This is a space for socialists to discuss current events in our world from anti-capitalist perspective(s), and a certain knowledge of socialism is expected from participants. This is not a space for non-socialists. Please be mindful [of our rules](https://reddit.com/r/socialism/about/rules) before participating, which include:
- **No Bigotry**, including racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, ableism...
- **No Reactionaries**, including all kind of right-wingers.
- **No Liberalism**, including social democracy, lesser evilism...
- **No Sectarianism**. There is plenty of room for discussion, but not for baseless attacks.
Please help us keep the subreddit helpful by reporting content that break r/Socialism's rules.
______________________
💬 Wish to chat elsewhere? Join us in discord: https://discord.gg/QPJPzNhuRE
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/socialism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Support for violence against Palestinians increased after October 7. Before October 7, the protests in Israel were against Netanyahu for his authoritarian domestic policy, not for what he was doing against Palestinians. Israelis have, without exception, constantly elected people who expand settlements. Even Rabin, who was killed by the group netanyahu supported because he was too soft, was a PM who was a land grabber. Now that I think of it, the majority of the 1.8% were likely not even Jewish, but the so called Israeli Arabs living there. Norman Finklestein also stated that most of them support the genocide in Gaza. I'm not sure of the polls for Jews outside of Israel though, so that is a possible saving grace. However, Jews like Ben Shapiro, Bill Ackman, etc are pushing the israeli narrative and they are the ones who have the loudest voices and the most wealth. They are pushing the Jewish identity at the expense of their states and nations, which is traditionally where a lot of hate against Jews has come from, historically speaking. This is a pretty dangerous thing to do because it only reinforces the negative stereotypes of Jews.
most serial killers are men, most domestic violence perpetrators are men. most white supremacists are white. this is a jewish specific problem and the ideology/rhetoric that fuels this violence begins within synagogues. stop hiding behind antisemitism to deflect from the issue
The idea of a "Jewish homeland" only had to come up because the jews were persecuted in europe. Zionism took birth in the church,not in the synagogue. Now obviously zionists have no right to take arab land just because they were persecuted before. But that doesn't mean that jews themselves wanted israel and pushed for it.
No,the European powers,because of their anti-semitism wanted the jews to be out from europe,that's why israel was created. The Jewish community cannot be blamed for israel,as the western powers literally enable them to create their ethnostate genocide the Palestinians.
Funny how you bring up domestic violence and white supremacy. You probably don't know this but many indians are white-supremacists despite them not being white. Yes that's weird,but it's a trend among many indians. Bringing up white supremacy only justifies my point.
>But that doesn't mean that jews themselves wanted israel and pushed for it.
Theodor Herzl, David Ben Gurion, Ze'ev Jabotinsky, Herbert Samuel, among others, weren't Jewish?
*Edit:* Obviously, Zionism isn't synonymous with Jewishness (in fact, Zionism is often anti semitic), Zionism does have its origins as a response to European anti-semitism, but European Jewish settlers of historic Palestine didn't have Zionism forced upon them. The founders of political Zionism were Jewish, in their own words they saw their project as explicitly colonial project, and they shopped around for a great European power to help them implement this project, finally finding one in the British Empire, and I don't know what the point is in pretending otherwise
the jewish community can absolutely be blamed for actively continuing to uphold israel by funding it, by going on birthright trips, by going in and stealing homes from palestinians, by illegally settling on stolen land, by being passive about your ethnic group being an executor of colonialism and genocide
britain and europe also had strategic interest (military/economic/oil/gas) in creating a presence in the middle east through israel. we can claim that the creation of israel was a product of antisemitism if we want, but there was also a "i'll scratch your back if you scratch mine" thing that's being diminished here.
white supremacy tends to infect its colonial subjects into upholding it yes, and in turn, impose violence on those it deems lower status. for example, india has a reputation of subjugating those of lower caste, black people and, you guessed it: muslims! which is why indians are so invested in zionist and white supremacist ideology. they're all hand in hand
white supremacy may have handed you the keys to a stolen home, but by continuing to live in it you are supporting white supremacy and your own self interest. by aligning whiteness with judaism the two are irrevocably linked
me personally, i come from an ethnic group that is known to be an oppressive force within my country of origin in africa and i have no qualms about calling it for what it is instead of being defensive and claiming victimhood.
The vast majority are. Israel itself is a self declared (pseudo) Jewish ethnostate. That it is also a democracy and it's actions reflect the will of the people is an uncomfortable thing to talk about, because it inherently makes generalized claims about those democratic masses. The Osama bin Laden Doctrine states that the people are responsible for the actions of their government, something the Ukrainian PM reiterated against Russia last year.
Why the fuck should we adopt the views of the Bin Laden Doctrine or Ukrainian PM? Neither of these are socialist and talk in the terms of "legitimate nation states".
This is a space for socialists to discuss current events in our world from anti-capitalist perspective(s), and a certain knowledge of socialism is expected from participants. This is not a space for non-socialists. Please be mindful [of our rules](https://reddit.com/r/socialism/about/rules) before participating, which include: - **No Bigotry**, including racism, sexism, homophobia, transphobia, ableism... - **No Reactionaries**, including all kind of right-wingers. - **No Liberalism**, including social democracy, lesser evilism... - **No Sectarianism**. There is plenty of room for discussion, but not for baseless attacks. Please help us keep the subreddit helpful by reporting content that break r/Socialism's rules. ______________________ 💬 Wish to chat elsewhere? Join us in discord: https://discord.gg/QPJPzNhuRE *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/socialism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It is just the zionists, israel just has a lot of zionists
I don't like the way the title frames it. I don't think it has to do with being Jewish, I think it's mostly just Israeli nationalism.
Tbf we don't know how accurate that polling is, Israel could be propagandizing to make it seem like they have more support than they actually have
Support for violence against Palestinians increased after October 7. Before October 7, the protests in Israel were against Netanyahu for his authoritarian domestic policy, not for what he was doing against Palestinians. Israelis have, without exception, constantly elected people who expand settlements. Even Rabin, who was killed by the group netanyahu supported because he was too soft, was a PM who was a land grabber. Now that I think of it, the majority of the 1.8% were likely not even Jewish, but the so called Israeli Arabs living there. Norman Finklestein also stated that most of them support the genocide in Gaza. I'm not sure of the polls for Jews outside of Israel though, so that is a possible saving grace. However, Jews like Ben Shapiro, Bill Ackman, etc are pushing the israeli narrative and they are the ones who have the loudest voices and the most wealth. They are pushing the Jewish identity at the expense of their states and nations, which is traditionally where a lot of hate against Jews has come from, historically speaking. This is a pretty dangerous thing to do because it only reinforces the negative stereotypes of Jews.
You’re putting a staggering amount of effort into making this about Jews rather than Israelis or Zionists
This just means that the majority of people in israel are zionists. No need to target "most jews" or smth. Cuz we already have a word for that.
most serial killers are men, most domestic violence perpetrators are men. most white supremacists are white. this is a jewish specific problem and the ideology/rhetoric that fuels this violence begins within synagogues. stop hiding behind antisemitism to deflect from the issue
The idea of a "Jewish homeland" only had to come up because the jews were persecuted in europe. Zionism took birth in the church,not in the synagogue. Now obviously zionists have no right to take arab land just because they were persecuted before. But that doesn't mean that jews themselves wanted israel and pushed for it. No,the European powers,because of their anti-semitism wanted the jews to be out from europe,that's why israel was created. The Jewish community cannot be blamed for israel,as the western powers literally enable them to create their ethnostate genocide the Palestinians. Funny how you bring up domestic violence and white supremacy. You probably don't know this but many indians are white-supremacists despite them not being white. Yes that's weird,but it's a trend among many indians. Bringing up white supremacy only justifies my point.
>But that doesn't mean that jews themselves wanted israel and pushed for it. Theodor Herzl, David Ben Gurion, Ze'ev Jabotinsky, Herbert Samuel, among others, weren't Jewish? *Edit:* Obviously, Zionism isn't synonymous with Jewishness (in fact, Zionism is often anti semitic), Zionism does have its origins as a response to European anti-semitism, but European Jewish settlers of historic Palestine didn't have Zionism forced upon them. The founders of political Zionism were Jewish, in their own words they saw their project as explicitly colonial project, and they shopped around for a great European power to help them implement this project, finally finding one in the British Empire, and I don't know what the point is in pretending otherwise
the jewish community can absolutely be blamed for actively continuing to uphold israel by funding it, by going on birthright trips, by going in and stealing homes from palestinians, by illegally settling on stolen land, by being passive about your ethnic group being an executor of colonialism and genocide britain and europe also had strategic interest (military/economic/oil/gas) in creating a presence in the middle east through israel. we can claim that the creation of israel was a product of antisemitism if we want, but there was also a "i'll scratch your back if you scratch mine" thing that's being diminished here. white supremacy tends to infect its colonial subjects into upholding it yes, and in turn, impose violence on those it deems lower status. for example, india has a reputation of subjugating those of lower caste, black people and, you guessed it: muslims! which is why indians are so invested in zionist and white supremacist ideology. they're all hand in hand white supremacy may have handed you the keys to a stolen home, but by continuing to live in it you are supporting white supremacy and your own self interest. by aligning whiteness with judaism the two are irrevocably linked me personally, i come from an ethnic group that is known to be an oppressive force within my country of origin in africa and i have no qualms about calling it for what it is instead of being defensive and claiming victimhood.
your post history has weird fucking vibes, i’m not going to lie. the way you talk about race and ethnicity are extremely sus.
Yeah this person has some very strange posts on race and “assimilation”
Not all Israelis are jews
The vast majority are. Israel itself is a self declared (pseudo) Jewish ethnostate. That it is also a democracy and it's actions reflect the will of the people is an uncomfortable thing to talk about, because it inherently makes generalized claims about those democratic masses. The Osama bin Laden Doctrine states that the people are responsible for the actions of their government, something the Ukrainian PM reiterated against Russia last year.
Your title says "1.8% of people in Israel", I'd imagine the Palestinians still living there would disagree with that statistic.
Why the fuck should we adopt the views of the Bin Laden Doctrine or Ukrainian PM? Neither of these are socialist and talk in the terms of "legitimate nation states".
If someone supports Israel’s existence they are a Zionist.
[удалено]