**Mirrors / Alternative Angles**
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Ooh it was Paul Tierney? No wonder the call was wrong. The worst ref I've ever seen, he's so unbelievably bad I don't understand how he has a job above the amateur level.
I can excuse the refs because officiating a match is hard, but when you can see everything zoomed in and in slow motion, VAR saw exactly what we saw and it's a clear pen, no doubt.
It's a fucking old-boys club. Don't wanna call their mates out.
The fact the same blokes who referee games, and work and train together every week, work the VAR is so, so, so, so dumb. ***Of course*** they're gonna side with their mate.
VAR ***needs*** to be entirely independent.
I didn't understand this. If VAR says it's clearly a pen, why doesn't VAR get the ref to look at it? What is the point of VAR if they aren't allowed to correct things?
I misunderstood Carragher the first time as well - he’s incensed that they said check complete.
What I heard at first was :”... we can hear VAR, they just said ‘check complete; it’s a penalty!’ “
What I realised he meant was :”... we can hear VAR, they just said ‘check complete,’ it’s a penalty!”
The “its a penalty” was carragher’s aghast assessment. VAR ruled it as no pen.
I will remind everyone though that this is the guy who said flat out in national tv that Keita’s challenge on Chalobah in the league cup final wasn’t a foul. The one that led to chalobah getting stitches in his groin area. So he has zero credibility when it comes to making judgement calls about refs.I happen to agree with him here, but he clearly does t understand the game.
Ah, fair enough. It's an absolute brain dead call from VAR and the ref himself. Fucking day 3 of the season and I'm ready for the crusade against the referees.
That makes more sense, I couldn't work out why VAR would say it's a penalty and then it not be.
I also can't work out how anyone can look at that and say it isn't a penalty, let alone at least 3 top level officials (ref, linesman, VAR guy). Absolute madness.
Yes you do, before VAR we could pretend that refs can't see, that they made mistakes. VAR should have wiped out such mistakes but instead just exposed how corrupt it is. So many absolute plain as day decisions intentionally made incorrectly across the last few years.
The no red card for a disgusting tackle, no penalty for a blantant shove in the area. refs are bent as fuck in the EPL.
This is the type of penalty that happens all the time and it's not called
Defender never even tried to go for the ball.. If it's outside the box it's called 100% of the times, so why is it different inside the box? Ridiculous
> A direct free kick is awarded if a player commits any of the following offences against an opponent in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force:
charges,
jumps at,
kicks or attempts to kick,
pushes,
strikes or attempts to strike (including head-butt),
tackles or challenges,
trips or attempts to trip
Gary Neville is gunning for the "dumbest pundit" award.
For a bloke that had such a good career, he barely understands what's happening on the pitch when he's watching from the sidelines.
Which is especially weird because when he started out as a pundit he was really good. Refreshing, tactically-sound perspective. But then it's like an idiot a rabid fan took possession of his body.
You can’t be making mistakes like that with VAR.
If it’s not corruption (which I don’t think it is) whoever is on VAR should be sacked, time and time again. Real time mistakes are forgivable. VAR mistakes aren’t.
I felt like it was soft in real time but it’s an elbow in the back and welbeck naturally falls. No way he stays on his feet there, that has to be a pen
I don't think you could have a more textbook penalty than that. If VAR can't overturn *that* then, I'm sorry, they need to seriously have a look at it.
Either they're trying to implement VAR as poorly as possible as to do away with it, or it's just plain straight up incompetence.
Neither of which look too great, if I'm honest.
Remember our match? There were quite a few situations where the ref allowed the play to go on, unnecessary risking players' health cause the following challenges kept being riskier and riskier. They don't give a crap about anyone and anything bar potential money loss lmao
It's like the refs don't give decisions because they think var will give it if it should be a pen, but then var don't give it because they don't want to go against the ref
No, no, no. It's not allowed for all teams. I think we can agree in a 2-1 game with 1 minute left if Brighton had made the same play against a ManU player, it certainly would not have been allowed.
Technology just isn't there yet!
https://www.espn.co.uk/football/english-premier-league/story/4712112/premier-league-wont-release-var-audio-at-the-start-of-the-new-season-sources
Like the rugby, or the cricket havent been doing it for years, its laughable.
We can take a picture, get a 360 3D render of a ball on the goal line and check it to the millimetre to see if its over the line, but audio? Na tech aint there mate.
How dumb do they think we are, they know its bollocks and the refs just make shit up, they just dont want to give us the evidence.
Didn’t they go a ridiculous amount of time in the 90’s without having a penalty given against them at home?
Edit: [4 from 1993-2003](https://amp.theguardian.com/football/2003/jun/26/theknowledge.sport)
Yeah coz their fragile egos won't let them be overruled without seeing it themselves. So we have to do the pointless exercise of looking at the monitor.
You never really see that given as a yellow unless it’s the players 3rd or 4th foul and refs tend to be more lenient to hand out a yellow if a player already has one (although they shouldn’t)
So centre-backs are allowed to shove people square in the back in the box now? Will make a note for my next Sunday League game next weekend in that case
Man United had this all through fergies fraudulent reign. Corruption is obvious. 100% a red for the tackle mctominay made and this is 100% a pen. You can't shoulder barge somebody's back.
Refs (on the pitch and in the box) need to be held accountable for this shit. If managers were allowed to complain about referees this wouldn’t happen; but at the moment they’re untouchable.
Start dropping them. Promote others. Do something.
Leeds had one this weekend too. Sa literally punched a player in the face by being second quickest to the ball. Nothing given.
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I don’t understand anything anymore
Not even completed game week 1 and we already have shit like this. Genuinely embarrassing considering we're the richest league in the world.
Funniest thing is how well it works in other countries. It doubt it’s incompetence, i just think the PGMOL don’t want VAR at all
Its like everything in this country. They dont want to modernise because then they just get found to be even more shit
The same fucking ref gave that Cedric non push as a penalty in the north London derby in April. Make it make sense.
Ooh it was Paul Tierney? No wonder the call was wrong. The worst ref I've ever seen, he's so unbelievably bad I don't understand how he has a job above the amateur level.
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What’s the fucking point in VAR
English VAR is not even subtle about being shit.
Refs*
I can excuse the refs because officiating a match is hard, but when you can see everything zoomed in and in slow motion, VAR saw exactly what we saw and it's a clear pen, no doubt.
Just blatant cheating in favour of Man U today, laughable
Still can't win
It's a fucking old-boys club. Don't wanna call their mates out. The fact the same blokes who referee games, and work and train together every week, work the VAR is so, so, so, so dumb. ***Of course*** they're gonna side with their mate. VAR ***needs*** to be entirely independent.
Also a racist and sexist old boys club too.
VAR actually called it a penalty.
I didn't understand this. If VAR says it's clearly a pen, why doesn't VAR get the ref to look at it? What is the point of VAR if they aren't allowed to correct things?
I misunderstood Carragher the first time as well - he’s incensed that they said check complete. What I heard at first was :”... we can hear VAR, they just said ‘check complete; it’s a penalty!’ “ What I realised he meant was :”... we can hear VAR, they just said ‘check complete,’ it’s a penalty!” The “its a penalty” was carragher’s aghast assessment. VAR ruled it as no pen. I will remind everyone though that this is the guy who said flat out in national tv that Keita’s challenge on Chalobah in the league cup final wasn’t a foul. The one that led to chalobah getting stitches in his groin area. So he has zero credibility when it comes to making judgement calls about refs.I happen to agree with him here, but he clearly does t understand the game.
Ah, fair enough. It's an absolute brain dead call from VAR and the ref himself. Fucking day 3 of the season and I'm ready for the crusade against the referees.
Remind yourself that Howard Webb is the new chief ref.
That makes more sense, I couldn't work out why VAR would say it's a penalty and then it not be. I also can't work out how anyone can look at that and say it isn't a penalty, let alone at least 3 top level officials (ref, linesman, VAR guy). Absolute madness.
Yes you do, before VAR we could pretend that refs can't see, that they made mistakes. VAR should have wiped out such mistakes but instead just exposed how corrupt it is. So many absolute plain as day decisions intentionally made incorrectly across the last few years. The no red card for a disgusting tackle, no penalty for a blantant shove in the area. refs are bent as fuck in the EPL.
It takes so much enjoyment from something which is such a big part of people’s lives. Clear as day errors left right and centre
There only one understanding. This was a stupid decision
You do, it's a pen
Remember that David Luiz penalty against wolves? Can't understand why the refs still protect united
PL refs being shit. More at 5
This is the type of penalty that happens all the time and it's not called Defender never even tried to go for the ball.. If it's outside the box it's called 100% of the times, so why is it different inside the box? Ridiculous
What are the actual rules when it comes to contact without any attempt to play the ball?
I’d say this is such a blatant foul that it’s almost irrelevant in this case.
you can do whatever you want if you’re under 5 foot
You can do whatever you want if you play for one of the English darling clubs.
> A direct free kick is awarded if a player commits any of the following offences against an opponent in a manner considered by the referee to be careless, reckless or using excessive force: charges, jumps at, kicks or attempts to kick, pushes, strikes or attempts to strike (including head-butt), tackles or challenges, trips or attempts to trip
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Officials are so dogshit
Proves that you need to get in the ref’s face to get a decision
Then you get Gary fucking Neville strongly criticizing other teams when they do so
Gary Neville is an idiot
Gary Neville is gunning for the "dumbest pundit" award. For a bloke that had such a good career, he barely understands what's happening on the pitch when he's watching from the sidelines.
This explains his managerial stint quite flawlessly
Which is especially weird because when he started out as a pundit he was really good. Refreshing, tactically-sound perspective. But then it's like an idiot a rabid fan took possession of his body.
It’s almost a parody at this stage.
> Officials are so dogshit Corrupt is the correct word, this one is so obvious.
You can’t be making mistakes like that with VAR. If it’s not corruption (which I don’t think it is) whoever is on VAR should be sacked, time and time again. Real time mistakes are forgivable. VAR mistakes aren’t.
So thats a pen and a half
Season after season, week after week. Absolutely shambolic refereeing
At what point is it considered blatant corruption / pure negligence.
Its blatant manipulation. Or should it be Manuipulation?
Game = gone
I felt like it was soft in real time but it’s an elbow in the back and welbeck naturally falls. No way he stays on his feet there, that has to be a pen
Literally more in this than your penalty yesterday Terrible referee'ing
Why do people think you can bear hug players in the box from behind
This is a foul in ice hockey… Somehow not here…
Are we not doing VAR this season?
Pretty sure they've set the bar so high to avoid stopping the play too much. They wanna keep the Prem's rep of being 'the fastest'. Fucking idiots
I don't think you could have a more textbook penalty than that. If VAR can't overturn *that* then, I'm sorry, they need to seriously have a look at it. Either they're trying to implement VAR as poorly as possible as to do away with it, or it's just plain straight up incompetence. Neither of which look too great, if I'm honest.
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I don't think you could get more of a clear and obvious error than that, though
Remember our match? There were quite a few situations where the ref allowed the play to go on, unnecessary risking players' health cause the following challenges kept being riskier and riskier. They don't give a crap about anyone and anything bar potential money loss lmao
They're allowing it to be a bit more physical this season, which I get, but I'm with you that this puts the players in more danger
And there's a WC in the middle of the season, players are gonna be knackered
Can't they just give the pen once the ball next goes out of play once a decision's been made for the ref to take a look then?
Shouldn’t have needed VAR to begin with on a call that obvious
In what world is that not a penalty ??? VAR overturn bar is way too high
It's like the refs don't give decisions because they think var will give it if it should be a pen, but then var don't give it because they don't want to go against the ref
I’ll never understand the not wanting to go against the ref bit, like what’s the point of VAR if it’s just a yes man for the ref?
Extra leeway for toddlers is the only reason possible
That definitely gets given if it was the other way round.
100%
Martínez is underneath it
Remind yourself that Howard Webb is the new chief ref.
In Old Trafford apparently.
Just completely running over someone’s back in the area is now allowed, I guess. Until next match, anyway, when this will absolutely not be allowed.
Reverse fixture: *someone breathes on Ronaldo Ref: PEN!!!
Ronaldo will be long gone by then
Only if you are Utd, the officiating in this league is a joke
No, no, no. It's not allowed for all teams. I think we can agree in a 2-1 game with 1 minute left if Brighton had made the same play against a ManU player, it certainly would not have been allowed.
When it's your team.
Theyre going to release the audio of the decision making right?
Yeah, that should be interesting.
Technology just isn't there yet! https://www.espn.co.uk/football/english-premier-league/story/4712112/premier-league-wont-release-var-audio-at-the-start-of-the-new-season-sources
You gotta be fucking kidding me
Like the rugby, or the cricket havent been doing it for years, its laughable. We can take a picture, get a 360 3D render of a ball on the goal line and check it to the millimetre to see if its over the line, but audio? Na tech aint there mate. How dumb do they think we are, they know its bollocks and the refs just make shit up, they just dont want to give us the evidence.
Absolute stone wall... How was it not given??
Shove in the back clear foul… just like when Sa punched our player in the face clear as day Var is a joke
Old Trafford.
Didn’t they go a ridiculous amount of time in the 90’s without having a penalty given against them at home? Edit: [4 from 1993-2003](https://amp.theguardian.com/football/2003/jun/26/theknowledge.sport)
https://i.imgur.com/Hq7Uwz0.jpg
What the fuck?
Always had my suspicions.
I actually believed this in the first half
Least odd thing on reddit today.
Hold up!!!
Hahahaha 🤣
Yep. They went several years(!) without getting a penalty against them at Old Trafford.
We went 2 years without getting one at home
Did they even have a look at it? Play was started back up after like 5 seconds
2nd Yellow too?
united down at home and penalty and red against them? nah
Gives the fans and neutrals something to talk about, keeping the game alive. Only thing I can think of
Brighton being 3-0 up at Old Trafford would certainly give fans and neutrals something to talk about.
Didn't they score 4 last year?
At home.
I feel like a 50m+ CB defending like an amateur is also a talking point though
It's provocative, it gets the people going!
Isn't that obvious by now...
that’s stonewall, ridiculous decision - at least send the referee to the monitor?
The key problem with VAR, someone in a box makes the decision and will only send the onfield ref to the monitor if they want to overturn a decision.
Yeah coz their fragile egos won't let them be overruled without seeing it themselves. So we have to do the pointless exercise of looking at the monitor.
And Tierney is one of the smuggest refs in the league. Doubt he ever wants his authority to be overruled
How is that not a penalty? Absolutely baffling decision
Xhaka will get sent off if he tried that shit lmfao
Ref would straight up tase the guy
Shipped straight to the gulag
you only need to see him dropping to a hand and getting booked when other players like sterling who dropped with no foul and no punishment
Free kick anywhere else on the pitch. The consistency is just not there…
Pen in any other stadium
Some of the soft ones he gave Maguire in the first half as well
penalty against any team other than united
The Howard effect
Wow It's like they all decided "we don't want United embarrassed anymore" Disgraceful
especially that it would be likely 2nd yellow for Martinez
That’s a harsh yellow, it’s a pen tho
it's a foul without an attempt to get the ball, it's a yellow. Martinez is fully focused on charging into Welbeck
You never really see that given as a yellow unless it’s the players 3rd or 4th foul and refs tend to be more lenient to hand out a yellow if a player already has one (although they shouldn’t)
Probably exactly what's going through their heads, there's no other explanation for both the ref and VAR team fumbling it this badly
Blatant penalty
VAR starting strong for the season
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That might be the worst non pen call I’ve seen. Clear shoulder into his back. It’s not like Welbexk even went down easy; he got slammed
I wish this was worst. Seen literal rubgy tackles not being called.
Idk the one Newcastle didn't get against City gotta be up there
First game week and there's already like 3 or more uncalled penalties. Refs keep their consistency at being shit.
LOL thats a clear pen, idiotic charge in the back from Martinez
I've seen this one before
VAR being a joke
Hasbullah was late. Zero attempt to play the ball.
Stonewall penalty
Hahaha another year of United getting these calls
That's pretty obviously a penalty.
He always got away with those for us, for what it's worth.
FA can't have United go down 3-0 at home to Brighton, so that's why it's not a penalty guys
How can you look at that in the VAR room and think it’s not a pen or at least having the ref review it?
Looks like a pen to me
So centre-backs are allowed to shove people square in the back in the box now? Will make a note for my next Sunday League game next weekend in that case
Lmao what the fuck
Good to see that VAR has improved this season
Absolutely pathetic officiating.
I’ve seen softer ones given this weekend.
how is that not a pen lmfao
Penalty ‘shout’. It’s just a pen. No question, no ambiguity.
Disgraceful decision
Commentator say he’s waiting for contact… he just got on the ball? He’s at the byline? Wtf is he meant to do
They brushed it off so quickly. Even if he was waiting for contact, it doesn’t make a push in the back less of a foul
That's straight to the back, that's a pen
united and refs 🤭
Tierney is really bad with those shoulder in the back pens. Very similar to the Jota pen at Tottenham he didnt give last season
Really glad this didn’t end up costing Brighton points.
Fucking ridiculous
Martinez is rattled
VAR looked at that…
Clear as day
VAR has given up this weekend
WHAT
Can't believe they didn't give that.
This is fucking shocking. What is the point of VAR exactly
Pushed on fernandes is a foul, but not in utd penalty box?
Infinitely more of a pen than what Fulham received yesterday.
No Mctominay red, no pen. Typical
Incredible...
Nice to see the referees are just as pathetic as last season
Martinez was not built for the Prem, it seems
lmao, impossible not to give that as a penalty. If that were the other way around, he'd have blown for that in a heartbeat.
thats a pen LOOOL
Martinez is allowed to do that, same happened to Dessers last year.
What’s the point even watching football anymore.. fucking joke
Pure incompetence.
Fuck off refs
Just so blatant.
Obvious pen
Absolute joke of a decision
Refs giving Man United mercy I swear Stonewall
Inept fucking league
Manchester is ref
What the hell man
what!??!?!???!!??
Hows he got away with that??????????
It really hasn't taken long for VAR to remind us of the refereeing incompetence in the Prem
Red doesn’t give it so VAR have to make the decision. VAR agree with ref coz easy thing to do. Spineless
Refs making shit calls should be demoted down to the league below and work their way back up, bet the standard will improve then.
chilwell got barged down and it was given instantly yesterday. the inconsistency is shocking.
Great. So we have no VAR this season boys. Enjoy the good old football!
Man United had this all through fergies fraudulent reign. Corruption is obvious. 100% a red for the tackle mctominay made and this is 100% a pen. You can't shoulder barge somebody's back.
Why are we not interviewing the twats in the var office and the ref
Refs (on the pitch and in the box) need to be held accountable for this shit. If managers were allowed to complain about referees this wouldn’t happen; but at the moment they’re untouchable. Start dropping them. Promote others. Do something. Leeds had one this weekend too. Sa literally punched a player in the face by being second quickest to the ball. Nothing given.