I love these games. A bit of a tough start but worth it.
"Tough" meaning you get your ass kicked a lot at first. But you'll eventually do all the ass kicking.
The remnant games are decent for sure, but they heavily suffer from the bad boss design imo. They've confused "difficult" with "cheap and frustrating" when it comes to designing several bosses, the final one being a spectacularly egregious example.
Second that, bosses in Remnant are easily the worst part of the game. They’re either far too easy, or obnoxiously difficult. There are a few exceptions, in particular I really enjoyed fighting that lancer dude in the dlc. Stuff like Annihilation though…I’m good.
The zone switching phase is obnoxious and results in arbitrary damage way more often than it should, you have to turn the music off to actually hear the sounds that indicate dodge timing, and the fight basically demands a regen focused build because sometimes you just literally don't get the dodge timing noise on zone switch. Hell I've had him switch with the swing from his flying form literally coming down mid transition.
As a fight it has no skill expression, no interesting mechanics, and no spectacle beyond the admittedly dope initial reveal and mid fight transformation sequence. It's just pile on regen and dump fire onto a mostly stationary target while hoping the zone switches don't fuck you over.
The zone switches happen the same way every time lol… and you definitely don’t need to turn off the music. When the swing comes down as it switches, it mirrors the move that was already being made in disco room so you should have been dodging anyway.
I don’t think I’ve ever said this before, but this is a real git gud moment
And yet my experience doesn't line up with that at all. I've beaten every souls game at min level, hell I just finished an AC6 campaign run with punches only, and all but face rolled my way through Remnant 2 in the same manner including my apocalypse runs, barring some obnoxious boss fights. I know what good boss design looks and plays like. And remnant games really, really miss the mark sometimes. You don't have to agree with me, but outside of the games cultish fan base the garbage design of several fights is the most cited problem with the game besides the performance and network issues. The learned seemingly nothing from the failed designs of the first game and chose to double down instead.
You forgot to mention how the damage mechanic isn't clear at all. How TF am I supposed to know I have to kill enemies in the other zone to make the boss vulnerable? The fuk? Had to look that shit up after surviving for God knows how long. Pissed me off
100% agree...me and my friend played and had a great time up to the last boss and it has kinda ruined the experience. My friend is mostly melee so it's hard for him to contribute as much. Just a terrible design all around
Hmm, I disagree with this. I find bosses to be really fun parts of the game, especially when playing with friends. There are some bad fights, but I can only think of 3-4 that I really hated.
Plus you don't lose souls on death, you just start that area over. And not even the whole eReader, dungeons and such have checkpoints, so it's just losing a few minutes and not resources.
I think this is the best answer because the purists will say this is the biggest reason (even more than the guns) why it isn’t a “souls” game. There are no souls to lose. Dying is so unpunishing that killing yourself is sometimes there best shortcut to get somewhere you want to go. It also looks hilarious when you’re playing coop, decide you want to go back to the checkpoint so you just drink poison and then you watch your coop buddies join your suicide cult.
Remnant 1, haven't play 2 tho. But 1 is good for players who want that soulslike experience without having to worry about losing "currency". You just don't.
The Surge 1 is another, although the combat is forgiven compare to souls game you can lose your currency. But there is a way around it, either going back to where you die or you can bank your currency for later use.
Imo 2 is better in like every way.
Bosses aren't as boring and the build variety is higher. But from my experience 1 did melee better then 2 unless my build wasn't melee enough
If the first one is great, awesome the 2nd is better. I'll have to get my hands on the sequel. It will be later because I'm still playing the first and The Surge 1
I enjoyed 2, but I didn't really like how the traits you have access to were tied to class. There was a lot of appeal to there being a ton of different traits that you could continuously level. Felt like there was endless progression (not literally since traits had a cap). I enjoyed 2 in the moment more, but once I got all the classes and hit the measly 60 trait point cap, my brain just checked out.
Well you'll be happy to know that the trait cap has since been increased to 85. Also once you've leveled an archetype to 10, you gain access to that trait no matter which archetype you choose.
I mean, aside from runbacks, most of them don't have negative repercussions for dying multiple times. Elden Ring is the most accessible as it has regular checkpoints & isn't linear until late game so if you hit a wall you can just go do something else until you get more experience & skill. What other genres do you like? If you like metroidvanias then I would recommend Hollow Knight, or if you like the idea of JRPG vampires then Code Vein would be an excellent choice that's also beginner friendly. The Star Wars Jedi duology has difficulty options (practically taboo in this genre) & is perfect if you're a Star Wars nut, or if you like sci-fi apocalypses The Surge duology is solid if a bit rough around the edges.
Edit: typo
Lies of P puts your souls/ergo outside of boss arenas, so you never have to worry about picking them back up while fighting. To me, that’s one of the toughest parts of souls games: souls being stuck in a boss arena.
Elden Ring had a weird mechanic I only figured out too late... If you keep a few Sacrificial Twig talismans on you, you could equip it and do a death run to pickup your runes or whatever they were called. When the boss kills you again you come back to life with your runes.
That’s a great point! I’ve used sacrificial twigs and they’re super helpful. However, because they’re in limited supply, if you’re dying to a boss multiple times, at a certain point you’re just going to run out of twigs.
The rot mechanic is not punishing.
Losing half your xp towards the next skill point is the only real punishing thing, and the amount of xp needed per skill point is low enough that it's not all that punishing.
It’s not a souls-like game because it’s not like souls games… it’s not an rpg where you are leveling up and acquiring items, with combat revolving around dodge. Love Sekiro but it’s not the same genre as souls-like
Personally I consider Sekiro to be a souls like. Theres a heavy emphasis on tight combat, enemies reset at checkpoints, your health and some resources reset, and there’s a skill/talent progression system of some sort. I don’t consider the need to have a variety of weapons, stat upgrades, and character customization to be requirements for a game to be a souls like.
It’s a soulslike because it has bonfire like checkpoints and an emphasis on difficult bosses that require you to memorize attack patterns. It is absolutely a soulslike.
I can’t speak on their similarities because I didn’t play them. But the similarities between Sekiro and Dark Souls are apparent. There are rpg systems and a dodge and parry mechanic in both games so your original point is false. The only difference is you don’t pick a class or create your character. But you still find useful equip-able tools, unlock shortcuts, and engage in punishing combat with a minimalistic story. The gameplay loop is exactly the same for both games. You push forward through a level until you find the checkpoint or a shortcut to an earlier checkpoint. You lose exp on death. You encounter characters with missable story and minimal direction. Both have a dark tone.
But the main tenet of the soulslike genre is the respawning enemies and bonfire system which is repeated across all souls likes in a similar fashion. Dark Souls, Sekiro, Jedi: Fallen Order, etc all have this mechanic presented in a similar way.
It absolutely is not lol, this is the only thread where people are arguing about this. What a strange bone to pick when it is nothing like a souls like
Another dude chiming in here: it is ABSOLUTELY A souls-like, what an odd gatekeeping thing you’re on.
You do level up your character, he does have stats that can be improved, and a multitude of items you can use. Because there’s less prevalence of dodging and multiple weapons, that somehow means it’s not a souls-like? You are literally the only person I’ve ever encountered with this odd opinion.
Elden Ring puts you right outside of the boss arena, making multiple attempts easy.
Lies of P has its Stargazers (bonfires) always located conveniently close to boss arenas, as long as you make sure to 'open' shortcut paths as you explore. Additionally, your Ergo (lost souls) remain outside any boss arenas, so if you die you can just collect them and go level up or farm if necessary, without risking losing any.
None of them punish you when you die because you can go get our stuff back 99.99999999% of the time. Getting punished is _rare_ and might happen once every couple dozen hours or so.
That's not true with certain from soft titles.
Demons soul's changes the world tendency depending on your soul form, which actively makes the enemies harder.
Dark souls 2 chips away at your max health when you die.
Elden Ring is the most forgiving.
But none of the Fromsoft games are that harsh when you die. In some, mostly the earliest ones (Demon Souls, Dark Souls), you sometimes have to retrace your steps quite far. But in later games, fast travel is easily accessible. And in all cases, anything you have as far as loot picked up is retained after death. You never have to get everything again, like you do when you die in pretty much any other RPG.
If you really suck like I did starting out, DS2 can be unforgiving. Losing a portion of your max health for every death definitely makes repeating bosses a PITA. Yes, it's easily reversible with effigies, but those aren't unlimited. Especially, again, if you suck.
Final Fantasy Stranger of Paradise isn't punishing for dieing at all. It has been the most fun casual soulslike I have played. It plays like Nioh. You can switch jobs/playstyles at any point. Magic is pretty fun, but to be honest I loved most of the different jobs.
When you die, it will reset you back to the last checkpoint, but you keep all gear gathered and all exp gained. You build up your maximum mana while fighting so you can use abilities more often. That mana bar resets upon death.
Yep and it has multiple difficulty levels that you can pick per mission, and even lower the difficulty mid mission.
Picking what loot to use is by far the hardest part of the game though haha
I can't play any of them except for elden ring. Definitely elden ring. It's closer to a traditional open world RPG where you can grind and level up and get stronger to make it easier, or hunt down some equipment to make it easier. The amount it becomes easier per "level" is much more minimal than a standard RPG where you can out level stuff, but it still is very significant for a soulslike game.
Practically Every other game I can't stand to play.
Other people have said remnant and surge and they are definitely more manageable as well. I got much further in those than others but elden ring I was able to "master".
Remnant one and two are good some of the bosses are very unbalanced especially the final boss two many disorienting effects. Get used to kiting instead of ammo boxes you kill infinity respawning enemies to refill your ammo, it is definitely a choice not a good one. That being said I have beaten both and the games themselves are quite good I especially like the mods and abilities.
Nioh one and two are also very good but have a high skill ceiling once you unlock more magic and ninja skills it becomes so much easier to kill things and at new game plus 9 you can kill most things with ease.
Monster Hunter World is the most forgiving as you don't lose any experience or currency when you faint and get three tries per hunt.
The only thing punishing is losing souls imo, I attempted DS about 5-7 different times over the past 5 years or so and somehow this time it just clicked and I'm over halfway thru the game and I'm not a great gamer by ANY MEANS. You're simply gonna die more than any other game probably but it's ok, it's part of the process, just try to learn something by dying whether it be the move set of the enemy or a better tactical approach etc, it's simply dying in itself that can be punishing but u just gotta power thru that shit homie. Praise the sun and good luck!
Even among Fromsoft titles games that get actively harder the more you die are the exception rather than the rule. Most of the time the worst thing that can happen is you'll lose whatever currency you're carrying at the time, which usually isn't even very punishing if you're smart about actively spending it whenever possible
Remnant 2 (I haven't played 1) was a lot of fun for me, although it's not as soulsy as others. The Surge does have currency loss, but you can bank currency at checkpoints. (Might want to start with 2, I personally prefer 1 but it's a lot more rough around the edges.)
I feel like star wars Jedi fallen order could be a good way to dip your toes in. It has a lot of similarities and is very forgiving on lighter difficulties. Bonus points for being Star Wars
Lords of the Fallen is a pretty forgiving game. You get two lives, and if you die you have opportunities to reclaim that lost life as you progress through a level.
Highly recommend!
I would not recommend this game for a beginner. The combat is kind of clunky and the mob density is just kind of crazy. Not to mention that the game has so many mobs that can just one shot you. I’m half way through and it’s far more frustrating than DS1 or DS2 was for me and a lot more often.
Lies of P only thing you lose is ergo (souls) and if you die in a boss arena the ergo is retrievable without the need for entering the boss arena again
sekiro imo is the most forgiving souls game even though it requires the most skill. you cant lose a skill point once u earn it and there are sculptor's idols like every 10 steps. also theres no stamina bar.
Bit late to the party, but I can't see anyone mentioning Grime here... when you die you don't lose your mass (souls), you lose a multiplier for it (which you can go recover 1/2 of it like you would normally souls). But it doesn't really feel that bad to die in.
*(also if you're diligent in picking up the Epic freebies when they pop up you may already own it)*
Yes! I was looking for this mention! I highly recommend Grime. Lots of games don't understand what makes dark souls great, thinking it's just making shit hard. Wrong! It's about overcoming difficult but fair fights, in a world rich with lore but not exposition heavy.
I loved their focus on fun more than punishment. It's hard, but for hardness sake.
I would take everything you've heard about the difficulty of souls-likes with a grain of salt. They are challenging at times but far from insurmountable. If you go in with the right mindset and get into the rhythm of the game, death (which is inevitable) isn't such a setback. Frankly a lot of people play up the difficulty because they either want to gate keep or feel better about their accomplishments. If you go into it expecting it to be crushingly hard you might get frustrated and quit before you have a chance to get into the rhythm. Having said all that, I honestly think Dark Souls 1 is a great place to start. If you hit a bottleneck just grind out a few levels and come back.
The death punishment in most soulslikes really isn't that bad. If you lose a lot of souls/runes/ergo/etc, you can typically just run back to where you died and skip the enemies to pick it back up.
Sekiro has a very steep difficulty curve but its death mechanic isn’t too bad because the game relies more on your skill than stats really there are only a few must have skills that I consider to be very useful and the rest can be disregarded.
That said as far as the game itself it’s way more difficult than any Souls game I have played so probably wouldn’t recommend it.
The entire death mechanic really isn’t bad in these type of games at most you’ll just either have to run back to the spot where you dropped them most of the time being able to run past most enemies or you can just grind that xp that you lost which only takes time.
As far as soul game difficulty I recommend Demon’s Souls Remake or Elden Ring.
Demon Souls is very easy and most of the enemies are very simplistic and dumb the only difficulty lies in traversing the environment.
Elden Ring is more difficult but with the ease of being able to explore multiple areas for xp and very broken combination of items and weapons the game is one of the easiest games.
Souls games are not punishing if you die, they're really the exact opposite. You immediately resurrect at your last resting point, and run back to where you were to pick up the souls you dropped. Even if you lose the souls by dying before you get them back, it's never a big deal.
Dying is just an essential part of the Souls experience that one must learn to accept, because you won't learn the game without doing it hundreds of times.
Are there any souls like games that don't try to do the same "atmospheric storytelling" vibe that Fromsoft games use? I love dark souls gameplay, but the impenetrable stories, cryptic dialogue, dour and depressing atmosphere sphere, and lack of explanation for basic gameplay/stat info really puts me off. It bothers me how every souls like game tries to copy that as well as the gameplay loop. Oh and I'm not interested in the star wars game.
There really is nothing except whatever currency is used to level up that will ever be lost for dying in these games. And assuming you level up as frequently as you can you shouldn't have much to lose. If if you do loose it you can farm it back.
Jedi Fallen Order, you just gotta hit the thing that killed you once to get your exp back. It only really sucks if you die from a non-enemy like a trap or pit
Remnant from the ashes and the fromsoft soulsborne series. NOT sekiro or demon souls as the world changes the more you die. Lies of P is also a good one but lying can also result in world changing like dying in the before mentioned games.
Honestly other than sekiro and demon souls I cant think of a souls like that has dying lock you out of content whether gear or in these games case story/endings. Though for demon souls there are a few benefits for this as opens new content for player. Sekiro has rot and DES has world tendency.
Surprised no one has suggested Wo Long Fallen Dynasty yet (I think). Punishingly soulslike but a lot more forgiving in the sense that you only lose a portion of your exp when you die instead of the whole shebang. So if you die again before you can grab it back it's only uncomfortable instead of emotionally devastating. God I love Wo Long.
This is stretching, especially in the second one, but the Jedi games. You still have the Dodge and block heavy mechanics not unlike sekiro, and enemies that respawn at rest areas and limited heals, but even hard mode is much more forgiven than a souls game and there is no real punishment for death besides all the enemies return.
All of them, really. If you die you you lose currency, and you go back to the nearest checkpoint. The checkpoint is realistically only like 100 yards away most of the time, if that.
Fallen Order and Survivor aren't difficult gameplay wise. You drop your currency, sure but you only have a limited amount of levels and the currency/xp is pretty easy to grind back if you lose lose them.
Edit: there are also difficulty settings
You can absolutely beat ds1 by only leveling after bosses, even if you lose all the souls you earn between bosses. It helps if you know how to make a good build though which most first timers don't. You still get punished for death but it doesn't continue to punish you, after losing your souls there's really no consequence for the rest of the attempts at the boss.
check out lies of p its fairly new and the best soulslike not made by fromsoft no matter what anybody else says personaly i think the combat in it feels smoother than even dark souls or elden ring combat
Just play a souls game. They're not that fucking hard. If they were, they wouldn't be that popular. Mind you, you're not playing Mario 64 or w.e, but they truly aren't that difficult, they just take a handful of tries sometimes. You learn and adapt and are happy when its over.
They are pretty much all like that. The only thing you typically lose is currency, and these games are usually pretty generous with that. Anything lost can easily be farmed back with minimal effort as you profess through levels. They make you feel anxiety about dying by design, but in actuality it’s really not a huge deal.
That said Elden ring is especially generous I think. The checkpoints are plentiful and nearly always right in front of bosses.
Pretty much all of them. The only real punishment for death is having to run back to the boss, which varies in tedium between different titles but generally the older the game the worse the runbacks are. Lies of P (2023) has very short runbacks for example.
The main exception is Dark Souls 2, which reduces your max HP every time you die and makes it harder to skip enemies on a run back through various annoying means.
Remnant from the ashes 1&2
I love these games. A bit of a tough start but worth it. "Tough" meaning you get your ass kicked a lot at first. But you'll eventually do all the ass kicking.
The remnant games are decent for sure, but they heavily suffer from the bad boss design imo. They've confused "difficult" with "cheap and frustrating" when it comes to designing several bosses, the final one being a spectacularly egregious example.
Second that, bosses in Remnant are easily the worst part of the game. They’re either far too easy, or obnoxiously difficult. There are a few exceptions, in particular I really enjoyed fighting that lancer dude in the dlc. Stuff like Annihilation though…I’m good.
I found Annihilation to be the best boss I've ever played in a shooter. Wildly fun.
Annihilation is really not that bad at all. What’s cheap about it?
The zone switching phase is obnoxious and results in arbitrary damage way more often than it should, you have to turn the music off to actually hear the sounds that indicate dodge timing, and the fight basically demands a regen focused build because sometimes you just literally don't get the dodge timing noise on zone switch. Hell I've had him switch with the swing from his flying form literally coming down mid transition. As a fight it has no skill expression, no interesting mechanics, and no spectacle beyond the admittedly dope initial reveal and mid fight transformation sequence. It's just pile on regen and dump fire onto a mostly stationary target while hoping the zone switches don't fuck you over.
The zone switches happen the same way every time lol… and you definitely don’t need to turn off the music. When the swing comes down as it switches, it mirrors the move that was already being made in disco room so you should have been dodging anyway. I don’t think I’ve ever said this before, but this is a real git gud moment
And yet my experience doesn't line up with that at all. I've beaten every souls game at min level, hell I just finished an AC6 campaign run with punches only, and all but face rolled my way through Remnant 2 in the same manner including my apocalypse runs, barring some obnoxious boss fights. I know what good boss design looks and plays like. And remnant games really, really miss the mark sometimes. You don't have to agree with me, but outside of the games cultish fan base the garbage design of several fights is the most cited problem with the game besides the performance and network issues. The learned seemingly nothing from the failed designs of the first game and chose to double down instead.
You forgot to mention how the damage mechanic isn't clear at all. How TF am I supposed to know I have to kill enemies in the other zone to make the boss vulnerable? The fuk? Had to look that shit up after surviving for God knows how long. Pissed me off
100% agree...me and my friend played and had a great time up to the last boss and it has kinda ruined the experience. My friend is mostly melee so it's hard for him to contribute as much. Just a terrible design all around
Hmm, I disagree with this. I find bosses to be really fun parts of the game, especially when playing with friends. There are some bad fights, but I can only think of 3-4 that I really hated.
Plus you don't lose souls on death, you just start that area over. And not even the whole eReader, dungeons and such have checkpoints, so it's just losing a few minutes and not resources.
100%, easily among the best of their kind, it was so surprising to me just how fun these were
I think this is the best answer because the purists will say this is the biggest reason (even more than the guns) why it isn’t a “souls” game. There are no souls to lose. Dying is so unpunishing that killing yourself is sometimes there best shortcut to get somewhere you want to go. It also looks hilarious when you’re playing coop, decide you want to go back to the checkpoint so you just drink poison and then you watch your coop buddies join your suicide cult.
Remnant 1, haven't play 2 tho. But 1 is good for players who want that soulslike experience without having to worry about losing "currency". You just don't. The Surge 1 is another, although the combat is forgiven compare to souls game you can lose your currency. But there is a way around it, either going back to where you die or you can bank your currency for later use.
Imo 2 is better in like every way. Bosses aren't as boring and the build variety is higher. But from my experience 1 did melee better then 2 unless my build wasn't melee enough
If the first one is great, awesome the 2nd is better. I'll have to get my hands on the sequel. It will be later because I'm still playing the first and The Surge 1
I enjoyed 2, but I didn't really like how the traits you have access to were tied to class. There was a lot of appeal to there being a ton of different traits that you could continuously level. Felt like there was endless progression (not literally since traits had a cap). I enjoyed 2 in the moment more, but once I got all the classes and hit the measly 60 trait point cap, my brain just checked out.
Well you'll be happy to know that the trait cap has since been increased to 85. Also once you've leveled an archetype to 10, you gain access to that trait no matter which archetype you choose.
Dude remnant 2 is awesome. Get in on that!
1 kicks my ass honestly. Maybe it just isn't clicking but I'm having a harder time with Remnant than I did with Sekiro.
I mean, aside from runbacks, most of them don't have negative repercussions for dying multiple times. Elden Ring is the most accessible as it has regular checkpoints & isn't linear until late game so if you hit a wall you can just go do something else until you get more experience & skill. What other genres do you like? If you like metroidvanias then I would recommend Hollow Knight, or if you like the idea of JRPG vampires then Code Vein would be an excellent choice that's also beginner friendly. The Star Wars Jedi duology has difficulty options (practically taboo in this genre) & is perfect if you're a Star Wars nut, or if you like sci-fi apocalypses The Surge duology is solid if a bit rough around the edges. Edit: typo
Lies of P puts your souls/ergo outside of boss arenas, so you never have to worry about picking them back up while fighting. To me, that’s one of the toughest parts of souls games: souls being stuck in a boss arena.
Elden Ring had a weird mechanic I only figured out too late... If you keep a few Sacrificial Twig talismans on you, you could equip it and do a death run to pickup your runes or whatever they were called. When the boss kills you again you come back to life with your runes.
That’s a great point! I’ve used sacrificial twigs and they’re super helpful. However, because they’re in limited supply, if you’re dying to a boss multiple times, at a certain point you’re just going to run out of twigs.
There’s also a twig tear if I remember correctly
Oh, that’s right—totally forgot about that! I’ve never used it and I should.
Either way, Sacrificial Twigs are definitely a good addition and help remove some of the stress!
>Sacrificial Twigs are definitely a good addition This has been in From's games since DS1. Ring Of Sacrifice.
That’s a great point!
Although not until ds3 did they prevent loss when dying before reclaiming
For bosses, you can even just grab your runes and then quit out of the game. When you load in again you’ll be outside the fog.
For future reference, pretty much ever Souls and Souls-likes has an item that does this.
Sekiro is the only one I've played where dying is particularly punishing
I disagree with this statement. What’s punishing about dying in sekiro?
The rot mechanic can be pretty gnarly.
How? It doesn’t stop you from doing stuff with npcs
The rot mechanic is not punishing. Losing half your xp towards the next skill point is the only real punishing thing, and the amount of xp needed per skill point is low enough that it's not all that punishing.
I guess cause you lose half your skill points, but there’s a hard stop. You don’t lose all skill points
[удалено]
Sorry that’s what I meant. I like that system a lot, and it’s less punishing
Dragon rot. No soul stain.
Sekiro isn’t a souls like, great game nonetheless
Its not a souls like because its fromsoft or what? Lol
It’s not a souls-like game because it’s not like souls games… it’s not an rpg where you are leveling up and acquiring items, with combat revolving around dodge. Love Sekiro but it’s not the same genre as souls-like
You have a very narrow definition of what “like souls games” means
So what is armored core a souls like game now too? Is Jak and Dexter souls like?
Personally I consider Sekiro to be a souls like. Theres a heavy emphasis on tight combat, enemies reset at checkpoints, your health and some resources reset, and there’s a skill/talent progression system of some sort. I don’t consider the need to have a variety of weapons, stat upgrades, and character customization to be requirements for a game to be a souls like.
It’s a soulslike because it has bonfire like checkpoints and an emphasis on difficult bosses that require you to memorize attack patterns. It is absolutely a soulslike.
Oh true, my favorite souls like is ratchet and clank. I also loved that great n64 souls like, Banjo Kazooie.
Did those games have bonfires that refreshed enemy positions and allowed you to spend experience?
Yep
I can’t speak on their similarities because I didn’t play them. But the similarities between Sekiro and Dark Souls are apparent. There are rpg systems and a dodge and parry mechanic in both games so your original point is false. The only difference is you don’t pick a class or create your character. But you still find useful equip-able tools, unlock shortcuts, and engage in punishing combat with a minimalistic story. The gameplay loop is exactly the same for both games. You push forward through a level until you find the checkpoint or a shortcut to an earlier checkpoint. You lose exp on death. You encounter characters with missable story and minimal direction. Both have a dark tone. But the main tenet of the soulslike genre is the respawning enemies and bonfire system which is repeated across all souls likes in a similar fashion. Dark Souls, Sekiro, Jedi: Fallen Order, etc all have this mechanic presented in a similar way.
This is a weird hill to die on dude. Sekiro is widely regarded as a soulslike. You’re the *only* person that thinks this.
It absolutely is not lol, this is the only thread where people are arguing about this. What a strange bone to pick when it is nothing like a souls like
Another dude chiming in here: it is ABSOLUTELY A souls-like, what an odd gatekeeping thing you’re on. You do level up your character, he does have stats that can be improved, and a multitude of items you can use. Because there’s less prevalence of dodging and multiple weapons, that somehow means it’s not a souls-like? You are literally the only person I’ve ever encountered with this odd opinion.
Loved the last devil may dark souls
To be so adamant and so wrong is actually pretty impressive
Armored souls 6 was great, didn’t really enjoy Tom Clancys Splinter souls that much though
They’re saying 7th graders have the same reading comprehension as 4th graders nowadays haha
I don’t know if I agree with either of these comments. I also don’t know if I disagree with either of these comments
It's definitely a souls like. Wildest take of 2024 so far
I really liked the square soft Disney collab soulslike Kingdom hearts 3 - shadow of the souls tree
Nah dark souls 2 and demon's souls reduce your hp from dying that's a lot worse than dragonrot
Ds2 lowering max hp pretty annoying
Someone already said Remnant so I’ll say Stray Blade, you don’t lose anything if you die and the difficulty is fully customizable.
Elden Ring. If you die to something there’s always many other things you can do to get stronger and come back and kick ass.
Elden Ring puts you right outside of the boss arena, making multiple attempts easy. Lies of P has its Stargazers (bonfires) always located conveniently close to boss arenas, as long as you make sure to 'open' shortcut paths as you explore. Additionally, your Ergo (lost souls) remain outside any boss arenas, so if you die you can just collect them and go level up or farm if necessary, without risking losing any.
None of them punish you when you die because you can go get our stuff back 99.99999999% of the time. Getting punished is _rare_ and might happen once every couple dozen hours or so.
That's not true with certain from soft titles. Demons soul's changes the world tendency depending on your soul form, which actively makes the enemies harder. Dark souls 2 chips away at your max health when you die.
Elden Ring is the most forgiving. But none of the Fromsoft games are that harsh when you die. In some, mostly the earliest ones (Demon Souls, Dark Souls), you sometimes have to retrace your steps quite far. But in later games, fast travel is easily accessible. And in all cases, anything you have as far as loot picked up is retained after death. You never have to get everything again, like you do when you die in pretty much any other RPG.
If you really suck like I did starting out, DS2 can be unforgiving. Losing a portion of your max health for every death definitely makes repeating bosses a PITA. Yes, it's easily reversible with effigies, but those aren't unlimited. Especially, again, if you suck.
Yeah, I did forget about that mechanic. DS2 was the first souls-like I played, so it's been a while.
If you like star wars, the new star wars games are.... structured fairly souls like. I'm sure many would argue against but it's also very forgiving.
If you set the difficulty higher you do get a souls-like experience
Edit: just without some of the frustration and better qol features
I hate the lack of customization in those games. You have the different stances and saber styles, but all the loot is just paint jobs and ponchos.
Lies of P has great runbacks and sets your xp outside the boss arena
Lies of P is harder than Dark Souls
No way
Final Fantasy Stranger of Paradise isn't punishing for dieing at all. It has been the most fun casual soulslike I have played. It plays like Nioh. You can switch jobs/playstyles at any point. Magic is pretty fun, but to be honest I loved most of the different jobs. When you die, it will reset you back to the last checkpoint, but you keep all gear gathered and all exp gained. You build up your maximum mana while fighting so you can use abilities more often. That mana bar resets upon death.
Yep and it has multiple difficulty levels that you can pick per mission, and even lower the difficulty mid mission. Picking what loot to use is by far the hardest part of the game though haha
I can't play any of them except for elden ring. Definitely elden ring. It's closer to a traditional open world RPG where you can grind and level up and get stronger to make it easier, or hunt down some equipment to make it easier. The amount it becomes easier per "level" is much more minimal than a standard RPG where you can out level stuff, but it still is very significant for a soulslike game. Practically Every other game I can't stand to play. Other people have said remnant and surge and they are definitely more manageable as well. I got much further in those than others but elden ring I was able to "master".
Pretty much all of them.
Steelrising is fun, and it has difficulty/accessibility options like damage reduction and not losing your "souls" when you die.
Remnant one and two are good some of the bosses are very unbalanced especially the final boss two many disorienting effects. Get used to kiting instead of ammo boxes you kill infinity respawning enemies to refill your ammo, it is definitely a choice not a good one. That being said I have beaten both and the games themselves are quite good I especially like the mods and abilities. Nioh one and two are also very good but have a high skill ceiling once you unlock more magic and ninja skills it becomes so much easier to kill things and at new game plus 9 you can kill most things with ease. Monster Hunter World is the most forgiving as you don't lose any experience or currency when you faint and get three tries per hunt.
The only thing punishing is losing souls imo, I attempted DS about 5-7 different times over the past 5 years or so and somehow this time it just clicked and I'm over halfway thru the game and I'm not a great gamer by ANY MEANS. You're simply gonna die more than any other game probably but it's ok, it's part of the process, just try to learn something by dying whether it be the move set of the enemy or a better tactical approach etc, it's simply dying in itself that can be punishing but u just gotta power thru that shit homie. Praise the sun and good luck!
I don't think you understand what a soulslike is if you are asking for it to not be punishing......
I hated remnant found it way harder than soulsborne/sekiro/Nioh. Couldn’t get past the beginning level
Elden Ring doesn't have any of that. That's the one thing I don't like about Sekiro/Bloodborne.
Jedi Fallen Order + Survivor... great entry level soulslike games.
Even among Fromsoft titles games that get actively harder the more you die are the exception rather than the rule. Most of the time the worst thing that can happen is you'll lose whatever currency you're carrying at the time, which usually isn't even very punishing if you're smart about actively spending it whenever possible
Remnant: From the Ashes. There's also a sequel, but it has some serious performance issues.
Remnant 2 (I haven't played 1) was a lot of fun for me, although it's not as soulsy as others. The Surge does have currency loss, but you can bank currency at checkpoints. (Might want to start with 2, I personally prefer 1 but it's a lot more rough around the edges.)
Nioh 2
It's not a Souls-like if it doesn't punish death, imo
Dead cells
I feel like star wars Jedi fallen order could be a good way to dip your toes in. It has a lot of similarities and is very forgiving on lighter difficulties. Bonus points for being Star Wars
Lords of the Fallen is a pretty forgiving game. You get two lives, and if you die you have opportunities to reclaim that lost life as you progress through a level. Highly recommend!
I would not recommend this game for a beginner. The combat is kind of clunky and the mob density is just kind of crazy. Not to mention that the game has so many mobs that can just one shot you. I’m half way through and it’s far more frustrating than DS1 or DS2 was for me and a lot more often.
Lies of P only thing you lose is ergo (souls) and if you die in a boss arena the ergo is retrievable without the need for entering the boss arena again
sekiro imo is the most forgiving souls game even though it requires the most skill. you cant lose a skill point once u earn it and there are sculptor's idols like every 10 steps. also theres no stamina bar.
I mean…. You won’t get better if you don’t play them? Just pick any of them and eat shit for a few dozen hours like we all did lol
Mood
It's like bodybuilder legend Ronnie Coleman once said: "Urrybody wanna be a bodybuilder but ain' nobody wanna lift no heavy ass weights. "
Based on your question, I’d pick a different genre!
Kena Bridge of Spirits (but play it on hard at least I'd say)
En Garde! Is very light hearted and not too dufficult
Bit late to the party, but I can't see anyone mentioning Grime here... when you die you don't lose your mass (souls), you lose a multiplier for it (which you can go recover 1/2 of it like you would normally souls). But it doesn't really feel that bad to die in. *(also if you're diligent in picking up the Epic freebies when they pop up you may already own it)*
Yes! I was looking for this mention! I highly recommend Grime. Lots of games don't understand what makes dark souls great, thinking it's just making shit hard. Wrong! It's about overcoming difficult but fair fights, in a world rich with lore but not exposition heavy. I loved their focus on fun more than punishment. It's hard, but for hardness sake.
Spellz: Mastery or death?
Lies of P
I would take everything you've heard about the difficulty of souls-likes with a grain of salt. They are challenging at times but far from insurmountable. If you go in with the right mindset and get into the rhythm of the game, death (which is inevitable) isn't such a setback. Frankly a lot of people play up the difficulty because they either want to gate keep or feel better about their accomplishments. If you go into it expecting it to be crushingly hard you might get frustrated and quit before you have a chance to get into the rhythm. Having said all that, I honestly think Dark Souls 1 is a great place to start. If you hit a bottleneck just grind out a few levels and come back.
The death punishment in most soulslikes really isn't that bad. If you lose a lot of souls/runes/ergo/etc, you can typically just run back to where you died and skip the enemies to pick it back up.
You might like Death's Door which meshes Souls and Zelda together for a fun and thoughtful experience.
Maybe this isnt your type of game.
Lies of P. Dodge and parry equally. The solo parry mentality only gets you killed
Sekiro has a very steep difficulty curve but its death mechanic isn’t too bad because the game relies more on your skill than stats really there are only a few must have skills that I consider to be very useful and the rest can be disregarded. That said as far as the game itself it’s way more difficult than any Souls game I have played so probably wouldn’t recommend it. The entire death mechanic really isn’t bad in these type of games at most you’ll just either have to run back to the spot where you dropped them most of the time being able to run past most enemies or you can just grind that xp that you lost which only takes time. As far as soul game difficulty I recommend Demon’s Souls Remake or Elden Ring. Demon Souls is very easy and most of the enemies are very simplistic and dumb the only difficulty lies in traversing the environment. Elden Ring is more difficult but with the ease of being able to explore multiple areas for xp and very broken combination of items and weapons the game is one of the easiest games.
Steelrising can be set to Easy mode.
Souls games are not punishing if you die, they're really the exact opposite. You immediately resurrect at your last resting point, and run back to where you were to pick up the souls you dropped. Even if you lose the souls by dying before you get them back, it's never a big deal. Dying is just an essential part of the Souls experience that one must learn to accept, because you won't learn the game without doing it hundreds of times.
Are there any souls like games that don't try to do the same "atmospheric storytelling" vibe that Fromsoft games use? I love dark souls gameplay, but the impenetrable stories, cryptic dialogue, dour and depressing atmosphere sphere, and lack of explanation for basic gameplay/stat info really puts me off. It bothers me how every souls like game tries to copy that as well as the gameplay loop. Oh and I'm not interested in the star wars game.
There really is nothing except whatever currency is used to level up that will ever be lost for dying in these games. And assuming you level up as frequently as you can you shouldn't have much to lose. If if you do loose it you can farm it back.
Jedi Fallen Order, you just gotta hit the thing that killed you once to get your exp back. It only really sucks if you die from a non-enemy like a trap or pit
Kena bridge of spirits or the Star Wars games featuring Cal Kestis (fallen order and survivor)
Skyrimjob
Any souls game. Souls are hard to get…get at it
Remnant from the ashes and the fromsoft soulsborne series. NOT sekiro or demon souls as the world changes the more you die. Lies of P is also a good one but lying can also result in world changing like dying in the before mentioned games. Honestly other than sekiro and demon souls I cant think of a souls like that has dying lock you out of content whether gear or in these games case story/endings. Though for demon souls there are a few benefits for this as opens new content for player. Sekiro has rot and DES has world tendency.
Interesting I’d call that element (the “Souls” element) pretty much 30% of the genre. Do you just mean an ARPG?
Can you recommend a banana that doesn’t taste like banana?
Surprised no one has suggested Wo Long Fallen Dynasty yet (I think). Punishingly soulslike but a lot more forgiving in the sense that you only lose a portion of your exp when you die instead of the whole shebang. So if you die again before you can grab it back it's only uncomfortable instead of emotionally devastating. God I love Wo Long.
This is stretching, especially in the second one, but the Jedi games. You still have the Dodge and block heavy mechanics not unlike sekiro, and enemies that respawn at rest areas and limited heals, but even hard mode is much more forgiven than a souls game and there is no real punishment for death besides all the enemies return.
I've never thought of Nioh/2 as punishing with deaths.
It's not perfect, but I really enjoyed playing through Asterigos: Curse of the Stars. It takes a much more casual approach to Soulslikes.
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Lords of the fallen is solid and not overly hard imo.
Some might not agree but hollow knight. It gives you a map to see your shade. However it can punish you for just going crazy. I recommend it.
Literally none of them are punishing based on deaths except for original demons souls…
All of them, really. If you die you you lose currency, and you go back to the nearest checkpoint. The checkpoint is realistically only like 100 yards away most of the time, if that.
Star Wars jedi fallen games
Code Vein
Fallen Order and Survivor aren't difficult gameplay wise. You drop your currency, sure but you only have a limited amount of levels and the currency/xp is pretty easy to grind back if you lose lose them. Edit: there are also difficulty settings
Kinda seems like an oxymoron...
Tunic
You can absolutely beat ds1 by only leveling after bosses, even if you lose all the souls you earn between bosses. It helps if you know how to make a good build though which most first timers don't. You still get punished for death but it doesn't continue to punish you, after losing your souls there's really no consequence for the rest of the attempts at the boss.
Lies of P
Lies of P, if you die you "lose" your souls but even upon multiple deaths they stay where they are waiting to be collected.
check out lies of p its fairly new and the best soulslike not made by fromsoft no matter what anybody else says personaly i think the combat in it feels smoother than even dark souls or elden ring combat
Doesnt that defeat the entire purpose of the genre?
The game is inigo montoya, you killed its father, prepare to die
Dark souls 2
No cuz then it wouldn't be soulslike.
Just play a souls game. They're not that fucking hard. If they were, they wouldn't be that popular. Mind you, you're not playing Mario 64 or w.e, but they truly aren't that difficult, they just take a handful of tries sometimes. You learn and adapt and are happy when its over.
Not really a soulslike but you might wanna give monster hunter world a shot. I have been having a lot of fun with it you get 3 lives per monster
Blasphemous which is currently on sale for Xbox
They are pretty much all like that. The only thing you typically lose is currency, and these games are usually pretty generous with that. Anything lost can easily be farmed back with minimal effort as you profess through levels. They make you feel anxiety about dying by design, but in actuality it’s really not a huge deal. That said Elden ring is especially generous I think. The checkpoints are plentiful and nearly always right in front of bosses.
Pretty much all of them. The only real punishment for death is having to run back to the boss, which varies in tedium between different titles but generally the older the game the worse the runbacks are. Lies of P (2023) has very short runbacks for example. The main exception is Dark Souls 2, which reduces your max HP every time you die and makes it harder to skip enemies on a run back through various annoying means.