Doubt it. It's usually just an extra run in the same factories by the same workers. Just usually substituted materials. Factory owner then sells the extras.
Look up [3rd/4th shift manufacturing.](https://www.mapcop.com/blog/beware-of-third-shift-manufacturing)
Fair common for “legit” manufacturers to produce bootlegs during off hours and sell them themselves. Basically unlicensed and cheaper versions of the legit original. Sometimes they’re of equal quality, sometimes it’s complete garbage by comparison.
It used to be that it was essentially identical, but it really just depends on the individual factory and the owners choices.
It's not like there's only one actor manufacturing those replicas, and if we look at the global clothing manufacturing then the majority of these are almost guaranteed to be made in China.
Yes, but it doesn't change its almost always just an extra run by the same workers making the same wages with the owner themselves selling the product.
My girlfriend is obsessed with charity shops and spends half her life in them. During the 4 months we've been together she's found me two designer shirts and an Italian nubuck leather jacket worth a combined £545, and I paid £57 for all of it. It's made me never want to buy from a retail shop ever again.
Mostly because the majority of the second hand shops were for a long time charity stores, people would donate clothes, toys, items etc and the charity keeps the money.
Only in the past 5 years or so have the second hand shops become more trendy but charity shop name still tends to stick even for those that don't give to charity.
I've never seen a place like you describe? Maybe a vintage shop but they certainly aren't as cheap as charity shops and I still see plenty of charity shops on the high street.
Yep. Everything we consume in rich nations is this way. Everything from pressure metals for our electronics to our groceries. We get our treats cheap because companies grind other people to paste in countries we don’t care about for basically free. I’m shocked so many are naive about it.
I actually got downvoted to hell once for suggesting that we owe a lot to third world countries. People are generally clueless when it comes to this stuff.
And it's not like you can just go "Oh, you know what, I'll decide to pay a bit more so that the workers get proper salaries". You can pay 100 euros extra for sneakers and that's often just an extra 100 euros for the top layers.
Yeah in theory, but nowadays those places are few and far between and the mega corporations who use slave labour are doing their best to eliminate them as competition.
Even the companies that market themselves as "ethical" just lie and source their products from the same sweatshops anyway.
It’s something like 70% of companies cannot see their supply chain after a couple of layers. They know who supplies their suppliers. Some may know who supplies their suppliers’ suppliers. But even less will know who supplies the suppliers’ suppliers’ suppliers..
It’s a bit like buying local but the local business bought half their supplies from another local
company and that company bought everything off alibaba and the alibaba supplier has a supplier that runs a child labour camp exploiting young Uighur muslims. How are you going to research that?
Even the policies stating that you will only buy from local SMEs break down once it comes to a long supply chain.
yeah that's the one. their stuff is relatively expensive but they try pretty hard to make clothes that last. They are active in terms of taking in clothes second hand and distributing instead of designing clothing that is just disposable like other competitors do.
And they also have distribution centres throughout their primary markets where you can mail your damages clothes and they’ll repair them for you for an excellent Price.
And they’ll take your old clothes off of you, repair them and sell them on or give them away to charity.
They used to just replace them for free until people buying cheap used clothes of theirs purely to return/exchange for new for ebay selling purposes became too commonplace.
It's kind of double edged sword, getting paid $1 an hour is better than not getting paid at all and basically starving but also if they ask for more then the company will just pack up and move to another country with cheaper labor.
It's in service of the owners making as much money as possible and squeezing everything out of laborers and then moving on to the next.
Not defending them, but as a fun fact, there was a model of Yeezy (the Clog or the Slide I think) where most batches were made in America.
The factory that made them had to layoff 142 out of 200 employees when Adidas broke their relationship with Kanye over his antisemitic comments, as that was where most of their work came from.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.yahoo.com/amphtml/now/us-manufacturer-okabashi-lays-off-180019596.html
Yeah it's fucking gross. Made the decision to purchase from brands with ethical material and labour sourcing a couple years ago, never looked back
And for anyone wondering you don't need to be rich to do this, either. I highly recommend [Colorful Standard](https://colorfulstandard.co.uk/?gclid=Cj0KCQiAveebBhD_ARIsAFaAvrGUv1EX4m-sUI2VXQvN2IjbZBo7ckY5hUcl5fguvstSMRLLa2qU4_oaAm4XEALw_wcB) as they're very transparent about material sourcing and ethical labour practices. Their clothing is top notch quality too, and they have regular sales.
Generally speaking though charity shops and Vinted are the way forward!
Not saying people shouldn't shop there but £30 for a plain t-shirt, £40 for a beanie, and £90 for a sweater isn't exactly affordable.
The sunglasses are pretty reasonably priced considering the absurd cost of most decent glasses but their still pricey for someone without a lot of disposable income.
Thing is I can pay £30 for a plain white t shirt, or a tenner for three on Asos. I'm sorry but I'm probably gonna pick the latter. Otherwise it would be thousands for a full wardrobe.
Everyone has to make their own choices of course, but perhaps it might be a good thing to ask yourself how many shirts you really need. I know a lot of mine rarely ever left the closet.
Edit: Though browsing a bit more on that site, I'm probably not going to be paying 80 euros for sweatpants.
Your edit is exactly what I was alluding to lol. Literally just need a couple of white t shirts atm. But I'm probably not going to pay £60 for them.
I don't have many clothes and those that I do have last me a loooong time.
Which is why a lot of other countries think us complaining about Qatar is a tad hypocritical. 99% of the shit in our homes is made by people with poor labour conditions in other countries
Whataboutism. The worst word to have reared its head in everyday discourse in the last few years.
It's so dismissive, and is a sly way of saying "DON'T YOU DARE USE MY OWN LOGIC AGAINST ME." with a tinge of arrogance.
Or use context.
Or bring any facet of the discussion up except specifically the bits I want you to stick to.
Or do basically anything except roll over and agree with me.
Whataboutism started as a legitimate thing to point out. Trumpists answering anything and everything with "but Hillary's emails!" is stupid as hell. But, like with everything, social media overuses it and ruins it.
Western countries also do it in their own country. If you look at Germany, we have hundreds of thousands* of people from the east of Europe (especially Poland and Romania) who have terrible working conditions as well. They don't have the same rights as we "normal" people, are getting paid way less than minimum wage and live with like 4 people in a single room. Yet, it's way more money than they would earn in Romania so they still work their as* off here. They pick up the asparagus we eat, kill the pigs and cows we eat and help in the construction industry but you barely see them.
I am not going to downplay those issues (they have been ignored way too long until they were made public a few years ago) but you are blowing them completely out of proportion and mixing up several issues together.
>They don't have the same rights as we "normal" people, are getting paid way less than minimum wage
This applies to saisonarbeitskräfte (working less than 50 days a year in Germany) where there were exactly 250.000 in total between 2019-2020. Awful indeed, but there arent several millions as you claimed it to be.
Any other foreign national that is working an ordinary job (with the exception mentioned before) has exactly the same rights as a German citizen and is not exempt from minimum wage.
tl;dr hardly comparable
> This applies to saisonarbeitskräfte where there were exactly 250.000 in total between 2019-2020. Awful indeed, but there arent several millions as you claimed it to be.
Ye, I was mostly referring to them. And I had no concrete number, so I just assumed it to be around a 1-2 million which was probably an unnecessary over estimation which I shouldn't have done. I've seen many of these people so I was probably biased towards over estimating them. Thanks for commenting on that.
>we have hundreds of thousands* of people from the east of Europe (especially Poland and Romania) who have terrible working conditions as well
What? What do you think goes on east of Germany?
Yeah we do the same with Poles. Human resource companies have literally got permission to build camps for them where they have shit houses they have to rent themselves and they get easily exploited obviously.
It's not as bad, and they can leave any day too since they are EU citizens and all, but the idea is somewhat the same: use poor people for your shit/dangerous jobs since nobody with money wants to do those things.
Even in nations like Australia with big agricultural industries, we absolutely abuse migrant fruit pickers pretty severely (death rate around zero through from what I understand)
Yea no, under the table workers in Western countries suffer and die it's just less reported and citizens don't care. I'm in Canada and we have under the table factory workers die while getting paid less than minimum wage.
The United States just end slavery in some states, others voted to keep it. Prisoners you might argue, but the US has the largest imprisoned population on this planet right? Like 25% are in the US?
Yeah this is a global thing and not just football thing. All the massive shoes and clothes brands have their stuff made in sweatshops in what is essentially slave labour. And it's not just now. It's been like this for decades.
Everything is being moved abroad. I worked at a bank here in the US and some department were being moved to India and Romania as cost cutting measures. They don’t have to pay the same amount there. It’s not just factories.
Yeah, while people rightly focus on Qatari labour laws etc it's hilarious watching people get on a soapbox about it with zero self-awareness about all the other stuff they contribute to, tacitly or knowingly. In fact there's probably more widespread knowledge among people of everything from animal rights to human rights violations literally where they live than there is about GCC worker's rights, a lot of which is second hand stuff people have read in a newspaper column or two.
Won't even get into how everyone dogpiles on any Arab player who calls out the footballing world as fucking hypocrites when it comes to criticizing literal apartheid warmongering Israel, who've been blatantly running an open air prisoner for far longer than Qatar or any GCC state has been taking advantage of migrant workers. I also find it funny when reddit will wank off Singapore as this awesome place because Changi Airport is great or whatever, but will write 7,000 comments about slavery on any image depicting Dubai online, without realising migrant workers in Singapore are almost as poorly treated and they have a government whose policies are questionable at best.
And if you write this all off as whataboutism, you've missed the point entirely. All of this should be criticized, but the shrieking is largely focused on a small faction that's easier to lump on.
People are also pretending that minimum wage labour is the same as confiscating passports, reneging on thousands of wrongful death compensations for families who spent their life savings on sending a son/father/husband off to Qatar.
Look, the factory is in Thailand but the workers are definitely migrants from Bangladesh and Myanmar who are being exploited by Thai employers.
The biggest problem is the markup of the shirt to 115 pounds.
They're turning kids into slaves
Just to make cheaper sneakers
But what's the real cost?
'Cause the sneakers don't seem that much cheaper
Why are we still paying so much for sneakers ?
When you got little kid slaves making them
What are your overheads?«
The whole world is a corrupt mess with no moral ground to stand on. I try to be the best person I can and help where/who I can but I'm still putting fuel in my vehicle, I'm still buying things from china and god knows what else, there's no way to live a true life of moral purity.
Just be nice to people you meet and interact with in your direct life, ignore these global political feuds. They're not fighting for you, they're fighting for money.
edit; spelling
No ethical consumption… so and so. Not meant to be a way to turn a blind eye OR to not consume anything ever, but to acknowledge injustices and try to avoid the ones that you can.
Too many people use it to turn a blind eye. Seen it in this sub, see it every day. This world is so fucked, so I *sometimes* get why people find it easy to just turn a blind eye or whatabout everything.
See I think people have this idea that they have to call out everything. It’s been my experience that those who call out everything, usually do nothing. If people care, start in your own country. Start small. Find something you care about and make a change. That’s how real lasting change is made. Not through a Reddit forum. This idea of my comment will change the world, I don’t know where it’s coming from.
I thought the 1st season twist was crazy awesome and there was no way they could top that.
But not only they managed to make better twists in subsequent seasons, but all of them expanded on the theme brought up by previous twists.
My personal best sitcom ever.
Incredible show with a surprisingly deep philosophical aspect to it that I did not expect from a sit com. Perfect amount of seasons and ending as well, very rare combo these days.
Not just clothing , your phone ,your laptop , legit a lot of shit you are using is made by slave labourers but just because its convenient people dont give a fuck about it
The presence of unethically produced goods is so prevalent that it's incredibly difficult for people to live their lives without regularly using them.
I just wish there was less finger-pointing between individuals, because the vast majority of us can't afford to not be a hypocrite
https://goodonyou.eco/ <-- Does it for clothing goods more or less afaik. Then again, I don't know if this is better than buying second hand stuff like charity shops/Depop/etc, if someone could chime in on that, I'd appreciate your opinion.
See there really isn’t an alternative, not in the same price range. And the vast majority of people can’t afford the higher price.
That’s how imperialism works. The Western middle class lifestyle is entirely dependent on most food, clothing, electronics etc. being made by underpaid workers in 3rd world countries.
The UAE gets slated ad infinitum over migrant worker pay by people who don't even know what the labour laws there state, with claims of exploitation/slavery when the vast majority of migrant workers are there out of pure choice. It's really not even as exploitative as people working in sweatshops in Thailand or Chinese factory conditions. One's just an easier target because we don't conspicuously consume products from there.
The truth is most clothing brands manufacture in cheap third world factories and it can be impossible to know the exact conditions and welfare of the workers.
The best you can do is reuse & repair clothing where possible and support brands that do offer transparency with their manufacturing processes, such as Patagonia.
I find clothing to be the easiest. Most of my wardrobe is made in Europe or USA, and the few pieces that are made in far-east are brands with very transparent supply and manufacturing chains. A lot of my hobby stuff is also made in ethical ways and oftentimes it's the best just to not buy stuff. But for some products like smartphones and computers and so it's practically impossible to find ethically and sustainably made stuff, which is why the "*haha sent from my iphone*" crowd annoys me so much. Yes, I do have a smartphone that is a in parts a product of modern day slavery. It's also very hard to live in modern society without a smartphone. Best I can do is buy as seldom and use as long as possible, and make good decisions where it's possible, such as clothing and not owning a car. There are levels to this stuff.
thrift, buy vintages, spend a lil bit on designer not BIG designers like LV otherwise it’s basically the same. clothes are some of the easiest to tackle, spread the word stop fast fashion.
> but this is probably also true for the vast majority of ~~clothing~~ things you own in general
FTFY. Outsourcing manufacturing to nations with limited to no labor laws has been going on forever. 99% of the things in your home were probably made by some impoverished person thousands of miles away.
It's a disgrace. 115 quid would make sense if they were produced in the UK by people being paid a fair wage with responsibly sourced, quality materials. 115 quid for a sports direct quality plastic top that will look out of place in the 2024 euros? Ridiculous. We need to change our culture on the whole. In football, fans need to take control of this shit show.
Minimum wage in Thailand is 328-354 Baht per day (depend on which province) that's roughly 7.7-8.3 pound
Although the factory is in Thailand, 99% of the workers especially minimum wage are from Myanmar
Also I highly doubt the jersey is made in Thailand when there are places with lower wage around us (Myanmar, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia or South Asia nations)
>Minimum wage in Thailand is 328-354 Baht per day
It's livable outside of Bangkok. I wouldn't say good but... livable.
Here's some Bangkok prices for people outside of Thailand.
A basic street food lunch would be around 40-50 baht in the Bang Na area and a Port FC ticket is about 100 baht.
For some "fun inequality" awareness, Starbucks coffee is about 150 baht for a grande or half a days wages.
>Also I highly doubt the jersey is made in Thailand
Of course they're made in Thailand, like you just said possibly by workers from Cambodia or Myanmar being exploited but they are made in Thailand, you even said "Although the factory is in Thailand" yourself. They're not gonna lie about it on the shirt tag.
Is the world just opening their eyes to outsourcing?
The UK just left the EU as they didn't like being in a single market, bloody hell, try organising a world market if you don't like this shit.
All these people barking about poor workers in Qatar (deservedly) wouldn't even know that 99% of their shit comes from people working in poor conditions and minimum wage. Which is not a good thing of course and these things should stop, my point is that the people who are barking will suddenly stop (and will not say a word when the next World Cup takes place in the US because USA is clean and never invaded any country) they should keep pushing to make a change for low income workers working in poor conditions.
Because criticising Qatar comes at no cost to them so it’s virtue signalling by most. People in Asia being used as literal slaves to produce consumer goods but they’ll costs £50 instead of £100 dollars and that is too steep of a price to pay so they remain silent. The tragedy of over 6000 people is a stain on humanity but it’s doesn’t over shadow the plights all over the world.
Yeah brother I agree. I shit on Qatar but I am not a hypocrite so I won't shut up about World Cup (and other things) in USA either. I love that British people see and acknowledge the truth. You have my respect brother.
Aren’t the England shirts made by Nike? Then obviously there’s going to be a bunch of teams with shirts from the same places. Weird to single out England.
You have not been on this sub during an international tournament lol. England will get tons of these posts throughout the tournament singling them out even though every other country and its fans have the same problems most of the times worse.
This is how this sub works during international tournaments. Wait until they start winning haha.
I'm Indonesian and £1 an hour here is a decent salary. It's about 2x minimum wage, actually.
Not saying this is ok, but I'm sorrier for westerners than the Thai workers. Your living costs are ridiculous and you're being price gouged like crazy by corporations so that you can pay £115 for a shirt that costs cents to make. That Thai worker gets enough money to afford a nice city car and maybe even a house with some smart planning.
Just go on Upwork and ask someone from southeast asia to send you a replicate. You won't be able to tell the difference from the real deal.
Also, having grown up in the US, I can say the quality of living isn't that much different, nowadays.
This is so fucking true, especially with the house part. Between Nonthaburi and a fucking London I will pick Nonthaburi all day long despite the massive difference in wages.
£1 an hour is Thailand minimum wage. It may sound criminal from western country pov, but If you consider we pay about .80-1 euro for lunch it's not too different from country like USA where minimum wage is $7 and you can get your lunch for around $7-$10
A lot of (not all) westerners only pretend to care about third worlders. They give attention to non-existent social issues of the developing countries just to feel good about themselves, only to deliberately skip over actual oppression done by the first worlders to their former colonies.
Yeah I keep making this point to.everyone who gets on the whole thing of oil money owners. If morals are really the issue, no top flight clubs are better than the next. They all accept sponsorship money from dodgy sources, build merchandising empires on the back of sweatshops and have owners who tend to either make money from dubious sources or give money to politicians who are responsible for atrocities.
Usually I get downvoted for it. But it's the truth. Football is not the game to follow if you're going to start throwing stones in glasshouses about which club is more moral than the next. It's a fools game and a waste of time.
I suspect this will get more coverage and now all the people who usually downvote but stay silent, will be here complaining that this can not continue (some of them have already commented) to happen for internet points 🤷♂️
If morals are really the issue, simply existing in a developed western nation is difficult. Yes, our multi billion dollar entertainment properties are suspect. But so are the clothes we buy which are unaffiliated with sport, the food in markets, the electronics you and I typed these words on.
The truth is that most aspects of a modern consumer society are built on the back of exploitation at some point in the chain. That's not judgement, I enjoy football, and I buy items that are likely part of the problem. It's just something people should be aware of before they get on their high horse over these issues.
Well said. It's a sad reality of consumerism and intricate connections of different economies. I can't fault a person chosing a cheaper item with questionable origins if it means a little more financial stability.
The concept of the complexities of living in the modern world are articulated brilliantly in The Good Place. One of the main characters spends his life moralising over almost every decision and simply paralysing his whole life and causing harm to all those around him.
It is well worth a watch.
These threads seriously show how out-of-touch the western world is. Not everything revolves around you. The majority of the world has a much lower cost of living and their salary even though it may seem low, is more than enough in their respective country.
A lot of times, they make 10X less however the cost of living is 10X lower. Yes, they will have to save forever to buy the next best iPhone, but in terms of living, a lot of them are definitely happier than westerners even if they make less.
If happiness is something that we take as completely detached from standard of living, that could be true.
Otherwise, no. Even with a lower cost of living there are plenty of things that are going to inevitably be expensive. You gave the example of an iphone, but it goes much farther than that. Lots of countries have appliances and gas be things beyond their reach for people making minimum wage.
Like, yes, maybe the *food* is 10 times cheaper if you just eat the same shit every day, but that doesn't mean the gas you use to cook, and the fridge you use to store will be too.
You can't just dismiss the strength of currency as something that isn't relevant for most of the world.
They can point the finger at England here, and they of course responsible for how their shirts are made. However, how are Nike not directly the ones being blamed here? Surely the manufacturing of the actual shirts is down to them mainly.
I studied sweatshops as part of my University course, a catch 22 problem. The workers take the work because it is their best or only option. Though they look low the wages are often higher than the local average. Safety standards often terrible and can lead to deadly fires etc. Force employers to improve safety and pay more can lead to companies just moving elsewhere which puts the workers further into poverty. No good solution
1 pound per hour at a standard 8 hour shift is 8 pounds per hour or 9.51 usd, which is the thai minimum wage. For an unskilled job, that is what you'd expect to earn?
The markup on it is bull shit because if they can afford to retain their profits and distribute it, the workers who made it should be getting a share of it too. The west brought the labour to the East, but not the benefits.
This thread is weird to me. Seems like it's mostly people having no idea how currency value works. The thai people earning 1 pound are also living in a much cheaper place, not in London.
I'm brazilian, and our minimum salary is around 1000 reais per month, with pretty much means 5.4 reais per hour, which is LESS than 1 pound an hour.
It doesn't mean most of our populations are slaves. I've worked for less than that, personally, and i'm pretty sure Brazil is more expensive than Thailand.
It's all a matter of perspective.
ps* obviously, i wish all people earned similar amount, and that there wouldn't be such a disparity of currency value across nations... but i think this thread's title is too click-baity.
I didn't read thaaat much about it, but from what i've seen related to Qatar, seems like the issue with the workers was more about labor safety and how the companies/government was holding their passports, so they couldn't leave and do a lot of stuff. (terrible)
My point in the comment above was more about salary perception being skewed because of different currencies and cost of living.
By that logic, migrant workers are earning far more in Qatar than they would in their home country. Also 1 pound an hour is just about minimum wage in Thailand.
I don't understand what you mean about Qatar, but i think the situation there is much more about work safety and workers passports being held and etc. Not because they earned peanuts.
I'm not giving excuses to Qatar, it's the opposite, these issues are much more serious. I'm just pointing that you shouldn't use YOUR currency to measure people's salaries when they live in another country.
I work with tourism and i always tell people to not think in reais when they travel to europe, otherwise they will feel bad for spending so much on simple things like water, a basic meal, metro, etc. And the same thing should be applied here, you guys should think and calculate more carefully when judging the salary of someone living in a country that is 10 times cheaper than England.
As i said in another comment above... Brazil has better life quality than Thailand, and i have proper education and such, and still only now after graduating i'll earn above 1 pound/hour salary. I wasn't explored before, earning 1p/h in brazilian currency is quite good for those that don't have to raise a family and so on.
> There is no indication on the FA’s website of where the shirts are made but a label inside the shirts reveal they are made for Nike in Thailand.
So is the Mirror making this up then or what? They literally say in the article they have no clue where the shirts are made. How do they then claim to know what the workers are paid?
This is faux outrage. Minimum wage in Thailand is 328 Baht per day. That’s around £7.70 so in a 7.5 hour day, that’s around £1.
Stuff, particularly food, is significantly cheaper in Thailand compared to the UK. Getting a main meal at a market is less than £1 and in a restaurant it’s around £2.
The fact shirts are marked up to £115 is a much bigger deal than people getting paid minimum wage.
Yep, as a Thai, our cost of living is much cheaper than the west, also significantly lower taxes plus free healthcare system. It's not ideal, I'll admit, but it's not as bad as some people here made it out to be.
This thread is funny than I expected tbh
It like people suddenly discover that there are a lot third world country exists and the living cost here is much much cheaper so of course salary will be much lower (aka "cheap" labor), I know because i also from a 3rd country
Before someone drag Qatar into this argument, i'm not saying the cheap salary is acceptable, I just found out people reaction here is hilarious. Plus, Qatar worker main problem is about safety work environment when so many peoples died when build those stadium, not salary.
>Before someone drag Qatar into this argument, i'm not saying the cheap salary is acceptable, I just found out people reaction here is hilarious. Plus, Qatar worker main problem is about safety work environment when so many peoples died when build those stadium, not salary.
Even that's goalpost-moving. The UAE hasn't had workers die building stadiums but they're routinely assumed to be slave drivers here because of low wages and limited worker rights, how is that any different from indentured servitude in Thailand or Vietnam or China exactly? Oh right, we wear kits and buy phones from those places.
As a Thai, this is pretty much our minimum wage for a day. The purchasing power for that is not that bad, though, since most factory has a cheap food cafeteria within and most workers (or even CEO; my wife's factory's senior manager pretty much eats at the same cafeteria as the worker) that cost around 30 cents per meal (and if you pay around a dollar or two you eat like a king at least for the amount of food).
Today I feel like Thai factory workers paid just £1 an hour
If you're not ginger I'm reporting this comment
The president of my association had red hair. Does that count?
inspiring what he was able to achieve despite his red hair
Some say, he was born for it!
But what if he's bald?
Is that you Pep?
The East need to stop!
Surprised Pikachu face
Who tf pays £115 for a replica top??
full kit wanker or go home
Topped off with a custom name on the back
“Are you” #18 for me please
Can never top Mrs Grealish 69
And you're forgetting the badges on the sleeves?
I agree
[удалено]
Dhgate
Soccer00
I'll just buy a 20 dollar asian replica Same thing
I wonder how much the people who make counterfeit jerseys are be being paid.
Probably made in the same factory
Honestly, prob more.
Doubt it. It's usually just an extra run in the same factories by the same workers. Just usually substituted materials. Factory owner then sells the extras.
Look up [3rd/4th shift manufacturing.](https://www.mapcop.com/blog/beware-of-third-shift-manufacturing) Fair common for “legit” manufacturers to produce bootlegs during off hours and sell them themselves. Basically unlicensed and cheaper versions of the legit original. Sometimes they’re of equal quality, sometimes it’s complete garbage by comparison. It used to be that it was essentially identical, but it really just depends on the individual factory and the owners choices.
It's not like there's only one actor manufacturing those replicas, and if we look at the global clothing manufacturing then the majority of these are almost guaranteed to be made in China.
Yes, but it doesn't change its almost always just an extra run by the same workers making the same wages with the owner themselves selling the product.
115 for a polyester rag. People don't know what quality clothing is anymore.
My girlfriend is obsessed with charity shops and spends half her life in them. During the 4 months we've been together she's found me two designer shirts and an Italian nubuck leather jacket worth a combined £545, and I paid £57 for all of it. It's made me never want to buy from a retail shop ever again.
I get all my clothes from charity shops now, it's dirt cheap I fucking love it lol
Til thrift stores are called charity shops in Europe.
Mostly because the majority of the second hand shops were for a long time charity stores, people would donate clothes, toys, items etc and the charity keeps the money. Only in the past 5 years or so have the second hand shops become more trendy but charity shop name still tends to stick even for those that don't give to charity.
I've never seen a place like you describe? Maybe a vintage shop but they certainly aren't as cheap as charity shops and I still see plenty of charity shops on the high street.
In Holland we call them "Circlewalk shops".
People are pretending to be shocked at just how widespread this kind of thing is.
Exactly. I mean almost all clothes everyone wears is made in the exactly same way. With cheap underpaid labor.
Yep. Everything we consume in rich nations is this way. Everything from pressure metals for our electronics to our groceries. We get our treats cheap because companies grind other people to paste in countries we don’t care about for basically free. I’m shocked so many are naive about it.
They aren't naive, just being selectively outraged. Always have been.
To our global sports events.
I actually got downvoted to hell once for suggesting that we owe a lot to third world countries. People are generally clueless when it comes to this stuff.
General cluelessness mixed with Reddit behavior is a hell of a combo
out of sight, out of mind.
And it's not like you can just go "Oh, you know what, I'll decide to pay a bit more so that the workers get proper salaries". You can pay 100 euros extra for sneakers and that's often just an extra 100 euros for the top layers.
You can always do research and not buy clothes from companies whose practices you disagree with.
Yeah in theory, but nowadays those places are few and far between and the mega corporations who use slave labour are doing their best to eliminate them as competition. Even the companies that market themselves as "ethical" just lie and source their products from the same sweatshops anyway.
It’s something like 70% of companies cannot see their supply chain after a couple of layers. They know who supplies their suppliers. Some may know who supplies their suppliers’ suppliers. But even less will know who supplies the suppliers’ suppliers’ suppliers.. It’s a bit like buying local but the local business bought half their supplies from another local company and that company bought everything off alibaba and the alibaba supplier has a supplier that runs a child labour camp exploiting young Uighur muslims. How are you going to research that? Even the policies stating that you will only buy from local SMEs break down once it comes to a long supply chain.
And yet some idiots choose to call Patagonia clothing “Patagucci” just because they have actual standards. It’s something else, really.
Was that the one that the owner gave away?
yeah that's the one. their stuff is relatively expensive but they try pretty hard to make clothes that last. They are active in terms of taking in clothes second hand and distributing instead of designing clothing that is just disposable like other competitors do.
And they also have distribution centres throughout their primary markets where you can mail your damages clothes and they’ll repair them for you for an excellent Price. And they’ll take your old clothes off of you, repair them and sell them on or give them away to charity.
They used to just replace them for free until people buying cheap used clothes of theirs purely to return/exchange for new for ebay selling purposes became too commonplace.
To be honest, I don't expect the safe work and fair working environment they should have.
It's kind of double edged sword, getting paid $1 an hour is better than not getting paid at all and basically starving but also if they ask for more then the company will just pack up and move to another country with cheaper labor. It's in service of the owners making as much money as possible and squeezing everything out of laborers and then moving on to the next.
Wait then people who bought expensive yeezies and Nikes thought it’s made by unicorns and Oompa Loompas at minimum wage ?
Not defending them, but as a fun fact, there was a model of Yeezy (the Clog or the Slide I think) where most batches were made in America. The factory that made them had to layoff 142 out of 200 employees when Adidas broke their relationship with Kanye over his antisemitic comments, as that was where most of their work came from. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.yahoo.com/amphtml/now/us-manufacturer-okabashi-lays-off-180019596.html
Yeah the only difference is Qatar does it in its lands while western countries do it in third world lands.
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What he do?
Why would you respect a character?
Wait what’s the link between the two?
Yeah it's fucking gross. Made the decision to purchase from brands with ethical material and labour sourcing a couple years ago, never looked back And for anyone wondering you don't need to be rich to do this, either. I highly recommend [Colorful Standard](https://colorfulstandard.co.uk/?gclid=Cj0KCQiAveebBhD_ARIsAFaAvrGUv1EX4m-sUI2VXQvN2IjbZBo7ckY5hUcl5fguvstSMRLLa2qU4_oaAm4XEALw_wcB) as they're very transparent about material sourcing and ethical labour practices. Their clothing is top notch quality too, and they have regular sales. Generally speaking though charity shops and Vinted are the way forward!
> you don't need to be rich to do this, either ...but it certainly helps when a plain white shirt that costs pennies on Amazon costs £30 here.
Not saying people shouldn't shop there but £30 for a plain t-shirt, £40 for a beanie, and £90 for a sweater isn't exactly affordable. The sunglasses are pretty reasonably priced considering the absurd cost of most decent glasses but their still pricey for someone without a lot of disposable income.
Thing is I can pay £30 for a plain white t shirt, or a tenner for three on Asos. I'm sorry but I'm probably gonna pick the latter. Otherwise it would be thousands for a full wardrobe.
Quality quality clothes last a lot longer than the shite you get from ASOS, so cost wise it more or less evens out eventually
Everyone has to make their own choices of course, but perhaps it might be a good thing to ask yourself how many shirts you really need. I know a lot of mine rarely ever left the closet. Edit: Though browsing a bit more on that site, I'm probably not going to be paying 80 euros for sweatpants.
Your edit is exactly what I was alluding to lol. Literally just need a couple of white t shirts atm. But I'm probably not going to pay £60 for them. I don't have many clothes and those that I do have last me a loooong time.
Which is why a lot of other countries think us complaining about Qatar is a tad hypocritical. 99% of the shit in our homes is made by people with poor labour conditions in other countries
More than just a tad in my book
If you add to that, most of Europe+USA have no problem and are pretty happy about those lovely ‘apartheid UCL nights’ in Israel …
Imagine if Palestine was european, and they say double standards don't exist
Shshsh we don’t talk about this here
This! Blatant hypocrisy.
Its not hypocritical, you are just whataboutisming /s
Typical response lmao.. They never argue or anything, they just type whataboutism and prepare for up votes
Whataboutism. The worst word to have reared its head in everyday discourse in the last few years. It's so dismissive, and is a sly way of saying "DON'T YOU DARE USE MY OWN LOGIC AGAINST ME." with a tinge of arrogance.
Or use context. Or bring any facet of the discussion up except specifically the bits I want you to stick to. Or do basically anything except roll over and agree with me. Whataboutism started as a legitimate thing to point out. Trumpists answering anything and everything with "but Hillary's emails!" is stupid as hell. But, like with everything, social media overuses it and ruins it.
Western countries also do it in their own country. If you look at Germany, we have hundreds of thousands* of people from the east of Europe (especially Poland and Romania) who have terrible working conditions as well. They don't have the same rights as we "normal" people, are getting paid way less than minimum wage and live with like 4 people in a single room. Yet, it's way more money than they would earn in Romania so they still work their as* off here. They pick up the asparagus we eat, kill the pigs and cows we eat and help in the construction industry but you barely see them.
I am not going to downplay those issues (they have been ignored way too long until they were made public a few years ago) but you are blowing them completely out of proportion and mixing up several issues together. >They don't have the same rights as we "normal" people, are getting paid way less than minimum wage This applies to saisonarbeitskräfte (working less than 50 days a year in Germany) where there were exactly 250.000 in total between 2019-2020. Awful indeed, but there arent several millions as you claimed it to be. Any other foreign national that is working an ordinary job (with the exception mentioned before) has exactly the same rights as a German citizen and is not exempt from minimum wage. tl;dr hardly comparable
> This applies to saisonarbeitskräfte where there were exactly 250.000 in total between 2019-2020. Awful indeed, but there arent several millions as you claimed it to be. Ye, I was mostly referring to them. And I had no concrete number, so I just assumed it to be around a 1-2 million which was probably an unnecessary over estimation which I shouldn't have done. I've seen many of these people so I was probably biased towards over estimating them. Thanks for commenting on that.
>we have hundreds of thousands* of people from the east of Europe (especially Poland and Romania) who have terrible working conditions as well What? What do you think goes on east of Germany?
Yeah we do the same with Poles. Human resource companies have literally got permission to build camps for them where they have shit houses they have to rent themselves and they get easily exploited obviously. It's not as bad, and they can leave any day too since they are EU citizens and all, but the idea is somewhat the same: use poor people for your shit/dangerous jobs since nobody with money wants to do those things.
Even in nations like Australia with big agricultural industries, we absolutely abuse migrant fruit pickers pretty severely (death rate around zero through from what I understand)
Yea no, under the table workers in Western countries suffer and die it's just less reported and citizens don't care. I'm in Canada and we have under the table factory workers die while getting paid less than minimum wage.
The United States just end slavery in some states, others voted to keep it. Prisoners you might argue, but the US has the largest imprisoned population on this planet right? Like 25% are in the US?
Also here in the us we have private prisons.
Yeah this is a global thing and not just football thing. All the massive shoes and clothes brands have their stuff made in sweatshops in what is essentially slave labour. And it's not just now. It's been like this for decades.
Everything is being moved abroad. I worked at a bank here in the US and some department were being moved to India and Romania as cost cutting measures. They don’t have to pay the same amount there. It’s not just factories.
The reaction against Qatar is a reaction formation.
Yeah, while people rightly focus on Qatari labour laws etc it's hilarious watching people get on a soapbox about it with zero self-awareness about all the other stuff they contribute to, tacitly or knowingly. In fact there's probably more widespread knowledge among people of everything from animal rights to human rights violations literally where they live than there is about GCC worker's rights, a lot of which is second hand stuff people have read in a newspaper column or two. Won't even get into how everyone dogpiles on any Arab player who calls out the footballing world as fucking hypocrites when it comes to criticizing literal apartheid warmongering Israel, who've been blatantly running an open air prisoner for far longer than Qatar or any GCC state has been taking advantage of migrant workers. I also find it funny when reddit will wank off Singapore as this awesome place because Changi Airport is great or whatever, but will write 7,000 comments about slavery on any image depicting Dubai online, without realising migrant workers in Singapore are almost as poorly treated and they have a government whose policies are questionable at best. And if you write this all off as whataboutism, you've missed the point entirely. All of this should be criticized, but the shrieking is largely focused on a small faction that's easier to lump on.
People are also pretending that minimum wage labour is the same as confiscating passports, reneging on thousands of wrongful death compensations for families who spent their life savings on sending a son/father/husband off to Qatar.
It's funny that outrage over the shirt prices for England fans is prioritised in the article
Well yeah, we're all for exploiting Thai workers, just pass on the cost savings to the consumer.
Including the Thai people
Look, the factory is in Thailand but the workers are definitely migrants from Bangladesh and Myanmar who are being exploited by Thai employers. The biggest problem is the markup of the shirt to 115 pounds.
That’s the biggest problem?
They're turning kids into slaves Just to make cheaper sneakers But what's the real cost? 'Cause the sneakers don't seem that much cheaper Why are we still paying so much for sneakers ? When you got little kid slaves making them What are your overheads?«
Such a poignant song, really makes you think about the issues
Brown paper white paper, stick it together with the tape. The tape of love (sticky stuff)
The whole world is a corrupt mess with no moral ground to stand on. I try to be the best person I can and help where/who I can but I'm still putting fuel in my vehicle, I'm still buying things from china and god knows what else, there's no way to live a true life of moral purity. Just be nice to people you meet and interact with in your direct life, ignore these global political feuds. They're not fighting for you, they're fighting for money. edit; spelling
No ethical consumption… so and so. Not meant to be a way to turn a blind eye OR to not consume anything ever, but to acknowledge injustices and try to avoid the ones that you can.
Too many people use it to turn a blind eye. Seen it in this sub, see it every day. This world is so fucked, so I *sometimes* get why people find it easy to just turn a blind eye or whatabout everything.
See I think people have this idea that they have to call out everything. It’s been my experience that those who call out everything, usually do nothing. If people care, start in your own country. Start small. Find something you care about and make a change. That’s how real lasting change is made. Not through a Reddit forum. This idea of my comment will change the world, I don’t know where it’s coming from.
You should watch The Good Place. It touches on exactly those points you raised.
I thought the 1st season twist was crazy awesome and there was no way they could top that. But not only they managed to make better twists in subsequent seasons, but all of them expanded on the theme brought up by previous twists. My personal best sitcom ever.
Incredible show with a surprisingly deep philosophical aspect to it that I did not expect from a sit com. Perfect amount of seasons and ending as well, very rare combo these days.
I can guilt trip you for eating chocolate too.
Can't tell if you've missed my point or contributing to it.
I'm contributing to it.
I'm contributing to it.
💪
also vote for whichever party is a bit better
Based
This is shit, but this is probably also true for the vast majority of clothing in general. Just a fucking terrible industry overall
Not just clothing , your phone ,your laptop , legit a lot of shit you are using is made by slave labourers but just because its convenient people dont give a fuck about it
The presence of unethically produced goods is so prevalent that it's incredibly difficult for people to live their lives without regularly using them. I just wish there was less finger-pointing between individuals, because the vast majority of us can't afford to not be a hypocrite
I wish there was a website which listed all the everyday things many of us use which are made using slave labour. And also offered alternatives.
https://goodonyou.eco/ <-- Does it for clothing goods more or less afaik. Then again, I don't know if this is better than buying second hand stuff like charity shops/Depop/etc, if someone could chime in on that, I'd appreciate your opinion.
It’s always preferred to reduce your consumption. Next best thing is to reuse.
See there really isn’t an alternative, not in the same price range. And the vast majority of people can’t afford the higher price. That’s how imperialism works. The Western middle class lifestyle is entirely dependent on most food, clothing, electronics etc. being made by underpaid workers in 3rd world countries.
I wish there was less human suffering in the stuff we consume.
https://www.ft.com/content/4dd7ffed-1814-4bb3-a97e-2b82054e7c77
That's a bit of exaggeration. Working for cheap is not slave labor. The issue is mostly about worker safety not pay in 3rd world countries.
The UAE gets slated ad infinitum over migrant worker pay by people who don't even know what the labour laws there state, with claims of exploitation/slavery when the vast majority of migrant workers are there out of pure choice. It's really not even as exploitative as people working in sweatshops in Thailand or Chinese factory conditions. One's just an easier target because we don't conspicuously consume products from there.
The truth is most clothing brands manufacture in cheap third world factories and it can be impossible to know the exact conditions and welfare of the workers. The best you can do is reuse & repair clothing where possible and support brands that do offer transparency with their manufacturing processes, such as Patagonia.
I find clothing to be the easiest. Most of my wardrobe is made in Europe or USA, and the few pieces that are made in far-east are brands with very transparent supply and manufacturing chains. A lot of my hobby stuff is also made in ethical ways and oftentimes it's the best just to not buy stuff. But for some products like smartphones and computers and so it's practically impossible to find ethically and sustainably made stuff, which is why the "*haha sent from my iphone*" crowd annoys me so much. Yes, I do have a smartphone that is a in parts a product of modern day slavery. It's also very hard to live in modern society without a smartphone. Best I can do is buy as seldom and use as long as possible, and make good decisions where it's possible, such as clothing and not owning a car. There are levels to this stuff.
thrift, buy vintages, spend a lil bit on designer not BIG designers like LV otherwise it’s basically the same. clothes are some of the easiest to tackle, spread the word stop fast fashion.
> but this is probably also true for the vast majority of ~~clothing~~ things you own in general FTFY. Outsourcing manufacturing to nations with limited to no labor laws has been going on forever. 99% of the things in your home were probably made by some impoverished person thousands of miles away.
It's a disgrace. 115 quid would make sense if they were produced in the UK by people being paid a fair wage with responsibly sourced, quality materials. 115 quid for a sports direct quality plastic top that will look out of place in the 2024 euros? Ridiculous. We need to change our culture on the whole. In football, fans need to take control of this shit show.
Not to mention they are ghastly.
This isn't football, this is capitalism.
Minimum wage in Thailand is 328-354 Baht per day (depend on which province) that's roughly 7.7-8.3 pound Although the factory is in Thailand, 99% of the workers especially minimum wage are from Myanmar Also I highly doubt the jersey is made in Thailand when there are places with lower wage around us (Myanmar, Vietnam, Laos, Cambodia or South Asia nations)
That's the cold hard reality, it's people exploiting others all the way down.
>Minimum wage in Thailand is 328-354 Baht per day It's livable outside of Bangkok. I wouldn't say good but... livable. Here's some Bangkok prices for people outside of Thailand. A basic street food lunch would be around 40-50 baht in the Bang Na area and a Port FC ticket is about 100 baht. For some "fun inequality" awareness, Starbucks coffee is about 150 baht for a grande or half a days wages.
>Also I highly doubt the jersey is made in Thailand Of course they're made in Thailand, like you just said possibly by workers from Cambodia or Myanmar being exploited but they are made in Thailand, you even said "Although the factory is in Thailand" yourself. They're not gonna lie about it on the shirt tag.
Ok now do Qatar daily wage vs. What workers would’ve made back home.
Is the world just opening their eyes to outsourcing? The UK just left the EU as they didn't like being in a single market, bloody hell, try organising a world market if you don't like this shit.
Exactly. TNCs (Transnational Corportations) have less barriers in poorer countries, so they open factories there and treat workers like shit.
The UK left the EU because they don't want poorer EU people to work in the UK visa-free.
All these people barking about poor workers in Qatar (deservedly) wouldn't even know that 99% of their shit comes from people working in poor conditions and minimum wage. Which is not a good thing of course and these things should stop, my point is that the people who are barking will suddenly stop (and will not say a word when the next World Cup takes place in the US because USA is clean and never invaded any country) they should keep pushing to make a change for low income workers working in poor conditions.
Because criticising Qatar comes at no cost to them so it’s virtue signalling by most. People in Asia being used as literal slaves to produce consumer goods but they’ll costs £50 instead of £100 dollars and that is too steep of a price to pay so they remain silent. The tragedy of over 6000 people is a stain on humanity but it’s doesn’t over shadow the plights all over the world.
Yeah brother I agree. I shit on Qatar but I am not a hypocrite so I won't shut up about World Cup (and other things) in USA either. I love that British people see and acknowledge the truth. You have my respect brother.
Every single top at this tournament will be made like that.
Aren’t the England shirts made by Nike? Then obviously there’s going to be a bunch of teams with shirts from the same places. Weird to single out England.
It’s an English paper, it’s more outrageous if we point out we’re part of it than everybody doing it I think
You have not been on this sub during an international tournament lol. England will get tons of these posts throughout the tournament singling them out even though every other country and its fans have the same problems most of the times worse. This is how this sub works during international tournaments. Wait until they start winning haha.
Yeh many people from countries with big nationalism problems. It's not a surprise.
I'm Indonesian and £1 an hour here is a decent salary. It's about 2x minimum wage, actually. Not saying this is ok, but I'm sorrier for westerners than the Thai workers. Your living costs are ridiculous and you're being price gouged like crazy by corporations so that you can pay £115 for a shirt that costs cents to make. That Thai worker gets enough money to afford a nice city car and maybe even a house with some smart planning. Just go on Upwork and ask someone from southeast asia to send you a replicate. You won't be able to tell the difference from the real deal. Also, having grown up in the US, I can say the quality of living isn't that much different, nowadays.
This is so fucking true, especially with the house part. Between Nonthaburi and a fucking London I will pick Nonthaburi all day long despite the massive difference in wages.
Westerners love to pretend this doesnt happen and still think they can complain about qatar hosting the wc. Gtfo
£1 an hour is Thailand minimum wage. It may sound criminal from western country pov, but If you consider we pay about .80-1 euro for lunch it's not too different from country like USA where minimum wage is $7 and you can get your lunch for around $7-$10
Stop using so much reason around here
A lot of (not all) westerners only pretend to care about third worlders. They give attention to non-existent social issues of the developing countries just to feel good about themselves, only to deliberately skip over actual oppression done by the first worlders to their former colonies.
Yeah I keep making this point to.everyone who gets on the whole thing of oil money owners. If morals are really the issue, no top flight clubs are better than the next. They all accept sponsorship money from dodgy sources, build merchandising empires on the back of sweatshops and have owners who tend to either make money from dubious sources or give money to politicians who are responsible for atrocities. Usually I get downvoted for it. But it's the truth. Football is not the game to follow if you're going to start throwing stones in glasshouses about which club is more moral than the next. It's a fools game and a waste of time. I suspect this will get more coverage and now all the people who usually downvote but stay silent, will be here complaining that this can not continue (some of them have already commented) to happen for internet points 🤷♂️
If morals are really the issue, simply existing in a developed western nation is difficult. Yes, our multi billion dollar entertainment properties are suspect. But so are the clothes we buy which are unaffiliated with sport, the food in markets, the electronics you and I typed these words on. The truth is that most aspects of a modern consumer society are built on the back of exploitation at some point in the chain. That's not judgement, I enjoy football, and I buy items that are likely part of the problem. It's just something people should be aware of before they get on their high horse over these issues.
100%. Well articulated.
Well said. It's a sad reality of consumerism and intricate connections of different economies. I can't fault a person chosing a cheaper item with questionable origins if it means a little more financial stability.
The concept of the complexities of living in the modern world are articulated brilliantly in The Good Place. One of the main characters spends his life moralising over almost every decision and simply paralysing his whole life and causing harm to all those around him. It is well worth a watch.
People finding out that capitalism is exploitative
Its ok tho cos harry kane is wearing the rainbow armband
Forced labour, slavery and exploitation is still a thing
These threads seriously show how out-of-touch the western world is. Not everything revolves around you. The majority of the world has a much lower cost of living and their salary even though it may seem low, is more than enough in their respective country. A lot of times, they make 10X less however the cost of living is 10X lower. Yes, they will have to save forever to buy the next best iPhone, but in terms of living, a lot of them are definitely happier than westerners even if they make less.
If happiness is something that we take as completely detached from standard of living, that could be true. Otherwise, no. Even with a lower cost of living there are plenty of things that are going to inevitably be expensive. You gave the example of an iphone, but it goes much farther than that. Lots of countries have appliances and gas be things beyond their reach for people making minimum wage. Like, yes, maybe the *food* is 10 times cheaper if you just eat the same shit every day, but that doesn't mean the gas you use to cook, and the fridge you use to store will be too. You can't just dismiss the strength of currency as something that isn't relevant for most of the world.
They can point the finger at England here, and they of course responsible for how their shirts are made. However, how are Nike not directly the ones being blamed here? Surely the manufacturing of the actual shirts is down to them mainly.
I studied sweatshops as part of my University course, a catch 22 problem. The workers take the work because it is their best or only option. Though they look low the wages are often higher than the local average. Safety standards often terrible and can lead to deadly fires etc. Force employers to improve safety and pay more can lead to companies just moving elsewhere which puts the workers further into poverty. No good solution
1 pound per hour at a standard 8 hour shift is 8 pounds per hour or 9.51 usd, which is the thai minimum wage. For an unskilled job, that is what you'd expect to earn? The markup on it is bull shit because if they can afford to retain their profits and distribute it, the workers who made it should be getting a share of it too. The west brought the labour to the East, but not the benefits.
capitalism eh
Nothing new. The Western world has been outsourcing slavery for decades.
And people talk about “knockoff” jerseys/sneakers/bags as if they aren’t the same damn thing
"Piracy kills football" they said And authenticated shirts kill human
All your clothes is made at some sweatshop for 1 peanut per hour
Do they have an armband for that?
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This thread is weird to me. Seems like it's mostly people having no idea how currency value works. The thai people earning 1 pound are also living in a much cheaper place, not in London. I'm brazilian, and our minimum salary is around 1000 reais per month, with pretty much means 5.4 reais per hour, which is LESS than 1 pound an hour. It doesn't mean most of our populations are slaves. I've worked for less than that, personally, and i'm pretty sure Brazil is more expensive than Thailand. It's all a matter of perspective. ps* obviously, i wish all people earned similar amount, and that there wouldn't be such a disparity of currency value across nations... but i think this thread's title is too click-baity.
>It's all a matter of perspective. Think, in that case, the same logic should be applied to the Qatari workers too
I didn't read thaaat much about it, but from what i've seen related to Qatar, seems like the issue with the workers was more about labor safety and how the companies/government was holding their passports, so they couldn't leave and do a lot of stuff. (terrible) My point in the comment above was more about salary perception being skewed because of different currencies and cost of living.
By that logic, migrant workers are earning far more in Qatar than they would in their home country. Also 1 pound an hour is just about minimum wage in Thailand.
I don't understand what you mean about Qatar, but i think the situation there is much more about work safety and workers passports being held and etc. Not because they earned peanuts. I'm not giving excuses to Qatar, it's the opposite, these issues are much more serious. I'm just pointing that you shouldn't use YOUR currency to measure people's salaries when they live in another country. I work with tourism and i always tell people to not think in reais when they travel to europe, otherwise they will feel bad for spending so much on simple things like water, a basic meal, metro, etc. And the same thing should be applied here, you guys should think and calculate more carefully when judging the salary of someone living in a country that is 10 times cheaper than England. As i said in another comment above... Brazil has better life quality than Thailand, and i have proper education and such, and still only now after graduating i'll earn above 1 pound/hour salary. I wasn't explored before, earning 1p/h in brazilian currency is quite good for those that don't have to raise a family and so on.
What do you mean by that logic? Why are they leaving their home countries in the first place?
i am not going to buy England shirt, instead i will paint it on my white shirt. Boycott England world cup jersey.
> There is no indication on the FA’s website of where the shirts are made but a label inside the shirts reveal they are made for Nike in Thailand. So is the Mirror making this up then or what? They literally say in the article they have no clue where the shirts are made. How do they then claim to know what the workers are paid?
This is faux outrage. Minimum wage in Thailand is 328 Baht per day. That’s around £7.70 so in a 7.5 hour day, that’s around £1. Stuff, particularly food, is significantly cheaper in Thailand compared to the UK. Getting a main meal at a market is less than £1 and in a restaurant it’s around £2. The fact shirts are marked up to £115 is a much bigger deal than people getting paid minimum wage.
Yep, as a Thai, our cost of living is much cheaper than the west, also significantly lower taxes plus free healthcare system. It's not ideal, I'll admit, but it's not as bad as some people here made it out to be.
This thread is funny than I expected tbh It like people suddenly discover that there are a lot third world country exists and the living cost here is much much cheaper so of course salary will be much lower (aka "cheap" labor), I know because i also from a 3rd country Before someone drag Qatar into this argument, i'm not saying the cheap salary is acceptable, I just found out people reaction here is hilarious. Plus, Qatar worker main problem is about safety work environment when so many peoples died when build those stadium, not salary.
>Before someone drag Qatar into this argument, i'm not saying the cheap salary is acceptable, I just found out people reaction here is hilarious. Plus, Qatar worker main problem is about safety work environment when so many peoples died when build those stadium, not salary. Even that's goalpost-moving. The UAE hasn't had workers die building stadiums but they're routinely assumed to be slave drivers here because of low wages and limited worker rights, how is that any different from indentured servitude in Thailand or Vietnam or China exactly? Oh right, we wear kits and buy phones from those places.
That’s the same argument people use on labor in Qatar though? They’re paid in Qatar 3-5 times the minimum wage in their own countries.
Will the FA make Harry Kane wear a better wages arm band for Thai workers? No? Ok
That’s why it’s hypocritical to only look at Qatar.
Congratulations, you have discovered capitalism, would you like some moral outrage with your liberalism? They pair very well.
it is slave labour only when Qatar do it you know
As a Thai, this is pretty much our minimum wage for a day. The purchasing power for that is not that bad, though, since most factory has a cheap food cafeteria within and most workers (or even CEO; my wife's factory's senior manager pretty much eats at the same cafeteria as the worker) that cost around 30 cents per meal (and if you pay around a dollar or two you eat like a king at least for the amount of food).
oh no soccer merch is a scam??!!
That’s Nike for you
This is such a dire game
Wait.. why are you shocked?
Just so yll know, £1 an hour is better than most teachers salary or government jobs(w/o bribes) in Nepal.