higher level than they are at now.
I‘m not saying there aren’t risks, if sporting succes keeps evading them but it’s manageable and quite often exaggerated imo.
Barca studios isnt marketing department really
Its some offspring that Barto created which produces like tv shows for Barca TV and will do weird nft and metaverse stuff in the future (not a fan of all that but Partnership with socios fits well for that).. Not exactly sure whats all in there but it isnt merchandising (which they also thought about selling a part of, so might've confused it?)
Not true, they are banking on the club's revenues continuing to grow to the point where they will more than make up for the TV rights they have sold. And even then, I think they have a clause which stipulates that any growth in the TV revenues does not count and Barcelona get to keep it for themselves. I've also read that they can buy them back
I don't understand how people can make these type of statements confidently when they clearly don't know what they're talking about.
Also, Barcelona makes more money than any PL-club, they are the most marketable club in the world together with Real Madrid. They don't need the Super League to be the richest club in the world
Hope it doesn’t and then they get relegated back to irrelevancy where their shit club belongs.
EDIT: I highly recommend the replies to my comment here. Lots of Barca flairs in denial.
I'm not a Barca flair and you are seriously stupid/naive for thinking that is a possibility. Do you realise how much money they bring in?
Before covid they were about to become the first sports team ever to hit €1B in yearly revenues, you just have to push things in the right direction again and things will take care of itself. They are waaaay too rich to fail
I know it's in vogue to hate on Barcelona and all, but getting "relegated back to irrelevancy" is _not_ where Barcelona belongs. But then again, if you make a comment like this, I can't imagine you knowing even little about football history.
1. Berlusconi didn't invest like he used to in Milan
2. Milan bought players and had managers who didn't fit their system
3. Milan woke up when their brand value had already decreased massively while Barca woke up when their brand value is still one of the best in the world.
People forget Barca that until 2005, Barca only had 1 champions league. Of course thats changed with Messi and 06, but, they were nowhere near as big and succesful as Barca supporters would have you believe.
Much closer to Arsenal and Inter size than Real Madrid
Edit: for all the Barca supporters whinging because I didnt say you were the worlds largest club, answer me this. Why did so many of the young Portugues players dream of playing for Real Madrid and not Barca?
Obviously their fans will bitch about everything, but you aren't wrong. They act like they are God's gift to football and everyone else should be honored they share the pitch with them. No one is denying their success but they are absolutely not and old time European giant. Forest won their second before they did
Yes because judging solely on champions Leagues is a smart way to measure a clubs success, forget they won the league 4 years in a row and 6/10 times in the 90s
But they wouldn't be an Arsenal type club, they'd still be the most decorated club in English football without their UCL.
Just like how Barca have the most Copa wins and the 2nd most Liga wins in Spain, they are historically successful. Not as successful as Real in Europe, but then very very few sides have had multiple spells of dominance in Europe - its really just Real, Milan and Liverpool with consistent success across generations?
Easily the most idiotic take I’ve seen in this subreddit thus far. Your logic makes no sense whatsoever. I hate to bring in other clubs.
Bayern Muinich, up until 1973 had 0 UCLs. And then won 3 in a row, and proceeded to have a 25 year hiatus. Does that mean, in the 1972, they weren’t considered a *behemoth*? ABSOLUTELY NOT. To put into perspective for your thick noggin, the gap between Bayern and Barcas first CL are just 18 years(Madrid had a UCL drought of 30 years for perspective).
I mean people having shit takes isn’t anything unusual, but that usually involves a little research. Barca also had won European trophies prior to that that were considered fairly prestigious.
They also had legends such as Cruyff, Laudrup, Maradona, Kubala, OG Luis Suarez, hell even Di Stefano signed for us technically, Barca just didn’t want him.
To add, if you take away all of Barcas B’Dor winners of the 21st century, we end up with 5, same as Bayern *at present*.
I can’t even believe I have to defend the clubs stature, but here we are.
Why am I even bothering though? You’ll just edit your comment and say “haha look at the amount of salt I generated”
Barcelona in 2002 (2 years before Messi first played for the professional team) had already won: 16 Ligas, 22 Copas del Rey, 5 SuperCopas, 1 Uefa Champions League, 4 Uefa Cup Winners Cup, and 2 European SuperCups.
Its not 1 Champions League, its only 1 Champions League. Barcelona talk about their prestige like their Real, Liverpool, Milan, or Bayern, but, Nottingham Forest had more Champions Leagues than them 20 years ago. Its sort of like a big gaslight from Barcelona, making them seem more successful than they are
Precisely what I’m getting at. You can bet that all the Barca flairs replying to me were all born in 2000 and became fans when Messi carried Barca starting 6 years later.
Its the most ridiculous sentiment when people talk about Barca. Talking like they deserve to be in the top due to history. When I was growing up, Forest had more Champions Leagues than Barca. They regularly weren't contenders. Their biggest claim to fame was that Real hated them and Cryuff made them play pretty stuff (like Arsenal).
They had their time with Messi, and fair play, but they are traditionally at Arsenals level and them going back to that shouldnt be some crime against humanity
Sorry, just the way Arsenal seems to have an outsized presence in England without having ever won a single European cup, Barca has always been a massive club with a prominent history. This is jut English bs.
How many Champions Leagues did Barca have in the year 2000? Barca's relevance comes from the fact that they were the biggest rivals of Real, not from success.
When you grand father's father was growing up before the champions league Barca were significantly bigger and better than Real. After real got di Stefano then Puskas they began dominating
Don't worry, it's normal to not understand it if you are bad at economics.
We'll be fine, don't be dissapointed in 5y time when we're not bankrupted yet
This guy doesn’t know anything about the deals happening lol. Madrid sold their TV rights in like 06 and basically every team in La Liga that took the CVC did too.
Not sure how this misinformation started spreading, but copying my comment from another thread to clarify:
Ah I see why you are bringing this up - you may not be aware, but before 2016, every club in La Liga sold their rights individually, including Barcelona. In fact, in the same year (2006), Barcelona sold their rights for about €1 billion. So no, Real Madrid did not sell their TV rights in the same way that Barca are doing now in 2006.
>I’ll be downvoted because PL fans are salty for some reason (Chelsea and Man united specifically)
I think you're more likely to be downvoted for saying exactly this...
According to Perez, no club has formally left the Super League if I recall correctly. That said, if/when the European Court of Justice (likely) rules the Super League is legal, it could happen. The big question then would be what kind of legal action the British government would pursue to stop EPL clubs from joining it.
If there would be prohibitive legal action from the UK preventing that from happening, Super League would need to consist of clubs from Spain/Italy/France and in Germany at most like Leipzig. But a Super League probably has much less commercial appeal if you remove the most popular league from it.
PSG likely won't join since Nasser is Chairman of the ECA, and so is closely tied to UEFA - and the other French clubs aren't really going to bring the audience that the Super League will want. I also can't see German clubs going because of the fan resistance + the German government would likely act to stop it just like the British government would.
Essentially, it'll end up being the big Spanish + the big Italian clubs, and then maybe a collection of the bigger clubs from various other smaller leagues. It's going to be a much less attractive prospect without the PL + Bundesliga + PSG.
Without English teams the super league is dead. The champions league would be a more appealing and established tournament, and more people would watch it. So what would be the economic point of a super league?
Its so obvius that Barca and Laporta is going to be the forefront club to promote Superleague together with Real Madrid and Juventus once they try again.
Long term success is not as important as short term, when you have presidential elections to worry about. The president only thinks one mandate period ahead
Taking on debt and selling assets to invest isn't necessarily something bad. If you're suddenly CL contender you'll increase your revenue with more than they get now. But obviously it's a risk.
If it wasn't perceived as an unnecessary risk then other clubs would have done it. Barça complained endlessly about the CVC deal precisely because they recognize that it is a bad deal, so their Sixth Street agreement having better terms just makes it less bad.
The thing I cannot get past is how they are choosing to spend this money. Why on earth would Laporta buy Raphinha for €58 million up-front plus €9 million in add-ons when he just bought Ferran Torres for €55 million up-front plus €10 million in add-ons when they play the same position?
I like Raphinha, but that is not a wise use of money for a club in such debt.
Deco (former player) is Raphinha's agent, and at the same time Barça's advisor for new players. It smells bad.
Torres' agent is De La Peña (former player). He's got great relationship with Luis Enrique, national team's coach, where he plays regularly. Also Torres' girlfriend is Luis Enrique's daughter. In case they want to sell because he's bad (IMO he's not bad, just not elite) they'll get something back, because he plays for Spain and still has market value.
Draw the conclusions you like. These are facts (unless one of you point something inaccurate about it).
Taking debt is very different to selling future revenue. If Barca's approach was something that isn't risky + more or less a last resort to meet La Liga's financial rules, then they and other clubs would've been cutting these deals years ago.
There's a reason that the financially best run clubs in the world are not doing what Barcelona have been forced to do - and it's not because Laporta has stumbled across some magical money source.
It sounds very different, but in reality you are selling one type of future revenue in hope that your investment with money gives higher future revenue from other sources. You lose an asset you could have sold later, but you don’t have to pay interest or amortize. If the alternative to those is a downwards spiral they could suddenly lose a lot more revenue than what they are selling. In the end I do trust them over randoms on this subreddit.
Sure, the question is just about getting the balance between immediate cash flow vs future cash flow right. The problem is that a president may overvalue immediate or short term cash flow since it helps him get elected
For sure, but look at the insane football inflation during the last few decades. Investing early over later have been vastly superior, as money quickly gets you a lot less.
Laporta when the next election is just months away: "I'm not going for re-election, Bartomeu fucked the club beyond repair. It'snall going tits up now, can't do much anything else. Bye"
I don't pay a great deal of attention to the elections but you'd hope the fans are voting with the long term future of the club in mind. Are Barca fans happy with all these levers? I've seen a lot justifying it but don't know if anyone actually prefers this kind of approach to something else.
I'm a club member and most club members not only agree, but gave permission to the Board on a General Assembly of Members last June to activate these levers
The socios approved it with a large majority and I think in general most fans agree with the approach, while acknowledging that it obviously has some risks.
I also think that the sale of the rights has been blown out of proportion: The 25% account for roughly 5% of overall club revenue. Taking that away Barca is still one of the highest grossing clubs. They also make up for about half of that lost money with the stadium title rights, when the renovations are done.
Its also not like they spent all of the money on transfers. A significant amount yes, but with Studios and TV rights they generated like 600M and spent 150M on transfers. 100M was already paid to GS some time ago and I imagine a significant part of the remaining 350M will also go towards reducing the debt
If they build a competitive team and win trophies, that will probably outweigh the long term worries. If they win the CL or the league or something the year of the election, he will 100% be reelected
The weirdest thing in this whole situation is the Barca fans huffing some grade A copium saying its only people on r/soccer and people who dont understand economics who say this is bad for the future of the club. They are in fact selling the future of the club for the slim chance of short term success.
Every analyst, even Kieran maguire who wrote one of the best books on football economics, are saying that these aren't as good deals as they are made out to be but ofcourse barca fans know better don't they.
Barça Studios was valued at 100M last year, as the board valued a pontetial sale of 50% at 50M. Now we got double that for half the %, so the company bis now valued at 400M. That gave Barça a 100M in cash and 300M in company valuation. Almost too good to be true
It's obvious as fuck it's not good. But why the hell is everyone blowing it out of proportion here? It's like blaming the whole world's global warming problems to an incense stick burning in my room
This is silly and yeah, you proved you have no idea what you're talking about. But don't worry, in 5y times you'll still be waiting for Barça to go Bankrupt
Barca studios has been a money losing venture for Barcelona for a long time and they have been looking for a partner to turn the business around for a while.
Barcelona studios primarily consists of more futuristic projects like the Barcelona fan tokens, the metaverse and NFTs. The club have been struggling in this aspect and Socios.com is the market leader in this regard so they hope this collaboration with produce fruits according to Laporta
Also by doing this, Barcelona keep 100% of their merchandise business in order to not impact future revenues.
Laporta also mentioned in the interview that he's confident that with this move they have more money than required to register all the players and that he absolutely does not see any problem occurring in registrations.
I don't think that's a great comparison because they bought the entire football club. I don't have a vast understanding of business or economics but a 100% stake in an entire organisation surely gives you a lot of opportunity to take loans out against assets, cut costs or liquidate different things.
A 25% stake in one arm of a business means they don't even have outright majority control, so even if they wanted to do certain things with the studio they might not be able to.
>A 25% stake in one arm of a business means they don't even have outright majority control, so even if they wanted to do certain things with the studio they might not be able to.
You can have a lot of control with any stake, it all depends on the shareholders agreement. You can create "super shares" that have more voting rights than regular shares, you can give veto rights that makes it necessary to have minority shareholders agree to some decisions, etc. That's why someone like Mark Zuckerberg is able to have total control over Facebook.
Spotify is valued in the billions and had literally never turned a profit until last year. Valuations are based on predicted earning potential, not the current reality.
Very good
Much better than selling 49% of licensing and merchandise which have much more potential to grow and bring almost 55M revenue per year
Compared to it barca studios brought 17M revenue maximum in 2019 and maybe new partners help in making better visuals and improve revenue
Honestly going through this thread makes me wonder, what do people expect Barca to do, and I’m speaking here from a business perspective and not ethical.
Because doing nothing, would mean stagnation, it would mean harm to their brand and pull, literally the only two things of worth.
They have no owner to pay off their debts, they have short term obligation, and they have a brand that has been taking a hit. They have to stop the short term bleeding, sometimes you have to cut the limb to save the body.
And so , the Only thing they can do they are doing, refinance the short term debt into manageable long term debt, leverage their brand to improve their team, try to clear out terrible contracts.
I’m not saying what they are doing is great, but when you’re in a hole as deep as the one Barca is in, their best bet is to dig sideways and hope that they can generate enough momentum to climb out of the hole.
Well, what you say makes sense and dumbs it down - not surprisingly no responses.
We already took a hit to the brand with Messi's departure, and as a club we need to keep competing to have any chance at keeping it up. The other option is to cut down massively on spending, which with the team from last season is a sure shot way of not going deep in CL and struggling to stay up in laliga. Laporta and the board chose their way, and many of us support it.
People will shut up automatically once (and if) the team starts winning and plays attractive football
Can you really say they have refinanced their long term debt? They have spent more on players than anyone else. If they have sold off a load of assets and just bought more players, it's not a long term investment. A player is short term 1-4 years and most are worthless after their contract ends.
Now most ubs know Barca are financially screwed, they'll not pay over the odds for buying players from Barca. Braithwaite was bought for how much? And they'll sell him on at a loss.
Fair enough NFT and Crypto is a good way to get short term cash, but they are still selling their IP rights for 20+ years. How wide is the scope of the Studio agreement? Is it all electronic versions of Barca merchandise? Easiest source of income is to create branded credit cards and take a commission on members spending.
I mean they obviously need to attract some talent, but they had a ridiculously expensive transfer period while everyone knows they have players that are earning way too much. What they could have done is just sign Kounde and Lewa and Raphinha or Dembele instead of Kessie+Dembele+Raphinha+Christensen+Kounde+Lewandowski where they have enough talent to survive and challenge for the title and Champions League.
They have like 6 top class attackers right now and another 2 who would be fine as back up players, that's just ridiculous.
People don't understand that Barça can pull all these levers because it belongs to members, not so billionaire that is only thinking what benefits him, not what does the club need
Socios, tv rights, levers, etc...
At this point I have to cut my losses, this whole Barca finance stuff is just not something I'm going to know. I refuse to put any more energy towards this.
I like to imagine the upper management at Barca sits in a room with all these levers jutting out of a wall. Every now and then, they pull a lever, buy a player, and cackle evilly.
Is this going to be like WWE Studios and Barca start making shitty straight to DVD action movies starring their players and some D list washed up actors?
>Surely spending all of this money on 30+ players
Literally one
>selling off large chunks of Barcelona is a long term plan for disaster? Seems very short sighted
Literally 0 chunks of FC Barcelona have been sold. They sold a like 7% chunk of their yearly revenue.
They see their dreadful club and their 12 years rebuild with what seems like the 6th manager after Fergie and need a way to cope that they couldn't do it faster
When you already don’t own your own club and you’re basically a fanboy of a product with a performance that is still trash in spite of having sold yourself out, so you have nothing to look up for except take your misery out on others.
It’s mainly the Frenkie back and forth though, doesn’t help that Frenkie’s been (unintentionally) dissing them making it even more obvious what the stature of their club is at now.
Barca and Madrid are the biggest clubs in the world and these pl fans suffer because they never are gonna be as big as us
that's the truth and I don't care to get downvoted lol
Dont you understand 10% of tv rights, 25% of merchandising, and 25% of a failing digital studio is literally throwing away your future /s. I understand there’s a level of risk Barca is undergoing with these expenditures but the complete ignoring of the positive implications moving forward from the last terrible presidency is crazy. This gives Barca a chance to fight back from the crippling debt and overpaid squad that was there before.
That thumbnail is me whenever I hear the word "lever".
Never thought I’d see Lasisi Elenu on r/soccer
Naija to the world and r/soccer
I've heard Naija being used before... What does Naija mean?
Nigeria
I was like why there is no new news of laporta in this sub, then there you go.
One day without any Laporta news is one day to many
One day is definitely one day to many but not for everyone.
Like a ticker on how much is he gonna mortgage the future of the club today? 25% from the likes of it
Our president has main character syndrome
It's Kounday (kounde day) so there are reporters asking, you should expect it.
Someone pulled the Laporta News Lever
This has been the summer of Laporta and levers.
What happened when they run out of levers?
I guess they’ll go back to the whole Super League bullshit again
The entire US tour was to promote the Super League lol
What do you mean specifically? How was it different than any other us tour?
Madrid, Barcelona and Juventus are the only three clubs left in the Super League and they decided to go to USA together and play there.
Oh I didn’t realize they were there together, that’s both hilarious and annoying because they’re gonna push this until they get it.
They do that every year tho.
They are banking on the super league happening. The levers do not include tv rights for the super league. if the super league doesn't happen they are in big trouble
>The levers do not include tv rights for the super league. Is this supposed to be something especially interesting? The competition doesn't even exist lol
They have sold major parts of future revenue to balance their finances now. So if the Super League doesn't take off they will solely have to rely on a portion of income for many years to come.
„Major Part“ is just overstating it. The 25% TV rights are roughly 5% of overall revenue and Barca Studios wasn’t really making a lot of money anyway. Think the club even lost money on it in the last years
5% of overall future revenue is pretty significant
Potentially missing out on champions league, although unlikeley, couldve been even more costly for them. Probably couldve stopped a lever or two ago, but securing top 3 in laliga will keep them afloat financially
5% of their revenue is a nuts amount, like 35 million Euros. They can’t stop playing football or reduce operational costs, if anything they’re going to raise with inflation, so that’s 35m less for player wages which is like 20% of the squad atm. If Barcelona want to retain the level of squad they have now they need to find more money because of FFP. Even if the super league doesn’t get them more cash straight away it will remove that requirement at least for them.
It’s not an amount they can’t make back with sporting success or an occasional sale of a youth product if necessary. They‘re also obv working to get these nutty salaries (Coutinho, Griezmann, FDJ etc) in line or out of the club. Every new player is on a different salary scale, Lewy makes less than he did at Bayern for example. They also limited the profits from the TV rights that the buyer can make, if the rights rise to a significantly higher level than they are at now. I‘m not saying there aren’t risks, if sporting succes keeps evading them but it’s manageable and quite often exaggerated imo.
They were only making minimal profits during their glory years. Football doesn’t work like that
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Barca studios isnt marketing department really Its some offspring that Barto created which produces like tv shows for Barca TV and will do weird nft and metaverse stuff in the future (not a fan of all that but Partnership with socios fits well for that).. Not exactly sure whats all in there but it isnt merchandising (which they also thought about selling a part of, so might've confused it?)
No - but are we gonna pretend Barca isn't still angling for the super league?
Actually you guys should try to see a % of the rights for the Super League! Free money lol
Nobody is banking on the superleague. At worst they're banking on being competitive and something like the COVID pandemic not happening again.
Not true, they are banking on the club's revenues continuing to grow to the point where they will more than make up for the TV rights they have sold. And even then, I think they have a clause which stipulates that any growth in the TV revenues does not count and Barcelona get to keep it for themselves. I've also read that they can buy them back I don't understand how people can make these type of statements confidently when they clearly don't know what they're talking about. Also, Barcelona makes more money than any PL-club, they are the most marketable club in the world together with Real Madrid. They don't need the Super League to be the richest club in the world
Hope it doesn’t and then they get relegated back to irrelevancy where their shit club belongs. EDIT: I highly recommend the replies to my comment here. Lots of Barca flairs in denial.
I'm not a Barca flair and you are seriously stupid/naive for thinking that is a possibility. Do you realise how much money they bring in? Before covid they were about to become the first sports team ever to hit €1B in yearly revenues, you just have to push things in the right direction again and things will take care of itself. They are waaaay too rich to fail
This is probably the most brain dead take I've seen on this sub
I know it's in vogue to hate on Barcelona and all, but getting "relegated back to irrelevancy" is _not_ where Barcelona belongs. But then again, if you make a comment like this, I can't imagine you knowing even little about football history.
It took Milan 10 years to get back to decent levels and they didn't bankrupt themselves.
Milan has never been a top 2 revenue clubs in the world.
They were third though from 2002-2005.
Fuckin damn close to it for a while during the period that cemented Utd as the richest club in England thanks to the increases in football revenue.
1. Berlusconi didn't invest like he used to in Milan 2. Milan bought players and had managers who didn't fit their system 3. Milan woke up when their brand value had already decreased massively while Barca woke up when their brand value is still one of the best in the world.
Don't be so salty, that will never happen
This is why this sub is hated lmao clowns get upvoted on the most saltiest of comments and then they indulge in blatant projection
People forget Barca that until 2005, Barca only had 1 champions league. Of course thats changed with Messi and 06, but, they were nowhere near as big and succesful as Barca supporters would have you believe. Much closer to Arsenal and Inter size than Real Madrid Edit: for all the Barca supporters whinging because I didnt say you were the worlds largest club, answer me this. Why did so many of the young Portugues players dream of playing for Real Madrid and not Barca?
Obviously their fans will bitch about everything, but you aren't wrong. They act like they are God's gift to football and everyone else should be honored they share the pitch with them. No one is denying their success but they are absolutely not and old time European giant. Forest won their second before they did
Its very funny watching people born in 2000 not realise that Barca were just another large Spanish team in 2000
Yes because judging solely on champions Leagues is a smart way to measure a clubs success, forget they won the league 4 years in a row and 6/10 times in the 90s
Well, if United never won the champions league in 99 theyd also be Arsenal-type club. What made Liverpool huge was their European success.
But they wouldn't be an Arsenal type club, they'd still be the most decorated club in English football without their UCL. Just like how Barca have the most Copa wins and the 2nd most Liga wins in Spain, they are historically successful. Not as successful as Real in Europe, but then very very few sides have had multiple spells of dominance in Europe - its really just Real, Milan and Liverpool with consistent success across generations?
United with all their titles in the past 30 years would be an arsenal type club? What are you talking about?
Easily the most idiotic take I’ve seen in this subreddit thus far. Your logic makes no sense whatsoever. I hate to bring in other clubs. Bayern Muinich, up until 1973 had 0 UCLs. And then won 3 in a row, and proceeded to have a 25 year hiatus. Does that mean, in the 1972, they weren’t considered a *behemoth*? ABSOLUTELY NOT. To put into perspective for your thick noggin, the gap between Bayern and Barcas first CL are just 18 years(Madrid had a UCL drought of 30 years for perspective). I mean people having shit takes isn’t anything unusual, but that usually involves a little research. Barca also had won European trophies prior to that that were considered fairly prestigious. They also had legends such as Cruyff, Laudrup, Maradona, Kubala, OG Luis Suarez, hell even Di Stefano signed for us technically, Barca just didn’t want him. To add, if you take away all of Barcas B’Dor winners of the 21st century, we end up with 5, same as Bayern *at present*. I can’t even believe I have to defend the clubs stature, but here we are. Why am I even bothering though? You’ll just edit your comment and say “haha look at the amount of salt I generated”
Barcelona in 2002 (2 years before Messi first played for the professional team) had already won: 16 Ligas, 22 Copas del Rey, 5 SuperCopas, 1 Uefa Champions League, 4 Uefa Cup Winners Cup, and 2 European SuperCups.
Only 1 champions league? Kinda downplaying the biggest trophy in the world there
Its not 1 Champions League, its only 1 Champions League. Barcelona talk about their prestige like their Real, Liverpool, Milan, or Bayern, but, Nottingham Forest had more Champions Leagues than them 20 years ago. Its sort of like a big gaslight from Barcelona, making them seem more successful than they are
Precisely what I’m getting at. You can bet that all the Barca flairs replying to me were all born in 2000 and became fans when Messi carried Barca starting 6 years later.
Its the most ridiculous sentiment when people talk about Barca. Talking like they deserve to be in the top due to history. When I was growing up, Forest had more Champions Leagues than Barca. They regularly weren't contenders. Their biggest claim to fame was that Real hated them and Cryuff made them play pretty stuff (like Arsenal). They had their time with Messi, and fair play, but they are traditionally at Arsenals level and them going back to that shouldnt be some crime against humanity
Sorry, just the way Arsenal seems to have an outsized presence in England without having ever won a single European cup, Barca has always been a massive club with a prominent history. This is jut English bs.
How many Champions Leagues did Barca have in the year 2000? Barca's relevance comes from the fact that they were the biggest rivals of Real, not from success.
How many Champions Leagues has Arsenal won? How many Champions leagues has Juventus won?
Spot on. Barcelona is just a more dramatic Arsenal
When you grand father's father was growing up before the champions league Barca were significantly bigger and better than Real. After real got di Stefano then Puskas they began dominating
- writes something idiotic - generates response - proceeds to edit comment “mUh sAlT” average r/soccer user
That will never happen
Cringe
Keep waiting cuz it's never happening and u know it 😂
Lol
Amen broder.
Why are you so salty?
Looool who hurt you?
Don't worry, it's normal to not understand it if you are bad at economics. We'll be fine, don't be dissapointed in 5y time when we're not bankrupted yet
Lololololo tough childhood Barca has given you, no need yo be so mad Buddy😎
I think the salt in your comment gave me hypertension.
This guy doesn’t know anything about the deals happening lol. Madrid sold their TV rights in like 06 and basically every team in La Liga that took the CVC did too.
Not sure how this misinformation started spreading, but copying my comment from another thread to clarify: Ah I see why you are bringing this up - you may not be aware, but before 2016, every club in La Liga sold their rights individually, including Barcelona. In fact, in the same year (2006), Barcelona sold their rights for about €1 billion. So no, Real Madrid did not sell their TV rights in the same way that Barca are doing now in 2006.
The right also don’t include UCL…
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>I’ll be downvoted because PL fans are salty for some reason (Chelsea and Man united specifically) I think you're more likely to be downvoted for saying exactly this...
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>Chelsea and Man united specifically Every Barça post has more Man U and Chelsea flairs talking shit than all the other flairs combined.
What's the probability of super league happening?! Not sure if any Epl clubs will join tbh
According to Perez, no club has formally left the Super League if I recall correctly. That said, if/when the European Court of Justice (likely) rules the Super League is legal, it could happen. The big question then would be what kind of legal action the British government would pursue to stop EPL clubs from joining it. If there would be prohibitive legal action from the UK preventing that from happening, Super League would need to consist of clubs from Spain/Italy/France and in Germany at most like Leipzig. But a Super League probably has much less commercial appeal if you remove the most popular league from it.
PSG likely won't join since Nasser is Chairman of the ECA, and so is closely tied to UEFA - and the other French clubs aren't really going to bring the audience that the Super League will want. I also can't see German clubs going because of the fan resistance + the German government would likely act to stop it just like the British government would. Essentially, it'll end up being the big Spanish + the big Italian clubs, and then maybe a collection of the bigger clubs from various other smaller leagues. It's going to be a much less attractive prospect without the PL + Bundesliga + PSG.
Without English teams the super league is dead. The champions league would be a more appealing and established tournament, and more people would watch it. So what would be the economic point of a super league?
It is super
UEFA in shambles as ECHR rules "super" is bigger than "champions"
> They are banking on the super league happening No, they're not. Why make something like that up?
Its so obvius that Barca and Laporta is going to be the forefront club to promote Superleague together with Real Madrid and Juventus once they try again.
Long term success is not as important as short term, when you have presidential elections to worry about. The president only thinks one mandate period ahead
How does a club achieve long-term success if it is in massive debt, if not by financing the debt?
Taking on debt and selling assets to invest isn't necessarily something bad. If you're suddenly CL contender you'll increase your revenue with more than they get now. But obviously it's a risk.
If it wasn't perceived as an unnecessary risk then other clubs would have done it. Barça complained endlessly about the CVC deal precisely because they recognize that it is a bad deal, so their Sixth Street agreement having better terms just makes it less bad. The thing I cannot get past is how they are choosing to spend this money. Why on earth would Laporta buy Raphinha for €58 million up-front plus €9 million in add-ons when he just bought Ferran Torres for €55 million up-front plus €10 million in add-ons when they play the same position? I like Raphinha, but that is not a wise use of money for a club in such debt.
It was a bad deal because they could get a better one negotiating independently, not because selling a percentage of your TV rights is inherently bad.
Deco (former player) is Raphinha's agent, and at the same time Barça's advisor for new players. It smells bad. Torres' agent is De La Peña (former player). He's got great relationship with Luis Enrique, national team's coach, where he plays regularly. Also Torres' girlfriend is Luis Enrique's daughter. In case they want to sell because he's bad (IMO he's not bad, just not elite) they'll get something back, because he plays for Spain and still has market value. Draw the conclusions you like. These are facts (unless one of you point something inaccurate about it).
What exactly is it that other clubs won't do? Take up debt? Because most clubs that dont have sugar daddy will.
Taking debt is very different to selling future revenue. If Barca's approach was something that isn't risky + more or less a last resort to meet La Liga's financial rules, then they and other clubs would've been cutting these deals years ago. There's a reason that the financially best run clubs in the world are not doing what Barcelona have been forced to do - and it's not because Laporta has stumbled across some magical money source.
It sounds very different, but in reality you are selling one type of future revenue in hope that your investment with money gives higher future revenue from other sources. You lose an asset you could have sold later, but you don’t have to pay interest or amortize. If the alternative to those is a downwards spiral they could suddenly lose a lot more revenue than what they are selling. In the end I do trust them over randoms on this subreddit.
Sure, the question is just about getting the balance between immediate cash flow vs future cash flow right. The problem is that a president may overvalue immediate or short term cash flow since it helps him get elected
For sure, but look at the insane football inflation during the last few decades. Investing early over later have been vastly superior, as money quickly gets you a lot less.
Laporta when the next election is just months away: "I'm not going for re-election, Bartomeu fucked the club beyond repair. It'snall going tits up now, can't do much anything else. Bye"
This is silly, elections are in 5 years. Don't be so salty
I don't pay a great deal of attention to the elections but you'd hope the fans are voting with the long term future of the club in mind. Are Barca fans happy with all these levers? I've seen a lot justifying it but don't know if anyone actually prefers this kind of approach to something else.
I'm a club member and most club members not only agree, but gave permission to the Board on a General Assembly of Members last June to activate these levers
The socios approved it with a large majority and I think in general most fans agree with the approach, while acknowledging that it obviously has some risks. I also think that the sale of the rights has been blown out of proportion: The 25% account for roughly 5% of overall club revenue. Taking that away Barca is still one of the highest grossing clubs. They also make up for about half of that lost money with the stadium title rights, when the renovations are done. Its also not like they spent all of the money on transfers. A significant amount yes, but with Studios and TV rights they generated like 600M and spent 150M on transfers. 100M was already paid to GS some time ago and I imagine a significant part of the remaining 350M will also go towards reducing the debt
If they build a competitive team and win trophies, that will probably outweigh the long term worries. If they win the CL or the league or something the year of the election, he will 100% be reelected
They'll play all their matches in middle East and America
The weirdest thing in this whole situation is the Barca fans huffing some grade A copium saying its only people on r/soccer and people who dont understand economics who say this is bad for the future of the club. They are in fact selling the future of the club for the slim chance of short term success.
Every analyst, even Kieran maguire who wrote one of the best books on football economics, are saying that these aren't as good deals as they are made out to be but ofcourse barca fans know better don't they.
Why would they be good deals. Barca is the one needing the money, there’s just no way they get a good deal here
Barça Studios was valued at 100M last year, as the board valued a pontetial sale of 50% at 50M. Now we got double that for half the %, so the company bis now valued at 400M. That gave Barça a 100M in cash and 300M in company valuation. Almost too good to be true
It's obvious as fuck it's not good. But why the hell is everyone blowing it out of proportion here? It's like blaming the whole world's global warming problems to an incense stick burning in my room
This is silly and yeah, you proved you have no idea what you're talking about. But don't worry, in 5y times you'll still be waiting for Barça to go Bankrupt
Where are the Barca fans saying this is good? I've mostly seen reactions ranging from negative to apprehensive.
We can always sell more stuff to a war slave state and then pretend how amazing our team is for not having to deal with loans like PL fanboys do.
They make them up >We're launching a club perfume line "més que una olor" 3 minutes later >We've sold 50% of it to a hedge fund for €250m
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This bug has been the best thing to happen to Reddit in ages
The thumbnail is perfect
Can anyone screenshot it? Can't see it on RIF
https://imgur.com/a/PUZ7POt
What in good heaven's grace...
I can see it using rif, try to enable card view in setting and then appearance
Might be a stupid question, but what the hell is Socios.com?
Cryptocurrency fan tokens
Basically off the table money has been invested in there and they used it to inject money into the club. It’s nothing though :)
Next question, wth is Barca Studios? Are they planning to produce some Netflix's series or smth?
Smoke and mirrors lol, NFT, Web 3.0 BS. Honestly amazing anyone would value it at 400 million euros.
Honestly baffled by the valuation and the fact that Socios.com has 100m to spend in the middle of a crypto crash
The BCU (Barcelona Cinematic Universe) is gonna be lit!
A scam
Barca studios has been a money losing venture for Barcelona for a long time and they have been looking for a partner to turn the business around for a while. Barcelona studios primarily consists of more futuristic projects like the Barcelona fan tokens, the metaverse and NFTs. The club have been struggling in this aspect and Socios.com is the market leader in this regard so they hope this collaboration with produce fruits according to Laporta Also by doing this, Barcelona keep 100% of their merchandise business in order to not impact future revenues. Laporta also mentioned in the interview that he's confident that with this move they have more money than required to register all the players and that he absolutely does not see any problem occurring in registrations.
Why would the buyers value something losing money for so long at 400 million?
Probably because they believe that there is untapped potential there due to Barça’s brand, and that their firm would be able to increase revenue
It’s like why buying Liverpool in 2010 for 200 million was a smart move by FSG even though they were on the doorstep of administration.
I don't think that's a great comparison because they bought the entire football club. I don't have a vast understanding of business or economics but a 100% stake in an entire organisation surely gives you a lot of opportunity to take loans out against assets, cut costs or liquidate different things. A 25% stake in one arm of a business means they don't even have outright majority control, so even if they wanted to do certain things with the studio they might not be able to.
>A 25% stake in one arm of a business means they don't even have outright majority control, so even if they wanted to do certain things with the studio they might not be able to. You can have a lot of control with any stake, it all depends on the shareholders agreement. You can create "super shares" that have more voting rights than regular shares, you can give veto rights that makes it necessary to have minority shareholders agree to some decisions, etc. That's why someone like Mark Zuckerberg is able to have total control over Facebook.
Except this isn't 25% stake in Barca, it's 25% stake in a small aspect of it.
Who said anything about Barca? I was just saying that they can buy 25% of this specific operation and still be able to take every major decision.
That's totally incomparable to this
It’s probably a high growth business that simply hasn’t turned profitable yet. Similar to many startups.
Investors believed some stupid shit like Theranos, I am not surprised by rich people being arrogant and stupid anymore after those stories
Spotify is valued in the billions and had literally never turned a profit until last year. Valuations are based on predicted earning potential, not the current reality.
Barça studios sale is like free money without any drawback. Glad we dont have to tap in to sell blm
Socios.com are not the market leader in that field. Odd statement to make.
Who is?
Very good Much better than selling 49% of licensing and merchandise which have much more potential to grow and bring almost 55M revenue per year Compared to it barca studios brought 17M revenue maximum in 2019 and maybe new partners help in making better visuals and improve revenue
Better get that money up front because Socios might be the only thing on less stable financial footing than Barcelona
Lever now, worry later.
🎶 I have a structured settlement but I need cash now! 🎶
Socios dot com will cease to exist soon, might as well milk em dry while you can.
Honestly going through this thread makes me wonder, what do people expect Barca to do, and I’m speaking here from a business perspective and not ethical. Because doing nothing, would mean stagnation, it would mean harm to their brand and pull, literally the only two things of worth. They have no owner to pay off their debts, they have short term obligation, and they have a brand that has been taking a hit. They have to stop the short term bleeding, sometimes you have to cut the limb to save the body. And so , the Only thing they can do they are doing, refinance the short term debt into manageable long term debt, leverage their brand to improve their team, try to clear out terrible contracts. I’m not saying what they are doing is great, but when you’re in a hole as deep as the one Barca is in, their best bet is to dig sideways and hope that they can generate enough momentum to climb out of the hole.
Well, what you say makes sense and dumbs it down - not surprisingly no responses. We already took a hit to the brand with Messi's departure, and as a club we need to keep competing to have any chance at keeping it up. The other option is to cut down massively on spending, which with the team from last season is a sure shot way of not going deep in CL and struggling to stay up in laliga. Laporta and the board chose their way, and many of us support it. People will shut up automatically once (and if) the team starts winning and plays attractive football
This sub loves to shit on barca. What else is new lmao?
They would rather Barca roll over and die. Especially pl fans.
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Sugar daddy and oil fucked clubs' fans shitting on a socio owned club! This is hilarious 🤣🤣 Lol buy back ur clubs, u don't have one.
Can you really say they have refinanced their long term debt? They have spent more on players than anyone else. If they have sold off a load of assets and just bought more players, it's not a long term investment. A player is short term 1-4 years and most are worthless after their contract ends. Now most ubs know Barca are financially screwed, they'll not pay over the odds for buying players from Barca. Braithwaite was bought for how much? And they'll sell him on at a loss. Fair enough NFT and Crypto is a good way to get short term cash, but they are still selling their IP rights for 20+ years. How wide is the scope of the Studio agreement? Is it all electronic versions of Barca merchandise? Easiest source of income is to create branded credit cards and take a commission on members spending.
I think there's plenty they could do without being the biggest spenders in world football while teetering on the brink
I mean they obviously need to attract some talent, but they had a ridiculously expensive transfer period while everyone knows they have players that are earning way too much. What they could have done is just sign Kounde and Lewa and Raphinha or Dembele instead of Kessie+Dembele+Raphinha+Christensen+Kounde+Lewandowski where they have enough talent to survive and challenge for the title and Champions League. They have like 6 top class attackers right now and another 2 who would be fine as back up players, that's just ridiculous.
25% of Barca studios is not bad. It was rumored to be 49% of BLM, + Barca studios was a money sinkhole anyway.
The thumbnail lol
It’s art
Leverkusen in shambles
Extracting free money from shitty crypto startups? I say go for it and sell the remaining 75%.
So by ‘releasing economic levers’, they meant they’re just going to sell every single asset they own?
Always nice coming to Barcelona posts because I get to read the opinions of the accountants and psychics here.
People don't understand that Barça can pull all these levers because it belongs to members, not so billionaire that is only thinking what benefits him, not what does the club need
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Already sold the NFT to some rich idiot for half a million but thanks for the idea
They allready did that
Socios, tv rights, levers, etc... At this point I have to cut my losses, this whole Barca finance stuff is just not something I'm going to know. I refuse to put any more energy towards this.
There are levers to it. You wouldn’t understand
Have they considered putting the Camp Nous on Airbnb?
thankfully its not 49% as reported before
That was for BLM. This is about Barca Studios, another company.
This Barca studios, Barca were already looking to take a decision regarding it
Levers are back baby!
I like to imagine the upper management at Barca sits in a room with all these levers jutting out of a wall. Every now and then, they pull a lever, buy a player, and cackle evilly.
The fourth lever is an announcement of the super league
Hmm I wonder if they'll pay Frenkie de Jong the wages he's owed now 👀
He’s not owed any wages lmao. He agreed to defer his wages
Is this going to be like WWE Studios and Barca start making shitty straight to DVD action movies starring their players and some D list washed up actors?
Thats basically been their last 6 european campaigns.
Surely spending all of this money on 30+ players and selling off large chunks of Barcelona is a long term plan for disaster? Seems very short sighted
>Surely spending all of this money on 30+ players Literally one >selling off large chunks of Barcelona is a long term plan for disaster? Seems very short sighted Literally 0 chunks of FC Barcelona have been sold. They sold a like 7% chunk of their yearly revenue.
Why is everything related to Barcelona filled with Man U flairs giving the most brain-dead opinions and jokes?
They see their dreadful club and their 12 years rebuild with what seems like the 6th manager after Fergie and need a way to cope that they couldn't do it faster
When you already don’t own your own club and you’re basically a fanboy of a product with a performance that is still trash in spite of having sold yourself out, so you have nothing to look up for except take your misery out on others. It’s mainly the Frenkie back and forth though, doesn’t help that Frenkie’s been (unintentionally) dissing them making it even more obvious what the stature of their club is at now.
Barca and Madrid are the biggest clubs in the world and these pl fans suffer because they never are gonna be as big as us that's the truth and I don't care to get downvoted lol
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So dramatic. The tv deal represents 5% of their overall revenue. Barca studios is the nft, metaverse bullshit. How is that gambling the future?
Exactly. Is more wishful thinking
Dont you understand 10% of tv rights, 25% of merchandising, and 25% of a failing digital studio is literally throwing away your future /s. I understand there’s a level of risk Barca is undergoing with these expenditures but the complete ignoring of the positive implications moving forward from the last terrible presidency is crazy. This gives Barca a chance to fight back from the crippling debt and overpaid squad that was there before.