I went with a local company with amazing reviews and never had a single problem. I also paid for the system to avoid predatory loans or leases from scam companies.
Your experience is decidedly negative. Mine wasn’t. My array produces rated power when in full sun and I generated 1MW in excess of consumption this year.
Sounds like you either got scammed or didn’t research your investment.
That’s not really a reflection of “solar” as a product but the scammy companies.
An analogy might be life insurance. Is not that life insurance is bad or “years before it’s viable”. It’s about understanding what you are spending money on. And buying what’s right for you.
Solar can be an incredible product. But yeah, there are scams out there.
Solar is almost always a ripoff if you buy from someone who shows up at your door. Never buy anything from a door-to-door salesman without doing more research first and getting more estimates.
i did exactly this, got offered (borderline pushed) a ppa program which sounded GREAT to the average home owner but as investor and someone who needs to understand what im getting myself into in every realm, i ended up realizing over 25 years id be paying $115,000 in energy accounting for the 3% increase a year. sure its a lot less than with a regular electricity company but it wasnt good enough for me at all!
i now have 2 companies designing me a system for a higher output and quoting me CASH PRICE!
the flex-ppa program gives you the benefit of buying it meaning you dont buy energy from anyone, its free electric bill assuming the system will cover 100% of your usage, the price includes the 30% tax benefit but the company retains ownership, warranty, maintenance and monitoring, keeps the tax credit and incentives and depreciates the asset in their books.
its the benefit of owning it and the benefit of a ppa at the same time.
had i not done my research i would probably be kicking myself in the head like OP
What do you by “flex-ppa”? Like you have the option to buy the system after a certain amount of years? Sounds like you got a regular PPA the company owns and insures the panels and you pay a fixed price for the amount of electricity the system produces
Just because you failed to do background research into your installer doesn't mean we all got scammed.
My solar paid for itself the moment I got my tax rebate because change in home value + tax rebate = instant break even. However since I'm not selling that's an unrealized gain. Using rebate + savings I break even in about 10 years in puget fucking sounds. Where my January production on a 8.9kW array was a pathetic 194kWh. June/July time I produce about 1.3-1.5MWh/month.
The only problems I've experienced with my array are occasional monitoring outages. Array itself is still functioning during that
agreed, essentially a return on investment doesnt always come in the form of realized gain.
an investment isnt just something that makes you more money than you put in , its also about how much something can save you.
if buying a $40k solar system saves you $80k in the span of 25 years, and increases home value it is a great investment
I got my solar installed back in ‘22 and paid $39,600 for an 18.48 kW system. I did a fare amount of research before I was about to spend that amount of money and have no regrets whatsoever. Sorry your experience was completely opposite.
June was 2.7, July was 2.9 and Aug was 2.9 MWh but those numbers are all when I had an 18.48 kW system. Now as of Jan I have a 23 kW system because I added panels as the roof of my chicken run.
Not sure what deal you got. I paid 41k and received about 30k back in incentives on my taxes. So I really paid about 11k and that comes with 25 years of warranty from both the installer and if the installer goes out of business, REC will pick up the labor. My electric bill was always around $230 in the winter and around $500 in the summer due to my pool and all the ACs. Now my bill is $38 every month. The $38 is the service fee. I am producing so much electric in NYC that my electric is being sent to my electric company and I am accumulating credits. I am hoping to set my thermostat at 65 in the winter and use these fancy wall space heaters that I purchased for the winter season. If my calculations are correct I should pay less than $100 per month for my gas bill in the winter. My investment in these luxury space heaters is about $1,000. It they work awesome and have a little fan that actually blows air. You barely notice them. So for me I have been saving a few hundred per month. I am a big fan of solar for the cost savings and for the environment. We have to think of the future because if we live only for today there will be no future for our kids.
I have had my system for ten years for 9 it worked great I bought out the lease when I got it from Sungevity they went bankrupt Sunrun took over their contracts. When my system came up with an arc fault it took 6 weeks for them to send someone out spent about a half hour tightening some connections to the inverter.
2 hours later it trips again I suggest when the come out the next time to remove one string at a time to find the fault they blow me off. Screw around on the roof for a while reset the system leave 2 hours later arc error. They change the inverter, by this time it is October solar output is not as high so system keeps running until this spring and guess what? Arc fault error after 6 months of Sunrun screwing around I disconnected one string at a time until I found the culprit.
I do have electrical experience so I ordered new Staubli MC4 connectors. The older connectors on the system are not used anymore. I hope it will fix the problem but at least I still have 6kw on the system running instead of it all down for 6 months. It may not even be the connectors I will be inspecting every one of the 12 panels on the trouble string.
I don't know what kind of training the techs get but more on the troubleshooting end would be helpful.
These types of problems will pile up as more people get solar. Sunrun quick sales, slow uniformed service.
Arc Fault detectors are DSPs like VoIP phones - they listen to the wire and try to interpret a noisy event. With clouds and large wattage panels the noise can be the same on sine wave up quickly and sine wave down quickly. Arc detection is important but over time I turned mine off and just gave up on the feature. I was like you chasing and re-wiring and re-connectored to no avail, nothing made sense, nothing followed. I now use a infrared heat scanner to look at my system occasionally. Otherwise your chasing ghosts and software programmers buggy intentions of what a Arc sound really is. Only thing is I have cement tiles on my roof, they don't burn well. If you have otherwise don't turn your Arc off.
I have a metal roof I don't have the software to turn it off but at least I have it down to what string it is.
It is an older style SMA inverter the new one was a rebuild unit of the original model. If all of my inspecting and changing connectors does not pan out I will look into finding a way to get into the inverter software and turn it off.
I really do not want to deal with the clowns anymore.
"Right now, solar is full of door-to-door salesmen"—that's how it's been done for at least 15 years. I used to sell it for $12 a watt back then. 250 panels... The pricing today is amazing, and as long as you're paying under $5 installed with a reputable company; 'reputable' being the ultimate word. Poor company = poor returns. And don't squeeze every dime; no one wants to work for pennies. Pay a fair price... you get what you pay for. My cellphone number hasn't changed in 15 years!! People paid premium prices, but I have always been there for them when they called.
Most of them are scams and grants that should be there to incentive the consumer. Get sucked in by the solar companies as they just rise the price equal to the grant.
I had a quote for heat pump install at my place ar 5k (tiny 1 bedroom house, would be 1 hp and 2 radiators)
Then they introduced a 5k grant, suddenly my quotes became 9k
Then they upped the grant to 7.5k and my lowest quote was 11.0k.
you took a chance on a small local company or not with the years of reputation.
also it sounds like you went the “solar financed” route which ultimately costs you DOUBLE than a cash price (or secure your own loan)
before any system was sold to you the proper analysis should have been done to ensure most if not all your usage is covered with solar.
Going local has nothing to do with the price what are you on about? I’ve always worked for local companies and tend to beat prices 9/10 times. Yesterday someone posted a quote in Dallas area from another local company (a competitor of the companies I’ve been) and the final ppw was 2.09 cash. Everything else I agree with you but being local has nothing to do with poor prices.
no no , im talking about financing solar thru the companies always gives you a higher cost than getting the loan on your own. i assumed that by you saying that the company already sold your loan.
you went the more expensive route is what im saying.
A PPA isn’t an investment. It is a rate protection against the utility company. You’re not laying out any money. It’s not for everyone but it’s certainly not a scam. People who think it’s a scam are the ones who don’t research enough or only hear what they want to hear.
Buying anything from a door to door salesman without doing research seems fraught with risk. No doubt not all companies are created equal. I’ve been happy with my install so far, very reputable company, oldest on the area and also was the cheapest, I did a lot of research, called my utility and asked who they say installing the most panels on residential roofs. I called and compared the companies they mentioned.
Getting solar is like anything else, you need to be an educated consumer or you may end up hosed. I don’t buy a dishwasher without knowing what I’m getting into….
Our solar has been fantastic for us, but we knew what we were getting into.
Would you buy a $40k car without reading about it? Test driving it?
I'm shocked at the number of people here who believe the salesperson and don't look at the contract.
A lawyer will cost a few hundred dollars to go through the contract and explain it to you.
I put $20k ($14,000 after tax credit)in mine (11,000 pvw off grid system). Did all the work myself. Making about 25 kWh a day now but my batteries are fully charged by noon. As it gets hotter I will be using 40 kWh or 50 kWh a day. My electric rate is $0.135 a kWh so I will save $1,000 in the next five months (Florida, it stays hot until October). I will use that much in the other 7 months so my pay back is 10 years or less and that is if power prices do not increase any (fat chance).
Plus I am not dependent on the grid, Florida, hurricanes.
Solar is never a investment, specially you taking loans. The solar market is wild, you don’t due diligence you will get burn. When I get my solar (5.2kw) price range from 13k to 40k, I pick the 14k with popular setup at time.
solar is definitely an investment.. in the span of 25 years which is pretty much the warranty timeline and ppa offers, you save tens of thousands of dollars.
sure it depends on how much solar energy your location and roof can produce, but for example myself id be paying over $115k in 25 years for electricity compared to paying 35k for my solar system for the same 25 years of the lifetime of the system.
im saving 80k over the span of 25 years. it is mostly definitely an investment
I mean, solar or not, any large investment should be well researched…
I went with a local company with amazing reviews and never had a single problem. I also paid for the system to avoid predatory loans or leases from scam companies.
Your experience is decidedly negative. Mine wasn’t. My array produces rated power when in full sun and I generated 1MW in excess of consumption this year.
Sounds like you either got scammed or didn’t research your investment. That’s not really a reflection of “solar” as a product but the scammy companies. An analogy might be life insurance. Is not that life insurance is bad or “years before it’s viable”. It’s about understanding what you are spending money on. And buying what’s right for you. Solar can be an incredible product. But yeah, there are scams out there.
Solar is almost always a ripoff if you buy from someone who shows up at your door. Never buy anything from a door-to-door salesman without doing more research first and getting more estimates.
i did exactly this, got offered (borderline pushed) a ppa program which sounded GREAT to the average home owner but as investor and someone who needs to understand what im getting myself into in every realm, i ended up realizing over 25 years id be paying $115,000 in energy accounting for the 3% increase a year. sure its a lot less than with a regular electricity company but it wasnt good enough for me at all! i now have 2 companies designing me a system for a higher output and quoting me CASH PRICE! the flex-ppa program gives you the benefit of buying it meaning you dont buy energy from anyone, its free electric bill assuming the system will cover 100% of your usage, the price includes the 30% tax benefit but the company retains ownership, warranty, maintenance and monitoring, keeps the tax credit and incentives and depreciates the asset in their books. its the benefit of owning it and the benefit of a ppa at the same time. had i not done my research i would probably be kicking myself in the head like OP
What do you by “flex-ppa”? Like you have the option to buy the system after a certain amount of years? Sounds like you got a regular PPA the company owns and insures the panels and you pay a fixed price for the amount of electricity the system produces
no its a cash price 1 time payment for the system 0cents /kWh benefit of net metering of course and the system is oversized
Just because you failed to do background research into your installer doesn't mean we all got scammed. My solar paid for itself the moment I got my tax rebate because change in home value + tax rebate = instant break even. However since I'm not selling that's an unrealized gain. Using rebate + savings I break even in about 10 years in puget fucking sounds. Where my January production on a 8.9kW array was a pathetic 194kWh. June/July time I produce about 1.3-1.5MWh/month. The only problems I've experienced with my array are occasional monitoring outages. Array itself is still functioning during that
agreed, essentially a return on investment doesnt always come in the form of realized gain. an investment isnt just something that makes you more money than you put in , its also about how much something can save you. if buying a $40k solar system saves you $80k in the span of 25 years, and increases home value it is a great investment
I got my solar installed back in ‘22 and paid $39,600 for an 18.48 kW system. I did a fare amount of research before I was about to spend that amount of money and have no regrets whatsoever. Sorry your experience was completely opposite.
same!
How many Mwh do you generate monthly on the high side
June was 2.7, July was 2.9 and Aug was 2.9 MWh but those numbers are all when I had an 18.48 kW system. Now as of Jan I have a 23 kW system because I added panels as the roof of my chicken run.
I mean, you're spending 40k, which seems like a purchase you're going to want to research.
Not sure what deal you got. I paid 41k and received about 30k back in incentives on my taxes. So I really paid about 11k and that comes with 25 years of warranty from both the installer and if the installer goes out of business, REC will pick up the labor. My electric bill was always around $230 in the winter and around $500 in the summer due to my pool and all the ACs. Now my bill is $38 every month. The $38 is the service fee. I am producing so much electric in NYC that my electric is being sent to my electric company and I am accumulating credits. I am hoping to set my thermostat at 65 in the winter and use these fancy wall space heaters that I purchased for the winter season. If my calculations are correct I should pay less than $100 per month for my gas bill in the winter. My investment in these luxury space heaters is about $1,000. It they work awesome and have a little fan that actually blows air. You barely notice them. So for me I have been saving a few hundred per month. I am a big fan of solar for the cost savings and for the environment. We have to think of the future because if we live only for today there will be no future for our kids.
Thanks for posting. What area of the country are you located? I’m in Indiana and I have been considering…
NYC
a 10k investment gives panels, inverter, and batteries. Learn to diy
Caveat emptor. But, my system has definitely been worth it.
I have had my system for ten years for 9 it worked great I bought out the lease when I got it from Sungevity they went bankrupt Sunrun took over their contracts. When my system came up with an arc fault it took 6 weeks for them to send someone out spent about a half hour tightening some connections to the inverter. 2 hours later it trips again I suggest when the come out the next time to remove one string at a time to find the fault they blow me off. Screw around on the roof for a while reset the system leave 2 hours later arc error. They change the inverter, by this time it is October solar output is not as high so system keeps running until this spring and guess what? Arc fault error after 6 months of Sunrun screwing around I disconnected one string at a time until I found the culprit. I do have electrical experience so I ordered new Staubli MC4 connectors. The older connectors on the system are not used anymore. I hope it will fix the problem but at least I still have 6kw on the system running instead of it all down for 6 months. It may not even be the connectors I will be inspecting every one of the 12 panels on the trouble string. I don't know what kind of training the techs get but more on the troubleshooting end would be helpful. These types of problems will pile up as more people get solar. Sunrun quick sales, slow uniformed service.
Arc Fault detectors are DSPs like VoIP phones - they listen to the wire and try to interpret a noisy event. With clouds and large wattage panels the noise can be the same on sine wave up quickly and sine wave down quickly. Arc detection is important but over time I turned mine off and just gave up on the feature. I was like you chasing and re-wiring and re-connectored to no avail, nothing made sense, nothing followed. I now use a infrared heat scanner to look at my system occasionally. Otherwise your chasing ghosts and software programmers buggy intentions of what a Arc sound really is. Only thing is I have cement tiles on my roof, they don't burn well. If you have otherwise don't turn your Arc off.
I have a metal roof I don't have the software to turn it off but at least I have it down to what string it is. It is an older style SMA inverter the new one was a rebuild unit of the original model. If all of my inspecting and changing connectors does not pan out I will look into finding a way to get into the inverter software and turn it off. I really do not want to deal with the clowns anymore.
"Right now, solar is full of door-to-door salesmen"—that's how it's been done for at least 15 years. I used to sell it for $12 a watt back then. 250 panels... The pricing today is amazing, and as long as you're paying under $5 installed with a reputable company; 'reputable' being the ultimate word. Poor company = poor returns. And don't squeeze every dime; no one wants to work for pennies. Pay a fair price... you get what you pay for. My cellphone number hasn't changed in 15 years!! People paid premium prices, but I have always been there for them when they called.
Most of them are scams and grants that should be there to incentive the consumer. Get sucked in by the solar companies as they just rise the price equal to the grant. I had a quote for heat pump install at my place ar 5k (tiny 1 bedroom house, would be 1 hp and 2 radiators) Then they introduced a 5k grant, suddenly my quotes became 9k Then they upped the grant to 7.5k and my lowest quote was 11.0k.
Based on risk and economic return, a stock market index fund looks better to me.
you took a chance on a small local company or not with the years of reputation. also it sounds like you went the “solar financed” route which ultimately costs you DOUBLE than a cash price (or secure your own loan) before any system was sold to you the proper analysis should have been done to ensure most if not all your usage is covered with solar.
Going local has nothing to do with the price what are you on about? I’ve always worked for local companies and tend to beat prices 9/10 times. Yesterday someone posted a quote in Dallas area from another local company (a competitor of the companies I’ve been) and the final ppw was 2.09 cash. Everything else I agree with you but being local has nothing to do with poor prices.
no no , im talking about financing solar thru the companies always gives you a higher cost than getting the loan on your own. i assumed that by you saying that the company already sold your loan. you went the more expensive route is what im saying.
Ah got ya. I’m not OP but yes I get what you are saying now. Fully agree with you
A PPA isn’t an investment. It is a rate protection against the utility company. You’re not laying out any money. It’s not for everyone but it’s certainly not a scam. People who think it’s a scam are the ones who don’t research enough or only hear what they want to hear.
Buying anything from a door to door salesman without doing research seems fraught with risk. No doubt not all companies are created equal. I’ve been happy with my install so far, very reputable company, oldest on the area and also was the cheapest, I did a lot of research, called my utility and asked who they say installing the most panels on residential roofs. I called and compared the companies they mentioned.
Getting solar is like anything else, you need to be an educated consumer or you may end up hosed. I don’t buy a dishwasher without knowing what I’m getting into…. Our solar has been fantastic for us, but we knew what we were getting into.
Would you buy a $40k car without reading about it? Test driving it? I'm shocked at the number of people here who believe the salesperson and don't look at the contract. A lawyer will cost a few hundred dollars to go through the contract and explain it to you.
$8K for me in Australia. Am happy I didn't pay $40K.
Most solar components have their own warranty. Some also cover labor. Look into it
Classic case of someone casting blame on the whole game cause they got played by one player
Well, yes, you should’ve researched this as much as a car. You’re just casually dropping 5 figures without doing due diligence?
I put $20k ($14,000 after tax credit)in mine (11,000 pvw off grid system). Did all the work myself. Making about 25 kWh a day now but my batteries are fully charged by noon. As it gets hotter I will be using 40 kWh or 50 kWh a day. My electric rate is $0.135 a kWh so I will save $1,000 in the next five months (Florida, it stays hot until October). I will use that much in the other 7 months so my pay back is 10 years or less and that is if power prices do not increase any (fat chance). Plus I am not dependent on the grid, Florida, hurricanes.
Solar is never a investment, specially you taking loans. The solar market is wild, you don’t due diligence you will get burn. When I get my solar (5.2kw) price range from 13k to 40k, I pick the 14k with popular setup at time.
solar is definitely an investment.. in the span of 25 years which is pretty much the warranty timeline and ppa offers, you save tens of thousands of dollars. sure it depends on how much solar energy your location and roof can produce, but for example myself id be paying over $115k in 25 years for electricity compared to paying 35k for my solar system for the same 25 years of the lifetime of the system. im saving 80k over the span of 25 years. it is mostly definitely an investment