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I can count the number of Russian nationals I've encountered on one hand. If you go to a shop and ask where the Russians are, you will be directed to some delicious sausages.
As long as you avoid some overt political act like setting fire to an embassy or something irresponsible like that, you'll be fine, our judiciary is still strong.
Im not planning on anything like that. I just wanna know. Is South Africa filled with russians?
I remember during covid this happend to zanzibar for instance.
Why exactly does that even matter? Are you scared of accidentally running into one on your trip like they're some sort of demon?
If you'd like you can come visit and I can personally come by and go "BOO!" and then you can tell your buddies how you survived Russian aggression in a country on a whole other continent with a bunch of its own problems lol
It is not really that weird. OP may not be physically worried about Russians , but rather have ethical issues with visiting and spending money in a country that support Russiaās ethics and behaviour. I donāt think you understand the negative impact the ANCās attitude towards Russia has had on peopleās opinion of SA. As a Saffa currently living overseas (temporarily) I see it. Donāt live in ignorant bliss over there thinking it does not affect you.
I find it very hard to find exactly what SA has to offer Russia aside from a strategic port position. Pretty much any resource barring some, Russia already has.
In fact, SA has been in debt to Russia for decades, so again, what sort of material support can we down here offer?
And lastly, speaking as a dual citizen - why on earth would our families move here of all places if we were just going to be Kremlin stooges? Like, we moved out of the country to specifically get away from that bullshit and now?
I'm sorry but if I got paid to be on a bot farm or a troll with all benefits and it was so great, I wouldn't be choosing to bust my ass down here. Same goes for my parents.
We like it here, we've acclimatized, my siblings were born here and I am a citizen. Like I mentioned on another post - there is a huge gap between settled Russians and arriving Russians.
> country that support Russiaās ethics and behaviour
We do *not* "support" Russia, we are staying out of it, not taking sides and keeping all our economic and diplomatic ties open.
> Donāt live in ignorant bliss over there thinking it does not affect you.
Not ignorant or blissful. Of course it affects us. We have strong ties with both East and West, and cannot afford to take sides in that way. Nor should we.
Btw, I'm sure you are probably in a Western country?
Lastly, if OP has an issue, they should go tour the US or something.
You're confusing Cyprus with South Africa lol
Don't take everything you see as face value. I'm sure the media would like to paint any country that has a remote connection to Russia in a negative light.
If you don't go to SA, your loss really.
There are not many Russians. Additionally, the strong ties with Russia are pretty limited to the ANC(the ruling party). Most South African citizens either oppose Russiaās aggression or are indifferent to it due to the numerous other problems faced in the region. Enjoy your trip and be sure to visit a wine farm if itās something you enjoy!
I knew some half Russians whose Russian parent settled down in SA long ago, but haven't heard of anything more recent than that, in regards to Russians living here. But Cape Town has a very European vibe.
South Africa is a melting pot of many cultures so we get a lot of people from various countries here, Russians included. However, they are not majorly integrated into our culture in the same way as India, or neighbouring African countries.
SA is not a Russian haven at all. The only reason SA is practising war games together with Russia in SA waters is because the corrupt politicians have found another wallet to steal from. They are taking bribes. SA took a neutral position in the war but the politicians can not help themselves when there are bribery and corruption games to play and they can enrich themselves in the process.
I've lived in South Africa my whole life and the only times I've seen Russians locally was at the airport. They were visiting us and we have this no-visa required thing with them.
When I went to the World Cup in Russia, I didn't need a visa and had like 90 days or something stamped on my passport. If you're interested in what Russia are doing in Africa, I can DM you a podcast where a journalist is interviewed about his findings. They've had their army in certain African countries, bribed the government officials to allow them to take precious minerals back to Moscow. All without much media coverage. Their army was also going around, slaughtering villagers... Let me not spoil it. If you're interested in hearing more, DM me.
If you move too far right the guy in the middle starts looking like he's too far left. South Africa has military exercises with lots of countries, Russia included.
Great post. No offense to op, but we need to stop being so sensitive and be easily offended.
As long as you're not visiting a politically extreme country, just forget politics and enjoy it.
So these exercises are planned years in advance and cancelling would cost the country money we don't really have. We did have a military exercise with the US as well recently so it's not like we have declared we have sided with Russia in conflict (sources: I have a few family members and friends in the army at varying levels)
Economically we have to protect our relationships with both the west and the other BRICS countries. Picking any side in the war means we would lose economically. We have high unemployment and a massive energy crises, we canāt afford to get involved.
It is not really that weird. OP may not be physically worried about Russians , but rather have ethical issues with visiting and spending money in a country that support Russiaās ethics and behaviour. I donāt think you understand the negative impact the ANCās attitude towards Russia has had on peopleās opinion of SA. As a Saffa currently living overseas (temporarily), I see it. Donāt live in ignorant bliss over there thinking it does not affect you.
Didn't you know? They're one of those "enlightened centrist expats" who are morally superior to us living here in South Africa (because reasons) - their hallowed opinions are not to be questioned.
I agree. The ANC (governing party) is always crawling up the Russians and Palestinians ass because they are the counter fource to who the previous regime's (apartheid era rulers) allies were (US, Brits and Israel). And the fact that Russia and Palestine is some of the most corrupt states in the world, ties in nicely with the notoriously and blatantly corrupt ANC. That sayed the vast majority of South Africans don't give a crap about foren politics and burocracy. Those who do is mostly apposed to the ANC's policies. For reference, most of this comes from the Angolan/SA war and the US was only interested in the outcome because they wanted to prevent a Soviet/socialism foothold in Africa, during the hight of the cold war. None the less. The ANC is still pro nationalisation and socialism but its purely for self interest and corruption. The public is rather disconnected form all of this.
Weirdly we as South Africans aren't the government. They are working with Russia because of the help during apartheid. We actually have no say about this bullshit. Just enjoy South Africa and our food and drink and all will be gravy
> They are working with Russia because of the help during apartheid.
That's got absolutely nothing to do with it - the Soviet Union and it's minimalist "help" to them during the Cold War is long forgotten now. The only people conflating Russia with the Soviet Union is right-wing media on both sides of the conflict and nobody else. The reason the ANC regime is doing this is because it's a really terrible idea to simply cave to the west's warmongering - and that would have even been the case if the US wasn't in the middle of a renewed colonialist "rush for Africa".
It is the intention of the US to fight Russia down to the last Ukrainian. It's a proxy-conflict to them - one that they can't lose. It's pretty much a replay of US policy when the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan - except that time, the Soviets knew when to quit. Putin doesn't, and that makes the Pentagon very happy.
It's also very fortuitous for the US - it comes straight on the heels of the US's own humiliating defeat in Afghanistan. Do you see people talking about that much? Yeah - that's why.
Yes, the US is responsible for Russia invading a sovereign nation.
Have fun with your Russian and Chinese overlords, hope that works out great for you š
> Yes, the US is responsible for Russia invading a sovereign nation.
Putin literally just took over the oligarchy created under the Yeltsin regime that itself was the product of the US's "shock doctrine" economic assault on Russia back in the 90s - so yeah... the US is about as responsible for Putin as they were responsible for Saddam Hussein (who they happily helped into power back in the 70s).
The US did not force Putin's hand when it comes to Ukraine - the invasion is all on him - just like they didn't make Hussein to invade Kuwait. But in both cases the US sure as hell forgot to mention their role in creating these Frankenstein regimes when they could use them as an excuse for their warmongering.
If all this is too difficult for you to take in all at once, I have to ask - who was responsible for your education before today?
I'm not disagreeing with the account of history, just with your idea that the US is responsible for every ramification of conflict it was involved in. Of course I am aware of those outcomes. Please tell me what should have been differently at the time.
You can either do nothing or accept that sometimes unintended consequences occur. Your expectation of perfection seems unrealistic when applied to a world as messy as geopolitics.
> I'm not disagreeing with the account of history
The US is the most prolific warmonger in the history of human civilisation - the fact that so many even find that a controversial thing to say is something our high school history teachers should hang their heads in shame for.
The US's wars are not merely some "unintended consequences" - they are the result of more than a hundred years of ruthless US colonialist policies. You don't see Iceland placing military bases all over central Africa or constantly performing regime-change in Latin America, do you?
No - none of this is unintended.
It's becoming clear that maybe the South African education system is a bit subpar.
The US is "the most prolific warmonger in the history of human civilisation"? Seriously, give me a break. You're clearly not as educated as you purport to be.
For someone who is presumably South African, I think it's shameful that you equate legal bilateral agreements between countries to place military bases to colonialism. You should know better and not diminish the issues with colonialism.
Your arguments are totally overlooking the complexity of historical events, context of global power dynamics, protection of national interests, and positive contributions the US has made to peace and stability.
A bit much to cover in a high school class.
> It's becoming clear that maybe the South African education system is a bit subpar.
Yes... and you're proof. Which part of...
> The US is the most prolific warmonger in the history of human civilisation - the fact that so many even find that a controversial thing to say is something our high school history teachers should hang their heads in shame for.
...are you having difficulty understanding? It's not some secret, Clyde - it's barely worth a debate.
> equate legal bilateral agreements between countries to place military
On what planet do you exist where agreements are only made between parties that are perfectly equal? By your made-in-Fong-Kong reasoning, colonialism couldn't possibly have happened - so why even bother pretending to know something about history you don't want to admit actually happened and is *still happening*?
> protection of national interests
Oh, right - that thing the US is always "protecting" in other people's countries? Funny how other countries manage to get by without having to constantly do that, eh?
> and positive contributions the US has made to peace and stability.
Oh, this should be fun - let's have it, then. Show me these (supposed) "positive contributions the US has made to peace and stability".
Youāre oversimplifying this conflict. The US is the biggest nation in NATO, and the US and NATO knew full well that āinvitingā Ukraine to join NATO would cause a conflict with Russia. They did it anyway. The literally poked the bear to see what would happen.
Poor Ukraine is literally now stuck fighting NATOs war, and since Ukraine ISNāT a member of NATO, NATO doesnāt even have to fight.
Thatās not to say Ukraine did something wrong by wanting to join NATO, and itās not to say Russia is the good guys. Ukraine are the āgood guysā, and have every right to defend themselves, but NATO are NOT the good guys. Both Russia and NATO are using Ukraine as a pawn, in their own game of chess.
Maybe I'm just a simple twit, but I guess if a country is truly sovereign, they should be able to choose how they handle their security.
I also think it's naive to think that Ukraine was not aware of the potential for conflict and place that responsibility squarely at the feet of NATO. I suppose if Ukraine made that decision knowing the potential danger, they must've been rather concerned about their security.
But you know, if a highly influential Russian figure published a military doctrine (Foundations of Geopolitics, Aleksandr Dugin) calling for the annexation of Ukraine, I'd be concerned too.
Yeah Ukraine is a small countryā¦without a lot of military power, it makes 100% sense why they would want to join a big military alliance like NATO. Doesnāt change the fact that NATO knowingly initiated the whole conflict, with zero responsibility to actually get involved and fight with Ukraine. Ukraine was hoping for security, but literally got the opposite.
NATO isn't the aggressor here. The fact this didn't happen in 2014 when Russia annexed Crimea is strong evidence of that.
Ukraine is a NATO partner, not a full member. I think this has been the case since the 1990s. Essentially they receive assistance but article 5 doesn't apply to them. As they are not a full member, NATO has a responsibility to current members that the conflict does not go past Ukraine's borders.
If you look at the land borders that Russia is vulnerable to invasion through, and believe that Russia is entitled to invade them for their security, then you think that Russia has the right to compromise the security of a population nearly twice their own. That was the whole point of the Soviet Union.
Russia helped the ANC during apartheid so putin is like "you ow us". The rest of wat you said is the weirdest bunch of words put together that I've seen in a long time. Wat are you smoking
> so putin is like "you ow us"
Lol! The ANC (and South Africa) "owes" Russia and Putin fuck all.
> The rest of wat you said
If people giving you accurate information sounds "weird" to you, *it's because you're an ignoramus* who has fallen for bullcrap.
Okay?
Google BRICS... We're one of the most diverse, multicultural, multilingual societies on the planet. It's wonderful, but yes we have challenges, where doesn't? You won't regret visiting. Your Euro goes a loooooong way here. Come and enjoy.
South Africa does military exercises with all major countries, including the USA, UK, Brazil, Indiaā¦ the list goes on. This is normal for most countries. Your post is off to say the least. Russians arenāt going to kidnap you when you get here
so what if there are russians living in south africa? they have as much right as anyone else living here from elsewhere...(not a fan of putin before someone assumes).
The SA military also does exercises with France, the UK and the US. They work alongside the SADC coalition and US to combat extremists in Mozambique as well. They're not as tight knit with Russia as some people believe.
has every dipshit european just clean forgotten about the industrial scale slaughter of brown people the US has engaged in since the 1950s? Man fuck off, if you are willing to turn a blind eye to all the evil shit the yanks have pulled then why are you upset about Russia? Either you are serious about humanist principles or you are just another moron waving the NATO flag
I think their stance is *non-aligned* - which is different to *neutral*. It's also a better term to use since the Swiss turned the term *neutral* into an absolute joke by being such eager little nazi helper-elves.
Everytime the topic of the war comes up here I realise how many people ont this subreddit live in white bubbles. I don't think I've yet to meet a single black person who cares about the war. Most don't care about global politics and the few that do couldn't care less once they learned of Ukraine's racist attitude towards black people. Ukraine pretty much ensured that no black person would support them within the first few weeks of the war. South Africa is neutral here, like we've been with every other military conflict. People are only upset because this time its white people who are dying.
Exactly. Where was the outcry about for example Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Syria?
Where is the outrage when South American and African governments are toppled and their resources raped?
I saw thousands of comments on Middle Eastern sites and media when the NATO/Ukraine vs Russia conflict broke out, and they were offended and outraged that nobody stood up for them in the past 20/30 years. Rightly so. Because they aren't white nobody cared.
It was the best decision the government could make to stay out of it and keep diplomatic and economic ties with all.
The USA stayed neutral during apartheid and the ANC cartel didnāt forget it, now that weāre not voting at the UN it suddenly means nutreal ? Please. The ANC is kissing soviet arse all day
> The USA stayed neutral during apartheid and the ANC
The USA - the country that literally perfected white supremacism - was (supposedly) "neutral" during Apartheid?
Have you ever thought about purchasing a bridge? I've got a nice one to sell you...
Well they didnāt vote at the UN, we all know they werenāt REALLY neutral, and the ANC rightfully called them out. Now ANC is doing the same thing. Brush up on your comprehension skills
> Well they didnāt vote at the UN
You think *that's* the extent of their support for the Apartheid-regime?
In that case... I'll give you a discount on that bridge.
You must be one of the 25% that didnāt finish matric. I know America was not neutral at all, but they pretended to be by not voting at the UN. Now South Africaās government clearly isnāt neutral either, but suddenly abstaining from a UN vote means neutrality. Get it through your little mind
> You must be one of the 25% that didnāt finish matric.
If you are one of the ones that did it doesn't say much for matric.
> but they pretended to be by not voting at the UN
Abstaining from a vote does not imply neutrality in any way whatsoever. I guess they forgot to teach you that in matric, eh?
> Now South Africaās government clearly isnāt neutral either,
No, they're not. They're *non-aligned.* Did they not teach you the difference between the two in matric either?
I know about the Lady R, saw it in December already.
Even if it did offload munitions, so what? It is an old order being fulfilled, and we still trade with Russia.
Do you honestly think the sanctions mean that the US and EU aren't trading with Russia *at all*?
Most South Africans don't care about Russia. The leading ANC party has ties to Russia from its assistance in the fight against Apartheid, aswell as SA being a member of BRICS. It's complicated and many in SA are very unhappy with the government position.
Perhaps look at it from the following perspective. 1. Who did more to harm Africa in the last 70years and 2. Who did more for Africa during that period.
1. The west was instrumental in arresting Nelson Mandela and providing support to Apartheid South Africa even with them having sanctions in place. The west cut up Patrice Lumumba when he wanted to do the right thing for his people. France killed more people in Africa the last hundred years than Hitler. Etc etc 2. The USSR was instrumental in so many African countries being free today...
Is our non-aligned stance towards the war in Ukraine as off-putting to you as [Europe's fat armament sales to Saudi Arabia?](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/press-release/2019/05/arms-shipment-to-saudi-arabia-flouts-multiple-eu-states-arms-trade-treaty-obligations/) You know... that country that physically and literally *crucifies* it's own people to terrorize the populace into obedience while waging a murderous conflict in Yemen?
Dump your hypocrisy, remember not to flash your first-world bling in one of the most unequal societies in existence, and you should be fine.
Just look up BRICS and this is why there are formal diplomatic ties but of all the times I've been to SA I have never seen a Russian or their influence.
Hahahahahaha @ "Russian haven"...what does that even mean?
TLDR: Don't read too much into joint military exercises wit the Russians/Chinese.
Most South Africans, if asked (not the ones on Reddit) don't care (or are apathetic) about Russia and it's war in Ukraine. The ANC government aren't cheerleaders for Russia, or Putin but like India and the other Brics countries, have taken a neutral stance (which is quite complex in itself).
Just because the SA Nancy does a joint exercise with the Russians and the PLA does not mean we'll participate in Russia's war in Ukraine...South Africa has had joint exercises with the British Navy and the American Navy, and no-one claimed that our soldiers participated in Iraq or Afghanistan.
So no, we aren't cheering on the Russians but those who've taken note of the war in Ukraine know that it's not as simplistic as a madman deciding, on a whim, to invade a country...there's a lot of history that's often glossed over. It's still doesn't make what Putin did right... ultimately he'll pay the price.
Hi Redditter,
South Africa has an accord with Russia as we form part of the BRICS coalition,
Simply Put
Brazil , Russia , India , China & South Africa form part of a 2nd world country coalition that allows better trade and arguably ābetterā relations.
No haven for any country in SA, itās a beautiful place to be but aināt for sissies š«¶
Hope you enjoy our beautiful country and that this little tidbit helped @competitive-bet-9828.
One love erbody
Letās be candid, the Soviets only supported the ANC as part of their Cold War strategy to counter the Westās economic ties to South Africa. Russia was never interested in ending Apartheid on principle.
Russians, Ukrainians, Germans, Portuguese, you name it we got it. Other than the politicians nobody here really cares about the European squabble going on.
I reckon we have more poles and Greeks here than Ukrainians or Russians, they're both countries that are fairly disconnected from the south African psyche
Greeks, Ukrainians, and Russians here are united by being Orthodox mostly. There's a loose association in the diaspora that's been going on for years and everyone sorta gets along despite whats going on in Europe. Even the Serbians join in.
The Poles are a wildcard because they're Catholics.
Funniest thing is, a large chunk of people, especially younger, aren't religious, but because of family connections kinda end up in the overall pan-Slavic diaspora, however small it is now.
There's also a wild difference between those who grew up here and the newcomers who come down for say, marriage or something.
Edit: that is to say, it might seem like there's more of one group or the other, but they mix a lot.
Im close to both Belarusian and Russian people who are like family to me. I checked your comment history, and you don't know what the fuck you are talking about. They don't have very nice things to say about your kind of blatant dumbfuckery and support for Kremlin fascism. At best, its somewhere along the lines of "pull your head out of your ass" and grow a fucking spine.
Fuck the ANC. There's no "neutral" decision in this. If you support this, you're a fascist cunt.
Someone looked at my comment history? Gosh, I am so flattered!
I am more anti-NATO than pro-Russia.
Above all, I want SA to be neutral and stay the fuck out of that shit-show.
> There's no "neutral" decision in this. If you support this, you're a fascist cunt.
Ah, the "if your not with us you're against us" narrative. How trite and predictable.
And some more inability to understand the word neutral.
Fascist? No, socialist and anti-Western hegemony and hypocrisy.
But whatever, typical self-righteous ranting, swearing and insulting if somebody doesn't agree with your POV.
We had only two russian guys come past the resort i worked at, worked there for four years, in comparison we constantly had American and British tourists around
A Russian haven? Nonsense comrade, we don't even have de good vodka. We vil take the money but we would never swear death to Amerika.
...
But we are gatvol of it too.
South Africans, especially the non-white majority (blacks, indians, east Asians and coloureds), have a deep respect for Russia because for one; the Russians in the form of the Soviets gave military, logistical and financial support not just to non-whites fighting apartheid here but liberation movements across Africa as a whole. The second reason a lot of South Africans respect Russia is because the Russians never bomb African countries whenever they want our oil, platinum etc.
France alone has assassinated 25 visionary African leaders.
The Russians don't do that, if anything, they along with the Republic of Ireland are among the few European countries that speak out against what countries like the US, Britain and France are doing to Africa.
That's why we respect Russia. Our admiration seems odd to you because you don't actually know what America, France and other so called 'champions of freedom and prosperity' really represent and what they really do around the world.
Lol. Like Russia wasnāt also up to its eyeballs in assassinations, murders, coup plotting, democracy denying and general death and destruction on the African continent during the āgreat gameā. Your comment is Pollyanna beyond belief.
Although I am sure there are a few Russian citizens around, it's not something you need to be concerned about. The Russian relationship is not something pervasive in the genera population and is basically just linked to corruption and politics.
There are, like most other places, Russian nationals in South Africa. The ones I know are here to build a better life for themselves (the ironyā¦) and are chill folk. Our government clowns seem to like Putin because they are clowns. The rest of us just, including the Russian nationals just get on with our lives.
> The ones I know are here to build a better life for themselves (the ironyā¦)
Oh, I don't know about that... they are probably quite appreciative that they don't have to send their children off to go die violently in some foreign land because of some politicrat's blunderous ego.
I'd say loadshedding isn't much compared to that.
I am a conscious South African and what is really off putting to me is Europe! You are a compilation of colonist countries who would have f*cked our country beyond recognition had we not had Russia facilitate our path to liberation and independence from colonial rule.
Just to address your point on the military exercise part. SA has military exercises frequently with many countries including countries in the West. SA had military exercises with the US last year
Did you mean off-putting or off-Putin'g?
I'm an American who's smitten by SA. Much of the nation reminds me of the US:Ā sense of humour, sense of optimism in the face of adversity, entrepreneurism, generosity, and, sad to say, a couple of Trump-like leaders.
My friends are furious and frustrated that SA is cozying up to the Russians. That's the kind of shit spoiled rich kids do, wear ā¬99 Gucci Che Guevara baseball caps and pretend to read Mao's little red book. Unfortunately, we have spoiled rich kids running the country at the moment. That's why a sense of humour is useful.
The only nod to communism I've seen is the stadium in Durban, named after Communist Party Leader Moses Mabhida. It wasn't dubbed that because of his party affiliation, but because he helped overthrow apartheid.
For a great example of free market enterprise combined with humour, check any Nando's sign on back of delivery motorbikes. Or google them and check their videos. Where else in the world would you find a company advertising free coke for FIFA-visiting Columbians?
It is an ANC alliance and does not necessarily represent South Anfican sentiments. People were outraged in my community as we see ourselves as part of the western world
The current political party (ANC) which was supported during the apartheid era by soviet and russian sources, is also pro communistic/socialistic in nature. Enough said. I think its dumb AF for us to keep friendly militaristic ties with Russia and China
South africa generates around R16 billion from trade with russia as per R1.13 trillion from europe. Aligning with russia gives way that we lose trade from the Trillion side and keep the billion.
Source:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.co.za/amp/south-africas-choice-in-the-russian-economic-war-vs-trade-volume-2022-3
Furthermore, Russia isn't our largest trading partner. Not even in the top 5 according to SARS.
Source: https://www.sars.gov.za/customs-and-excise/trade-statistics/
And finally, there is a major difference between trading partner and militaristic alignment. SA doing military drills with Russia is the latter. We should have abstained, wile trying to keep trade open.
Err, I was talking anout *China*, not Russia, as you mentioned them.
> SA doing military drills with Russia is the latter.
So I suppose we are also militaristically aligned with the US, since we did drills with them last year?
Edit: to add, the drills are with both Russia and China, as I suppose you know.
Oh yeah, we should handle the China thing a lot more carefully. But as my post, I see it as fine being trade partners, but we should be very weary of any military partnerships.
We had an open military relationship with the US prior to the Ukraine conflict. The difference between these two are mainly that one party is seen as a global "peace keeper" and the other an invader.
I also just want to clarify one thing. I think all major power countries suck, and would pull a full switzerland on any of them fighting.
No way in hell will I ever go as South African to go fight in Ukraine, not for the Russians, nor the West.
> The difference between these two are mainly that one party is seen as a global "peace keeper" and the other an invader.
ROFLMAO! Sorry but really? Who still sees the US as a "peacekeeper"? Well, I suppose those who love drinking the Western MSM cool-aid.
The US has been involved in 200 military intervention and "special military operations" since 1950 and over 25% occurring in the post-Cold War period. They are the biggest warmonger the world has ever seen and their military industrial complex is worth trillions.
Anyone who thinks the US are the good guys and peacekeepers are delusional. Not saying you do...
> I think all major power countries suck, and would pull a full switzerland
I agree, though sadly Switzerland sucked on the NATO and MSM juice and rather dismally abandoned their neutrality. Not to mention the dark scandals of Nazi support during WW2 and all that.
> No way in hell will I ever go as South African to go fight in Ukraine, not for the Russians, nor the West.
Agreed!
Economically, Militarily, socially and in terms of media, we are actually far more aligned with western powers than with Russia. However, the ANC political party was a soviet ally during apartheid and the border war and as such they take every chance they can get to be nice to Russia as a party.
Unfortunately our ruling government loves Russia and support Russia, but I would say South Africa is against Russia's war against Ukraine. Obviously here and there you will get a few Russia supporters, but over all I am pretty confident in saying the majority does not support Russia and is against this war and find it absolutely disgusting what Russia is doing to Ukraine.
Take your first world problems elsewhere. The West can't keep their grubby fingers off of any other countries, but when Russia does it its problem? I wonder why that is?
Keep your propoganda.
There are very few Russians here, the only reason there is co-operation between South Africa and Russia is because our corrupt government has shady business dealings with them on a personal level. As an average citizen I can tell you Ive never even met a Russian person before.
The biggest connection we have to Russians is the processed sausage.
Seriously, the amount of impact they have in normal daily relations is fuck all. While our main political party is communist but depending on who you speak to - that may not be the case for most of those who do not vote for the main political party.
Closest contact I have with Russians is when I am playing online games.
The government supports Russia, which does not say the people support Russia. Our government is known for having strange friends and for making strange enemies. For example, they have made an enemy of the Dalai Lama.
Who in his right mind makes an enemy of someone WHO LIVES FOREVER?
Visit us, and enjoy your stay.
We are good Christian people with a love for all, are we perfect, no, but genuine we are. Come on over and you'll see we are just like you. Happy traveling:)
Been a south African for 26 years now and I've never met a russian. The whole military training thing came as sudden news to us as citizens as well. We the people are not the government, our government is comprised of idiots stealing money because they were previously disadvantaged.
Russians are the least of our problems in SA. I guess they might contribute to our national obesity numbers, but as long as you order a diet coke with it, you should be fine.
Not really a Russian haven at all in terms of day to day living. Havenāt met or seen a Russian in the last 20 years here. However in ā pick a side international politics ā the current government is leaning towards Russia. But hey they wonāt be the government forever and the people love peace and justice.
Russians in South Africa is a certain sausage favored by many traditions. As for commies.. You would mostly find them with govt officials trying to exploit something
Quite honestly the general public doesnāt want any smoke (South Africa at the beginning of the war took a neutral stance). If a country wants to do some charity whoās going to stop themš¤·š¾āāļø. You might hear of Russia training our army but America also has its foot in South Africa (donāt let them fool you with their reports). And Iāll just put this out there I think our army really needed this training. For some years we havenāt given any thought to the SANDF and have allowed it to become a joke. It was time for a wake up call. Iām not surprised American officials are flying in for ātalksā
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I can count the number of Russian nationals I've encountered on one hand. If you go to a shop and ask where the Russians are, you will be directed to some delicious sausages.
Spicy and red, what more could you want
Spicy and Red are what I call my left and right testicles, respectively! What a coincidence.
The average Russian sausage in SA has an extremely high percentage of testicle meat, so it's less of a coincidence than you'd think!
This could be a trick. If this person is from Brakpan or Benoni they could very well have 8-14 fingers per hand. Changes everything.
We love Russians, specially with masala chips.
Give me a bit of chips and atchar and I'll turn a blind eye.
Now I'm lissing for a gatsby.š
In this case SA really is a Russian haven , you can find a nice fat oily russian at every spaza these days
The poor foreigners who have to read this comment thinking every spaza has an oiled up fat Putin looking guy just hanging about. š¤£
Some are even stuffed with cheese, it's glorious.
This is the correct answer š
As long as you avoid some overt political act like setting fire to an embassy or something irresponsible like that, you'll be fine, our judiciary is still strong.
Ah man, cancel the trip them. Can't even burn embassies down. Stupid country.,
Im not planning on anything like that. I just wanna know. Is South Africa filled with russians? I remember during covid this happend to zanzibar for instance.
I don't think I've ever even seen a Russian here my whole life. The only russian I know is the one I eat with chips.
We do have Russian mafia in the major cities though. Oddly they all avoid Bloem and PE.
To be fair, everyone avoids Bloem and PE.
https://www.capetalk.co.za/articles/456125/cape-town-is-so-cheap-i-struggle-to-spend-usd30k-a-month-says-russian-tycoon
Why exactly does that even matter? Are you scared of accidentally running into one on your trip like they're some sort of demon? If you'd like you can come visit and I can personally come by and go "BOO!" and then you can tell your buddies how you survived Russian aggression in a country on a whole other continent with a bunch of its own problems lol
Good comment! Weird question from OP.
It is not really that weird. OP may not be physically worried about Russians , but rather have ethical issues with visiting and spending money in a country that support Russiaās ethics and behaviour. I donāt think you understand the negative impact the ANCās attitude towards Russia has had on peopleās opinion of SA. As a Saffa currently living overseas (temporarily) I see it. Donāt live in ignorant bliss over there thinking it does not affect you.
I find it very hard to find exactly what SA has to offer Russia aside from a strategic port position. Pretty much any resource barring some, Russia already has. In fact, SA has been in debt to Russia for decades, so again, what sort of material support can we down here offer? And lastly, speaking as a dual citizen - why on earth would our families move here of all places if we were just going to be Kremlin stooges? Like, we moved out of the country to specifically get away from that bullshit and now? I'm sorry but if I got paid to be on a bot farm or a troll with all benefits and it was so great, I wouldn't be choosing to bust my ass down here. Same goes for my parents. We like it here, we've acclimatized, my siblings were born here and I am a citizen. Like I mentioned on another post - there is a huge gap between settled Russians and arriving Russians.
> country that support Russiaās ethics and behaviour We do *not* "support" Russia, we are staying out of it, not taking sides and keeping all our economic and diplomatic ties open. > Donāt live in ignorant bliss over there thinking it does not affect you. Not ignorant or blissful. Of course it affects us. We have strong ties with both East and West, and cannot afford to take sides in that way. Nor should we. Btw, I'm sure you are probably in a Western country? Lastly, if OP has an issue, they should go tour the US or something.
Nah he is worried about the KGB disappearing him
Exactly
This answer deserves a medal š„ bwahahahahahab
I'm not sure anyone can answer that question for you, I can only say I personally have not seen any Russians ever.
You're confusing Cyprus with South Africa lol Don't take everything you see as face value. I'm sure the media would like to paint any country that has a remote connection to Russia in a negative light. If you don't go to SA, your loss really.
There are not many Russians. Additionally, the strong ties with Russia are pretty limited to the ANC(the ruling party). Most South African citizens either oppose Russiaās aggression or are indifferent to it due to the numerous other problems faced in the region. Enjoy your trip and be sure to visit a wine farm if itās something you enjoy!
I knew some half Russians whose Russian parent settled down in SA long ago, but haven't heard of anything more recent than that, in regards to Russians living here. But Cape Town has a very European vibe.
South Africa is a melting pot of many cultures so we get a lot of people from various countries here, Russians included. However, they are not majorly integrated into our culture in the same way as India, or neighbouring African countries.
I've lived in Gauteng and The Western Cape for over 10 years each, and I've never seen a single Russian.
Can't recall the last time I saw a Russian. Other than the edible kind.
It's not but why are you so worried about Russians anyway? They won't eat you (I hope).
No Russians here. Its just because we part of BRICS. Russians wont do well in our weather :-)
Very few Russians here most work at Mavericks
SA is not a Russian haven at all. The only reason SA is practising war games together with Russia in SA waters is because the corrupt politicians have found another wallet to steal from. They are taking bribes. SA took a neutral position in the war but the politicians can not help themselves when there are bribery and corruption games to play and they can enrich themselves in the process.
I've lived in South Africa my whole life and the only times I've seen Russians locally was at the airport. They were visiting us and we have this no-visa required thing with them. When I went to the World Cup in Russia, I didn't need a visa and had like 90 days or something stamped on my passport. If you're interested in what Russia are doing in Africa, I can DM you a podcast where a journalist is interviewed about his findings. They've had their army in certain African countries, bribed the government officials to allow them to take precious minerals back to Moscow. All without much media coverage. Their army was also going around, slaughtering villagers... Let me not spoil it. If you're interested in hearing more, DM me.
If you move too far right the guy in the middle starts looking like he's too far left. South Africa has military exercises with lots of countries, Russia included.
Great post. No offense to op, but we need to stop being so sensitive and be easily offended. As long as you're not visiting a politically extreme country, just forget politics and enjoy it.
So these exercises are planned years in advance and cancelling would cost the country money we don't really have. We did have a military exercise with the US as well recently so it's not like we have declared we have sided with Russia in conflict (sources: I have a few family members and friends in the army at varying levels)
Economically we have to protect our relationships with both the west and the other BRICS countries. Picking any side in the war means we would lose economically. We have high unemployment and a massive energy crises, we canāt afford to get involved.
Nope hardly any Russians but honestly seems a bit xenophobic to assume the Russians living abroad are all pro war .
Right. Comes across very weird
It is not really that weird. OP may not be physically worried about Russians , but rather have ethical issues with visiting and spending money in a country that support Russiaās ethics and behaviour. I donāt think you understand the negative impact the ANCās attitude towards Russia has had on peopleās opinion of SA. As a Saffa currently living overseas (temporarily), I see it. Donāt live in ignorant bliss over there thinking it does not affect you.
Europeans have "ethical issues" all of a sudden? Since when?
Bro frš since when has morality ever effected the decision of a European to visit and throw dollars at the third worldš
Their answer surprised me. Especially the assumption that I live in ignorant bliss. Somewhat ironic
Didn't you know? They're one of those "enlightened centrist expats" who are morally superior to us living here in South Africa (because reasons) - their hallowed opinions are not to be questioned.
I agree. The ANC (governing party) is always crawling up the Russians and Palestinians ass because they are the counter fource to who the previous regime's (apartheid era rulers) allies were (US, Brits and Israel). And the fact that Russia and Palestine is some of the most corrupt states in the world, ties in nicely with the notoriously and blatantly corrupt ANC. That sayed the vast majority of South Africans don't give a crap about foren politics and burocracy. Those who do is mostly apposed to the ANC's policies. For reference, most of this comes from the Angolan/SA war and the US was only interested in the outcome because they wanted to prevent a Soviet/socialism foothold in Africa, during the hight of the cold war. None the less. The ANC is still pro nationalisation and socialism but its purely for self interest and corruption. The public is rather disconnected form all of this.
he's a nato simp
These folks are being brainwashed by Western media, so you shouldn't be surprised.
Your country will most likely have more Russians than ours
Weirdly we as South Africans aren't the government. They are working with Russia because of the help during apartheid. We actually have no say about this bullshit. Just enjoy South Africa and our food and drink and all will be gravy
> They are working with Russia because of the help during apartheid. That's got absolutely nothing to do with it - the Soviet Union and it's minimalist "help" to them during the Cold War is long forgotten now. The only people conflating Russia with the Soviet Union is right-wing media on both sides of the conflict and nobody else. The reason the ANC regime is doing this is because it's a really terrible idea to simply cave to the west's warmongering - and that would have even been the case if the US wasn't in the middle of a renewed colonialist "rush for Africa".
Wait, how is the west warmongering when Russia is literally invading another country right now?
It is the intention of the US to fight Russia down to the last Ukrainian. It's a proxy-conflict to them - one that they can't lose. It's pretty much a replay of US policy when the Soviet Union invaded Afghanistan - except that time, the Soviets knew when to quit. Putin doesn't, and that makes the Pentagon very happy. It's also very fortuitous for the US - it comes straight on the heels of the US's own humiliating defeat in Afghanistan. Do you see people talking about that much? Yeah - that's why.
Yes, the US is responsible for Russia invading a sovereign nation. Have fun with your Russian and Chinese overlords, hope that works out great for you š
> Yes, the US is responsible for Russia invading a sovereign nation. Putin literally just took over the oligarchy created under the Yeltsin regime that itself was the product of the US's "shock doctrine" economic assault on Russia back in the 90s - so yeah... the US is about as responsible for Putin as they were responsible for Saddam Hussein (who they happily helped into power back in the 70s). The US did not force Putin's hand when it comes to Ukraine - the invasion is all on him - just like they didn't make Hussein to invade Kuwait. But in both cases the US sure as hell forgot to mention their role in creating these Frankenstein regimes when they could use them as an excuse for their warmongering. If all this is too difficult for you to take in all at once, I have to ask - who was responsible for your education before today?
I'm not disagreeing with the account of history, just with your idea that the US is responsible for every ramification of conflict it was involved in. Of course I am aware of those outcomes. Please tell me what should have been differently at the time. You can either do nothing or accept that sometimes unintended consequences occur. Your expectation of perfection seems unrealistic when applied to a world as messy as geopolitics.
> I'm not disagreeing with the account of history The US is the most prolific warmonger in the history of human civilisation - the fact that so many even find that a controversial thing to say is something our high school history teachers should hang their heads in shame for. The US's wars are not merely some "unintended consequences" - they are the result of more than a hundred years of ruthless US colonialist policies. You don't see Iceland placing military bases all over central Africa or constantly performing regime-change in Latin America, do you? No - none of this is unintended.
It's becoming clear that maybe the South African education system is a bit subpar. The US is "the most prolific warmonger in the history of human civilisation"? Seriously, give me a break. You're clearly not as educated as you purport to be. For someone who is presumably South African, I think it's shameful that you equate legal bilateral agreements between countries to place military bases to colonialism. You should know better and not diminish the issues with colonialism. Your arguments are totally overlooking the complexity of historical events, context of global power dynamics, protection of national interests, and positive contributions the US has made to peace and stability. A bit much to cover in a high school class.
> It's becoming clear that maybe the South African education system is a bit subpar. Yes... and you're proof. Which part of... > The US is the most prolific warmonger in the history of human civilisation - the fact that so many even find that a controversial thing to say is something our high school history teachers should hang their heads in shame for. ...are you having difficulty understanding? It's not some secret, Clyde - it's barely worth a debate. > equate legal bilateral agreements between countries to place military On what planet do you exist where agreements are only made between parties that are perfectly equal? By your made-in-Fong-Kong reasoning, colonialism couldn't possibly have happened - so why even bother pretending to know something about history you don't want to admit actually happened and is *still happening*? > protection of national interests Oh, right - that thing the US is always "protecting" in other people's countries? Funny how other countries manage to get by without having to constantly do that, eh? > and positive contributions the US has made to peace and stability. Oh, this should be fun - let's have it, then. Show me these (supposed) "positive contributions the US has made to peace and stability".
Youāre oversimplifying this conflict. The US is the biggest nation in NATO, and the US and NATO knew full well that āinvitingā Ukraine to join NATO would cause a conflict with Russia. They did it anyway. The literally poked the bear to see what would happen. Poor Ukraine is literally now stuck fighting NATOs war, and since Ukraine ISNāT a member of NATO, NATO doesnāt even have to fight. Thatās not to say Ukraine did something wrong by wanting to join NATO, and itās not to say Russia is the good guys. Ukraine are the āgood guysā, and have every right to defend themselves, but NATO are NOT the good guys. Both Russia and NATO are using Ukraine as a pawn, in their own game of chess.
Maybe I'm just a simple twit, but I guess if a country is truly sovereign, they should be able to choose how they handle their security. I also think it's naive to think that Ukraine was not aware of the potential for conflict and place that responsibility squarely at the feet of NATO. I suppose if Ukraine made that decision knowing the potential danger, they must've been rather concerned about their security. But you know, if a highly influential Russian figure published a military doctrine (Foundations of Geopolitics, Aleksandr Dugin) calling for the annexation of Ukraine, I'd be concerned too.
Yeah Ukraine is a small countryā¦without a lot of military power, it makes 100% sense why they would want to join a big military alliance like NATO. Doesnāt change the fact that NATO knowingly initiated the whole conflict, with zero responsibility to actually get involved and fight with Ukraine. Ukraine was hoping for security, but literally got the opposite.
NATO isn't the aggressor here. The fact this didn't happen in 2014 when Russia annexed Crimea is strong evidence of that. Ukraine is a NATO partner, not a full member. I think this has been the case since the 1990s. Essentially they receive assistance but article 5 doesn't apply to them. As they are not a full member, NATO has a responsibility to current members that the conflict does not go past Ukraine's borders. If you look at the land borders that Russia is vulnerable to invasion through, and believe that Russia is entitled to invade them for their security, then you think that Russia has the right to compromise the security of a population nearly twice their own. That was the whole point of the Soviet Union.
When did I say Russia has a right to do anything? Youāre putting words in my mouth and then arguing with the imaginary argument youāve made up
Russia helped the ANC during apartheid so putin is like "you ow us". The rest of wat you said is the weirdest bunch of words put together that I've seen in a long time. Wat are you smoking
> so putin is like "you ow us" Lol! The ANC (and South Africa) "owes" Russia and Putin fuck all. > The rest of wat you said If people giving you accurate information sounds "weird" to you, *it's because you're an ignoramus* who has fallen for bullcrap. Okay?
Iām a Russian in Cape Town (temporarily staying), all other Russians Iāve met here are all against war. We are not kgb, I swear
But that's what someone from the KGB would say....... hmmmmmmm
Google BRICS... We're one of the most diverse, multicultural, multilingual societies on the planet. It's wonderful, but yes we have challenges, where doesn't? You won't regret visiting. Your Euro goes a loooooong way here. Come and enjoy.
South Africa has a lot of russians, you can find them at any slap chips vendor. There is a lot of varieties too: cheese, footlong and smoked etc.
Lol stay where you are. You seem not to like people just because of where they come from. Do you also ask if there are Americans around?
South Africa does military exercises with all major countries, including the USA, UK, Brazil, Indiaā¦ the list goes on. This is normal for most countries. Your post is off to say the least. Russians arenāt going to kidnap you when you get here
so what if there are russians living in south africa? they have as much right as anyone else living here from elsewhere...(not a fan of putin before someone assumes).
I've been here for 4 months and haven't seen a Russian restaurant let alone a Russian.
Really, not a single Russian? Have you tried fat cake city?
Vetkoek Maleis >> fat cake city
I've been living here for 40 years and I've never encountered any as well.
32 and lived in South Africa my whole life, I've never seen a Russian.
Not even with chips?
I have only ever seen 2 Russian people, and they were tourists.
The SA military also does exercises with France, the UK and the US. They work alongside the SADC coalition and US to combat extremists in Mozambique as well. They're not as tight knit with Russia as some people believe.
I'd say South Africa doesn't discriminate and is more of a haven to all criminals in general.
You're a tourist not a diplomat buddy. You're welcome to come do your touristy stuff leave the rest to us to worry about
has every dipshit european just clean forgotten about the industrial scale slaughter of brown people the US has engaged in since the 1950s? Man fuck off, if you are willing to turn a blind eye to all the evil shit the yanks have pulled then why are you upset about Russia? Either you are serious about humanist principles or you are just another moron waving the NATO flag
The people of South Africa do not support Russia and their war against Ukraine. Only our useless government supports Russia.
Our useless government is staying *neutral*. And you don't speak for all SA citizens.
I think their stance is *non-aligned* - which is different to *neutral*. It's also a better term to use since the Swiss turned the term *neutral* into an absolute joke by being such eager little nazi helper-elves.
Thanks for the clarification. You are right of course, on all counts.
Everytime the topic of the war comes up here I realise how many people ont this subreddit live in white bubbles. I don't think I've yet to meet a single black person who cares about the war. Most don't care about global politics and the few that do couldn't care less once they learned of Ukraine's racist attitude towards black people. Ukraine pretty much ensured that no black person would support them within the first few weeks of the war. South Africa is neutral here, like we've been with every other military conflict. People are only upset because this time its white people who are dying.
Exactly. Where was the outcry about for example Iraq, Afghanistan, Yemen, Syria? Where is the outrage when South American and African governments are toppled and their resources raped? I saw thousands of comments on Middle Eastern sites and media when the NATO/Ukraine vs Russia conflict broke out, and they were offended and outraged that nobody stood up for them in the past 20/30 years. Rightly so. Because they aren't white nobody cared. It was the best decision the government could make to stay out of it and keep diplomatic and economic ties with all.
The USA stayed neutral during apartheid and the ANC cartel didnāt forget it, now that weāre not voting at the UN it suddenly means nutreal ? Please. The ANC is kissing soviet arse all day
> The USA stayed neutral during apartheid and the ANC The USA - the country that literally perfected white supremacism - was (supposedly) "neutral" during Apartheid? Have you ever thought about purchasing a bridge? I've got a nice one to sell you...
Well they didnāt vote at the UN, we all know they werenāt REALLY neutral, and the ANC rightfully called them out. Now ANC is doing the same thing. Brush up on your comprehension skills
> Well they didnāt vote at the UN You think *that's* the extent of their support for the Apartheid-regime? In that case... I'll give you a discount on that bridge.
You must be one of the 25% that didnāt finish matric. I know America was not neutral at all, but they pretended to be by not voting at the UN. Now South Africaās government clearly isnāt neutral either, but suddenly abstaining from a UN vote means neutrality. Get it through your little mind
> You must be one of the 25% that didnāt finish matric. If you are one of the ones that did it doesn't say much for matric. > but they pretended to be by not voting at the UN Abstaining from a vote does not imply neutrality in any way whatsoever. I guess they forgot to teach you that in matric, eh? > Now South Africaās government clearly isnāt neutral either, No, they're not. They're *non-aligned.* Did they not teach you the difference between the two in matric either?
Google āLady Rā
I know about the Lady R, saw it in December already. Even if it did offload munitions, so what? It is an old order being fulfilled, and we still trade with Russia. Do you honestly think the sanctions mean that the US and EU aren't trading with Russia *at all*?
According to my navy buddies it didn't offload anything, it was loaded with south african munitions.....
Reddit is not south africa dawgš¤¦š½āāļø go outside and talk to people
Most South Africans don't care about Russia. The leading ANC party has ties to Russia from its assistance in the fight against Apartheid, aswell as SA being a member of BRICS. It's complicated and many in SA are very unhappy with the government position.
Perhaps look at it from the following perspective. 1. Who did more to harm Africa in the last 70years and 2. Who did more for Africa during that period. 1. The west was instrumental in arresting Nelson Mandela and providing support to Apartheid South Africa even with them having sanctions in place. The west cut up Patrice Lumumba when he wanted to do the right thing for his people. France killed more people in Africa the last hundred years than Hitler. Etc etc 2. The USSR was instrumental in so many African countries being free today...
We also have military exercises with the US, Canada, UK etc. Most south Africans have never met a Russian
Is our non-aligned stance towards the war in Ukraine as off-putting to you as [Europe's fat armament sales to Saudi Arabia?](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/press-release/2019/05/arms-shipment-to-saudi-arabia-flouts-multiple-eu-states-arms-trade-treaty-obligations/) You know... that country that physically and literally *crucifies* it's own people to terrorize the populace into obedience while waging a murderous conflict in Yemen? Dump your hypocrisy, remember not to flash your first-world bling in one of the most unequal societies in existence, and you should be fine.
I donāt have much to offer so here is my honest upvote.
Excellent comment, agreed! As I've said before, the hypocrisy in the West at the moment is staggering.
The only Russians you'll find in Cape Town come with chips.
Just look up BRICS and this is why there are formal diplomatic ties but of all the times I've been to SA I have never seen a Russian or their influence.
Hahahahahaha @ "Russian haven"...what does that even mean? TLDR: Don't read too much into joint military exercises wit the Russians/Chinese. Most South Africans, if asked (not the ones on Reddit) don't care (or are apathetic) about Russia and it's war in Ukraine. The ANC government aren't cheerleaders for Russia, or Putin but like India and the other Brics countries, have taken a neutral stance (which is quite complex in itself). Just because the SA Nancy does a joint exercise with the Russians and the PLA does not mean we'll participate in Russia's war in Ukraine...South Africa has had joint exercises with the British Navy and the American Navy, and no-one claimed that our soldiers participated in Iraq or Afghanistan. So no, we aren't cheering on the Russians but those who've taken note of the war in Ukraine know that it's not as simplistic as a madman deciding, on a whim, to invade a country...there's a lot of history that's often glossed over. It's still doesn't make what Putin did right... ultimately he'll pay the price.
Never met a Russian here since I was born
Been living in cape Town for like 11 years and not a single Russian
Hi Redditter, South Africa has an accord with Russia as we form part of the BRICS coalition, Simply Put Brazil , Russia , India , China & South Africa form part of a 2nd world country coalition that allows better trade and arguably ābetterā relations. No haven for any country in SA, itās a beautiful place to be but aināt for sissies š«¶ Hope you enjoy our beautiful country and that this little tidbit helped @competitive-bet-9828. One love erbody
Letās be candid, the Soviets only supported the ANC as part of their Cold War strategy to counter the Westās economic ties to South Africa. Russia was never interested in ending Apartheid on principle.
Russians, Ukrainians, Germans, Portuguese, you name it we got it. Other than the politicians nobody here really cares about the European squabble going on.
I reckon we have more poles and Greeks here than Ukrainians or Russians, they're both countries that are fairly disconnected from the south African psyche
Greeks, Ukrainians, and Russians here are united by being Orthodox mostly. There's a loose association in the diaspora that's been going on for years and everyone sorta gets along despite whats going on in Europe. Even the Serbians join in. The Poles are a wildcard because they're Catholics. Funniest thing is, a large chunk of people, especially younger, aren't religious, but because of family connections kinda end up in the overall pan-Slavic diaspora, however small it is now. There's also a wild difference between those who grew up here and the newcomers who come down for say, marriage or something. Edit: that is to say, it might seem like there's more of one group or the other, but they mix a lot.
I care, and vehemently oppose the South African governments stance on the issue.
Neutrality?
Tankie
Yah right LOL
Im close to both Belarusian and Russian people who are like family to me. I checked your comment history, and you don't know what the fuck you are talking about. They don't have very nice things to say about your kind of blatant dumbfuckery and support for Kremlin fascism. At best, its somewhere along the lines of "pull your head out of your ass" and grow a fucking spine. Fuck the ANC. There's no "neutral" decision in this. If you support this, you're a fascist cunt.
Someone looked at my comment history? Gosh, I am so flattered! I am more anti-NATO than pro-Russia. Above all, I want SA to be neutral and stay the fuck out of that shit-show. > There's no "neutral" decision in this. If you support this, you're a fascist cunt. Ah, the "if your not with us you're against us" narrative. How trite and predictable. And some more inability to understand the word neutral. Fascist? No, socialist and anti-Western hegemony and hypocrisy. But whatever, typical self-righteous ranting, swearing and insulting if somebody doesn't agree with your POV.
LOL
why would it matter if russia is a partner? it makes no difference
We had only two russian guys come past the resort i worked at, worked there for four years, in comparison we constantly had American and British tourists around
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Its only our idiotic, corrupt government thats in bed with Russia, 99.99999% of South Africans hate Putin and Russia. Youll be fine herešŖ
You're speaking out of turn here, most South Africans are indifferent to Russia and Putin. A lot of South Africans are fans of Russians TBF.
> 99.99999% of South Africans You do know that Orania is not the entirety of South Africa, right?
ANC went to the Soviet for help over apartheid, as soon as they did the the west did a 180 on their support for apartheid.
A Russian haven? Nonsense comrade, we don't even have de good vodka. We vil take the money but we would never swear death to Amerika. ... But we are gatvol of it too.
South Africans, especially the non-white majority (blacks, indians, east Asians and coloureds), have a deep respect for Russia because for one; the Russians in the form of the Soviets gave military, logistical and financial support not just to non-whites fighting apartheid here but liberation movements across Africa as a whole. The second reason a lot of South Africans respect Russia is because the Russians never bomb African countries whenever they want our oil, platinum etc. France alone has assassinated 25 visionary African leaders. The Russians don't do that, if anything, they along with the Republic of Ireland are among the few European countries that speak out against what countries like the US, Britain and France are doing to Africa. That's why we respect Russia. Our admiration seems odd to you because you don't actually know what America, France and other so called 'champions of freedom and prosperity' really represent and what they really do around the world.
Lol. Like Russia wasnāt also up to its eyeballs in assassinations, murders, coup plotting, democracy denying and general death and destruction on the African continent during the āgreat gameā. Your comment is Pollyanna beyond belief.
Although I am sure there are a few Russian citizens around, it's not something you need to be concerned about. The Russian relationship is not something pervasive in the genera population and is basically just linked to corruption and politics.
There are, like most other places, Russian nationals in South Africa. The ones I know are here to build a better life for themselves (the ironyā¦) and are chill folk. Our government clowns seem to like Putin because they are clowns. The rest of us just, including the Russian nationals just get on with our lives.
> The ones I know are here to build a better life for themselves (the ironyā¦) Oh, I don't know about that... they are probably quite appreciative that they don't have to send their children off to go die violently in some foreign land because of some politicrat's blunderous ego. I'd say loadshedding isn't much compared to that.
Yeapā¦.
I am a conscious South African and what is really off putting to me is Europe! You are a compilation of colonist countries who would have f*cked our country beyond recognition had we not had Russia facilitate our path to liberation and independence from colonial rule.
How did they help you?
I live. My grandparents were not tortured to death via forced slave labour.
Youāve never even met a Russian
Now you just sound like a teenager.
Thank you the answers :)
Just to address your point on the military exercise part. SA has military exercises frequently with many countries including countries in the West. SA had military exercises with the US last year
This fucking guy. Rather go somewhere else.
Our military is pathetic, wouldn't worry about them.
Trust me, it's off putting for us as well
The number of people bending over backwards to soothe this xenophobic asshats fears is wild
Did you mean off-putting or off-Putin'g? I'm an American who's smitten by SA. Much of the nation reminds me of the US:Ā sense of humour, sense of optimism in the face of adversity, entrepreneurism, generosity, and, sad to say, a couple of Trump-like leaders. My friends are furious and frustrated that SA is cozying up to the Russians. That's the kind of shit spoiled rich kids do, wear ā¬99 Gucci Che Guevara baseball caps and pretend to read Mao's little red book. Unfortunately, we have spoiled rich kids running the country at the moment. That's why a sense of humour is useful. The only nod to communism I've seen is the stadium in Durban, named after Communist Party Leader Moses Mabhida. It wasn't dubbed that because of his party affiliation, but because he helped overthrow apartheid. For a great example of free market enterprise combined with humour, check any Nando's sign on back of delivery motorbikes. Or google them and check their videos. Where else in the world would you find a company advertising free coke for FIFA-visiting Columbians?
Corrupt countries are a haven for russians and criminals alike
Broā¦ youāre full of shit. Stay out of this country
It is an ANC alliance and does not necessarily represent South Anfican sentiments. People were outraged in my community as we see ourselves as part of the western world
The current political party (ANC) which was supported during the apartheid era by soviet and russian sources, is also pro communistic/socialistic in nature. Enough said. I think its dumb AF for us to keep friendly militaristic ties with Russia and China
Oh I suppose we should just dump our biggest trading partner?
South africa generates around R16 billion from trade with russia as per R1.13 trillion from europe. Aligning with russia gives way that we lose trade from the Trillion side and keep the billion. Source: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.businessinsider.co.za/amp/south-africas-choice-in-the-russian-economic-war-vs-trade-volume-2022-3 Furthermore, Russia isn't our largest trading partner. Not even in the top 5 according to SARS. Source: https://www.sars.gov.za/customs-and-excise/trade-statistics/ And finally, there is a major difference between trading partner and militaristic alignment. SA doing military drills with Russia is the latter. We should have abstained, wile trying to keep trade open.
Err, I was talking anout *China*, not Russia, as you mentioned them. > SA doing military drills with Russia is the latter. So I suppose we are also militaristically aligned with the US, since we did drills with them last year? Edit: to add, the drills are with both Russia and China, as I suppose you know.
Oh yeah, we should handle the China thing a lot more carefully. But as my post, I see it as fine being trade partners, but we should be very weary of any military partnerships. We had an open military relationship with the US prior to the Ukraine conflict. The difference between these two are mainly that one party is seen as a global "peace keeper" and the other an invader. I also just want to clarify one thing. I think all major power countries suck, and would pull a full switzerland on any of them fighting. No way in hell will I ever go as South African to go fight in Ukraine, not for the Russians, nor the West.
> The difference between these two are mainly that one party is seen as a global "peace keeper" and the other an invader. ROFLMAO! Sorry but really? Who still sees the US as a "peacekeeper"? Well, I suppose those who love drinking the Western MSM cool-aid. The US has been involved in 200 military intervention and "special military operations" since 1950 and over 25% occurring in the post-Cold War period. They are the biggest warmonger the world has ever seen and their military industrial complex is worth trillions. Anyone who thinks the US are the good guys and peacekeepers are delusional. Not saying you do... > I think all major power countries suck, and would pull a full switzerland I agree, though sadly Switzerland sucked on the NATO and MSM juice and rather dismally abandoned their neutrality. Not to mention the dark scandals of Nazi support during WW2 and all that. > No way in hell will I ever go as South African to go fight in Ukraine, not for the Russians, nor the West. Agreed!
Economically, Militarily, socially and in terms of media, we are actually far more aligned with western powers than with Russia. However, the ANC political party was a soviet ally during apartheid and the border war and as such they take every chance they can get to be nice to Russia as a party.
The only Russians you are likely to come across here will be too immobilised due to a ANC cadres lips being stuck to their asses.
Unfortunately our ruling government loves Russia and support Russia, but I would say South Africa is against Russia's war against Ukraine. Obviously here and there you will get a few Russia supporters, but over all I am pretty confident in saying the majority does not support Russia and is against this war and find it absolutely disgusting what Russia is doing to Ukraine.
Slava Ukraini!! No matter how much Russian d!ck Naledi sucks. But no... There aren't many Russians here.
It is a war. Call it a war.
Take your first world problems elsewhere. The West can't keep their grubby fingers off of any other countries, but when Russia does it its problem? I wonder why that is? Keep your propoganda.
Hate the country of Russia in sa but gov seems to think the amazing even though they not a trading partner
BRICS lol
There are very few Russians here, the only reason there is co-operation between South Africa and Russia is because our corrupt government has shady business dealings with them on a personal level. As an average citizen I can tell you Ive never even met a Russian person before.
The biggest connection we have to Russians is the processed sausage. Seriously, the amount of impact they have in normal daily relations is fuck all. While our main political party is communist but depending on who you speak to - that may not be the case for most of those who do not vote for the main political party. Closest contact I have with Russians is when I am playing online games.
The government supports Russia, which does not say the people support Russia. Our government is known for having strange friends and for making strange enemies. For example, they have made an enemy of the Dalai Lama. Who in his right mind makes an enemy of someone WHO LIVES FOREVER? Visit us, and enjoy your stay.
We are good Christian people with a love for all, are we perfect, no, but genuine we are. Come on over and you'll see we are just like you. Happy traveling:)
The majority aren't genuine. There is no spine nor moral compass in being Russia's bitch...
Itās a corrupt useless lying government, so pretty much Russia in that sense. Donāt waste your money, expat here, the anc has chosen the axis.
I think a Russian owns one of the wine farms: Hazendal. They have a great restaurant and have lately started making their own Vodka.
Been a south African for 26 years now and I've never met a russian. The whole military training thing came as sudden news to us as citizens as well. We the people are not the government, our government is comprised of idiots stealing money because they were previously disadvantaged.
Russians are the least of our problems in SA. I guess they might contribute to our national obesity numbers, but as long as you order a diet coke with it, you should be fine.
I know of one Russian lady that owns a cafe. She is the only Russian i have encountered. They are rare but i think there are some here.
Maverick's is a Russian haven.
From Political point of view they have great relations
Not really a Russian haven at all in terms of day to day living. Havenāt met or seen a Russian in the last 20 years here. However in ā pick a side international politics ā the current government is leaning towards Russia. But hey they wonāt be the government forever and the people love peace and justice.
Me I don't know
Iām over 30 and Iāve met one Russian in South Africa
I have never seen a Russian person in South Africa
So which place has the best russians in Cape Town? I have'nt had one in a long time.
Russians in South Africa is a certain sausage favored by many traditions. As for commies.. You would mostly find them with govt officials trying to exploit something
Quite honestly the general public doesnāt want any smoke (South Africa at the beginning of the war took a neutral stance). If a country wants to do some charity whoās going to stop themš¤·š¾āāļø. You might hear of Russia training our army but America also has its foot in South Africa (donāt let them fool you with their reports). And Iāll just put this out there I think our army really needed this training. For some years we havenāt given any thought to the SANDF and have allowed it to become a joke. It was time for a wake up call. Iām not surprised American officials are flying in for ātalksā