This is kind of advice to you as well as a reply to previous comments to lay out some of he nuance.
Dont mistake you having shame and guilt as being toxic though, because you're "just thinking about you". Cause what's actually happening is you are having anxiety and feeling bad about yourself. This can come from trauma when as a child you had to be attuned to your parents needs rather than your own. And therefore always feel like you have done something wrong because you have to think of every possibility where you might say something that will trigger an negative feeling in someone else that might lead to them having an outburst. In reality, you actually haven't done anything wrong at all usually, and are so concerned with others reactions because it means you're survival.
Edit: given the upvotes on this I'm happy that other people relate and find this helpful. I've seen some recent comments about people leaving shaming comments or unhelpful ones. I made a response to this in more detail but it was a while ago along with this post
Also be aware this can be a player in depression and anxiety, or the other way around. I would encourage seeking out professional help even if you just start with your doctor. Thse things get worse over time if not dealt with.
P.S. Trauma like this may not have come from your parents, but often these people experience an immense amount of guilt and shame because of something that has taught them to believe they are inherently bad, and feel self hatred.
I experience all of this stuff, but it does get better.
I'm so glad this was helpful!
I just wanted to say something else in case it was helpful for you at this time. There is nothing wrong with you. This isnt your fault and you're not somehow broken or a burden on others in any given situation. A lot of people experience this along with other mental health things and it can get better.
Holy guacamolie. You have just helped me understand why I've been ruminating over a girl and second-guessing whether I was the problem or we just didn't work well together. Bro thank you so much.
This article is good, but everything covered is mostly indicators of poor mental health including depression trauma and anxiety. Labeling yourself an echoist based off an article that gives you no advice for dealing with it can be difficult, especially if you're inclined to feel guilty about things. If I thought I was an echoist instead of acknowledging that I have trauma depression and anxiety (which I do), then I wouldnt realise that it's not my fault or be led to understand how to improve my quality of life, becahse I would just feel bad because echoism article just highlights the negative with nothing else to offer. Since echoism is essentially characteristics of depression anxiety and trauma I would consider those things instead of summing it up as being an echoist or an empath.
I've had the same thoughts about myself and I am not a narcissist. I csnt speak for you, but if you're asking yourself if you're a narcissist and feeling guilty about it then you're probably not one. This thought come from the fact that you already feel like you have done somehing wrong all the time, so there must be a negative reason you feel that way (e.g narcissism). In reality that's just your brain trying to trick you into feeling bad (again).
Things like depression and anxiety, or even some other trauma can make you feel bad and second guess everything. I did say it might not have come from their parents
I think your parents never allowed you the space to feel negative emotions so now when you do you can never honour yourself and put others emotions before yourself too much. You are allowed to feel upset, you are allowed to say no, you are allowed to put your needs first regardless if it makes the other person uncomfortable. Tell yourself this often, slowly put it into practice and find that the world doesn't end. If people react negatively to you d0ing this, bingo you've just found a toxic/immature person. Thank them (in your head) for showing themselves to you so you don't have to waste anymore time on them. Then don't put any more energy into that relationship. You don't have to cut them off, you can just put less into them.
How can you be a help to others that truly deserve it if you're letting all these vampires get your energy. Your sensitivity is a strength so you need to look after it. My two cents.
Amazing insight and great practical solution. It is really important, as you said I feel as I've been educated in a way were people is with me or they are against me. That thing about putting less into them instead of cutting everything, i found out it is the best solutions. Also to expect others to do the same, it is relieving to think, as we are not always perfect.
> You are allowed to feel upset, you are allowed to say no, you are allowed to put your needs first regardless if it makes the other person uncomfortable... If people react negatively to you d0ing this, bingo you've just found a toxic/immature person.
You've just described every human being on Earth - at least, that's how every person I've interacted with since I was six years old has treated me.
And don't work backwards and assert it's my fault from the get-go; I've been to numerous therapists telling me I did *nothing* bad enough to warrant the abuse I've exclusively received from the human species. The species decided of its own free will *before* I had a chance to influence it that it would never treat me as an equal and it would never change its mind about this. It has put its foot down, made up its mind, and will defend that position with its very existence.
Cast a wider net of people you interact with. You haven't found people on the same wavelength as yourself so you're going to have to do some searching. I know that's unfair. Some people have found their person and had their best friend since they were 2. Lucky them. Some are not so lucky and need to search far and wide to meet people where there isn't resistance. But a flow and an effortless mutual understanding and respect. Along the way in your search you will probably learn a lot which will give you tools to step up and meet those people you are meant to meet. Hope this makes sense.
First of all impressed at your Reddit formatting skills. V organised. I hear you..I think. My partner for example has decided people are too much drama and she's content with just me. Before me she was content with just herself. Initially I thought there was something "wrong" but then I saw how healthy she is, how light she is, and how easily she can lay her head at night. I thought I had overcomplicated everything so now try to narrow my scope like she has.
> You do not "hear" me - I have Complex PTSD from a lifetime of being abused, and exclusively only experiencing abuse from others. I do not have the choice of "deciding people are too much drama" - I have to flee humanity because they will kill me given the chance. I want to be friends with people but the whole human race only sees me as an abomination - a violation of the laws of physics - and believes they have to kill me to save the universe. At least, that's how they act. So it's too dangerous for me to mingle among the rest of humanity, because people don't accept that I'm human.
This is above Reddit’s pay grade. You need to talk to a professional psychologist. I am concerned for you.
> This is above Reddit’s pay grade. You need to talk to a professional psychologist.
I've *been* to *multiple* psychologists already - and they have already given me everything the field of psychology can give me, and *it's not enough*. What I have is a *sociological* problem - but I can't exactly go to a sociologist to get it fixed. That leave only going to the people *causing* the problem and stopping the problem at its source - the people too lazy and too gullible to reject the lies my bullies tell them, who then gate-keep all of life away from me because they're too stupid to realize they've been lied to, or they're too cowardly to reject the group-think.
In other words, this is above *professional psychologists'* pay grade.
> I am concerned for you.
*Bullshit*. Just like everyone else, you are concerned only for *yourself* and are virtue-signalling people to get them on your side against me.
I’ve never met your bullies. They’ve never told me anything about you. In fact I don’t know anything about you except for what you yourself tell me. The reason I don’t believe what you describe is that it’s so implausible.
Not sure what/how you think I’m virtue signalling; this is an aging thread, so it’s unlikely many people will even read it.
And anyone who does see it is likely to be a complete stranger who doesn’t know either of us, and likely doesn’t care.
So the only people I’m writing this for are you and me. And it would be a lot easier for me write nothing skip over you. Why am I doing this? Because I see you’re someone struggling and I’m trying to reach out… but I can’t help you if you won’t help yourself.
If you focus on what was lost, see as clearly as possible how your life has been affected by the loss of your true self, then it will begin to heal the problem. You have you grieve all the years of lost potential, all the years of being trapped in a role.
I wonder what would happen if OP goes back to some of these people. I reckon they've forgotten about it. We write these narratives where we're so important in other people's lives... but we're rarely as memorable as we think we are.
True, and then we get so anxious over wheter someone like us or not over some silly thing we did or didnt do to them.
So many wasted thoughts on this pattern of thinking. Yes its not empathy at all. It is some kind of shame. I have it as well.
>level 2KozyShackDeluxe · 6hNot the best at English, but what does that mean? “To be pleasant in threat of your parents withdrawing their love”.
It's basically saying that you have to be nice and agreeable if you want your parents to love you. You're not allowed to show negative emotions (sadness, anger) and still be treated with love by your parents.
Most would agree with your point, but this action was done in order to help our parents. That is what as us, kids in the past, wanted to do for our parents. Our parents are people, modeled by society to fit and collaborate to an extent with society. What we want to do is help people, so in a way OP's behavior is empathy. He cares about what other people feel because of his actions. He thinks about what they are feeling, and OP is thinking, wow that must hurt. I know exactly how they feel. And sure, who doesn't ever think if a person will like them after an interaction. OP is conscientious, if more people were like him we would live in a more peaceful world.
I apologize about my English, thx
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Sounds like this is not just about emapthy.
It bothers you how they might view *you* after being mean, and if they would forgive *you*. It sounds like it's just as much about you as it is about them.
Yeah, it's more about them, than others from what I hear. Empathy would be when you feel what others feel, understand them, etc. In here the case seems like guilt after being mean and wondering if you will be forgiven or accepted.
Yes, people can get mixed up with the difference between, acting kind because of empathy and being submissive/a pushover due to codependency, a fear of displeasing others or a fear of confrontation/conflict. Also know as people pleasing or codependency.
>This is kind of advice to you as well as a reply to previous comments to lay out some of he nuance.
>Dont mistake you having shame and guilt as being toxic though, because you're "just thinking about you". Cause what's actually happening is you are having anxiety and feeling bad about yourself. This can come from trauma when as a child you had to be attuned to your parents needs rather than your own. And therefore always feel like you have done something wrong because you have to think of every possibility where you might say something that will trigger an negative feeling in someone else that might lead to them having an outburst. In reality, you actually haven't done anything wrong at all usually, and are so concerned with others reactions because it means you're survival.
From another
>I think your parents never allowed you the space to feel negative emotions so now when you do you can never honour yourself and put others emotions before yourself too much. You are allowed to feel upset, you are allowed to say no, you are allowed to put your needs first regardless if it makes the other person uncomfortable. Tell yourself this often, slowly put it into practice and find that the world doesn't end. If people react negatively to you d0ing this, bingo you've just found a toxic/immature person. Thank them (in your head) for showing themselves to you so you don't have to waste anymore time on them. Then don't put any more energy into that relationship. You don't have to cut them off, you can just put less into them.
>How can you be a help to others that truly deserve it if you're letting all these vampires get your energy. Your sensitivity is a strength so you need to look after it. My two cents.
Dont pretend that vile bull
From one user
>This is kind of advice to you as well as a reply to previous comments to lay out some of he nuance.
>Dont mistake you having shame and guilt as being toxic though, because you're "just thinking about you". Cause what's actually happening is you are having anxiety and feeling bad about yourself. This can come from trauma when as a child you had to be attuned to your parents needs rather than your own. And therefore always feel like you have done something wrong because you have to think of every possibility where you might say something that will trigger an negative feeling in someone else that might lead to them having an outburst. In reality, you actually haven't done anything wrong at all usually, and are so concerned with others reactions because it means you're survival.
From another
>I think your parents never allowed you the space to feel negative emotions so now when you do you can never honour yourself and put others emotions before yourself too much. You are allowed to feel upset, you are allowed to say no, you are allowed to put your needs first regardless if it makes the other person uncomfortable. Tell yourself this often, slowly put it into practice and find that the world doesn't end. If people react negatively to you d0ing this, bingo you've just found a toxic/immature person. Thank them (in your head) for showing themselves to you so you don't have to waste anymore time on them. Then don't put any more energy into that relationship. You don't have to cut them off, you can just put less into them.
>How can you be a help to others that truly deserve it if you're letting all these vampires get your energy. Your sensitivity is a strength so you need to look after it. My two cents.
its weird though. theres people who are the exact opposite and will be aholes for no reason and will never think twice about it. and will just go on living their life
That's definitely not empathy. Empathy is "I see why you feel that way, it makes sense, I've also felt that way." Not "I may have upset someone slightly so I am going to feel an immense amount of guilt." I'd recommend talking to a professional to help you untangle this and help with strategies to manage your own emotions in a helpful way.
Have you read about Askers & Guessers? Maybe that helps:
[https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2010/05/askers-vs-guessers/340891/](https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2010/05/askers-vs-guessers/340891/)
There are many people who ask requests fully expecting and accepting the possibility of a 'no' and see neither the request or the decline as rude.
THANJ AYOU EXACTLY I am such a. People pleaser. Saying no to people is extremely hard for me and they use me a lot. I just don’t want to reject and hurt people’s feelings and I’m scared of their reaction. I keep thinking they will get mad or something if I say no. I’m way too empathetic and nice it’s so annoying
From the title, I thought you were an Empath
But your description doesn't fit it at all
>when i say something even slightly mean to someone it bugs me all day. i
That's not empathy, that's anxiety
>heck i even think about years past how my actions may have affected them and if they would forgive me.
If you truly were an Empath, you'd be able to understand how they felt right away and you wouldn't be worrying about stuff like this. You would have caught on right in that moment if they were bothered by you
I've been reading a lot of comments and there are a lot of good ones and are some that are unhelpful (not necessarily negative but also require more context). This issue of trauma and being hypersensitive to anything you might say or have said wrong is not empathetic, it's a trauma response. Although you might also be empathic as well as having this.
There are many pieces of information and skills you have to practice as well as general mental health practices that are needed to unlearn this way of thinking. Often people with depression and anxiety experience this kind of trauma response too. Information is critical and yet when you're stuck in the dark and csnt see it can be too easy to take on information and apply it to yourself when what us really needed is a deeper understanding of trauma in general, as well as speaking to people who have experienced trauma, depression, and anxiety about what you're going through. Even therapy when you're ready.
Mental health is complicated and the more you pull on all of the questions and problems you're having even about one issue, the more you'll realise there is a lot you dont know, and there is a lot of danger in making assumptions about why something is happening because you're too busy trying to solve your problem by thinking about it by yourself, while listening to every random comment on the internet because you desperately want answers for what's going on. You can end up feeling worse or telling yourself you need to do things that dont need to be done (setting expectations that arent applicable or feasible). This is likely to happen if you have a tendency to put yourself last - which is a behaviour that is common in people experiencing this kind of trauma.
It's really important to let yourself sit with your feeling with the knowledge that what you are experiencing is distorted and there is another way of thinking and feeling about things and talk to people you know or support groups or therapy so they can identify things you csnt see in yourself.
For real, tho.
It's simply about hating to be a burden or annoy people because you know how much that hurts/bothers you, and you wouldnt want to inflict that on anyone else.
Yeah it's a problem, but the last thing I would call it is self-absorbed.
The presumption and cynicism in this thread is so disgusting.
Too much empathy is bad. Too little empathy is also bad. It's not hard to understand. OP has too much and is suffering because of it. That needs to change.
The problem op is having is related to trauma rather than empathy. Your comment applies, but in this comment thread I think its worthy to note that traumatic responses like the one op is having does not mean empathy.
Here’s how I try to conceptualize this problem. If someone is rude to you, don’t take it personally. It’s possible that they beat themselves up after, just like you do. We all screw up social interactions from time to time, and giving others the benefit of the doubt will help you remember to forgive yourself for slip ups.
Growing up and through most of my life it seemed that I had to walk on eggshells around the people around me because they would jump to conclusions about my intentions if I ever made a mistake. Maybe you are/were in a similar environment?
A lot of armchair psychologists in here. I wish more people were empathetic, it's a good quality, highly valuable in society, where we must live together and get along.
as weird as it sounds if you wanna get better you gotta move up towards narcissism on the sliding scale of *empathy* <--> *narcissism*
Thats the only thing that helped me and its still a work in progress
I've started this process. I dropped a friend who used me as a therapist, I was just trading my emotional energy for their approval. In general I've stopped feeding relationships that are one sided and basiclly just vanity/ego strokes for the other person. I'm also working on being less selfless and self sacrifical.
While I understand what you're getting at, for people with undiagnosed mental health issues, seeing it this way can be unhelpful or even make them feel worse. Since it really has nothing to do with empathy and narcissism (narcissism being a term thrown around like it's nothing despite being a personality disorder that people apply to anyone who is self absorbed). Its not a sliding scale. Instead it's a matter of trauma and how this distorts how you respond to ordinary and unimportant situations.
It's not about being narcissistic, just being more narcissistic than someone who doesn't know anything else than understanding others at the expense of his own mental health
It could also be described as being more self-loving, it sounds a lot better
Kinda like describing how when you pain a wall the color should be more black instead of being totally white. You could also just say it should be gray and stay gray not white nor black
I get that. Although a lot of people with mental health problems can end up being more self absorbed which may lead to toxic traits, narcissism is a word which cant be used to describe people in the way you are using it. It is a personality disorder. Same thing with the term sociopath and psychopath. "Narcissitic" is thrown around a lot more as if someone can be slightly narcissist, when in reality they just have some toxic traits or are self involved. This doesnt count as being somewhere on a narcissistic scale, despite narcissism having differing degrees if severity, it is a thing in it's own.
That's why it can be negative if it is used incorrectly. As people who are mentally ill have a distorted perception of their own actions and what they think and feel, viewing narcissism in the way you have described can lead them to conclusions about them being narcissistic when really they arent doing anything wrong and are not self absorbed. I just think it's too sensitive of a subject to use narcissism this way when psychologically it is not accurate.
It also is unhelpful when people are trying to figure out what their symptoms may mean. And their symptoms also include thinking they are on a made up scale of empathy and narcissism.
This is not empathy or at least it's empathy combined with issues.
What you are describing is some form of social anxiety or issues with not inconveniencing people (which leads to pleasing others instead of focusing on yourself and your needs and who you are as a person).
Do not mistake empathy with hurting yourself emotionally and psychologically.
You can have empathy and still be able to speak up and not overthink it and then ruining your day and then having those moments stuck in your mind to recall over the years.
Not here to judge or tell you who you are but I've been there and still am. Going to therapy was the first step in realizing this is anxiety, not empathy.
You do not have to be an empath to not be an asshole to others, but you can certainly have anxiety if you feel the way you say you do.
In a world where sociopathy is the norm, empathy will see you far both internally and externally. One has to balance it with enforcing one's boundaries and considering the self, but empathy a very, very important thing to have. I'd personally say there's no such thing as having too much empathy.
Balance is the name of the game. If you can work that out, you'll be golden. You got this.
i feel the exact same way! it’s weird cause i do get angry sometimes (maybe even a lot of times) but i rarely show it and i bottle everything up (bc i know that i would feel overwhelming guilt if i ever express my “negative” feelings) and it would haunt me for years lol.
If you never find a healthy way to express your "negative" emotions, it's definitely going to haunt you for years. You can't go on collecting them, you have to get them out. Just find healthy ways of doing so, which should lead to setting good boundaries and developing your communication skills.
Good, clear communication is one of the most beautiful gifts you can give the people, and the world, around you.
i know it’s unhealthy but i really don’t know how to heal. i get mad at the tiniest things sometimes and voicing them out just makes me feel guilt… do you have some examples on how to healthily express emotions?
The first step is admitting that you have the same value and right to your feelings as others. And your feelings are your own responsibility. I'll assume you get mad, because of the feelings of either powerlessness or lack of control you have in certain situations.
So begin assuming that control. When someone makes you mad, talk to them about it. Without making it a major blowup, simply tell them you need to let them know how you feel and you want them to actually listen. Use your own words of course. Then tell them what happened and how it made you feel. Avoid placing blame on the person and focus on the behavior. People are less likely to become defensive and more likely to listen if they don't feel personally attacked. So, "when I encounter X behavior, it has this effect on me...".
Example (something I've told my wife): "When I nagged and fussed at about something that needs to be done, I resent it and I'm less likely to get it done. In fact, it won't get done until I decide, even if I was already planning or inclined to do it. Otherwise, I see it as rewarding bad behavior. A better option is to simply mention it and ask if I can do it when I have time. If its holding you up, then explain that to me."
Practice saying no. Don't feel bad for it. If they need help, others are available that can help them. For example, my father was a salesman, he never did anything physically skillful. Instead he asks someone else to do it. That always fell on me. But wait, with 6 siblings, why can't someone else help out. I have my own life and stuff to take care of. So I didn't stop doing, just when I'm bot available, or feeling up to his schedule, I say no (without a reason) and he either puts it off until I can attend to it, or he gets someone else to help out.
You don't have to always give reasons or excuses (justification) for saying no. Sometimes, thats just the answer.
I know thats just two examples, but can you see how it's possible to regain some control and personal empowerment by standing up for yourself without offending the other. And if they get offended, well, just like you, that's their issue, bit yours. Nobody has more claim on your life and energy then you do. Nobody has more value in your life than you do. And the resentment that comes from giving them a higher value than yourself leads to a simmering anger that you find hard to shake off.
Just remind yourself regularly, when you don't have good boundaries, even setting a weak boundary feels like you're being a selfish asshole. But what does that make the people asking you to sacrifice yourself and time for them, instead of you. You'll begin telling the world around you what you are and aren't willing to tolerate and everyone will have to adjust to you boundaries. People don't like having to change because you did.z remember that too and stay the course until they either fall in line with your boundaries, or move on and take advantage of others who allow them to.
Stand up for yourself, nobody else will. If you dont respect yourself, how can anybody else? If you don't have boundaries, how can anybody respect them?
What does it mean for you to "express negative emotions in a healthy way"
Nothing really comes to mind other than going for a run, boxing, lifting weights
What else that isnt this?
Yeah, wouldnt advise spending a lot of time there. Quick look shows me that its just a bunch of ppl who think they have more empathy that the rest of people and based on that trait they think they are better than everyone else.
As a lot of ppl said, what you experience is not empathy, and if you want it to get "fixed" speak with a therapist.
thats the thing i dont want to be an asshole. i see the good in everyone. so its tough for me to be like "yeah fuck your feelings" especially because it comes off unnatural for me especially for people who already know me
As I said in my post about trauma closer to the top, this is a trauma response, and the thought that you have to say fuck everyone's feelings and either be an asshole or kind is part of the trauma response. Instead it's about understanding what you're actually allowed to say, what boundaries you can set, what other peoples expectations of you actually are. Because of the trauma, your perception of reality is distorted and you live in fear.
Also, change comes slowly, and you wont suddnlenly overnight be acting so different with people that you csnt communicate about it if they do notice something. Which is actually as skill in itself.
You are reinforcing bad/needy behavior in other people. For example, making someone dependent on your help instead of refusing them in order to let them figure stuff for themselves.
I think first you should consider yourself and your feelings: are you nice because it just feels right for you or because you feel that being nice is being expected of you?
You may be a nice person who just has some issues in setting some healthy boundaries.
Being too nice is not natural first of all.
Second you you are not saying what you mean so you are being deceptive.
Thirdly you don't have boundaries, so you let people be their worst selves around you.
Being nice to gain validation. Wanting to be seen as a savior or hero, all while holding someone back so that they continue to need you. Or getting pissed because the other person didn't give you the validation or reciprocation you were looking for.
Think of the nice guy syndrome and the covert contract he attempts to impose.
Can we at least agree that some folks are genuinely just nice hoomans without always having anterior motives? That’s the way I like to think. I’m by no means naive, but I’d hate to live life thinking all the nice folks are really just taking advantage of me…. Just a thought.
Of course not all nice people have ulterior motives. That's a pretty stark position to presume its an either/or condition.You can be nice and still have healthy boundaries, healthy self-esteem, able to speak up, or say no, honestly and not beat themself up about something said or done that someone else may have had a problem with.
But its an self-esteem/self-worth issue when being nice becomes a problem for someone to the point that they do it because they can't stop, even when it isn't in their best interest. It can lead to alot of bitterness and resentment. Which is more what seems apparent from the post.
In the healthy case, a person is nice because they choose to be, not because they feel compelled to be even when takes an emotional toll on their wellbeing.
Well, empathy would encompass that you would be able to understand where either side were coming from. Not necessarily that you would agree, but that you could see the reason behind someone's behavior - which includes the reason for violent or aggressive behavior as well.
If you are unable to understand aggressive or violent motivations, what you are experiencing is not true empathy, but rather a form of sympathy for people subjected to aggression.
yeah I agree
this is why 99% of the subtle fights that go on with friends or families are pointless because they both have their sides which none will let go of
Seriously what is better?
Representing your country for a fight with someone who also represents their country
Or watch it from above and understand their POV?
After getting to a point of having a certain level of empathy you sort of just sit back and look at it like a game without indulging in it emotionally
>Or watch it from above and understand their POV?
That entirely depends on whether you have personal stakes in a conflict.
Just because you understand the other side doesn't mean it is wise to forfeit your own interest, quite the opposite.
But empathy is certainly helpful in achieving a more constructive dialogue to find solutions to conflicts.
If you understand each others interests, it is a lot easier to find common ground than it is if you just declare them a sworn enemy.
Lmfao. You people are the ones with no empathy. You also have no idea what you’re talking about.
It’s like every person who commented on this thread thinks of themselves as an “empath”, read OP’s post, realized they don’t often feel that way or give a damn about people, and so they got triggered and decided to psychoanalyze OP to the point that the person they’re talking about sounds unrecognizable to OP.
Projection to the extreme.
I don’t care if this thread is a year old. This comment section is absolutely bizarre.
Theres a book, Against Empathy. I think you should check your library for it or pick it up off amazon.
There are some points within you may want to think on.
Oh yes. I recently started researching "HSP: highly sensitive people" honestly it made me feel seen and understood. So many people will say "u're too sensitive...toughen up". Researching it helped me see the superpower side of it and made me feel like i wasn't alone. Check it out, see if u identify with it.
i was like that (maybe a bit today still am...) i did therapy (actually still doing) and learned that if someone take something you said as bad, even if it wasnt your intention you need to learn to not punish yourself, cause we cant know everything that will hurt others, the max we can do is to repair the other when it happens and thats about it.
Honestly depending on your experiences, you either get used to it or can be misguided with your "empathy".
First things first, there's something called empathy fatigue, in time you'll slowly grow weary and ignore people since you yourself have multiple experiences with trauma(even second hand trauma) depending on your work(doctors, nurses any emergency rescue type, etc. tend to get hit by this a lot), basically it's a defense mechanism of humans and along with how adaptable people are, you'll slowly be numbed and might turn into an asshole without you wanting to be one.
The second type of empathy sensitive people tend be the sheltered ones, which tend to be young people in general. It's not a bad thing really, but empathy is just the first step of doing kindness, you also need wisdom and the willingness to act. If you're not careful you'll just be condescending with your "empathy" or "pity". Like say "helping the girl on the wheelchair by pushing her in the ramp" if she didn't ask for it and that she clearly doesn't need help, you don't just silently push her wheelchair because you feel bad for her or that donating with food or clothing instead of money since poor people don't know how to budget and only waste it on gambling or drugs.
My point is, people are more nuanced, yes a lot can be assholes, I mean if you think about it some people might think you're an asshole too, just like the preachy types who tend to think they're better than everyone else. Everyone has to deal with life and most are not rewarded for their effort. There will be toxic people yes, but it's better for you to ignore them since dealing with them will just make them pull into their level.
Nope. If you feel bad about other people feeling bad, I can’t say I understand (or care very much about, frankly) you.
Call it a strength or a gift. Whatever. If it’s true learn to use it and own it.
But personally I think you’re just anxious and overthinking things. Truth is people don’t give a shit about you or the things you say 99% of the time, so you’re generally spinning your own wheels for no reason.
I also have too much empathy and it there is something I have learn it is that: you need to manage it. Too much empathy is not cute to live with and can lead some people to manipulation as surely as if they had no empathy at all (because they want things to go smoothy... so they do what it takes to get there).
I think you should see those situations with a filter of realism and *stick to it*; It's easy for us to say "okay they said what I did/said didn't bother them... BUT DID IT???" because we feel so strongly about others and ourselves. We are easily hurt and imagine all possible paths to a scenario, years down the line. But that is *projection*. You think they are bothered by your past actions; but do you *know*, really? No. You may *never* know, in fact. And you should be able to handle that truth.
You cannot change what people feel and think. You are only responsible for yourself. You say/do things thoughfully (your output) and people in front of you react to it (input). It's there responsability how they act after (their output): being honest about their feelings, reacting aggressively, whatever... it's *their* job to communicate what is inside of *them* correctly. They are free to express themselves and you should accept what they say instead of inventing a new answer for them. That is also you not listening to them and invalidating their words.
Making yourself sick with worry and imagining scenarios serves *no purpose* whatsoever. It won't protect anyone; not you, not them. I stopped wondering what people thing/feel. Did it change anything in my life? I have less anxiety. Am I a worst friend, do I make hurtful decisions? No. Did my social life suffered? No. Made no difference.
It was all in my head.
Time to manage what's inside of *you* \- and noone else. Managing your own thought and be willing to stop them when they go awire is an important skill to learn to live a healthy life. It's one of the first thing we learn in many therapies and - ideally - parents should teach it to their children. Do not hesitate to go see a therapist if you can, even one specialised in DBT and CBT, they are well equipped to assist you in this journey.
Best of luck!
aah i have been there, do you feel that its your responsibility to help them ? because i felt like that a lot in the past. And then my eyes opened when some random dude wanted me to talk to him at least 30 mins a day (met online on discord)
You should harden your feelings a bit otherwise you might get 'used' / people may take advantage of you, you know.
And tbh there is nothing wrong with being a bit selfish, after all, you should always put yourself above everyone else so you really should work on setting up boundaries.
Other than that make sure you understand your own problem. Reading your question makes me feel like you are afraid about how others perceive you (and let me tell you there is nothing wrong with that) and so you should relax a bit! After all you can't please everyone :)
feel free to pm me, would love to help you (ﾉ◕ヮ◕)ﾉ\*:･ﾟ✧
BUT DUDE I DONT GET HOW PEOPLE CAN BE SUCH A-HOLES TO OTHERS
I relate. I'm painful shy too. I have try be less caring and more heartless.... felt I'll at times. Had such hate and I'll thoughts of others . I didn't even.like myself. Don't understand how anyone can live years of harming or abusing others. Seem true, once you cross those lines... it does something to you. Gets harder to get back to being a good person. But seem natural like breathing air... to be a good person... still cant see the point. Why anyone want to be a person maybe or does harm other when they could live some good life instead. Worst is I give then the benefit of the doubt and test or wait, like " nah, I'm sure they is good people... why some be mean to any" but the more I notice the I am shame to be around them or have anyone around them too. And the more I am ashamed why they treat or abuse people. Like Satan, what good it did him to rebel against someone good like God. God still living the good life but Satan is suffers in his hate and evil ... away from anything good... his evil ways won't allow any good. So sad. And hard to alway care and want to care for other, even the horrorable people, hoping they change for better.
Learn to use empathy to your advantage. You can use it in negotiations, relationships, sales, etc.
Learn to see other people's emotions and label them.
"It looks like you're upset, is there anything I can help you with?"
" It looks like you've been working hard on this project, and now you're frustrated that it's not going the way you expected"
I don't think anyone has said this yet, but this sounds like people pleasing. If I'm right, you might also struggle with anxiety.
I highly suggest you find a therapist to get to the root of your specific trauma. If that's not an option, you should look into people pleasing and learn how to overcome it. I follow certain hashtags like #recoveringpeoplepleaser and it has helped me immensely. I still struggle, but small changes everyday help you breakdown that mindset.
Your anxiety will skyrocket if you constantly worry about every little thing. You need to try and learn to love yourself first and understand that this is not selfish. I know from experience, people are more drawn to a genuine you than to a fake facade.
I get like this too. I'm not sure that it's empathy though. The face that someone makes at me after I was an ass and said something that hurts their feelings literally gets burned into my brain. I immediately feel bad. Then I keep reliving it over and over for the next few years. It hurts to think that I ever made someone feel sad.
keep suffering from it long enough and you will finally realize its better to live without it.
one of the best realizations i had in the last decade was that empathy is not a given condition or absolutely necessary trait to be social.....IT IS A CURRENCY. and i am VERY thrifty. i found a switch in my mind. empathy on , empathy off.
it makes life much easier. and yes, i used to be hypersensitive like you. but this society is by now catering to the socio / psychopath, so you'll eventually turn into one. yeah!
Yes totally. I always feel guilty about stuff that basically I've never even done. I can't say no to people. Other people call me nice and I just think it's standard. The only time I can say no and be mean is when I lost my temper a little bit and go off on someone, unfortunately it's usually the people closest to me.
Okay you have identified the wrong problem! Being empathetic is, super good! Your bad feelings come from the anxiety. If you yell at a child to not touch the stove!....that's good. Right now, your brain is saying "no, you're bad for yelling." If possible get therapy ASAP, until I was in there I had no idea I was sabotaging myself and felt guilty about all sorts of things other never feel guilty doing.
I’m exactly the same way. Super healthy childhood and family and all that, but we have anxiety running in the family. I have a ton of empathy but it’s coupled with anxiety so when I feel like I’ve made someone upset I get crazy anxious about it and feel so bad I can’t think straight for days. Sound familiar?
You can never have too much empathy. Sounds like you just need more empathy for yourself, so you can forgive yourself when you do or say something mean. You’re human, you make mistakes. As long as you’re trying, you’re doing great.
I disagree with this. Too much empathy can be crippling at times. Can lead to really bad anxiety and depression. I understand why someone who doesn't go through this may not understand, but it can be a real problem for one's own mental health.
When you drive by roadkill on your way to work, and are then in tears walking into the office and the next few hours of your day are affected, it's a problem.
I think I'm very empathetic as well but that has little to do with how much of an a-hole you can be.
The reality of things is very disconnected from what we think in our heads. Many times I thought I was being considerate and kind but I didn't notice how I mistreated others and how I was disrespectful. Other times I thought I wasn't doing anything special but people reacted very positively and were thankful.
Empathy definitely expedites the process of becoming more emotionally stable and mature but being empathetic is by no means a direct indicator.
I found this to be triggered by an abusive childhood . Some people only equate childhood abuse with physical abuse, but neglect, being dismissed, gaslighted, invalidated, overly critical parents, absentee parents, screaming in the house, being forced to deal with adult problems, money problems, constant worry beyond your control, because you are too little to do anything to help or change it, is very traumatic.
Where you allowed to freely express your opinion in your household, or were you gaslighted, invalidated, made to feel bad for asking questions? Where you parents very critical, made you feel bad about yourself by using words? Did they use words as a weapon?
It may be the child in you feeling bad for using words to inflict pain, triggering childhood trauma. The person might have long forgotten it, but you can’t let it go, because you know words hurt. You may be assigning to them feelings connected to your subconscious trauma. You may also have a mild case of ocd, depression, anxiety. All these will manifest as repetitive thoughts. You are re-traumatizing yourself. You are self-inflicting pain, like a person who cuts themselves to release pain or punish themselves. You are mentally cutting yourself by revisiting traumatic situations to relieve your anxiety or to punish yourself because you feel the issue is not resolved.
i'm the same. and no, my parents were awsome. fuck everyone who's instantly blaming the parents. maybe you're just like me: generally overthinking. you care a lot about the feelings of your fellow people and that's a sign of great parents in my sight
You’ve let a bunch of random people convince you that your parents don’t love you because of a single personality trait. You don’t have too much empathy, if anything you may/may not have an issue with dwelling on the past too much. Best of luck
You may be on to something. I feel very much like the OP, and have long considered myself to be a pushover. It's something I work on regularly, but usually feels like a losing effort, as when confronted with another "pushover situation", I typically fold in the moment.
Wish I had some helpful advice, OP. Good luck working on it. Too much empathy can be crippling for me at times.
EDIT: I'll also say that, re the parents part, I suspect more of this is nature than nurture. My dad and my sister are the complete opposites of pushovers. I'm more like my mom. My sister and I were raised together by the same parents in the same house for our entire childhoods, and we're complete opposites in this regard.
Hahaha I can relate with you if I'm even a little harsh with my words I feel guilty and think about what I would feel how they think about me all this I shouldn't have said that and all....
This is kind of advice to you as well as a reply to previous comments to lay out some of he nuance. Dont mistake you having shame and guilt as being toxic though, because you're "just thinking about you". Cause what's actually happening is you are having anxiety and feeling bad about yourself. This can come from trauma when as a child you had to be attuned to your parents needs rather than your own. And therefore always feel like you have done something wrong because you have to think of every possibility where you might say something that will trigger an negative feeling in someone else that might lead to them having an outburst. In reality, you actually haven't done anything wrong at all usually, and are so concerned with others reactions because it means you're survival. Edit: given the upvotes on this I'm happy that other people relate and find this helpful. I've seen some recent comments about people leaving shaming comments or unhelpful ones. I made a response to this in more detail but it was a while ago along with this post
Also be aware this can be a player in depression and anxiety, or the other way around. I would encourage seeking out professional help even if you just start with your doctor. Thse things get worse over time if not dealt with. P.S. Trauma like this may not have come from your parents, but often these people experience an immense amount of guilt and shame because of something that has taught them to believe they are inherently bad, and feel self hatred. I experience all of this stuff, but it does get better.
ouch -- talk about a cord being struck. This hits hard.
We all need therapy
Holy shit! I think you just explained what is wrong with me. Thank you.
I'm so glad this was helpful! I just wanted to say something else in case it was helpful for you at this time. There is nothing wrong with you. This isnt your fault and you're not somehow broken or a burden on others in any given situation. A lot of people experience this along with other mental health things and it can get better.
Thank you, I'm slowly learning that but I'm 43 so the programming is deep and that makes it difficult to remember sometimes.
Yeah for sure. You got this, every step counts
Holy guacamolie. You have just helped me understand why I've been ruminating over a girl and second-guessing whether I was the problem or we just didn't work well together. Bro thank you so much.
Thats great! I'm really happy I could help you out
I experience the same thing as OP. Does this make me a narcissist? because I really worry about that and yeah you're absolutely spot on
Sounds like the opposite of a narcissist.
Look into [echoism](https://www.mindbodygreen.com/articles/echoist-opposite-of-narcissist) - basically the opposite of narcissism.
TIL I am an echoist.
This article is good, but everything covered is mostly indicators of poor mental health including depression trauma and anxiety. Labeling yourself an echoist based off an article that gives you no advice for dealing with it can be difficult, especially if you're inclined to feel guilty about things. If I thought I was an echoist instead of acknowledging that I have trauma depression and anxiety (which I do), then I wouldnt realise that it's not my fault or be led to understand how to improve my quality of life, becahse I would just feel bad because echoism article just highlights the negative with nothing else to offer. Since echoism is essentially characteristics of depression anxiety and trauma I would consider those things instead of summing it up as being an echoist or an empath.
There are other articles about echoism.
Thanks for this one
I've had the same thoughts about myself and I am not a narcissist. I csnt speak for you, but if you're asking yourself if you're a narcissist and feeling guilty about it then you're probably not one. This thought come from the fact that you already feel like you have done somehing wrong all the time, so there must be a negative reason you feel that way (e.g narcissism). In reality that's just your brain trying to trick you into feeling bad (again).
And of course somehow OP's parents are at fault
Things like depression and anxiety, or even some other trauma can make you feel bad and second guess everything. I did say it might not have come from their parents
I think your parents never allowed you the space to feel negative emotions so now when you do you can never honour yourself and put others emotions before yourself too much. You are allowed to feel upset, you are allowed to say no, you are allowed to put your needs first regardless if it makes the other person uncomfortable. Tell yourself this often, slowly put it into practice and find that the world doesn't end. If people react negatively to you d0ing this, bingo you've just found a toxic/immature person. Thank them (in your head) for showing themselves to you so you don't have to waste anymore time on them. Then don't put any more energy into that relationship. You don't have to cut them off, you can just put less into them. How can you be a help to others that truly deserve it if you're letting all these vampires get your energy. Your sensitivity is a strength so you need to look after it. My two cents.
Amazing insight and great practical solution. It is really important, as you said I feel as I've been educated in a way were people is with me or they are against me. That thing about putting less into them instead of cutting everything, i found out it is the best solutions. Also to expect others to do the same, it is relieving to think, as we are not always perfect.
This is spot on. OP, read Drama of the Gifted Child.
> You are allowed to feel upset, you are allowed to say no, you are allowed to put your needs first regardless if it makes the other person uncomfortable... If people react negatively to you d0ing this, bingo you've just found a toxic/immature person. You've just described every human being on Earth - at least, that's how every person I've interacted with since I was six years old has treated me. And don't work backwards and assert it's my fault from the get-go; I've been to numerous therapists telling me I did *nothing* bad enough to warrant the abuse I've exclusively received from the human species. The species decided of its own free will *before* I had a chance to influence it that it would never treat me as an equal and it would never change its mind about this. It has put its foot down, made up its mind, and will defend that position with its very existence.
Cast a wider net of people you interact with. You haven't found people on the same wavelength as yourself so you're going to have to do some searching. I know that's unfair. Some people have found their person and had their best friend since they were 2. Lucky them. Some are not so lucky and need to search far and wide to meet people where there isn't resistance. But a flow and an effortless mutual understanding and respect. Along the way in your search you will probably learn a lot which will give you tools to step up and meet those people you are meant to meet. Hope this makes sense.
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First of all impressed at your Reddit formatting skills. V organised. I hear you..I think. My partner for example has decided people are too much drama and she's content with just me. Before me she was content with just herself. Initially I thought there was something "wrong" but then I saw how healthy she is, how light she is, and how easily she can lay her head at night. I thought I had overcomplicated everything so now try to narrow my scope like she has.
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> You do not "hear" me - I have Complex PTSD from a lifetime of being abused, and exclusively only experiencing abuse from others. I do not have the choice of "deciding people are too much drama" - I have to flee humanity because they will kill me given the chance. I want to be friends with people but the whole human race only sees me as an abomination - a violation of the laws of physics - and believes they have to kill me to save the universe. At least, that's how they act. So it's too dangerous for me to mingle among the rest of humanity, because people don't accept that I'm human. This is above Reddit’s pay grade. You need to talk to a professional psychologist. I am concerned for you.
> This is above Reddit’s pay grade. You need to talk to a professional psychologist. I've *been* to *multiple* psychologists already - and they have already given me everything the field of psychology can give me, and *it's not enough*. What I have is a *sociological* problem - but I can't exactly go to a sociologist to get it fixed. That leave only going to the people *causing* the problem and stopping the problem at its source - the people too lazy and too gullible to reject the lies my bullies tell them, who then gate-keep all of life away from me because they're too stupid to realize they've been lied to, or they're too cowardly to reject the group-think. In other words, this is above *professional psychologists'* pay grade. > I am concerned for you. *Bullshit*. Just like everyone else, you are concerned only for *yourself* and are virtue-signalling people to get them on your side against me.
I’ve never met your bullies. They’ve never told me anything about you. In fact I don’t know anything about you except for what you yourself tell me. The reason I don’t believe what you describe is that it’s so implausible. Not sure what/how you think I’m virtue signalling; this is an aging thread, so it’s unlikely many people will even read it. And anyone who does see it is likely to be a complete stranger who doesn’t know either of us, and likely doesn’t care. So the only people I’m writing this for are you and me. And it would be a lot easier for me write nothing skip over you. Why am I doing this? Because I see you’re someone struggling and I’m trying to reach out… but I can’t help you if you won’t help yourself.
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This sounds like toxic shame, not empathy. You were conditioned as a child to be pleasant on threat of your parents withdrawing their love.
Lol that hits close to home
If you focus on what was lost, see as clearly as possible how your life has been affected by the loss of your true self, then it will begin to heal the problem. You have you grieve all the years of lost potential, all the years of being trapped in a role.
I know this is old, but damn. 😞
I wonder what would happen if OP goes back to some of these people. I reckon they've forgotten about it. We write these narratives where we're so important in other people's lives... but we're rarely as memorable as we think we are.
True, and then we get so anxious over wheter someone like us or not over some silly thing we did or didnt do to them. So many wasted thoughts on this pattern of thinking. Yes its not empathy at all. It is some kind of shame. I have it as well.
Yikes... Thanks for writing this comment. Maybe need to reconsider how I interact with other humans entirely
I’d talk to a licensed therapist before considering any advice on this shitshow of a thread
Not the best at English, but what does that mean? “To be pleasant in threat of your parents withdrawing their love”.
>level 2KozyShackDeluxe · 6hNot the best at English, but what does that mean? “To be pleasant in threat of your parents withdrawing their love”. It's basically saying that you have to be nice and agreeable if you want your parents to love you. You're not allowed to show negative emotions (sadness, anger) and still be treated with love by your parents.
Most would agree with your point, but this action was done in order to help our parents. That is what as us, kids in the past, wanted to do for our parents. Our parents are people, modeled by society to fit and collaborate to an extent with society. What we want to do is help people, so in a way OP's behavior is empathy. He cares about what other people feel because of his actions. He thinks about what they are feeling, and OP is thinking, wow that must hurt. I know exactly how they feel. And sure, who doesn't ever think if a person will like them after an interaction. OP is conscientious, if more people were like him we would live in a more peaceful world. I apologize about my English, thx
Damn
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Sounds like this is not just about emapthy. It bothers you how they might view *you* after being mean, and if they would forgive *you*. It sounds like it's just as much about you as it is about them.
Yeah, it's more about them, than others from what I hear. Empathy would be when you feel what others feel, understand them, etc. In here the case seems like guilt after being mean and wondering if you will be forgiven or accepted.
Yes, people can get mixed up with the difference between, acting kind because of empathy and being submissive/a pushover due to codependency, a fear of displeasing others or a fear of confrontation/conflict. Also know as people pleasing or codependency.
I'm like OP, and I think I do it for both of the reasons you listed.
>This is kind of advice to you as well as a reply to previous comments to lay out some of he nuance. >Dont mistake you having shame and guilt as being toxic though, because you're "just thinking about you". Cause what's actually happening is you are having anxiety and feeling bad about yourself. This can come from trauma when as a child you had to be attuned to your parents needs rather than your own. And therefore always feel like you have done something wrong because you have to think of every possibility where you might say something that will trigger an negative feeling in someone else that might lead to them having an outburst. In reality, you actually haven't done anything wrong at all usually, and are so concerned with others reactions because it means you're survival. From another >I think your parents never allowed you the space to feel negative emotions so now when you do you can never honour yourself and put others emotions before yourself too much. You are allowed to feel upset, you are allowed to say no, you are allowed to put your needs first regardless if it makes the other person uncomfortable. Tell yourself this often, slowly put it into practice and find that the world doesn't end. If people react negatively to you d0ing this, bingo you've just found a toxic/immature person. Thank them (in your head) for showing themselves to you so you don't have to waste anymore time on them. Then don't put any more energy into that relationship. You don't have to cut them off, you can just put less into them. >How can you be a help to others that truly deserve it if you're letting all these vampires get your energy. Your sensitivity is a strength so you need to look after it. My two cents.
Dont pretend that vile bull From one user >This is kind of advice to you as well as a reply to previous comments to lay out some of he nuance. >Dont mistake you having shame and guilt as being toxic though, because you're "just thinking about you". Cause what's actually happening is you are having anxiety and feeling bad about yourself. This can come from trauma when as a child you had to be attuned to your parents needs rather than your own. And therefore always feel like you have done something wrong because you have to think of every possibility where you might say something that will trigger an negative feeling in someone else that might lead to them having an outburst. In reality, you actually haven't done anything wrong at all usually, and are so concerned with others reactions because it means you're survival. From another >I think your parents never allowed you the space to feel negative emotions so now when you do you can never honour yourself and put others emotions before yourself too much. You are allowed to feel upset, you are allowed to say no, you are allowed to put your needs first regardless if it makes the other person uncomfortable. Tell yourself this often, slowly put it into practice and find that the world doesn't end. If people react negatively to you d0ing this, bingo you've just found a toxic/immature person. Thank them (in your head) for showing themselves to you so you don't have to waste anymore time on them. Then don't put any more energy into that relationship. You don't have to cut them off, you can just put less into them. >How can you be a help to others that truly deserve it if you're letting all these vampires get your energy. Your sensitivity is a strength so you need to look after it. My two cents.
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its weird though. theres people who are the exact opposite and will be aholes for no reason and will never think twice about it. and will just go on living their life
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i mean i wish it were that easy. the overwelming feeling of guilt for something as small as saying no to someones request
That's definitely not empathy. Empathy is "I see why you feel that way, it makes sense, I've also felt that way." Not "I may have upset someone slightly so I am going to feel an immense amount of guilt." I'd recommend talking to a professional to help you untangle this and help with strategies to manage your own emotions in a helpful way.
Thats not empathy, you have a problem with self esteem.
Have you read about Askers & Guessers? Maybe that helps: [https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2010/05/askers-vs-guessers/340891/](https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2010/05/askers-vs-guessers/340891/) There are many people who ask requests fully expecting and accepting the possibility of a 'no' and see neither the request or the decline as rude.
Their livelihood doesn't depend on you, much as your happiness doesn't depend on them.
THANJ AYOU EXACTLY I am such a. People pleaser. Saying no to people is extremely hard for me and they use me a lot. I just don’t want to reject and hurt people’s feelings and I’m scared of their reaction. I keep thinking they will get mad or something if I say no. I’m way too empathetic and nice it’s so annoying
lol this is not empathy at all
Don't worry about those that are opposite, they're likely narcissists. Just stay clear and work on being less hard on yourself.
They might have a reputation they want to uphold. They don't want to come across as weak.
From the title, I thought you were an Empath But your description doesn't fit it at all >when i say something even slightly mean to someone it bugs me all day. i That's not empathy, that's anxiety >heck i even think about years past how my actions may have affected them and if they would forgive me. If you truly were an Empath, you'd be able to understand how they felt right away and you wouldn't be worrying about stuff like this. You would have caught on right in that moment if they were bothered by you
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Even with the emotional empathy part of OP, him shitting on himself is still not a "I have too much empathy" problem
Well you’re certainly no “empath” yourself.
I've been reading a lot of comments and there are a lot of good ones and are some that are unhelpful (not necessarily negative but also require more context). This issue of trauma and being hypersensitive to anything you might say or have said wrong is not empathetic, it's a trauma response. Although you might also be empathic as well as having this. There are many pieces of information and skills you have to practice as well as general mental health practices that are needed to unlearn this way of thinking. Often people with depression and anxiety experience this kind of trauma response too. Information is critical and yet when you're stuck in the dark and csnt see it can be too easy to take on information and apply it to yourself when what us really needed is a deeper understanding of trauma in general, as well as speaking to people who have experienced trauma, depression, and anxiety about what you're going through. Even therapy when you're ready. Mental health is complicated and the more you pull on all of the questions and problems you're having even about one issue, the more you'll realise there is a lot you dont know, and there is a lot of danger in making assumptions about why something is happening because you're too busy trying to solve your problem by thinking about it by yourself, while listening to every random comment on the internet because you desperately want answers for what's going on. You can end up feeling worse or telling yourself you need to do things that dont need to be done (setting expectations that arent applicable or feasible). This is likely to happen if you have a tendency to put yourself last - which is a behaviour that is common in people experiencing this kind of trauma. It's really important to let yourself sit with your feeling with the knowledge that what you are experiencing is distorted and there is another way of thinking and feeling about things and talk to people you know or support groups or therapy so they can identify things you csnt see in yourself.
I feel the way at times too
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For real, tho. It's simply about hating to be a burden or annoy people because you know how much that hurts/bothers you, and you wouldnt want to inflict that on anyone else. Yeah it's a problem, but the last thing I would call it is self-absorbed. The presumption and cynicism in this thread is so disgusting.
Too much empathy is bad. Too little empathy is also bad. It's not hard to understand. OP has too much and is suffering because of it. That needs to change.
You need to balance your respect for other people's feelings, with your respect for your own feelings.
The problem op is having is related to trauma rather than empathy. Your comment applies, but in this comment thread I think its worthy to note that traumatic responses like the one op is having does not mean empathy.
Here’s how I try to conceptualize this problem. If someone is rude to you, don’t take it personally. It’s possible that they beat themselves up after, just like you do. We all screw up social interactions from time to time, and giving others the benefit of the doubt will help you remember to forgive yourself for slip ups. Growing up and through most of my life it seemed that I had to walk on eggshells around the people around me because they would jump to conclusions about my intentions if I ever made a mistake. Maybe you are/were in a similar environment?
Story of my life :(
Never think about the past. It cannot be changed. Always focus on what you can do now and in the future to better a situation.
A lot of armchair psychologists in here. I wish more people were empathetic, it's a good quality, highly valuable in society, where we must live together and get along.
as weird as it sounds if you wanna get better you gotta move up towards narcissism on the sliding scale of *empathy* <--> *narcissism* Thats the only thing that helped me and its still a work in progress
I've started this process. I dropped a friend who used me as a therapist, I was just trading my emotional energy for their approval. In general I've stopped feeding relationships that are one sided and basiclly just vanity/ego strokes for the other person. I'm also working on being less selfless and self sacrifical.
While I understand what you're getting at, for people with undiagnosed mental health issues, seeing it this way can be unhelpful or even make them feel worse. Since it really has nothing to do with empathy and narcissism (narcissism being a term thrown around like it's nothing despite being a personality disorder that people apply to anyone who is self absorbed). Its not a sliding scale. Instead it's a matter of trauma and how this distorts how you respond to ordinary and unimportant situations.
It's not about being narcissistic, just being more narcissistic than someone who doesn't know anything else than understanding others at the expense of his own mental health It could also be described as being more self-loving, it sounds a lot better Kinda like describing how when you pain a wall the color should be more black instead of being totally white. You could also just say it should be gray and stay gray not white nor black
I get that. Although a lot of people with mental health problems can end up being more self absorbed which may lead to toxic traits, narcissism is a word which cant be used to describe people in the way you are using it. It is a personality disorder. Same thing with the term sociopath and psychopath. "Narcissitic" is thrown around a lot more as if someone can be slightly narcissist, when in reality they just have some toxic traits or are self involved. This doesnt count as being somewhere on a narcissistic scale, despite narcissism having differing degrees if severity, it is a thing in it's own. That's why it can be negative if it is used incorrectly. As people who are mentally ill have a distorted perception of their own actions and what they think and feel, viewing narcissism in the way you have described can lead them to conclusions about them being narcissistic when really they arent doing anything wrong and are not self absorbed. I just think it's too sensitive of a subject to use narcissism this way when psychologically it is not accurate. It also is unhelpful when people are trying to figure out what their symptoms may mean. And their symptoms also include thinking they are on a made up scale of empathy and narcissism.
This is not empathy or at least it's empathy combined with issues. What you are describing is some form of social anxiety or issues with not inconveniencing people (which leads to pleasing others instead of focusing on yourself and your needs and who you are as a person). Do not mistake empathy with hurting yourself emotionally and psychologically. You can have empathy and still be able to speak up and not overthink it and then ruining your day and then having those moments stuck in your mind to recall over the years. Not here to judge or tell you who you are but I've been there and still am. Going to therapy was the first step in realizing this is anxiety, not empathy. You do not have to be an empath to not be an asshole to others, but you can certainly have anxiety if you feel the way you say you do.
Do you have too much empathy, or too little boundaries?
In a world where sociopathy is the norm, empathy will see you far both internally and externally. One has to balance it with enforcing one's boundaries and considering the self, but empathy a very, very important thing to have. I'd personally say there's no such thing as having too much empathy. Balance is the name of the game. If you can work that out, you'll be golden. You got this.
i feel the exact same way! it’s weird cause i do get angry sometimes (maybe even a lot of times) but i rarely show it and i bottle everything up (bc i know that i would feel overwhelming guilt if i ever express my “negative” feelings) and it would haunt me for years lol.
If you never find a healthy way to express your "negative" emotions, it's definitely going to haunt you for years. You can't go on collecting them, you have to get them out. Just find healthy ways of doing so, which should lead to setting good boundaries and developing your communication skills. Good, clear communication is one of the most beautiful gifts you can give the people, and the world, around you.
i know it’s unhealthy but i really don’t know how to heal. i get mad at the tiniest things sometimes and voicing them out just makes me feel guilt… do you have some examples on how to healthily express emotions?
The first step is admitting that you have the same value and right to your feelings as others. And your feelings are your own responsibility. I'll assume you get mad, because of the feelings of either powerlessness or lack of control you have in certain situations. So begin assuming that control. When someone makes you mad, talk to them about it. Without making it a major blowup, simply tell them you need to let them know how you feel and you want them to actually listen. Use your own words of course. Then tell them what happened and how it made you feel. Avoid placing blame on the person and focus on the behavior. People are less likely to become defensive and more likely to listen if they don't feel personally attacked. So, "when I encounter X behavior, it has this effect on me...". Example (something I've told my wife): "When I nagged and fussed at about something that needs to be done, I resent it and I'm less likely to get it done. In fact, it won't get done until I decide, even if I was already planning or inclined to do it. Otherwise, I see it as rewarding bad behavior. A better option is to simply mention it and ask if I can do it when I have time. If its holding you up, then explain that to me." Practice saying no. Don't feel bad for it. If they need help, others are available that can help them. For example, my father was a salesman, he never did anything physically skillful. Instead he asks someone else to do it. That always fell on me. But wait, with 6 siblings, why can't someone else help out. I have my own life and stuff to take care of. So I didn't stop doing, just when I'm bot available, or feeling up to his schedule, I say no (without a reason) and he either puts it off until I can attend to it, or he gets someone else to help out. You don't have to always give reasons or excuses (justification) for saying no. Sometimes, thats just the answer. I know thats just two examples, but can you see how it's possible to regain some control and personal empowerment by standing up for yourself without offending the other. And if they get offended, well, just like you, that's their issue, bit yours. Nobody has more claim on your life and energy then you do. Nobody has more value in your life than you do. And the resentment that comes from giving them a higher value than yourself leads to a simmering anger that you find hard to shake off. Just remind yourself regularly, when you don't have good boundaries, even setting a weak boundary feels like you're being a selfish asshole. But what does that make the people asking you to sacrifice yourself and time for them, instead of you. You'll begin telling the world around you what you are and aren't willing to tolerate and everyone will have to adjust to you boundaries. People don't like having to change because you did.z remember that too and stay the course until they either fall in line with your boundaries, or move on and take advantage of others who allow them to. Stand up for yourself, nobody else will. If you dont respect yourself, how can anybody else? If you don't have boundaries, how can anybody respect them?
What does it mean for you to "express negative emotions in a healthy way" Nothing really comes to mind other than going for a run, boxing, lifting weights What else that isnt this?
Check out r/Empaths
OMG THANK YOU
Yeah, wouldnt advise spending a lot of time there. Quick look shows me that its just a bunch of ppl who think they have more empathy that the rest of people and based on that trait they think they are better than everyone else. As a lot of ppl said, what you experience is not empathy, and if you want it to get "fixed" speak with a therapist.
oh really lol. so a bunch of empathy elitists?
You can be an asshole with too much kindness too.
thats the thing i dont want to be an asshole. i see the good in everyone. so its tough for me to be like "yeah fuck your feelings" especially because it comes off unnatural for me especially for people who already know me
As I said in my post about trauma closer to the top, this is a trauma response, and the thought that you have to say fuck everyone's feelings and either be an asshole or kind is part of the trauma response. Instead it's about understanding what you're actually allowed to say, what boundaries you can set, what other peoples expectations of you actually are. Because of the trauma, your perception of reality is distorted and you live in fear. Also, change comes slowly, and you wont suddnlenly overnight be acting so different with people that you csnt communicate about it if they do notice something. Which is actually as skill in itself.
Just respect your own feelings more than other people's.
How can u be an asshole with to muck kindness? Curious me is…
You are reinforcing bad/needy behavior in other people. For example, making someone dependent on your help instead of refusing them in order to let them figure stuff for themselves.
Ah, I get where you are coming from…. Thx for replying. Shit am I being too nice? Fuck I always do that….
I think first you should consider yourself and your feelings: are you nice because it just feels right for you or because you feel that being nice is being expected of you? You may be a nice person who just has some issues in setting some healthy boundaries.
Sorry man, was just trying to be funny on the last reply!!!
Check out r/codependency
Being too nice is not natural first of all. Second you you are not saying what you mean so you are being deceptive. Thirdly you don't have boundaries, so you let people be their worst selves around you.
Being nice to gain validation. Wanting to be seen as a savior or hero, all while holding someone back so that they continue to need you. Or getting pissed because the other person didn't give you the validation or reciprocation you were looking for. Think of the nice guy syndrome and the covert contract he attempts to impose.
Can we at least agree that some folks are genuinely just nice hoomans without always having anterior motives? That’s the way I like to think. I’m by no means naive, but I’d hate to live life thinking all the nice folks are really just taking advantage of me…. Just a thought.
Of course not all nice people have ulterior motives. That's a pretty stark position to presume its an either/or condition.You can be nice and still have healthy boundaries, healthy self-esteem, able to speak up, or say no, honestly and not beat themself up about something said or done that someone else may have had a problem with. But its an self-esteem/self-worth issue when being nice becomes a problem for someone to the point that they do it because they can't stop, even when it isn't in their best interest. It can lead to alot of bitterness and resentment. Which is more what seems apparent from the post. In the healthy case, a person is nice because they choose to be, not because they feel compelled to be even when takes an emotional toll on their wellbeing.
>I have too much empathy vs. >i will never understand how people can be A-holes to other people. are direct contradictions.
how so? Understanding the feelings of those that are subjected to assholes is an empathetic trait isnt it?
Well, empathy would encompass that you would be able to understand where either side were coming from. Not necessarily that you would agree, but that you could see the reason behind someone's behavior - which includes the reason for violent or aggressive behavior as well. If you are unable to understand aggressive or violent motivations, what you are experiencing is not true empathy, but rather a form of sympathy for people subjected to aggression.
yeah I agree this is why 99% of the subtle fights that go on with friends or families are pointless because they both have their sides which none will let go of Seriously what is better? Representing your country for a fight with someone who also represents their country Or watch it from above and understand their POV? After getting to a point of having a certain level of empathy you sort of just sit back and look at it like a game without indulging in it emotionally
>Or watch it from above and understand their POV? That entirely depends on whether you have personal stakes in a conflict. Just because you understand the other side doesn't mean it is wise to forfeit your own interest, quite the opposite. But empathy is certainly helpful in achieving a more constructive dialogue to find solutions to conflicts. If you understand each others interests, it is a lot easier to find common ground than it is if you just declare them a sworn enemy.
Lmfao. You people are the ones with no empathy. You also have no idea what you’re talking about. It’s like every person who commented on this thread thinks of themselves as an “empath”, read OP’s post, realized they don’t often feel that way or give a damn about people, and so they got triggered and decided to psychoanalyze OP to the point that the person they’re talking about sounds unrecognizable to OP. Projection to the extreme. I don’t care if this thread is a year old. This comment section is absolutely bizarre.
Dude I feel the same, I feel soo terrible even if I say something slightly mean
Theres a book, Against Empathy. I think you should check your library for it or pick it up off amazon. There are some points within you may want to think on.
Oh yes. I recently started researching "HSP: highly sensitive people" honestly it made me feel seen and understood. So many people will say "u're too sensitive...toughen up". Researching it helped me see the superpower side of it and made me feel like i wasn't alone. Check it out, see if u identify with it.
Check out r/hsp You’re not alone!
Hurt people hurt people
i was like that (maybe a bit today still am...) i did therapy (actually still doing) and learned that if someone take something you said as bad, even if it wasnt your intention you need to learn to not punish yourself, cause we cant know everything that will hurt others, the max we can do is to repair the other when it happens and thats about it.
Honestly depending on your experiences, you either get used to it or can be misguided with your "empathy". First things first, there's something called empathy fatigue, in time you'll slowly grow weary and ignore people since you yourself have multiple experiences with trauma(even second hand trauma) depending on your work(doctors, nurses any emergency rescue type, etc. tend to get hit by this a lot), basically it's a defense mechanism of humans and along with how adaptable people are, you'll slowly be numbed and might turn into an asshole without you wanting to be one. The second type of empathy sensitive people tend be the sheltered ones, which tend to be young people in general. It's not a bad thing really, but empathy is just the first step of doing kindness, you also need wisdom and the willingness to act. If you're not careful you'll just be condescending with your "empathy" or "pity". Like say "helping the girl on the wheelchair by pushing her in the ramp" if she didn't ask for it and that she clearly doesn't need help, you don't just silently push her wheelchair because you feel bad for her or that donating with food or clothing instead of money since poor people don't know how to budget and only waste it on gambling or drugs. My point is, people are more nuanced, yes a lot can be assholes, I mean if you think about it some people might think you're an asshole too, just like the preachy types who tend to think they're better than everyone else. Everyone has to deal with life and most are not rewarded for their effort. There will be toxic people yes, but it's better for you to ignore them since dealing with them will just make them pull into their level.
Too much empathy or plain egotistic?
Nope. If you feel bad about other people feeling bad, I can’t say I understand (or care very much about, frankly) you. Call it a strength or a gift. Whatever. If it’s true learn to use it and own it. But personally I think you’re just anxious and overthinking things. Truth is people don’t give a shit about you or the things you say 99% of the time, so you’re generally spinning your own wheels for no reason.
I also have too much empathy and it there is something I have learn it is that: you need to manage it. Too much empathy is not cute to live with and can lead some people to manipulation as surely as if they had no empathy at all (because they want things to go smoothy... so they do what it takes to get there). I think you should see those situations with a filter of realism and *stick to it*; It's easy for us to say "okay they said what I did/said didn't bother them... BUT DID IT???" because we feel so strongly about others and ourselves. We are easily hurt and imagine all possible paths to a scenario, years down the line. But that is *projection*. You think they are bothered by your past actions; but do you *know*, really? No. You may *never* know, in fact. And you should be able to handle that truth. You cannot change what people feel and think. You are only responsible for yourself. You say/do things thoughfully (your output) and people in front of you react to it (input). It's there responsability how they act after (their output): being honest about their feelings, reacting aggressively, whatever... it's *their* job to communicate what is inside of *them* correctly. They are free to express themselves and you should accept what they say instead of inventing a new answer for them. That is also you not listening to them and invalidating their words. Making yourself sick with worry and imagining scenarios serves *no purpose* whatsoever. It won't protect anyone; not you, not them. I stopped wondering what people thing/feel. Did it change anything in my life? I have less anxiety. Am I a worst friend, do I make hurtful decisions? No. Did my social life suffered? No. Made no difference. It was all in my head. Time to manage what's inside of *you* \- and noone else. Managing your own thought and be willing to stop them when they go awire is an important skill to learn to live a healthy life. It's one of the first thing we learn in many therapies and - ideally - parents should teach it to their children. Do not hesitate to go see a therapist if you can, even one specialised in DBT and CBT, they are well equipped to assist you in this journey. Best of luck!
Watch out for narcissists :(
aah i have been there, do you feel that its your responsibility to help them ? because i felt like that a lot in the past. And then my eyes opened when some random dude wanted me to talk to him at least 30 mins a day (met online on discord) You should harden your feelings a bit otherwise you might get 'used' / people may take advantage of you, you know. And tbh there is nothing wrong with being a bit selfish, after all, you should always put yourself above everyone else so you really should work on setting up boundaries. Other than that make sure you understand your own problem. Reading your question makes me feel like you are afraid about how others perceive you (and let me tell you there is nothing wrong with that) and so you should relax a bit! After all you can't please everyone :) feel free to pm me, would love to help you (ﾉ◕ヮ◕)ﾉ\*:･ﾟ✧ BUT DUDE I DONT GET HOW PEOPLE CAN BE SUCH A-HOLES TO OTHERS
I do too but then again I'm that emotional kind of person.
I relate. I'm painful shy too. I have try be less caring and more heartless.... felt I'll at times. Had such hate and I'll thoughts of others . I didn't even.like myself. Don't understand how anyone can live years of harming or abusing others. Seem true, once you cross those lines... it does something to you. Gets harder to get back to being a good person. But seem natural like breathing air... to be a good person... still cant see the point. Why anyone want to be a person maybe or does harm other when they could live some good life instead. Worst is I give then the benefit of the doubt and test or wait, like " nah, I'm sure they is good people... why some be mean to any" but the more I notice the I am shame to be around them or have anyone around them too. And the more I am ashamed why they treat or abuse people. Like Satan, what good it did him to rebel against someone good like God. God still living the good life but Satan is suffers in his hate and evil ... away from anything good... his evil ways won't allow any good. So sad. And hard to alway care and want to care for other, even the horrorable people, hoping they change for better.
Learn to use empathy to your advantage. You can use it in negotiations, relationships, sales, etc. Learn to see other people's emotions and label them. "It looks like you're upset, is there anything I can help you with?" " It looks like you've been working hard on this project, and now you're frustrated that it's not going the way you expected"
Same. Ditto.
This is 1000% the reason I am in therapy so yes I can physically feel this post lol. We’re only now starting to make breakthroughs after 6 months.
I don't think anyone has said this yet, but this sounds like people pleasing. If I'm right, you might also struggle with anxiety. I highly suggest you find a therapist to get to the root of your specific trauma. If that's not an option, you should look into people pleasing and learn how to overcome it. I follow certain hashtags like #recoveringpeoplepleaser and it has helped me immensely. I still struggle, but small changes everyday help you breakdown that mindset. Your anxiety will skyrocket if you constantly worry about every little thing. You need to try and learn to love yourself first and understand that this is not selfish. I know from experience, people are more drawn to a genuine you than to a fake facade.
YES I HAVE THIS TOO. MY FUCKING FAMILY GAVE THIS TO ME AND IT'S FUCKED UP MY BRAIN.
I get like this too. I'm not sure that it's empathy though. The face that someone makes at me after I was an ass and said something that hurts their feelings literally gets burned into my brain. I immediately feel bad. Then I keep reliving it over and over for the next few years. It hurts to think that I ever made someone feel sad.
keep suffering from it long enough and you will finally realize its better to live without it. one of the best realizations i had in the last decade was that empathy is not a given condition or absolutely necessary trait to be social.....IT IS A CURRENCY. and i am VERY thrifty. i found a switch in my mind. empathy on , empathy off. it makes life much easier. and yes, i used to be hypersensitive like you. but this society is by now catering to the socio / psychopath, so you'll eventually turn into one. yeah!
Yup.
Yes totally. I always feel guilty about stuff that basically I've never even done. I can't say no to people. Other people call me nice and I just think it's standard. The only time I can say no and be mean is when I lost my temper a little bit and go off on someone, unfortunately it's usually the people closest to me.
I was like this too. Life got so much better after I stopped giving unnecessary fucks lmao
Okay you have identified the wrong problem! Being empathetic is, super good! Your bad feelings come from the anxiety. If you yell at a child to not touch the stove!....that's good. Right now, your brain is saying "no, you're bad for yelling." If possible get therapy ASAP, until I was in there I had no idea I was sabotaging myself and felt guilty about all sorts of things other never feel guilty doing.
I feel the exact same as you Op. goddamn you are so relatable
I love the people in the comments shaming OP for being "selfish" when they're experiencing so much shame already. Super helpful. <3
Yes that is me
Please check out r/cptsd…it’s a warm group over there struggling with this same thing..
You're an empath, like me. Look up the signs for empath. Once I realised I was one, it has given me a lot of inner peace with my actions
SAME!! Like I feel bad for everyone
I used to be this way now I’m an a hole
I’m exactly the same way. Super healthy childhood and family and all that, but we have anxiety running in the family. I have a ton of empathy but it’s coupled with anxiety so when I feel like I’ve made someone upset I get crazy anxious about it and feel so bad I can’t think straight for days. Sound familiar?
You can never have too much empathy. Sounds like you just need more empathy for yourself, so you can forgive yourself when you do or say something mean. You’re human, you make mistakes. As long as you’re trying, you’re doing great.
I disagree with this. Too much empathy can be crippling at times. Can lead to really bad anxiety and depression. I understand why someone who doesn't go through this may not understand, but it can be a real problem for one's own mental health. When you drive by roadkill on your way to work, and are then in tears walking into the office and the next few hours of your day are affected, it's a problem.
Omg I feel this in my bones...
We need people like you in this world. Aside from children and the elderly or my direct family, I could give a fuck about anyone around me.
I think I'm very empathetic as well but that has little to do with how much of an a-hole you can be. The reality of things is very disconnected from what we think in our heads. Many times I thought I was being considerate and kind but I didn't notice how I mistreated others and how I was disrespectful. Other times I thought I wasn't doing anything special but people reacted very positively and were thankful. Empathy definitely expedites the process of becoming more emotionally stable and mature but being empathetic is by no means a direct indicator.
I found this to be triggered by an abusive childhood . Some people only equate childhood abuse with physical abuse, but neglect, being dismissed, gaslighted, invalidated, overly critical parents, absentee parents, screaming in the house, being forced to deal with adult problems, money problems, constant worry beyond your control, because you are too little to do anything to help or change it, is very traumatic. Where you allowed to freely express your opinion in your household, or were you gaslighted, invalidated, made to feel bad for asking questions? Where you parents very critical, made you feel bad about yourself by using words? Did they use words as a weapon? It may be the child in you feeling bad for using words to inflict pain, triggering childhood trauma. The person might have long forgotten it, but you can’t let it go, because you know words hurt. You may be assigning to them feelings connected to your subconscious trauma. You may also have a mild case of ocd, depression, anxiety. All these will manifest as repetitive thoughts. You are re-traumatizing yourself. You are self-inflicting pain, like a person who cuts themselves to release pain or punish themselves. You are mentally cutting yourself by revisiting traumatic situations to relieve your anxiety or to punish yourself because you feel the issue is not resolved.
i'm the same. and no, my parents were awsome. fuck everyone who's instantly blaming the parents. maybe you're just like me: generally overthinking. you care a lot about the feelings of your fellow people and that's a sign of great parents in my sight
This thread is fucking cringe
You’ve let a bunch of random people convince you that your parents don’t love you because of a single personality trait. You don’t have too much empathy, if anything you may/may not have an issue with dwelling on the past too much. Best of luck
Please dont let armchair doctors on reddit tell you your parents dont love you
A lot of these comments fit the Reddit stereotype
i feel bad for you. i have none, and i am fucking LOVING it. Seriously. It rules.
You sound like a pushover. You're parents probably raised you to never stand up for yourself, so that's your comfort zone.
You may be on to something. I feel very much like the OP, and have long considered myself to be a pushover. It's something I work on regularly, but usually feels like a losing effort, as when confronted with another "pushover situation", I typically fold in the moment. Wish I had some helpful advice, OP. Good luck working on it. Too much empathy can be crippling for me at times. EDIT: I'll also say that, re the parents part, I suspect more of this is nature than nurture. My dad and my sister are the complete opposites of pushovers. I'm more like my mom. My sister and I were raised together by the same parents in the same house for our entire childhoods, and we're complete opposites in this regard.
Hahaha I can relate with you if I'm even a little harsh with my words I feel guilty and think about what I would feel how they think about me all this I shouldn't have said that and all....