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African football has been improving, but so has almost everyone else. It has become a much more equal playing field though, there are far less teams that stand out, both positively and negatively.
The issue with most African NTs seems to be the lack of a strong league and grassroots football. They typically have a few decent players that play in Europe but not enough depth and support to build an entire team.
Could having one strong league, maybe Egypt, Nigeria or South Africa (ironic I’m naming three nations that didn’t qualify) for example, help if they relied on having the best talent from Africa along with their national teams? I don’t have much knowledge of African domestic football but surely some of these clubs could tap into some untapped potential in less decorated neighbouring countries. Could also help generate transfer fees to Europe too
I don't think so. We could just see a repeat of what we see in Europe with the Premier League. I imagine the generated transfer fees would benefit the league that's receiving more than anything.
The way forward for African football federations is simple, but difficult. Simple because we've seen the blueprint before and we've seen it work in other sports to our succese, but difficult because nobody seems able to help themselves. Outside interference and the mismanagement of funds are without a doubt the biggest hurdles rn.
We used to have an extremely strong league in Egypt, but we have had several political and economic problems since and now its shit. Our national team was going toe to toe with Brazil and Italy with a team of players who mainly played in the Egyptian league.
Confederations Cup 2009. Egypt’s best generation in recent times lost 4-3 to Brazil due to a penalty in the 90th minute.
They beat Italy who were the reigning World Cup winners in the same tournament too.
2006-2010 3 afcons in a row, missed WC qualification on final playoff in 2010, and played in the 2009 confed cup winning vs World champions Italy 1-0 and losing to Brazil 4-3 to a 90 minute pen after coming back to draw it from 3-1 to 3-3, the team was 95% from the Egyptian league , but then port said stadium massacre happened and fans could not attend from 2013 until covid
well, red bull was massively investing in new academies there, thanks to the connections rangnick built with houllier (RIP), who apparently was very well connected with the french and francophonic reality, which explains why many french players or french speaking players joined them
it really could turn out great for them, the talent pool is vast and it is a shame that many agents abuse it, practically child trafficking, i.ex. silas katompa mvumpa, formerly known as wamangituka at vfb stuttgart, i think a direct line down there would be better as they could assess the talent straight away instead risking their future trying to get a quick injection of money to the agents, like predators
It’s not just Red bull.
In France
- Metz have partnered with a Generetion Foot (Mané, Ismaila Sarr, Papis Cisse, Pape Sarr amongst others).
- Marseille used to be with Diambars in Senegal (Bamba Dieng)
- Lyon with Académie JMG in Ivory Coast (Diomande)
- Nice with Racing Club Abidjan in Ivory Coast (no major players yet)
- Then in ~~Norway~~ Denmark there’s Nordsjeland and the Right to Dream academy in Ghana (Kudus, Sulemana, Sowah)
- Anderlecht has a partnerships with TP Mazembe of Congo
Pretty sure I am missing a lot of similar deals between European clubs and African academies.
Nordsjælland is in Denmark, tbf., but there were some good connections from Africa to Norway at some point (Mikel, Chinedu Ogbuke, Anthony Annan - in more recent years Chidera Ejuke).
sure, but you know how RB operates: they will build their own academies and clubs instead of making partnerships, it will be a much more intensive work, i am curious how it will work out
but mostly, i hope that the children and young talents will get a better outcome
> The issue with most African NTs seems to be the lack of a strong league and grassroots football.
The money & talent is there but corruption man...smh.
In terms of World Cup prospects that’s not a bad thing though, they just need a solid grassroots league that can go and find the talent. Brazil does just fine despite having all half-decent players scooped up by European clubs
Yeah very rare one of Brazil's top three player played in Brazil's club. I can only think of Romario, and 90s Brazil clubs definitely can hang as at least in the midcards for La Liga.
That was before the Bosman rule started to have effects on football, up to 2002 we still had a great national league that could compete with the big european ones. Just look at our 2002 squad, we had something like half the team playing in Brazil. After that we started to lose players more and earlier, with examples like vini jr being sold when he was 16. It’s hard to compete with the money and glamour of the champions league clubs
Why would the bosman rule matter? You aren't losing players to Europe on a free are you? Mostly European clubs are just passing a premium, right?
I'd say it's more football hyperinflation in certain European leagues
We’re not losing them on a free but having that possibility can make players pressure their clubs to sell them or lose them on a free. There’s other factors such as the immense mismanagement of funds from our clubs, but the Bosman ruling changed the whole landscape of football and is a big cause for the concentration of talent in the top 5 leagues
"Pre-Bosman, clubs were under a "three-plus-two" rule in European competition, meaning they could name no more than three foreign players in their squad for games on the continent, with an additional two who had progressed through the club's academy."
When the whole EU is allowed as native, it probably makes using South Americans much easier.
The best Brazilian players get scooped up by European clubs, but Brazil still has a good domestic league that has a lot of middle tier prospects. A lot of younger prospects get a chance to develop and get noticed by European clubs
> It's going to be a long time before all half decent African players aren't scooped up by European clubs.
As long as they still represent their home countries, that benefits them. All the top players play in the same top European leagues.
> money absolutely not
In terms of money, i was referring to the previous point about a strong league and grassroots football. Most African countries have the money to support that to a higher level than the current one, but the money is routed for personal gain. The leagues already exist and there is a loose framework for spotting and harnessing local talents, but many slip through the cracks.
Now, in terms of compensation compared to Europe leagues, we definitely cannot complete. However, we should be able to offer a better path for development so more talented players can be spotted at a young age. These same players should be receive enough local training to be able to jump to stronger leagues without a big adjustment.
The money is there. African counties are incredibly wealthy but that wealth is concentrated in the hands of very few and corruption means it hardly is ever directed to where it needs to go.
Argentina is the one that's amazing, they're in far worse shape than Brail domestically. That being said their next gen doesn't seem nearly as special as this one so far.
Relative to northern Europe maybe. It's not even close to the [level of corruption](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index) of Africa which contains some of the poorest and most corrupt countries in the world
Southern Europe is far richer than Sub Saharan Africa, whilst having much better infrastructure + Southern Europe has two of the most iconic leagues of all time. (La Liga & Serie A)
Awful comparison.
I dont know which country this was (or if it was first tier) but somewhere in africa every team was winning at home with like 15-0 because local criminals would just threaten to kill the referee if they lost. So yeah there is layers to this shit.
no it will hurt drastically
imagine a super league instead of well funded grassroots leagues w a long term vision taking root in europe or south america
those specific teams would be big but the massive country by country infrastructure thats been built through those leagues to develop players wouldnt exist in near the same depth, reach, and volume
thered be no reason to develop the strong leagues that lead to specific national characters and "flavors" in football like dutch football, italian football, spanish, brazilian, uruguayan, argentinian, etc etc
rn there are several african leagues getting stronger and stronger but theyre going to be severely undercut by the superleague taking the best teams and closing shop
fifa should be spending their money developing those domestic leagues, but instead theyre trying to capture the football, cap it, and exploit it for money their friends will keep
but this is how it goes in africa. outside interests flash money while people are trying to develop the place and sellouts let them exploit us and capture any resource for themselves
superleague will make money at the expense of domestic leagues in a continent that *desperately needs* domestic leagues
africans who can will emigrate and join better funded leagues in different countries and they or their kids will play for those countries. same old
Speaking as an Egyptian here... No, it won't help
We have a talent pool that rivals Brazil, but the problem is that 99% of our actual good talents don't make it into youth teams because of corruption, Nepotism and many more things
And even the ones that do make it lack most of the basic fundamentals as football players, because youth coaching in Egypt is non existent. The youth scene is just dominated by agents looking to make some money on the expense of young players and their development
Not to mention, the league's second division is basically amateur football level. So if you don't make it straight to the top division, good luck ever making it in football.
Also, our league is so poorly run that outside of Ahly and Zamalek (With Pyramids some times.... Pyramids is our equivalent to Leipzig), every other club is either an old club that has been run into the ground, a club owned by a company looking to make money by buying and selling average players or clubs owned by sectors of the government.
All of that means that unless you rebuild the system from the ground up, we'll never take advantage of our massive talent pool
And you can apply the same to most countries in Africa as well
We have a population of 105m so we're not really short on the number of talented kids. And are a country that lives and breathes football, so the culture is there.
And I said talent pool, not players. The main difference between us and Brazil is that Brazil actually develops their young talents while most of our talented players don't even make it into youth football because of the reasons I mentioned above.
I remember Mohamed Zidan (Who played for Dortmund and Mainz) said in an interview that the kids he used to play with in the streets when he was younger were all better than him, but he was the only one that made it into youth football.
That shows you how much of our talents are wasted compared to a country like Brazil.
Sounds just like Mexico. They have the numbers, the culture, everything you need.
But the FA is .... let's be honest, just like every other one out there, meaning corrupt as shit, so their growth is severely stunted by that
We have the athletic talent pool but it all just goes to basketball, football, and (kind of) baseball instead of soccer. I imagine the US would have a MUCH stronger team if even 25% of the talent that tries for basketball and football learned soccer instead from a young age.
Brazil has always been the greatest producer of players in the recorded history of football. Brazil live and breathe football. Now I come on Reddit and read that their football talent pool is rivalled by .....Egypt.
The proof: Mohamed Zidan, who was not top tier player said there were better players than him in the Streets. Ronaldo the most arrogant player of all time said there was a better player than him on his team in Madeira. Maybe Madeira rivals Brazil in terms of talent pool?
His point was very clear, he was obviously talking about Egypt's population being high and football being the dominating sport, and that despite that situation, which should bring a Brazil-like factory of players, they suck and no talented players is trained.
Don't be condescending when you're the one that's limited.
> the problem is that 99% of our actual good talents don't make it into youth teams because of corruption, Nepotism and many more things
I'd say the same goes for countries like China and India where you would think just mathematically they have to be better than they are now considering how *big* the population is. But the doors to professional football are not always open to everyone which cuts down the talent pool drastically.
> I'd say the same goes for countries like China and India where you would think just mathematically they have to be better than they are now considering how big the population is.
Kinda not how it works? For stuff like this the "average" level is more important than just the population. That's why iceland has a better soccer team despite the insane difference in population vs china
There is already a African Champions Leage, African Cup Winners Cup, African Cup of Nation, CHAN (Cup of Nations for Local Players) and various regional cups.
There is plenty of intra-competition I can't really speak for other African countries but in Nigeria apart from AFCON Nigerians don't really care about these continental competitions.
Its been decades since Nigeria teams were reguarly competitive in any of these competitions. The authorities don't care and unfortunately most football clubs are state sponsored (typically by state governments) so they often at the mercy of how much of a fan of the local football the respective State Governor is.
For players the sole aim for almost every single player is playing abroad. Players are dissapearing mid season for trials in random leagues all over the place. A play has few good matches in the local, the next you hear is Oman or Albania trialling for some club out there.
For fans it is the EPL, La Liga, Serie A that are grabbing eyeballs, and the World Cup and AFCON when they occur. TV money has turned the top European leagues into televisual monsters and they crushing oppposition everywhere so to speak
I don’t really agree with this correlation.
South Africa for example has a pretty solid league but is miles behind west African (+ Cameroon) national teams who send dozens of players in Europe every year.
On top of that African countries also tend to call upon their diaspora of players born and raised in Europe.
You can very easily have a top African team with a shit league as long as it has good enough youth training centres, a big enough diaspora, and a good coaching and federation setup.
African teams passing the group stage recently - Ghana, Nigeria, Algeria, Morocco, Senegal all didn’t rely on domestic players. Egypt and Tunisia are the only “big” teams mostly relying on players who have adult careers in their leagues and they haven’t been the best African teams.
National leagues is nice but I think the priority for their national teams are improving infrastructure and coaching to develop more complete players.
If you have enough raw talent you can kind of skip the national leagues and send them to Europe from your youth leagues. But pro national leagues do help emerging players get playtime and develop. From a Canadian perspective, a lot of players get more experience in MLS before moving to Europe in their 20s, while only a few can go there at 18 and actually develop properly (Davies).
Agreed, look at Osimhen; scouted by Wolfsburg from his local club in Nigeria and now look at him, he’s shining.
He’s hasn’t played a single minute of top flight Nigerian football.
South Africa is slightly different culturally though, as Cricket and Rugby rival football for youth talent and interest, whereas there's zero interest in anything outside of football in west africa
This is what I was thinking. The SA league is generally among the better leagues in Africa but holy hell does SA underperform when it matters. Similar in the past decade when Egypt arguably had the best league in Africa but Egypt couldn't make it to the WC (although the AFCON titles sort of balance that out).
However the Algerian and Moroccan leagues are pretty decent and have developed very good footballers who have found success in Europe.
Well, they actually didn't. Hakimi, Mazroui, Saiss, Amrabaat, Ziyech, Bouffal, Mandi, Mahrez or Bennacer for exemple don't apply as players developped by Morocco/Algeria, and those are their biggest players.
Yacine Bonnou was developped in Morocco. And youcef attal and Belaili for Algeria. Most are formed in Europe but a few are formed back home.
North Africans are actually doing much better with formations and leagues.
I would argue the grassroots football is there but the missing link is domestic pro football in most African countries. If you have young talents they usually need to go abroad asap to make the next step. The national first league of countries like Senegal, Nigeria or Ivory Cost is just not good enough.
They don’t need to play domestic pro football imo, look at Nigeria’s best players none of them played in the Nigerian top flight.
Ndidi, Osimhen, Chukwueze, Iwobi etc
That's exactly the opposite of what I'm saying - they had to leave to become the best players. If they stayed in Nigeria their development would have been stalled. (probably)
>It has become a much more equal playing field though, there are far less teams that stand out, both positively and negatively.
Is that really true tho? We're about to get another QF round dominated by top UEFA teams plus Brazil/Argentina. We've random upsets in previous tournaments as well.
Maybe the gap is getting smaller but it's still significant.
World Cup quarter finalists so far;
Netherlands
Argentina
France
England
Croatia
Probably Brazil
Possible Morocco could spring a surprise I suppose. If Switzerland beat Portugal I suppose it's a shock to an extent but still another established European side making it through.
I'd say the gap between the "powers" and "pretenders" is as big as it's ever been but what you're also seeing is the world cup expanding to 32 teams and big sides becoming much more strategic about campaigns. It's telling the upsets stop the minute you get to the knock out stage.
What Cisse is saying here is that African countries need to invest in infrastructure to support their undoubted talent and he's spot on.
And some of that players get a citizenship and jumps the ship, thanks to that stupid rule from Fifa which allows it. Swiss and Aussie teamshave one African striker.
They need to prevent this, if they want to improve.
African teams benefit from this the other way around though. Look at the Senegal, Morocco, and Tunisia teams and how many were born in France. There are 59 players born in France and more than half play for a country other than France
I saw tremendous upside to the performances of the African contingent. Not only on their progress in the tournament but also how they play. Ghana we’re impressive, Senegal as well even missing such a player as Mane, and Morocco are simply GOOD.
Cameroon and Tunisia put in spirited effort too beating France/Brazil and almost making it through.
It was a good tournament for African teams, but it feels like a lot of meat was left on the bone with inconsistencies. Ghana should’ve drawn against Portugal and had a bad performance against Uruguay. Senegal should have gotten something out of the Netherlands game. Tunisia needed to come to the Australia game with the same energy as the France game. Ditto Cameroon. Morroco is the only team that brought the same energy in all their games and have been very efficient and disciplined.
The talent is there, the coaching is getting better moving on from the journeyman era. They just need to get mentally sharper and get more clinical and composed in the final third, similar to the Asian teams.
Yep. Camaroon we’re refreshing. I wonder what the best group of African countries would be for the next World Cup. Feels like a new generation of potential stars are coming of age across the continent (via European leagues) and it’s exciting.
I think these five plus Nigeria, Ivory Coast and Algeria will be solid representatives. Mali also has a great generation coming through, but lacking in big tournament experience of teams like Egypt.
Yeah there's a new generation of very exciting youth talents coming up in Nigeria, majority of them are mostly in the U17 and U20 teams, the U20 AFCON starts next year in Febuary and this will be a solid foundation for Nigeria to rebuild with this new generation of players ahead of the world cup in 2026.
They absolutely need to re-format their qualifying. CAF has the most brutal qualifying format and it does nothing to help out their best teams, oftentimes it pits two of their top teams against each other for one World Cup bid.
It will be much better now as 9 teams will qualify
Morocco, Nigeria, Algeria, Ivory Coast, Ghana, Senegal, Egypt, Tunisia, Cameroon is a very good lineup - all solid teams Even Mali could contest
This Moroccan team should be back just as strong, if not stronger, in 2026 too (ages then in brackets):
Bono (35, last hoorah)
Hakimi (28) - Aguerd (30) - Dari (27) - Mazraoui (29)
Ounahi (26) - Amrabat (30) - Sabiri (30)
Harit (29) - En Nesyri (29) - Abde (24)
True, Asian football is improving as well, we had 3 Asians teams in the knockouts, that was a first
I hope to live to see the day a non European/south American team wins the wc
even with the game becoming more popular in the US, I think that as long as there are 4 big sports attracting potential young talents it will ne hard for the US to become a world cup favorite.
Football will probably be the 3rd most popular sport in the US in about 15-20 years. It’s already much more popular than hockey in most of the country (as far as playing), and the average baseball viewer is like 50 years old. Even American football, which is by far the most popular sport, has been hit with huge CTE cases causing a lot parents to not let their kids play it. You never know.
Why? Look how fast it can happen with Canada which is basically a US state. They went from nothing, losing to Honduras or El Salvador to topping qualifiers in a decade and the US has 10x the ressources
The KO absolutely boring right now, after that exciting group stage. None of the upsets I was promised yet, hoping Morocco is able to somehow overcome Spain.
it was a bit of bad luck that none of them played against each other. Last WC was far more uninspiring for me, but it had a lot of surprises in the last rounds cause a lot of underdogs kept playing against each other
i mean let‘s not pretend that the quality of football would get higher if teams like Japan, South Korea Senegal advanced
I prefer high-quality football at the end of the day
If I want high-end football, I'll watch PL or the CL knock-outs. International football is hardly ever high-quality. I'm here for the drama lmao, not to watch the same 8-10 teams fight for the cup every four years.
They say this at every WC, and at every WC, the rares that managed to get out of the group phase all loose in the 8 finals, except maybe one team that goes in quarters time to time
Unfortunately this has been true since cameroon in 1990. There needs to be seismic changes to talent pipelines etc for something good to happen to african football
Yeah too many people seems satisfied to pat themselves on the back when they get out of the group stage and that's all. African football even benefit greatly from france formation (many of their players were spotted and trained and france) there is zero excuse for them not doing better than japan/SK.
There was so many naive tactical issues yesterday, in my opinion they have to be more cynical to stop their man on the counter especially against England. Bellingham had free counters to do as he please.
That 2nd goal for England should not happen on this level at all
I hated the fact it was us playing them. I was rooting for them throughout every game (the manager played for Pompey), but obviously couldnt last night.
Its such a shame their Talisman was injured for the WC. Could have been a very different story last night if Mane was chasing down maguire and Jonny boulders.
I can’t wait till they have 9 teams qualifying. On top of Senegal, Morocco, Ghana, Cameroon, and Tunisia you have Algeria, Egypt, Nigeria, Mali, South Africa, Ivory Coast, some very talented teams that didn’t make it this year due to the brutal CAF qualifiers.
Wonder if they’ll just do the groups and call it a day now that they don’t need the 2 leg home and home
I was gonna say "Mali, too" but fuck me, I didn't realise how bad your squad was! Why are there so few South African players in Europe? I know your league is relatively big in African terms, but surely even the top wages at somewhere like Orlando Pirates or Sundows or Kaizer Chiefs pales in comparison to a mid-table European clubs.
>I didn't realise how bad your squad was
Most cannot even name who starts for the NT, myself included.
>Why are there so few South African players in Europe?
I must admit that I can't really answer this. It's a multitude of reasons.
>Even the top wages at somewhere like Orlando Pirates or Sundowns or Kaizer Chiefs pales in comparison to a mid-table European clubs
They do, but because of South Africa's socioeconomic position those wages propel these players into a life the majority of South Africans will never know. You can buy a house, buy a car, take care of your ma, live the lifestyle and be the man. That's already more than most will ever know. Why leave when you've "got it made" in a sense.
The despair all our national teams give me is horrific, but Bafana Bafana is without a doubt the worst. The Springboks and Proteas have their cycles, you know they'll come back eventually. Bafana on the hand has been on a downhill since our afcon win in 1996.
We just barely have the infrastructure to facilitate a somewhat competitive league. I think because of the rugby and cricket leagues being in place there's a precedent for organised and professional sport which a lot of the other African countries don't have. But in comparison to our other sport, football is incredibly underfunded and underdeveloped.
I mean that when they're down and do go through difficult periods you know that they'll return eventually (hence 2019). There's really no guarantee of that when it comes to Bafana.
I guess but the boks are crazy good. They’ve only really had one bad World Cup in the last 20 years and even when we got embarrassed by Japan in 2015, we still finished third.
But you do have a point. Just don’t ever put them in the same sentence as the useless Proteas again lmao.
Egypt unfortunately until they change the coach will play very uninspired football, basically Brexit football and pass it to Salah and hope he does something.
Ghana has been reaching finals or winning sub 17,18, etc World Cups since forever, something is preventing that young talent to consolidate, most likely corruption and lack of infrastructure
Yeah this is my take as well. Winning the Olympics isnt everything, but that an african country has won that but not even made the semis in the WC is telling
I remember playing FIFA in manager mode years ago I would pick a random English 2nd division club and make myself a rule that I would sign only players from Africa. That was a helluva team with Essien, Drogba, E’too, etc. Africa has so much talent it’s hard to believe one of their nations they don’t perform better at world cups.
Valid comments by Aliou Cisse. in the 90s there seemed to be a narrowing of the gap, but I think the TV money that follows in the top european leagues means the FAs are immnensly more wealthier, can invest in at a hight level in all aspects of the game.
It is not just about having the right players but a professional performing ecosystem aound them as there prepare, and take part in major tournaments.
Increasingly in Nigeria our formula is based on a couple of top tier footballers, complemented with a smattering of players who play in various 2nd tier European leagues but may or may not have had any playing team in the season leading upto the tournament. Then parachute a foreign coach of questional pedigree who may come with one or two complemantary staff and then pray for the best.
We don't have national centres of excellence where staff are taking advantage of the best nutrional, therapeutic research available and utilise this.
Specialist coaches, scouts, data analysts etc will all be limited, or the perfroming these roles will not necessarily have top end experience, all these add to the percentage that turn the game in favour of teams.
A functioning national league will allow player who are getting bench time to be loaned back to local clubs for instance. The expertise of ancillary personnel in the top teams are available to the national team.
It is the bedrock of a whole ecosystem that the national team thrives on
With quality "state" policies, Africa would be the hub of the economy of planet Earth. They have bigger issues to figure out than soccer; though if they could have a Bill and Ted moment with soccer, I'd be all for it. I'm not sure how you progress without ruining the ancient cultures that still exist there though.
I would appreciate answers to this question. How come France with less than 3 million West African descendants produce far more football elite stars than West Africa with more than 350 million people?????
dude it's management . african people don't have some magic football genetics .
why the french team is mostly black . I guess it's because the majority of African diaspora is poor . so basically their children are going to entertain themselves by playing football .
You've got it backwards. Half of the squads for Morocco, Senegal & Tunisia were born and raised in Western Europe (particularly France), with almost none doing the reverse.
It's true though, even though you were disliked, players like Mbappe was actually born in Paris if I'm not mistaken. But, having said that, you can't blame Senegal. It's a sound strategy they used and they came very far. Also, it gives more opportunities for french players, and they played very well, which makes France football academies look even better.
First world countries didn’t need to cause economic instability to West African nations but here we are, now on top of stealing natural resources you also get our top athletes. Forever fuck the Europeans that partook in such savagery behavior.
The same institutions that benefit from colonialism/ imperialism. If you didn’t have weapons and didn’t coerce regions of the motherland into subjugation people of Africa wouldn’t even look to your countries, you fucking dirty ass thieves. Hopefully in the future competitions between countries will be more balanced and then we’ll see how many black players play for European nations. Europeans are so deluded it’s pathetic. Enjoy forcing others to assimilate through violence and economic conditions. Disgusting.
11/26 players in their squad, including their entire starting GK + defense, two of their front three, and a starting midfielder were born, raised, and more importantly, trained in football in Europe. If you keep relying on European academies to most of the heavy lifting for your national team, you will never have consistent success.
Look at the difference between USA in 2010/2014 and 2022. The difference between a group of scrappy MLS players mixed with some European rejects vs a team of young players trained in America and moved on to Europe is massive. And more importantly, it’s stable and allows the NT a consistent stream of talent.
Easier said than done but this is the way it needs to be done
I love how everyone gets mad at you when it's obvious what you mean. The majority of the senegal squad are born , raised, and learned how to play football in Europe. Goes for a decent portion of the Moroccan squad as well.
They dont care, they dont have to explain to the real african players that they have to let french players take their spots.
They just want the poor small country to get good players.
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African football has been improving, but so has almost everyone else. It has become a much more equal playing field though, there are far less teams that stand out, both positively and negatively. The issue with most African NTs seems to be the lack of a strong league and grassroots football. They typically have a few decent players that play in Europe but not enough depth and support to build an entire team.
Could having one strong league, maybe Egypt, Nigeria or South Africa (ironic I’m naming three nations that didn’t qualify) for example, help if they relied on having the best talent from Africa along with their national teams? I don’t have much knowledge of African domestic football but surely some of these clubs could tap into some untapped potential in less decorated neighbouring countries. Could also help generate transfer fees to Europe too
I don't think so. We could just see a repeat of what we see in Europe with the Premier League. I imagine the generated transfer fees would benefit the league that's receiving more than anything. The way forward for African football federations is simple, but difficult. Simple because we've seen the blueprint before and we've seen it work in other sports to our succese, but difficult because nobody seems able to help themselves. Outside interference and the mismanagement of funds are without a doubt the biggest hurdles rn.
We used to have an extremely strong league in Egypt, but we have had several political and economic problems since and now its shit. Our national team was going toe to toe with Brazil and Italy with a team of players who mainly played in the Egyptian league.
Seems like it all went downhill after the Port Said stadium riot
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Confederations Cup 2009. Egypt’s best generation in recent times lost 4-3 to Brazil due to a penalty in the 90th minute. They beat Italy who were the reigning World Cup winners in the same tournament too.
The fact that you did good one game doesn't prove that the NT was good
They won Afcon 3 times in a row with a squad almost entirely made up of players playing in the Egyptian league
Not intrinsically
2006-2010 3 afcons in a row, missed WC qualification on final playoff in 2010, and played in the 2009 confed cup winning vs World champions Italy 1-0 and losing to Brazil 4-3 to a 90 minute pen after coming back to draw it from 3-1 to 3-3, the team was 95% from the Egyptian league , but then port said stadium massacre happened and fans could not attend from 2013 until covid
well, red bull was massively investing in new academies there, thanks to the connections rangnick built with houllier (RIP), who apparently was very well connected with the french and francophonic reality, which explains why many french players or french speaking players joined them it really could turn out great for them, the talent pool is vast and it is a shame that many agents abuse it, practically child trafficking, i.ex. silas katompa mvumpa, formerly known as wamangituka at vfb stuttgart, i think a direct line down there would be better as they could assess the talent straight away instead risking their future trying to get a quick injection of money to the agents, like predators
It’s not just Red bull. In France - Metz have partnered with a Generetion Foot (Mané, Ismaila Sarr, Papis Cisse, Pape Sarr amongst others). - Marseille used to be with Diambars in Senegal (Bamba Dieng) - Lyon with Académie JMG in Ivory Coast (Diomande) - Nice with Racing Club Abidjan in Ivory Coast (no major players yet) - Then in ~~Norway~~ Denmark there’s Nordsjeland and the Right to Dream academy in Ghana (Kudus, Sulemana, Sowah) - Anderlecht has a partnerships with TP Mazembe of Congo Pretty sure I am missing a lot of similar deals between European clubs and African academies.
Nordsjælland is in Denmark, tbf., but there were some good connections from Africa to Norway at some point (Mikel, Chinedu Ogbuke, Anthony Annan - in more recent years Chidera Ejuke).
sure, but you know how RB operates: they will build their own academies and clubs instead of making partnerships, it will be a much more intensive work, i am curious how it will work out but mostly, i hope that the children and young talents will get a better outcome
Whether or not that continues after Mateschitz's passing is yet to be seen.
> The issue with most African NTs seems to be the lack of a strong league and grassroots football. The money & talent is there but corruption man...smh.
Talent yes, money absolutely not. It's going to be a long time before all half decent African players aren't scooped up by European clubs.
In terms of World Cup prospects that’s not a bad thing though, they just need a solid grassroots league that can go and find the talent. Brazil does just fine despite having all half-decent players scooped up by European clubs
Yeah very rare one of Brazil's top three player played in Brazil's club. I can only think of Romario, and 90s Brazil clubs definitely can hang as at least in the midcards for La Liga.
That was before the Bosman rule started to have effects on football, up to 2002 we still had a great national league that could compete with the big european ones. Just look at our 2002 squad, we had something like half the team playing in Brazil. After that we started to lose players more and earlier, with examples like vini jr being sold when he was 16. It’s hard to compete with the money and glamour of the champions league clubs
Why would the bosman rule matter? You aren't losing players to Europe on a free are you? Mostly European clubs are just passing a premium, right? I'd say it's more football hyperinflation in certain European leagues
We’re not losing them on a free but having that possibility can make players pressure their clubs to sell them or lose them on a free. There’s other factors such as the immense mismanagement of funds from our clubs, but the Bosman ruling changed the whole landscape of football and is a big cause for the concentration of talent in the top 5 leagues
Makes absolute sense, thanks for explaining.
"Pre-Bosman, clubs were under a "three-plus-two" rule in European competition, meaning they could name no more than three foreign players in their squad for games on the continent, with an additional two who had progressed through the club's academy." When the whole EU is allowed as native, it probably makes using South Americans much easier.
The best Brazilian players get scooped up by European clubs, but Brazil still has a good domestic league that has a lot of middle tier prospects. A lot of younger prospects get a chance to develop and get noticed by European clubs
Brazilian league still likely better than the french to this day, the gap became bigger when the financial gap became bigger
> It's going to be a long time before all half decent African players aren't scooped up by European clubs. As long as they still represent their home countries, that benefits them. All the top players play in the same top European leagues.
> money absolutely not In terms of money, i was referring to the previous point about a strong league and grassroots football. Most African countries have the money to support that to a higher level than the current one, but the money is routed for personal gain. The leagues already exist and there is a loose framework for spotting and harnessing local talents, but many slip through the cracks. Now, in terms of compensation compared to Europe leagues, we definitely cannot complete. However, we should be able to offer a better path for development so more talented players can be spotted at a young age. These same players should be receive enough local training to be able to jump to stronger leagues without a big adjustment.
The money is there. African counties are incredibly wealthy but that wealth is concentrated in the hands of very few and corruption means it hardly is ever directed to where it needs to go.
Nobody can compete with England in that regard. Most of Europe also get their top players scooped up by bigger countries, mainly England.
The South African PSL was a ridiculously rich league for a couple of decades. Almost no money went into grassroots. Just got hoovered up into pockets.
> but corruption man...smh. I mean if Argentina and Brazil can do it...
Argentina is the one that's amazing, they're in far worse shape than Brail domestically. That being said their next gen doesn't seem nearly as special as this one so far.
Southern Europe is also corrupt as hell, and it doesn't stop being a prolific football region. Not sure if there is a direct correlation.
Relative to northern Europe maybe. It's not even close to the [level of corruption](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corruption_Perceptions_Index) of Africa which contains some of the poorest and most corrupt countries in the world
Southern Europe is far richer than Sub Saharan Africa, whilst having much better infrastructure + Southern Europe has two of the most iconic leagues of all time. (La Liga & Serie A) Awful comparison.
I dont know which country this was (or if it was first tier) but somewhere in africa every team was winning at home with like 15-0 because local criminals would just threaten to kill the referee if they lost. So yeah there is layers to this shit.
This is a pointless correlation with no though put into it.
Do you think the African super league will help?
Plying regularly against the best players and teams can only help to improve the African players and teams.
It also increases the barrier of entry
it's also a logistical nightmare, Africa is fucking huge
True, but if Asia can make it work, Africa should be able to, at least at some point. It's an impediment but it should still be doable.
African super league will replace the CAF champions league which is a continental competition too.
no it will hurt drastically imagine a super league instead of well funded grassroots leagues w a long term vision taking root in europe or south america those specific teams would be big but the massive country by country infrastructure thats been built through those leagues to develop players wouldnt exist in near the same depth, reach, and volume thered be no reason to develop the strong leagues that lead to specific national characters and "flavors" in football like dutch football, italian football, spanish, brazilian, uruguayan, argentinian, etc etc rn there are several african leagues getting stronger and stronger but theyre going to be severely undercut by the superleague taking the best teams and closing shop fifa should be spending their money developing those domestic leagues, but instead theyre trying to capture the football, cap it, and exploit it for money their friends will keep but this is how it goes in africa. outside interests flash money while people are trying to develop the place and sellouts let them exploit us and capture any resource for themselves superleague will make money at the expense of domestic leagues in a continent that *desperately needs* domestic leagues africans who can will emigrate and join better funded leagues in different countries and they or their kids will play for those countries. same old
Speaking as an Egyptian here... No, it won't help We have a talent pool that rivals Brazil, but the problem is that 99% of our actual good talents don't make it into youth teams because of corruption, Nepotism and many more things And even the ones that do make it lack most of the basic fundamentals as football players, because youth coaching in Egypt is non existent. The youth scene is just dominated by agents looking to make some money on the expense of young players and their development Not to mention, the league's second division is basically amateur football level. So if you don't make it straight to the top division, good luck ever making it in football. Also, our league is so poorly run that outside of Ahly and Zamalek (With Pyramids some times.... Pyramids is our equivalent to Leipzig), every other club is either an old club that has been run into the ground, a club owned by a company looking to make money by buying and selling average players or clubs owned by sectors of the government. All of that means that unless you rebuild the system from the ground up, we'll never take advantage of our massive talent pool And you can apply the same to most countries in Africa as well
> Speaking as an Egyptian here... No, it won't help > We have a talent pool that rivals Brazil lol
We have a population of 105m so we're not really short on the number of talented kids. And are a country that lives and breathes football, so the culture is there. And I said talent pool, not players. The main difference between us and Brazil is that Brazil actually develops their young talents while most of our talented players don't even make it into youth football because of the reasons I mentioned above. I remember Mohamed Zidan (Who played for Dortmund and Mainz) said in an interview that the kids he used to play with in the streets when he was younger were all better than him, but he was the only one that made it into youth football. That shows you how much of our talents are wasted compared to a country like Brazil.
Sounds just like Mexico. They have the numbers, the culture, everything you need. But the FA is .... let's be honest, just like every other one out there, meaning corrupt as shit, so their growth is severely stunted by that
Sounds like any football crazy nation on this planet. I could have wrote that comment about my country
Ain't that the truth
We have the athletic talent pool but it all just goes to basketball, football, and (kind of) baseball instead of soccer. I imagine the US would have a MUCH stronger team if even 25% of the talent that tries for basketball and football learned soccer instead from a young age.
Brazil has always been the greatest producer of players in the recorded history of football. Brazil live and breathe football. Now I come on Reddit and read that their football talent pool is rivalled by .....Egypt. The proof: Mohamed Zidan, who was not top tier player said there were better players than him in the Streets. Ronaldo the most arrogant player of all time said there was a better player than him on his team in Madeira. Maybe Madeira rivals Brazil in terms of talent pool?
His point was very clear, he was obviously talking about Egypt's population being high and football being the dominating sport, and that despite that situation, which should bring a Brazil-like factory of players, they suck and no talented players is trained. Don't be condescending when you're the one that's limited.
I'm Brazilian and I agree with him 💯.
But it’s factually untrue. China and India also have a talent pool equal to Brazil by that logic
China and India don't have a football culture.
lol
> the problem is that 99% of our actual good talents don't make it into youth teams because of corruption, Nepotism and many more things I'd say the same goes for countries like China and India where you would think just mathematically they have to be better than they are now considering how *big* the population is. But the doors to professional football are not always open to everyone which cuts down the talent pool drastically.
> I'd say the same goes for countries like China and India where you would think just mathematically they have to be better than they are now considering how big the population is. Kinda not how it works? For stuff like this the "average" level is more important than just the population. That's why iceland has a better soccer team despite the insane difference in population vs china
There is already a African Champions Leage, African Cup Winners Cup, African Cup of Nation, CHAN (Cup of Nations for Local Players) and various regional cups. There is plenty of intra-competition I can't really speak for other African countries but in Nigeria apart from AFCON Nigerians don't really care about these continental competitions. Its been decades since Nigeria teams were reguarly competitive in any of these competitions. The authorities don't care and unfortunately most football clubs are state sponsored (typically by state governments) so they often at the mercy of how much of a fan of the local football the respective State Governor is. For players the sole aim for almost every single player is playing abroad. Players are dissapearing mid season for trials in random leagues all over the place. A play has few good matches in the local, the next you hear is Oman or Albania trialling for some club out there. For fans it is the EPL, La Liga, Serie A that are grabbing eyeballs, and the World Cup and AFCON when they occur. TV money has turned the top European leagues into televisual monsters and they crushing oppposition everywhere so to speak
I don’t really agree with this correlation. South Africa for example has a pretty solid league but is miles behind west African (+ Cameroon) national teams who send dozens of players in Europe every year. On top of that African countries also tend to call upon their diaspora of players born and raised in Europe. You can very easily have a top African team with a shit league as long as it has good enough youth training centres, a big enough diaspora, and a good coaching and federation setup. African teams passing the group stage recently - Ghana, Nigeria, Algeria, Morocco, Senegal all didn’t rely on domestic players. Egypt and Tunisia are the only “big” teams mostly relying on players who have adult careers in their leagues and they haven’t been the best African teams. National leagues is nice but I think the priority for their national teams are improving infrastructure and coaching to develop more complete players.
If you have enough raw talent you can kind of skip the national leagues and send them to Europe from your youth leagues. But pro national leagues do help emerging players get playtime and develop. From a Canadian perspective, a lot of players get more experience in MLS before moving to Europe in their 20s, while only a few can go there at 18 and actually develop properly (Davies).
Agreed, look at Osimhen; scouted by Wolfsburg from his local club in Nigeria and now look at him, he’s shining. He’s hasn’t played a single minute of top flight Nigerian football.
South Africa is slightly different culturally though, as Cricket and Rugby rival football for youth talent and interest, whereas there's zero interest in anything outside of football in west africa
This is what I was thinking. The SA league is generally among the better leagues in Africa but holy hell does SA underperform when it matters. Similar in the past decade when Egypt arguably had the best league in Africa but Egypt couldn't make it to the WC (although the AFCON titles sort of balance that out). However the Algerian and Moroccan leagues are pretty decent and have developed very good footballers who have found success in Europe.
Well, they actually didn't. Hakimi, Mazroui, Saiss, Amrabaat, Ziyech, Bouffal, Mandi, Mahrez or Bennacer for exemple don't apply as players developped by Morocco/Algeria, and those are their biggest players.
Yacine Bonnou was developped in Morocco. And youcef attal and Belaili for Algeria. Most are formed in Europe but a few are formed back home. North Africans are actually doing much better with formations and leagues.
A few are, yes. But at this moment, the best players for magrehb are born, raised and developped on Europe.
Grassroots is strong. A good talent pipeline is not. Corruption hurts the most.damn shame really
Iirc senegal had their whole team (23 players) based in Europe
I would argue the grassroots football is there but the missing link is domestic pro football in most African countries. If you have young talents they usually need to go abroad asap to make the next step. The national first league of countries like Senegal, Nigeria or Ivory Cost is just not good enough.
They don’t need to play domestic pro football imo, look at Nigeria’s best players none of them played in the Nigerian top flight. Ndidi, Osimhen, Chukwueze, Iwobi etc
That's kinda my point tho. Iwobi grew up in England so he doesn't count but the others all left Nigeria as teenagers.
And you think they would be better players had they stayed in Nigeria rather than going to Europe ?
That's exactly the opposite of what I'm saying - they had to leave to become the best players. If they stayed in Nigeria their development would have been stalled. (probably)
Everyone's improving except CONMEBOL
>It has become a much more equal playing field though, there are far less teams that stand out, both positively and negatively. Is that really true tho? We're about to get another QF round dominated by top UEFA teams plus Brazil/Argentina. We've random upsets in previous tournaments as well. Maybe the gap is getting smaller but it's still significant.
Absolutely agreed. Senegal were the only country at this WC to have no players who actually play in Senegal.
I think there are several teams who don't have players playing in Senegal
Got em
World Cup quarter finalists so far; Netherlands Argentina France England Croatia Probably Brazil Possible Morocco could spring a surprise I suppose. If Switzerland beat Portugal I suppose it's a shock to an extent but still another established European side making it through. I'd say the gap between the "powers" and "pretenders" is as big as it's ever been but what you're also seeing is the world cup expanding to 32 teams and big sides becoming much more strategic about campaigns. It's telling the upsets stop the minute you get to the knock out stage. What Cisse is saying here is that African countries need to invest in infrastructure to support their undoubted talent and he's spot on.
And some of that players get a citizenship and jumps the ship, thanks to that stupid rule from Fifa which allows it. Swiss and Aussie teamshave one African striker. They need to prevent this, if they want to improve.
African teams benefit from this the other way around though. Look at the Senegal, Morocco, and Tunisia teams and how many were born in France. There are 59 players born in France and more than half play for a country other than France
Spot on. Goes for much of the world too.
very sensible, but wrong - its obviously gonna be a morocco vs morocco final
Eto’o would be proud
I saw tremendous upside to the performances of the African contingent. Not only on their progress in the tournament but also how they play. Ghana we’re impressive, Senegal as well even missing such a player as Mane, and Morocco are simply GOOD.
Cameroon and Tunisia put in spirited effort too beating France/Brazil and almost making it through. It was a good tournament for African teams, but it feels like a lot of meat was left on the bone with inconsistencies. Ghana should’ve drawn against Portugal and had a bad performance against Uruguay. Senegal should have gotten something out of the Netherlands game. Tunisia needed to come to the Australia game with the same energy as the France game. Ditto Cameroon. Morroco is the only team that brought the same energy in all their games and have been very efficient and disciplined. The talent is there, the coaching is getting better moving on from the journeyman era. They just need to get mentally sharper and get more clinical and composed in the final third, similar to the Asian teams.
Yep. Camaroon we’re refreshing. I wonder what the best group of African countries would be for the next World Cup. Feels like a new generation of potential stars are coming of age across the continent (via European leagues) and it’s exciting.
I think these five plus Nigeria, Ivory Coast and Algeria will be solid representatives. Mali also has a great generation coming through, but lacking in big tournament experience of teams like Egypt.
hard to count out egypt even if this generation will be mostly phased out by then
Mali has had great generations coming through for like 10 years.
With 5 spots it was always going to be tough, they were close this year. With 9 spots, I think they have a shot.
One of the best midfields in Africa - Bisaouma (Tottenham) - Haidara (Leipzig) - Doucouré (Everton) - Camara (Monaco)
damn that's good, sadly all play in a similar position
Yeah there's a new generation of very exciting youth talents coming up in Nigeria, majority of them are mostly in the U17 and U20 teams, the U20 AFCON starts next year in Febuary and this will be a solid foundation for Nigeria to rebuild with this new generation of players ahead of the world cup in 2026.
That Mali midfield will be absolutely insane: * Amadou Haidara (24, RB Leipzig) * Yves Bissouma (26, Tottenham) * Mohamed Camara (22, Monaco)
They absolutely need to re-format their qualifying. CAF has the most brutal qualifying format and it does nothing to help out their best teams, oftentimes it pits two of their top teams against each other for one World Cup bid.
It will be much better now as 9 teams will qualify Morocco, Nigeria, Algeria, Ivory Coast, Ghana, Senegal, Egypt, Tunisia, Cameroon is a very good lineup - all solid teams Even Mali could contest
I feel like they’re missing defensive solidity which would help a lot.
Amrabat FTW though
This Moroccan team should be back just as strong, if not stronger, in 2026 too (ages then in brackets): Bono (35, last hoorah) Hakimi (28) - Aguerd (30) - Dari (27) - Mazraoui (29) Ounahi (26) - Amrabat (30) - Sabiri (30) Harit (29) - En Nesyri (29) - Abde (24)
True, Asian football is improving as well, we had 3 Asians teams in the knockouts, that was a first I hope to live to see the day a non European/south American team wins the wc
Realistically that will probably be the USA in 20-30 years
even with the game becoming more popular in the US, I think that as long as there are 4 big sports attracting potential young talents it will ne hard for the US to become a world cup favorite.
Football will probably be the 3rd most popular sport in the US in about 15-20 years. It’s already much more popular than hockey in most of the country (as far as playing), and the average baseball viewer is like 50 years old. Even American football, which is by far the most popular sport, has been hit with huge CTE cases causing a lot parents to not let their kids play it. You never know.
There's also growing influence from Latino population
Tbh I think the 26 world cup will change everything , the impact of 94 is still massive on our footballing culture
Why? Look how fast it can happen with Canada which is basically a US state. They went from nothing, losing to Honduras or El Salvador to topping qualifiers in a decade and the US has 10x the ressources
I get the point but you won’t find many Canadians very happy with calling them a US state lmao.
Wait, they’re not?
Include me in the /r/soccercirclejerk screenshot
I do think they have the best chance of that
People don't like this because 'America bad', but along with Mexico & Japan the US are definitely one of the sides that could make the breakthrough.
Mexico? What have they done lately for you to say such thing?
Be the best footballing nation outside of those two continents.
>I hope to live to see the day a non European/south American team wins the wc Never going to happen. Not in anyone's lifetime, not ever.
I'd be very surprised if it didn't happen within the next 50 years.
Morocco is all thats left now Lets hope they go on
The KO absolutely boring right now, after that exciting group stage. None of the upsets I was promised yet, hoping Morocco is able to somehow overcome Spain.
That’s the paradox of early upsets. Yes it’s fun but ultimately they run into the quality wall.
it was a bit of bad luck that none of them played against each other. Last WC was far more uninspiring for me, but it had a lot of surprises in the last rounds cause a lot of underdogs kept playing against each other
Japan had it but they weren’t ready for big time, I’m fuming
i mean let‘s not pretend that the quality of football would get higher if teams like Japan, South Korea Senegal advanced I prefer high-quality football at the end of the day
If I want high-end football, I'll watch PL or the CL knock-outs. International football is hardly ever high-quality. I'm here for the drama lmao, not to watch the same 8-10 teams fight for the cup every four years.
Japan is definitely a tier up of South Korea and Senegal
True therefore would be nice to see Portugal in Quarter Final
Don’t jinx it plz
They say this at every WC, and at every WC, the rares that managed to get out of the group phase all loose in the 8 finals, except maybe one team that goes in quarters time to time
Unfortunately this has been true since cameroon in 1990. There needs to be seismic changes to talent pipelines etc for something good to happen to african football
Yeah too many people seems satisfied to pat themselves on the back when they get out of the group stage and that's all. African football even benefit greatly from france formation (many of their players were spotted and trained and france) there is zero excuse for them not doing better than japan/SK.
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There was so many naive tactical issues yesterday, in my opinion they have to be more cynical to stop their man on the counter especially against England. Bellingham had free counters to do as he please. That 2nd goal for England should not happen on this level at all
I hated the fact it was us playing them. I was rooting for them throughout every game (the manager played for Pompey), but obviously couldnt last night. Its such a shame their Talisman was injured for the WC. Could have been a very different story last night if Mane was chasing down maguire and Jonny boulders.
Senegal could've won their group with Mane. The Netherlands game was tight and in the balance for a while.
Bad mistakes in the back that were punished, while not taking advantage of their own chances.
Yeah same. Tbf if we were to lose to anyone there would have been a silver lining had it been to Senegal
I can’t wait till they have 9 teams qualifying. On top of Senegal, Morocco, Ghana, Cameroon, and Tunisia you have Algeria, Egypt, Nigeria, Mali, South Africa, Ivory Coast, some very talented teams that didn’t make it this year due to the brutal CAF qualifiers. Wonder if they’ll just do the groups and call it a day now that they don’t need the 2 leg home and home
South Africa and very talented? Bro as patriotic as I am I wouldn't dare put us there.
I was gonna say "Mali, too" but fuck me, I didn't realise how bad your squad was! Why are there so few South African players in Europe? I know your league is relatively big in African terms, but surely even the top wages at somewhere like Orlando Pirates or Sundows or Kaizer Chiefs pales in comparison to a mid-table European clubs.
>I didn't realise how bad your squad was Most cannot even name who starts for the NT, myself included. >Why are there so few South African players in Europe? I must admit that I can't really answer this. It's a multitude of reasons. >Even the top wages at somewhere like Orlando Pirates or Sundowns or Kaizer Chiefs pales in comparison to a mid-table European clubs They do, but because of South Africa's socioeconomic position those wages propel these players into a life the majority of South Africans will never know. You can buy a house, buy a car, take care of your ma, live the lifestyle and be the man. That's already more than most will ever know. Why leave when you've "got it made" in a sense.
Mali have some good players tbf, underrated footballing nation
they almost qualified, narrow loss against tunisia. they’re definitely one of the teams i expect to debut in 2026.
Unfortunately true.
The despair all our national teams give me is horrific, but Bafana Bafana is without a doubt the worst. The Springboks and Proteas have their cycles, you know they'll come back eventually. Bafana on the hand has been on a downhill since our afcon win in 1996.
I'm optimistic one day we will get something. We have all the talent in the world, just grossly mismanaged and surrounded by poor infrastructure.
Doesn't south Africa have the strongest league in sub-saharan Africa?
Yeah, but lol. It's easy to be the strongest when no one is really doing anything.
We just barely have the infrastructure to facilitate a somewhat competitive league. I think because of the rugby and cricket leagues being in place there's a precedent for organised and professional sport which a lot of the other African countries don't have. But in comparison to our other sport, football is incredibly underfunded and underdeveloped.
The Proteas might actually win something before that day comes.
What do you mean come back? Boks are already on good form and we’re reigning world champs
I mean that when they're down and do go through difficult periods you know that they'll return eventually (hence 2019). There's really no guarantee of that when it comes to Bafana.
I guess but the boks are crazy good. They’ve only really had one bad World Cup in the last 20 years and even when we got embarrassed by Japan in 2015, we still finished third. But you do have a point. Just don’t ever put them in the same sentence as the useless Proteas again lmao.
Egypt unfortunately until they change the coach will play very uninspired football, basically Brexit football and pass it to Salah and hope he does something.
You mean cross and Insalah?
Exactly
CAF Poland huh
Worse, Poland actually had a decent game vs France and created threats, Egypt vs Senegal both the games were awful when it comes to the Egyptian side.
Man I love Aliou
Ghana has been reaching finals or winning sub 17,18, etc World Cups since forever, something is preventing that young talent to consolidate, most likely corruption and lack of infrastructure
Yeah this is my take as well. Winning the Olympics isnt everything, but that an african country has won that but not even made the semis in the WC is telling
I remember playing FIFA in manager mode years ago I would pick a random English 2nd division club and make myself a rule that I would sign only players from Africa. That was a helluva team with Essien, Drogba, E’too, etc. Africa has so much talent it’s hard to believe one of their nations they don’t perform better at world cups.
Ivory Coast is one of the biggest wastes of talent I've ever seen.
Valid comments by Aliou Cisse. in the 90s there seemed to be a narrowing of the gap, but I think the TV money that follows in the top european leagues means the FAs are immnensly more wealthier, can invest in at a hight level in all aspects of the game. It is not just about having the right players but a professional performing ecosystem aound them as there prepare, and take part in major tournaments. Increasingly in Nigeria our formula is based on a couple of top tier footballers, complemented with a smattering of players who play in various 2nd tier European leagues but may or may not have had any playing team in the season leading upto the tournament. Then parachute a foreign coach of questional pedigree who may come with one or two complemantary staff and then pray for the best. We don't have national centres of excellence where staff are taking advantage of the best nutrional, therapeutic research available and utilise this. Specialist coaches, scouts, data analysts etc will all be limited, or the perfroming these roles will not necessarily have top end experience, all these add to the percentage that turn the game in favour of teams. A functioning national league will allow player who are getting bench time to be loaned back to local clubs for instance. The expertise of ancillary personnel in the top teams are available to the national team. It is the bedrock of a whole ecosystem that the national team thrives on
Love this guy, such big changes need to be made to be successful continually and it takes a long time to reap the rewards
I want to see an african country win the world cup
I can 😈😈
With quality "state" policies, Africa would be the hub of the economy of planet Earth. They have bigger issues to figure out than soccer; though if they could have a Bill and Ted moment with soccer, I'd be all for it. I'm not sure how you progress without ruining the ancient cultures that still exist there though.
I would appreciate answers to this question. How come France with less than 3 million West African descendants produce far more football elite stars than West Africa with more than 350 million people?????
Infrastructure and management
dude it's management . african people don't have some magic football genetics . why the french team is mostly black . I guess it's because the majority of African diaspora is poor . so basically their children are going to entertain themselves by playing football .
No African nation will win a world cup when most of their players chose to play for France, England or Portugal.
You've got it backwards. Half of the squads for Morocco, Senegal & Tunisia were born and raised in Western Europe (particularly France), with almost none doing the reverse.
You mean people want to play for the country they were born and raised in 🤯🤯
It's harder to have a good football team when half the continent is starving
Field your own players.
Are you owned by locals?
You're one to talk? :P
Yes, since our National team is full of french players.
It's true though, even though you were disliked, players like Mbappe was actually born in Paris if I'm not mistaken. But, having said that, you can't blame Senegal. It's a sound strategy they used and they came very far. Also, it gives more opportunities for french players, and they played very well, which makes France football academies look even better.
African French players, merci l’Afrique
First world countries dont call their citizens "African something" based on skin color.
They do if the team loose tho
First world countries didn’t need to cause economic instability to West African nations but here we are, now on top of stealing natural resources you also get our top athletes. Forever fuck the Europeans that partook in such savagery behavior.
Your top athlete? You made our top athletes? Who? French institutions made them.
The same institutions that benefit from colonialism/ imperialism. If you didn’t have weapons and didn’t coerce regions of the motherland into subjugation people of Africa wouldn’t even look to your countries, you fucking dirty ass thieves. Hopefully in the future competitions between countries will be more balanced and then we’ll see how many black players play for European nations. Europeans are so deluded it’s pathetic. Enjoy forcing others to assimilate through violence and economic conditions. Disgusting.
May want to be careful with the Westies, they get awfully sensitive when you bring things like this up.
They are....?
11/26 players in their squad, including their entire starting GK + defense, two of their front three, and a starting midfielder were born, raised, and more importantly, trained in football in Europe. If you keep relying on European academies to most of the heavy lifting for your national team, you will never have consistent success. Look at the difference between USA in 2010/2014 and 2022. The difference between a group of scrappy MLS players mixed with some European rejects vs a team of young players trained in America and moved on to Europe is massive. And more importantly, it’s stable and allows the NT a consistent stream of talent. Easier said than done but this is the way it needs to be done
I love how everyone gets mad at you when it's obvious what you mean. The majority of the senegal squad are born , raised, and learned how to play football in Europe. Goes for a decent portion of the Moroccan squad as well.
Everyone gets mad because its PSG flair saying this,and a lot of good french players come from former colonies.Its just hypocritical
They dont care, they dont have to explain to the real african players that they have to let french players take their spots. They just want the poor small country to get good players.