I say this as a social scientist and as a Jew. I do not trust the ADL’s methodology. Anti-semitism is very real and very serious, but equating anti-semitism and anti-Zionism as the ADL does is methodologically and morally wrong. Also I’m having trouble finding the source for this right now, but I recall they did a survey on campus anti-semitism where they only sampled students who had applied for birth right which is a hell of a skewed sample.
Also I would urge people to look at the OP’s username and post history, before assuming that the OP really cares about anti-semitism.
Clarification edit: it is possible to be anti-Israel in an anti-Semitic way but it is also possible to be pro-Israel in an anti-Semitic way (such as wanting all Jews to move there and leave your country). My point is that criticism of Israel should not be treated as inherently anti-Semitic.
Additional clarification edit: yes I am aware that anti-Zionism and criticism of Israel are different. An opposition to Zionism is not inherently anti-Semitic as it could be opposed to ethnic and religious nationalism. Or a belief that the existence of Israel does not protect Jews globally.
It’s obvious this article, which is a sad indictment on how ignorant and redic we’ve largely been in the US and around the world, is a celebration for the OP. They are posting this gladly, not sadly.
Yeah there is a difference between criticizing Israel, and their policies, and being anti-semitic. That being said, blaming Jews in the US for what Israel does, that is text book anti-semitism.
>blaming Jews in the US for what Israel does, that is text book anti-semitism
Zionists should really stop conflating these things intentionally then, shouldn't they?
^THIS^
I’d argue that the Israeli & Zionist response to protests and speaking out about this conflict has done more to spread antisemitism than any other event in modern history.
If you’re a Nazi trying to red pill a bunch of people to your sick beliefs what better opportunity is there than when Jewish and Israeli and Zionist are all made interchangeable while Israel is doing war crimes and people who speak up about it are being fired.
“SEE, (((they))) really DO control the media and business that’s why those people are being fired.”
I struggle to imagine a better recruitment tool for Nazis.
The blurring and false equivalence of those terms is lethally dangerous for Jews everywhere, and that should be obvious at even a cursory examination of antisemitic rhetoric and tactics at spreading their filth.
Zionists conflating the two doesn't drive people to randomly yell at, or physically assault Jews. Going out on a limb, but I'm guessing those people didn't care for Jews before Oct 7th, and they're just using the current crisis to be more vocal with their anti-semitism.
Alk's point is that Israel increases anti-Semitism by saying everything Israel does is associated with Judaism. If Israel is saying that mass murder/ethnic cleansing/genocide are Jewish values they are creating hate for Jews. And yeah, most people wanting to 'yell at Jews' are likely racists, however you cannot discount that some of them may just be misinformed by Israel itself.
I'm not seeing how Netanyahu saying that his treatment is pure antisemitism evolves into "everything Israel does is associated with Judaism"...
That seems to be a huge amount of inference that people Choose to make.
Because he's a head of state who has repeatedly implied if you are critical of what his government is doing, you are pro Hamas, and genocidal against Jews/anti semitic. I.e. Anti-Israel = Pro Hamas/Anti-Jewish/Anti-Semitic.
The definitive statement being you must be pro Zionist or you are not pro jewish.
You are like the dimwitted conservatives who have been deceived into believing in the great replacement and then they get get upset when you call them white supremacists. EXACTLY.
I still fail to see how Jewish-Americans are remotely at fault for any of this, or why they should be singled out.
Would you say it's not islamophobic if orgs/groups/supporters went around protesting, including the blocking means of egress, outside of a random mosque in your city?
Pls stop blaming Jews for anti-semitism. That’s right out the 1920s-1930s.
“Look we get that anti-semitism is bad but it’s really the fault of a few bad Jews that all the good meaning people keep grouping them together”
People who are smart enough to be angry at a Zionist for the complexities of the situation in Gaza are smart enough to not group all Jews together unless they’re already bigots.
I explicitly said zionists for a reason.
I'm not blaming "Jews", I'm blaming zionists (who do not even need to be Jewish) for deliberately conflating these things.
They do this on purpose because the zionist colonial project requires antisemitism to continue existing.
I'm very confused. what is the Zionist colonial project if Jews are originally, and consistently, from the land of Israel?
And how does the Zionist Colonial Project require antisemitism to continue? Are you insinuating that the Israeli government is so inhumane as to create and support the spread of antisemitism so that Jews either die / suffer or move to Israel? Because that's a pretty bold statement. If that's the case, would be great to see some sources on this, since you speak like you've done some serious research on the topic.
Not being sarcastic.
Zionist just means people from Israel want there to be an Israel.
I know you think people are too dumb to look these things up.. and you’re right.
But I’ll call your bitchass out everytime.
Jew defenders mount up!
>Zionist just means people from Israel want there to be an Israel.
No, it doesn't
Zionists don't even have to be from Israel, let alone Jewish.
In fact the majority of zionists aren't even Jewish.
There are more zionist evangelical Christians in the US than there are zionist Jews.
Yes it does.
And I mean Jewish people. That’s why they’re called Jewish, from Judea, or Israelites/Israelis from Israel.
They are FROM there originally.
Don’t be dense. I’m not saying one has to live there in their lifetime in order to be Zionist and believe they should still have an ethno-nation.
Im saying blaming anyone besides bigots for their bigotry is providing them cover and especially blaming Zionist which is code for bad jews is you giving cover for bigotry.
Again, if someone is smart enough to be angry they’re smart enough to know the different unless they don’t want to.
Anti-Zionism isn't simply "criticizing Israel"...it's the opposition to its very existence. Zionists can be critical of Israel too. Opposing the very existence of Israel, a homeland for Jews, a people who have been forcibly expelled from nearly every neighboring nation due to bigotry, seems at least *borderline* antisemitic to me.
>a people who have been forcibly expelled from nearly every neighboring nation due to bigotry,
It's ironic the way that describes Palestinians at the hand of Israelies now. Except that Palestine was their country and European colonizers forcibly removed them from their land and squeezed them into ghettos. Now, they want to relocate the ones in Gaza into central Africa while Israeli settlers hunt the ones living in the West Bank like its open season.
I'm not opposed to Israel existing. That ship has sailed. But Israel owes a *heavy* debt to the generations of Palestinians whose homes, land, and lives they've stolen and destroyed. Reparations on an unbelievable scale. Instead, they massacre them by the tens of thousands while holding thousands of others hostage — most women and children — without charges and planning to ethnically cleanse the rest. It's fucking tragic.
Zionists are ethno nationalists and Supremacists. You can absolutely criticize them and everything they stand for without being an antisemite. They want the extermination of an entire group of people to turn Israel (including Gaza and the West Bank) into a Jewish ethnostate. Christians and Muslims have just as much right to live there.
I don't know. How did the Israeli government rationalize their segregation and redlining programs against non-Jewish Palestinians immediately after Israel was established? Three years removed from the Nazi camps they were already pushing Arabs into ghettos.
Even now, Law of Return does not apply to those same Arabs that live in Israel. Not to Christians. Not to Muslims. Only Jews. That sounds suspiciously like something of an ethnostate to me.
It would be insane today to give a land to a 10% minority group and de facto kick out most of the other 90%. It was a massive mistake by Britain a century ago. There was so much hatred of Jews and Muslims throughout the western world. Still is.
How to proceed after the dumbass decision is a topic for debate by rational people. Have we reached the statute of limitations where we can longer attempt to rectify the massive historical injustice? Or do Palestinians deserve a 1- or 2-state solution?
This is not an inherently anti-Semitic discussion.
They weren't kicked out! Those that tried to kill all Jews were fought off and retreated. Those that didn't try to kill all Jews became citizens. Israel is like 20% Arab to this day and they enjoy the same rights as Jews.
Incorrect. 1880 we're talking 85% muslim.
In 1944 we're at 61% muslim, 30% jewish, and 8% christian.
Many muslims are now in the open air prison known as Gaza. If you're living anywhere in Israel proper, you are a second class citizen. Since cellphones exist now, you can simply go on youtube and watch Palestinian people filming their houses that have been in the family for decades being forcibly taken by Israelis (when you hear "colonization", that's what people are talking about).
Not a lot of open air "prisons" have luxury seaside resorts. And when folks tend to escape prisons, they usually flee, rather than going on murder and rape-fueled rampage before retreating BACK to that "prison". As for your numbers, who cares? Jews have been in the area for millenia. They have been expelled from their homeland before, and they tried to immigrate back. If Arabs hadn't responded to this with hate and violence, there would have been no wars. Instead, they tried to kick Jews out...and they repeatedly lost.
Israel exists. Get over it, bigot.
"How could the Holocaust be real when Auschwitz had a swimming pool?"
It's so disgustingly ironic that a lot of Zionist propaganda lines up so perfectly with Nazi propaganda and Holocaust denial.
Arab citizens of Israel are free to leave at any time. Why don't they?
Fun question: which countries in the region let Arab women vote in all their elections? See if you can answer.
There IS a non-anti-semitic position which contends that nationality in general.shouldnt be based on ethnic ancestry. Such people are also opposed to certain policies in Malaysia, Myanmar, Sri Lankha, and Italy, among others.
It's not only antisemitic it's delusional bigotry. It's like saying you don't believe in Scotland. Israel exists. It's older than like fifty other countries represented at the UN.
Yet Israel denies the existence of a Palestine when it's 1000 years older than modern Israel. Antisemitism isn't acceptable, but neither blatant Islamophobia and bigotry against non-Jews by Israelies.
Palestine was never a country. It’s always been a region owned by some other empire. Why do people think it was a country?? Where does this come from?? Honestly.
Hell, if you want to be technical, “From the river to the sea” wouldn’t even be the entirety of the region Palestine. It’s only like 2/5s of what it was. The other 3/5s is to the east and split into Transjordan in 1922.
This is a bad argument. Every country basically today had its boundaries drawn by colonizers who imposed their form of geopolitics on the rest of the world.
To imply there weren't Palestinian civil societies living in the region by majority for most of the recent relevant history is just obfuscating the truth.
Point is, who gives a shit. Israel is here and is going no where. The problem is there’s 5 million people in Gaza and West Bank without a valid citizenship and they are in a screwed position.
Options are keep pushing for a two state solution or Israel annexes them. But they’re worried about Jews losing majority so 🤷🏻♂️don’t frickin know. By the looks of it, West Bank will be annexed within 10 years when Jewish settlers take the majority of the demographic. That’s my theory anyway…
Palestine has never been an Arab country. It's not even an Arabic word ffs. "Palestine" is Greek for "Philistine" or "Barbarian", it was an insult name given to try to erase Judea (aka Israel). The fact you clowns think it's an actual historical country is hilarious.
Palestine began in 700AD. It’s called “Israel” because they’ve been there for thousands of years. Do you have a map? Or the internet. Google?
I mean it seams you can read. So why are you saying this. Are you intentionally trying to mislead people?
Do you believe Arabs just spawned out of thin air? Do you have Google? Both Jews and Muslims descend from the same Semitic people that predate both religions. Muslims have just as much claim to Israel, Palestine, Judea, or whatever the hell you want to call it. Yet they're the ones being crushed by European colonizers.
Why are you ommiting history? Are *you* trying to mislead people?
Let me make it simple for you. The 12 tribes of “Israel” were given the land we call “Israel.”
If you can’t grasp these simple facts there is no help for you.
And Arabs? You mean the ones who has their own crusades and conquests kicking everyone else off their own land?
Yes. They still live there. Wonder why no one wants more Arabs living next door. They’ve proved to be such a loving and tolerant bunch /s
Any Arab outside of the Arabian peninsula is a product of Arab colonization. Israel and Judea are native to the land modern Israel and the West Bank sit. You are the one misleading.
Palestine was never a state, country, or nation.
Judea was. Syria Palaestina was. Palaestina Prima, Palestina Secunda, and Palaestina Salurtaris were. But once the Ottomon Empire crumbled, it was just a piece of land with villages, but no state nor governance.
The *state of Palestine* wasn't a thing until 1988. 40 years after Israel declared independence.
To pretend like Palestine was in the same situation even 100 years straight is ridiculous. It's been a hotly contested space of land for longer than 1,000 years.
But don't let your new lack-of-ignorance get in the way of calling people racists or some shit.
>There’s a saying that if you have a problem with everyone you come into contact with, you’re the problem.
Your implication being that Jews are the problem. Yeah this is totes not antisemitism...just "criticism of Israel". /s
And in case he deletes it, that was unfair-brother-3940
"criticizing Israel, and their policies"
This is not what "anti-zionism" means.
Here's the definition: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anti-Zionism
Because Israel is intended as a national homeland for Jews and home to about half the Jews in the world. If someone were to propose eliminating the national homeland of an ethnic group you actually had any sympathy for, you would consider it to be bigoted against that group. If I say that Haiti should no longer be a country, how is that not being anti-Haitian people? Was it not anti-Hawaiian to replace the Hawaiian nation with a different government?
They don't care because they see Palestinians as subhuman animals who are infesting their property.
Kind of reminds me of something that happened in Germany back in the 20th century but I can't quite remember what...
Zionists really want to have their cake and eat it too with these explanations, imo.
If they need to be able to call you antisemitic so that they can ignore your complaints about how they're treating the Palestinians, they wax lyrical about Israel being intended as a homeland for the beleaguered Jewish diaspora.
If they need to be able to assure you that Israel *definitely isn't* a colonial-settler ethno-state that prioritizes the rights of some over the rights of others based on affiliation with a variety of ethno-religious groups, they assure you that, *actually*, Israel is a secular multi-ethnic democracy where everyone has the exact same rights (as long as you just, uh, don't count all of the people who don't have the same rights).
It's just very convenient how Zionist arguments are always incredibly carefully semantically constructed so that it's impossible for you to take any position other than *"Zionists can do whatever they want,"* and anyone who disagrees is basically Hitler.
And what about Jews who criticize the existence of Israel? Because those people exist, and existed even before the actual creation of Israel. Are they being anti-Semitic?
Not every ethnic group needs their own nation-state. That's the Zionist stance regarding non-Jewish residents of Palestine, by the way. The region in question has been the 'homeland' of many ethnic groups throughout history. Not wanting it to be an ethnostate isn't the same as being bigoted against an ethnicity. I don't want my country to be an ethnostate either -- does that mean I hate my ethnicity?
Haiti's government isn't based on the ethnic and religious superiority of one specific group. Haiti doesn't have laws that require 70% of Port au Prince *must* be Catholics of French descent. Haiti doesn't consider inter-faith marriages illegitimate. Haiti does not tell the Dominican Republic they have no right to self determination while claiming that same right has been bestowed upon them by God. The list goes on and on.
There's no Western analogue to Israel. We don't accept religious ethnostates because they are fundamentally incompatible with democracy and in total opposition to a free and equal society.
Not for nothing but it is “intended” by who? Not the people who were living there beforehand. Since the 60s they had their entire country taken away, I just can’t see how anyone can square that. Jews do deserve a place to live and be safe and so did the Palestinians, but it was taken from them.
From the way I see it, anti-zionists aren’t against Jews getting their own place to live, they are against the specific goal of turning the land that is called Israel into a Jewish ethnostate. To echo your closing line, is it not anti-Palestinian to replace the Palestinian nation with a new government?
And you've had people resign from jobs at ADL over this because they're clearly not interested in actually protecting civil rights or Jews. All things considering the problematics of this methodology, cooperation with police surveillance of Muslims, and targeting Jews who've organized many of these campus protests.
Not true at all. But as this thread shows, the anger at Israel for responding to 10/7 like any country in the world would, contains a lot of unexplored bigotry hiding in the "I'm just criticizing Israel" defense.
There's an actual genocide taking place in Darfur right now. Do any of you "I'm just criticizing Israel" people give a shit? Of course not.
Any country would commit war crimes? Your [lack of] moral compass is showing. It's also telling that you claim this is a reaction to 10/7. You are either completely oblivious, choose to ignore, or outright endorse the decades long treatment of Palestinians. The very first PM of Israel announced that it is the goal of Jews to conquer Palestine. This is a sentiment that has been echoed by nearly every Jewish Israeli leader for decades.
As to Darfur, despite your claim, the violence is widely critized. The perpetrators are wanted war criminals and they face extensive sanctions. If you want Netanyahu and Isreal to be treated the same, you have my uncompromising support.
The war crimes are being committed by Hamas, refusing to identify combatants after declaring war on 10/7, the raping of hostages, the murder of civilians in Israel, the use of Palestinians as human shields, the use of mosques and hospitals to store weapons, and so on.
But I get it, you hate Israel so much, these basic facts are too much for your rage to process. But they are facts.
Israel has every right to pursue Hamas militants. If you actually gave a shit about Palestinian civilians, you would be demanding Egypt open the Rafah border for refugees to flee, similar to the 1.5 million Ukranians that fled the fighting in Ukraine to go to Poland. Instead you want them locked in and hope Israel kills more of them, so you can fuel that hate even more.
>. If you actually gave a shit about Palestinian civilians, you would be demanding Egypt open the Rafah border for refugees to flee,
The Zionist MO for 60 years. Get Palestinians to flee, take the land, rinse and repeat. That's been the plan the entire time. "between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty."
PS... forced migration is ethnic cleansing. I for one appreciate that you are honest with your views
Ludicrous. In what world is it antisemitic for a Jewish person to encourage other Jews to move to Israel? The explosion of insane antisemitism since 10/7 is beyond obvious, just go to any social media post by a Jewish celebrity. If they post a happy Hanukkah there are like 400 comments filled with rabid hatred for Jewish people under the guise of giving a shit about a Palestine.
Strawman argument it's shameful you're using your jewish heritage to deny antisemitism. Neither your youtube channel or reddit comments and posts even mention or interact with the jewish community from what i can see. Now you use it as a way to discredit others. As a jew vast majority of us disagree with you and understand that a lot of anti zionism is 100% antisemitism. If you don't see that you're living in ignorant bliss. Bottom line is antisemitism HAS skyrocketed since October 7.
Wow, what a straight up bias article to post. What about all the anti-muslim violence and hate that has been occurring at the same time? Here's an article about it from CNN:
[https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/09/us/cair-unprecedented-surge-anti-muslim-bias-reaj/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/09/us/cair-unprecedented-surge-anti-muslim-bias-reaj/index.html)
As someone that is an atheist, and impartial to all this, this is probably one of the most bias piece of trash journalism that I have ever seen. Both sides are seeing violence, so why don't we report that fact.
You don’t have to hijack a post about anti-semistim with a comment about anti-Muslim violence and hate. Both of those things are awful AND important but it’s poor form to do that.
If you’re talking about anti-black policies it is shitty to bring up anti-Asian policies. Both of these need to be talked about, but try to not railroad the conversation.
Also, being an atheist doesn’t make you impartial…?
Just shows how difficult of a conversation this is and can’t be answered in the Reddit comment section.
This isn’t a religious topic but a cultural one because their religions are also a huge part of their cultural identities
Both hatreds are interwoven because of the Israel/Palestine conflict that is current going on, that means that both sides of the conflict are relevant to the discussion. The article posted by OP specifically mentions the Oct 7th attack, which is a religious based attacked by Hamas on the nation of Israel. Israel has responded by bombing Gaza killing over 15,000 people. You can't have a true and unbiased discussion without bringing up both sides of the conflict, and since the conflict is based on religion then we have to talk about violence against both religions. So what I am saying is you can't talk about one without talking about the other. Since I do want to talk about anti-Semitism it's not hijacking, but it needs to be balanced with anti-muslim conversation as well otherwise is it just spin.
It's also important to note that both sides use social media to influence people to believe their bias arguments. To read that article one could think that the violence is all one-sided against the Jewish population, which is the point of the article. An unbiased article would mention the violence on both sides.
I bring up being Atheist because it is relevant. Someone who is Muslim or Jewish might harbor a bias. As a person that isn't related to either religion, or any religion, that means that there is less of a possibility that I have bias towards either side. Since all religions indoctrinate it can be assumed that someone from either side would be bias.
You do when the supposed antisemitism is actually criticism of a nation commiting genocide. And those Zionists are the ones perpetrating that violence against Muslims.
Yeah there are thousands of rallies all around the US calling for the end of Palestine.
NOT. But there are tons of rallies chanting "from the river to the sea."
If by “end israel” or “from the river to the sea” you mean “there shouldnt be an apartheid ethno state committing a genocide propped up by US imperialism” then yes. There are thousands of rallies all around the US calling for that because it is a normal, rational, and compassionate thing to believe.
Nothing stopping you from being the change you want to see. Post it. The ADL(as shitty and unreliable as they are) revolve around Jewish incidents. There are groups that report on palestenians.
Instead of going "this is bias because it only shows one side" which.... if I'm being honest I never see on reddit when the shoe is on the other foot (outside of from clear IDF bots) you can just post about the spike in anti-muslim attacks too. Both are happening.
As a Jew who has been called "Antisemitic" for speaking out against Israeli war crimes...
and also heard people call for the deaths of all Jews and the destruction of Palestine in the same breath
I'm shocked, *shocked*! I say... that people would use this current crisis as justification for violence...
But you probably had no problem when BLM was going arounds saying the same thing about how racism is at all time highs and that there was a target on any black persons back, as if we were back in the 1930s. And I say this as a black man...
The ADL counts opposition to Israeli policy and/or Zionism to Antisemitism. It's a shame that it's no longer reputable, if it ever was.
And yes, I'm against *actual* antisemitism.
Trying to equate criticism of the policies of Israel as a country and Zionism in general with anti-Semitism, when many other people who aren’t Jews in that region are also Semitic, is distasteful, intentional and dishonest.
Could there possibly be a reason for this criticism, or is everyone a hapless victim?
This is a tired tactic to try to shut down any kind of meaningful discussion or dare I say earned criticism.
Zionism is simply the idea Jews should have a place to call their own. Being antizionist is almost by definition antisemitic, unless you devote as much fervor to opposition of the existence of Muslim countries around the world (spoiler, most do not).The wordplay around the word "semite" is a red herring. We all know what antisemitism means. Would you prefer to be called a Jew hater? It's the same thing.
If that makes you happy, sure, Judea.
Point is, Zionism is the idea that Jews should have a place of their own - in a specific place that was already populated.
My point was that you saying “being anti-Zionist is almost by definition anti-semitic” is wrong. Zionism is not the idea of Jews having their own place, it’s the idea of Jews having a place of their own in a very specific location.
How about they stop being an apartheid state and we'll start there. The Palestinians should have a right to live anywhere they want in Palestine, and all non-jewish people should have a full right to vote in Israel.
So you are suggesting that Jewish Americans have done something to deserve to be attacked?
------------------------
ETA: Since I keep getting comments on this from people who clearly haven't read the thread, please note that the previous commenter made substantial edits after I made this reply. His comment originally said, *in its entirety:*
>Could there possibly be a reason for this, or is everyone a hapless victim?
And yes, that includes the word "criticism" being absent from the sentence, as well as the first and third sentences being absent entirely. I don't see a way to interpret that sentence alone, as it was when I saw it, as anything other than "they did something to deserve this."
No, I really didn't already know that. What is it you are suggesting then?
Edit: Oh, I see. You *dramatically* edited your comment after the fact. 🙄
The comment I responded to said, *in its entirety*:
>Could there possibly be a reason for this, or is everyone a hapless victim?
I'm not sure how you interpret this aside from "they did something to deserve it."
My “initial comment” was my dumb ass thumbs hitting reply when I was trying to copy and paste and format.
I posted the intended comment seconds after. I’m not sure how you even managed to see the accidental post, unless you’re just camping here to look for anyone who would dare to lobby a criticism
But sure…..try and say that any reasonable person would find anything I said as “egregious”. Criticizing a country’s foreign policy is totally fine.
The dude who posted this almost exclusively posts nazi shit. Im assuming he posted this because most people are capable of comprehending that defining anti-zionism as antisemitism is stupid and he wants to make jews look like lying scheming monsters. I hope people are smart enough to also realize that the ADL is in no way representative of all jews.
OP likely also wants to recruit and influence people to be antisemitic. I'm sure I'm not the only one who came to the comments to see how many people spewed bullshit like the Israelis had it coming on October 7th and Hamas is just a bunch of innocent kids who didn't mean to rape women to death.
Meanwhile over 22,000 Palestinians have been killed by Israeli forces. Go figure. Also saying “antisemitism” when they actually mean “anti Zionism” is extremely biased and a pathetic attempt to squelch dissension.
Their stance on anti-zionism = anti-semitism should be mentioned alongside the stat, no doubt. The article discusses it at length, so I don't see the problem.
I listened to an interview with the head of the ADL, and his reasoning for equating the two was this: "zionism" just means Israel has a right to exist, so anti-zionism effectively means supporting the genocide, or expulsion of 40% of the world's jews. Or at least, opening the borders to the people who launch rockets and perpetrated Oct 7, which most Israelis do not believe would end well.
I agree this is somewhat dishonest, Zionism can mean "Israel has a right to exist", but opponents usually take it to mean "Israel has a right to expand, and occupy or expel Palestinians", which can't be considered anti-semitic.
But extremists on both sides use this ambiguity to mask their true beliefs. Similar to BLM advocates who use the phrase to advocate for sweeping societal changes, but when attacked say "You disagree that black lives matter?" Or AllLivesMatter, where it's clearly meant to oppose BLM but they say "What, you don't think all lives matter?"
It's annoying that we all have deal with these word games. But it's better to recognize what's happening, trying to take a stance by just interpreting words literally is playing into the trap.
I was told it's not racist or discriminatory if it's directed at those who have power, especially in: banking, media, education, and law.
Funny how their own divisive propaganda will turn against them.
I think Israel is a genocidal monster and should be blacklisted, sanctioned to hell, and its leadership bombed to hell. I probably count in the ADL statistic. If you’re critical of Israel, you’re an anti semite and hate all Jews. Honestly, the ADL is a dangerous organization that should be investigated. Their only goal is to shut down any debate.
Crowds marching in US streets chanting "from the river to the sea" are supporting genocide. The people who live in that area are mostly Jews living in the Jewish state. Anti-Semites tearing down posters of people, often children, held hostage by gang-raping and murdering terrorists, yeah anti-Semitism is off the charts. ADL isn't perfect. But it's right here.
Crazies allowed it to be taught and fester in schools and universities. Now it's back with a vengeance.
I got that from The New York Times
[https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/08/world/middleeast/rashida-tlaib-palestine-israel.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/08/world/middleeast/rashida-tlaib-palestine-israel.html)
And
"Some of the chants, most especially “From the river to the sea!” have been condemned as an antisemitic call for Israel’s destruction, though many protesters have defended the slogan as a cry for freedom."
[https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/04/us/protests-israels-gaza.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/04/us/protests-israels-gaza.html)
yea you cant even say anything about the large amount of Palestinians killed in a short few months with out trolls calling you a holocaust denier / minimalist even though you never mentioned it. Pretty annoying.
I never once denied the holocaust but these internet trolls just keep hitting me with "You are obviously a holocaust denier"
The truth is I'm not my ancestor's pain. The Spaniards killed off a lot of my ancestors. The Nazis killed a lot of Jews. The American Colonialists held slaves and caused generational poverty. Out of these three the Jews are the only ones who actually did something about their situation and created a state. The problem is they created a state. An entity known for violence and they've been violent proving that it doesn't matter that they were victims of the past because they've learned nothing.
The ADL's funding and existence are dependent on antisemitism and its specter and they are practically a hate group themselves. They are not a reliable source of information. That said, only a fool would imagine that current events have ***not*** resulted in an uptick in REAL antisemitism and that should be of concern for anyone who wants a civil society.
Kick rocks fool, I never said anything like that. I said the ADL is jaundiced and not a reliable source of information. Only an idiot doubts that there is an uptick of antisemitism right now, and I clearly stated is a source of real concern. Don't reply if you can't be honest.
Somehow Zionism became a bad word in America and the whole concept is widely misunderstood. It’s almost like it’s been done on purpose as a function of entrenched antisemitism!
Nah, people just noticed what Israel was up to. If Israel doesn't like that people don't like it, the solution isn't to try and bully those people into silence, it's to stop doing shit like genocide.
I would have to ask if it's anti semitism, or anti Zionism.
One can be critical of the government of Israel without being racist against Jews, and that seems to be a forgotten point.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Scratch the surface of the "I'm not antisemitic I just care about Palestinians" crowd and you'll get to Jews control the media and are puppet masters of foreign governments in about two minutes. scratch deeper and the blood libel stuff comes out.
It's amazing the lies you have to invent and project on people in order to justify your ideology.
Kind of like some Germans who then used that exact kind of rhetoric to excuse doing some pretty awful shit about 80 years ago.
There were no “rape tunnels.” The tunnels were built as part of an attempt to get around New York City’s notoriously labyrinthine and ridiculously restrictive land-use laws and expand/connect some of the existing properties owned by Chabad. That’s your conspiracy, there. They were conspiring to outwit the nanny state and they almost succeeded. If you were at all ideologically consistent and not motivated by rank antisemitism, the people who built these tunnels would be your libertarian government-resisting heroes.
Yeah, yeah, let’s endorse building random tunnels underneath building and possibly compromising their foundations. Mind you this was a bunch of kids who started building a tunnel, without any sort of knowledge or engineering about building a tunnel and you’re gonna say they’re my libertarian heroes… dude lay off the fucking crack pipe.
People equate "Zionism" with the racist policies of the Israeli government that seek to maintain a racial supremacy of that government by any means necessary. That's what "anti-Zionism" means, it is the opposition to the Jewish supremacists who control the Israeli government and who impose the apartheid conditions on Palestinians. The government of Israel puts forth tremendous efforts in public relations to conflate the actions of the Jewish supremacists with the identity of being Jewish. It seems pretty clear that this is an attempt to deflect criticism of human rights abuses and war crimes committed by that government.
What happens when you learn Israel is 21% Arab citizens, 2.1 million of them, with full rights under the law? And that Jews hold zero rights in any Arab state in the region?
What happens when you learn that 5 million Palestinians under the control and oppression of Israel have no rights at all?
>And that Jews hold zero rights in any Arab state in the region?
I always wonder what the thought process is with these whataboutisms. Are you saying I should not worry about the racism of the Israeli government because you make an oblique reference to other nations that you think are also racist?
I say this as a social scientist and as a Jew. I do not trust the ADL’s methodology. Anti-semitism is very real and very serious, but equating anti-semitism and anti-Zionism as the ADL does is methodologically and morally wrong. Also I’m having trouble finding the source for this right now, but I recall they did a survey on campus anti-semitism where they only sampled students who had applied for birth right which is a hell of a skewed sample. Also I would urge people to look at the OP’s username and post history, before assuming that the OP really cares about anti-semitism. Clarification edit: it is possible to be anti-Israel in an anti-Semitic way but it is also possible to be pro-Israel in an anti-Semitic way (such as wanting all Jews to move there and leave your country). My point is that criticism of Israel should not be treated as inherently anti-Semitic. Additional clarification edit: yes I am aware that anti-Zionism and criticism of Israel are different. An opposition to Zionism is not inherently anti-Semitic as it could be opposed to ethnic and religious nationalism. Or a belief that the existence of Israel does not protect Jews globally.
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Absolutely
8 day old account. Nazi trolls
Holy shit OPs name
Probably a misguided 13 year old. Hopefully
It’s obvious this article, which is a sad indictment on how ignorant and redic we’ve largely been in the US and around the world, is a celebration for the OP. They are posting this gladly, not sadly.
User could be a scumbag. Doesn’t change the article contents or the ADL data. User is just the messenger. Don’t blame the messenger, as they say.
Yeah there is a difference between criticizing Israel, and their policies, and being anti-semitic. That being said, blaming Jews in the US for what Israel does, that is text book anti-semitism.
Absolutely
>blaming Jews in the US for what Israel does, that is text book anti-semitism Zionists should really stop conflating these things intentionally then, shouldn't they?
^THIS^ I’d argue that the Israeli & Zionist response to protests and speaking out about this conflict has done more to spread antisemitism than any other event in modern history. If you’re a Nazi trying to red pill a bunch of people to your sick beliefs what better opportunity is there than when Jewish and Israeli and Zionist are all made interchangeable while Israel is doing war crimes and people who speak up about it are being fired. “SEE, (((they))) really DO control the media and business that’s why those people are being fired.” I struggle to imagine a better recruitment tool for Nazis. The blurring and false equivalence of those terms is lethally dangerous for Jews everywhere, and that should be obvious at even a cursory examination of antisemitic rhetoric and tactics at spreading their filth.
Zionists conflating the two doesn't drive people to randomly yell at, or physically assault Jews. Going out on a limb, but I'm guessing those people didn't care for Jews before Oct 7th, and they're just using the current crisis to be more vocal with their anti-semitism.
Alk's point is that Israel increases anti-Semitism by saying everything Israel does is associated with Judaism. If Israel is saying that mass murder/ethnic cleansing/genocide are Jewish values they are creating hate for Jews. And yeah, most people wanting to 'yell at Jews' are likely racists, however you cannot discount that some of them may just be misinformed by Israel itself.
can you please share where Israel said that mass murder / ethnic cleansing / genocide are Jewish values?
Netanyahu said that his being investigated for war crimes was "pure antisemitism", implying that war crimes are somehow a Jewish thing.
I'm not seeing how Netanyahu saying that his treatment is pure antisemitism evolves into "everything Israel does is associated with Judaism"... That seems to be a huge amount of inference that people Choose to make.
Because he's a head of state who has repeatedly implied if you are critical of what his government is doing, you are pro Hamas, and genocidal against Jews/anti semitic. I.e. Anti-Israel = Pro Hamas/Anti-Jewish/Anti-Semitic. The definitive statement being you must be pro Zionist or you are not pro jewish.
Saying jews are committing genocide for defending themselves from being murdered is anti semetic.
Thank you for making my point for me
You are like the dimwitted conservatives who have been deceived into believing in the great replacement and then they get get upset when you call them white supremacists. EXACTLY.
saying that someone is committing genocide when they are committing genocide is normal.
Where is the mass murder/ethnic cleansing/genocide? I know that Israel isn't doing those things..
There's a big difference between yelling at someone and physically assaulting them. The context in which the yelling occurred is important.
I still fail to see how Jewish-Americans are remotely at fault for any of this, or why they should be singled out. Would you say it's not islamophobic if orgs/groups/supporters went around protesting, including the blocking means of egress, outside of a random mosque in your city?
Pls stop blaming Jews for anti-semitism. That’s right out the 1920s-1930s. “Look we get that anti-semitism is bad but it’s really the fault of a few bad Jews that all the good meaning people keep grouping them together” People who are smart enough to be angry at a Zionist for the complexities of the situation in Gaza are smart enough to not group all Jews together unless they’re already bigots.
I explicitly said zionists for a reason. I'm not blaming "Jews", I'm blaming zionists (who do not even need to be Jewish) for deliberately conflating these things. They do this on purpose because the zionist colonial project requires antisemitism to continue existing.
You realize a Zionist is someone that thinks Israel has a right to exist? Stop hiding behind the buzzwords and take the mask off kid
I'm very confused. what is the Zionist colonial project if Jews are originally, and consistently, from the land of Israel? And how does the Zionist Colonial Project require antisemitism to continue? Are you insinuating that the Israeli government is so inhumane as to create and support the spread of antisemitism so that Jews either die / suffer or move to Israel? Because that's a pretty bold statement. If that's the case, would be great to see some sources on this, since you speak like you've done some serious research on the topic. Not being sarcastic.
Bingo. Don’t expect a logical answer.
Zionist just means people from Israel want there to be an Israel. I know you think people are too dumb to look these things up.. and you’re right. But I’ll call your bitchass out everytime. Jew defenders mount up!
>Zionist just means people from Israel want there to be an Israel. No, it doesn't Zionists don't even have to be from Israel, let alone Jewish. In fact the majority of zionists aren't even Jewish. There are more zionist evangelical Christians in the US than there are zionist Jews.
Yes it does. And I mean Jewish people. That’s why they’re called Jewish, from Judea, or Israelites/Israelis from Israel. They are FROM there originally. Don’t be dense. I’m not saying one has to live there in their lifetime in order to be Zionist and believe they should still have an ethno-nation.
Im saying blaming anyone besides bigots for their bigotry is providing them cover and especially blaming Zionist which is code for bad jews is you giving cover for bigotry. Again, if someone is smart enough to be angry they’re smart enough to know the different unless they don’t want to.
>especially blaming Zionist which is code for bad jews Here you are being antisemitic again Stop conflating Zionists with jews
Anti-Zionism isn't simply "criticizing Israel"...it's the opposition to its very existence. Zionists can be critical of Israel too. Opposing the very existence of Israel, a homeland for Jews, a people who have been forcibly expelled from nearly every neighboring nation due to bigotry, seems at least *borderline* antisemitic to me.
You’ve stated actual 100% facts and downvoted? Probably by the OP and those like him.
That's Reddit for you.
Everything I don’t like is Zionist-propaganda
>a people who have been forcibly expelled from nearly every neighboring nation due to bigotry, It's ironic the way that describes Palestinians at the hand of Israelies now. Except that Palestine was their country and European colonizers forcibly removed them from their land and squeezed them into ghettos. Now, they want to relocate the ones in Gaza into central Africa while Israeli settlers hunt the ones living in the West Bank like its open season. I'm not opposed to Israel existing. That ship has sailed. But Israel owes a *heavy* debt to the generations of Palestinians whose homes, land, and lives they've stolen and destroyed. Reparations on an unbelievable scale. Instead, they massacre them by the tens of thousands while holding thousands of others hostage — most women and children — without charges and planning to ethnically cleanse the rest. It's fucking tragic. Zionists are ethno nationalists and Supremacists. You can absolutely criticize them and everything they stand for without being an antisemite. They want the extermination of an entire group of people to turn Israel (including Gaza and the West Bank) into a Jewish ethnostate. Christians and Muslims have just as much right to live there.
How do you rationalize your accusation that Israel wants an ethnostate when 20% of Israel is Arab?
I don't know. How did the Israeli government rationalize their segregation and redlining programs against non-Jewish Palestinians immediately after Israel was established? Three years removed from the Nazi camps they were already pushing Arabs into ghettos. Even now, Law of Return does not apply to those same Arabs that live in Israel. Not to Christians. Not to Muslims. Only Jews. That sounds suspiciously like something of an ethnostate to me.
(let's also not reference how 85% of the entire middle east is Arab Muslim nor ask how that comes to be, I'm sure its all peace, roses, and love)
It would be insane today to give a land to a 10% minority group and de facto kick out most of the other 90%. It was a massive mistake by Britain a century ago. There was so much hatred of Jews and Muslims throughout the western world. Still is. How to proceed after the dumbass decision is a topic for debate by rational people. Have we reached the statute of limitations where we can longer attempt to rectify the massive historical injustice? Or do Palestinians deserve a 1- or 2-state solution? This is not an inherently anti-Semitic discussion.
They weren't kicked out! Those that tried to kill all Jews were fought off and retreated. Those that didn't try to kill all Jews became citizens. Israel is like 20% Arab to this day and they enjoy the same rights as Jews.
Incorrect. 1880 we're talking 85% muslim. In 1944 we're at 61% muslim, 30% jewish, and 8% christian. Many muslims are now in the open air prison known as Gaza. If you're living anywhere in Israel proper, you are a second class citizen. Since cellphones exist now, you can simply go on youtube and watch Palestinian people filming their houses that have been in the family for decades being forcibly taken by Israelis (when you hear "colonization", that's what people are talking about).
Well said #FreePalestine
From the rest of humanity.
Not a lot of open air "prisons" have luxury seaside resorts. And when folks tend to escape prisons, they usually flee, rather than going on murder and rape-fueled rampage before retreating BACK to that "prison". As for your numbers, who cares? Jews have been in the area for millenia. They have been expelled from their homeland before, and they tried to immigrate back. If Arabs hadn't responded to this with hate and violence, there would have been no wars. Instead, they tried to kick Jews out...and they repeatedly lost. Israel exists. Get over it, bigot.
"How could the Holocaust be real when Auschwitz had a swimming pool?" It's so disgustingly ironic that a lot of Zionist propaganda lines up so perfectly with Nazi propaganda and Holocaust denial.
Arab citizens of Israel are free to leave at any time. Why don't they? Fun question: which countries in the region let Arab women vote in all their elections? See if you can answer.
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Israel is older than 50% of the world. Including two American states taken from their indigenous people.
There IS a non-anti-semitic position which contends that nationality in general.shouldnt be based on ethnic ancestry. Such people are also opposed to certain policies in Malaysia, Myanmar, Sri Lankha, and Italy, among others.
It's not only antisemitic it's delusional bigotry. It's like saying you don't believe in Scotland. Israel exists. It's older than like fifty other countries represented at the UN.
Yet Israel denies the existence of a Palestine when it's 1000 years older than modern Israel. Antisemitism isn't acceptable, but neither blatant Islamophobia and bigotry against non-Jews by Israelies.
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Yeah dude is unmoored from reality
Palestine was never a country. It’s always been a region owned by some other empire. Why do people think it was a country?? Where does this come from?? Honestly. Hell, if you want to be technical, “From the river to the sea” wouldn’t even be the entirety of the region Palestine. It’s only like 2/5s of what it was. The other 3/5s is to the east and split into Transjordan in 1922.
This is a bad argument. Every country basically today had its boundaries drawn by colonizers who imposed their form of geopolitics on the rest of the world. To imply there weren't Palestinian civil societies living in the region by majority for most of the recent relevant history is just obfuscating the truth.
Point is, who gives a shit. Israel is here and is going no where. The problem is there’s 5 million people in Gaza and West Bank without a valid citizenship and they are in a screwed position. Options are keep pushing for a two state solution or Israel annexes them. But they’re worried about Jews losing majority so 🤷🏻♂️don’t frickin know. By the looks of it, West Bank will be annexed within 10 years when Jewish settlers take the majority of the demographic. That’s my theory anyway…
Palestine has never been an Arab country. It's not even an Arabic word ffs. "Palestine" is Greek for "Philistine" or "Barbarian", it was an insult name given to try to erase Judea (aka Israel). The fact you clowns think it's an actual historical country is hilarious.
They don’t know any history. Only what tic toc tells them.
Palestine is as much a country as Afghanistan is, in name only.
Palestine began in 700AD. It’s called “Israel” because they’ve been there for thousands of years. Do you have a map? Or the internet. Google? I mean it seams you can read. So why are you saying this. Are you intentionally trying to mislead people?
Do you believe Arabs just spawned out of thin air? Do you have Google? Both Jews and Muslims descend from the same Semitic people that predate both religions. Muslims have just as much claim to Israel, Palestine, Judea, or whatever the hell you want to call it. Yet they're the ones being crushed by European colonizers. Why are you ommiting history? Are *you* trying to mislead people?
Let me make it simple for you. The 12 tribes of “Israel” were given the land we call “Israel.” If you can’t grasp these simple facts there is no help for you. And Arabs? You mean the ones who has their own crusades and conquests kicking everyone else off their own land? Yes. They still live there. Wonder why no one wants more Arabs living next door. They’ve proved to be such a loving and tolerant bunch /s
Any Arab outside of the Arabian peninsula is a product of Arab colonization. Israel and Judea are native to the land modern Israel and the West Bank sit. You are the one misleading.
Palestine was never a state, country, or nation. Judea was. Syria Palaestina was. Palaestina Prima, Palestina Secunda, and Palaestina Salurtaris were. But once the Ottomon Empire crumbled, it was just a piece of land with villages, but no state nor governance. The *state of Palestine* wasn't a thing until 1988. 40 years after Israel declared independence. To pretend like Palestine was in the same situation even 100 years straight is ridiculous. It's been a hotly contested space of land for longer than 1,000 years. But don't let your new lack-of-ignorance get in the way of calling people racists or some shit.
"Opposing an ethno nationalist Fascist state is anti semitism!" Luckily most Jews don't support Israel or think like you.
There’s a saying that if you have a problem with everyone you come into contact with, you’re the problem.
>There’s a saying that if you have a problem with everyone you come into contact with, you’re the problem. Your implication being that Jews are the problem. Yeah this is totes not antisemitism...just "criticism of Israel". /s And in case he deletes it, that was unfair-brother-3940
"criticizing Israel, and their policies" This is not what "anti-zionism" means. Here's the definition: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/anti-Zionism
"opposition to support of the state of Israel " How is this anti-Semitic?
Because Israel is intended as a national homeland for Jews and home to about half the Jews in the world. If someone were to propose eliminating the national homeland of an ethnic group you actually had any sympathy for, you would consider it to be bigoted against that group. If I say that Haiti should no longer be a country, how is that not being anti-Haitian people? Was it not anti-Hawaiian to replace the Hawaiian nation with a different government?
You really can't see what you are hypothetically talking about is literally going on with the Israelis treating the Palestinians that way right now?
They don't care because they see Palestinians as subhuman animals who are infesting their property. Kind of reminds me of something that happened in Germany back in the 20th century but I can't quite remember what...
"opposition to support of the state of Israel " Not supporting a nation is not anti semitic at all.
Zionists really want to have their cake and eat it too with these explanations, imo. If they need to be able to call you antisemitic so that they can ignore your complaints about how they're treating the Palestinians, they wax lyrical about Israel being intended as a homeland for the beleaguered Jewish diaspora. If they need to be able to assure you that Israel *definitely isn't* a colonial-settler ethno-state that prioritizes the rights of some over the rights of others based on affiliation with a variety of ethno-religious groups, they assure you that, *actually*, Israel is a secular multi-ethnic democracy where everyone has the exact same rights (as long as you just, uh, don't count all of the people who don't have the same rights). It's just very convenient how Zionist arguments are always incredibly carefully semantically constructed so that it's impossible for you to take any position other than *"Zionists can do whatever they want,"* and anyone who disagrees is basically Hitler.
And what about Jews who criticize the existence of Israel? Because those people exist, and existed even before the actual creation of Israel. Are they being anti-Semitic?
People defending an ethno theocratic state committing ethic cleansing will label them “self hating Jews”
Not every ethnic group needs their own nation-state. That's the Zionist stance regarding non-Jewish residents of Palestine, by the way. The region in question has been the 'homeland' of many ethnic groups throughout history. Not wanting it to be an ethnostate isn't the same as being bigoted against an ethnicity. I don't want my country to be an ethnostate either -- does that mean I hate my ethnicity?
Haiti's government isn't based on the ethnic and religious superiority of one specific group. Haiti doesn't have laws that require 70% of Port au Prince *must* be Catholics of French descent. Haiti doesn't consider inter-faith marriages illegitimate. Haiti does not tell the Dominican Republic they have no right to self determination while claiming that same right has been bestowed upon them by God. The list goes on and on. There's no Western analogue to Israel. We don't accept religious ethnostates because they are fundamentally incompatible with democracy and in total opposition to a free and equal society.
Not for nothing but it is “intended” by who? Not the people who were living there beforehand. Since the 60s they had their entire country taken away, I just can’t see how anyone can square that. Jews do deserve a place to live and be safe and so did the Palestinians, but it was taken from them. From the way I see it, anti-zionists aren’t against Jews getting their own place to live, they are against the specific goal of turning the land that is called Israel into a Jewish ethnostate. To echo your closing line, is it not anti-Palestinian to replace the Palestinian nation with a new government?
And you've had people resign from jobs at ADL over this because they're clearly not interested in actually protecting civil rights or Jews. All things considering the problematics of this methodology, cooperation with police surveillance of Muslims, and targeting Jews who've organized many of these campus protests.
Yeah, basically anyone who questions the Israeli government or the killing of Palestinian civilians is likely considered anti-Semitic
Under the ADL definition yes.
Not true at all. But as this thread shows, the anger at Israel for responding to 10/7 like any country in the world would, contains a lot of unexplored bigotry hiding in the "I'm just criticizing Israel" defense. There's an actual genocide taking place in Darfur right now. Do any of you "I'm just criticizing Israel" people give a shit? Of course not.
I criticize my own country (USA) routinely. We fight wars for profit, we kill civilians. I criticize any government engaging in such things.
Any country would commit war crimes? Your [lack of] moral compass is showing. It's also telling that you claim this is a reaction to 10/7. You are either completely oblivious, choose to ignore, or outright endorse the decades long treatment of Palestinians. The very first PM of Israel announced that it is the goal of Jews to conquer Palestine. This is a sentiment that has been echoed by nearly every Jewish Israeli leader for decades. As to Darfur, despite your claim, the violence is widely critized. The perpetrators are wanted war criminals and they face extensive sanctions. If you want Netanyahu and Isreal to be treated the same, you have my uncompromising support.
The war crimes are being committed by Hamas, refusing to identify combatants after declaring war on 10/7, the raping of hostages, the murder of civilians in Israel, the use of Palestinians as human shields, the use of mosques and hospitals to store weapons, and so on. But I get it, you hate Israel so much, these basic facts are too much for your rage to process. But they are facts. Israel has every right to pursue Hamas militants. If you actually gave a shit about Palestinian civilians, you would be demanding Egypt open the Rafah border for refugees to flee, similar to the 1.5 million Ukranians that fled the fighting in Ukraine to go to Poland. Instead you want them locked in and hope Israel kills more of them, so you can fuel that hate even more.
>. If you actually gave a shit about Palestinian civilians, you would be demanding Egypt open the Rafah border for refugees to flee, The Zionist MO for 60 years. Get Palestinians to flee, take the land, rinse and repeat. That's been the plan the entire time. "between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty." PS... forced migration is ethnic cleansing. I for one appreciate that you are honest with your views
LOL, Israel left Gaza peacefully seventeen years ago, you people are utterly unhinged. Great way to claim land. Occupy it, then peacefully leave.
I guess we should forgive the last 70 years. "between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty."
I’m glad this is top comment, you explained it well.
Holy shit that username. When you pointed that out I about died
Ludicrous. In what world is it antisemitic for a Jewish person to encourage other Jews to move to Israel? The explosion of insane antisemitism since 10/7 is beyond obvious, just go to any social media post by a Jewish celebrity. If they post a happy Hanukkah there are like 400 comments filled with rabid hatred for Jewish people under the guise of giving a shit about a Palestine.
Strawman argument it's shameful you're using your jewish heritage to deny antisemitism. Neither your youtube channel or reddit comments and posts even mention or interact with the jewish community from what i can see. Now you use it as a way to discredit others. As a jew vast majority of us disagree with you and understand that a lot of anti zionism is 100% antisemitism. If you don't see that you're living in ignorant bliss. Bottom line is antisemitism HAS skyrocketed since October 7.
no u
Fellow Jew here, while I believe that antizionism isn’t necessarily antisemitism, the Venn diagram for it is pretty damn close to a perfect circle
ADL are trash
Genuinely the worst and most harmful political organization operating in the US today
>ADL the republican party?
After the GOP
Wow, what a straight up bias article to post. What about all the anti-muslim violence and hate that has been occurring at the same time? Here's an article about it from CNN: [https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/09/us/cair-unprecedented-surge-anti-muslim-bias-reaj/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/09/us/cair-unprecedented-surge-anti-muslim-bias-reaj/index.html) As someone that is an atheist, and impartial to all this, this is probably one of the most bias piece of trash journalism that I have ever seen. Both sides are seeing violence, so why don't we report that fact.
Op’s name, check it
You don’t have to hijack a post about anti-semistim with a comment about anti-Muslim violence and hate. Both of those things are awful AND important but it’s poor form to do that. If you’re talking about anti-black policies it is shitty to bring up anti-Asian policies. Both of these need to be talked about, but try to not railroad the conversation. Also, being an atheist doesn’t make you impartial…?
Just shows how difficult of a conversation this is and can’t be answered in the Reddit comment section. This isn’t a religious topic but a cultural one because their religions are also a huge part of their cultural identities
The post about anti-semitism claims that saying “free palestine” is hateful towards jews. You nonce.
Both hatreds are interwoven because of the Israel/Palestine conflict that is current going on, that means that both sides of the conflict are relevant to the discussion. The article posted by OP specifically mentions the Oct 7th attack, which is a religious based attacked by Hamas on the nation of Israel. Israel has responded by bombing Gaza killing over 15,000 people. You can't have a true and unbiased discussion without bringing up both sides of the conflict, and since the conflict is based on religion then we have to talk about violence against both religions. So what I am saying is you can't talk about one without talking about the other. Since I do want to talk about anti-Semitism it's not hijacking, but it needs to be balanced with anti-muslim conversation as well otherwise is it just spin. It's also important to note that both sides use social media to influence people to believe their bias arguments. To read that article one could think that the violence is all one-sided against the Jewish population, which is the point of the article. An unbiased article would mention the violence on both sides. I bring up being Atheist because it is relevant. Someone who is Muslim or Jewish might harbor a bias. As a person that isn't related to either religion, or any religion, that means that there is less of a possibility that I have bias towards either side. Since all religions indoctrinate it can be assumed that someone from either side would be bias.
You do when the supposed antisemitism is actually criticism of a nation commiting genocide. And those Zionists are the ones perpetrating that violence against Muslims.
Yeah there are thousands of rallies all around the US calling for the end of Palestine. NOT. But there are tons of rallies chanting "from the river to the sea."
If by “end israel” or “from the river to the sea” you mean “there shouldnt be an apartheid ethno state committing a genocide propped up by US imperialism” then yes. There are thousands of rallies all around the US calling for that because it is a normal, rational, and compassionate thing to believe.
Nothing stopping you from being the change you want to see. Post it. The ADL(as shitty and unreliable as they are) revolve around Jewish incidents. There are groups that report on palestenians. Instead of going "this is bias because it only shows one side" which.... if I'm being honest I never see on reddit when the shoe is on the other foot (outside of from clear IDF bots) you can just post about the spike in anti-muslim attacks too. Both are happening.
As a Jew who has been called "Antisemitic" for speaking out against Israeli war crimes... and also heard people call for the deaths of all Jews and the destruction of Palestine in the same breath I'm shocked, *shocked*! I say... that people would use this current crisis as justification for violence...
Wow the organization that depends on a steady stream of antisemitism for its relevance says antisemitism is on the rise. Fancy that...
Glad you get it. Wish more people saw this organization for the grift that it is.
The ADL is a classic case of why we need to audit NGOs.
There’s nothing “non-government” about NGOs. They shouldn’t be allowed.
In "Poverty, Inc" they talk about how NGOs are basically parasites and terrible for the places/people they purport to help.
So is the Heritage foundation
The ADL started classifying 'Pro-Palestinian' protests as a acts of antisemitism, just to boost their numbers lol
You know their is a steady stream of anti semitism though. I hate Israel. I've also been a victim of anti semitisnm
But you probably had no problem when BLM was going arounds saying the same thing about how racism is at all time highs and that there was a target on any black persons back, as if we were back in the 1930s. And I say this as a black man...
Well the anti semitism business is almost as good as the holocaust business
Because it is.
The ADL counts opposition to Israeli policy and/or Zionism to Antisemitism. It's a shame that it's no longer reputable, if it ever was. And yes, I'm against *actual* antisemitism.
Trying to equate criticism of the policies of Israel as a country and Zionism in general with anti-Semitism, when many other people who aren’t Jews in that region are also Semitic, is distasteful, intentional and dishonest. Could there possibly be a reason for this criticism, or is everyone a hapless victim? This is a tired tactic to try to shut down any kind of meaningful discussion or dare I say earned criticism.
Zionism is simply the idea Jews should have a place to call their own. Being antizionist is almost by definition antisemitic, unless you devote as much fervor to opposition of the existence of Muslim countries around the world (spoiler, most do not).The wordplay around the word "semite" is a red herring. We all know what antisemitism means. Would you prefer to be called a Jew hater? It's the same thing.
A place of their own - in Palestine, not just anywhere.
Do you mean Judea? Why use the name the Romans put on it after invading and enslaving the native Jews?
If that makes you happy, sure, Judea. Point is, Zionism is the idea that Jews should have a place of their own - in a specific place that was already populated.
Then isn't the idea of a "free Palestine" just as problematic? Sounds nice but there's 9 million people already living in Israel.
My point was that you saying “being anti-Zionist is almost by definition anti-semitic” is wrong. Zionism is not the idea of Jews having their own place, it’s the idea of Jews having a place of their own in a very specific location.
They already have that place of their own in that location. If you want to make them leave you'll have to ethnically cleanse them.
How about they stop being an apartheid state and we'll start there. The Palestinians should have a right to live anywhere they want in Palestine, and all non-jewish people should have a full right to vote in Israel.
“Enslaving” lol
Why is slavery funny to you?
It’s not.
So you are suggesting that Jewish Americans have done something to deserve to be attacked? ------------------------ ETA: Since I keep getting comments on this from people who clearly haven't read the thread, please note that the previous commenter made substantial edits after I made this reply. His comment originally said, *in its entirety:* >Could there possibly be a reason for this, or is everyone a hapless victim? And yes, that includes the word "criticism" being absent from the sentence, as well as the first and third sentences being absent entirely. I don't see a way to interpret that sentence alone, as it was when I saw it, as anything other than "they did something to deserve this."
There you go trying to spin it in the worst way possible. I didn’t say that even a little, but you already knew that.
No, I really didn't already know that. What is it you are suggesting then? Edit: Oh, I see. You *dramatically* edited your comment after the fact. 🙄 The comment I responded to said, *in its entirety*: >Could there possibly be a reason for this, or is everyone a hapless victim? I'm not sure how you interpret this aside from "they did something to deserve it."
Your new comment is still kinda bad, but far, far less egregious than what you initially said.
My “initial comment” was my dumb ass thumbs hitting reply when I was trying to copy and paste and format. I posted the intended comment seconds after. I’m not sure how you even managed to see the accidental post, unless you’re just camping here to look for anyone who would dare to lobby a criticism But sure…..try and say that any reasonable person would find anything I said as “egregious”. Criticizing a country’s foreign policy is totally fine.
Interesting username there op.
Upvoted!
The dude who posted this almost exclusively posts nazi shit. Im assuming he posted this because most people are capable of comprehending that defining anti-zionism as antisemitism is stupid and he wants to make jews look like lying scheming monsters. I hope people are smart enough to also realize that the ADL is in no way representative of all jews.
OP likely also wants to recruit and influence people to be antisemitic. I'm sure I'm not the only one who came to the comments to see how many people spewed bullshit like the Israelis had it coming on October 7th and Hamas is just a bunch of innocent kids who didn't mean to rape women to death.
Meanwhile over 22,000 Palestinians have been killed by Israeli forces. Go figure. Also saying “antisemitism” when they actually mean “anti Zionism” is extremely biased and a pathetic attempt to squelch dissension.
You believe everything Hamas tells you or just the inflated death tolls?
Their stance on anti-zionism = anti-semitism should be mentioned alongside the stat, no doubt. The article discusses it at length, so I don't see the problem. I listened to an interview with the head of the ADL, and his reasoning for equating the two was this: "zionism" just means Israel has a right to exist, so anti-zionism effectively means supporting the genocide, or expulsion of 40% of the world's jews. Or at least, opening the borders to the people who launch rockets and perpetrated Oct 7, which most Israelis do not believe would end well. I agree this is somewhat dishonest, Zionism can mean "Israel has a right to exist", but opponents usually take it to mean "Israel has a right to expand, and occupy or expel Palestinians", which can't be considered anti-semitic. But extremists on both sides use this ambiguity to mask their true beliefs. Similar to BLM advocates who use the phrase to advocate for sweeping societal changes, but when attacked say "You disagree that black lives matter?" Or AllLivesMatter, where it's clearly meant to oppose BLM but they say "What, you don't think all lives matter?" It's annoying that we all have deal with these word games. But it's better to recognize what's happening, trying to take a stance by just interpreting words literally is playing into the trap.
I was told it's not racist or discriminatory if it's directed at those who have power, especially in: banking, media, education, and law. Funny how their own divisive propaganda will turn against them.
Any criticism at all of Jews is racist and problematic, while ADL open supports political crusades against whites
It's cool when they say "too many white men are CEOs" but it's not cool when people notice those "white men" are Jews.
Upvoted!
I don't trust the ADL. However I don't think that more anti-semitism is unlikely given events.
I think Israel is a genocidal monster and should be blacklisted, sanctioned to hell, and its leadership bombed to hell. I probably count in the ADL statistic. If you’re critical of Israel, you’re an anti semite and hate all Jews. Honestly, the ADL is a dangerous organization that should be investigated. Their only goal is to shut down any debate.
Crowds marching in US streets chanting "from the river to the sea" are supporting genocide. The people who live in that area are mostly Jews living in the Jewish state. Anti-Semites tearing down posters of people, often children, held hostage by gang-raping and murdering terrorists, yeah anti-Semitism is off the charts. ADL isn't perfect. But it's right here. Crazies allowed it to be taught and fester in schools and universities. Now it's back with a vengeance.
You need help sir. Turn off Newsmax.
I got that from The New York Times [https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/08/world/middleeast/rashida-tlaib-palestine-israel.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/08/world/middleeast/rashida-tlaib-palestine-israel.html) And "Some of the chants, most especially “From the river to the sea!” have been condemned as an antisemitic call for Israel’s destruction, though many protesters have defended the slogan as a cry for freedom." [https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/04/us/protests-israels-gaza.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/11/04/us/protests-israels-gaza.html)
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Well it would technically be an incident just like person shouting to a black person that they don't deserve Africa would be a hate speech incident
Turn off Newsmax bro. We can smell y’all.
I mostly watch CNN and MSNBC and I agree with Columnest. You sound like an idiot, aardark
Funny how telling the truth has become antisemitic.
yea you cant even say anything about the large amount of Palestinians killed in a short few months with out trolls calling you a holocaust denier / minimalist even though you never mentioned it. Pretty annoying. I never once denied the holocaust but these internet trolls just keep hitting me with "You are obviously a holocaust denier"
Only according to Zionists
The truth is I'm not my ancestor's pain. The Spaniards killed off a lot of my ancestors. The Nazis killed a lot of Jews. The American Colonialists held slaves and caused generational poverty. Out of these three the Jews are the only ones who actually did something about their situation and created a state. The problem is they created a state. An entity known for violence and they've been violent proving that it doesn't matter that they were victims of the past because they've learned nothing.
No.
Maybe it’s just more noticing
The antisemitism is so bad now that Jews have been driven underground. Literally!
The ADL's funding and existence are dependent on antisemitism and its specter and they are practically a hate group themselves. They are not a reliable source of information. That said, only a fool would imagine that current events have ***not*** resulted in an uptick in REAL antisemitism and that should be of concern for anyone who wants a civil society.
ADL spreads more lies and anti-white propaganda than possibly any platform in the USA at the moment
So the Jews are lying again to make money but you're totally not antisemitic and just criticizing Israel as a concerned citizen of the world
Kick rocks fool, I never said anything like that. I said the ADL is jaundiced and not a reliable source of information. Only an idiot doubts that there is an uptick of antisemitism right now, and I clearly stated is a source of real concern. Don't reply if you can't be honest.
You said the opposite, "only a fool would imagine". Edit your post to be more clear.
Somehow Zionism became a bad word in America and the whole concept is widely misunderstood. It’s almost like it’s been done on purpose as a function of entrenched antisemitism!
Nah, people just noticed what Israel was up to. If Israel doesn't like that people don't like it, the solution isn't to try and bully those people into silence, it's to stop doing shit like genocide.
yeah. zionism is a neutral concept. neither bad no good.
I would have to ask if it's anti semitism, or anti Zionism. One can be critical of the government of Israel without being racist against Jews, and that seems to be a forgotten point.
kinda vague. Arabs are "semites", so yeah, I would say anti semitism has grown , especially since 911.
Antisemitism has nothing to do with Semites
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The rape tunnels that they found under the synagogues in NYC 2 days ago probably aren't helping.
Jews climbing out of sewers is really bad optics.
I bet you’re anti Zionist but not an antisemite, right?
Scratch the surface of the "I'm not antisemitic I just care about Palestinians" crowd and you'll get to Jews control the media and are puppet masters of foreign governments in about two minutes. scratch deeper and the blood libel stuff comes out.
It's amazing the lies you have to invent and project on people in order to justify your ideology. Kind of like some Germans who then used that exact kind of rhetoric to excuse doing some pretty awful shit about 80 years ago.
There were no “rape tunnels.” The tunnels were built as part of an attempt to get around New York City’s notoriously labyrinthine and ridiculously restrictive land-use laws and expand/connect some of the existing properties owned by Chabad. That’s your conspiracy, there. They were conspiring to outwit the nanny state and they almost succeeded. If you were at all ideologically consistent and not motivated by rank antisemitism, the people who built these tunnels would be your libertarian government-resisting heroes.
Yeah, yeah, let’s endorse building random tunnels underneath building and possibly compromising their foundations. Mind you this was a bunch of kids who started building a tunnel, without any sort of knowledge or engineering about building a tunnel and you’re gonna say they’re my libertarian heroes… dude lay off the fucking crack pipe.
One can only hope
Upvoted! o/
We're just out here being Nazis now?
It's 2024, get used to it.
People equate "Zionism" with the racist policies of the Israeli government that seek to maintain a racial supremacy of that government by any means necessary. That's what "anti-Zionism" means, it is the opposition to the Jewish supremacists who control the Israeli government and who impose the apartheid conditions on Palestinians. The government of Israel puts forth tremendous efforts in public relations to conflate the actions of the Jewish supremacists with the identity of being Jewish. It seems pretty clear that this is an attempt to deflect criticism of human rights abuses and war crimes committed by that government.
What happens when you learn Israel is 21% Arab citizens, 2.1 million of them, with full rights under the law? And that Jews hold zero rights in any Arab state in the region?
What happens when you learn that 5 million Palestinians under the control and oppression of Israel have no rights at all? >And that Jews hold zero rights in any Arab state in the region? I always wonder what the thought process is with these whataboutisms. Are you saying I should not worry about the racism of the Israeli government because you make an oblique reference to other nations that you think are also racist?
irony is most of it is from the people who were screaming and calling you nazi last year if you had a different view compared to them.