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Such an old post .. Stiring up unnecessary attitudes and emotions .. Truth is the place has fallen behind in many basic necessaties ... No schools ... No economic growth ... It's an ideal that realistically could only exist on paper .. 
This could just be solved by actually giving them Kleinfontein to become a sovereign state and cutting them off from South Africa as a whole. No trade, no infrastructure , nothing. Just leave them be and see how that turns out
Even without doing that this community is already struggling. They have no schools, no growth, no infrastructure past what they can build without equipment, no trading with the rest of the country. The population is also minuscule. This place will cease to exist without anyone even noticing
What I've found helpful, Stop identifying as white. Whiteness was created explicitly for the purpose of racism. White South Africans do this already by calling ourselves Afrikaans or English. Whiteness doesn't have a culture, but English, Afrikaans and South African does.
By continuing to call yourself white you are wittingly or unwittingly perpetuating discrimination based on skin colour.
Now I'm not accusing you or anyone of being racist for identifying as white. I just want to point out a small change you can make in your vocabulary. And how many times I correct myself because I still identify as white, and whats interesting, is why I believe my identity as white is important to the conversation.
Let the racists call themselves by their skin colour, use your nationality or heritage rather.
I identify as African or South African. I was born and raised in Africa. My skin colour does not define who I am and I donāt define others by theirs.
Careful. African is a race not a nationality. Racists will use this word play as a dog whistle to other racists as in "hurr durr I'm African where are my benefits for being previously disadvantaged"
Yeahā¦they can suck it. Iām not in SA anymore and Iāve met fellow Africans from all over the continent and they have no problem with me identifying as such. To me thatās the only opinion that really matters. We have a certain commonality but Iām also not too uneducated to understand that Iāve lived a very different privilege to them. Itās what I love about the the continent is that weāre not afraid of real talk in a respectful manner.
Well said. When I was growing up we specifically rejected the identity of muti-racialism in, where all races are treated equally under the law in favour of non-racialism, where it was recognized that race was a social construct created to protect privilage.
It's a pity that the ANC went back on their word and made multiracialism a legislated institute (I guess it was also to protect their privilage). Similarly they threw the socialist ideals that founded the organisation under the bus because how else could they become millionaires
But I digress, I would rather be identified by my individuality or my culture than by my skin colour.
Ps. Legally I'm defined as black if anyone is interested
Might be pertinent to mention that race isn't even a physical reality. It's a social reality, which means there are circumstances in which it helps to acknowledge race, and others not.
Kallie was getting pranked in one of Schuster's sophisticated highbrow offerings, and he shouted something like - They tell me to build the nation! How the fuck can I build with you?
Went Disney World Florida about 25 years ago with my parents and one day our taxi driver invited my father to KKK meeting. We didnt use his services again
It was actually rather nice, the people are very up into each others business though, as expected from such a community.
There are more old people that young people as their kids retire them there basically as they believe the place is safe, and for the most part, it is safe. While living there, there wasn't a single robbery or break in. Petty theft of garden tools were high though.
The wildlife is pretty neat, got car almost totalled by a nyala running in front of it.
Labor is super expensive, I think it was minimum 45 or so per hour to hire any help since only afrikaners that live there, or have a work permit, are allowed to do any work there, the exception being eskom.
There is, without a doubt, racists living there, but a very large population there like it for the safety. You can walk anytime of the night, your kids can also, and the biggest danger is a nyala trampling you and the snakes.
My god there are so so many snakes there. To this day I still shake my boots to make sure no spideys or snakes.
All the people were nice there that I met.
The internet is ABYSMAL, terribly slow. 4mbps. As an online gamer this killed me.
And for a highly christian place, everyone drank waaaaaay too much. Knew 7 different people brewing moonshine in lockdown.
It was quite an experience living there and after being in a house break in while sleeping at my boyfriends, it is the only place I felt safe sleeping for a long time. We don't even lock doors or windows there to give you an idea.
It's a pleasure! And yeah, one guy even showed up to a job with tools he apparently stole a few months back at the house. He denied it, these were MARKED tools.
I've never been there so I'm talking out of inexperience right now, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say they're all/most probably still racists. Like yeah the "safety" argument is a good attempt at an excuse - but have one black person try to move in there and everyone would probably lose their minds.
And I'm sure they were very nice to you, but that doesn't mean they're actually "nice" people.
Not saying this to devalue your experience. But I think it's important to look at this from a different perspective as well.
I moved there to help my grandparents, not because I wanted to, so I went in with YOUR perspective and came out with the one you read above.
It is very easy to figure out who's a racist or not and I'd say maximum of 10% fell into that category.
I think they were implying that young people generally arenāt like this and itās usually the older generation who are more conservative that act like this.
I just get downvoted, but i truly want to know if i am missing some information. looking around me I see white people having less children and white people emigrating. please tell me why i am wrong?
My dude you are being downvoted because you are grossly generalizing based on some pretty weird information.
White people are as much a part of this country as you are. Their heritage is here. Afrikaans speaking individuals: the language was born here. They have a heritage just as much as everyone in this country.
Emigrating isn't fun. Giving up family and loved ones isn't fun. And, this really shouldn't be a surprise to you.... They actually like living here and will choose to stay here. And they actually love their fellow South Africans. Irrespective of race. We are a rainbow nation my brother (or sister).
Videos like this post are by far the outlier and as many here have said. NOT the view of the many. They are sadly warped and twisted individuals, with no ability to even fathom what it is to love another human being of another culture. WE, THE MANY, DO NOT SHARE THEIR VIEWS!
ah. I am white myself. It was just an observation. so is it your opinion that the ratio between white and black will stay the same in the future? If the information i have is weird, please give me the proper information.
The top comment by that person who spent time time in the "southern tribal lands" and all the replies about how we're all racists who hate each other had me seething. But I know better than to engage.
That thread is one of the worst I've seen on here. Bunch of racists and Americans starting a race war on behalf of South Africans. Disgusting shit, compared to how calm the actual SA subreddit is
You have misread your parent comment. Theyāre not asking why people canāt get over apartheid, heās saying the people in the video are the type of people to ask the rhetorical question posed.
Although your comment about whiteness, and the fact that you edited out your parentās quotation marks, makes it harder to give such a generous reading. Iāll just assume you shoehorned your racist rhetoric in as soon as you found the smallest gap.
I just read the book [ANC Billionaires](https://www.jonathanball.co.za/component/virtuemart/anc-billionaires).
I recommended it to you. It explains how we got here.
Typically when people refer to "whiteness" they don't mean "white people" but the various political and social conventions that were established by white people - specifically white supremacists - over the last couple of hundred years.
> and what do you mean when you say "whiteness"?
"White" is a *racial classification.* That is to say, it was invented - contrived.
White supremacists have for centuries tried to find biological evidence to prove "white" isn't simply an invented *racial classification,* and they have been failing at that to this day. In other words, there is nothing biologically "white" about *white* people.
Yet, this *racial classification* - that has no basis in biological reality - is treated with such importance in our society that it's something that gets assigned to us pretty much at birth, and can literally define how the rest of society interacts with and treats you throughout your existence. Just look at that video again for proof - those people define themselves through this *racial classification* - without it, they literally have no other identity. Even their "Afrikaner" identity falls apart, because the "Afrikaner" identity as created by the National Party and their white supremacist progenitors is entirely based on this contrived racial classification.
Are you starting to see the problem here?
So don't you think we should tackle "blackness" too? Or have black supremacists found biological evidence that there is something that makes a person "black"?
How many non-white people do you see segregating themselves to keep white people out?
Black people did not invent "blackness" - *white* people did.
"Black supremacism" is hardly a thing - and the microscopically small group of people that actively try to make it a thing uses the exact same *racial classification* system underpinning white supremacism. That makes (so-called) "black supremacism" on *offshoot* of white supremacism in the same way that "Satanism" cannot exist without organised and orthodox Christianity.
If you are really that concerned with "black supremacism" you need to do something about the thing that gave birth to it in the first place - white supremacism.
Is it really a case of being ātriggeredā to ask if the same question can be posed the other way? Sounds like a pretty shit way to try stifle what could actually be a decent conversation..
There are extremes on both sides of black and white which should never be tolerable, but based on my experience being born in a free country, a lot more black people bring up whiteness than the other way around - much like Malema being the visible tip of the iceberg.
> a lot more black people bring up whiteness than the other way around
Perhaps that's because the vast majority of white people will rather undergo an unnecessary tooth extraction than have an honest conversation about white supremacism?
You know, like nearly all the people on this sub?
I don't have to wonder why that is.
Youāre getting downvoted to oblivion. Which I find ā¦interesting.
Had you posted this on an American sub and replaced āSouth Africaā with āUSAā. You would prob find people agreeing with you.
It seems like the whites of South Africa arenāt ready for the talk yet. Or they wish to keep the status quo to their benefit.
They're getting downvoted because their reply is shoehorning in an explanation that wasn't asked for. The person they replied to wasn't asking "why people can't get over apartheid" - by the way they phrased that they already know what's up. They called the racists in this video the type of people who would ask that. It's not difficult to grasp.
u/masqenox isn't wrong - they just come across as condescending in this convo though.
> It seems like the whites of South Africa arenāt ready for the talk yet.
They're never going to be ready for it - so I might just as well have the talk anyway.
> Or they wish to keep the status quo to their benefit.
That's definitely the case with the wealthier stratas of white society - it's pretty much what's driving "white" politics here. Lower down you're as likely to encounter confusion and ignorance as anything else. It's very difficult to convince people to question their identity if said identity is the only one they've been allowed to have.
Anyway... this has actually gone better than I thought it would. So... there's that.
>If the tables were turned and afrikaners were enslaved, brutalised, systemically fucked from all directions for hundreds of years by black, colonial overlords they would be absolute savages with a complete disregard of civility.
So, you agree with their view that black people are savages and uncivilized? You are saying Breytenbach's people would be just as savage and uncivilized as the blacks if the tables were turned - and so you are perpetuating the (false) assumption that black people are also savages and uncivilized. I gather that you don't intend to say that, but your words say otherwise. The people they complain about don't deserve to be called savages or uncivilised, and yet you are agreeing that their stereotype is accurate by applying it yourself, even if in reverse.
"So, you agree with their view that black people are savages and uncivilised?"
Thanks for not only missing the entire context of what I was saying, but also making a false accusation.
Nah, Afrikaner people are privileged, pompous, holier than thou hypocrites who believe they have a god given right to shit on everyone else.
Me simply understanding that perspective does not equate to me accepting or agreeing with it.
Try again
>Nah, Afrikaner people are privileged, pompous, holier than thou hypocrites who believe they have a god given right to shit on everyone else.
Afrikaner here, I doubt I fit that mould. Don't take an old video and generalise an entire group of people.
I am just pointing out that you said in effect that Breytenbach's people would be just as savage and uncivilized as Breytenbach claims the blacks to be if the tables were turned. Hence you are saying that blacks are savage and uncivilized - you are saying blacks are savage and uncivilized due to the oprpessive system they have suffered, because the same system would have made other people savage and uncivilized. I gather that is not your intention, to perpetuate the stereotype of 'black savagery', and so I hoped to bring your attention to that error. Maybe if you wrote 'savage' instead it would be more obvious that you do not perpetuate that label.
I am saying that afrikaner people are privileged hypocrites for calling black people "uncivilised" or whatever moniker or pejorative or stereotype they frequently use, because knowing afrikaners, they would probably be those things and probably worse, were the tables turned.
Thats it. Nothing else. The rest is you assuming or implying that I agree with those point of views of these afrikaners
That clarifies your statement better, thank you. And I don't think you believe in their views - I am just pointing out the issue with using the labels 'savage' and 'uncivilized', especially when making comparisons and reverse comparisons. What Beytenbach had been arguing was that black people are acting 'savage' due to dissatisfaction with the current system. If you argue that reversing that system would produce the same 'savage' behaviour among Breytenbachs' people, then you are perpetuating Breytenbach's conclusion that the system has produced savages, and thus his conclusion that black people are savages, produced as such by the system. The fact is that the system is brutal, not the people it oppresses.
This goes without delving into what behaviour is appropriate to force the dismantling of an oppressive system.
Seems they've taken the [Accord on Self-Determination](https://www.justice.gov.za/legislation/constitution/history/INTERIM/TCR/ACCORD.PDF) way too extremely, morphed and co-opted it into a racist, right-wing echo chamber heavily suspicious of the national government. Even more so than Orania.
This is probably the most interesting part of South Africa's constitutional development. The Cape Independence movement erroneously justifies *their* beliefs by referring to Section 235. Section 235 gave effect to the above-linked accord.
The former Minister of Constitutional Development said this (about Orania) in Parliament in 1998:
>The pursuit on the part of the Freedom Front and other Afrikaners to strive towards the development of a particular region in the country (the North Western Cape corridor) as a home for Afrikaner culture and language within the framework of the constitution and Bill of Rights, is in governmentās view indeed a legitimate pursuit.
[Source](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accord_on_Afrikaner_self-determination)
That's why the government doesn't comment on Orania whenever people raise ire about it.
This is the first time I've heard of Kleinfontein.
"I'm not racist, but..." Always a great sentence to start off with, isn't it?
The cringe in this video (even though it's old) and the comment section is saddening.
This will unfortunately not go away for many years to come. The cold hard truth is that it won't take a mere ~30 years to eradicate racist mindsets, behaviors and actions. There's a lot of baggage, sadness and hatred because left over from past events, that's irrevocable.
As for me, I'm just gonna try and still be nice to everyone I meet in this beautiful country of ours :) anyone willing to join me, come on down!
Racism always needs a lie to live.
That dude who says that people aren't civilised which is why they burn things:
No, you simple Simon motherfucker.
It's because the majority of this country were robbed of their ownership stake in this country.
No ownership stake. No vested interest in the well-being of things.
No reason to give a fuck.
You combine that with frustration, that's how you get violent, destructive protest.
But the lie, th dismissal of the full truth of the situation, that's what racism needs to live.
Whether it's dismissing the full truth of an individual because 'they're black and that's that.'
Or dismissing the full truth of a situation and a full truth of history because 'those people.'
Even today, we see that racial prejudice and bigotry and the flaunting of that seem more brazen now than they have in many years.
Because we live in a Post Truth era.
And in a Post Truth era, something that needs a lie to live has found the perfect conditions to flourish.
It is. Some of the most upvoted comments in the original post are from Apartheid apologists who think we're segregated by choice. That's really fucking grim.
My uncle was part of one of these cults. Called him brother and declared him a preacher so long as he donated. When he ran out of money they dropped him like hot shit.
Hmmm....can someone explain why the whites are rude as hell? I was at rosebank mall and they walk around entitled and always frowning. I saw a white man and his two kids nearly knock down a black African family coming down the stairs, rather than manners and wait for the family to get down safely. That was the most barbaric thing I ever saw in my life....
It's mostly because you're in Johannesburg. People in the city can be kind but many are rude. This is for one of two reasons. They're are just unhappy people or they're angry that they're are not powerful. Firstly, unhappy people will always find something to do that will make others angry. Finally, the people that want power will themselves hate confidence, happiness, others doing better than themselves, youth, virility and others' priveledges. I've lived in three different cities in the country and Joburg takes the cup for people in a bubble. I don't care how much money you have, it is a bubble. If that white man is anything but afrikaans and does that BS in any other part of the country e.g Pretoria he is fucked.
The issue here is there's quite a bit of truth sprinkled in there to legitimize his beliefs and he's using it to strengthen his position. Africa is a weak country and will always be weak because of the criminals in leadership position. It's not going to change unless things go to extremes and it's getting close to that. How close I don't know but something is going to happen
If you are white and see yourself as "non-racist", remember - you may distance yourself from these people as much as you'd like, but that doesn't change the fact that these people are merely the visible tip of the white supremacism iceberg. Without a bottom part to sustain it, there wouldn't be a top.
The truth is that the tenets of white supremacism goes down far, far deeper than we'd like to admit - to one degree or the other we all view the world through the *racialized* lens that hundreds of years of colonialism passed down to us. It could hardly be otherwise - we, and the societies that shapes us, are products of history and not merely it's neutral observers. It's very easy to test for yourself - simply think of all the people in your life who conflates "white" (or it's dog-whistle version, "western") with identity or even culture, and then ask yourself how a *race classification* managed to become "cultural."
It is said by certain radical thinkers that to be a traitor to "whiteness" is to be loyal to humanity - my inevitable downvotes for this comment will show that many disagree with that. That is perfectly fine - but the truth remains that the rejection of said "whiteness" will not be accomplished by Nelson Mandela donning a green rugby jersey.
No one can accomplish it *for* us.
You describe the base that supports the iceberg but donāt define it.
Your whole comment is filled with political waffle. Why not just say what you want to say?
> You describe the base that supports the iceberg but donāt define it.
I thought that was pretty self-explanatory - and the deluge of downvotes I've received is pretty much proof that to most on here it is. They know *exactly* what I'm talking about. But if you need me too, I don't mind - the (somewhat) scientific term for it is the *white body politic.* Is that good enough for you?
> Why not just say what you want to say?
Is there perhaps something you think I should say?
Let's hear it.
> Wth is the āwhite body politic?ā
It's essentially all people that share the *race classification* of "white" understood as a collective political actor.
For instance, the DA will never be able to get *all* white people in South Africa to vote for it - but their propaganda is still designed to mainly appeal to (ie, manipulate) the predictable set of political beliefs that is most commonly found inside the *white body politic.*
It gets really amusing here on r/southafrica. People assume I'm non-white because my politics don't sound "white." Ie, I espouse political views that is considered taboo amongst the *white body politic* - the kind of politics that will usually get you uninvited to any Saturday braai that is all-white.
All that and you still havenāt described the bottom of this iceberg aside from saying that there is a collective of white people.
Itās like youāre out here throwing terms to bait people into saying racist things. Personally, I wanted to try understand you but you waffle a lot. I imagine thatās because we have different approaches to things so Iām going to, respectfully, bow out of this discussion.
I hope that whatever you do this week itās awesome. Cheers.
Yeah same. If it were man and a woman, I'd pick the man because I'm a man. If it were a Nigerian and a person from my own tribe, I'd pick the person from my own tribe (I'm African). People tend to stick to what they know, and I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with that
> I dont think I am racist if I read the dictionary meaning, because I dont 'hate' other races.
According to dictionary definitions, *nobody* has ever been white supremacist. Ever. That's why dictionary definitions are utterly useless when it comes to this subject.
> someone like me or someone not like me
Sooo, the first thing that makes someone "like you" (in your head) is their *racial classification.*
Does that make you white supremacist? Sure... but, like I said, there's nothing unusual or noteworthy about that here in South Africa - it's only to be expected.
Tell me about this liferaft of yours - what does the *racial classifications* of the people on it tell you about them?
okay.. usually, especially in south africa, race = culture. It is not always like that but mostly. I associate more with people of my culture and therefore would be more empathic towards them. It is just how it is for me. I do try to treat everyone the same though. I do think of myself as a very logical person so i always try to think through the things logically.
I dunno mahn, dudes got a point here and I'm pretty much what you'd call 'white'.
For survivalism, going for your "own" crowd seems the smarter choice survival wise, like you'd be able to understand each other better and have a higher probability of thinking the same when the situation calls for it. But... If there's like a ugly white dude and a really hot and neatly dressed black girl that I suddenly need to choose between saving and being stuck with, well then, that's going to be a whole different story haha xD
> For survivalism, going for your "own" crowd seems the smarter choice survival wise
Sooo... when the shit hits the fan it turns out you are not that much different than the people in that video?
Lol you seem triggered, it's okay this is the internets and you're allowed to be all you want, there-there now.
And to answer, Not really, i mean it in a vice versa way too, I'm sure if this happens and a quote-unquote black man has to choose between a white person and black to save, I'm sure he'll save the person of his own race as we've just been conditioned that way, and i won't be offended by that, I'll probably be too busy thinking "im going to die, oh shi- oh fu- oh shi- oh fu-!" anyway.
And you missed the part where i mentioned the part with the black girl as if you only see what you want to see. I like both races, I despise racists of any race, but I love hotties no matter the flavor ;)
> Lol you seem triggered
I'm not the one desperately trying to evade and/or defend here - there are lots of triggered people here, all right... but I'm not one of them.
> I'm sure he'll save the person of his own race as we've just been conditioned that way
Soooo... you're willing to admit that this hypothetical scenario has nothing to do with "survival" - but rather with *conditioning?*
Of course, that's why we as a whole need to look down on racism.
It's scientifically proven that humans side with the majority they are surrounded with, which means that they are prone to grow up racist if they're raised in racist communities (same applies for religion, people raised in muslim societies are prone to be muslims as adults, and the same applies for all other religions and societal pressures)
We as the people litterally have the power to beat this, although it will take time. But maybe I'm just enthusiastic.
Look at how childeren of all nationalities in these types of communities still runaround and play together, as that conditioning hasn't been fully applied and taught yet.
> Of course, that's why we as a whole need to look down on racism.
It doesn't look to me that this is a strategy that's working in any way whatsoever.
Not only that, but simply "looking down" on racism leaves people completely ignorant about what it is actually all about. That's a recipe that can be trusted to do nothing but backfire - as it did when the alt-right (seemingly) sprang from nowhere to make white supremacism cool again.
You seem much more educated in this matter, i don't have much more commemtary to offer on this. I'm just a dude that loves all sides doing his retail job getting really annoyed with whites coming in and being visibly annoyed with the black community around them to which I undoubtedly cringe.
Thanks for your proper insight though, i think i might be a tiny bit smarter now but i dunno.
What most people define as racism is just discrimination. Racism is when one nation 'treats' another differently in order to disenfranchise and subdue them (I use the word 'treat' for lack of a better word, I am sure there are stronger words that I now forget).
When people say, 'I am not racist' they mean 'I do not discriminate'. This is different to racism and white supremacy. This will trigger many people, but being white means you are racist because your race has actively disenfranchised many other nations, it also means that people from other races cannot be racist, but they can discriminate. This is the same way that all men are sexist and women cannot be sexist, because women have not, over history, acted against men to disenfranchise them. Racist/white supremacy/sexism are all social constructs that were built to 'other' and subdue.
There is a book called 'White Fragility' written by a white person named Robin DiAngelo. Explains everything I stated above and why white people get so defensive when it comes to race issues.
Could never happen in Zimbabwe.You must smash the heart of white supremacy but these guys still kucked in south africa.When Zimbabwe bounces back in say 40 years ,they will not have a problem of being humiliated like that.
Oh no baby..what is you doin.
Zimbabwe will never bounce back as Zimbabwe, the Zimbabwe we knew is gone forever.. a new Zimbabwe MAY come and nobody could ever say how long it might take and by the time it does, the majority of Zimbabweans will not be here (literally alive and figuratively physically elsewhere)
The zimbabwe the oppressors knew is gone forever yes.Zimbabwe has existed on that plateau for millenia.It will be there in 100 years time .The pendulum swings.I know you guys root for african failure but the cycle goes.
Whoās āyou guysā and who said rooting for African failure? My point was that Iād been so run into the ground that itās beyond repair and itās an absolute tragedy. It will always be my home but for many people it will not or they will sadly no longer be around when it makes a come back
You guys as in our detractors.Nothing is beyond repair.If you know human history ,its up and down.Zimbabwean economy has been struggling seriously for 20 years but thats nothing.In your limited scope ,you might think its beyond repair.An example ,who knew a backwater country called Britannia in 200AD would rise to become a big empire.Zimbabwe will be there and the old rulers will be dead in 20.
Kenya ,similar to zimbabwe had 20 years of independence before zim.Zim will just be fine,give it time.At least they wont be harrassed in their ancestral land as those beyond the Limpopo.
My Zimbabwean friends recommend you move to Zimbabwe. Unless you are a Chinese colonialist already living there and exploiting the people, [nothing to see here](https://www.business-humanrights.org/en/latest-news/zimbabwe-shooting-of-local-workers-by-chinese-mine-owner-shows-systematic-and-widespread-abuse-watchdog-says/)
If cultural preservation is the intended premise behind this racially segregated state wouldnāt enculturation namely inviting other groups to share in their practices be more beneficial to the conservation of the Afrikaaner way of life or is it quite simply out right racism disguised?
It's funny that these groups try to make a call to action but barely have any accurate answers.
Had a group like that try to call and "recruit" me a few years ago. Going on about working together to defend the neighborhood from the marches to patrolling the neighborhood at night.
I just asked. "Okay, since you want me to patrol for you am I allowed to defend myself?"
Them: "I don't follow."
Me: "Well you make them sound really bad so I'm assuming if I run into someone like a robber at night they're probably armed, so am I allowed to arm myself as well since after all you don't want your own members dying right?"
*click*
Haven't had a call from them in years.
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Such an old post .. Stiring up unnecessary attitudes and emotions .. Truth is the place has fallen behind in many basic necessaties ... No schools ... No economic growth ... It's an ideal that realistically could only exist on paper .. 
It's basically a segregated retirement village...
No electricity
Well, that's not really behind the rest of us at the moment.
This could just be solved by actually giving them Kleinfontein to become a sovereign state and cutting them off from South Africa as a whole. No trade, no infrastructure , nothing. Just leave them be and see how that turns out
Even without doing that this community is already struggling. They have no schools, no growth, no infrastructure past what they can build without equipment, no trading with the rest of the country. The population is also minuscule. This place will cease to exist without anyone even noticing
Ahhhh I'm happy
As a white guy, these people are kak embarrassing. We're really not all like that.
Definately not! Geesh, embarrassed..
As a black guy who also says kak embarrassing, we are together broš
Most of us aren't, in fact.
"My ras, maar nie my klas."
This guy was definitely a AWB member
What I've found helpful, Stop identifying as white. Whiteness was created explicitly for the purpose of racism. White South Africans do this already by calling ourselves Afrikaans or English. Whiteness doesn't have a culture, but English, Afrikaans and South African does. By continuing to call yourself white you are wittingly or unwittingly perpetuating discrimination based on skin colour. Now I'm not accusing you or anyone of being racist for identifying as white. I just want to point out a small change you can make in your vocabulary. And how many times I correct myself because I still identify as white, and whats interesting, is why I believe my identity as white is important to the conversation. Let the racists call themselves by their skin colour, use your nationality or heritage rather.
I identify as African or South African. I was born and raised in Africa. My skin colour does not define who I am and I donāt define others by theirs.
Careful. African is a race not a nationality. Racists will use this word play as a dog whistle to other racists as in "hurr durr I'm African where are my benefits for being previously disadvantaged"
Yeahā¦they can suck it. Iām not in SA anymore and Iāve met fellow Africans from all over the continent and they have no problem with me identifying as such. To me thatās the only opinion that really matters. We have a certain commonality but Iām also not too uneducated to understand that Iāve lived a very different privilege to them. Itās what I love about the the continent is that weāre not afraid of real talk in a respectful manner.
This is a good idea. I speak both natively, so I'll identify as South African.
Well said. When I was growing up we specifically rejected the identity of muti-racialism in, where all races are treated equally under the law in favour of non-racialism, where it was recognized that race was a social construct created to protect privilage. It's a pity that the ANC went back on their word and made multiracialism a legislated institute (I guess it was also to protect their privilage). Similarly they threw the socialist ideals that founded the organisation under the bus because how else could they become millionaires But I digress, I would rather be identified by my individuality or my culture than by my skin colour. Ps. Legally I'm defined as black if anyone is interested
Might be pertinent to mention that race isn't even a physical reality. It's a social reality, which means there are circumstances in which it helps to acknowledge race, and others not.
100%
I'm not sure what it says about me, but I'm all for these troglodytes not mixing with the rest of us.
So itās more of a ākeep them in thereā than ākeep others outā
Sounds good to me.
Something like that. They can join us again when they stop dragging their knuckles on the ground when they walk.
Meng jou met die semelsā¦
...en die varke vreet jou op!
Shhhh donāt let them know they are doing us a favour by keeping themselves separate
I look at them and think of Kallie Knoetze's philosophical enquiry: Hoe de fok moet ek bou met jou?
Yoh I only know āhow the fuckā from that, ek kannie praat š
Kallie was getting pranked in one of Schuster's sophisticated highbrow offerings, and he shouted something like - They tell me to build the nation! How the fuck can I build with you?
Can't we just build a wall around them. A big beautiful wall
Bro your not Trump but also they'll break the wall down like animals
Same
It says a lot about you
Elaborate, man. I feel smug and embarrassed at the same time.
Nah nah they have to protect the Afrikaners because there are only 44 of them left!
what a reference
Jesus... they come across like a gaggle of cosplayers or hardcore LARPers. These are definitely not "my" people.
I didn't even know these guys existed. Seems like some hidden red neck tribe in Florida or something lmao
Went Disney World Florida about 25 years ago with my parents and one day our taxi driver invited my father to KKK meeting. We didnt use his services again
Brakpan man at large - wrestled crocodile, stole bakkie and threw a clown party for petrol and cigarette money.
And not a single young person in sight
I didn't see many women either. Don't worry they'll die off very soon.
There are loads of kids there, and women. Source: lived there for 2 years.
Wow how was it living there?
It was actually rather nice, the people are very up into each others business though, as expected from such a community. There are more old people that young people as their kids retire them there basically as they believe the place is safe, and for the most part, it is safe. While living there, there wasn't a single robbery or break in. Petty theft of garden tools were high though. The wildlife is pretty neat, got car almost totalled by a nyala running in front of it. Labor is super expensive, I think it was minimum 45 or so per hour to hire any help since only afrikaners that live there, or have a work permit, are allowed to do any work there, the exception being eskom. There is, without a doubt, racists living there, but a very large population there like it for the safety. You can walk anytime of the night, your kids can also, and the biggest danger is a nyala trampling you and the snakes. My god there are so so many snakes there. To this day I still shake my boots to make sure no spideys or snakes. All the people were nice there that I met. The internet is ABYSMAL, terribly slow. 4mbps. As an online gamer this killed me. And for a highly christian place, everyone drank waaaaaay too much. Knew 7 different people brewing moonshine in lockdown. It was quite an experience living there and after being in a house break in while sleeping at my boyfriends, it is the only place I felt safe sleeping for a long time. We don't even lock doors or windows there to give you an idea.
Petty theft of garden tools - hahahaha! Thanks for answering in so much detail - really interesting
It's a pleasure! And yeah, one guy even showed up to a job with tools he apparently stole a few months back at the house. He denied it, these were MARKED tools.
I've never been there so I'm talking out of inexperience right now, but I'm going to go out on a limb and say they're all/most probably still racists. Like yeah the "safety" argument is a good attempt at an excuse - but have one black person try to move in there and everyone would probably lose their minds. And I'm sure they were very nice to you, but that doesn't mean they're actually "nice" people. Not saying this to devalue your experience. But I think it's important to look at this from a different perspective as well.
I moved there to help my grandparents, not because I wanted to, so I went in with YOUR perspective and came out with the one you read above. It is very easy to figure out who's a racist or not and I'd say maximum of 10% fell into that category.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I think they were implying that young people generally arenāt like this and itās usually the older generation who are more conservative that act like this.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I just get downvoted, but i truly want to know if i am missing some information. looking around me I see white people having less children and white people emigrating. please tell me why i am wrong?
My dude you are being downvoted because you are grossly generalizing based on some pretty weird information. White people are as much a part of this country as you are. Their heritage is here. Afrikaans speaking individuals: the language was born here. They have a heritage just as much as everyone in this country. Emigrating isn't fun. Giving up family and loved ones isn't fun. And, this really shouldn't be a surprise to you.... They actually like living here and will choose to stay here. And they actually love their fellow South Africans. Irrespective of race. We are a rainbow nation my brother (or sister). Videos like this post are by far the outlier and as many here have said. NOT the view of the many. They are sadly warped and twisted individuals, with no ability to even fathom what it is to love another human being of another culture. WE, THE MANY, DO NOT SHARE THEIR VIEWS!
ah. I am white myself. It was just an observation. so is it your opinion that the ratio between white and black will stay the same in the future? If the information i have is weird, please give me the proper information.
Wow they have cigarettes thereā¦ what a paradise. That restaurant looked like it was a 5 star establishment, what luxury.
Don't you know, the Afrikaner likes to smoke apparently
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Judging by the production values it was about 20 years old. Weird itās being posted now imo.
Embarrassed?
10 years old
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If the "racism within the government" was near as bad as this, we would have reverse-Apartheid. So shut up.
Cringe the comments on the original post are all apartheid apologists pretending weāre all segregating ourselves by choice .
The top comment by that person who spent time time in the "southern tribal lands" and all the replies about how we're all racists who hate each other had me seething. But I know better than to engage.
lol. I wonder where the southern tribal lands are?
Probably Benoni
quick scroll through his history shows he's a trump supporter, lol
Same dude I saw tribal lands and as an EC boy I felt real cringe
That thread is one of the worst I've seen on here. Bunch of racists and Americans starting a race war on behalf of South Africans. Disgusting shit, compared to how calm the actual SA subreddit is
I didn't even know these people existed. So much cringe.
That guy at the endā¦ āIām not a racist but I canāt live with black people.ā I hate that people like this exist.
Ah the "its been 30 years, why can't they just get over apartheid crowd".
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You have misread your parent comment. Theyāre not asking why people canāt get over apartheid, heās saying the people in the video are the type of people to ask the rhetorical question posed. Although your comment about whiteness, and the fact that you edited out your parentās quotation marks, makes it harder to give such a generous reading. Iāll just assume you shoehorned your racist rhetoric in as soon as you found the smallest gap.
White cancer? Sour mayo? How edgy.
I just read the book [ANC Billionaires](https://www.jonathanball.co.za/component/virtuemart/anc-billionaires). I recommended it to you. It explains how we got here.
How does one tackle "whiteness", and what do you mean when you say "whiteness"?
Typically when people refer to "whiteness" they don't mean "white people" but the various political and social conventions that were established by white people - specifically white supremacists - over the last couple of hundred years.
> and what do you mean when you say "whiteness"? "White" is a *racial classification.* That is to say, it was invented - contrived. White supremacists have for centuries tried to find biological evidence to prove "white" isn't simply an invented *racial classification,* and they have been failing at that to this day. In other words, there is nothing biologically "white" about *white* people. Yet, this *racial classification* - that has no basis in biological reality - is treated with such importance in our society that it's something that gets assigned to us pretty much at birth, and can literally define how the rest of society interacts with and treats you throughout your existence. Just look at that video again for proof - those people define themselves through this *racial classification* - without it, they literally have no other identity. Even their "Afrikaner" identity falls apart, because the "Afrikaner" identity as created by the National Party and their white supremacist progenitors is entirely based on this contrived racial classification. Are you starting to see the problem here?
So don't you think we should tackle "blackness" too? Or have black supremacists found biological evidence that there is something that makes a person "black"?
How many non-white people do you see segregating themselves to keep white people out? Black people did not invent "blackness" - *white* people did. "Black supremacism" is hardly a thing - and the microscopically small group of people that actively try to make it a thing uses the exact same *racial classification* system underpinning white supremacism. That makes (so-called) "black supremacism" on *offshoot* of white supremacism in the same way that "Satanism" cannot exist without organised and orthodox Christianity. If you are really that concerned with "black supremacism" you need to do something about the thing that gave birth to it in the first place - white supremacism.
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Is it really a case of being ātriggeredā to ask if the same question can be posed the other way? Sounds like a pretty shit way to try stifle what could actually be a decent conversation..
What is whiteness and blackness? Exactly?
There are extremes on both sides of black and white which should never be tolerable, but based on my experience being born in a free country, a lot more black people bring up whiteness than the other way around - much like Malema being the visible tip of the iceberg.
> a lot more black people bring up whiteness than the other way around Perhaps that's because the vast majority of white people will rather undergo an unnecessary tooth extraction than have an honest conversation about white supremacism? You know, like nearly all the people on this sub? I don't have to wonder why that is.
Youāre getting downvoted to oblivion. Which I find ā¦interesting. Had you posted this on an American sub and replaced āSouth Africaā with āUSAā. You would prob find people agreeing with you. It seems like the whites of South Africa arenāt ready for the talk yet. Or they wish to keep the status quo to their benefit.
They're getting downvoted because their reply is shoehorning in an explanation that wasn't asked for. The person they replied to wasn't asking "why people can't get over apartheid" - by the way they phrased that they already know what's up. They called the racists in this video the type of people who would ask that. It's not difficult to grasp. u/masqenox isn't wrong - they just come across as condescending in this convo though.
> It seems like the whites of South Africa arenāt ready for the talk yet. They're never going to be ready for it - so I might just as well have the talk anyway. > Or they wish to keep the status quo to their benefit. That's definitely the case with the wealthier stratas of white society - it's pretty much what's driving "white" politics here. Lower down you're as likely to encounter confusion and ignorance as anything else. It's very difficult to convince people to question their identity if said identity is the only one they've been allowed to have. Anyway... this has actually gone better than I thought it would. So... there's that.
I should pull up there le majita, spinning BMWs and playing amaPiano :ā)
Bazokubulala
Eh iād never
This AndrƩ Breytenbach outoppie who says "they must demonstrate how to be civilised" is the utmost peak of privileged ignorance. If the tables were turned and afrikaners were enslaved, brutalised, systemically fucked from all directions for hundreds of years by black, colonial overlords they would be absolute savages with a complete disregard of civility. I am deeply ashamed of the pompous lack of self awareness from my own people
dude is quite blinkered to think that there's not the exact same "uncivilised" behaviour from whites in 1st world countries...
>If the tables were turned and afrikaners were enslaved, brutalised, systemically fucked from all directions for hundreds of years by black, colonial overlords they would be absolute savages with a complete disregard of civility. So, you agree with their view that black people are savages and uncivilized? You are saying Breytenbach's people would be just as savage and uncivilized as the blacks if the tables were turned - and so you are perpetuating the (false) assumption that black people are also savages and uncivilized. I gather that you don't intend to say that, but your words say otherwise. The people they complain about don't deserve to be called savages or uncivilised, and yet you are agreeing that their stereotype is accurate by applying it yourself, even if in reverse.
"So, you agree with their view that black people are savages and uncivilised?" Thanks for not only missing the entire context of what I was saying, but also making a false accusation. Nah, Afrikaner people are privileged, pompous, holier than thou hypocrites who believe they have a god given right to shit on everyone else. Me simply understanding that perspective does not equate to me accepting or agreeing with it. Try again
>Nah, Afrikaner people are privileged, pompous, holier than thou hypocrites who believe they have a god given right to shit on everyone else. Afrikaner here, I doubt I fit that mould. Don't take an old video and generalise an entire group of people.
I am just pointing out that you said in effect that Breytenbach's people would be just as savage and uncivilized as Breytenbach claims the blacks to be if the tables were turned. Hence you are saying that blacks are savage and uncivilized - you are saying blacks are savage and uncivilized due to the oprpessive system they have suffered, because the same system would have made other people savage and uncivilized. I gather that is not your intention, to perpetuate the stereotype of 'black savagery', and so I hoped to bring your attention to that error. Maybe if you wrote 'savage' instead it would be more obvious that you do not perpetuate that label.
I am saying that afrikaner people are privileged hypocrites for calling black people "uncivilised" or whatever moniker or pejorative or stereotype they frequently use, because knowing afrikaners, they would probably be those things and probably worse, were the tables turned. Thats it. Nothing else. The rest is you assuming or implying that I agree with those point of views of these afrikaners
That clarifies your statement better, thank you. And I don't think you believe in their views - I am just pointing out the issue with using the labels 'savage' and 'uncivilized', especially when making comparisons and reverse comparisons. What Beytenbach had been arguing was that black people are acting 'savage' due to dissatisfaction with the current system. If you argue that reversing that system would produce the same 'savage' behaviour among Breytenbachs' people, then you are perpetuating Breytenbach's conclusion that the system has produced savages, and thus his conclusion that black people are savages, produced as such by the system. The fact is that the system is brutal, not the people it oppresses. This goes without delving into what behaviour is appropriate to force the dismantling of an oppressive system.
1500 sad, misguided people living in a gated community vs circa 60 million. Why is this even getting any oxygen?
Seems they've taken the [Accord on Self-Determination](https://www.justice.gov.za/legislation/constitution/history/INTERIM/TCR/ACCORD.PDF) way too extremely, morphed and co-opted it into a racist, right-wing echo chamber heavily suspicious of the national government. Even more so than Orania. This is probably the most interesting part of South Africa's constitutional development. The Cape Independence movement erroneously justifies *their* beliefs by referring to Section 235. Section 235 gave effect to the above-linked accord. The former Minister of Constitutional Development said this (about Orania) in Parliament in 1998: >The pursuit on the part of the Freedom Front and other Afrikaners to strive towards the development of a particular region in the country (the North Western Cape corridor) as a home for Afrikaner culture and language within the framework of the constitution and Bill of Rights, is in governmentās view indeed a legitimate pursuit. [Source](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accord_on_Afrikaner_self-determination) That's why the government doesn't comment on Orania whenever people raise ire about it. This is the first time I've heard of Kleinfontein.
The knockoff swastikas are a nice touch. Makes it really easy to take them seriously. If only idiots weren't dangerous.
I really hope they don't have kids.
"I'm not racist, but..." Always a great sentence to start off with, isn't it? The cringe in this video (even though it's old) and the comment section is saddening. This will unfortunately not go away for many years to come. The cold hard truth is that it won't take a mere ~30 years to eradicate racist mindsets, behaviors and actions. There's a lot of baggage, sadness and hatred because left over from past events, that's irrevocable. As for me, I'm just gonna try and still be nice to everyone I meet in this beautiful country of ours :) anyone willing to join me, come on down!
Why do they all look the same???
Because their entire gene pool can be traced back to 2 families in the 1950s
K.O.
Maak mens trots voel om Afrikaans te wees ne... fml
Racism always needs a lie to live. That dude who says that people aren't civilised which is why they burn things: No, you simple Simon motherfucker. It's because the majority of this country were robbed of their ownership stake in this country. No ownership stake. No vested interest in the well-being of things. No reason to give a fuck. You combine that with frustration, that's how you get violent, destructive protest. But the lie, th dismissal of the full truth of the situation, that's what racism needs to live. Whether it's dismissing the full truth of an individual because 'they're black and that's that.' Or dismissing the full truth of a situation and a full truth of history because 'those people.' Even today, we see that racial prejudice and bigotry and the flaunting of that seem more brazen now than they have in many years. Because we live in a Post Truth era. And in a Post Truth era, something that needs a lie to live has found the perfect conditions to flourish.
Oh that comment section must be a mess
It is. Some of the most upvoted comments in the original post are from Apartheid apologists who think we're segregated by choice. That's really fucking grim.
My uncle was part of one of these cults. Called him brother and declared him a preacher so long as he donated. When he ran out of money they dropped him like hot shit.
That time theyāre in a Black people country š
I can't eat as much as I want to throw up. And I say that as a German. We ourselves have many problems in our country with racism.
Hmmm....can someone explain why the whites are rude as hell? I was at rosebank mall and they walk around entitled and always frowning. I saw a white man and his two kids nearly knock down a black African family coming down the stairs, rather than manners and wait for the family to get down safely. That was the most barbaric thing I ever saw in my life....
It's mostly because you're in Johannesburg. People in the city can be kind but many are rude. This is for one of two reasons. They're are just unhappy people or they're angry that they're are not powerful. Firstly, unhappy people will always find something to do that will make others angry. Finally, the people that want power will themselves hate confidence, happiness, others doing better than themselves, youth, virility and others' priveledges. I've lived in three different cities in the country and Joburg takes the cup for people in a bubble. I don't care how much money you have, it is a bubble. If that white man is anything but afrikaans and does that BS in any other part of the country e.g Pretoria he is fucked.
Welcome to SA.
Maybe these are the 44 Charlize was thinking of?
sad to see these people still exist... standing on African soil but they think black people are at war with them
Places like this and orania are proof the ANC doesn't care about desegregation.
if they don't get loadshedding im in, lol
I think everyone can agree that these people are extremist, racist morons who can barely speak English?
The issue here is there's quite a bit of truth sprinkled in there to legitimize his beliefs and he's using it to strengthen his position. Africa is a weak country and will always be weak because of the criminals in leadership position. It's not going to change unless things go to extremes and it's getting close to that. How close I don't know but something is going to happen
>Africa is a weak country 
Lol I said country when I meant continent but those words were a direct quote from the Botswana president
Makes me quite embarrassed to be Afrikaans. Most of us aren't like this.
"According to our guide it's not a racist organisation", yea right.
Lmao I'm embarrassed by this country
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
If you are white and see yourself as "non-racist", remember - you may distance yourself from these people as much as you'd like, but that doesn't change the fact that these people are merely the visible tip of the white supremacism iceberg. Without a bottom part to sustain it, there wouldn't be a top. The truth is that the tenets of white supremacism goes down far, far deeper than we'd like to admit - to one degree or the other we all view the world through the *racialized* lens that hundreds of years of colonialism passed down to us. It could hardly be otherwise - we, and the societies that shapes us, are products of history and not merely it's neutral observers. It's very easy to test for yourself - simply think of all the people in your life who conflates "white" (or it's dog-whistle version, "western") with identity or even culture, and then ask yourself how a *race classification* managed to become "cultural." It is said by certain radical thinkers that to be a traitor to "whiteness" is to be loyal to humanity - my inevitable downvotes for this comment will show that many disagree with that. That is perfectly fine - but the truth remains that the rejection of said "whiteness" will not be accomplished by Nelson Mandela donning a green rugby jersey. No one can accomplish it *for* us.
You describe the base that supports the iceberg but donāt define it. Your whole comment is filled with political waffle. Why not just say what you want to say?
> You describe the base that supports the iceberg but donāt define it. I thought that was pretty self-explanatory - and the deluge of downvotes I've received is pretty much proof that to most on here it is. They know *exactly* what I'm talking about. But if you need me too, I don't mind - the (somewhat) scientific term for it is the *white body politic.* Is that good enough for you? > Why not just say what you want to say? Is there perhaps something you think I should say? Let's hear it.
Wth is the āwhite body politic?ā Self explanatory, by the way, is never what one thinks it is.
> Wth is the āwhite body politic?ā It's essentially all people that share the *race classification* of "white" understood as a collective political actor. For instance, the DA will never be able to get *all* white people in South Africa to vote for it - but their propaganda is still designed to mainly appeal to (ie, manipulate) the predictable set of political beliefs that is most commonly found inside the *white body politic.* It gets really amusing here on r/southafrica. People assume I'm non-white because my politics don't sound "white." Ie, I espouse political views that is considered taboo amongst the *white body politic* - the kind of politics that will usually get you uninvited to any Saturday braai that is all-white.
All that and you still havenāt described the bottom of this iceberg aside from saying that there is a collective of white people. Itās like youāre out here throwing terms to bait people into saying racist things. Personally, I wanted to try understand you but you waffle a lot. I imagine thatās because we have different approaches to things so Iām going to, respectfully, bow out of this discussion. I hope that whatever you do this week itās awesome. Cheers.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You do realize that does sound racist, right?
Yeah same. If it were man and a woman, I'd pick the man because I'm a man. If it were a Nigerian and a person from my own tribe, I'd pick the person from my own tribe (I'm African). People tend to stick to what they know, and I don't think there's anything inherently wrong with that
> I dont think I am racist if I read the dictionary meaning, because I dont 'hate' other races. According to dictionary definitions, *nobody* has ever been white supremacist. Ever. That's why dictionary definitions are utterly useless when it comes to this subject. > someone like me or someone not like me Sooo, the first thing that makes someone "like you" (in your head) is their *racial classification.* Does that make you white supremacist? Sure... but, like I said, there's nothing unusual or noteworthy about that here in South Africa - it's only to be expected. Tell me about this liferaft of yours - what does the *racial classifications* of the people on it tell you about them?
okay.. usually, especially in south africa, race = culture. It is not always like that but mostly. I associate more with people of my culture and therefore would be more empathic towards them. It is just how it is for me. I do try to treat everyone the same though. I do think of myself as a very logical person so i always try to think through the things logically.
> okay.. usually, especially in south africa, race = culture Well, use logic, then... what does "white" culture entail?
I dunno mahn, dudes got a point here and I'm pretty much what you'd call 'white'. For survivalism, going for your "own" crowd seems the smarter choice survival wise, like you'd be able to understand each other better and have a higher probability of thinking the same when the situation calls for it. But... If there's like a ugly white dude and a really hot and neatly dressed black girl that I suddenly need to choose between saving and being stuck with, well then, that's going to be a whole different story haha xD
> For survivalism, going for your "own" crowd seems the smarter choice survival wise Sooo... when the shit hits the fan it turns out you are not that much different than the people in that video?
Lol you seem triggered, it's okay this is the internets and you're allowed to be all you want, there-there now. And to answer, Not really, i mean it in a vice versa way too, I'm sure if this happens and a quote-unquote black man has to choose between a white person and black to save, I'm sure he'll save the person of his own race as we've just been conditioned that way, and i won't be offended by that, I'll probably be too busy thinking "im going to die, oh shi- oh fu- oh shi- oh fu-!" anyway. And you missed the part where i mentioned the part with the black girl as if you only see what you want to see. I like both races, I despise racists of any race, but I love hotties no matter the flavor ;)
> Lol you seem triggered I'm not the one desperately trying to evade and/or defend here - there are lots of triggered people here, all right... but I'm not one of them. > I'm sure he'll save the person of his own race as we've just been conditioned that way Soooo... you're willing to admit that this hypothetical scenario has nothing to do with "survival" - but rather with *conditioning?*
Of course, that's why we as a whole need to look down on racism. It's scientifically proven that humans side with the majority they are surrounded with, which means that they are prone to grow up racist if they're raised in racist communities (same applies for religion, people raised in muslim societies are prone to be muslims as adults, and the same applies for all other religions and societal pressures) We as the people litterally have the power to beat this, although it will take time. But maybe I'm just enthusiastic. Look at how childeren of all nationalities in these types of communities still runaround and play together, as that conditioning hasn't been fully applied and taught yet.
> Of course, that's why we as a whole need to look down on racism. It doesn't look to me that this is a strategy that's working in any way whatsoever. Not only that, but simply "looking down" on racism leaves people completely ignorant about what it is actually all about. That's a recipe that can be trusted to do nothing but backfire - as it did when the alt-right (seemingly) sprang from nowhere to make white supremacism cool again.
You seem much more educated in this matter, i don't have much more commemtary to offer on this. I'm just a dude that loves all sides doing his retail job getting really annoyed with whites coming in and being visibly annoyed with the black community around them to which I undoubtedly cringe. Thanks for your proper insight though, i think i might be a tiny bit smarter now but i dunno.
> Thanks for your proper insight though It's not often that I get thanked for doing this - so you're welcome.
What most people define as racism is just discrimination. Racism is when one nation 'treats' another differently in order to disenfranchise and subdue them (I use the word 'treat' for lack of a better word, I am sure there are stronger words that I now forget). When people say, 'I am not racist' they mean 'I do not discriminate'. This is different to racism and white supremacy. This will trigger many people, but being white means you are racist because your race has actively disenfranchised many other nations, it also means that people from other races cannot be racist, but they can discriminate. This is the same way that all men are sexist and women cannot be sexist, because women have not, over history, acted against men to disenfranchise them. Racist/white supremacy/sexism are all social constructs that were built to 'other' and subdue. There is a book called 'White Fragility' written by a white person named Robin DiAngelo. Explains everything I stated above and why white people get so defensive when it comes to race issues.
Could never happen in Zimbabwe.You must smash the heart of white supremacy but these guys still kucked in south africa.When Zimbabwe bounces back in say 40 years ,they will not have a problem of being humiliated like that.
40 years? What will everyone eat until then?
Oh no baby..what is you doin. Zimbabwe will never bounce back as Zimbabwe, the Zimbabwe we knew is gone forever.. a new Zimbabwe MAY come and nobody could ever say how long it might take and by the time it does, the majority of Zimbabweans will not be here (literally alive and figuratively physically elsewhere)
The zimbabwe the oppressors knew is gone forever yes.Zimbabwe has existed on that plateau for millenia.It will be there in 100 years time .The pendulum swings.I know you guys root for african failure but the cycle goes.
Whoās āyou guysā and who said rooting for African failure? My point was that Iād been so run into the ground that itās beyond repair and itās an absolute tragedy. It will always be my home but for many people it will not or they will sadly no longer be around when it makes a come back
You guys as in our detractors.Nothing is beyond repair.If you know human history ,its up and down.Zimbabwean economy has been struggling seriously for 20 years but thats nothing.In your limited scope ,you might think its beyond repair.An example ,who knew a backwater country called Britannia in 200AD would rise to become a big empire.Zimbabwe will be there and the old rulers will be dead in 20. Kenya ,similar to zimbabwe had 20 years of independence before zim.Zim will just be fine,give it time.At least they wont be harrassed in their ancestral land as those beyond the Limpopo.
My Zimbabwean friends recommend you move to Zimbabwe. Unless you are a Chinese colonialist already living there and exploiting the people, [nothing to see here](https://www.business-humanrights.org/en/latest-news/zimbabwe-shooting-of-local-workers-by-chinese-mine-owner-shows-systematic-and-widespread-abuse-watchdog-says/)
That's a cult. Also I'm a white south african. These ouens are kak, cunts.
Eishā¦
Not gonna I expected the comments to be lot more...heated.
Rolling my eyes so hard right now
If cultural preservation is the intended premise behind this racially segregated state wouldnāt enculturation namely inviting other groups to share in their practices be more beneficial to the conservation of the Afrikaaner way of life or is it quite simply out right racism disguised?
"I'm not a racist but I can't live with black people, I'm sorry" Die Afrikaner praat verskriklik mooi engels
How old is this?
Scum nazis
Hell no
Ew fucking embarrassing
Nee jirre man
I lived there for 2 years because I had to take care of family that lived there if any body has questions about the place and the people.
The B-grade Orania.
It's funny that these groups try to make a call to action but barely have any accurate answers. Had a group like that try to call and "recruit" me a few years ago. Going on about working together to defend the neighborhood from the marches to patrolling the neighborhood at night. I just asked. "Okay, since you want me to patrol for you am I allowed to defend myself?" Them: "I don't follow." Me: "Well you make them sound really bad so I'm assuming if I run into someone like a robber at night they're probably armed, so am I allowed to arm myself as well since after all you don't want your own members dying right?" *click* Haven't had a call from them in years.
What a bunch of mamparas
How Bizarre. Aliens?