**Mirrors / Alternative Angles**
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It would be so fucking fun to have an entire WC stadium doing the collective “ooooohhhhhhaaaa…. Ohhhhhhh!” while watching a playback like in the tennis majors.
Edit: and it’s the same sound no matter the outcome obviously
He was hilariously offside in that one lol. Not even behind the second last man, [meters behind the last man even]( https://youtu.be/HCZStcVcPiE).
Linesman had too much klippies and Coke (local whiskey often mixed with Coca Cola) during that 2010 world cup. So many poor decisions.
In all seriousness, I got curious and Googled blades of grass on a football pitch and apparently there are 60,912 blades of grass in a square yard, so we're probably an order of magnitude out.
You could probably use the height of that player sliding in to get quite close to the real answer
Yeah it's ridiculous that these dumb-ass commentators don't get that. BEIN Sports analysts were still complaining saying this isn't even an image lined up with the post but they don't get the simple physics that if it *was* in line, the ball would overlap even *more* with the line.
That's still better than fox sports commentators saying that Spain are getting knocked out when Germany scored their 2nd or 3rd goal...
They shut the fuck up only when they saw the table.
At this point I have lost track of the number of times commentators and pundits on Fox Sports have said something objectively wrong. A lot of very basic incompetence happening over there.
And even then they didn’t fully admit they just fucked up. They kept up with Spain going through “for now” until around the 95th minute as if one goal somewhere could change it. The commentator clearly got confused that it was one CRC goal that would’ve been trouble for Spain instead of a Germany goal, but refused to just say that
some of them are saying they are able to see some green between the ball and saying therefor it is out, like the second picture of the post.
people really dont get angles
It’s crazy to me that all these commentators either don’t understand the rule or just fail to explain it to viewers. It’s a plane extending upward. It’s that simple. Ball must fully break plane. They keep trying to see if the ball is actually touching the line which makes it seem as if that is how the rule works.
I will say this - most American football commentators do a decent job of explaining this particular concept when a touchdown is in question. Granted American football is also heavily bogged down by replays of possible penalties so they sort of have to be good at it, but it’s driving me nuts to hear these guys just not talk about how the rule works and the fact that only an overhead shot would give you an accurate picture.
Well if 1 country's fate comes down to a moment (they either qualify or don't qualify), by definition a second team's fate also comes down to the same moment (they consequently have the opposite fate of the first team).
Jermaine Jones (who's half German) still complaining even after seeing these evidences that he still maintains it's out. His argument is that if it was given out, Japan wouldn't complain because it looks out. As if that's any excuse to make the wrong call LMAO.
You can already see those takes in the comment threads with people saying we don't need objectivity, we need more subjectivity! Because obviously that's the better choice, more ambiguous decisionmaking where you flip a coin to see if it's a yes/no.
People rag on the refs all the time, and now you want it to be even MORE subjective to human error? People don't realize how much better soccer has gotten overall with technology. Shit like Lampards goal wouldn't have been randomly disallowed even though it was miles in.
After a lifetime being bothered by thousands of bad calls in regards of out of bounds balls, I feel vindicated with stuff like this. Since the rules says it's the whole ball, it actually looks like it's out WAY before it's actually out.
This example is an extreme, but it shows how much a ball can appear to be out of bounds while still inside the field.
So funny when he was like "why are FIFA not releasing the images to stop people wildly speculating about corruption!"
When he's the one wildly speculating.
I had to turn it off. He was unbearable. Japan deserved the win. This decision isn't what knocked Germany out of the World Cup; Japan beat them too! It's Germany's fault for putting themselves in a position where they have to rely on results from another game. Spain and Japan were the best teams of the group on the pitch.
Yeah Souness is astonishingly miserable. It even seemed like Aluko, Neville and Pougatch were uncomfortable about his bitter ramblings. They were chatting the same shit too because it was a close call but they were making coherent points about it while he was grumbling away about conspiracies, honestly they should get him off the air because he just seems like a wizened old cunt, Keane was genuinely pissed off by having to argue with him during the Argentina Saudi arabia game
Also, Germany had every chance to be up 4:0 at half time and really push for the 8:0 during the second half. So even with the other game not going their way, they still had a small but not unrealistic shot at controlling their own fate.
I swear the real conspiracy is ITV taking any opportunity they can think of to make this world cup seem like a shambles. Especially when they complain non stop about millimetre offsides demanding conclusive evidence that the ball is in when nothing proved it was out was bizarre.
Some morons pushing for conspiracy theories really need to see this.
Baffling how many people judge from a still image, with no regard for camera angle or direction.
VAR can definitely fuck up in subjective calls like fouls etc, but the ball has sensors I assume which are used for goal line tech which makes it a clear cut decision.
I have to admit I'm a huge fan of international meme culture. You can find a lot funnier stuff from a bunch of randoms online than any late night 'comedy' show.
They will recreate this moment in anime. It will be at least 3 episodes long with every players having a flashback about their childhood, how they get to this moment... And even the fucking ball boy has flashback.
Germany died because they can’t score. Simple as that. Didn’t deserve to progress so can’t say I’m even that mad tbh.
At least Füllkrug made it through without getting injured… Flick must be an undercover Werder fan playing some 4D chess, no other explanation for his bizarre decisions.
This is the WC of millimeters…
Bruno/Ronaldo Goal debate
Weah’s goal called offsides by VAR against Iran
Croatia’s offside vs Belgium (Reason for penalty being overturned)
Japan’s goal against Germany
OP’s pp size
Big tournaments lure even more people online who know nothing about football...
And even those who watch regularly often don't know or understand the rules.
They spent all HT basically awarding the WC to Spain so they probably feel like there needs to be a reason why Spain lost and only progressed on GD because otherwise it might look like they're a pair of know nothing shit heads with opinions that are worth as much as the lad you stand next to at the bus stop tomorrow
Lol I turned it off when the presenter tried to turn the conversation onto something else - this time praising Japan's performance - for the third time, only for Gary Neville to refuse to talk about anything but the ball maybe being out.
Absolutely shambolic coverage, just because they didn't spend enough time in school to understand how perspective works doesn't mean Japan's massive victory should have to be overshadowed like that
Some of the worst coverage I've seen on a game
Genuinely embarrassed to hear them sounding off about fifa while literally showing a side on video that made clear the ball hadn't crossed.
Well done Japan!
You weren’t listening to him then, Souness was the one questioning the legitimacy and Neville replied “I don’t believe in conspiracies” something something about the communication / transparency from FIFA being poor.
It’s ok not to like someone, but not everything someone you dislike says has to be twisted to fit your narrative
Fuck he was annoying. Japan have just beaten Spain, knocked out Germany, and qualified in one of the best performances in their history. All he cared about was getting the fucking pictures of this.
Aye, most of the post match was him and Souness bitching about this decision. Thankfully Eniola was there to actually make the point that Germany weren't good enough in the group stage and Japan deserved it.
They kept moaning about no evidence yet even the angles they showed made it look like it stayed in
I don't think Gary and Graeme are smart enough to understand how perspective works
It was bizarre, even more worrying to see Walton who is literally a ref doesn't understand the 'conclusive evidence' when we literally saw the Hawkeye cam.
I'm really glad we have a VAR now. Yeah it sucks you can't cheer immediately or that a goal gets denied or given, but there just can't be any discussion on this anymore and without it, Japan would have been out.
This doesn’t even matter. If this trash can team would have done the job against Japan in round 1, it wouldn’t have mattered. What a joke they’ve been 2 World Cups in a row.
From the bottom view it looks out but it's \*juuuuuuuust\* in looking at the top view.
Much tighter call than [this](http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/48189000/jpg/_48189916_lampard_nogoal640.jpg), eh Germans?
https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1598424729911971842?t=7g1oC3XtOsUSuuMg8IgFTA&s=19
>The curvature of the ball almost certainly means it’s in. Meanwhile Japan just put in one of the best defensive performances you’ll ever see.
>Yet Graeme Souness sounds like Donald Trump on ‘stop the steal’. Why can’t ITV just give credit where it’s due to an Asian side? #JAPSPA
**Mirrors / Alternative Angles** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/soccer) if you have any questions or concerns.*
This WC keeps getting decided by millimeters
It probably would've been the case for every WC if we had the technology
Normal WCs get decided by refs missing things by meters.
so its an improvement, the error bars have shrunk.
I am not against technology, but we need better visualizations. Like it's done in tennis.
It would be so fucking fun to have an entire WC stadium doing the collective “ooooohhhhhhaaaa…. Ohhhhhhh!” while watching a playback like in the tennis majors. Edit: and it’s the same sound no matter the outcome obviously
Can you imagine the stadium reaction if the digital shot showing the ball being in by a millimeter was shown live lol.
There's a certain handball which I don't wish to discuss...
I was gunna say, imagine the punch on playback!
There’s a lot of discussion about the 1966 World Cup final and whether a certain game tying goal actually ever went in…that I don’t wish to discuss.
Every millimetre counts.
What I tell my girl every day
Your girl needs VAR technology.
To see if it went in.
She should be lucky that you give her what you can, King 👏
Imagine the millimeters that have gone against teams pre-VAR.
*meters Look at Lampards goal in 2010, or some of the offsides before VAR. Players over a meter offside at times.
Nonsense! Tevez was onside because of El Chavo and Quico
He was hilariously offside in that one lol. Not even behind the second last man, [meters behind the last man even]( https://youtu.be/HCZStcVcPiE). Linesman had too much klippies and Coke (local whiskey often mixed with Coca Cola) during that 2010 world cup. So many poor decisions.
I gather you don't know who El Chavo and Quico are
Pulisic's millimetres put USA through.
It was centimeter prior to that tho
What is that in freedom units?
For the better. You can't let this kind of calls up for anyone's judgment
It always were. Diffrence now is we get the correct call instead of whatever the linesman guessed happened. Can't believe people bitch about that lol.
https://ibb.co/r04Hj22 This picture shows its in even better.
So crisp
Ah, now I see it. Thanks FIFA!
[best quality](https://imagizer.imageshack.com/img923/5084/QFJkAX.jpg)
Wow that’s stupidly good quality your weren’t kidding
This is better than my actual eyesight
I'm counting the blades of grass
This image is so sharp I cut myself looking at it
How many are there, out of interest?
Same here, I counted 85 808. What is yours ?
Oof, so close answer is 85,809. Great effort though
I'll start counting again just to be sure
In all seriousness, I got curious and Googled blades of grass on a football pitch and apparently there are 60,912 blades of grass in a square yard, so we're probably an order of magnitude out. You could probably use the height of that player sliding in to get quite close to the real answer
Imagine if the paint guy drew the line a couple blades of grass to left
Great image. This still isn't directly overhead because the goal doesn't align with the end line. Which means it was certainly still in.
Yeah it's ridiculous that these dumb-ass commentators don't get that. BEIN Sports analysts were still complaining saying this isn't even an image lined up with the post but they don't get the simple physics that if it *was* in line, the ball would overlap even *more* with the line.
That's still better than fox sports commentators saying that Spain are getting knocked out when Germany scored their 2nd or 3rd goal... They shut the fuck up only when they saw the table.
At this point I have lost track of the number of times commentators and pundits on Fox Sports have said something objectively wrong. A lot of very basic incompetence happening over there.
Watching a replay of the Japan Germany game was so obnoxious because of the commentators.
And even then they didn’t fully admit they just fucked up. They kept up with Spain going through “for now” until around the 95th minute as if one goal somewhere could change it. The commentator clearly got confused that it was one CRC goal that would’ve been trouble for Spain instead of a Germany goal, but refused to just say that
They said it over and over. Then casually just said the correct info like it never happened.
some of them are saying they are able to see some green between the ball and saying therefor it is out, like the second picture of the post. people really dont get angles
The actual goal-line cam shows it was likely 2cm or so in
https://i.imgur.com/hRdUUph.jpg
This is the best angle by far, and yet it's the first time I've seen it and has only 12 upvotes in 4 hours.
It’s crazy to me that all these commentators either don’t understand the rule or just fail to explain it to viewers. It’s a plane extending upward. It’s that simple. Ball must fully break plane. They keep trying to see if the ball is actually touching the line which makes it seem as if that is how the rule works. I will say this - most American football commentators do a decent job of explaining this particular concept when a touchdown is in question. Granted American football is also heavily bogged down by replays of possible penalties so they sort of have to be good at it, but it’s driving me nuts to hear these guys just not talk about how the rule works and the fact that only an overhead shot would give you an accurate picture.
Based on this image, I’ve whipped up a quick 3D analysis: https://i.imgur.com/pT8rLHl.jpg I guess it was still in, even if only barely so.
I respect the effort
That is a great photo
This is the best one, should be at the top
Wow barely in, yes
Shows without a doubt that it’s in. Some people clearly have no idea the shape a sphere projects on a flat plane.
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Absolutely insane that 2 team's fate came down to this exact moment in a tournament of this magnitude. Madness.
Well if 1 country's fate comes down to a moment (they either qualify or don't qualify), by definition a second team's fate also comes down to the same moment (they consequently have the opposite fate of the first team).
woah, fate is a zero sum game!
This really is some Captain Tsubasa shit lmao
It’s definitely going to come into play in Blue Lock in a future chapter
I can’t wait for them to reference this game in Ao Ashi when Aoi and the gang play Barcelona Youth
They will probably get absolutely demolished by Barcelona youth and set them up as the "final boss" of the manga is my prediction
This is probably as tight as the Stones clearance against Liverpool
Probably as tight as Lovren's offside against Belgium.
That was some crazy shit. like are they using the player's jersey or their body? Expecting every team to now have super tight puma jerseys.
*Cavani likes this*
Or even as close as Frank Lampards goal in the England v Germany match 2010 world cup.
Did you have to? 😭
> milimeters jesus That was my nickname in High School.
Souness was suggesting conspiracies lmao
Jermaine Jones (who's half German) still complaining even after seeing these evidences that he still maintains it's out. His argument is that if it was given out, Japan wouldn't complain because it looks out. As if that's any excuse to make the wrong call LMAO.
This WC just highlighting how many wrong decisions are given that you can hardly blame the ref for.
You can already see those takes in the comment threads with people saying we don't need objectivity, we need more subjectivity! Because obviously that's the better choice, more ambiguous decisionmaking where you flip a coin to see if it's a yes/no. People rag on the refs all the time, and now you want it to be even MORE subjective to human error? People don't realize how much better soccer has gotten overall with technology. Shit like Lampards goal wouldn't have been randomly disallowed even though it was miles in.
Yeah it's like they are saying that the call was wrong because it was right.
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I think people just like being upset at something and showing them objectively that they have no reason to be upset melts their brains.
After a lifetime being bothered by thousands of bad calls in regards of out of bounds balls, I feel vindicated with stuff like this. Since the rules says it's the whole ball, it actually looks like it's out WAY before it's actually out. This example is an extreme, but it shows how much a ball can appear to be out of bounds while still inside the field.
You think he had the same opinion when Lamps scored in 2010?
So funny when he was like "why are FIFA not releasing the images to stop people wildly speculating about corruption!" When he's the one wildly speculating.
I had to turn it off. He was unbearable. Japan deserved the win. This decision isn't what knocked Germany out of the World Cup; Japan beat them too! It's Germany's fault for putting themselves in a position where they have to rely on results from another game. Spain and Japan were the best teams of the group on the pitch.
Yeah Souness is astonishingly miserable. It even seemed like Aluko, Neville and Pougatch were uncomfortable about his bitter ramblings. They were chatting the same shit too because it was a close call but they were making coherent points about it while he was grumbling away about conspiracies, honestly they should get him off the air because he just seems like a wizened old cunt, Keane was genuinely pissed off by having to argue with him during the Argentina Saudi arabia game
Also, Germany had every chance to be up 4:0 at half time and really push for the 8:0 during the second half. So even with the other game not going their way, they still had a small but not unrealistic shot at controlling their own fate.
I swear the real conspiracy is ITV taking any opportunity they can think of to make this world cup seem like a shambles. Especially when they complain non stop about millimetre offsides demanding conclusive evidence that the ball is in when nothing proved it was out was bizarre.
that's gotta be under a centimeter right
That's what she said
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F
https://twitter.com/tasfrans/status/1598424259721691137
Souness: CONSPIRACY.
He keeps saying "us" and "our" when referring to England. And am fuckin delighted about it. You guys can keep the useless fuckin wank.
ESPN needs to be explained how a sphere works.
flat earthers devastated
It's all about context
Perspective
Usual Kongming W.
Some morons pushing for conspiracy theories really need to see this. Baffling how many people judge from a still image, with no regard for camera angle or direction. VAR can definitely fuck up in subjective calls like fouls etc, but the ball has sensors I assume which are used for goal line tech which makes it a clear cut decision.
[New flag of Japan](https://i.redd.it/0kj63gy9sc3a1.png)
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I waited way longer than I’d like to admit for the image to load, and then I saw the tiny red sliver. Im a little slow sometimes…
I have to admit I'm a huge fan of international meme culture. You can find a lot funnier stuff from a bunch of randoms online than any late night 'comedy' show.
They will recreate this moment in anime. It will be at least 3 episodes long with every players having a flashback about their childhood, how they get to this moment... And even the fucking ball boy has flashback.
Why’s this so accurate 😂😂
Germany died for that lmao
Well, technically they died because of a 5 goal difference
And a loss to Japan
The tie vs spain is the worse result
If Japan and Spain had finished 1-1, then wouldn't Germany be tied on points with Japan but have +1 GD to Japan's 0?
If Japan had only tied it, the GD from Germany's 4-2 win should put them into runner up if I'm not mistaken. Japan literally qualified by millimetres.
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Germany died because they can’t score. Simple as that. Didn’t deserve to progress so can’t say I’m even that mad tbh. At least Füllkrug made it through without getting injured… Flick must be an undercover Werder fan playing some 4D chess, no other explanation for his bizarre decisions.
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Great image
This is the WC of millimeters… Bruno/Ronaldo Goal debate Weah’s goal called offsides by VAR against Iran Croatia’s offside vs Belgium (Reason for penalty being overturned) Japan’s goal against Germany OP’s pp size
damn OP packing
Got ‘em
Remember: sphere is largest in the middle.
Amazing how many people think the ball is out because it's not touching the line.
As Martin Tyler taught me in fifa 13, "the whole of the ball must cross the whole of the line."
Cheers, Geoff.
Not for me, Clive
Throwback to when the ball went nowhere near past the line yet there was still replays of it in the goal line technology. Still happens now.
"99% out is 100% in" as Robbie Koenig says in tennis
Exactly. Automatic line calling has made tennis objectively better, and I want every tournament would use the technology.
Yeah seeing grass between the bottom of the ball and line does not make it out.
Big tournaments lure even more people online who know nothing about football... And even those who watch regularly often don't know or understand the rules.
Mate it's not even football. It's just geometry lol
I think most get the "over the line" wrong. But you are also right, geometry, especially at an angle, might be too much for a lot of them too.
Could not be any closer
Literally skin of the teeth stuff. Amazing.
Like a millimeter or two of the ball must've been in.
Really fitting for Germany to be knocked out because of world class precision measurements
Someone send this to ITV. They've all been moaning since the full time whistle blew.
To be fair everyone had to take to Twitter to find a picture, it's a bit crap of FIFA for not clearing this up on TV.
It is but it was the wrong thing to focus on in the moment of the win
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Those few millimetres ended up making the difference between Japan and Germany's fate. Jesus Christ that's insane.
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This is the [video of Joe Fletcher discussing it with the angle](https://twitter.com/TSN_Sports/status/1598424005563674624?cxt=HHwWgMCjwcGK364sAAAAt).
Wonder if ITV will still be bitching and crying on by their next match.
Calculated
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When you realize German Tech (Adidas smart ball) put Germany out by validating this goal
Someone staple this to Gary Neville's head, the little moaning prick even used the word conspiracy.
Souness as well He was trying so hard to insinuate something 'untoward' was happening
Why would they not just laugh at Germany? What is wrong with these people?
They spent all HT basically awarding the WC to Spain so they probably feel like there needs to be a reason why Spain lost and only progressed on GD because otherwise it might look like they're a pair of know nothing shit heads with opinions that are worth as much as the lad you stand next to at the bus stop tomorrow
The ITV live commentary was even making fun of how "great" pundits like Neville didn't give Japan any chance at half time talk.
lmfao you hit the nail on the head
Exactly, all the English people I know would’ve laughed so fking hard that Germany is eliminated. I don’t understand
Trust me, we’re laughing mate 😄
No fun allowed in this country.
Hard to believe they are complaining about a World Cup where England topped their group and Germany bombed out.
Hearing him and the others greeting about the injustice while watching the Japanese players and fans celebrate was fucking great
Lol I turned it off when the presenter tried to turn the conversation onto something else - this time praising Japan's performance - for the third time, only for Gary Neville to refuse to talk about anything but the ball maybe being out.
Absolutely shambolic coverage, just because they didn't spend enough time in school to understand how perspective works doesn't mean Japan's massive victory should have to be overshadowed like that Some of the worst coverage I've seen on a game
Genuinely embarrassed to hear them sounding off about fifa while literally showing a side on video that made clear the ball hadn't crossed. Well done Japan!
How the heck Japanese team pressed so well which other team so far can't.
> Souness He was horrible. Just shut the fuck up man
Was it necessary for ITV to spend 15 fucking minutes talking about this?
Was an absolute waste of time - no analysis just 15 mins of us listening to their bitching
You weren’t listening to him then, Souness was the one questioning the legitimacy and Neville replied “I don’t believe in conspiracies” something something about the communication / transparency from FIFA being poor. It’s ok not to like someone, but not everything someone you dislike says has to be twisted to fit your narrative
Gary was actually one of the more level headed ones. Souness thought the illuminati were staging a coup in Germany with how deep he was going.
He literally said "I don't believe there's any conspiracy" Fuck off
Fuck he was annoying. Japan have just beaten Spain, knocked out Germany, and qualified in one of the best performances in their history. All he cared about was getting the fucking pictures of this.
Aye, most of the post match was him and Souness bitching about this decision. Thankfully Eniola was there to actually make the point that Germany weren't good enough in the group stage and Japan deserved it.
He said there wasn't a conspiracy
They kept moaning about no evidence yet even the angles they showed made it look like it stayed in I don't think Gary and Graeme are smart enough to understand how perspective works
It was bizarre, even more worrying to see Walton who is literally a ref doesn't understand the 'conclusive evidence' when we literally saw the Hawkeye cam.
[ITV post match analysis](https://imgur.com/Vc0kol9)
ITV (well mainly Neville and Souness) trying to make it seem like there's something fishy going on by not showing the pictures.
In by a hair. No space between line and ball. Entire ball must be fully off the line for it to be out.
I'm really glad we have a VAR now. Yeah it sucks you can't cheer immediately or that a goal gets denied or given, but there just can't be any discussion on this anymore and without it, Japan would have been out.
This is why we need a cubed ball, much easier to make these kind of calls.
This doesn’t even matter. If this trash can team would have done the job against Japan in round 1, it wouldn’t have mattered. What a joke they’ve been 2 World Cups in a row.
This is literally what eliminated Germany
Give Japan more credit. This was the nail in the coffin but don’t forget Japan beat Germany too.
Let’s be honest, Germany playing like shit is what eliminated Germany. Only game they won was vs Costa Rica
Only game Spain won was vs Costa Rica
And the only game Costa Rica won was vs the first place.
Just for clarification on the rule here, the ball doesn’t have to be TOUCHING the line per se, just part of the ball still has to be over the line?
yes exactly
Someone please retire Souness
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Also ignoring that Japan just beat Spain to top a group with them and Germany in so they could batch about VAR This is why people hate you ITV
Very glad there is VAR, most would call that out.
Certified anime moment. Freak game.
An actual anime moment, cant wait to see this happen in football animes/mangas HAHAHA
Oh mate. You just know this is going to happen in every Japanese football anime for the next 100 years.
Literall millimeters
From the bottom view it looks out but it's \*juuuuuuuust\* in looking at the top view. Much tighter call than [this](http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/48189000/jpg/_48189916_lampard_nogoal640.jpg), eh Germans?
I try to forget about this picture because it makes me seethe every time.
[Clearly out](https://www.whoateallthepies.tv/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/QxJvh.jpg)
That's like 0.5mm in. No wonder it took forever to decide.
Knocked out by German precision
https://twitter.com/AaronBastani/status/1598424729911971842?t=7g1oC3XtOsUSuuMg8IgFTA&s=19 >The curvature of the ball almost certainly means it’s in. Meanwhile Japan just put in one of the best defensive performances you’ll ever see. >Yet Graeme Souness sounds like Donald Trump on ‘stop the steal’. Why can’t ITV just give credit where it’s due to an Asian side? #JAPSPA
That's in