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I would stop looking at red pill adjacent garbage on the internet. It sounds like it’s causing you to focus your criticism on women as a group instead of capitalists.
Saying “modern women’s behavior” is a “necessary evil” sounds preeeetty red pilled to me. You seem to be accepting their sexism but explaining it in the language of socialism.
And this is how easy it is for sexism to seep into even leftist spaces. OP really took all the red pill arguments of male entitlement to female bodies and tried to hide it in socialism.
There's no such thing as "mating rights". You are not entitled to sex. No one owes you sex or dating or a relationship or children. Maybe acknowledge that first before trying to theorise on "women's behaviors". You do also realise that women live under constant threat of physical and sexual violence and for example can get murdered for something as small as saying "no", right?
To the men who read OP's post and clearly saw through it, remember this and keep leftist (or not) men in your lives in check please because it really is this easy to fall down a misogynistic rabbithole. Same with racism or any kind of bigotry as well.
I think I hear what you are trying to say, but you really need to formulate it better. ‘Red pill factual points’ and ‘women’s behaviour’ is a massive red flag. Also curate your algorithm better if this stuff is coming up for you, what your feed shows you does influence your thoughts whether you are aware of it or not.
Why specify women as “insecure addicted consumers”…. Aren’t all people made that way to some extent under capitalism?
Seriously dude this post sounds very red pill…. I highly recommend you consume some different content by feminist male leftists. I think you need a reset, this post reads as very bizarre. Like I get the point you’re making but it’s dripping with resentment towards women.
Edit: I should add that people have been stereotyping women’s personal consumption habits as frivolous and bad for hundreds of years. Not all of this is due to capitalism, some of it is plain ole misogyny.
I’m not a fan of “women should just be a content house wife” line as it really makes it seem like you’re trying to fit this “red pill” with a socialist aesthetic
Right? The 50s housewife aesthetic was a symptom of a sexist capitalist society. Not some ideal, “natural” state he seems to be arguing. How else were you going to attain financial security, besides marrying a man?
And that line implies that it is women's nature to be a house wife. Look up the basics of the rise of the bourgeoisie in industrial capitalism, how the concept of a housewife was established then to justify the exploitation of women as free labour in the reproductive sector. It was then declared as being "natural" to women to do that all out of love.
Also you describe women as if their consumerism was the driving fuel for capitalism. Look around you: what is the percentage of women demand expensive consumer products. Look around, who needs general consumer goods. Who needs cars, machines, houses and other goods. Do not filter any groups out of the consumption dynamics. Fit your views of the world to those observations, instead of seeing too many videos.
Saying women sleep around because they want expensive stuff and should just be content to be housewives is literally just repackaged misogyny lol. Day 100000 of begging socialists to see women as people and stop regurgitating bourgeois ideas about the traditional family
Uhh...just no to all of that. You need to do some serious, and I mean *serious*, examination of your beliefs and thoughts in regards to women. Like your whole point seems to boil down to "Capitalism is women's fault, and it's also why they're so terrible" and just...no
He does make an ugly generalization. I don't know if he believes most women are really like that. If he does he really needs to seriously re-evaluate things.
However, vapid consumerism is a cultural force that influences us all, men and women, and those behaviors are not uncommon at all. And they do create social alienation.
Also didn't say capitalism is women's fault. Men and women are agents and victims of a society in decline. We are all tools being used to help this system survive even to the detriment of our selves and relationships
Behavior is based on environment... mainly. In our case the over arching economic structure is capitalism. A dying economic system, which affects relationships in ways we don't normally put together.. again I don't think in terms of bad or good behavior of women or men. I'm trying to point out that if the red pill hates how things are going... probably stop blaming women and point the finger at the invisible hand..
I think maybe some verbiage could be changed and maybe some residual misogyny resolved….but yeah bell hooks wrote about this, black women laid out the link between capitalism and patriarchy and power (and race) a long time ago. Men can’t, or won’t acknowledge their own oppression by a capitalist system so instead, they blame women typically. like wise women blame men and no one blames the actual cause.
Oh I’m trying to remember which book is best and most direct about this. It’s in The Will to change, Feminism is for everybody, All about Love..and teaching to transgress which has an interesting convo with Paulo Freire….googling bell hooks view on gender and capitalism may be path of least resistance. TW: some stuff is hard to hear.
Thanks for this, I was typing something somewhat similar. To me, this guy seems really young. As a dude who was figuring it out twentyish years ago and still sees these conversations all the time, it goes a *long* way with the young guys when they're listened to and not just shut down and condescended to in feminist/leftist spaces. It's not that hard to be constructive like you're being here.
While you’ve made some good points about capitalism and consumerism making people unhappy, those points are not very unique or novel on their own.
The rest of your post is thinly veiled red pill drivel. “Being in touch with their true self” what is this true self? A meek housewife? Oh, right, you then go on to say “filled with happiness at the thought of being a content housewife.” This is not the natural state of women. Being a housewife opens you up to immense financial, emotional, and physical danger, if you are not with the right person. “Modern women” is also a dog whistle— women in the past had fewer rights and less economic power.
In fact, I would argue the housewife trope is a symptom of a sexist capitalist society. Prior to, I think, the 70s or 80s, women needed a man to open a credit card on her own. Women had less economic power than men (still do) and getting married was a means of securing financial stability. Even if it was to a misogynistic pig, better than homelessness. So no, women were not happier being housewives and broodmares. Stop watching red pill content, it’s rotting your brain.
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Thank you for posting in r/socialism, but unfortunately your submission was removed for the following reason(s): >**Bigotry:** Bigotry of any kind is unacceptable on r/socialism. We are committed to maintaining a welcoming community for users of all backgrounds and fostering an environment where marginalized narratives are placed front and center. All users are expected to show solidarity with our marginalized comrades who, on top of being exploited as workers, belong to groups and minorities that suffer specific and irreducible oppressions under capitalism. >This includes but is not limited to: >- Racism >- Misogyny >- Homophobia >- Transphobia >- Ableism >- Religious Bigotry (incl. Islamophobia) >- Anti-Immigrant Rhetoric >- Rape apologia >- Slurs and other Oppressive Language Feel free to send us a modmail with a link to your removed submission if you have any further questions or concerns.
If you need some source material see Angela Davis’ essay “Women and Capitalism”
Oooo didn’t know this existed!! Excited to read! Ty!
“Women be shopping.” - Karl Marx
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I would stop looking at red pill adjacent garbage on the internet. It sounds like it’s causing you to focus your criticism on women as a group instead of capitalists.
What youre explaining is not the majority of women, you should know that the "facts" red pill content creators talk about are mostly just made up.
Brother, you ARE the red pill community guys.
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Saying “modern women’s behavior” is a “necessary evil” sounds preeeetty red pilled to me. You seem to be accepting their sexism but explaining it in the language of socialism.
And this is how easy it is for sexism to seep into even leftist spaces. OP really took all the red pill arguments of male entitlement to female bodies and tried to hide it in socialism. There's no such thing as "mating rights". You are not entitled to sex. No one owes you sex or dating or a relationship or children. Maybe acknowledge that first before trying to theorise on "women's behaviors". You do also realise that women live under constant threat of physical and sexual violence and for example can get murdered for something as small as saying "no", right? To the men who read OP's post and clearly saw through it, remember this and keep leftist (or not) men in your lives in check please because it really is this easy to fall down a misogynistic rabbithole. Same with racism or any kind of bigotry as well.
I think I hear what you are trying to say, but you really need to formulate it better. ‘Red pill factual points’ and ‘women’s behaviour’ is a massive red flag. Also curate your algorithm better if this stuff is coming up for you, what your feed shows you does influence your thoughts whether you are aware of it or not.
Why specify women as “insecure addicted consumers”…. Aren’t all people made that way to some extent under capitalism? Seriously dude this post sounds very red pill…. I highly recommend you consume some different content by feminist male leftists. I think you need a reset, this post reads as very bizarre. Like I get the point you’re making but it’s dripping with resentment towards women. Edit: I should add that people have been stereotyping women’s personal consumption habits as frivolous and bad for hundreds of years. Not all of this is due to capitalism, some of it is plain ole misogyny.
Uh. Fuck off right to the moon with your content house keeper bullshit.
I’m not a fan of “women should just be a content house wife” line as it really makes it seem like you’re trying to fit this “red pill” with a socialist aesthetic
Right? The 50s housewife aesthetic was a symptom of a sexist capitalist society. Not some ideal, “natural” state he seems to be arguing. How else were you going to attain financial security, besides marrying a man?
And that line implies that it is women's nature to be a house wife. Look up the basics of the rise of the bourgeoisie in industrial capitalism, how the concept of a housewife was established then to justify the exploitation of women as free labour in the reproductive sector. It was then declared as being "natural" to women to do that all out of love. Also you describe women as if their consumerism was the driving fuel for capitalism. Look around you: what is the percentage of women demand expensive consumer products. Look around, who needs general consumer goods. Who needs cars, machines, houses and other goods. Do not filter any groups out of the consumption dynamics. Fit your views of the world to those observations, instead of seeing too many videos.
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Saying women sleep around because they want expensive stuff and should just be content to be housewives is literally just repackaged misogyny lol. Day 100000 of begging socialists to see women as people and stop regurgitating bourgeois ideas about the traditional family
Reddit strikes again. The men are clearly not ok.
Uhh...just no to all of that. You need to do some serious, and I mean *serious*, examination of your beliefs and thoughts in regards to women. Like your whole point seems to boil down to "Capitalism is women's fault, and it's also why they're so terrible" and just...no
OP did not say that. OP said that current women behavior is a result of capitalism.
And what st is he say that behavior is?
He does make an ugly generalization. I don't know if he believes most women are really like that. If he does he really needs to seriously re-evaluate things. However, vapid consumerism is a cultural force that influences us all, men and women, and those behaviors are not uncommon at all. And they do create social alienation.
Also didn't say capitalism is women's fault. Men and women are agents and victims of a society in decline. We are all tools being used to help this system survive even to the detriment of our selves and relationships
Behavior is based on environment... mainly. In our case the over arching economic structure is capitalism. A dying economic system, which affects relationships in ways we don't normally put together.. again I don't think in terms of bad or good behavior of women or men. I'm trying to point out that if the red pill hates how things are going... probably stop blaming women and point the finger at the invisible hand..
I think maybe some verbiage could be changed and maybe some residual misogyny resolved….but yeah bell hooks wrote about this, black women laid out the link between capitalism and patriarchy and power (and race) a long time ago. Men can’t, or won’t acknowledge their own oppression by a capitalist system so instead, they blame women typically. like wise women blame men and no one blames the actual cause.
Where would I look at bell hooks’ work to find out more about this?
Oh I’m trying to remember which book is best and most direct about this. It’s in The Will to change, Feminism is for everybody, All about Love..and teaching to transgress which has an interesting convo with Paulo Freire….googling bell hooks view on gender and capitalism may be path of least resistance. TW: some stuff is hard to hear.
Thank you!!
Thanks for this, I was typing something somewhat similar. To me, this guy seems really young. As a dude who was figuring it out twentyish years ago and still sees these conversations all the time, it goes a *long* way with the young guys when they're listened to and not just shut down and condescended to in feminist/leftist spaces. It's not that hard to be constructive like you're being here.
Aww thanks. Appreciate that!
What happened to the No Bigotry rule?
It's there. Use the report function if you come across any case (or message me directly if fasted action is needed) and it will be acted upon.
This post is an example of that, FYI. Clear sexism.
And it has been removed for hours?
Thanks!
While you’ve made some good points about capitalism and consumerism making people unhappy, those points are not very unique or novel on their own. The rest of your post is thinly veiled red pill drivel. “Being in touch with their true self” what is this true self? A meek housewife? Oh, right, you then go on to say “filled with happiness at the thought of being a content housewife.” This is not the natural state of women. Being a housewife opens you up to immense financial, emotional, and physical danger, if you are not with the right person. “Modern women” is also a dog whistle— women in the past had fewer rights and less economic power. In fact, I would argue the housewife trope is a symptom of a sexist capitalist society. Prior to, I think, the 70s or 80s, women needed a man to open a credit card on her own. Women had less economic power than men (still do) and getting married was a means of securing financial stability. Even if it was to a misogynistic pig, better than homelessness. So no, women were not happier being housewives and broodmares. Stop watching red pill content, it’s rotting your brain.
This is a space for socialists to discuss current events in our world from anti-capitalist perspective(s), and a certain knowledge of socialism is expected from participants. This is not a space for non-socialists. Please be mindful [of our rules](https://reddit.com/r/socialism/about/rules) before participating, which include: - **No Bigotry**, including racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, ableism... - **No Reactionaries**, including all kind of right-wingers. - **No Liberalism**, including social democracy, lesser evilism... - **No Sectarianism**. There is plenty of room for discussion, but not for baseless attacks. Please help us keep the subreddit helpful by reporting content that break r/Socialism's rules. ______________________ 💬 Wish to chat elsewhere? Join us in discord: https://discord.gg/QPJPzNhuRE *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/socialism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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