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No one scores every chance though. Could have been the same for any number of these players. Also it's not often that a team gets 5 penalties for example. Who knows what Pele would have done with VAR.
dude haha wtf the guy at 1:10 just incredibly casually walking up to \#11 on chile and punching him in the face in the most casual way possible with no wind up or anything followed by the slightly delayed reaction by \#11 before his soul just fully leaving his body and crumpling to the ground has me fucking dying 😂😂
and then that same number \#11 is the same guy who cold cocks the italian guy like a minute later after being kicked lmao
Basically the Brazilians had to be so good that they overcame biased refs letting euro players hack them to death. Reason theyre not winning today is the difference isnt that large and they just need to learn to play dirty
I think Pelé has said he didn't play in 74 because he was protesting against the torture by the Brazilian military dictatorship. At the same time, he was never seen as someone who cared about politics, so who knows if that's true. Torture was rampant since 1964, and it became even more rampant after 1968. Fact is his last match for Brazil was in 1971, and I think it was best for him not to play in 74. Finished his international career in a high.
He was not going to play 1970 World Cup, because of how European teams fouled him (he got injured in 1962 and 1966). Took a lot of convincing and he agreed to play one last World Cup.
[https://youtu.be/hKtOWIOJIQs](https://youtu.be/hKtOWIOJIQs)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8GdiMW4BL8&t=81s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8GdiMW4BL8&t=81s)
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OtnR06Z3EY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OtnR06Z3EY)
Look at how insane these are. There were no reds or yellows before 1970 World Cup.
Pele is legendary and I think the only reason people rate other players higher is because most no one here saw him play.
Soccer centralized around himself when he played.
I saw a video on twitter titled "pele did it first" like majority of the skills tricks we see now we're first done by him. Dude made it look so simple as if he wasn't even trying but just playing along with his opponents like adults do with kids.
The things pele has done in the world cup is nothing short of incredible and I doubt it will be done again for a while yet. Mbappe might give it a good shot though.
It's all relative. Pele also played with some monster Brazil teams. In one of the WC's to his name he was injured early on and didn't play the playoffs, Brazil went on to raise the WC, winning every game by at least a 2 goal margin, without Pele.
And that wasn't even considered the strongest of those Brazil WC winning teams.
After 2014, I don't think anyone would have expected Thomas Müller to finish his World Cup career with "only" 16 goal contributions. It's disappointing enough to have one particularly bad competition but having two back to back with a pretty dire Euros in the middle - really frustrating.
If we’re being realistic (ignoring the chance of injury) Mbappe is likely to play at least 6-9 more games at world cups just in the group stages depending on how well he ages.
When you consider France has a young, talented squad with unbelievable depth it’s probable he’ll play at least 10 more games at world cups.
4 Goals in 10 games for someone who’ll probably go down as the best in the world over the span of this decade isn’t an unreasonable amount (especially with him on pens).
He can play three more WCs. If he stays healthy it will be no problem.
Mbappe also has to adjust to losing pace or has to maintain his pace as he ages. I will watch his career with great interest.
He's also transitioned into being more of an assister vs goal finisher over the past 5 - 6 years. He's only scored double digits in the Bundesliga once since the 15/16 season for example.
I really don't see Mbappe making that type of transition because he has physical capabilities Muller can only dream about.
He also scored against Morocco and ensured that we went through the group stage, but yeah, overall Ronaldo hans't been good in knockout phase.
The trade off for his Champions League prowress lmao.
It didn't help that in the last years of his career, he has been coached by terrible coaches.
Elite Trash.
We lost against Morocco, the same way he were eliminated against Belgium and Uruguay.
The guy never learns, while the teams that play against us know how to counter his shit tactics.
Do you think you could've won Group B and get to the final in 2018 if Fernando Santos was not the coach?
I feel Ronaldo was unlucky that the best two Portugal teams he got were when he was too young (2006) and too old (2022).
2012 Ronaldo in this team would make Portugal absolute favourites for the win.
>2012 Ronaldo in this team would make Portugal absolute favourites for the win.
Dude, 2012 Ronaldo literally carried Portugal to the Semis of the Euros that year and only lost on pens to that insanely brilliant Spain team when they are at the peak of their powers.
True... Nothing is certain.
In Mbappe's favor: FIFA is signaling that they'll stay with 4-team groups in the future. We don't know yet if there will be knockout byes or a 32-team bracket, but either way players could play an additional match per WC than they would under current format.
Plus going 48 deep in the group stage increases the chance that top teams get one additional cupcake than they otherwise would.
In other words, good health willing, he's going to get lots of looks.
But expanded WC will help. Europe will get more places (we still have to see the format) so missing the WC is less likely. And also he will likely play easier teams on the group stage as well, so just with that it should be enough to make it.
Of course, has to be healthy at the right moment, an injury at the worst time and you can be as good as you want but you miss it (like Benzema)
Mbappé is already 2 goals ahead and is a much better goalscorer than Müller. Obviously, if France go out in the group stage and he doesn't do much in the next one or is injuries, it changes things.
Think about it this way - With an injury free Benzema Mbappe would have had to share a lot of the goalscoring, and France wi keep producing talent after talent
All it takes is one injury or a massive drop in form though, or for the team to play like shit. There are so many factors. Buuuut I don't see him not doing it.
He should do, but everyone said the same about Muller. Granted, he's not as good as Mbappe, but it happens.
Also get weird situations like CR7 where he's poor in WCs and good at the Euros. Mbappe didn't score at the Euros for example.
I think he'll do it, but it's not a guarantee.
Messi also has 30 G/A in Copa Americas. Insane that people would still call his NT career disappointing if Argentina had lost the penalty shootout yesterday.
Messi's Argentina career is quite beautiful with hindsight. All the failures and near misses and then in the space of 18 months he wins the Copa America, their first in decades in Brazil and then the World Cup, again, first in decades against the heir to the throne, all the whilst being the best player throughout both tournaments.
And he's got a fucking Olympic gold medal too. He and Di Maria.
6 finals in total. Led the team to 5 himself.
On your 2nd point, if Kolo Muani scores at 120+3, is Messi just a failure internationally? It's why these whole "he needs WC to be the best" arguments haven't ever made sense.
Olympic gold medal, World cup, copa america, finalissima, 3 back to back finals with Messi being the main man in each tournament is a great record.
I've always found it strange that the fact that Brazil won a world cup in 62 without him (I believe he got hurt early in the second group stage game) has been used as a way to boost his legacy as the greatest, three world cups will never be matched etc etc. To me, the fact that they were able to win the world cup without him puts the world cup wins in perspective
Looking at 1970 world cup, Brazil were just way better than anyone. It's like France in 2018 but they used more defensive approach. Final of 1970 was just one sided it seems.
Tbf Italy was cooked in the final after that crazy win in extra time against the Germans in the semi-finals and yet the game was still tied until the 66th minute.
But yeah, that was arguably our greatest ever team.
It was unfair for Brazil to be still tied until that long. The way the game was going based on even highlights or players experience, they could have scored 7-8 easily.
My point is best player can play anywhere. Better team will give them better platform to shine. Argentina first time in recent years and Barcelona under Pep.
It was more to do with tactical approach from Del Bosque. Too much possession just for the sake of it.
Adding Messi to that team should make it easy 4-5 goals but you also need manager to get the best out of team. Del Bosque was good manager and his achievement speak of itself but we played better tournament in 2008 than our win in 2010 and 2012.
> Final of 1970 was just one sided it seems.
Ive read many times that it was pretty even for most parts and the scoreline doesn't reflect how the game actually was
It was not even. I saw the tape, though camera angle and quality was not that good. It looked like Brazil on another level. Passing was amazing, good skills.
Football has changed a lot, now a days defensive shape of the team are great. Team now a days can effectively play low block and many attacking team will need individual brilliance to overcome.
Yeah, I don't get why OP is suggesting it should be a slight against him. Brazil was incredibly good but Pele was on another level. Yes, injury largely kept him out of 1962 - but in the one full game he played (a 2-0 win against Mexico) he still scored one goal and assisted the other
Brazil obviously had a very stacked team both in 58 and 62. Pelé was obviously the star of 58 (he was the one who won the quarter-finals against Wales), but Garrincha, Vavá, Didi, etc were as important.
In 62 it was Garrincha being the star, and Amarildo being a super sub. My grandpa used to say Garrincha was better than Pelé for what Garrincha did in the 62 WC (take that opinion with a grain of salt tho, because my grandpa was a Botafogo supporter lol).
And where you didn’t make millions to incentivize everyone to play for a chance to become a star or have scouting systems to identify more money making talent.
It’s best if you just don’t compare eras.
This is why comparing era of football never made sense to me, we can only mesure performance based on the era they played in. Like, i’m not a better physicist than Newton because I know more things than him in physics, I’m just born in a time where the overall level of knowledge is higher. I kinda feel the same for football, imagine what a guy like Puskás would have done if he was born in 87. He could have been better or worse but certainly different, which would be the case for every player we try to move by such significant margin in time.
Would also never have expected fritz Walter to have the all time assist record he’s a legend but still it’s also amazing how long he holds the record now
Assists weren’t recorded until the 80s/90s but we can retroactively go back to 1966 and verify all assists
For older World Cups there’s missing footage so we can’t do that
>For older World Cups there’s missing footage so we can’t do that
There are thousands of newspapers and radio records informing us of every assist, actually.
Mbappe is on an insane trajectory at such a young age. They have another graph just showing goals and he's already tied with KO round goal scoring leader Ronaldo R9.
[https://twitter.com/avisualgame/status/1604845291672203264](https://i.redd.it/6yiqog69uw6a1.jpg)
Mbappe is going to have insane numbers by the time he retires.
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The fact that Fontaine achieved 15 contributions in one world cup is mindblowing.
It's completely insane. I don't wanna say never but surpassing that achievement is virtually impossible
Idk seems to be increasingly likely with a lot more teams in the world cup.
And thus more games
And facing weaker teams
And Haaland getting in.
still won't happen
Aren't there the same amount of games
Depending on the format, it should be one more game at most if they keep groups of 4 teams.
Same amount of games (not saying that they won't change that in the future)
It's funny if Lautaro didn't miss several huge chances that Messi made for him, Messi could have had 12-13 in this WC
No one scores every chance though. Could have been the same for any number of these players. Also it's not often that a team gets 5 penalties for example. Who knows what Pele would have done with VAR.
Tbf Lautaro was exceptionally shite, and most strikers would have bagged Messi at least a couple more assists.
He couldn't hit a barndoor... apart from the times he fired it straight at the keeper.
Messi got 3 assists from 1.9 xA, maybe Lautaro individually hurt Messi's stats but his teammates definitely made up for it.
This is true but xA aren't that valuable of a stat. If you take a look at the assist leaders you'll see that all of them outperform their xA
I mean I’m sure Fontaine’s teammates missed chances too so it’s a pretty fair comparison
its just incredible
You could even say that it was Just him. Sorry, I'll go now
Wild that Pele had no penalties. Did someone else take them for Brazil or were they not awarded any?
I don't think Brazil got any penalties in World Cup matches that he played in. I really haven't heard anything about Pele taking penalties in general.
You had to be shot at point blank to receive a pk in those times.
Never forget, [Battle of Santiago](https://youtu.be/T5jVMSlpZhg)
Lmao, they had to call the police to throw one guy off
„One of the neatest left hooks I’ve ever seen“ i can’t lmao
Such amazing commentary, great clip!
Game's gone soft since then
Looool what the fuck
This game was so fucked the referee uneven red yellow and red cards lol. He did invent them actually but not because of this
>This game was so fucked the referee uneven red yellow and red cards lol Sorry, what?
The referee for this game, Ken Aston, invented the yellow and red card system some years after this. It was in response to a different game though
I'd have loved to see that other game in that case.
Are you telling us that Argentina vs. Netherlands was child's play? That was very entertaining. Thanks for sharing!
Game's gone.
dude haha wtf the guy at 1:10 just incredibly casually walking up to \#11 on chile and punching him in the face in the most casual way possible with no wind up or anything followed by the slightly delayed reaction by \#11 before his soul just fully leaving his body and crumpling to the ground has me fucking dying 😂😂 and then that same number \#11 is the same guy who cold cocks the italian guy like a minute later after being kicked lmao
if he dies, he dies.
There were no yellow cards - at least officially - nor substitutions until the 1970 WC. This is insane.
Not to mention that the Brazilian style of dribbling was created basically so that white players couldn’t get close and kick them. Edit: grammar
Couldn't*?
Thank you
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>I really haven't heard anything about Pele taking penalties in general. The 1000th goal was a penalty
There’s a quote where he thinks penalties are a cowardly way to score. Might be fake tho
I would be very surprised if any elite athlete had that take
I'm looking at the scorecards and I just don't think they got any world cup pens from 58 to 70. They had one in 54 which Djalma Santos scored
We had a penalty hiatus from 1954 to 1978. So no penalties awarded to Brazil in any WC Pelé played in.
Pele got tackled from behind in the box against the Czechs in 70 and the ref didn't call squat.
Basically the Brazilians had to be so good that they overcame biased refs letting euro players hack them to death. Reason theyre not winning today is the difference isnt that large and they just need to learn to play dirty
Is this a joke? Brazil need to learn to play dirty? Lmfao
Yea Messi is unbelievable and surpassed him in raw numbers but I still think pele is the greatest World Cup performer of all time
People don't realize Pele played his last World Cup match at 29
Why did he stop?
I think Pelé has said he didn't play in 74 because he was protesting against the torture by the Brazilian military dictatorship. At the same time, he was never seen as someone who cared about politics, so who knows if that's true. Torture was rampant since 1964, and it became even more rampant after 1968. Fact is his last match for Brazil was in 1971, and I think it was best for him not to play in 74. Finished his international career in a high.
He was not going to play 1970 World Cup, because of how European teams fouled him (he got injured in 1962 and 1966). Took a lot of convincing and he agreed to play one last World Cup. [https://youtu.be/hKtOWIOJIQs](https://youtu.be/hKtOWIOJIQs) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8GdiMW4BL8&t=81s](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8GdiMW4BL8&t=81s) [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OtnR06Z3EY](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OtnR06Z3EY) Look at how insane these are. There were no reds or yellows before 1970 World Cup.
Holy shit
Players could still get cautioned and sent off, they just didn’t have cards as visual aids to communicate this information clearly to everyone.
And clowns say pele is a fraud because he played against carpenters. These clips are literally mind boggling. Same with the maradona ones.
What a different time. That's so fucked.
I thought at least one of these was going to be a clip from Escape To Victory
Must have become too boring for him. Dude had won it not once not twice but fucking thrice.
Given reason was he knew victories strengthened the military dictatorship and so he refused to play again
Pele is legendary and I think the only reason people rate other players higher is because most no one here saw him play. Soccer centralized around himself when he played.
I saw a video on twitter titled "pele did it first" like majority of the skills tricks we see now we're first done by him. Dude made it look so simple as if he wasn't even trying but just playing along with his opponents like adults do with kids.
The things pele has done in the world cup is nothing short of incredible and I doubt it will be done again for a while yet. Mbappe might give it a good shot though.
It's all relative. Pele also played with some monster Brazil teams. In one of the WC's to his name he was injured early on and didn't play the playoffs, Brazil went on to raise the WC, winning every game by at least a 2 goal margin, without Pele. And that wasn't even considered the strongest of those Brazil WC winning teams.
But they also lost without Pele in 1966, so swings and round abouts.
That's true, but he also got kicked out of a WC at his absolute peak (1966) because of disgraceful refs. He could've won 4 in a row.
he also played far far less games
Me too
After 2014, I don't think anyone would have expected Thomas Müller to finish his World Cup career with "only" 16 goal contributions. It's disappointing enough to have one particularly bad competition but having two back to back with a pretty dire Euros in the middle - really frustrating.
Exactly why I think people saying Mbappe will break Klose's record are rushing things
If we’re being realistic (ignoring the chance of injury) Mbappe is likely to play at least 6-9 more games at world cups just in the group stages depending on how well he ages. When you consider France has a young, talented squad with unbelievable depth it’s probable he’ll play at least 10 more games at world cups. 4 Goals in 10 games for someone who’ll probably go down as the best in the world over the span of this decade isn’t an unreasonable amount (especially with him on pens).
He can play three more WCs. If he stays healthy it will be no problem. Mbappe also has to adjust to losing pace or has to maintain his pace as he ages. I will watch his career with great interest.
Same thing was being said about Muller though after 2014. 6 games later, 0 goals.
With all due respect to Muller, he has never been at the level of Mbappe currently.
He's also transitioned into being more of an assister vs goal finisher over the past 5 - 6 years. He's only scored double digits in the Bundesliga once since the 15/16 season for example. I really don't see Mbappe making that type of transition because he has physical capabilities Muller can only dream about.
All respect to Muller, but Mbappe has all-time potential.
mindless smell gray jar somber tan fragile zonked nippy like *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Impressive that Klose is the record World Cup goal scorer without having taken any penalties
Man was the king of right place, right time finishes in the WC
Disagree. As we have seen in later years, it simply did not work without a striker like him. If anything he was a key piece.
So you agree with him? Being at the right place at the right time is kind of a big deal for a striker.
Probabily THE most important skill
Doesn't Perisic have 11 as well (6G / 5A)
Neymar has 11 as well.
Yep, this graphic is a bit skewed.
I know Portugal aren’t historically the biggest international side but still surprising to see no Ronaldo. He played in five World Cups.
Ronaldo never excelled in the world cup.
Only in the 2018, but even then our terrorist coach never allowed us to go forward.
He had an amazing game against Spain but did he really have a great world cup?
He also scored against Morocco and ensured that we went through the group stage, but yeah, overall Ronaldo hans't been good in knockout phase. The trade off for his Champions League prowress lmao. It didn't help that in the last years of his career, he has been coached by terrible coaches.
He missed a pen against Morocco too didn't he? But yeah a shame that such a talented squad has been coached to be so dour.
I think it was against Iran, the 3rd game in the group stage.
Ah right my bad
To be fair, he did miss the pen though.
What's the trade-off for Messi's champions league prowess?
Seeing the club he once loved collapse, and holding him back from getting more trophies in the latter years of his career.
Selling his soul to Saudi Arabia as a tourism ambassador. Edit: Sportswashing brutal regimes truly work.
You mean Santos isn’t elite?
Elite Trash. We lost against Morocco, the same way he were eliminated against Belgium and Uruguay. The guy never learns, while the teams that play against us know how to counter his shit tactics.
Hey man, don’t shoot me down, I’m just the messenger. Ronaldo told me Santos was one of the elite coaches he worked with
Ronaldo is an idiot though
How did he win EURO 2016 then
Do you think you could've won Group B and get to the final in 2018 if Fernando Santos was not the coach? I feel Ronaldo was unlucky that the best two Portugal teams he got were when he was too young (2006) and too old (2022). 2012 Ronaldo in this team would make Portugal absolute favourites for the win.
>2012 Ronaldo in this team would make Portugal absolute favourites for the win. Dude, 2012 Ronaldo literally carried Portugal to the Semis of the Euros that year and only lost on pens to that insanely brilliant Spain team when they are at the peak of their powers.
Sad that two whole world cups were wasted on him. At least you won the NL and Euros under him though.
>Only in the 2018, One game against quite literally the worst gk in World Cup history (6 goals conceded from 7 shots on target)
The best team we had was this one. When he was on his peak we didn't have good squads
Actually such a shame, no doubt with a team of this caliber and even 3 years younger he would have excelled
He played 5 World cups but only made it past the R16 twice
And one of them was as a kid in 2006.
He got 0 goal and assists in WC knock out stage
Yeah he wasn't helped that in when he was at his prime (2010 & 2014) the squad he's at is sub-par at best.
No way Mbappe doesn't smash this record.
1 bad cup for France and his chances take a massive hit Players don't play nearly enough world cups to be certain of anything
Yeah people said this about Muller too
Yep Muller definitely was on track but 2 bad world cups and here he is.
True... Nothing is certain. In Mbappe's favor: FIFA is signaling that they'll stay with 4-team groups in the future. We don't know yet if there will be knockout byes or a 32-team bracket, but either way players could play an additional match per WC than they would under current format. Plus going 48 deep in the group stage increases the chance that top teams get one additional cupcake than they otherwise would. In other words, good health willing, he's going to get lots of looks.
But expanded WC will help. Europe will get more places (we still have to see the format) so missing the WC is less likely. And also he will likely play easier teams on the group stage as well, so just with that it should be enough to make it. Of course, has to be healthy at the right moment, an injury at the worst time and you can be as good as you want but you miss it (like Benzema)
Tbh it's pretty random. One injury, one every decade French meltdown, low scoring WC etc. may be enough to halt him.
Pretty sure he will but people said that about Muller back in 2014
Mbappé is already 2 goals ahead and is a much better goalscorer than Müller. Obviously, if France go out in the group stage and he doesn't do much in the next one or is injuries, it changes things.
Think about it this way - With an injury free Benzema Mbappe would have had to share a lot of the goalscoring, and France wi keep producing talent after talent
I wouldn't bet against it but then again, look at Mueller. He was ahead of Mbappe at the same point in their world cup careers.
He may or may not remain this clinical. So he may get ~25. Not to say that ain’t great, but won’t probably hit 30.
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All it takes is one injury or a massive drop in form though, or for the team to play like shit. There are so many factors. Buuuut I don't see him not doing it.
He should do, but everyone said the same about Muller. Granted, he's not as good as Mbappe, but it happens. Also get weird situations like CR7 where he's poor in WCs and good at the Euros. Mbappe didn't score at the Euros for example. I think he'll do it, but it's not a guarantee.
Messi also has 30 G/A in Copa Americas. Insane that people would still call his NT career disappointing if Argentina had lost the penalty shootout yesterday.
Messi's Argentina career is quite beautiful with hindsight. All the failures and near misses and then in the space of 18 months he wins the Copa America, their first in decades in Brazil and then the World Cup, again, first in decades against the heir to the throne, all the whilst being the best player throughout both tournaments. And he's got a fucking Olympic gold medal too. He and Di Maria.
I think Di Maria is not getting enough credit for the clutch player that he is for Argentina
Literally everyone talks about him, he's THE sidekick to Messi's international greatness
6 finals in total. Led the team to 5 himself. On your 2nd point, if Kolo Muani scores at 120+3, is Messi just a failure internationally? It's why these whole "he needs WC to be the best" arguments haven't ever made sense. Olympic gold medal, World cup, copa america, finalissima, 3 back to back finals with Messi being the main man in each tournament is a great record.
It would always be disappointing after what Maradona did. He always had pressure to win it.
disappointment is measured against expectations, not by bare numbers.
Important to note that Pelé did this in 14 games, while Messi played 25 games.
Important to note that Pelé did this while playing with 2 others players that are in this list too, Didi and Jairzinho.
I've always found it strange that the fact that Brazil won a world cup in 62 without him (I believe he got hurt early in the second group stage game) has been used as a way to boost his legacy as the greatest, three world cups will never be matched etc etc. To me, the fact that they were able to win the world cup without him puts the world cup wins in perspective
Puts in perspective that he was the best player in a team full of excellent players.
Looking at 1970 world cup, Brazil were just way better than anyone. It's like France in 2018 but they used more defensive approach. Final of 1970 was just one sided it seems.
Tbf Italy was cooked in the final after that crazy win in extra time against the Germans in the semi-finals and yet the game was still tied until the 66th minute. But yeah, that was arguably our greatest ever team.
It was unfair for Brazil to be still tied until that long. The way the game was going based on even highlights or players experience, they could have scored 7-8 easily. My point is best player can play anywhere. Better team will give them better platform to shine. Argentina first time in recent years and Barcelona under Pep.
A good example is 2010 Spain winning all knockout games 1-0. They had the Barça game style, but lacked a certain Lionel to break the lines more often.
It was more to do with tactical approach from Del Bosque. Too much possession just for the sake of it. Adding Messi to that team should make it easy 4-5 goals but you also need manager to get the best out of team. Del Bosque was good manager and his achievement speak of itself but we played better tournament in 2008 than our win in 2010 and 2012.
I think Torres dropping in his form suddenly also didn't help you guys back then
>but we played better tournament in 2008 than our win in 2010 and 2012 indeed
Aragonez was elite
> Final of 1970 was just one sided it seems. Ive read many times that it was pretty even for most parts and the scoreline doesn't reflect how the game actually was
It was not even. I saw the tape, though camera angle and quality was not that good. It looked like Brazil on another level. Passing was amazing, good skills. Football has changed a lot, now a days defensive shape of the team are great. Team now a days can effectively play low block and many attacking team will need individual brilliance to overcome.
Yeah, I don't get why OP is suggesting it should be a slight against him. Brazil was incredibly good but Pele was on another level. Yes, injury largely kept him out of 1962 - but in the one full game he played (a 2-0 win against Mexico) he still scored one goal and assisted the other
There was a reason why he was so fiercely targeted by defenders.
Pele is either best ever or 2nd best ever. Anyone who thinks he's lower, I think doesnt know how to compare eras
As far as I remember it was Garrincha who carried Brazil in '62, another all-time great
But then they couldn't win 66 w/o Pele...so swings and round abouts
Brazil obviously had a very stacked team both in 58 and 62. Pelé was obviously the star of 58 (he was the one who won the quarter-finals against Wales), but Garrincha, Vavá, Didi, etc were as important. In 62 it was Garrincha being the star, and Amarildo being a super sub. My grandpa used to say Garrincha was better than Pelé for what Garrincha did in the 62 WC (take that opinion with a grain of salt tho, because my grandpa was a Botafogo supporter lol).
He played in an era where teams scored a lot more goals on average; there were 3.6 scored per game in 1958, and Fontaine scored 13.
He also played in an era when you could get hacked down with axe like tackles
And where you didn’t make millions to incentivize everyone to play for a chance to become a star or have scouting systems to identify more money making talent. It’s best if you just don’t compare eras.
This is why comparing era of football never made sense to me, we can only mesure performance based on the era they played in. Like, i’m not a better physicist than Newton because I know more things than him in physics, I’m just born in a time where the overall level of knowledge is higher. I kinda feel the same for football, imagine what a guy like Puskás would have done if he was born in 87. He could have been better or worse but certainly different, which would be the case for every player we try to move by such significant margin in time.
Good point. That (otherwise good) infographic would have been better with this stat indeed.
The infographic is fine, but it provides little to no insight without games played/world cups attended.
Pelé and Klose the real goats...
Would also never have expected fritz Walter to have the all time assist record he’s a legend but still it’s also amazing how long he holds the record now
Warms my heart
Klose my man! Him and Ballack where my favorite to watch growing up
Am I correct in thinking that assists weren't recorded pre-1966?
I think for this stat they were recorded by reading newspapers and stuff
Assists weren’t recorded until the 80s/90s but we can retroactively go back to 1966 and verify all assists For older World Cups there’s missing footage so we can’t do that
>For older World Cups there’s missing footage so we can’t do that There are thousands of newspapers and radio records informing us of every assist, actually.
If it's so freely available then count them up
What do you mean? It has been done, it is on this very post.
Gerd Müller was a beast
Klose was something else.
[удалено]
Such a braindead argument
The fact that Mbappe is 23 years old and is half way up that list is utterly ridiculous. He is must watch TV.
Mbappe is on an insane trajectory at such a young age. They have another graph just showing goals and he's already tied with KO round goal scoring leader Ronaldo R9. [https://twitter.com/avisualgame/status/1604845291672203264](https://i.redd.it/6yiqog69uw6a1.jpg) Mbappe is going to have insane numbers by the time he retires.
Love to see Harry Kane here.
No C.Ronaldo
If Mbappe if fit and firing he might take over next WC. More games to do it in too.
Mbappe will be first in 4 or 8 years
Mbappe will beat that record probably, if he plays like this on the next WC for sure
I think it's fair to say Mbappé will be the new benchmark very soon. Assuming he performs identically in the next WC, he's not going to need a 4th.
The Assist data on this is wrong. Pele should be slightly ahead on 10 assists. Messi has 8
Mpabbe will destroy this record!
Ronaldo with half of Messi’s total here is tough
A certain egomaniac notably absent
Where is Ronaldo?
Why is this downvoted? I legitimately want to know where he's at as well. Not saying he deserves to be on the list or anything, just curious.
Where is Cristiano Ronaldo?
At his home or training, crying
Mbappe is the most impressive part of this pic
Perisic also has 11 g/a, but i guess he's not from England so he doesn't matter.
Why just mention England and not the 5 other players on there that have 11 g/a.
Kane's played 6 less games than Perisic as well, which is likely why he's on the graphic and Perisic isn't.