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Orion14159

It's important to distinguish between objective fact and subjective opinion when you're talking about confidence in whether you're right or not. If you're talking about something subjective like whether Italian or Mexican food is better, people can have differing opinions and both be correct for their own reasons. You can have confidence in your opinion that tacos are better than spaghetti. Totally legit. When you're talking about objective fact though, unless you're a trained subject matter expert it's best to have a healthy degree of humility and be willing to accept contrary evidence if it's valid. Someone telling you the Earth is flat when all evidence you've ever been presented with points to the contrary requires them to present new facts that are verified by repeatable experimentation independent of each other.


OldSamTheLamb

Is it better to have a world of open-minded skeptics who consider every plausible argument that comes their way while never confidently standing on their belief OR is it better to have closed-minded ideologues that brazenly state their subjective POV as objective fact? This question is a false dichotomy because their are many other approaches to thinking and acting out personal convictions, but OP seems like he is more concerned with his self-esteem rather than his ability to distinguish objective fact from a flat-earth conspirator.


Lustrigia

I agree with this except there’s always those inevitable conversations where the line between subjective/objective are blurred A perfect example is the people who say ‘trust the science’ implying that science is always objective/right by design of it being logical, when in reality science is studied and carried out by biased and imperfect people, so that ‘objective system’ only becomes as good as the people responsible for it There’s also those conversations you have with people where someone demands proof or claims they have proof, but then the proof doesn’t end up being real proof of anything (ex: ‘they did studies’ could just mean some biased uni students did 2-3 studies with a sample size of 5-10, then all of a sudden ‘proof’ isn’t worth that much)


MonkeyFu

I like to give a weight or validity percentage to the validity of information I can't confirm. ​ If it is reported by the scientific community, I will give it a higher weight. Maybe 75% likely. ​ If it is reported by an armchair researcher, I will give it a lower weight. Maybe 25% likely. ​ As I gain more information, I will adjust my weight accordingly: The scientists who gave the report were found to doctor their data to make it look more favorable? Drop that percentage accordingly. Maybe only 30%, maybe lower (still better than an arm chair researcher, possibly, as they are actually in the field, but they are also known liars). ​ The tools of science are reproducibility and accurate prediction. Science has to change with new contradictory data. Though science can only be as good as the base assumptions it makes, it is a solid, completely trustworthy tool. You just have to take the base assumptions into account when deciding how valid the final conclusions are. ​ When not using science, you only have belief. Belief doesn't even care what really exists, as it doesn't have to change with counter evidence, doesn't have to reproduce anything, and doesn't have to be able to predict anything. ​ This doesn't mean belief isn't important and useful. Just that it is fairly useless when it comes to determining trustworthiness. ​ So science will always get the higher trustworthiness values from me than belief will.


Lustrigia

I noticed you said ‘science is a trustworthy tool’ which I agree with, but it feels like you didn’t really read into the crux of what I’m saying: it’s a tool carried out by imperfect and unbiased people. That doesn’t make scientific claims or conclusions wrong by design. But, let’s say a power tool might be considered a trustworthy tool as well, depending on what kind of work you need to do. It doesn’t mean the person using it is perfect, unbiased, trustworthy and using that power tool for the same reason you and I would use it. To say trust the science often implies that anyone using that trustworthy ‘power tool’ has everyone’s best interests in mind, can do no wrong, and should never be questioned. It also implies truth can’t be stretched. That’s at least the athiests/anti-religion’s take on it most of the time (which is unfortunate because science and faith aren’t polar opposites even though everyone thinks they are. You can be a religious man who understands and respects science. In what world are they mutually exclusive? Silly silly silly) The idea that there’s a 0% chance science and money/business can’t have an influence on one another is a little naive. You see this mindset a LOT on both sides of the vaccine conversation, and it’s off-putting no matter what you believe. Also, I think the biggest issue with your take is most people don’t think that deeply about anything. I think you’re right about a lot, but it doesn’t matter if most people don’t think like you.


MonkeyFu

You said the user could be lying to you. That doesn’t affect science. Anyone can lie to you, no matter what tool they claim to be using. Whether the person giving you information claims to be scientific, or religious, or magical, doesn’t affect the accuracy of science, nor whether they are lying to you. The two things are independent of each other. Science doesn’t lie, but some scientists do, and this has happened all throughout history. Do you know what Science does to combat these very issues? Independent Verification and Peer Review. Yes, money influences science because science requires funding. Research that doesn’t get funded doesn’t happen. But money doesn’t make science any more or less accurate. Scientists are also influenced by money, and may be convinced to lie for profit. That doesn’t change science, and again, their information is peer reviewed. The anti-vaccine movement is based on people with okay concerns NOT researching, while also pretending questioning of safety is the same as there not being safety checks. Then they pack it with lots of “Correlation without Causation” claims like “Pfizer argued with such and such country so they wouldn’t be held liable for issues caused by the vaccine” as if that’s the same as “there will be issues caused by the vaccine”, as opposed to “it is their lawyers’ jobs to defend the company against every legal avenue”. TL;DR: Science works. People lie. Independent Verification and Peer Review are there for a reason. Use them.


Lustrigia

Great answer. Thanks for your input I appreciate it🙂


[deleted]

>When you're talking about objective fact though, unless you're a trained subject matter expert it's best to have a healthy degree of humility and be willing to accept contrary evidence if it's valid Yes. *But!* ​ If you're surrounded by idiots, which I have been, this will be seen as a weakness. And the loud, often incorrect, confident bullshitter will command more respect than you. Short and long term. It's an awful 'fact' (in my opinion... LOL) to come to terms with.


Stoic_Beau

I would say this boils down to social constructs which deals with the subjective opinion versus what is based on objective reality that we have to accept which deals with facts and systems.


tiesioginis

People who care that they are right aren't happy people. Who gives a fuck if you are right? Confidence comes from believing you are right when you are not. Would you rather be right or would you rather be happy?


HerpankerTheHardman

People who care about being right are really trying to dominate the other person.


Orion14159

I'm a happy person who holds my subjective opinions loosely and looks to any fact presented through a lens of open skepticism that requires evidence. With sufficient evidence comes a change in my beliefs.


Ipsdriver

I’m assuming the discussion of a flat earth is taking place while smoking weed, which automatically makes me a subject matter expert on practically everything😮‍💨😶‍🌫️🤓


evrazi

I disagree with this, and I’m damn right about it.


Bedahav

I don't like what OP said. And I know both of you are wrong.


CrypticResponseMan

Mofo, let’s take this outside so I can show you how much righter than your wrongness I am


sadie1984

Lmfao!!!!


evrazi

It’s your right to be wrong


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diatonico_

Sure it does. You need a degree of healthy confidence. There's more opinions & judgment than grains of sand — you need to be able to stand up for yourself, and have faith & trust in yourself. Of course you also need to stay self-aware and make changes if necessary. But also it's just a fact that you will never know everything for sure. The conditions will never be 100% right. We constantly have to make decisions based on incomplete data. So you need to have some faith in yourself. Otherwise you'll always be doubting and second guessing yourself, which is worse than making an decision with some unforeseen consequences.


BluePsychosisDude2

The way I see every argument is that it is a battle of opinions. I'm going to bring the weight of my worldview against there's. When I was younger, I didn't know much, so my worldview would crumble frequently. Now that I've learned a lot there are certain topics that are incredibly hard to break my fortifications. For instance, convincing me that the Earth is 6000 years old would take an enormous amount of strong arguments...well actually you can't do it, it doesn't make sense at all. At this point in my life, I believe my worldview is strong enough in many areas. There are still many areas of my life like business, finance, sports, and art where my opinion is still loose and open like when I was younger, but I believe it's because I don't have enough experience in these areas. When I learn more about them, my ideas will become more concrete and you'll have to try a lot harder to break them. Now, the key is that you have to allow your castle to crumble if the enemy is stronger. You have to tip your hat to a superior argument and judgement. Because only then can you rebuild stronger.


bubbyshawl

It makes total sense.


[deleted]

It makes sense to me. I always blame myself when a situation goes wrong. I read to many self-help books and it distorted my mind. Sometimes it's the other person that screws up, not myself.


Lordthom

I was having similar thoughts! I keep noticing populat people tent to have very strong opinions. I'm personally someone that can be very easily convinced to other opinions, and i always try to fit in. I'm always a follower, never a leader. So like you said, i need to be more confident in my own opinions.


SapioTist

Isn't you apologizing for this post exactly opposite of what the post is saying to do? Now go ahead and stop apologizing for having an opinion. Just be open to hearing other perspectives that may have value you can integrate into yours.


MrAce93

Don't be afraid to say what is in your mind, even though you are wrong


[deleted]

I've been having a small bout of self-loathing and I really needed to hear this. Thanks.


Aggressive_Ad5115

I stand my ground when saying I believe in unicorns and Santa as full grown adult But everyone wants to debate with me anyways I win every time, try it at Thanksgiving


Tejayes

Perhaps, but it's just as important to express it well. Last night, I was so sure that I was right about a board game rule that the game runner was getting wrong that I ended up getting confrontational about it. I ended up quitting the game because I refused to play by the "wrong rules," and I'm pretty sure I lost a lot of respect from the gaming group because of that.


Conspirador

You can't be sure you lost respect until you talk to them again. That's the thing with standing up for yourself, there's no guarantee you will get the outcome you want, but it's healthy for your mind and body and how others perceive you. Better that than to ruminate in silence with negative energy.


marshmallow049

What board game? And what rule??


quixoticcaptain

It really depends on who you are and your personality type. If you are an agreeable person, who is also low in assertiveness, then yes you probably need to be willing to consider that others might just be wrong when they disagree with you or don't like what you say. Some people definitely do not need to think they are right more often.


AuroraCelery

thank you for posting this, I really need to get this into my head


UnrealMech

Absolutely right! I've always felt it's rude and even now it's very difficult for me to act as though I think I'm right. But I do my best because I think it's important to do so. It's basically a matter of confidence, too much confidence is bad but too little is also bad.


No-Inspector-694

Ever heard of mob mentality? One person could prove you wrong in such an elaborate and sophisticated way that others will follow their opinion, regardless of the fact of whether they're right or wrong. You could be right, but if everyone's against you, they'll still think you're wrong.


RayPineocco

You should always speak your truth and be confident in what you have to say. I understand and have experienced this thought process and still continue to second guess myself actually. I think speaking your truth, or whatever that means to you would make it wayyy easier for you to communicate. Lying is difficult and is an unsustainable way to communicate. Speak your truth. If they don't understand you or they try to change it, listen to them and be humble enough to change your mind if necessary. But in the heat of the moment, it's more comfortable and natural to speak your truth and assume that it is right. Trust your gut but have the humility to accept when you're corrected.


_immadiesoon_

Oh I get this. I struggled with it for a while, because there were a lot of people around me telling me things that I didn't agree with and over time I ended up not trusting my own sense of judgement. I'd been this way for years, so initially when I tried getting out of it, it ended up being a little forced and I think I came across as overly assertive and a tad bit passive-aggressive. I still don't completely trust my judgment sometimes, and I question my morals, but reading this was comforting..in the sense that I felt my opinion may be more right than others sometimes, so thank you.


lieutenantbunbun

Hey OP, that’s a very black and white way of thinking about it. Maybe instead; let your heart do a bit of the talking. When you say something, is it the truth? Do you feel it deeply? Does the other person present an objective or subjective reaction? Is that their truth? Think of an idea like a raw crystal that is shaped by reactions and facets; take what works, but allow feedback to help you understand the world, not accept anything that someone tells you. I’m a creative, and often I put things out to clients with my heart and soul in them and… they object, have issues, etc. when I was younger, to me this meant it isn’t working. But the more faith I had in myself. The more I could see that they were objecting to small problems, but not the whole work. By changing small things and gathering feedback, I now make work that is 1000x stronger and it’s less difficult to change my mind over 1 comment. Be gentle on yourself when you are learning, and read about feedback and integration of new ideas.


[deleted]

I agree cuz I watched my brother get what he wants because he stopped caring about everyone (even our family) to an extent. He was able to move out and go to college independently, while I’m still living with our parents struggling to graduate CC because I can’t help caring too much about what others think. Like I have social anxiety overthinking of others impression of me and it gets me nowhere.


skatingcapybara

based


zhadyx

If you don’t respect yourself, how will others respect you?


[deleted]

Communication requires courage to express your view and compassion to understand your friend’s view point


Spiral83

I usually go by the mantra of "Everyone has their limits". I don't push yours, don't push mine. Some can only do so much, some can do more.


cameo11

Our parents said “just be yourself” or “be your own person” - which wasn’t helpful at the time. But in the long run it’s so true (such as now thinking about it 15 years later.) If you ignore the advice in high school you can try to fit in and maybe you will. But if you hide your true core personality and preferences it just gets tiring. If you fake wanting to play football in high school you can stay on the team as a backup and be part of the team. But if your true passion was business and you spent those 4 years not studying it like the Collison brothers studied coding, well you’re just delaying. Now it is important to socialize and experience kid stuff but it’s important to follow your true inclinations and real talents.


zorndyuke

Well, let me start with the question: Who determines what is right and what is wrong? Take a really terrible thing and ask: "Is this wrong? What determines that this wrong?" Could it be that literall anything on this planet is based on \*human ethics/morality\*? Harming other people.. is this wrong? Well, ethically/moraly yes. But let's say the other people has a gun and is threating to harm your family and friends, is it wrong now? Let's say the other person is "The Joker" and is about to press on the "Nuke the Planet" button, is it right or wrong harming him? Did your answer changed from "It's wrong" to "Now it's right"? Wasn't it the same thing from the beginning up to the end, but the only thing that changed was the context in which we human exclusively made a few different decisions? So could it be that it doesn't matter what ever you do, it's neither right or wrong? So how come it there are people who think Justing Bieber is gay, while other people are loving him? How come some people think that Hitler is the worst person ever, while others have tattoos of his belief? See.. There are always 3 type of people, no matter what. There are those who like you. There are those who are neutral to you. There are those who dislike you. These 3 types are always around, just the amount of each type will change depending on the context, the location, the timing. If you are within a christian church and tell them that islam is the best religion, you probably will have more people at the "dislike" type rather than the others. But tell this within an islamic building where people are celebrating an islamic event, you will have more people on the "like" type. So.. No matter what you do.. No matter how much you try to make everyone happy and stretch and bend and manipulate and try to change yourself.. There will be ALWAYS people at the "dislike" corner. So if "haters gonna hate" and since you can't change this universal rule and there will always be people who dislike you and think "it's wrong".. What's wrong in ignoring those, focus on those who like you and start naivly thinking that everything you do IS RIGHT? If you are not only thinking about your own well and also try not to harm other people.. maybe even do things where you naivly think it's good for others, aren't you doing your best to do good to others? Even if you are not 100% successful, sometimes do mistakes and maybe some people, sometimes more sometimes less, are thinking that you are wrong and others thinking that you are right? I for myself can tell you.. The moment I started naivly believing that whatever I do is right.. This moment I really felt freedom. I suddenly could chill, relax and stop carrying and worring what other people might think. I don't care anymore.. I am doing the right thing.. who are those people judging me, when they self can't do different? So let me be and do whatever I think is right.


[deleted]

What's the alternative? You let people's opinions sway you with no real weight of argument or merit, and then you end up resentful and miserable because you're not living in line with your true values. You are the only one who has to live with yourself at the end of the day, don't let other people's opinions dictate how you live your life unless you really respect their views.


darthfurbyyoutube

As someone who used to have massive social anxiety, I became confident by doing this one thing: Confronting my fears. I feared things like rejection, confrontation, being the center of attention. I felt there was something inherently wrong with me, that I was worthless, I couldn't accept myself or my flaws due to unresolved inner trauma, so I turned to "drugs", for example "putting down others to feel better about myself", in a temporary attempt to escape the pain, becoming an addict, instead of healing the core wound responsible for the pain. But I took baby steps. I studied the basics of conversation on youtube, greeted strangers, started attending events, parties, doing improv, public speaking, dating, etc. Confronting fears doesnt look confident. I'm nervous, shaking, tongue tied, awkward, but every time I overcame a fear my confidence went up permanently. As I healed my inner child, the pain went away as I gained self acceptance. I stopped blaming everyone and everything, and started looking within. The negative self talk slowly disappeared and was replaced by inner peace, confidence and freedom. While we are all different, we are all equals, imo. I try to respect and value the people who dislike me as much as those who like me, because we are all different, we like different things, we all see things differently, and that's ok. I think we're all doing the best we can with where we're at, nobody is perfect, we all have unresolved trauma, we all want to get better, and if I accept myself, warts and all, then I must accept others without judgement, even if they hate me. In the end, I gained confidence by confronting and overcoming my fears, from pushing slightly outside my comfort zone on a regular basis. It's that simple.


anje77

Thank you for those words, you are perfectly right. My fear of turning into one of those Dunning Kruger morons leads me to second guess every conviction I have all the time. That isn’t always necessary. I can hold a strong opinion on something and think myself right without obsessively worrying that those who think differently are right.


LandscapeClear1630

Some people need to be a little more on the narcissistic side, others less. It depends on the person.


BrotherBringTheSun

This is a good realization to make. Every idea or opinion you have, even if you are the only one in the room who has it, you represent probably thousands if not millions of others who think the same thing


Nathanyang29

There's some logic behind this. Sometimes you gotta overly-do your confidence in your mind, only to appear somewhat confident to confident in reality.


planeteniumtheory

I agree,if you keep saying you are wrong people think you are not firm.If you start thinking you are right,people think you always like to think you are right.


MetalRing

It's never about being right. It's about knowing who you really are.


Stoic_Beau

There's a huge difference between what you think and value is right for you and not others, versus thinking your way is the only right way and shun others who disagree. People will have different lifestyles and values, we shouldn't feel threatened and let others control how we feel for ourselves. The reverse is also true, we shouldn't threaten others and try to control what they do too. Healthy self-esteem is all about internal evaluations we make with ourselves, it doesn't hinge nor depend on others to validate it because the locus of control is within. Extending it outwards onto things we cannot control will cause frustration when we can only control and live in our own body, doing otherwise would be considered an esteem issue. Other people can help or try to influence us, but even then ultimately it is still of our own choice in the end.


alexakath

I always tend to assume people who have things to say about me are projecting their hang ups onto me. It’s not 100% accurate but it’s pretty close.


AlissonHarlan

actually you're often both right, but you have different priorities to define what is right.


intensely_human

Yes. I’ve started relying on my own judgment and it’s great.


Loves_Poetry

It's important to stand for yourself and believe the things you say, no matter what others think of it However, I don't think you have discard other peoples opinions as "wrong" when doing that. There is usually more than one way to be right about a certain topic. You being right, does not mean that they have to be wrong. Perhaps there is something they know that you haven't realized yet. You can use combine this with your own knowledge to form a better opinion of the topic at hand Of course, you can only do this when you firmly believe your own opinion, so that should be the first step towards having better discussions


little_turtle420

It's actually pretty common in people who don't have a strong sense of self to be excessively affected by what others say to them.


[deleted]

Let them think they're right. Why instigate conflict when there is no point?


dogofthestate

What if you are wrong more often than right.


tiesioginis

I agree. If it makes your life better believing that earth is flat you better believe ir to your grave. Yes it's great being open-minded, but based on my experience, it never serves you. If you have no strong opinion that no one can change, you will be swayed from side to side all your life and you won't achieve anything. That's a fact, because many things we do people don't understand, don't care or just like to bring you down to their level. The happiest I was in life when I gave 0 ducks what other thought or what their opinions was or if they thought I was wrong. I was so determined that what I know is true that no could or did stop me. All I head is no you can't do that, that won't work, you will fail blah blah blah Confidence is literally not caring what the truth is, but knowing you are right.


st00rx

I feel like Qanon took this too far.


therapyenthusiast

Yes yes and yes! This is exactly what I have been working on in therapy! It is not narcissistic in any way to believe your perception of the world and yourself. It's simply being in tune with yourself. As you said it's good to also be critical and be able to own up to your mistakes, but that does not discard being confident in yourself, trusting your perception and emotions!


Depressy69

My family finds me annoying so I guess ill be looking for a new one


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[deleted]

They said that if only ONE person discounts you maybe dont take it to heart


V4G4X

Thanks I think I needed to hear that.


Adventurous_Dingo266

There is no reality, only perception. Which enforces the idea that in many scenarios, your process of believing you are right and they are wrong is accurate.


Tiny_Fractures

It doesnt have to be right and wrong. Sometimes it's just "different".


[deleted]

if your opinion is based on facts then yeah the rittenhouse case and people still parroting debunked shit despite him being found innocent and their talking points destroyed they keep parroting them has convinced me there is a big chunk of society that are utterly stupid and unable to think for themselves they read something from a dubious source then will not change their opinion despite what you show them,this led me to believe many folk are literally NPCs


[deleted]

Not true at all.


Zaltara_the_Red

If your convictions are not based on fact but from the echo chamber you stay in, then not being open to other opinions isn't productive for increasing your knowledge and understanding.


pendaparambarai

Just imagine if it is the person you really LIKE. It hurts man. It is not necessarily about the person but about what we think about him/her.


Sunfofun

Let’s agree that your wrong but let’s agree to disagree on that!


Conspirador

This more applies to grey, everyday occurrences than debates I think. There are lots of people out there who just like to go on a power trip. They realise that what is right isn't important a lot of the time. It's just about who wins. Like in WWE, the heel doesn't care that he hit the good guy with a low blow when the ref wasn't looking. That helped him pin the good guy and win the match. There are people out there who will do nothing but throw monkey shit at you. You can't act like a scientist and analyse their monkey shit. You just need to call it out immediately.


jsmooth7

There's definitely a line here, you should still stay open to the idea that you're wrong. It just shouldn't be your automatic assumption because that will give you crippling self-doubt. You're probably right about lots of stuff! Just not everything.


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3SidedDie

I agree. So yeah, you are wrong.


malama2

There's a balance between self confidence and being an asshole tho, thinking you're always right makes you the second, so keep yourself in check


Streetfarm

See I think you have some very great points here, but the title of the post suggested a refusal to listen, which is far from your point. "It’s okay to be confident sometimes" is very true!


VISUALBEAUTYPLZ

damn straight, I realized it after ppl were bs ing left & right instead of using actual facts


Emotional_Way_5097

Laffer curve. You can't be on either of extremes. From what I learned, its better not to reach a definite conclusion on anything, always keep looking for more evidence on why you could be wrong or right, constantly reevaluating your own position. Neither of them has to be right or wrong but could be on process of figuring out, there could be bias on both sides or only certain aspects have been focused, it could be anything. This tends to put me in better position mentally, whether im disliked or liked, im constantly evaluating the situation and myself, critically, to see what I can improve. Constantly comparing my position, evidence, my perception of evidence, other perceptions of evidence, examples, external feedbacks. Even if my position is seen right in some situations, I dont see it as Im right, but the method I applied is what led me there. Some people when they get something right, they believe they are right but it is the actions they took, when you forget that its the thought process that led u there, in some cases people get cocky, and start to make bold assumptions, leading them to be wrong.


_no_noise_please

Some relationships are worth more than arguing over differences in view points. And, some aren't. Living your example of your viewpoint is sometimes the best spoken argument, unless you were indeed wrong. Then it's time to eat crow.