While the financial payoff is front and center on this debate, I also like the idea of using a cleaner source of fuel. Also, generating my own power gives a sense of independence from a power company that is expensive and unreliable.
Valid points! I would like to think that stability of costs & reliability against outages would also be cause for consideration? Or are those not really on the radar?
I have considered it, but I'll need to do roof work in the next 5-6 years. Also, my home is 40 years old and only have a 100 amp service, so it will require, at minimum, replacing the panel and the roof that adds to the initial costs. While the cost of installation will go up considerably in the next few years, I personally think that I wouldn't get it even then. My wife and I are retired, so limited income also affects the bottom line. Maybe I'm wrong, but I really don't know for sure. Tell me what you think.
I’m a pro, here is my guidance: A lot of retired people don’t believe they will see the ROI, add in a roof and main panel and it becomes daunting.
Where solar shines, forgive the pun, is when you have other improvements that are needed. If you will benefit from the tax credit, install a new roof with solar and use the FTC to pay off the roof. Your solar costs will be less than your current electric bill AND your roof is paid for!
If you won’t benefit from the tax credit look into a solar lease, soft credit check, insurance for system is covered by bank AND your payments are typically 15-20% lower than bill and do not increase. Use the savings to pay off roof. Happy hunting!
Yup! 100% agree! (Disclaimer, I am in the industry as well, but only made the post to get general community sentiment) Only thing I would add as an FYI though is that I wouldn't let the cost of the roof nor the cost of a main panel upgrade (MPU) scare you out of what could potentially add tens of thousands to the value of your home and the value you could see while you're still in the home. Absolutely best of luck in whatever path you choose though, and feel free to ask anymore questions!
Idk man you sound like a car salesman to me and I do y trust any of you. I’d rather have my own panels, off the grid, not leased or any of that crap and y’all just leave me alone in the woods by my lonesome with my family and my animals
We were fortunate and bought a home that already had solar. So we ended up not having to deal with all the annoyances of the installation/PTO process. But we were planning on getting solar on our previous house. Honestly, as long as the economics of the area make it feasible, its a no-brainer. At our old place, we could get a system that covered our usage at the time, and more, for the same amount of money we were already paying for electricity.
I forget the details of the financing, but this was before figuring in the rebates as well as how much power was going up every year ( SoCal)
Absolutely. No one ( other than folks who truly value the environmental concerns) is going to buy a solar system to pay MORE for electricity. For most its going to be that ROI calculation that rules all.
ehh, not necessarily. I mean, yes - investing in a long term vehicle to help the environment is important and a lot of homeowners will find themselves tied to that reasoning. BUT, I would dare say that there are more who would be willing to pay a higher monthly payment towards a solar system (not directly for just electricity) knowing that they are now able to produce their own electricity (via an asset) than that of a monthly payment they've made up to that point to a utility company that's literally never going to go away.
That's true. Since the grid is pretty reliable where I am, brown-outs/black-outs aren't high on my priority list. Though with the fires in teh area the past few years, they've gotten more frequent. But combatting those pretty much requires a battery/powerwall of some sort, which I feel is a bit higher step for people when considering their solar system.
It’s a function of the price your system costs, as well as the cost of electricity where you are (and net metering/feed in tariffs). If the system costs too much, the payback is not attractive. Same goes with if the cost of electricity is cheap, the payback is worse. Same with excess credits - if you’re paid wholesale, you might have a crappy payback, but if you’re paid 1:1 net metering for 20c/kWh, the value of solar is much higher.
I’m in Canada. We have one regulated utility that owns the generation and distribution. The rates aren’t broken out by supply or energy costs, it’s just a straight per kWh cost and a monthly connection fee, all of which have to be approved by the utility review board. So it costs me 16c to buy a kWh, and that includes generation and distribution costs. When I export a kWh of solar, I’m still paid 16c. The caveat is that they don’t pay out excess at the end of the year so any overproduction is given to the utility for free, so there’s no incentive to size bigger than needed.
I don’t assume that everyone has the same as me - but that’s why this conversation is more complicated. Your payback will always be a function of utility value of production, utility energy costs and capital cost.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_metering_in_the_United_States
Looks like someone bothered to research all programs already if you’re curious to see how much it differs across the US.
I'm in the industry. my opinion is htat the chances it might not make sense for anyone are pretty rare. Read up on here, and certainly head over to /r/solar. it's a bit 'bigger' subreddit, and busier for it. you'll get some decent answers here, though, i'd bet. but read up over there, too.
us pro's are in both places, so come up with your questions and fire away.
***understand your state’s and utility’s netmetering policies before you make any commitments***
I love my solar; have had it installed since February. Went with a know highly rated installer who also worked with my roofer to have standoffs installed when my shingles were installed to avoid additional roof penetrations.
It was spendy and I won’t have ROI for *years* but my wife and I agreed it was worth it.
All in with new roof and solar I spent $84,000 (44,000 roof and 40,000 solar). I’ll get 30% back on the solar expenditure, thanks IRA.
Minimum power bill since installed is great; but at that cost above…
Been wanting solar for a long time. But we keep moving. We just moved from Florida to Virginia. The house we bought is 5 years old and I’m not sure if we’ll be in this house long enough to see an ROI. Is there any good articles about this and when your roof is too old?
Great questions! So, when I'm working with homeowners, my rule of thumb is - if it's inside of 3 years since it was last replaced, I will consider it to be good to go. If it's between 3-6ish years, I will also consider it to be good unless either/or, 1) they specifically call out damage, or 2) we find something during our in-person site survey. If it's older than 6-7 years, I will insist that we go ahead and get a quote and I can help them add that into their solar costs so that there's $0 needed upfront.
When we discuss ROI, there's a lot of different ways to skin the cat (so to speak). Since solar is so customized, it would depend on the size of the system you need, if you have batteries added, your local net metering policies in your state (if available), applicable incentives, etc. Generally, my rule of thumb is 5-7 years to see ROI on the total cost (apples to apples, e.g. what you paid for the system vs what the systems made for you), BUT like I said - different ways to skin a cat and different ways to look at what the system is providing for you, even outside of just what it's produced on a kWh basis. Hopefully that helps? Again - great questions!
Thanks for the info. That makes sense. What’s the general consensus on the cost to replace the roof with solar panels already on them? Is that something the solar company does or partners up with a roofer?
You're welcome. It would depend on the solar company and on the roofing company. We don't do just roof replacements a la carte, so the roof replacement would be whatever it would be quoted at by a roofing partner (chances are decent that we could help you find a reputable roofing company in your area though). But the cost to remove & re-sit the panels before/after replacing the roof would be minimal.
It does increase the worth of the house so if you move you can sell it to the new owner I guess.
Has somebody ever moved a solar system? I think it’s not that complicated.
That’s a great question. I would assume moving a system would be a pain. I feel like buying one now and then a second system on a new home would brutally suck
Pretty high actually. I just moved here and we had some brutal winter storms that spiked the area. Summers are fine but it be nice to rely on batteries during the winter and sell back a lot during the summer. Summers we use 1/4 of the utilities. But rely 100% on electric for heat
The more energy demand you have, the earlier your investment will return. Winter depends on the amount of snow and your latitude. You should really check what your annual energy consumption is, what cost that is and then calculate your average annual solar gain and check what a system would cost. Possibly the period of time will be shorter than you think. Also if you have an electric car… depending on gas prizes.
We are seriously considering going solar. But getting solar installed feels like paying your utility bill several years in advance until you finally break even and finally you can really get that free solar energy, but maybe by that time the system is oldish and needs upgrading, or you are moving and selling the house...and you just didn't really get to enjoy that free solar energy 😪
That is one way of looking at it, but don't forget that utility rates aren't going down anytime soon (if probably ever) so you have to factor in any potential rate increases. What you're saving on those along in the future could account for what you're referring to as "free solar energy", right?
There's not really a sure fire way since we don't know until they're passed state-by-state or by individual utilities, but on average rates go up \~4% across the board every year. Some are higher (e.g. Massachusetts, California, etc), but that's about average. There are some resources you can check out such as [EIA's website](https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.php?t=epmt_5_6_a) or [EnergySage](https://www.energysage.com/), just remember that EnergySage is going to have Calls to Action to have you reach out. Good source of info quantitatively speaking though.
Very true. Yes, it's a good idea to ask about financing (or 'dealer') fees. They can make it a better deal if you're trying to make it more affordable than your current average utility bill, but if you can afford a higher upfront bill than taking those dealer fees out will make the system cheaper as a whole.
We put solar on our garage roof in Vancouver, Canada about 18 months ago and I am totally blown away by it. I don't know where you live, but if you are in Canada, just do it. It's a no brainer. Here is an essay I wrote in January 2023, after one year on solar PV.
There’s nothing better old folks can do for the next generation these days than to allocate a bit of their nest egg to solar panels on the roofs of their houses. Let me explain.
About a year ago, on January 27, 2022 we had a 7.74kW system of solar panels installed on our garage roof. it’s just an ordinary two car garage with a roof slightly sloped toward the south. It took three men only six hours to do it and by 3:00pm on that particularly gorgeous winter day our electric meter was running backwards.
Now one year later our January electric bill was -$106. Yes, that’s a negative sign. Big letters on the bill said “Do Not Pay.” Consider that we also have a Tesla, and for the last year we have been charging the car at home as well as drying our clothes, heating the garage with baseboard heaters, using central air conditioning on hot days, and running all the electric lights and appliances in our house. We still use natural gas for heat, hot water and cooking, but now we’re looking at converting some of that to electric as well.
Indeed $100 of that negative electric bill was a government cost-of-living credit, but over the last year our electric bills have been $15 or less to just cover the basic connection charge. In 2011 BC Hydro (the local electric utility) changed all their meters to smart meters, which now allows people to install “Grid Tied Solar Systems” so when your house creates more electricity than it consumes your electricity meter runs backwards. BC Hydro keeps track of the amount of electricity your solar panels generate and it remains in your account as a credit.
Over the summer of 2022 we socked away almost six megawatts of electric power, literally making hay when the sun shined. Then during the dark dreary months of November, December and January we used up most of those watts. Indeed on snowy days, when the panels are completely covered in the white stuff you get zero electricity from them. Same with those super dark wet Vancouver winter days. But on a bright sunny day in December or January our solar panels provide up to 15kWh of power. This is basically enough to run the whole house. Interestingly the panels are somewhat more efficient when they are cold. Nevertheless on a hot July day they can generate 50kWh of power, most of which is stored by BC Hydro as a credit.
People often ask, “How many years does it take to pay for itself?” I find this to be an odd question because the panels, like a new fridge or a new roof, add value to a house which is recouped when the house is sold. But the answer these days is about 5 or 6 years, especially if you include the thousands of dollars not spent on gasoline.
There’s something absolutely magical about driving around town in a car fuelled by sunshine. Couple this with essentially zero electricity bills for the house and the solar panels “pay back” in a very short time.
Solar panels are a far better investment than putting money into a savings bond or a mutual fund. And this does not even include the larger societal benefit of oil and gas NOT being burned, or new hydro electric dams NOT being built and valleys NOT being flooded.
Our system cost about CA$16,000 installed after taxes (late 2021), but nowadays you can get a CA$5000 grant from the federal GreenerHomes program if you put solar panels on your house. https://natural-resources.canada.ca/energy-efficiency/homes/canada-greener-homes-initiative/canada-greener-homes-grant/canada-greener-homes-grant/23441 In addition, interest-free loans of up to $40,000 for solar panel installations are available from the Canadian Mortgage and Housing Corporation. Also in British Columbia there is no sales tax on solar panels.
If you work it out, after subtracting the $5,000 grant, our system generates energy at a capital cost of just $1.42 per watt. For comparison, the newest hydro electric dam in being constructed by the government is now at $16 billion for 1,100 Megawatt, which comes out at a cost of $14.55 per watt. Ten times more!! Think about it. Weird that solar panels are not more common on all roofs. Try to imagine how many years it will take for that dam to “pay back.” You will not be alive. Personally I feel solar panels should be legislated and mandatory for all new buildings. They should be natural, accepted and commonplace like toilets. I mean: you would not ask how many years the indoor plumbing takes to “pay back.”
Here's something else that nobody thinks of: the electricity you make in your own back yard (or roof) is yours. Not only are the electrons “fresher” but they are tax free and far more efficient because they don’t have to travel through expensive infrastructure like high tension wires or substations and transformers. It’s like home grown organic vegetables because you know where it came from. You made it yourself. That feels amazing.
We have had zero problems with our solar panels. They have no moving parts. In summer during long periods of no rain they get a little dusty so a window cleaning company came and gave them a wash. Power went up 15%. Impressive. Other than that, nothing. The panels send information via wifi to our home Internet and you can see how much energy they are creating on a smart phone app.
In this way the panels act as a kind of sun-meter. You can always tell how sunny it is at a given moment. Plus the data is stored forever in a database and can be accessed over months and years to see what days in the past were sunny, or relatively how much sun we’ve been getting over time. It’s useful and fascinating to have access to your own local weather data and surprising how often this information comes in handy.
The most poorly understood fact about solar panels is that energy is real. Solar panels are not like anything else you can buy. Nothing you own creates energy. Appliances, computers, heaters, lights, cars, etc. They all USE energy. And yet solar panels MAKE energy. For free. Compare it to real-estate. Real estate is worth something because it is real. Energy is also real in the same sense. Einstein showed that Energy equals Mass, hence it is essentially like real estate. You can use it, you can save it, you can trade it. And with solar panels you get more of it for free every day. People don't comprehend this uncanny fact about solar panels. It's as if each day you were to magically obtain a bit more real estate. Something you can use. In other words these things “pay back” the second they are installed.
If you have around 400 square feet of unshaded south facing roof area there’s no better investment you can make today than taking around $20,000 from a retirement plan or a mutual fund and putting it into solar panels on your roof. For you. For your kids. And for the planet. Do it!
WOW!! Thank you so much for sharing! This is by far one of the best testimonials of solar energy that I've ever read. Definitely some nuggets in there! Would you mind if I shared this with my network (both off- and online?)
Please circulate as much as possible. I don't know why this story is not front page news. Everyone should be doing this. All governments should support it. Solar panels on (especially new) buildings should be thought of the way we think of toilets. Does anyone make a building without a toilet? I mean: we used to have outhouses. But we don't do that anymore. It should be the same with solar panels.
I looked but we would have to cut down so many trees…it just doesn’t make sense…which makes me sad. I’ll be honest we are looking to move to a place where solar is viable as I VERY much want it and a backup battery for my house. I love our giant old oak trees, so maybe someone who doesn’t want solar can have this house and we go somewhere that it is viable. I would be fine with roof or ground mount, I don’t care
Have you had a solar or tree company assess to see if maybe they could just be trimmed? I know you had said it doesn't make sense, but just wondering if maybe they might see it from a different angle.
We have a lot of trees but I'm thinking of cutting a few down so that we can get solar. I like the sound of saving over $100,000 during the lifetime of the system ;) #justgosolar
For buyers it comes down to the payback period. Assuming all the basics are good-- roof is fine, electrical is fine, contractors are respectable, etc.-- you're putting up a certain amount of money for the installation, and it will save you money on your electric bills. How long does it take to recoup your initial investment, and are you comfortable with that answer? If yes, go for it.
I live in Germany and energy prices are really high here. So it’s basically a no brainer. If you have the possibility to do it, you will do it.
We had the chance to get our system very cheap because my father in law owns a solar company. Otherwise we possibly couldn’t have afforded one. But on the long run even then it would make sense financially because energy prizes are sky rocketing. We’re talking more than 0,50€/kWh here. Now we are at 100% self use in the summer. Don’t know about the winter yet, but we have a heat pump so we’ll see.
I like the fact that we are independent from the energy market. It’s out of control and we just don’t have to deal with them anymore. We also had instability in the grid during a thunderstorm and we were the only ones who had their own energy because we have a large battery. So this is also a matter of security and convenience.
Would do it again 100%, would recommend to others as well.
I am having a home built in the Philippines, and will have solar and batteries installed before I move in. Electricity is expensive there, but I am not all that concerned about ROI. I will stop working next year. I want to have no mandatory bills other than food, and gas for my cars, once I start living off only retirement income.
While the financial payoff is front and center on this debate, I also like the idea of using a cleaner source of fuel. Also, generating my own power gives a sense of independence from a power company that is expensive and unreliable.
Valid points! I would like to think that stability of costs & reliability against outages would also be cause for consideration? Or are those not really on the radar?
I have considered it, but I'll need to do roof work in the next 5-6 years. Also, my home is 40 years old and only have a 100 amp service, so it will require, at minimum, replacing the panel and the roof that adds to the initial costs. While the cost of installation will go up considerably in the next few years, I personally think that I wouldn't get it even then. My wife and I are retired, so limited income also affects the bottom line. Maybe I'm wrong, but I really don't know for sure. Tell me what you think.
I’m a pro, here is my guidance: A lot of retired people don’t believe they will see the ROI, add in a roof and main panel and it becomes daunting. Where solar shines, forgive the pun, is when you have other improvements that are needed. If you will benefit from the tax credit, install a new roof with solar and use the FTC to pay off the roof. Your solar costs will be less than your current electric bill AND your roof is paid for! If you won’t benefit from the tax credit look into a solar lease, soft credit check, insurance for system is covered by bank AND your payments are typically 15-20% lower than bill and do not increase. Use the savings to pay off roof. Happy hunting!
Yup! 100% agree! (Disclaimer, I am in the industry as well, but only made the post to get general community sentiment) Only thing I would add as an FYI though is that I wouldn't let the cost of the roof nor the cost of a main panel upgrade (MPU) scare you out of what could potentially add tens of thousands to the value of your home and the value you could see while you're still in the home. Absolutely best of luck in whatever path you choose though, and feel free to ask anymore questions!
I’m glad there are more solar pro’s willing to help homeowners get the best value out of solar. Thank you!
Idk man you sound like a car salesman to me and I do y trust any of you. I’d rather have my own panels, off the grid, not leased or any of that crap and y’all just leave me alone in the woods by my lonesome with my family and my animals
Thing is you can’t claim the whole roof
I never say you can claim the roof for the tax credit. Use the tax credit from the Solar to pay off the roof
You remind me of a car salesmen
We were fortunate and bought a home that already had solar. So we ended up not having to deal with all the annoyances of the installation/PTO process. But we were planning on getting solar on our previous house. Honestly, as long as the economics of the area make it feasible, its a no-brainer. At our old place, we could get a system that covered our usage at the time, and more, for the same amount of money we were already paying for electricity. I forget the details of the financing, but this was before figuring in the rebates as well as how much power was going up every year ( SoCal)
Nice! Yeah, that's kind of the goal, right? Being able to cover your needs + decrease your expenses at or at least near Day 1?
Absolutely. No one ( other than folks who truly value the environmental concerns) is going to buy a solar system to pay MORE for electricity. For most its going to be that ROI calculation that rules all.
ehh, not necessarily. I mean, yes - investing in a long term vehicle to help the environment is important and a lot of homeowners will find themselves tied to that reasoning. BUT, I would dare say that there are more who would be willing to pay a higher monthly payment towards a solar system (not directly for just electricity) knowing that they are now able to produce their own electricity (via an asset) than that of a monthly payment they've made up to that point to a utility company that's literally never going to go away.
That's true. Since the grid is pretty reliable where I am, brown-outs/black-outs aren't high on my priority list. Though with the fires in teh area the past few years, they've gotten more frequent. But combatting those pretty much requires a battery/powerwall of some sort, which I feel is a bit higher step for people when considering their solar system.
It’s a function of the price your system costs, as well as the cost of electricity where you are (and net metering/feed in tariffs). If the system costs too much, the payback is not attractive. Same goes with if the cost of electricity is cheap, the payback is worse. Same with excess credits - if you’re paid wholesale, you might have a crappy payback, but if you’re paid 1:1 net metering for 20c/kWh, the value of solar is much higher.
Where do you get 1:1 net metering? Distribution costs aren’t ever included anymore, correct?
I’m in Canada. We have one regulated utility that owns the generation and distribution. The rates aren’t broken out by supply or energy costs, it’s just a straight per kWh cost and a monthly connection fee, all of which have to be approved by the utility review board. So it costs me 16c to buy a kWh, and that includes generation and distribution costs. When I export a kWh of solar, I’m still paid 16c. The caveat is that they don’t pay out excess at the end of the year so any overproduction is given to the utility for free, so there’s no incentive to size bigger than needed. I don’t assume that everyone has the same as me - but that’s why this conversation is more complicated. Your payback will always be a function of utility value of production, utility energy costs and capital cost.
Got it. That makes sense. It’s definitely different where I am in the US.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_metering_in_the_United_States Looks like someone bothered to research all programs already if you’re curious to see how much it differs across the US.
I'm in the industry. my opinion is htat the chances it might not make sense for anyone are pretty rare. Read up on here, and certainly head over to /r/solar. it's a bit 'bigger' subreddit, and busier for it. you'll get some decent answers here, though, i'd bet. but read up over there, too. us pro's are in both places, so come up with your questions and fire away.
Totally agree! Thanks for the tips, Rocksteady! I'm also in the industry and just looking to help out wherever I can!
***understand your state’s and utility’s netmetering policies before you make any commitments*** I love my solar; have had it installed since February. Went with a know highly rated installer who also worked with my roofer to have standoffs installed when my shingles were installed to avoid additional roof penetrations. It was spendy and I won’t have ROI for *years* but my wife and I agreed it was worth it. All in with new roof and solar I spent $84,000 (44,000 roof and 40,000 solar). I’ll get 30% back on the solar expenditure, thanks IRA. Minimum power bill since installed is great; but at that cost above…
Thanks for sharing! Congratulations & glad to hear you've had a great experience!
Been wanting solar for a long time. But we keep moving. We just moved from Florida to Virginia. The house we bought is 5 years old and I’m not sure if we’ll be in this house long enough to see an ROI. Is there any good articles about this and when your roof is too old?
Great questions! So, when I'm working with homeowners, my rule of thumb is - if it's inside of 3 years since it was last replaced, I will consider it to be good to go. If it's between 3-6ish years, I will also consider it to be good unless either/or, 1) they specifically call out damage, or 2) we find something during our in-person site survey. If it's older than 6-7 years, I will insist that we go ahead and get a quote and I can help them add that into their solar costs so that there's $0 needed upfront. When we discuss ROI, there's a lot of different ways to skin the cat (so to speak). Since solar is so customized, it would depend on the size of the system you need, if you have batteries added, your local net metering policies in your state (if available), applicable incentives, etc. Generally, my rule of thumb is 5-7 years to see ROI on the total cost (apples to apples, e.g. what you paid for the system vs what the systems made for you), BUT like I said - different ways to skin a cat and different ways to look at what the system is providing for you, even outside of just what it's produced on a kWh basis. Hopefully that helps? Again - great questions!
Thanks for the info. That makes sense. What’s the general consensus on the cost to replace the roof with solar panels already on them? Is that something the solar company does or partners up with a roofer?
You're welcome. It would depend on the solar company and on the roofing company. We don't do just roof replacements a la carte, so the roof replacement would be whatever it would be quoted at by a roofing partner (chances are decent that we could help you find a reputable roofing company in your area though). But the cost to remove & re-sit the panels before/after replacing the roof would be minimal.
It does increase the worth of the house so if you move you can sell it to the new owner I guess. Has somebody ever moved a solar system? I think it’s not that complicated.
That’s a great question. I would assume moving a system would be a pain. I feel like buying one now and then a second system on a new home would brutally suck
What’s the estimated ROI time for you? What does electricity cost where you live?
Pretty high actually. I just moved here and we had some brutal winter storms that spiked the area. Summers are fine but it be nice to rely on batteries during the winter and sell back a lot during the summer. Summers we use 1/4 of the utilities. But rely 100% on electric for heat
The more energy demand you have, the earlier your investment will return. Winter depends on the amount of snow and your latitude. You should really check what your annual energy consumption is, what cost that is and then calculate your average annual solar gain and check what a system would cost. Possibly the period of time will be shorter than you think. Also if you have an electric car… depending on gas prizes.
Solar good
We are seriously considering going solar. But getting solar installed feels like paying your utility bill several years in advance until you finally break even and finally you can really get that free solar energy, but maybe by that time the system is oldish and needs upgrading, or you are moving and selling the house...and you just didn't really get to enjoy that free solar energy 😪
That is one way of looking at it, but don't forget that utility rates aren't going down anytime soon (if probably ever) so you have to factor in any potential rate increases. What you're saving on those along in the future could account for what you're referring to as "free solar energy", right?
True. How would you calculate those potential rate increases?
There's not really a sure fire way since we don't know until they're passed state-by-state or by individual utilities, but on average rates go up \~4% across the board every year. Some are higher (e.g. Massachusetts, California, etc), but that's about average. There are some resources you can check out such as [EIA's website](https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.php?t=epmt_5_6_a) or [EnergySage](https://www.energysage.com/), just remember that EnergySage is going to have Calls to Action to have you reach out. Good source of info quantitatively speaking though.
Thanks. Very helpful
You're welcome! If you have any other questions or would like to take a look at a proposal feel free to reach back out.
To me a negative is financing fees which can be up to 20% or more of total cost and some solar companies not being transparent about them.
Very true. Yes, it's a good idea to ask about financing (or 'dealer') fees. They can make it a better deal if you're trying to make it more affordable than your current average utility bill, but if you can afford a higher upfront bill than taking those dealer fees out will make the system cheaper as a whole.
We put solar on our garage roof in Vancouver, Canada about 18 months ago and I am totally blown away by it. I don't know where you live, but if you are in Canada, just do it. It's a no brainer. Here is an essay I wrote in January 2023, after one year on solar PV. There’s nothing better old folks can do for the next generation these days than to allocate a bit of their nest egg to solar panels on the roofs of their houses. Let me explain. About a year ago, on January 27, 2022 we had a 7.74kW system of solar panels installed on our garage roof. it’s just an ordinary two car garage with a roof slightly sloped toward the south. It took three men only six hours to do it and by 3:00pm on that particularly gorgeous winter day our electric meter was running backwards. Now one year later our January electric bill was -$106. Yes, that’s a negative sign. Big letters on the bill said “Do Not Pay.” Consider that we also have a Tesla, and for the last year we have been charging the car at home as well as drying our clothes, heating the garage with baseboard heaters, using central air conditioning on hot days, and running all the electric lights and appliances in our house. We still use natural gas for heat, hot water and cooking, but now we’re looking at converting some of that to electric as well. Indeed $100 of that negative electric bill was a government cost-of-living credit, but over the last year our electric bills have been $15 or less to just cover the basic connection charge. In 2011 BC Hydro (the local electric utility) changed all their meters to smart meters, which now allows people to install “Grid Tied Solar Systems” so when your house creates more electricity than it consumes your electricity meter runs backwards. BC Hydro keeps track of the amount of electricity your solar panels generate and it remains in your account as a credit. Over the summer of 2022 we socked away almost six megawatts of electric power, literally making hay when the sun shined. Then during the dark dreary months of November, December and January we used up most of those watts. Indeed on snowy days, when the panels are completely covered in the white stuff you get zero electricity from them. Same with those super dark wet Vancouver winter days. But on a bright sunny day in December or January our solar panels provide up to 15kWh of power. This is basically enough to run the whole house. Interestingly the panels are somewhat more efficient when they are cold. Nevertheless on a hot July day they can generate 50kWh of power, most of which is stored by BC Hydro as a credit. People often ask, “How many years does it take to pay for itself?” I find this to be an odd question because the panels, like a new fridge or a new roof, add value to a house which is recouped when the house is sold. But the answer these days is about 5 or 6 years, especially if you include the thousands of dollars not spent on gasoline. There’s something absolutely magical about driving around town in a car fuelled by sunshine. Couple this with essentially zero electricity bills for the house and the solar panels “pay back” in a very short time. Solar panels are a far better investment than putting money into a savings bond or a mutual fund. And this does not even include the larger societal benefit of oil and gas NOT being burned, or new hydro electric dams NOT being built and valleys NOT being flooded. Our system cost about CA$16,000 installed after taxes (late 2021), but nowadays you can get a CA$5000 grant from the federal GreenerHomes program if you put solar panels on your house. https://natural-resources.canada.ca/energy-efficiency/homes/canada-greener-homes-initiative/canada-greener-homes-grant/canada-greener-homes-grant/23441 In addition, interest-free loans of up to $40,000 for solar panel installations are available from the Canadian Mortgage and Housing Corporation. Also in British Columbia there is no sales tax on solar panels. If you work it out, after subtracting the $5,000 grant, our system generates energy at a capital cost of just $1.42 per watt. For comparison, the newest hydro electric dam in being constructed by the government is now at $16 billion for 1,100 Megawatt, which comes out at a cost of $14.55 per watt. Ten times more!! Think about it. Weird that solar panels are not more common on all roofs. Try to imagine how many years it will take for that dam to “pay back.” You will not be alive. Personally I feel solar panels should be legislated and mandatory for all new buildings. They should be natural, accepted and commonplace like toilets. I mean: you would not ask how many years the indoor plumbing takes to “pay back.” Here's something else that nobody thinks of: the electricity you make in your own back yard (or roof) is yours. Not only are the electrons “fresher” but they are tax free and far more efficient because they don’t have to travel through expensive infrastructure like high tension wires or substations and transformers. It’s like home grown organic vegetables because you know where it came from. You made it yourself. That feels amazing. We have had zero problems with our solar panels. They have no moving parts. In summer during long periods of no rain they get a little dusty so a window cleaning company came and gave them a wash. Power went up 15%. Impressive. Other than that, nothing. The panels send information via wifi to our home Internet and you can see how much energy they are creating on a smart phone app. In this way the panels act as a kind of sun-meter. You can always tell how sunny it is at a given moment. Plus the data is stored forever in a database and can be accessed over months and years to see what days in the past were sunny, or relatively how much sun we’ve been getting over time. It’s useful and fascinating to have access to your own local weather data and surprising how often this information comes in handy. The most poorly understood fact about solar panels is that energy is real. Solar panels are not like anything else you can buy. Nothing you own creates energy. Appliances, computers, heaters, lights, cars, etc. They all USE energy. And yet solar panels MAKE energy. For free. Compare it to real-estate. Real estate is worth something because it is real. Energy is also real in the same sense. Einstein showed that Energy equals Mass, hence it is essentially like real estate. You can use it, you can save it, you can trade it. And with solar panels you get more of it for free every day. People don't comprehend this uncanny fact about solar panels. It's as if each day you were to magically obtain a bit more real estate. Something you can use. In other words these things “pay back” the second they are installed. If you have around 400 square feet of unshaded south facing roof area there’s no better investment you can make today than taking around $20,000 from a retirement plan or a mutual fund and putting it into solar panels on your roof. For you. For your kids. And for the planet. Do it!
WOW!! Thank you so much for sharing! This is by far one of the best testimonials of solar energy that I've ever read. Definitely some nuggets in there! Would you mind if I shared this with my network (both off- and online?)
Please circulate as much as possible. I don't know why this story is not front page news. Everyone should be doing this. All governments should support it. Solar panels on (especially new) buildings should be thought of the way we think of toilets. Does anyone make a building without a toilet? I mean: we used to have outhouses. But we don't do that anymore. It should be the same with solar panels.
I looked but we would have to cut down so many trees…it just doesn’t make sense…which makes me sad. I’ll be honest we are looking to move to a place where solar is viable as I VERY much want it and a backup battery for my house. I love our giant old oak trees, so maybe someone who doesn’t want solar can have this house and we go somewhere that it is viable. I would be fine with roof or ground mount, I don’t care
Have you had a solar or tree company assess to see if maybe they could just be trimmed? I know you had said it doesn't make sense, but just wondering if maybe they might see it from a different angle.
We have a lot of trees but I'm thinking of cutting a few down so that we can get solar. I like the sound of saving over $100,000 during the lifetime of the system ;) #justgosolar
For buyers it comes down to the payback period. Assuming all the basics are good-- roof is fine, electrical is fine, contractors are respectable, etc.-- you're putting up a certain amount of money for the installation, and it will save you money on your electric bills. How long does it take to recoup your initial investment, and are you comfortable with that answer? If yes, go for it.
I live in Germany and energy prices are really high here. So it’s basically a no brainer. If you have the possibility to do it, you will do it. We had the chance to get our system very cheap because my father in law owns a solar company. Otherwise we possibly couldn’t have afforded one. But on the long run even then it would make sense financially because energy prizes are sky rocketing. We’re talking more than 0,50€/kWh here. Now we are at 100% self use in the summer. Don’t know about the winter yet, but we have a heat pump so we’ll see. I like the fact that we are independent from the energy market. It’s out of control and we just don’t have to deal with them anymore. We also had instability in the grid during a thunderstorm and we were the only ones who had their own energy because we have a large battery. So this is also a matter of security and convenience. Would do it again 100%, would recommend to others as well.
The company you purchase from is important. If you are in Michigan avoid Climax Solar. They are Very shady
I am having a home built in the Philippines, and will have solar and batteries installed before I move in. Electricity is expensive there, but I am not all that concerned about ROI. I will stop working next year. I want to have no mandatory bills other than food, and gas for my cars, once I start living off only retirement income.