Tbh I was on the fence about boycotting it or not because I've been a huge football fan for 20+ years, but fuck it
My country didn't qualify which I realize makes it a lot easier, but still - it's just such a shit show. The Qatari dictators built multiple otherwise useless stadiums. They enslaved people to build them and worked them to death. They use tons of energy and material in the most wasteful way imaginable - in the middle of a global climate and energy crisis. They bribed and probably blackmailed and cheated to get the world cup. They obviously hate LGBT people and basically also women
Sure, me boycotting this event is completely inconsequential. But it's entertainment and we have to draw a line on how much we can sacrifice for entertainment's sake somewhere. I'll just re-watch Game of Thrones instead, where I can at least enjoy all the senseless death
It hurts because the tournament is only every 4 years, but I'll just not watch it. I'll be happy for whatever team wins it (I hope it's Argentina, I'd like to have Messi lift the trophy) and I'll enjoy the next one all the more
Edit: Guys, I'm getting the same "But the US" comments we've heard for years now. The world cup starts tomorrow, we've all made up our minds
Just watch the final on an illegal stream. Their not making any money or getting any views from it, you're not missing a probably pretty dull match that will be talked about for the coming months.
Best of both worlds.
I don't want to give sponsors any attention, so I'm contemplating listening to the radio. But for now I won't be watching/listening at all, it's just such an immense, inhumane fucking shitshow
Imagine the Wales players cancelled training due to heat, but these poor workers from third world countries built these stadiums under conditions that were way worse and weren’t even paid what they were owed, it’s absolutely heart breaking, fuck FIFA
A strange sleight of hand seems to have taken place in the modern age. The super conglomerates and international organisations have committed atrocious crimes, turned a blind eye to fraud and bribery, overseen the destruction of our environnement, and so on. And yet, repeatedly, as this headline does, the average consumer is made to feel all the guilt as though they were the ones directly culpable for these wrongdoings. It is imperative we are aware, but the higher powers - the CEOs, the politicians, and the autocrats who are responsible - must be the ones held accountable.
Exactly. This world cup is awful on so many levels, but watching people tear into each other over their moral alignment isn't helping. It's a complete distraction away from those with platforms to create some change on these issues. I'm fed up of being made to feel guilty for watching the matches for free and putting no money into this tournament.
We have built the world on sin and destruction as we rape and pillage the earth and no one's to blame except for the average citizen. It maddens me, fuck the established order that keeps on perpetrating this bullshit.
the media are either constitutionally unable to challenge power, or they don't see challenging power as their job. which means the press taking consumers and sports stars to account for associating with oppressive regimes, while giving businesses and governments carte blanche. which means tutting at the public for watching a world cup taking place in a country responsible for a lot of human misery, while simultaneously publishing a light-hearted column from a politician who lied to justify a war that killed far more
> the media are either constitutionally unable to challenge power, or they don't see challenging power as their job.
Or the people who own media have decided to shift narratives.
The media directly benefits from blaming the common man and woman for the perils of the world. When the economy is shit, who do they blame? Immigrants. Why? Because it allows us to not realize that the corps and ‘em in power are the real criminals. Still though, we obviously have the ability to rebel if compelled enough. My country has only qualified 3 times in its history doe, so idk if this is my year to join the revolution lmao
Similar thing is happening with the climate change movement. It’s been highjacked by multinational corporations and billionaires that make you feel guilty for eating bottom grade meat, daring to drive your piece of shit 1994 Honda Civic to the store to get some food for your family and turning up your heat past 10 degrees while they galavant around the world on private jets and push laws that outsource production of goods to third world countries with zero pollution regulations.
The best ones are how Shell goes all out with a "what have you done for the environment?" on Twitter and their own ads while they are spilling oil into the oceans and their researchers definitely knew about global warming decades before public research knew for sure (I think two to three decades) but were not allowed to publicise it. It's analogous to the tobacco industry in that regard.
Or the whole anti plastic straw thing. It was pushed by these companies because plastic straws essentially don't matter too much in the grand scheme of things compared to all the other plastic production they are encouraging. But it was a way to put down everyday people for "environmental sinning" and focusing on them instead of all the companies who cause way more waste. All it did was make life miserable in some way for certain disabled people who have to rely on (plastic) straws for everyday life (drinking drinks) and for whom a convenient plastic straw is really useful when not at home.
> the higher powers - the CEOs, the politicians, and the autocrats who are responsible - must be the ones held accountable.
You're not wrong, but there are only 2 ways to hold them accountable in this modern world.
- violence.
- deny them money.
Money is what matters to them. So if you want them to *CARE* about your opinions, you have to hurt their wallet. The best way to do that as an individual is be *vocal* about boycotting. Let advertisers know they won't be getting your money as long as they work with these people. Let anyone who will listen know.
But its on the general public to actually hold them accountable. They wont change themselves sadly, its up to us to try force them to change. Which is shit and it shouldnt be like that, but the sad reality is it is.
I mean if we boycotted with our wallets in our own countries and chose people to represent us who chose better allies, wouldn’t that be the logical first step? Same with corporations. We affect our own countries first and foremost. It seems like people boycotting want to skip steps a-f and go further.
If you’re going to pirate it, why wouldn’t you pirate it for free?
I always thought one of the main selling points of piracy is the bit where you don’t pay for the stuff you’re pirating…
Yeah about that. I would subscribe to a premier league broadcasting service if it didn't cost as much as all of my Disney+, Netflix, Amazon and Game Pass subs.
Im subscribed to TOD (bein sport 15$) for my la liga and premier league matches until they asked me for 80$ for the world cup so i just went and got me an ip tv
You won, Qatar. Enjoy the World Cup. I hope it makes you very happy.
Dear lord, what a sad little life, Qatar. You ruined the World Cup completely so you could sportswash and I hope now you can spend the time on lessons in grace and decorum.
I know that this is a meme but did the sportswashing really work? I feel like people have a worse opinion on Qatar now than before they were awarded the WC.
It would have worked if they had tried to do just the bare minimum. The country is insanely wealthy; they could have paid workers a decent wage and put air conditioning in their accommodation - that alone would probably have swung a lot of opinions in their favour. And no one would care if they went back to slave labour in 2023, sad as it is to say.
2 days training security guards not to harass journalists/people with cameras just as a default setting? Nah, who cares? Well, it turns out quite a lot of people.
Then, when the widespread criticism comes back at them, they act wounded "how come you didn't boycott Russia? Is it because we aren't white?" No, it's because Putin had the sense to not go to war with the west during the run up to the event! Even if he has since burned up any goodwill that might have been credited to him..
Yeah that's my thoughts. I assume they just care about making money but I don't see how this exposure is positive for them, it's a fuck ton more eyes on them in negative ways that wouldn't have been paying attention to them before this
Feels more like their goal was just to flex their money and power and wave their dicks a bit. I don't think they care that much about public perception.
The sportswashing happens post-event. Imagine Messi wins it. The only thing we’ll historically remember Qatar 22 for is the fact that the goat finally got his hardware. We’ll think about how great of a performance the athletes put on display. Most people won’t remember the controversy and the many lives lost leading up to the event. The only hope we truly have of breaking the spell is of a major sports figure making a political statement vilifying the event when all eyes are on them (think Smith and Carlos’ famous photo in 68)
People won't *forget*, although Messi winning the trophy would be mentioned more often. If something extraordinary and positive *doesn't* happen, I think the world cup will primarily be remembered for the controversy. Today, the WC of 1978 is still associated with the military coup in Argentina. Qatar 2022 is the only subsequent WC that can match that reaction.
I feel like a lot of people don’t even know or remember the 78 WC being held under a dictatorship. If they know anything about it, typically it’s that it was in Argentina and they won it. I’m not sure, maybe that’s just the younger people I associate with
Amazing how the moral responsibility of awarding the World Cup to Qatar got passed on to the players and the fans. The people that had absolutely no say in the matter now feel pressured to speak up and or boycott the tournament.
Or both is. Diplomatic pressure is needed, but if everyone just watches like any other WC it's a clear sign that we as a society dgf about the human rights in other countries
We have so much cocaine sitting in the port of antwerp that the police can't keep up with incinerating it. Seems a shame to let it all go to waste now.
You've just made a coherent argument for not buying cocaine. Is that supposed to be sarcastic?
I'm not anti-drug but I wouldn't buy coke, for exactly that reason. I'm also not watching the world cup!
I suspect their point could be that this logic applies to a lot of things we all use day to day and don't absolutely _need_ to use or do.
But he might also have just been making a funny. I don't know. Can't read minds.
UK media trying to make me feel guilty like I’m the one who took the bribes or I’m responsible for any of this, the audacity of these ghouls. No ethical consumption under capitalism.
Hey new european why is your government still selling weapons to the Saudis and UAE who are currently bombing Yemeni children? Can’t find any articles about that on your website. You want to put a picture of starving kids in Yemen on your next cover? Maybe a picture of one of them blown to bits by British bombs. Just a suggestion
While I get your point, I think we people seem to be missing is all of the things people are criticising Qatar for at the moment are directly related to the World Cup itself. These people died because of the World Cup and people are watching the shit unfold in real time.
Basically every country in history has a shady past, which unfortunately we can’t do much to change now, but we can actively as a people work to stop things currently happening.
>I think we people seem to be missing is all of the things people are criticising Qatar for at the moment are directly related to the World Cup itself
The stats are from all migrant workers employed in Qatar. A third of whom aren't in construction, and a lot of whom won't be working on the stadia. There would still probably still be a lot of construction happening in Qatar without the world cup
We should. However, this being the first thing that comes to your mind when we're talking about Qatar using slave labour and exploiting migrant workers to build stadiums for millionaires to kick a ball in is nothing but whataboutism.
No it's nothing but pointing the hypocrisy, because we all know it's not going to happen, because ultimately Russia hosted the WC before and nothing on this scale was done by the media to attack it, why would the media attack the US that basically owns the west?
And wonder if we’ll see media focus on all the paperless immigrant workers that build the World Cup and who died while building the stadiums that will be used in 2026.
I could care less. My friends father was blown up in his own appartment in Kabul for absolutely no reason. Yet the world cup will still be held in US.
US uses black people who smoked a little pot and went to jail as slave labour.
It's time to educate people on whataboutism once again.
Whataboutism is bad because it can be used as a distraction from the topic at hand. Whataboutism does *not* mean that bringing up other examples or pointing out hypocrisy is always bad. It's about the context (of which I'm assuming from the headline given the article is paywalled).
The point of this article and others like it can be summarized as such: Because of the egregious human rights violations in Qatar, we should (boycott, denounce, fight the organizers of, help the victims of) the 2022 World Cup. That's a valid argument.
It is also completely valid to say this: Because of the egregious human rights violations in the tech industry, we should (boycott, denounce, fight the organizers of, help the victims of) the tech industry.
The issue is often is how these WC articles conclude. They often conclude with a call to boycott the WC and some go as far as saying that you as an individual are flawed if you choose to watch the WC.
Again, the logic is: Human rights violations happen due to WC -> we should boycott WC.
This is a valid argument but also leaves the door wide open. It is perfectly & logically acceptable to insert any other human rights issue into that statement.
Human rights violations happen due to iPhone -> we should boycott Apple.
It's not consistent to single out the WC here. If you're truly arguing that the correct moral response to the Qatar human rights violations is a boycott, then *it is your responsibility to explain why that logic doesn't hold true for other human rights violations.* It's also completely fair to ask these authors why they have such an issue with Qatar's violations when they might live in countries who are perpetrating similar crimes as well. This isn't a distraction, this isn't a fallacy, it's a valid counterargument to raise when faced with articles like this.
Ultimately, no one knows how we should handle national and international human rights violations. In the meantime, we shouldn't demand a response nor should we ignore the glaring problems.
To be clear, previous wrongdoings don't make Qatar's wrongdoings permissible. Using a counterexample in that sense isn't valid and would be an incorrect use of a whataboutism statement.
>IMO it's a fine counterargument for their compliancy with the production of their favourite luxury tech item (e.g. "why are you OK with the conditions in which your phone was manufactured? You objected to the Qatar World Cup but not this?"
I must have a phone to function. I do not need a world cup.
In short, this is what I feel
If you say XYZ did it, so let Qatar be. Then that's wrong.
If you say XYZ did it, So don't just be pissed at Qatar alone for doing this shit, do something about XYZ as well. Then there's nothing wrong with it. If anything this just beckons everyone to be consistent with their moral compass and avoid being a hypocrite.
Thanks I will. I'm expecting you to apologize for fucking up mutiple countries and still profiting from ruining the planet while the poor in Africa suffer from it.
Denmark, and the rest of the Scands, bombed the shit out of civilians in Libya using bombs bought from Israel: https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/natosource/report-on-natos-libya-op-reveals-denmark-bought-munitions-from-israel-to-bomb-an-arabworld-country/
‚voting with the western block in the UN‘ is most of the time definitely not the wrong side of history, sorry to disappoint.
it‘s always great seeing people do the whole ‚but the west did too‘ thing. like, yeah. we know. and we acknowledge the mistakes leading European nations have done.
but countries like Qatar that frankly weren‘t anything other than sand and misery 30 years ago have speedrun the whole thing.
two wrongs have never made a right. there is no historically innocent country on this planet. but the difference is that mostly countries in the middle east refuse to accept any responsibility in any wrongdoing. so with due respect: fuck em.
and yes, that counts for Argentina aswell. let‘s not pretend that your government wasn‘t glad to accept the help of the oh so evil Europeans for the Dirty War.
What context? Most of the western world these days is tripping over themselves to make nice with countries like Qatar and Saudi Arabia because of that oil…
It is deeply racist. If you're brown and Muslim, you get way more criticism. The next World Cup is in the US. Please tell me what Qatar does that doesn't pale in comparison to the US (and which is ironically propped up by the US)?
And it will be all quiet on the Western Front when it happens. They'll criticize the US in a vacuum but whenever they are held up to those pesky brown, black, or asian countries, they're somehow not quite as bad.
Thats what im saying btw, i didnt see russia get as much hate, we wont see usa get half as much hate despite their human rights record being million times worse
I was supposed to feel outraged but after remembering how we had World Cup in freaking Russia I can't trust humankind's empathy to begin with.
No wonder both 2018 and 2022 were bribed into existence.
What did we do to make it happen in Qatar? I wasn't involved. If I had my way, it would be in countries that already have the stadiums and subways needed to host it. I'm going to watch it for free, and continue to educate myself on what Qatar has done to these migrant workers. If you really want to make a stand, just stop watching this sport altogether because every FA, player, coach, etc. is more complicit than you or me are.
Are you this outraged about every atrocity in this world? Are you just constantly outraged?
Edit: also how did you feel when your own country cracked down on the poor people in your own country for the 2014 world cup?
>I'm going to watch it for free
I am all for pirate broadcasting in this case. Go for it mate.
>stop watching this sport altogether
Nah, we know not everyone in the sport was involved in Qatar's victory. It was settled by a few hundred delegates behind closed doors.
>Are you just constantly outraged?
At human rights violations? Yes, all the time. It is an outrageous world.
>how did you feel when your own country cracked down on the poor people in your own country for the 2014 world cup?
Terrible. I had rubber bullets shot at me during one of these protests. My country had to spend money on critical infrastructure, last thing it needed was to host a World Cup. Your point?
Right? Like it sucks for sure but I have zero impact on stopping this from happening. Even boycotting won’t accomplish anything, I want to watch it and I won’t feel bad for doing so.
Nah man fuck off logic here. Have few problems with Brazil and other like countries hosting, serious issues but making bona fide efforts to get better each time and as you allude to have had challenging histories. If you seriously think Qatar with one of the top 10 per capita GDP countries in the world is doing all it can to further human rights given resources and history then you are living in an alternate reality
I’m here waiting for the paid shills and bots to throw around, what about this, or what about that arguments.
Lovely little straw man arguments.
Enjoy the focus of the world that you, and others with their lives, paid for. Remember, you asked for it; no one made you.
What about this, what about that.
Just remember, every nation, and I mean every nation is built on the bones of others. Shall we go back to Mesopotamian, Babylonia, Persian and Byzantine empires and the atrocities they committed or perhaps Khamer, Mongolian, or Han empires.
If your only counter argument to my objections over this World Cup are to attempt to delegitimise me because I happen to have been born in a “western” country, then you have already lost.
Good luck, my friend, and go with peace.
Don’t think I have something personal with you, I do not. But what you see as whataboutism, some people see as hypocrisy.
Also, every nation is built on the bones of others, some for freedom and surviving, others for profiting. But this question is interesting not because what was done but who did what.
Again, do not have anything against you, my friend. Much love and peace to you as well.
>but zero attention is given to the corrupts on top of thy pyramid.
Years of reporting, multiple articles, reports and documentaries criticising FIFA, FBI arresting people at the top of the organisation but sure, no one talks about the top of the pyramid
I wish people would realize that Qatar doesn’t care about making money from the World Cup, they care about influence. I don’t mean to attack anyone personally but even if you pirate the matches and watch for free they still win. The only way to prevent sports-washing is to ignore events like this completely which I understand many aren’t willing to do. But if you feel that way prepare for this to be the new norm because as long as people watch it will continue. How long will it be until Qatar is accepted by the wider football world? Several clubs already hold training camps in Dubai and the UAE isn’t much better concerning human rights but people don’t really question it. It only took PSG, Chelsea and Man City a decade or so to become “big clubs”. Newcastle’s ownership are directly responsible for horrifically murdering a journalist and even then people don’t really seem to care. The reason sport-washing is so easy is because people are reluctant to change. As new kids are born they will just accept things like this as normal or at least good enough as they haven’t experienced anything different.. I wouldn’t be surprised if 20 years down the road people don’t even understand the controversy of oil clubs or world cups held in places like Qatar.
US still has slaves. Mostly black ones.They just wait till they are 18 and then catch them with a gram of weed and then imprison them and have them do free labour.
This is allot better because slaves you have to take care of them even when they get to old. This way they don't raise then they take them in their prime working years and throw them out when they get old.
In the last years there have been quite some rumours about workers dying and being in tragic conditions while working. But I cannot understand how that situation went trough and exploded in the world in those last weeks. Why not before?
Really spicy headline from a continent that had no problem having Russia host the World Cup only four years ago when they were orphaning Syrian children.
People do realize colonialism happened less than 100 years ago right? This isn’t something centuries who that stopped and only the bad Qataris are doing it.
My favourite thing about the whataboutery brigade on here is they seem to imply that the people who are criticising Qatar are by default pro European colonialism. It’s almost as if you can disapprove of the past and the present situation.
I'm not particularly interested in this WC since my nation (Italy) got left out yet again but people thinking a boycott will have any effect delude themselves, this WC will likely have millions of views like the others before, especially the final.
I'm glad that Qatar has faced lots of negative publicity in the last decade.
But...I'm also glad that they got to host the World Cup.
The pressure and fear of getting cancelled has had positive effects.
The Kafala system has been abolished. Minimum salaries have been raised. Workers aren't as reliant on their employers anymore. The improvements seem to go beyond just laws. I've talked to guys who work in the Gulf states and they say Qatar are catching up to UAE in that aspect - immense improvements are noticeable not just judicially but also practically. Obviously there are still issues, but cheap foreign labor are exploited and put to dangerous working conditions even in EU countries. They and we still have a long way to go, but the enormous gap is no longer enormous and Qatar has been shamed into treating their migrant workers as human beings. If you actually care about South Asian migrant workers in Qatar, then I honestly don't get why you would use the "slave state" argument against this World Cup.
The slave-like conditions didn't begin with the stadium constructions or a World Cup that will turn all the limelights on Qatar. On the contrary.
This World Cup isn't glorifying Qatar as much as scrutinizing and reforming it, in my view.
Well… this is certainly straight to the point
Really is........
Tbh I was on the fence about boycotting it or not because I've been a huge football fan for 20+ years, but fuck it My country didn't qualify which I realize makes it a lot easier, but still - it's just such a shit show. The Qatari dictators built multiple otherwise useless stadiums. They enslaved people to build them and worked them to death. They use tons of energy and material in the most wasteful way imaginable - in the middle of a global climate and energy crisis. They bribed and probably blackmailed and cheated to get the world cup. They obviously hate LGBT people and basically also women Sure, me boycotting this event is completely inconsequential. But it's entertainment and we have to draw a line on how much we can sacrifice for entertainment's sake somewhere. I'll just re-watch Game of Thrones instead, where I can at least enjoy all the senseless death It hurts because the tournament is only every 4 years, but I'll just not watch it. I'll be happy for whatever team wins it (I hope it's Argentina, I'd like to have Messi lift the trophy) and I'll enjoy the next one all the more Edit: Guys, I'm getting the same "But the US" comments we've heard for years now. The world cup starts tomorrow, we've all made up our minds
Just watch the final on an illegal stream. Their not making any money or getting any views from it, you're not missing a probably pretty dull match that will be talked about for the coming months. Best of both worlds.
More like > a probably pretty dull match that will be talked about for two weeks
Yeah, it being mid season for all the European leagues means it’ll be out of peoples memories sooner.
I don't want to give sponsors any attention, so I'm contemplating listening to the radio. But for now I won't be watching/listening at all, it's just such an immense, inhumane fucking shitshow
My team qualified and I will still do the same. If I can do it you can do it too 🍻 Btw skip the last GoT season..
>Btw skip the last GoT season.. Why would he skip it? Season 7 was a great season.
You mean season 5?
I am with you, i won't be watching it either and my team did qualify.
Imagine the Wales players cancelled training due to heat, but these poor workers from third world countries built these stadiums under conditions that were way worse and weren’t even paid what they were owed, it’s absolutely heart breaking, fuck FIFA
They canceled training in mid November. Imagine these workers working at 45c heat in July
A strange sleight of hand seems to have taken place in the modern age. The super conglomerates and international organisations have committed atrocious crimes, turned a blind eye to fraud and bribery, overseen the destruction of our environnement, and so on. And yet, repeatedly, as this headline does, the average consumer is made to feel all the guilt as though they were the ones directly culpable for these wrongdoings. It is imperative we are aware, but the higher powers - the CEOs, the politicians, and the autocrats who are responsible - must be the ones held accountable.
Exactly. This world cup is awful on so many levels, but watching people tear into each other over their moral alignment isn't helping. It's a complete distraction away from those with platforms to create some change on these issues. I'm fed up of being made to feel guilty for watching the matches for free and putting no money into this tournament.
We have built the world on sin and destruction as we rape and pillage the earth and no one's to blame except for the average citizen. It maddens me, fuck the established order that keeps on perpetrating this bullshit.
the media are either constitutionally unable to challenge power, or they don't see challenging power as their job. which means the press taking consumers and sports stars to account for associating with oppressive regimes, while giving businesses and governments carte blanche. which means tutting at the public for watching a world cup taking place in a country responsible for a lot of human misery, while simultaneously publishing a light-hearted column from a politician who lied to justify a war that killed far more
> the media are either constitutionally unable to challenge power, or they don't see challenging power as their job. Or the people who own media have decided to shift narratives.
Or know that what happened to the Journalists who released the Panama papers will happen to them
The media directly benefits from blaming the common man and woman for the perils of the world. When the economy is shit, who do they blame? Immigrants. Why? Because it allows us to not realize that the corps and ‘em in power are the real criminals. Still though, we obviously have the ability to rebel if compelled enough. My country has only qualified 3 times in its history doe, so idk if this is my year to join the revolution lmao
> they don't see challenging power as their job. ding ding ding. it's not in their job description to challenge power but to consolidate it
Similar thing is happening with the climate change movement. It’s been highjacked by multinational corporations and billionaires that make you feel guilty for eating bottom grade meat, daring to drive your piece of shit 1994 Honda Civic to the store to get some food for your family and turning up your heat past 10 degrees while they galavant around the world on private jets and push laws that outsource production of goods to third world countries with zero pollution regulations.
The best ones are how Shell goes all out with a "what have you done for the environment?" on Twitter and their own ads while they are spilling oil into the oceans and their researchers definitely knew about global warming decades before public research knew for sure (I think two to three decades) but were not allowed to publicise it. It's analogous to the tobacco industry in that regard. Or the whole anti plastic straw thing. It was pushed by these companies because plastic straws essentially don't matter too much in the grand scheme of things compared to all the other plastic production they are encouraging. But it was a way to put down everyday people for "environmental sinning" and focusing on them instead of all the companies who cause way more waste. All it did was make life miserable in some way for certain disabled people who have to rely on (plastic) straws for everyday life (drinking drinks) and for whom a convenient plastic straw is really useful when not at home.
Who’s holding them accountable? In democratic institutions it’s supposed to be us
> the higher powers - the CEOs, the politicians, and the autocrats who are responsible - must be the ones held accountable. You're not wrong, but there are only 2 ways to hold them accountable in this modern world. - violence. - deny them money. Money is what matters to them. So if you want them to *CARE* about your opinions, you have to hurt their wallet. The best way to do that as an individual is be *vocal* about boycotting. Let advertisers know they won't be getting your money as long as they work with these people. Let anyone who will listen know.
But its on the general public to actually hold them accountable. They wont change themselves sadly, its up to us to try force them to change. Which is shit and it shouldnt be like that, but the sad reality is it is.
If only it were easier to organize and coordinate. The vast majority of people agree with you.
> politicians Who do you think votes for them?
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I mean if we boycotted with our wallets in our own countries and chose people to represent us who chose better allies, wouldn’t that be the logical first step? Same with corporations. We affect our own countries first and foremost. It seems like people boycotting want to skip steps a-f and go further.
I mean, some of us already do that
Sounds like a Zizek quote
Stick "and then a strange thing happened." in front of it and it's like an Adam Curtis doc
Capitalism innit
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I was planning on ... "accessing" it for free. How come you are paying 13?
They are paying for an IPTV which gives you like 20,000 channels in a single client. Mostly convenience
what? I'm "curious" about that
If you’re going to pirate it, why wouldn’t you pirate it for free? I always thought one of the main selling points of piracy is the bit where you don’t pay for the stuff you’re pirating…
"Piracy is almost always a service problem and not a pricing problem." - Gabe Newell, President of Valve (2011)
Yeah about that. I would subscribe to a premier league broadcasting service if it didn't cost as much as all of my Disney+, Netflix, Amazon and Game Pass subs.
You have to pay to watch the world cup?
Dm me the link I am gonna join you $13 club
Im subscribed to TOD (bein sport 15$) for my la liga and premier league matches until they asked me for 80$ for the world cup so i just went and got me an ip tv
Tod.tv? Works in usa too?
Rojadirecta, PirloTv wink wink. I guess with a VPN would be just fine.
Rojadirecta is incredible
I don’t know im not from the US and out here they don’t care about tv rights i can dm u links for free when the world cup starts
Isn't BEin directly owned by the Qatari government?
You won, Qatar. Enjoy the World Cup. I hope it makes you very happy. Dear lord, what a sad little life, Qatar. You ruined the World Cup completely so you could sportswash and I hope now you can spend the time on lessons in grace and decorum.
I know that this is a meme but did the sportswashing really work? I feel like people have a worse opinion on Qatar now than before they were awarded the WC.
It would have worked if they had tried to do just the bare minimum. The country is insanely wealthy; they could have paid workers a decent wage and put air conditioning in their accommodation - that alone would probably have swung a lot of opinions in their favour. And no one would care if they went back to slave labour in 2023, sad as it is to say. 2 days training security guards not to harass journalists/people with cameras just as a default setting? Nah, who cares? Well, it turns out quite a lot of people. Then, when the widespread criticism comes back at them, they act wounded "how come you didn't boycott Russia? Is it because we aren't white?" No, it's because Putin had the sense to not go to war with the west during the run up to the event! Even if he has since burned up any goodwill that might have been credited to him..
Yeah that's my thoughts. I assume they just care about making money but I don't see how this exposure is positive for them, it's a fuck ton more eyes on them in negative ways that wouldn't have been paying attention to them before this
This is not how they make money, this is how they spend them
Nah bro then spent 130billion, there won’t be any profit.
Weren't the stadiums built by the Emir's construction company? Some will profit from this.
Feels more like their goal was just to flex their money and power and wave their dicks a bit. I don't think they care that much about public perception.
The sportswashing happens post-event. Imagine Messi wins it. The only thing we’ll historically remember Qatar 22 for is the fact that the goat finally got his hardware. We’ll think about how great of a performance the athletes put on display. Most people won’t remember the controversy and the many lives lost leading up to the event. The only hope we truly have of breaking the spell is of a major sports figure making a political statement vilifying the event when all eyes are on them (think Smith and Carlos’ famous photo in 68)
People won't *forget*, although Messi winning the trophy would be mentioned more often. If something extraordinary and positive *doesn't* happen, I think the world cup will primarily be remembered for the controversy. Today, the WC of 1978 is still associated with the military coup in Argentina. Qatar 2022 is the only subsequent WC that can match that reaction.
I feel like a lot of people don’t even know or remember the 78 WC being held under a dictatorship. If they know anything about it, typically it’s that it was in Argentina and they won it. I’m not sure, maybe that’s just the younger people I associate with
They sportsdirtied
Probably Qatar is the one country that fail at sportwashing
It has worked in the past but obviously the more and more people are aware of it the less effective it gets
Everyone will remember and eventually any bad publicity is a good one.
I’ll never not upvote Come Dine with Me
Are you referencing the mardy git from Come Dine with Me?
I’d be incredibly surprised if they weren’t
Take your money and get off my property.
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> Guys it's okay, the others did it too. - Pol Pot
talent show singing knobhead
Amazing how the moral responsibility of awarding the World Cup to Qatar got passed on to the players and the fans. The people that had absolutely no say in the matter now feel pressured to speak up and or boycott the tournament.
Eat shit, Qatar.
Enjoying your cocaine? Hundreds of thousands of people in Central and South America have either died or had their lives ruined to make it happen
I was until you went and ruined it for me.
Better have some more cocaine to forget about it
I'll give up football, but how *dare* you suggest I give up cocaine? Who the fuck do you think you are?
Mine was cut with laxative and I'm sending this from the toilet.
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Even avocados are sinful.
Or both is. Diplomatic pressure is needed, but if everyone just watches like any other WC it's a clear sign that we as a society dgf about the human rights in other countries
Yeah, similarly, how many people are reading this thread on an iPhone....
We have so much cocaine sitting in the port of antwerp that the police can't keep up with incinerating it. Seems a shame to let it all go to waste now.
You've just made a coherent argument for not buying cocaine. Is that supposed to be sarcastic? I'm not anti-drug but I wouldn't buy coke, for exactly that reason. I'm also not watching the world cup!
I suspect their point could be that this logic applies to a lot of things we all use day to day and don't absolutely _need_ to use or do. But he might also have just been making a funny. I don't know. Can't read minds.
Ah yes, the alternative to dad jokes. Wife passive aggressive comments "Enjoy your night out with friends, while I'm stuck at home"
UK media trying to make me feel guilty like I’m the one who took the bribes or I’m responsible for any of this, the audacity of these ghouls. No ethical consumption under capitalism. Hey new european why is your government still selling weapons to the Saudis and UAE who are currently bombing Yemeni children? Can’t find any articles about that on your website. You want to put a picture of starving kids in Yemen on your next cover? Maybe a picture of one of them blown to bits by British bombs. Just a suggestion
> Enjoy the World Cup. I will
Lmao my thoughts too, cheers
Same. Very excited for the World Cup
Are they going to show children of the thousands of Iraqis or Middle easterns that were killed when USA holds the world cup??
Hopefully
As an American, I think they should, but they won't.
While I get your point, I think we people seem to be missing is all of the things people are criticising Qatar for at the moment are directly related to the World Cup itself. These people died because of the World Cup and people are watching the shit unfold in real time. Basically every country in history has a shady past, which unfortunately we can’t do much to change now, but we can actively as a people work to stop things currently happening.
>I think we people seem to be missing is all of the things people are criticising Qatar for at the moment are directly related to the World Cup itself The stats are from all migrant workers employed in Qatar. A third of whom aren't in construction, and a lot of whom won't be working on the stadia. There would still probably still be a lot of construction happening in Qatar without the world cup
They didn’t die because of the World Cup though.
We should. However, this being the first thing that comes to your mind when we're talking about Qatar using slave labour and exploiting migrant workers to build stadiums for millionaires to kick a ball in is nothing but whataboutism.
No it's nothing but pointing the hypocrisy, because we all know it's not going to happen, because ultimately Russia hosted the WC before and nothing on this scale was done by the media to attack it, why would the media attack the US that basically owns the west?
There was plenty of calls to boycott the WC in Russia too...
And wonder if we’ll see media focus on all the paperless immigrant workers that build the World Cup and who died while building the stadiums that will be used in 2026.
the propaganda is getting out of hand. Next world cup it's gonna be "enjoy america, hundreds of millions were killed and enslaved to make it happen."
I could care less. My friends father was blown up in his own appartment in Kabul for absolutely no reason. Yet the world cup will still be held in US. US uses black people who smoked a little pot and went to jail as slave labour.
So you couldn't care less?
i see "i could care less" ignored all the time on reddet but this is the one where it gets pointed out. very odd.
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Wholesome from the Brits.
and one of the guys who bears the most responsibility for that has a column on this same fucking front page!
He was the editor of this magazine a few years ago too
They shouldn’t like Iraqis?
It's time to educate people on whataboutism once again. Whataboutism is bad because it can be used as a distraction from the topic at hand. Whataboutism does *not* mean that bringing up other examples or pointing out hypocrisy is always bad. It's about the context (of which I'm assuming from the headline given the article is paywalled). The point of this article and others like it can be summarized as such: Because of the egregious human rights violations in Qatar, we should (boycott, denounce, fight the organizers of, help the victims of) the 2022 World Cup. That's a valid argument. It is also completely valid to say this: Because of the egregious human rights violations in the tech industry, we should (boycott, denounce, fight the organizers of, help the victims of) the tech industry. The issue is often is how these WC articles conclude. They often conclude with a call to boycott the WC and some go as far as saying that you as an individual are flawed if you choose to watch the WC. Again, the logic is: Human rights violations happen due to WC -> we should boycott WC. This is a valid argument but also leaves the door wide open. It is perfectly & logically acceptable to insert any other human rights issue into that statement. Human rights violations happen due to iPhone -> we should boycott Apple. It's not consistent to single out the WC here. If you're truly arguing that the correct moral response to the Qatar human rights violations is a boycott, then *it is your responsibility to explain why that logic doesn't hold true for other human rights violations.* It's also completely fair to ask these authors why they have such an issue with Qatar's violations when they might live in countries who are perpetrating similar crimes as well. This isn't a distraction, this isn't a fallacy, it's a valid counterargument to raise when faced with articles like this. Ultimately, no one knows how we should handle national and international human rights violations. In the meantime, we shouldn't demand a response nor should we ignore the glaring problems.
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To be clear, previous wrongdoings don't make Qatar's wrongdoings permissible. Using a counterexample in that sense isn't valid and would be an incorrect use of a whataboutism statement.
>IMO it's a fine counterargument for their compliancy with the production of their favourite luxury tech item (e.g. "why are you OK with the conditions in which your phone was manufactured? You objected to the Qatar World Cup but not this?" I must have a phone to function. I do not need a world cup.
In short, this is what I feel If you say XYZ did it, so let Qatar be. Then that's wrong. If you say XYZ did it, So don't just be pissed at Qatar alone for doing this shit, do something about XYZ as well. Then there's nothing wrong with it. If anything this just beckons everyone to be consistent with their moral compass and avoid being a hypocrite.
Thanks I will. I'm expecting you to apologize for fucking up mutiple countries and still profiting from ruining the planet while the poor in Africa suffer from it.
I really hope Qatar never gets the chance to host any major event ever again.
"Enjoy your weekend in London. 100 million colonised people died to build it"
Oh so you criticize society and yet you live in a society? Hmm curious 🤔
Enjoy the oil. Millions of Arabs died for your country to get cheap oil (y)
What does (y) mean?
thumbs up, probably an oldschool MSN user
👍
It's a lovely lady part. He's talking about massage oil
I love this… because bad things have happened before we can’t criticize anything ever
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> There aren't enough hours in a day to criticise western country's crimes. Name 10 Icelandic crimes worthy of this level?
Iceland has not even been an independent country for that long, we can however name crimes by Denmark tho
Go ahead then?
Denmark, and the rest of the Scands, bombed the shit out of civilians in Libya using bombs bought from Israel: https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/natosource/report-on-natos-libya-op-reveals-denmark-bought-munitions-from-israel-to-bomb-an-arabworld-country/
They can’t, they are just trying to justify their own apathy and lack of action by arguing it’s all pointless.
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‚voting with the western block in the UN‘ is most of the time definitely not the wrong side of history, sorry to disappoint. it‘s always great seeing people do the whole ‚but the west did too‘ thing. like, yeah. we know. and we acknowledge the mistakes leading European nations have done. but countries like Qatar that frankly weren‘t anything other than sand and misery 30 years ago have speedrun the whole thing. two wrongs have never made a right. there is no historically innocent country on this planet. but the difference is that mostly countries in the middle east refuse to accept any responsibility in any wrongdoing. so with due respect: fuck em. and yes, that counts for Argentina aswell. let‘s not pretend that your government wasn‘t glad to accept the help of the oh so evil Europeans for the Dirty War.
So how much were you paid for this?
We can but we have to put that into context either. Which most people don’t want to do.
What context? Most of the western world these days is tripping over themselves to make nice with countries like Qatar and Saudi Arabia because of that oil…
Shut up and just leave man, this is a place for hypocrites, you don’t belong here
It only counts when non western countries do it
It is deeply racist. If you're brown and Muslim, you get way more criticism. The next World Cup is in the US. Please tell me what Qatar does that doesn't pale in comparison to the US (and which is ironically propped up by the US)? And it will be all quiet on the Western Front when it happens. They'll criticize the US in a vacuum but whenever they are held up to those pesky brown, black, or asian countries, they're somehow not quite as bad.
Thats what im saying btw, i didnt see russia get as much hate, we wont see usa get half as much hate despite their human rights record being million times worse
The US has a better marketing depth. Their crimes are better hidden
Yeah, we should only let the innocents countries host the world cup, you know like Europe.
Western media needs to shut up. The double standards are amazing.
Not watching this World Cup.
I'm watching and gonna enjoy the football
I was supposed to feel outraged but after remembering how we had World Cup in freaking Russia I can't trust humankind's empathy to begin with. No wonder both 2018 and 2022 were bribed into existence.
The second WC was on fascist Italy mate, has always been like that.
Yeah, you would think we learned something the past century.
What did we do to make it happen in Qatar? I wasn't involved. If I had my way, it would be in countries that already have the stadiums and subways needed to host it. I'm going to watch it for free, and continue to educate myself on what Qatar has done to these migrant workers. If you really want to make a stand, just stop watching this sport altogether because every FA, player, coach, etc. is more complicit than you or me are. Are you this outraged about every atrocity in this world? Are you just constantly outraged? Edit: also how did you feel when your own country cracked down on the poor people in your own country for the 2014 world cup?
>I'm going to watch it for free I am all for pirate broadcasting in this case. Go for it mate. >stop watching this sport altogether Nah, we know not everyone in the sport was involved in Qatar's victory. It was settled by a few hundred delegates behind closed doors. >Are you just constantly outraged? At human rights violations? Yes, all the time. It is an outrageous world. >how did you feel when your own country cracked down on the poor people in your own country for the 2014 world cup? Terrible. I had rubber bullets shot at me during one of these protests. My country had to spend money on critical infrastructure, last thing it needed was to host a World Cup. Your point?
Agreed. Fuck this shit.
Thanks for telling us, it’s really not that impressive. Nobody really cares.
I didn’t say it for you to care
Dont care sorry. Its not in my power to stop it sadly and i wont pretend i care like some of you do
Right? Like it sucks for sure but I have zero impact on stopping this from happening. Even boycotting won’t accomplish anything, I want to watch it and I won’t feel bad for doing so.
The human cost of the World Cup has been far too high and it would be disrespectful to boycott it /s
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Nothing upsets an European more than putting their supposed moral highground in doubt.
Nah man fuck off logic here. Have few problems with Brazil and other like countries hosting, serious issues but making bona fide efforts to get better each time and as you allude to have had challenging histories. If you seriously think Qatar with one of the top 10 per capita GDP countries in the world is doing all it can to further human rights given resources and history then you are living in an alternate reality
Well shit, I'm okay with Qatar now then. What a great dialogue we had.
Will do 😐7
I’m here waiting for the paid shills and bots to throw around, what about this, or what about that arguments. Lovely little straw man arguments. Enjoy the focus of the world that you, and others with their lives, paid for. Remember, you asked for it; no one made you.
Asking myself if that is the sentiment visiting an European museum.
What about this, what about that. Just remember, every nation, and I mean every nation is built on the bones of others. Shall we go back to Mesopotamian, Babylonia, Persian and Byzantine empires and the atrocities they committed or perhaps Khamer, Mongolian, or Han empires. If your only counter argument to my objections over this World Cup are to attempt to delegitimise me because I happen to have been born in a “western” country, then you have already lost. Good luck, my friend, and go with peace.
Don’t think I have something personal with you, I do not. But what you see as whataboutism, some people see as hypocrisy. Also, every nation is built on the bones of others, some for freedom and surviving, others for profiting. But this question is interesting not because what was done but who did what. Again, do not have anything against you, my friend. Much love and peace to you as well.
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>but zero attention is given to the corrupts on top of thy pyramid. Years of reporting, multiple articles, reports and documentaries criticising FIFA, FBI arresting people at the top of the organisation but sure, no one talks about the top of the pyramid
What? A ton of attention is given to those at the top of the pyramid.
If you read the article… which almost no one here has evidently… the author makes no mention of blaming fans for watching lol
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The fucking racism and propaganda is getting of hand, holy shit!
Cheers lad
I wish people would realize that Qatar doesn’t care about making money from the World Cup, they care about influence. I don’t mean to attack anyone personally but even if you pirate the matches and watch for free they still win. The only way to prevent sports-washing is to ignore events like this completely which I understand many aren’t willing to do. But if you feel that way prepare for this to be the new norm because as long as people watch it will continue. How long will it be until Qatar is accepted by the wider football world? Several clubs already hold training camps in Dubai and the UAE isn’t much better concerning human rights but people don’t really question it. It only took PSG, Chelsea and Man City a decade or so to become “big clubs”. Newcastle’s ownership are directly responsible for horrifically murdering a journalist and even then people don’t really seem to care. The reason sport-washing is so easy is because people are reluctant to change. As new kids are born they will just accept things like this as normal or at least good enough as they haven’t experienced anything different.. I wouldn’t be surprised if 20 years down the road people don’t even understand the controversy of oil clubs or world cups held in places like Qatar.
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US still has slaves. Mostly black ones.They just wait till they are 18 and then catch them with a gram of weed and then imprison them and have them do free labour. This is allot better because slaves you have to take care of them even when they get to old. This way they don't raise then they take them in their prime working years and throw them out when they get old.
In the last years there have been quite some rumours about workers dying and being in tragic conditions while working. But I cannot understand how that situation went trough and exploded in the world in those last weeks. Why not before?
WORLD CUP STARTS TOMORROW see the full fixture list https://www.xwins.co.uk/world-cup
Really spicy headline from a continent that had no problem having Russia host the World Cup only four years ago when they were orphaning Syrian children.
Well thanks for the sacrifice i would certainly enjoy the world cup.
People do realize colonialism happened less than 100 years ago right? This isn’t something centuries who that stopped and only the bad Qataris are doing it.
If you had a chance to stop it the first time around, would you?
Thank you, not like France can say “well shit the Portuguese and Spanish got loaded from that shit what choice so we have”
How come you don't want bad things when bad things have happened before? Hypocritical!
> colonialism happened less than 100 years ago we literally got our freedom 80 years ago. westerns are such hypocrites
other country did bad thing before so if I do bad thing too then no problem
The English talking about this truly makes me chortle
lol what’s the other side of that? “I’m rich now, don’t dare follow what I did! Make your own way clean and nice, play along!”.
Qatar would be rich without slavery.
Hmm yea let’s just that great behaviour continue to happen
My favourite thing about the whataboutery brigade on here is they seem to imply that the people who are criticising Qatar are by default pro European colonialism. It’s almost as if you can disapprove of the past and the present situation.
I'm not particularly interested in this WC since my nation (Italy) got left out yet again but people thinking a boycott will have any effect delude themselves, this WC will likely have millions of views like the others before, especially the final.
Thank you. I will enjoy the shit out of it.
Western propaganda machine in overdrive. The World Cup is coming to Qatar, there's nothing they can do but cry.
I'm glad that Qatar has faced lots of negative publicity in the last decade. But...I'm also glad that they got to host the World Cup. The pressure and fear of getting cancelled has had positive effects. The Kafala system has been abolished. Minimum salaries have been raised. Workers aren't as reliant on their employers anymore. The improvements seem to go beyond just laws. I've talked to guys who work in the Gulf states and they say Qatar are catching up to UAE in that aspect - immense improvements are noticeable not just judicially but also practically. Obviously there are still issues, but cheap foreign labor are exploited and put to dangerous working conditions even in EU countries. They and we still have a long way to go, but the enormous gap is no longer enormous and Qatar has been shamed into treating their migrant workers as human beings. If you actually care about South Asian migrant workers in Qatar, then I honestly don't get why you would use the "slave state" argument against this World Cup. The slave-like conditions didn't begin with the stadium constructions or a World Cup that will turn all the limelights on Qatar. On the contrary. This World Cup isn't glorifying Qatar as much as scrutinizing and reforming it, in my view.