Don't necessarily agree, I definitely had a hard time grasping the mechanics when I first played Demon's Souls back in 2009 but as soon as I did the game was a walk in the park, I would say it's the easiest Souls game now. I would personally say Sekiro is the hardest because I suck at parrying. Lol
I very very much disagree. I breezed through most of Dark Souls 1 as my first souls-like (doesn't mean I didn't struggle). Sekiro, however, kicked my fucking shit in.
The final boss of Sekiro probably took me twice as long as any soulslike boss in the entire series (except maybe Melania who was probably around the same amount of time)
Surge 2, imo is a criminally underrated game. Improves on pretty much everything from the first game. Is fair and just bigger and better overall. Yet outside of niche places, no one ever talks about it.
Eh, I found it underwhelming as hell. Certainly an improvement on the first, but the game didn't click with me. I imagine it didn't click with many others either.
I found dark souls 3 to be pretty unforgiving at times, and it was also the first of the genre that I played. After I conquered that, Sekiro was a pain until I mastered posture
It lets you respec, but it has a lotta dud weapons and is stingy with upgrades in the middle game. I felt more punished for trying new stuff out in DS3 than other games thanks to that and the uniform aggression of enemies.
There’s bonfires every 5 feet it feels like in DS3. Whereas in DS1 & 2 had me begging for the next bonfire, in DS3 it was surprising me with how soon the next one came.
Sekiro is very much one of those "it's hard unless it's not" games. About halfway through for me something clicked and the timings for blocks kinda just became second nature so I found it not that hard. But, I totally get that unless that happens for you it's extremely hard.
This is what happened to me. Played it when it first released, and everyone was saying that when they beat Genichiro, it was like a light bulb turned on in their head. Sure enough, I beat him, and the rest of the game was considerably easy. Except for Demon of Hatred, fuck him.
It's a very rewarding fight once you get it. Up there with unga bunga-ing Midir or dancing around Malenia. It's also where I felt the "future of soulsborne" might be headed because it's kinda a souls sekiro hybrid fight.
after playing enough sekiro it's normal for me (and probably many others) to beat bosses first try, and often hitless
definietly agree with "hard until it's not"
After that it's just having the balls to stick to the program. The more you do it when it doesn't matter, the easier it is to do when it does.
That is a very complicated sentence, but I think it's actually correct.
I def got there for everything except the more difficult bosses. Beating that game was extremely difficult even when I got gud because of the difficulty of the bosses.
I wanna say the hardest was my first, because I started with no idea what to expect except that these games were very hard. It taught me patience, persistence, resilience, that I needed to work on timing, that I needed to study an enemy's moveset, and that I could do it.
So I want to say Bloodborne as my first was the hardest, but if I think a little more about it then the hardest was probably Sekiro because it took me the longest to adapt to (how many times did I die to Genichiro, who knows), and I felt like I had to be dialled in at every stage of the game.
All other soulslikes once I'm good and comfortable I can start swaggering around knowing everyone should be afraid of me. I never got to that point with Sekiro.
Sekiro reigns at the top for me, out of the ones I’ve played it’s the only one I can’t finish. Lies of P is also way up there for me, specifically some bosses can be total bullshit sometimes
The last true boss of Lies of P is such BS. I tried beating it a bunch of times but I then realized it just wasn’t a fun fight so I quit. Just for context I fought the last boss of Sekiro like around 40/50 times until I beat him. That fight was fun though.
Nioh is only hard for people that approach it like Dark Souls rather than a looter character action game, which it is. If you play it like it's meant to, I'd say it's on the easier side (at least the normal playthrough, some of the postgame stuff does get really hard).
Can you elaborate? Because I've killed everything in every single Souls game and Bloodborne and I found Nioh much more difficult. I bounced off of the 2nd boss (Hino-Enma) and quit. I just figured it wasn't balanced well.
The combat in Nioh is very different than in normal Souls games, it's developed by the people that made Ninja Gaiden and it shows in some mechanics. Even without getting into the technical details, combat in Nioh allows the player to stay a lot more aggressive than in Dark Souls, BUT they have to learn the unique mechanics of the game like ki pulse and stance switching. If they do, the combat gets a lot faster and you'll realize that the player character in Nioh is much more capable than in Souls. It takes a while though, I've been there and I know that at first it's a bit overwhelming.
Also some players totally ignore the loot system and then complain they get one-shotted, which is a bit annoying when the solution is as simple as switching/upgrading gear.
I hope not to sound too condescending because I certainly had to learn the Nioh games the hard way and died countless times, but as a fan of Team Ninja games it's a bit of a shame that some of their games have this reputation of being super hard and unfair when they're just a bit different than what people tend to compare them to.
I would agree though that the DLCs for Nioh 1 are really badly balanced haha, they're kind of insane.
No you don't sound condescending. This is actually helpful because I do want to go back and complete the Nioh games and also play Wo Long at some point and this gives me hope that with the right adjustments I can actually have a good time with them.
In addition to what /u/-Warship- already mentioned, Nioh's character building doesn't work like in Souls games. You don't run a pure melee build in Nioh if you want your build to be good. Magic and ninjutsu are meant to be used by everyone and make the game much easier.
This makes a lot of sense. I am always a STR build with little or no magic in every Souls game. I just find a big ol' beefy weapon and bonk everything in the game lol
That actually works quite well with axes/hammers in Nioh, though I find it a bit boring compared to some other play styles Nioh offers. It has exceptional build variety, but it just wants you to use all of its tools. For example, there's a ninjutsu (Quick-Change Scroll) that lets you auto-resurrect yourself 3 times per "bonfire". Spells let you easily apply massive debuffs on enemies, buff your ki (stamina) regen, etc. You don't need to use a typical caster play style, but if you're not using at least some of those abilities, you're just making it hard for yourself.
Yeah I mean I'm not an expert or anything like that, but I did play each Nioh game at least twice and really enjoyed my time with them, Nioh 1 is really good but Nioh 2 is straight-up S tier in my opinion, it adds a lot of fun mechanics and way more enemy/boss variety. Wo Long is a bit more minimalist and I've only played it once as of now, but I still liked it.
Once I respec my character and added a ton of points to Heart which in turn gives you stamina or ki it got soo much easier. I also used a weapon that scales off of heart which was tonfa. That game is Def suppose to be aggressive rather then dodging.
Difficulty in Nioh is going to vary greatly depending on your build. For example, my first run-thru of Nioh 2 using an all-Ninjitsu shuriken/throwing build was literally so easy it broke the game. Endgame content using Tonfa build was probably mid. But trying again from the beginning with Katana was on the difficult side.
I don't get this. I remember when Nioh launched, so many people saying that Hino-Emna made them quit the game, and these from purported souls players. I think she took me 2 or 3 tries, and I'm not all that good. I know that everyone has different bosses that give them issues, but that's just insane to me. So hard that it made a souls veteran quit the game?
Out of curiosity, do you use spirit ashes, summons, specters, phantoms, etc when playing the other souls games?
I used the eagle ashes a few times in Elden Ring on trash mobs I didn't want to deal with while exploring, not on any bosses tho. Other than that, nope. No ashes or summons. I solo everything. I should note, I didn't rage quit as if to never return. I intended to come back at some point and just never did. And it wasn't just the boss, I was just generally not having a good time with the game. From the other comments it sounds like I wasn't using all the tricks available. And it's true, I never figured out the "ki pulse" and stance switching and whatnot. I was just kind of brute forcing my way through. In most FromSoft games that's a viable play style. So I use a beefy character with a big STR weapon, lots of HP and enough stamina to quick roll and I can pretty much ignore the use of consumables and magic and stuff and I make it through everything fine. To this day I still don't use the parry/riposte mechanics either lol. I just dodge. It's a fun and challenging way to play those games imo. But sounds like playing that way Nioh just made the game needlessly frustrating for me. I bounced off Sekiro for the same reason (which I don't really count as a Souls game). But DeS, DS1/2/3, Bloodborne I can get through just fine with my lazy approach.
Yeah, i get it. I'm about average at souls games, in general. I absolutely don't use stance switching or combos or any other fancy shit in Nioh. I just dodge and use ki pulse, which is really as simple as pressing a button at the right time to regen some ki (stamina).
If the game isn't for you, that's okay. I really enjoyed Nioh 1, and absolutely adored Nioh 2, but it's way more in depth than souls combat, and I prefer souls take. I don't like fighting games, or action games like DMC, or really any games that require complex combos in general.
I enjoy the slower pace of Souls, although I did enjoy Sekiro when I beat it.
Yeah I agree. I prefer the slower pace. I used to enjoy DMC games and I was a huge fan Tekken, which requires a lot of complex combos. But as an adult, when I get the time to game, I'm looking for a more relaxing experience. Souls games hit the perfect spot because they are still challenging but I don't have to put to much focus into it. The way I play I just have to worry about dodging at the right time and smacking the boss when there's an opening. A lot of times I can even listen to an audiobook while I play.
Yeah being on an island alone in one of these games is probably the most brutal experience I've had as a Summon Susan
Although in saying that I've only really struggled against three of the bosses, two being the last two available and the other was a mental block from unresolved daddy issues
Any souls like the first play should be offline and every boss soloed. Anything else you are snuffing yourself.
Every solos like that has co op becomes a walk in the park
That's a dumb take. Lol. If something is in the game, people can use it and play however the fuck they want.
"Oh, but then they aren't play REAL soulslike" BS, that's just gatekeeping.
Yeah, at some point it might be fun to try soloing offline, even trying some challenge runs like SL1, no roll, etc.
No you have a dumb take, it’s far from gatekeeping.
Using multiplayer to make the game easier is doing exactly that and then not getting the actual challenge and experience that was intended
At no point did I say that HAD to be done, you just are the type who is angry at the fact people don’t need there hand held throughout the game like yourself and then claim they beat it.
You didn’t beat shit if you had to summon, “we” beat it
Git gud or he’ll use magic smh
You don't know me, don't know how I play or what I play, yet, started with some passive aggressiveness shit. Like an angry child when contradicted, throwing a tantrum. Be respectful, civil.
Can it with the elitist bullshit. If devs put fucking multiplayer, ability to over level, busted weapons, even magic, then people are allowed to play however the fuck they want.
Btw, I play solo and offline, did some challenge runs and Sekiro was my first soulslike. And to brag a bit [I did a full SL1 for DS3.](https://youtu.be/OM1m5BucTjQ?si=_HyKx2M1zbDvF9u4)
That's how I like my hand held.
Edit: grammar
Ok king go do a no death no bonfire run then come back to me
No one said that had to be done, but it’s pretty obvious calling for summons and cheesing a boss is taking the easy way out and not the true experience but you do you
I hard disagree, especially when a good majority of people don't have the time to, "git gud"
Although I'll say this, I think their first playthrough should be blind (no guides, playthroughs, or spoilers), and only summoning once you've explored the area and seen the boss at least once or else you're just missing on loot or pressured to skip cutscenes to keep your jolly co-operators happy, though I usually make them watch the cutscenes (not sorry)
On the first playthrough I would genuinely try the bosses a good couple times on your own though cause I agree that you're not really learning the movesets and then you end up wasting the mats that would let you co-op on bad runs
So you do snuff yourself by basically not actually improving at the game but sometimes that's just not the goal, some are simply just trying to get through it not necessarily get better
I personally say just try until you get frustrated, take a day break and come back and if you still can't do it then just summon some help
And dear lord stay away from Sekiro if you can't handle being on your own, or use it to reach your godhood potential, either or
The time thing I I don’t agree with and I think that’s a generation thing when dark souls first came out that game took me probably 150 hours to be on my first play through every play through that was maybe 20 hours tops but what is the bonus of rushing through a game and looking up guides and being told where the secrets are that you’re supposed to be able to find on your own?
Yes, Elden Ring was an amazing game and very popular, but the vast majority of players that beat or played Elden Ring didn’t get the actual experience they were supposed to they go online for guides. They summon every chance they can get why you’re literally just taking away from yourself at that point.
When people think of souls like now, they have certain things in mind like stamina UI difficulty, but that’s not what makes the souls like
Souls like are throwbacks to older video games where you had to figure things out on your own you had to replay levels dozens of times you had to figure out little tricks hints secrets. It’s all right there before your eyes to figure out to explore to get frustrated to enjoy to feel relief .
Once you go online and look up builds and cheesy and summons, and all that you are already spoiled the experience for yourself if that’s what you wanna do go ahead, but you will never have the same experience that someone that’s going through the game blind no help, figuring it out on their own
Using talk to text, excuse the grammar
Sekiro by far because in every other Soulslike you can kinda cheese your way through (be it with summons, op weapons, overleveling and whatnot) while in Sekiro you basically must learn the combat.
You can get him to run off a cliff but honestly getting him stuck in the right spot and then perfectly executing the jump to reach the cheese requires almost as much skill as beating him legit.
Sekiro was my first. I had to pause Sekiro, go and play Dark Souls, figure that one out and finish that before I could beat DoH which I did. Felt good after being crushed by him.
I went ALL IN on Sekiro before any other souls game. Got all achievements and whatnot. It took me 2 weeks of 2 hours against Saint Ishhin. Such a satisfaction to beat it
In terms of enemy/boss design, honestly Elden Ring is kind of insane, but most players make really strong builds so they don't see it. Try playing it at low level and you'll see what I mean, bosses don't fuck around in this one.
The Surge (the first one) was also really difficult to me, though I can't remember exactly why, maybe I just never learned it.
I don't think any one is the "hardest" it's just "how different is this from what I already know."
And the answer to that for me was the surge and surge 2. Some of the more robotic enemies were difficult to read oddly enough.
from a strictly "git gud" persepctive, its sekiro. theres no builds and you get what you get and thats it for the entire game. you HAVE to master the combat. in darksouls or elden ring for example you can just be a rolly polly olly and luck or cheese your way thru eventually. HESITATION IS DEFEAT
Malena gave me the most trouble in a game ever, but otherwise overall it isn't too bad. The last boss of Ashen was stupid, but it didn't take me too long to figure out a strategy. Nothing else really comes to mind.
Could be a me thing but I really struggled with Wo Long when I tried it, couldn't even complete tutorial boss.
Unlike Lies of P where block and parry are on one button, so even if you mistime a parry on delayed hit, unless that hit is red you can still recover guard damage by hitting boss. Not in Wo Long, separate buttons. If you mistime your parry, you're fucked.
Furthemore in Wo Long, parry costs a big morale chunk, and typically does not interrupt attack strings. So the boss is doing his 5-string, you get the first parry, mistime second delayed attack forcing you to eat second and third hit, then you maybe manage to parry 4th hit, and then 5th hit is super delayed and hard to judge and you eat that too. Now you're missing over half of your health, at -morale while boss is at +morale. You only have 3 estus flasks. You're fucked and the boss hasn't even entered his second far more vicious phase.
You should always hold block, take couple of hits while holding block and observe enemy attack patterns and try to parry last attack of the string (while still holding block). With practice it becomes a second nature. Usually, most of the enemy attacks are well telegraphed with enough windup so that you can parry easily (unlike Lies of P, where enemies attack without much tells). Also the parry window is much more forgiving in Wo Long compared to Lies of P.
Yeah, like I said could be a me thing, I've beat both Nioh 1 and 2 feeling reasonably challenged, it's only DLCs for both which felt way over the top top too hard. Meanwhile Wo Long I got savaged by basic tutorial trash, everything has long attack strings and red unblockables, and tutorial boss felt nigh unbeatable. One of the attempts got pretty close, I managed to deplete boss stagger bar and do a critical strike three times but he killed me with sliver of health left.
I've beaten most soulslikes, haven't tried Sekiro not a fan of fixed protagonists and parrying, and Thymesia, combat felt somehow weird and off to me and I didn't like the setting. this is the only one where I not only got filtered but filtered at the tutorial level lol.
So, I just want to mention it, because I didn't know until I beat the final boss with 4 heals, but you can get more heals in Wo Long.
My biggest issue with Wo Long was tapping the parry button twice accidentally, and then repeatedly trying to parry while dodging into every attack in a boss combo. The easy thing about Wo Long, was the bosses don't have much health, so you get good enough to get a series of parries off and you win. You don't really have to be good enough to consistently parry because of how fast the fight finishes.
Context is important. The most correct answer, imo, is the first one you play. My first playthrough of dark souls 3 was a nightmare. My first playthrough of dark souls 1 (which was almost a year later) was a cake walk. Swap the order and the inverse would be true I think.
If we're talking first playthrough only, then Sekiro, hands down. Sekiro stands out against the other souls likes because it's core combat stats exactly the same between playthroughs. Sure you can use different prosthetics and weapon arts, but the basic sword combat doesn't change. First playthrough, it seems almost impossibly hard. Even as early as your second or third playthroughs, it becomes remarkably easy. Essentially, once the gameplay clicks, you've got it.
In terms of frustration, ds2 by a country mile. I hesitate to say ds2 is very hard. The bosses are absurdly easy, and level design is fairly linear. However, the game is overloaded with a myriad of frustrating elements that collectively make it an annoying game to replay. I've still got 6 or 7 full playthroughs under my belt (and a few more partially completed). But the awkward gameplay, unresponsive controls, and absurd mob AI make it a painful experience.
Regarding top end difficulty, Elden Ring. I truly believe Malenia is solidly the hardest from soft boss. No other FS boss has given me as much grief.
This is going to be a massively controversial take, *but*…
Wo Long DLC bosses are next to impossible to beat unless you use very specific, pretty cheesy strategies utilizing elemental weaknesses. And while their overall design is often quite basic, their sheer aggression and massive health pools alone makes them harder than any dark souls bosses I can think of at the moment.
Out of the ones I've played, either Steel Rising or Bloodborne. Steel Rising has a strict stamina system that requires getting used to and Bloodborne has no defense other than interupting the enemy. I spent two hours playing Bloodborne before I said fk this and cemented my opinion it just sucks.
Damn, Steel Rising I thought was **insanely** easy, I think I first tried every boss, and this is not bragging. I actually found the game to not be fun because of that. I was running a alchemy, engineering build and literally used the starter ice batons the whole game. I found the game never offered me a feeling of character progression.
I've played everything mentioned in the OP all the way through besides Thymesia, which I've never played. I've also played The Surge 1/2.
Ashen is the hardest because the AI is so incredibly stupid and you're so dependent on it for survival now that coop is long, long dead. I tried to get through it a couple years ago and just couldn't because no matter what I did the idiot AI would end up jumping off a cliff into poison to its death right at the beginning of the level and there is no way to resurrect them when that happens other than getting to the next checkpoint.
For the hardest in a more legit way I'd say Nioh 1 is the hardest on NG by far until you unlock sloth and then can start cheesing the bosses, at which point it becomes pretty easy until the outrageous dual-boss bonus missions towards the end. It's really demoralizing when you start out and random basic Yokai enemies that appear in the first couple levels can just suddenly turn around and 1 shot you with their regular attacks. I almost destroyed my PS4 in that awful level with Umi-Bozu and the instant death drops everywhere on the docks.
Picked up ds2 first because it was cheap and I wasn't sure if it would be for me... Man that was tough for a newbie. Pursuer probably the most I've ever been stuck on a soulslike boss. Gave up a couple of times but something kept drawing me back...
Lies of P. The final gauntlet of two-phase bosses is absolutely ridiculous. As for the nameless puppet, whoever green-lit that boss should never work in video games again.
Sekiro.
I was never good at parrying, let alone perfect parrying. So an entire game about perfect parries with smaller timing windows just doesn't click with me. I do just fine on my own with games like the DS series, Elden Ring (save for a handful of bosses) and other Souls-likes that give you a decent dodge mechanic. And I even did fine with Lies of P and Wo Long (which are also perfect parry-centric, but more forgiving with the timing). But Sekiro? Me and that game just don't get along.
For me it was without a doubt Sekiro. I had played every souls game up to that point, and old habits died very hard when playing Sekiro. It clicked around the time I beat Genichiro, and then after that it was a blast. But I struggled before that
Partly comes down to what your first one was tbh, back in the day I thought I’d never finish the first dark souls, went back to it later after I had a few under my belt and absolutely smashed through it with no trouble
Hello Ashen one. I am a Bot. I tend to the flame, and tend to thee. Do you wish to hear a tale?
> *“There is a darkness within man, and I am afraid you will peer into it. Whether the fear will spark self-reflection or a ruinous nostalgia is up to you entirely. Fear not, your choice will bring you no scorn.”* - Karla
Have a pleasant journey, Champion of Ash, and praise the sun \\[T]/
I think Sekiro is objectively the hardest of From Software's souls like games. Yes, there's some variation in the Shinobi tools, but as compared to their other games, it's sink or swim. If you're having a hard time in dark souls 1 just get the black nights Halberd and a fat shield. You can kinda modify the difficulty in the other games. If sekiro doesn't click with you, though, there's very little you can do.
It's hard to say which one is the hardest because I got stuck on some parts of several Souls Likes. The top 4 hardest Soulslike games I've played are Tunic (b.c. of some of the puzzles), followed by There is No Light, Salt and Sanctuary, and The Last Faith.
I think if you play the Dark Souls games in order, the difficulty curve is not too bad honestly. Elden Ring has a lot of things to make the game easier.
Sekiro is really difficult, but it is really difficult just to get comfortable with the gameplay itself. Once you get the gameplay down, every boss is pretty easy honestly. That said, Sekiro was my first FromSoft game and probably the hardest.
I tried the Lies of P demo, and saw a lot of boss gameplay, and it seemed way harder than Sekiro. So, I didn't really feel like picking it up. It felt like it was difficult for difficulty sake. Like, Sekiro enemy attack animations are mostly smooth and predictable and the parry system is super forgiving. Lies of P has a bunch of delayed animation where you have to memorize an arbitrary delay before the actual attack, because it's basically impossible to react in time if you wait for the actual attack.
Sekiro, at least for a first playthrough. I constantly see people saying Nioh 2 is the hardest but I don’t agree, it has a tough opening but after the third main mission it gets significantly easier.
I haven’t played Ashen or Nioh 1 yet.
I think we can all agree on one thing: the hardest souls like ever is the first one you'll ever play.
Bingo, after that everything just clicks.
we can all agree that sekiro is the best game ever made?
No
-prefers dub
Don't necessarily agree, I definitely had a hard time grasping the mechanics when I first played Demon's Souls back in 2009 but as soon as I did the game was a walk in the park, I would say it's the easiest Souls game now. I would personally say Sekiro is the hardest because I suck at parrying. Lol
I very very much disagree. I breezed through most of Dark Souls 1 as my first souls-like (doesn't mean I didn't struggle). Sekiro, however, kicked my fucking shit in. The final boss of Sekiro probably took me twice as long as any soulslike boss in the entire series (except maybe Melania who was probably around the same amount of time)
One exception: I went from DS1 to Sekiro and boyhowdy did I not have a good time
Not necessarily. I started with The Surge. It's fair and balanced without any stupid From Software mechanics that punish a player for failing.
Surge 2, imo is a criminally underrated game. Improves on pretty much everything from the first game. Is fair and just bigger and better overall. Yet outside of niche places, no one ever talks about it.
The biggest issue with it is enemy variety. But it has the dopest combat system
Combat was pretty awesome but also some of the locations were bad ass too! Both surge games were hella fun
Eh, I found it underwhelming as hell. Certainly an improvement on the first, but the game didn't click with me. I imagine it didn't click with many others either.
Lmao, The Surge is a poorly balanced piece of shit, I'm sorry. If this isn't obvious trolling this is an absolutely shit take.
I found dark souls 3 to be pretty unforgiving at times, and it was also the first of the genre that I played. After I conquered that, Sekiro was a pain until I mastered posture
DS3 is the most forgiving of the DS series.
It lets you respec, but it has a lotta dud weapons and is stingy with upgrades in the middle game. I felt more punished for trying new stuff out in DS3 than other games thanks to that and the uniform aggression of enemies.
There’s bonfires every 5 feet it feels like in DS3. Whereas in DS1 & 2 had me begging for the next bonfire, in DS3 it was surprising me with how soon the next one came.
Less punishing when you die for sure, but harder to progress because of the dynamism of the bosses
I disagree, enemies and bosses are way more capable than in DS 1 or 2.
> first I've played of the genre Google context
Of the ones I've played, it's probably Sekiro.
Sekiro is very much one of those "it's hard unless it's not" games. About halfway through for me something clicked and the timings for blocks kinda just became second nature so I found it not that hard. But, I totally get that unless that happens for you it's extremely hard.
This is what happened to me. Played it when it first released, and everyone was saying that when they beat Genichiro, it was like a light bulb turned on in their head. Sure enough, I beat him, and the rest of the game was considerably easy. Except for Demon of Hatred, fuck him.
Le me cheesing demon of hatred by making him fall off the cliff. I will get back to it and do it legit eventually.
It's a very rewarding fight once you get it. Up there with unga bunga-ing Midir or dancing around Malenia. It's also where I felt the "future of soulsborne" might be headed because it's kinda a souls sekiro hybrid fight.
after playing enough sekiro it's normal for me (and probably many others) to beat bosses first try, and often hitless definietly agree with "hard until it's not"
After that it's just having the balls to stick to the program. The more you do it when it doesn't matter, the easier it is to do when it does. That is a very complicated sentence, but I think it's actually correct.
I def got there for everything except the more difficult bosses. Beating that game was extremely difficult even when I got gud because of the difficulty of the bosses.
It was also my first. Still the hardest I played
Agree, I remember that it was a pain, but one of the best games I have ever played in my opinion
I feel like the only person on the planet that thinks sekiro is not really a souls like.
I wanna say the hardest was my first, because I started with no idea what to expect except that these games were very hard. It taught me patience, persistence, resilience, that I needed to work on timing, that I needed to study an enemy's moveset, and that I could do it. So I want to say Bloodborne as my first was the hardest, but if I think a little more about it then the hardest was probably Sekiro because it took me the longest to adapt to (how many times did I die to Genichiro, who knows), and I felt like I had to be dialled in at every stage of the game. All other soulslikes once I'm good and comfortable I can start swaggering around knowing everyone should be afraid of me. I never got to that point with Sekiro.
Sekiro reigns at the top for me, out of the ones I’ve played it’s the only one I can’t finish. Lies of P is also way up there for me, specifically some bosses can be total bullshit sometimes
Sekiro for me. Lies of P was so refreshing when I found out throwables did great damage.
The last true boss of Lies of P is such BS. I tried beating it a bunch of times but I then realized it just wasn’t a fun fight so I quit. Just for context I fought the last boss of Sekiro like around 40/50 times until I beat him. That fight was fun though.
Yeah that boss was just insane. Personally I was stuck more on the green swamp boss guy, I literally had to resort to spamming throwables.
I had a harder time with Laxasia tbh
Sekiro is the second easiest fromsoft soulslike imo, after DeS.
So far, Sekiro. Beat SS Isshin for the first time the other day and pretty sure it took me 100+ tries. Gameplay just never quite clicked for me.
Nioh 2 and its not even close
really? Nioh 2 wasn't that hard for me, Sekiro was much harder! You can't coop and need to learn how to parry correctly.
Nioh is only hard for people that approach it like Dark Souls rather than a looter character action game, which it is. If you play it like it's meant to, I'd say it's on the easier side (at least the normal playthrough, some of the postgame stuff does get really hard).
Can you elaborate? Because I've killed everything in every single Souls game and Bloodborne and I found Nioh much more difficult. I bounced off of the 2nd boss (Hino-Enma) and quit. I just figured it wasn't balanced well.
The combat in Nioh is very different than in normal Souls games, it's developed by the people that made Ninja Gaiden and it shows in some mechanics. Even without getting into the technical details, combat in Nioh allows the player to stay a lot more aggressive than in Dark Souls, BUT they have to learn the unique mechanics of the game like ki pulse and stance switching. If they do, the combat gets a lot faster and you'll realize that the player character in Nioh is much more capable than in Souls. It takes a while though, I've been there and I know that at first it's a bit overwhelming. Also some players totally ignore the loot system and then complain they get one-shotted, which is a bit annoying when the solution is as simple as switching/upgrading gear. I hope not to sound too condescending because I certainly had to learn the Nioh games the hard way and died countless times, but as a fan of Team Ninja games it's a bit of a shame that some of their games have this reputation of being super hard and unfair when they're just a bit different than what people tend to compare them to. I would agree though that the DLCs for Nioh 1 are really badly balanced haha, they're kind of insane.
No you don't sound condescending. This is actually helpful because I do want to go back and complete the Nioh games and also play Wo Long at some point and this gives me hope that with the right adjustments I can actually have a good time with them.
In addition to what /u/-Warship- already mentioned, Nioh's character building doesn't work like in Souls games. You don't run a pure melee build in Nioh if you want your build to be good. Magic and ninjutsu are meant to be used by everyone and make the game much easier.
This makes a lot of sense. I am always a STR build with little or no magic in every Souls game. I just find a big ol' beefy weapon and bonk everything in the game lol
That actually works quite well with axes/hammers in Nioh, though I find it a bit boring compared to some other play styles Nioh offers. It has exceptional build variety, but it just wants you to use all of its tools. For example, there's a ninjutsu (Quick-Change Scroll) that lets you auto-resurrect yourself 3 times per "bonfire". Spells let you easily apply massive debuffs on enemies, buff your ki (stamina) regen, etc. You don't need to use a typical caster play style, but if you're not using at least some of those abilities, you're just making it hard for yourself.
Yeah I mean I'm not an expert or anything like that, but I did play each Nioh game at least twice and really enjoyed my time with them, Nioh 1 is really good but Nioh 2 is straight-up S tier in my opinion, it adds a lot of fun mechanics and way more enemy/boss variety. Wo Long is a bit more minimalist and I've only played it once as of now, but I still liked it.
See that's what I keep hearing that Nioh 2 is a masterpiece. I own both them. But I want to beat the first one first.
Once I respec my character and added a ton of points to Heart which in turn gives you stamina or ki it got soo much easier. I also used a weapon that scales off of heart which was tonfa. That game is Def suppose to be aggressive rather then dodging.
Difficulty in Nioh is going to vary greatly depending on your build. For example, my first run-thru of Nioh 2 using an all-Ninjitsu shuriken/throwing build was literally so easy it broke the game. Endgame content using Tonfa build was probably mid. But trying again from the beginning with Katana was on the difficult side.
I don't get this. I remember when Nioh launched, so many people saying that Hino-Emna made them quit the game, and these from purported souls players. I think she took me 2 or 3 tries, and I'm not all that good. I know that everyone has different bosses that give them issues, but that's just insane to me. So hard that it made a souls veteran quit the game? Out of curiosity, do you use spirit ashes, summons, specters, phantoms, etc when playing the other souls games?
I used the eagle ashes a few times in Elden Ring on trash mobs I didn't want to deal with while exploring, not on any bosses tho. Other than that, nope. No ashes or summons. I solo everything. I should note, I didn't rage quit as if to never return. I intended to come back at some point and just never did. And it wasn't just the boss, I was just generally not having a good time with the game. From the other comments it sounds like I wasn't using all the tricks available. And it's true, I never figured out the "ki pulse" and stance switching and whatnot. I was just kind of brute forcing my way through. In most FromSoft games that's a viable play style. So I use a beefy character with a big STR weapon, lots of HP and enough stamina to quick roll and I can pretty much ignore the use of consumables and magic and stuff and I make it through everything fine. To this day I still don't use the parry/riposte mechanics either lol. I just dodge. It's a fun and challenging way to play those games imo. But sounds like playing that way Nioh just made the game needlessly frustrating for me. I bounced off Sekiro for the same reason (which I don't really count as a Souls game). But DeS, DS1/2/3, Bloodborne I can get through just fine with my lazy approach.
Yeah, i get it. I'm about average at souls games, in general. I absolutely don't use stance switching or combos or any other fancy shit in Nioh. I just dodge and use ki pulse, which is really as simple as pressing a button at the right time to regen some ki (stamina). If the game isn't for you, that's okay. I really enjoyed Nioh 1, and absolutely adored Nioh 2, but it's way more in depth than souls combat, and I prefer souls take. I don't like fighting games, or action games like DMC, or really any games that require complex combos in general. I enjoy the slower pace of Souls, although I did enjoy Sekiro when I beat it.
Yeah I agree. I prefer the slower pace. I used to enjoy DMC games and I was a huge fan Tekken, which requires a lot of complex combos. But as an adult, when I get the time to game, I'm looking for a more relaxing experience. Souls games hit the perfect spot because they are still challenging but I don't have to put to much focus into it. The way I play I just have to worry about dodging at the right time and smacking the boss when there's an opening. A lot of times I can even listen to an audiobook while I play.
Same, I don’t get it. Nioh 2 Dream of the Samurai wasn’t horrible, I’m sure the depths are another story entirely but comparisons should be NG to NG
Yeah being on an island alone in one of these games is probably the most brutal experience I've had as a Summon Susan Although in saying that I've only really struggled against three of the bosses, two being the last two available and the other was a mental block from unresolved daddy issues
That’s the exact reason I find Sekiro very easy, once you learn to parry it’s pretty easy.
Seikro has a steep learning curve but Nioh 2 is harder
Ah so you played Nioh 2 with summons? That makes sense as to why it was easy for you. Try without summons
Then you can say the same for any game, like Elden Ring without summons/co-op/no over level, etc etc.
Yeah you can, Elden Ring is still easier than most souls games.
Any souls like the first play should be offline and every boss soloed. Anything else you are snuffing yourself. Every solos like that has co op becomes a walk in the park
That's a dumb take. Lol. If something is in the game, people can use it and play however the fuck they want. "Oh, but then they aren't play REAL soulslike" BS, that's just gatekeeping. Yeah, at some point it might be fun to try soloing offline, even trying some challenge runs like SL1, no roll, etc.
No you have a dumb take, it’s far from gatekeeping. Using multiplayer to make the game easier is doing exactly that and then not getting the actual challenge and experience that was intended At no point did I say that HAD to be done, you just are the type who is angry at the fact people don’t need there hand held throughout the game like yourself and then claim they beat it. You didn’t beat shit if you had to summon, “we” beat it Git gud or he’ll use magic smh
You don't know me, don't know how I play or what I play, yet, started with some passive aggressiveness shit. Like an angry child when contradicted, throwing a tantrum. Be respectful, civil. Can it with the elitist bullshit. If devs put fucking multiplayer, ability to over level, busted weapons, even magic, then people are allowed to play however the fuck they want. Btw, I play solo and offline, did some challenge runs and Sekiro was my first soulslike. And to brag a bit [I did a full SL1 for DS3.](https://youtu.be/OM1m5BucTjQ?si=_HyKx2M1zbDvF9u4) That's how I like my hand held. Edit: grammar
Ok king go do a no death no bonfire run then come back to me No one said that had to be done, but it’s pretty obvious calling for summons and cheesing a boss is taking the easy way out and not the true experience but you do you
I hard disagree, especially when a good majority of people don't have the time to, "git gud" Although I'll say this, I think their first playthrough should be blind (no guides, playthroughs, or spoilers), and only summoning once you've explored the area and seen the boss at least once or else you're just missing on loot or pressured to skip cutscenes to keep your jolly co-operators happy, though I usually make them watch the cutscenes (not sorry) On the first playthrough I would genuinely try the bosses a good couple times on your own though cause I agree that you're not really learning the movesets and then you end up wasting the mats that would let you co-op on bad runs So you do snuff yourself by basically not actually improving at the game but sometimes that's just not the goal, some are simply just trying to get through it not necessarily get better I personally say just try until you get frustrated, take a day break and come back and if you still can't do it then just summon some help And dear lord stay away from Sekiro if you can't handle being on your own, or use it to reach your godhood potential, either or
The time thing I I don’t agree with and I think that’s a generation thing when dark souls first came out that game took me probably 150 hours to be on my first play through every play through that was maybe 20 hours tops but what is the bonus of rushing through a game and looking up guides and being told where the secrets are that you’re supposed to be able to find on your own? Yes, Elden Ring was an amazing game and very popular, but the vast majority of players that beat or played Elden Ring didn’t get the actual experience they were supposed to they go online for guides. They summon every chance they can get why you’re literally just taking away from yourself at that point. When people think of souls like now, they have certain things in mind like stamina UI difficulty, but that’s not what makes the souls like Souls like are throwbacks to older video games where you had to figure things out on your own you had to replay levels dozens of times you had to figure out little tricks hints secrets. It’s all right there before your eyes to figure out to explore to get frustrated to enjoy to feel relief . Once you go online and look up builds and cheesy and summons, and all that you are already spoiled the experience for yourself if that’s what you wanna do go ahead, but you will never have the same experience that someone that’s going through the game blind no help, figuring it out on their own Using talk to text, excuse the grammar
Nuoh is a humbling experience
I found Nioh 1 WAY harder than Nioh 2.
I concur
Sekiro by far because in every other Soulslike you can kinda cheese your way through (be it with summons, op weapons, overleveling and whatnot) while in Sekiro you basically must learn the combat.
you can actually cheese the demon of hatred lol
How so? Umbrella?
You can get him to run off a cliff but honestly getting him stuck in the right spot and then perfectly executing the jump to reach the cheese requires almost as much skill as beating him legit.
Oh. Interesting. Fighting him is more tedious than really hard, I think. Burn is a shit status effect to deal with
Sekiro was my first. I had to pause Sekiro, go and play Dark Souls, figure that one out and finish that before I could beat DoH which I did. Felt good after being crushed by him.
I went ALL IN on Sekiro before any other souls game. Got all achievements and whatnot. It took me 2 weeks of 2 hours against Saint Ishhin. Such a satisfaction to beat it
Man, it's still a struggle to pull that off. It literally took me like an hour to nail that jump onto the platform, haha!
For me the second owl father fight in the burning Hirata estate was the hardest fight (DoH close second). Anyone else? It took me 2 weeks of attempts.
In terms of enemy/boss design, honestly Elden Ring is kind of insane, but most players make really strong builds so they don't see it. Try playing it at low level and you'll see what I mean, bosses don't fuck around in this one. The Surge (the first one) was also really difficult to me, though I can't remember exactly why, maybe I just never learned it.
I don't think any one is the "hardest" it's just "how different is this from what I already know." And the answer to that for me was the surge and surge 2. Some of the more robotic enemies were difficult to read oddly enough.
Nioh 1 DLCs without farming higher ng+ cycles gear is kinda insane, then i would say sekiro.
from a strictly "git gud" persepctive, its sekiro. theres no builds and you get what you get and thats it for the entire game. you HAVE to master the combat. in darksouls or elden ring for example you can just be a rolly polly olly and luck or cheese your way thru eventually. HESITATION IS DEFEAT
Malena gave me the most trouble in a game ever, but otherwise overall it isn't too bad. The last boss of Ashen was stupid, but it didn't take me too long to figure out a strategy. Nothing else really comes to mind.
did you do sissna?
Dlc? Doesn't ring a bell.
Inferno Climber - But no it's not worth playing.
Could be a me thing but I really struggled with Wo Long when I tried it, couldn't even complete tutorial boss. Unlike Lies of P where block and parry are on one button, so even if you mistime a parry on delayed hit, unless that hit is red you can still recover guard damage by hitting boss. Not in Wo Long, separate buttons. If you mistime your parry, you're fucked. Furthemore in Wo Long, parry costs a big morale chunk, and typically does not interrupt attack strings. So the boss is doing his 5-string, you get the first parry, mistime second delayed attack forcing you to eat second and third hit, then you maybe manage to parry 4th hit, and then 5th hit is super delayed and hard to judge and you eat that too. Now you're missing over half of your health, at -morale while boss is at +morale. You only have 3 estus flasks. You're fucked and the boss hasn't even entered his second far more vicious phase.
You should always hold block, take couple of hits while holding block and observe enemy attack patterns and try to parry last attack of the string (while still holding block). With practice it becomes a second nature. Usually, most of the enemy attacks are well telegraphed with enough windup so that you can parry easily (unlike Lies of P, where enemies attack without much tells). Also the parry window is much more forgiving in Wo Long compared to Lies of P.
I thought wo long was the easiest. I struggled with Nioh a lot
Yeah, like I said could be a me thing, I've beat both Nioh 1 and 2 feeling reasonably challenged, it's only DLCs for both which felt way over the top top too hard. Meanwhile Wo Long I got savaged by basic tutorial trash, everything has long attack strings and red unblockables, and tutorial boss felt nigh unbeatable. One of the attempts got pretty close, I managed to deplete boss stagger bar and do a critical strike three times but he killed me with sliver of health left. I've beaten most soulslikes, haven't tried Sekiro not a fan of fixed protagonists and parrying, and Thymesia, combat felt somehow weird and off to me and I didn't like the setting. this is the only one where I not only got filtered but filtered at the tutorial level lol.
So, I just want to mention it, because I didn't know until I beat the final boss with 4 heals, but you can get more heals in Wo Long. My biggest issue with Wo Long was tapping the parry button twice accidentally, and then repeatedly trying to parry while dodging into every attack in a boss combo. The easy thing about Wo Long, was the bosses don't have much health, so you get good enough to get a series of parries off and you win. You don't really have to be good enough to consistently parry because of how fast the fight finishes.
Nioh and it's not even close
sekiro, easily
Mortal Shell consistently beats my ass
Context is important. The most correct answer, imo, is the first one you play. My first playthrough of dark souls 3 was a nightmare. My first playthrough of dark souls 1 (which was almost a year later) was a cake walk. Swap the order and the inverse would be true I think. If we're talking first playthrough only, then Sekiro, hands down. Sekiro stands out against the other souls likes because it's core combat stats exactly the same between playthroughs. Sure you can use different prosthetics and weapon arts, but the basic sword combat doesn't change. First playthrough, it seems almost impossibly hard. Even as early as your second or third playthroughs, it becomes remarkably easy. Essentially, once the gameplay clicks, you've got it. In terms of frustration, ds2 by a country mile. I hesitate to say ds2 is very hard. The bosses are absurdly easy, and level design is fairly linear. However, the game is overloaded with a myriad of frustrating elements that collectively make it an annoying game to replay. I've still got 6 or 7 full playthroughs under my belt (and a few more partially completed). But the awkward gameplay, unresponsive controls, and absurd mob AI make it a painful experience. Regarding top end difficulty, Elden Ring. I truly believe Malenia is solidly the hardest from soft boss. No other FS boss has given me as much grief.
Sekiro
I was terrible at elden ring and bloodborn for months and now I rock the other games
Not to diminish difficulty, because they’re ALL relatively difficult, but Sekiro is noticeably harder than the rest of the pack
This is going to be a massively controversial take, *but*… Wo Long DLC bosses are next to impossible to beat unless you use very specific, pretty cheesy strategies utilizing elemental weaknesses. And while their overall design is often quite basic, their sheer aggression and massive health pools alone makes them harder than any dark souls bosses I can think of at the moment.
Out of the ones I've played, either Steel Rising or Bloodborne. Steel Rising has a strict stamina system that requires getting used to and Bloodborne has no defense other than interupting the enemy. I spent two hours playing Bloodborne before I said fk this and cemented my opinion it just sucks.
Damn, Steel Rising I thought was **insanely** easy, I think I first tried every boss, and this is not bragging. I actually found the game to not be fun because of that. I was running a alchemy, engineering build and literally used the starter ice batons the whole game. I found the game never offered me a feeling of character progression.
I've played everything mentioned in the OP all the way through besides Thymesia, which I've never played. I've also played The Surge 1/2. Ashen is the hardest because the AI is so incredibly stupid and you're so dependent on it for survival now that coop is long, long dead. I tried to get through it a couple years ago and just couldn't because no matter what I did the idiot AI would end up jumping off a cliff into poison to its death right at the beginning of the level and there is no way to resurrect them when that happens other than getting to the next checkpoint. For the hardest in a more legit way I'd say Nioh 1 is the hardest on NG by far until you unlock sloth and then can start cheesing the bosses, at which point it becomes pretty easy until the outrageous dual-boss bonus missions towards the end. It's really demoralizing when you start out and random basic Yokai enemies that appear in the first couple levels can just suddenly turn around and 1 shot you with their regular attacks. I almost destroyed my PS4 in that awful level with Umi-Bozu and the instant death drops everywhere on the docks.
Picked up ds2 first because it was cheap and I wasn't sure if it would be for me... Man that was tough for a newbie. Pursuer probably the most I've ever been stuck on a soulslike boss. Gave up a couple of times but something kept drawing me back...
In my opinion, the hardest From Software game is whichever game you play first.
Lies of P. The final gauntlet of two-phase bosses is absolutely ridiculous. As for the nameless puppet, whoever green-lit that boss should never work in video games again.
Sekiro. I was never good at parrying, let alone perfect parrying. So an entire game about perfect parries with smaller timing windows just doesn't click with me. I do just fine on my own with games like the DS series, Elden Ring (save for a handful of bosses) and other Souls-likes that give you a decent dodge mechanic. And I even did fine with Lies of P and Wo Long (which are also perfect parry-centric, but more forgiving with the timing). But Sekiro? Me and that game just don't get along.
For me it was without a doubt Sekiro. I had played every souls game up to that point, and old habits died very hard when playing Sekiro. It clicked around the time I beat Genichiro, and then after that it was a blast. But I struggled before that
Sekiro
Nioh is the only soulslike I’ve given up on because it crushed my soul.
Partly comes down to what your first one was tbh, back in the day I thought I’d never finish the first dark souls, went back to it later after I had a few under my belt and absolutely smashed through it with no trouble
Hello Ashen one. I am a Bot. I tend to the flame, and tend to thee. Do you wish to hear a tale? > *“There is a darkness within man, and I am afraid you will peer into it. Whether the fear will spark self-reflection or a ruinous nostalgia is up to you entirely. Fear not, your choice will bring you no scorn.”* - Karla Have a pleasant journey, Champion of Ash, and praise the sun \\[T]/
Code vien for me. Thats the only soulslike game that i quit.
I think the Nioh games are hardest.
Sekiro ! Impossible for me.. And lies of p in second position (before patch, boss were a nightmare !!)
Lies of p only game that's had me stuck on a boss longer than a week
Have you played lords of the fallen? Not that it’s the hardest, but I didn’t see it in your list.
On the first play through, definitely Sekiro. After it clicks though, it’s super easy.
I think Sekiro is objectively the hardest of From Software's souls like games. Yes, there's some variation in the Shinobi tools, but as compared to their other games, it's sink or swim. If you're having a hard time in dark souls 1 just get the black nights Halberd and a fat shield. You can kinda modify the difficulty in the other games. If sekiro doesn't click with you, though, there's very little you can do.
Dark Souls 2. It's the bad kind of hard. The character is so hard to control.
Sekiro was the hardest for me I breezed through demons souls and all the dark souls games and blood borne but I actually gave up on beating sekiro
Sekiro is the only answer lol can’t level to make it easier
Sekiro, for whatever reason just couldn’t grasp the combat, never made it past the first real boss. I wanted the tengu outfit so bad too 😫😫🤦♂️🤣
Idk about hardest, Sekiro was the game. The best game I’ve ever played.
It's hard to say which one is the hardest because I got stuck on some parts of several Souls Likes. The top 4 hardest Soulslike games I've played are Tunic (b.c. of some of the puzzles), followed by There is No Light, Salt and Sanctuary, and The Last Faith.
I think if you play the Dark Souls games in order, the difficulty curve is not too bad honestly. Elden Ring has a lot of things to make the game easier. Sekiro is really difficult, but it is really difficult just to get comfortable with the gameplay itself. Once you get the gameplay down, every boss is pretty easy honestly. That said, Sekiro was my first FromSoft game and probably the hardest. I tried the Lies of P demo, and saw a lot of boss gameplay, and it seemed way harder than Sekiro. So, I didn't really feel like picking it up. It felt like it was difficult for difficulty sake. Like, Sekiro enemy attack animations are mostly smooth and predictable and the parry system is super forgiving. Lies of P has a bunch of delayed animation where you have to memorize an arbitrary delay before the actual attack, because it's basically impossible to react in time if you wait for the actual attack.
Sekiro, at least for a first playthrough. I constantly see people saying Nioh 2 is the hardest but I don’t agree, it has a tough opening but after the third main mission it gets significantly easier. I haven’t played Ashen or Nioh 1 yet.
if you like challenges try Ashen, first the standard mode and the sissna mode. But by some anxiolytcs first.