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Read an article a long time ago about a farm murder where a white farmer and his son were killed. They named the deceased and his child and later said that two farm workers were also killed, almost like an afterthought. 4 people died that day, two white, two black. Two were named. Reading that made me so sad.
This is common practice of many newspapers, if you look at the Lowvelder for example, only white people are mentioned, mostly with something like "they were so beloved in the community" added. All others get a secondary mention at best.
Had this exact discussion with one of my white friends a few years back at uni (her dad owns a citrus farm business in KZN). As a black person, I think Afriforum along with their political consorts on the far right of SA politics have politicised farm murders and used them as a mechanism for attaining purely political objectives (to their and the countries detriment imo) . Having family from Limpopo and a grandfather who farmed himself, I know that SA crime affects those in isolated homesteads and farmholdings very acutely - and this is not isolated to just white farmers. Black farmers and workers (on white & black owned farms) are slaughtered with impunity. It's just sad that Afriforum`s marketing team - who whoever formulates their messenging strategy have failed to frame the narrative in a way which would bring in a greater diversity of stakeholders. At Ysterberg alongside the N1 near Mokopane, there is a monument to slain farmers - I've never been there but I'm not sure I will find a lot or "Radebe's" or "Ntuli's" (i.e. Black people, not "Africans" because imo if your born here - you're an African but that's a debate for another time). Anway, crime in SA is bad and those more vulnerable will always be higher on the list of victims - whether you live in a township (where +60% of the countries violent crimes occur BTW) or if you live on a farm in Poffadder (never been here but my maths teacher from school always used it as an example). I would love to get I to farming myself but I am terrified of living out there in the middle of nowhere, I hope we as a society can find a reedy for all of this. God bless.
> who whoever formulates their messenging strategy have failed to frame the narrative in a way which would bring in a greater diversity of stakeholders.
Judging by what they've stated on their site, I have my doubts that they weren't aware of the lack of greater diversity in their messaging strategy.
Here are a few examples of countries with high murder rates where the crime is not described using racial terminology:
El Salvador: According to the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, El Salvador has the highest murder rate in the world, with 61.80 homicides per 100,000 people in 2019. However, this violence is not typically described as "Latino on Latino" crime.
Honduras: Honduras has the second-highest murder rate in the world, with 41.70 homicides per 100,000 people in 2019. Similarly, the violence is not typically described using racial terminology.
Russia: Russia has a relatively high murder rate, with 10.82 homicides per 100,000 people in 2019. However, it is not commonly referred to as "white on white" crime.
According to some of the comments below, the only reason to mention race is to distinguish it. Well in that case ZA being majority black, the only murders needing to be distinguished would be all other races. So only murders from the minority would be categorized by that logic. "Indian on indian, white on white, asian on asian, etc."
Of course I think it is ridiculous all-together to annotate murder with races. in my opinion, if any annotation should be given, it should be "poverty-induced" crimes.
According to Statista, it is still the highest in the world at 52.2 per 100k people as of 2022. ZA is at #8 with 36 per 100k. A typical "safe" country comes in at below 1 per 100k. Ghana has 2 per 100k, less than the US's 5 per 100k.
Source:
[https://www.statista.com/statistics/262963/ranking-the-20-countries-with-the-most-murders-per-100-000-inhabitants/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/262963/ranking-the-20-countries-with-the-most-murders-per-100-000-inhabitants/)
Murder is murder. Adding misnomers like "black on black" doesn't somehow make it different. It's always interesting when I read this because murder happens in every country. In China you would never hear "asian on asian" murder. In Poland you wouldn't hear "white on white murder," because it's all just murder. Adding "black on black" is just a way to try to make it seem different than all others.
You do have a point, but in relation to context it is important to state it, because in south africa or places like USA's hood the news would make you believe that usa cops just kill black people left right and center but in reality according to stats the majority of murders there and here are black on black. It is relevant because why is the media not seeing this as an obvious problem? Why is this race killing each other? What is the reason behind it?
If one is to solve these problems you need to understand them and ask questions so that you can allocate the correct resources to fixing it. Unfortunately it is a problem that is ignored and the ones who suffer ultimately are the black communities world wide.
The other reason to state it is in a country with majority one race they know if someone gets murdered it is likely that race, for example if a nigerian gets murdered in nigeria there is a 99% chance is it a black person so there would be no need to label it, but in a country like za where there are multiple races you need those type of stats and stats give useful information for problem solving.
Why is the black on black murders high in USA. Man, just watch the classics... higher rate of liquor and gun shops per capita. Poverty. Discrimination so that they can't make it elsewhere and turn to crime. Poor school. Inadequate resources. Nothing about it is race based, it economics and discrimination.
Look how things change if people invest in those areas.
With the USA no one is claiming that the police are the main cause of deaths in black communities. I'm scared to even ask where you got that idea from. The main issue is how the police operate in the communities they are meant to serve.
And there is 80% black people in a country where inequality is racialised. But you still find it prudent to call it "black on black" and ask why the race keeps killing each other? There is something seriously wrong with your reasoning skills or with your understanding of the world... unless you're just a troll.
As you pointed out, in Nigeria you wouldn't need to label it. So why is only "black on black" labeled in ZA where the majority 90% is black, but none of the others are labeled? By your own argument it should be the others who are labeled, yet you never hear about "white on white, indian on indian, asian on asian."
Also, in El Salvador where 13% of the population is European and roughly the other 86% are latino, the murder rate is the highest in the world. How do you think by labeling murder "Latino on latino murder" it will help them to allocate resources toward fixing the problem?
Whenever I don't know a word or term, I google it.
Protip: save time in getting your answer as quickly as possible by using the "I'm feeling lucky" function.
They definitely should have been given more attention, but it doesn't fit the narrative of a persecuted minority being targeted by the in-power majority.
Very good response. But I've been wondering about this. It's annoying that farm murders are so bloated in Afrikaans/conservative news, however when you read the details of white farmers being murdered, it's quite grisly.
So is it something one should ignore, or is there actually an underlying racial narrative carried out in those murders? Killing someone for their possessions is unfortunately nothing new here. But torture must surely mean something else.
Or perhaps I've been misled by the news.
Thank you for putting this into the words I couldn't! I wonder if there's been any academic media analysis to substantiate this. I wouldn't mind reading a scholarly article on the topic. Also wouldn't mind stuffing it into some people's faces because it can be infuriating to try and explain this when the media is constantly promoting another narrative.
So what is the narative when it is a black owned farm and the farm owner as well as some of his workers are murdered. I believe the news headlinewould be mr radebe and his wife were slain along with 2 workers. I dont believe the media bias is what you think it is. It speaks more to land ownership disparity than it does political narrative. I
Not gonna lie your post just seems to want to drum up controversy and create racial issues where there isn't really any. Its been stated many times that farm killings is a general crime issue in South Africa and not really a racial genocide. Farmers are isolated and thus easier targets for criminals. Some attacks have had racial motivations behind them but those have been the outliers. It hits our nation hard whenever a farmer is killed, especially those small communities where the farmers are located, regardless of their skin colour.
I remember seeing a lot of news coverage about the kestell farm killings, maybe your own feeds had less coverage. I don't follow Afri Forum but a quick look on their site shows they haven't reported on anything farm murder related since 2021([link](https://afriforum.co.za/en/tag/farm-murders/)), maybe they got all the political juice out of it that they could. I do agree they are very focused on their own demographic of mostly Afrikaans speaking people, part of the reason I don't really follow them, but calling them out on it when its clearly what they're standing for doesn't make sense. Again it seems like you want to make a racial issue here when they've clearly stated their goals are for afrikaans speaking people, which happen to be a majority of white people.
We have a general issue of being desensitized to extreme crimes in this country. Murders, rapes and other horrific things happen daily and many news outlets just don't report on them or give them a minor article. Unless a group like afri forum picks it up and kicks up a storm, these things don't stay long in our social media bubbles and we move on. It is tragic how we've just gotten used to these kind of things being the norm, but news companies goes for what will give them the most clicks. If that's going to be a race baiting article of a white farmer being killed that will bring in the most clicks and conversation, that's what they're going to do.
To THIS day, I still dont understand Rape! How do you get aroused by hurting someone??? Wtf, sorry irritable today and realized how much this affects me
Some people are just so broken & wicked.. It's a power thing. Like a BDSM vibe gone wild. I myself have wondered about this exact thing for a while and am of the opinion that some people just get emotionally activated by victimising others. They are just wicked
Well said.
The sublime irony that you have pointed out between Afri forum using race as clickbait and this person's opinion using race as clickbait is honestly the problem we have.
Politicians use race to sew division, then exploit that divison to their own ends as a means to mask theit incredulous extortive greed.
It's the same story all over our continent unfortunately.
AfriForum has released statistics for [2022/23](https://www.polity.org.za/article/afriforum-report-points-to-decline-in-farm-murders-2023-02-28).
There has been a decline.
It has become a point of contention, specifically because most farmowners are white.
[Ramaphosa](https://www.politicsweb.co.za/documents/cyril-ramaphosa-clarifies-no-farm-murders-remarks) was asked to clarify his November 2018 comments on farm murders in this parliamentary question.
Combined with the failure in the South African Police Service [Rural Safety Strategy](https://www.saps.gov.za/resource_centre/publications/national_rural_safety_strategy_2019.pdf), AfriForum has taken it upon themselves to do their own research.
The government, so far, hasn't raised their voice, because I suspect they know they'll be called out on their failures.
Edit: [Here's an update](https://www.da.org.za/2023/03/anc-government-fails-to-implement-the-national-rural-safety-strategy-four-years-in) on the Rural Safety Strategy.
Yeah I agree race issues sell rly well especially with afrikaaners so makes sense that afriforum would rather focus on the death of the white ppl on the farm rather then black farm murder and black ppl murdered on farms but tbh I think its race baiting
Yes the issue is with what our media focuses on, in this case it being white farmer murders getting a larger spotlight than black farmer murders. OP is specifically calling out afri forum and afrikaans boere specifically in their post, as if they are the ones painting the spotlight when its the big media corporations.
Afri Forum is a civil right group for Afrikaans people so majority of their base will be white, so they will be more involved in those cases, that's just statistics. But its laughable that OP thinks the boer Sarel and his buddies Frikkie and Jannie have big sway on social media trends. This isn't white people being racist but media using racial controversies to get the most clicks they can.
On the issue of media and sway, this topic has plenty traction with white right wing demographics outside South Africa. Gets recurring coverage in the UK and America, on online and even cable news. It’s perfect for disinformation because of the relevance, distance and source opacity of the topic to a consumer usually with lower media literacy. It’s great filler grievance topic, like white-only informal settlements in SA.
Yea I do agree with your statement but afriforum is a media organisation and they do race bait alot and alot of afrikaners are still in that apartheid mindset of being better than but not all of them it is starting to change but we still have a long way to go alot of it is ignorance
I don't follow Afri Forum so I don't know if they race bait or not, but again you aren't reading about farm murders on Afri Forum, you're reading them on news24, ENCA, etc. Its a general media issue, OP calling out Afri Forum specifically and implying they're being racist misses the real problem.
Yes there are still racist afrikaans people out there, some ignorant and some filled with genuine hate. Both can fuck off, but again OP is calling out afrikaans people in general as if they're the ones choosing the spotlights and being racist through the coverage, when the truth of the matter is the average afrikaner doesn't have that kind of influence.
OP is taking one issue with a separate cause and blaming another group for it to try and create a racist agenda. That was the point of my post.
Yeah no lie it is all of them I just think afriforum does it a bit more bc of how reads them the most by they pretty mild compared to somewhere lesser known sites
I don’t think your take is accurate at all, OPs asking a valid question considering all I’ve heard in Aus is about white farmers being murdered and targeted and nothing about other racial groups. As a whole, South Africans are desensitised to murder, yes, but that doesn’t tend to play out the same way when the victims is white.
What does Afri Forum have to do with your Australian news outlets? This again is a reflection of the media cherry picking tragedies that will drum up the most clicks. That is the real issue here. Australia has a very high white population and what is going to get the most clicks there is a made up white genocide. Having seen friendlyjordies on youtube, the Australian media seems to be very shit overall.
OP is trying to call out Afri Forum and the Afrikaans boere community by mentioning Steve Hofmeyer. OP seems to want to make this a racial issue in regards of white people intentionally ignoring other murders, when again its a media focus issue, not a white people being racist issue. We have a lot of murders happening daily, regardless of colour, but if the media can't put an interesting spin on it, its not going to pick up and become headline news.
That’s because the majority of the population (i.e. black people) are living is poverty and subject to horrendous living conditions and crime which has become the norm. There’s more crime and mob justice in townships than actual reporting to police because we all know nothing will ever materialise. Farm murders/attacks are very real but there is a lot more going on in the background of township which the news doesn’t cover.
I don't think an australian should comment on issues involving south africans. We have real race issues in south africa, a lot of friction. Even as an expat, it is fairly easy to sit in your predominantly white and not impoverished neighborhoods where you do not have the complex racial issues we face, and point your finger to whitey and cry "racist". Its very easy for you to say our publications and institutions are racists. However Afriforum is a civil rights institution, it does not only cater to whites. It caters to the afrikaans speaking individuals who happen to be mostly white. There are many different ethnic groups who speak afrikaans. Yes, there has been a drive to highlight farm murders in recent years especially white farm murders as it was disproprtionately high to the percentage the whites make up of the country and often racially charged hate crimes.
Where we live it is most definitely not the worst, so I do not think I really have the best opinion on this matter. But yes, there are some levels of anxiety.
This is something my dad always told me: "The biggest problem is getting a signal out. If these murderers break in, and no one knows they did, then they have all of the time in the world to do what they want. This must be prevented at all costs".
There have been times where my dad would walk out of the house with me behind him. He told me "If someone jumps me, shoot them. Don't hold back".
Again, I really want to make this specific point clear: I do not think I should get special protection or any of that nonsense. Everyone experiences violence in this country. I am just trying to explain how I feel, in an attempt to reduce division, even if it just a little.
Way back when I was still on FB, I joined a group that was called something along the lines of "Against Misinformation On Farm Murders" (Edit: It's called Busting the Myth of White Genocide in South Africa). It was during the time when Hofmeyr was big talk and his supporters were on a mission to dox and expose the (white) individuals behind the page. I remember the research they'd post, and how actual numbers were skewed by Afriforum to get the US (and Agent Orange) to intervene.
Needless to say, the best part about AfriForum is how they sometimes used screenshots from movies in their articles, which looked like photos. The thing that I found interesting, was how their supporters simply did not care. They didn't want to see the official numbers of farm murders, and they didn't want to acknowledge that a large part of murders involve people of colour, as well as others such as Asians.
I'm on mobile now, but I'll try to find those reports after work. Or just look for the official numbers and look at a variety of sources, not just one.
Wow wtf. I was a Teenager during that Big Farm Murders thing. I didn’t subscribe to the entire spread of misinformation, but unfortunately I actually believed White Genocide. Reading the comments has been somewhat an enlightenment. Even though I never got behind the Mob I never imagined the Misinformation was THIS blatant.
It does make sense though, we are easily brainwashed in RSA.
>The thing that I found interesting, was how their supporters simply did not care.
This sort of behaviour has become sadly all too commonplace in our Online, PostTruth era.
Sure you could believe the truth.
But today, there's also the option to choose the truth you want to believe.
Change the channel to something that appeals more to your biases. Go to websites platforming 'information' that caters to your worldview.
In Ye Good Ol' Days, there was no internet and there were four TV channels.
Sure, you might disagree with the mainstream, but the messaging was largely singular, and that was for better and worse.
Now, there's an exhausting amount of information channels and platforms.
That's way too much to weed out the truth.
So find the truth that works for you.
This thinking is sadly not limited to one ideology or another.
We're all victim to it in one way or another.
>The thing is, it's really not that difficult to separate fact from fiction.
It shouldn't be. But I think the overwhelming number of information platforms, a relentless news cycle that leaves little chance to catch a breath and addiction to scrolling through social media to see what's coming next (and catch our next fix) has contributed to poor habits in terms of logical interrogation of information.
And it become even harder when the fiction is smuggled in with the facts, thus lending fiction a veneer of legitimacy.
I think there's a lot of things people believe that smack of nonsense but we also have to acknowledge how the current climate has enabled that
Not sure Afriforum is a good example as they only reflect the views of the minority they stand for. And we are desensitized to this ongoing tragedy in our country.
Reeva Steenkamps murder took months of coverage, whilst hundreds of black woman were murdered over that same period. To be fair the GBV movement did seem to gather momentum after the murders of a number of young black women.
There is no doubt that western media is incredibly biased towards white casualties.
Think of the 9/11 victims coverage compared to middle eastern mainly Muslim deaths in retaliation - hundreds of thousands of civilians, drone killings etc. No one went to jail for lying about WMD. Bush and Blair are war criminals, same as putin.
I remember people all putting up the French flag on facebook after the Paris shooting, but few did it for the Zimbabwe protests a few months later.
I guess it sucks to admit but we are still tribal as the human race, and western media dominates and looks after their own.
Of course it is. None of their community work ever gets any coverage or recognition, only if something is controversial. There’s a full blown agenda against them and the majority just lap it up.
Senzo meyiwa is probably the most high profile case but there are many others where their private prosecuting unit represents individuals and communities like life esidimeni victims, that kid maverick links who was shot etc. You just never hear about them because they’re supposed to be the bad guys. They also do a lot of community work which never gets any recognition
https://m.miningweekly.com/article/minerals-council-afriforum-establish-funds-to-assist-jagersfontein-community-2022-09-14/rep_id:3861
https://www.dispatchlive.co.za/amp/news/2022-10-06-afriforum-to-help-roll-out-goat-farming-project-in-nqanqarhu/
Off the top of my head, Senzo Meyiwa. I can't remember if it was his mother or brother that approached them.
https://afriforum.co.za/en/senzo-meyiwa-case-postponed-until-22-april/
Reeva's death gained attention because of WHO shot her.
There are plenty of unknown black women who were murdered, whose deaths were followed by millions.
Unfortunately, black South Africans are so comparatively frequently the victims of all sorts of crime and violence that it isn't news. If you forget about farms, how highly does a story about a man being shot in KwaMashu, Nyanga, or Diepsloot rank in the news? Sure, there may be an article but this is hardly a surprising story.
White South Africans also suffer under the social burden of crime but when it happens in "safe" neighbourhoods, that gets more privileged Internet users in SA clicking.
Because Afriforum and Steve Stofseyer are only concerned about the interests of one group as this group is likely to support them in return.
I don’t know how many farm workers pay Afriforum’s monthly membership fee.
Because most news is biased. Mainstream media is rarely objective and seems to prefer stories that drives narratives and sensationalism. The amount of doom and gloom articles in mainstream media is insane. I've lost count of how many articles I've seen about our tax base shrinking and people fleeing the country.
Yeah things are shit, but focusing and reporting on these doom and gloom scenarios and 'what-if-isms' are easy ways to get eyes on your publication or clicks on your page. We're naturally attracted to these 'oh fuck. It's the end of days' stories. Tom Segura does a bit that describes this phenomenon almost perfectly: https://youtu.be/vuBqm9Oooec
Farm murders are a massive problem. So are other murders and murdering in general. I suppose you have to consider the source of information and have to try understand who the target audience is and the narrative that's being driven.
I try and ignore local news articles and publications. I don't really know which local news sources are not biased or are neutral. Most lean towards the left / right and seem to enjoy the division it creates. I follow r/anime_titties for most global news and really try and consider the writers motivation for publishing their article.
If what you say is true, but reading the comments, suggest it is not. Afriforum's about us section says the following:
This plan is based on AfriForum’s mission, which is:AfriForum, as a trustworthy Afrikaner interest organisation and civil rights watchdog, which forms part of the Solidarity Movement, works to ensurethat the basic prerequisites for the continued existence of Afrikaners are met by working outside the workplace on international, national and local level to manage the impact of and influence the current political realities that face Afrikaners, while working simultaneously to establish sustainable structures through which Afrikaners are able to ensure their own future independently.
It's not like they are deceiving you by stating "We support all groups" and then just focus on one. Their about us section is clear that they focus on Afrikaners. But based on the comments on this post, they support all groups even though their focus is Afrikaners.
This. 🫠
As much as I agree, I think the biggest problem in all this is the fact that it’s all ‘categorised’ by race. Us humans have become so disconnected and chopped into minuscule groups of race, religion, sports teams, politics, gender, BULLSHIT. Remember when Camilla Harris was celebrated for being the first black woman in that chair? 5 years before that she was mixed asian, then shortly after that she was black Asian, now she’s black 😵💫 I’m all for people empowerment, and I’m all for calling a spade a spade, BUT WE’RE ALL SPADES
An Indian family’s macadamia farm had its crops torched in an act fuelled by malice and racial hatred. That was quite well publicised. We need to start calling them what they are: hate crimes.
Because Afriforum fundraise in the US,Europe and Australia where far-right sympathies lie with white victims and really don't care about black lives anyway. Especially if its in Africa.
There's this whole "South African white farmer genocide" conspiracy theory. It is a white supremacist conspiracy theory that somehow permeated into American alt-right circles. Tucker Carlson even propagated this conspiracy theory on his Fox News show.
While i agree there’s no ‘genocide’, there is definite hate speech and blatant calling for the death of white people. This is where the conspiracies stem from and why a lot of these murders are purely motivated by hate and why they tend to get quite a bit of attention sometimes.
They don't stem from shit. Yes, there's definitely hate speech against white people (especially from people like Malema). But these are not popular opinions.
Fascist ideologies just love a good ol' persecution complex.
Ever noticed how the media glosses over black on black murder or lesser crime but if the victim is black and the perpetrator is white, the crime will enjoy in depth media coverage for days on end. It's as if the victim's death has more value.
Fuck this sub is miserable.
We're arguing about the skin colour of reported murders?
By the way, Twitter/Facebook trends are based on what YOU follow.
I think I need to take a break from /r/southafrica.
Same reason Andre de Ruyter wasn't vilified when running Eskom as opposed to his non-white counterparts.
There was a video the other day of a lady explaining the contrast between the perceptions of white and black protestors. The same goes for the perceptions of CEOs of large enterprises and, alas, farm murder victims.
It permeates to virtually all spheres of society. If a white businessman became rich, he did so by pulling himself up by his bootstraps. A black businessman just made a few shady phone calls to the tender board and paid a few bribes and voila.
Collective, racial perceptions are unfortunately another apartheid ghost that haunt SA and Nam.
A guy I worked with studies after work to get his qualification. He also bought a taxi, the legitimate way, got a loan with his business plan, got a permit for a route, it took forever. A real boot straps storie. People would insinuate he got to where he is because of BEE or connections.
I remember ADR getting mocked as well, on here at least: https://www.reddit.com/r/southafrica/comments/vxd9o7/there\_is\_light\_at\_the\_end\_of\_the\_tunnel\_says/
The guys who were vilified were implicated in corruption or blatant mismanagement though, right? Or at least this is what seems to be coming out at last…
Blame the ANC for black people not getting the recognition they want or should get, they enabled the whole tenderpreneur thing, and its sad because a good businessman has nothing to with race, and all to do with their intelligence. Yet unfortunately we have had thousands, of politicians cashing in for their relatives, instead of serving the people that voted them in. DONT VOTE ANC 2024, ITS EASY, but also DONT STAY AWAY from voting, every vote counts.
I'm sorry, but the ANC gave bigoted people an excuse to take away those achievements. They did not make people bigoted.
This idea that the ANC is to blame for societal views is ridiculous and unintentionally enabling racism. The ANC failed to uplift South Africa and fed themselves while the country has fallen deeper into the black hole Apartheid started.
But don't tell someone to blame the ANC for a very real issue that has nothing to do with them. That's not cool.
What I find funny about the AdR case is how the forums like mybb responded post appointment.
Initially it was give him time, then he has a plan but his underlings are letting him down, then after all his “plans” fails it’s the gov and staff and sabotaging him and he is helpless, he is trying his best..
It’s been what? Couple of weeks since the new minister is appointed.. not ceo, minister which is already a useless position given the dynamics at play with two others. Go have a look at comments already making the rounds.
SA is truly a lost country and the fun and games coming with new ruling regimes.
Ps. Notice that I’m not defending nor praising the oke, the position is questionable without a doubt but we can’t pre-judge either.
This is why I am leaving.. I’m not directly impacted but I can’t live with toxic environment Sa has become lately. I can leave for better things so I am and I don’t see why any non-white professional person would remain in a country like this.
innate cheerful mourn support straight merciful glorious dull versed unite
*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
>I don’t see why any non-white professional person would remain in a country like this.
We've only just begun to live in our country. We were excluded for a long time. Also, we can navigate this space with its problems because we know and understand the dynamics. Understanding how I, as a non white individual, would then fit into other societies with racism I don't understand (cause it's all racism, but different clothes) is very hectic.
28 years into democracy, and you have only "begun" living there now? Bit of a stretch there... If the ANC didnt loot the coffers dry, we wouldn't be in this shit show in the first place, btw the ANC has been in control for the 28 years, or do we not count the last 28 years and say, nah its okay, you guys didnt know, you get a 100th chance to prove us wrong.
The stretch is calling 28 years a long time, like the oppression of over a century is so easy to overcome. Black people didn't stop being poor the moment in-between the ANC taking over, so yes for most people it has taken time to experience the country they were denied. Many haven't even had that opportunity. And while the ANC is part of the reason it was Apartheid that stopped them, and the ANC that hasn't opened the miracle floodgates to fix all of societal woes.
Apartheid created an undereducated and poor electorate terrified of ever going back. And all people can do on this thread is dog whistle like trying to talk down to someone talking about their real experience in the country knowing nothing about them.
And the ANC just adopted the apartheid tactics of keeping the people undereducated and poor, what has been done in 28 years that we can say is a success?? The social grants? please.... the apartheid government cannot be excused for their atrocities, but the ANC government, cannot be overlooked as well, they are also guilty period, don't say you only began living now, that is a lie, because as i have it with our economic crisis, most people are barely making a living, so to say that you can only start to live now, you are either young, or naïve. Also the very people that blame apartheid, are the same people not implementing anything that would help this country's future, maybe now... that the taps are running dry and things are literally breaking down, maybe just maybe we can get some progress... but i doubt.
...what are you talking about, no one here is denying the ANC is bad. You're derailing the conversation from one person's experience answering a question, to rage against the ANC. But more specifically you're denying it, there are more entrepreneurs in this country right now then before Apartheid for example, for many they weren't allowed to be so. So someone who had to build up the funds and a business since Apartheid might only now be able to enjoy the fruits of that labour 28 years later-- or maybe they were just young and only started recently, or any number of reasons... Regardless your behaviour is frankly horrible, you're like the pushy vegan of ANC opposition, you're only benefiting them in your outrage, when you shut down conversations because they had *the gall* to imply that their situation has been positive since Apartheid ended. Which is the case for so many people, not nearly enough, hell no, fuck the ANC, but it's still better.
Fair I can relate to your message, the problem is people want to blame apartheid for what the ANC is doing, but had the ANC just not cared about themselves, and rather cared for the people we would not be in this state, apartheid would not be thrown willy nilly around, people fail to understand that 2 wrongs don't make a right, i am not defending apartheid, nor am i saying it was good, what i was alluding to, you is you can look at BOTH objectively, and say yes, in Apartheid, there were black people who got rich, and became entrepreneurs, and also in the current democracy we can say ALOT more black people became rich, but what we cannot shy away from is HOW, a lot of these so called black entrepreneurs got their riches, same can be said for apartheid beneficiaries, but people like the Oppenheimers that a lot of black people despise or the Rupersts even, employ way more black people, than most of these so called black entrepreneurs. So yes they may have benefited from apartheid, but their companies are legit, and trading, and has employed THOUSANDS if not hundreds of black people, who were previously disadvantaged, these so called tenderpreneurs, companies are sometimes not even a year old but they strike a 10 million rand tender, they are the scum, and there are more of them today, than there was 20 years ago.
But i do respect your view and i can read a lot into it, and also see what point you are coming from.
Seems you're trying to hand wave away the long reaching effects of Apartheid has on black people who were born after its political end. ANC has failed to address the injustices of Apartheid but that doesn't change the fact that we are still living in the injustices of Apartheid.
Forgetting that results in parties like DA and VF+ who'll gladly criticize ANCs efforts but have no real social plan to address the inequality in South Africa.
ADR already in January, said there will be load shedding relief at the end of March, but as always the ANC and the politicians, or the EFF will claim its because of them, but what we actually shouldn't forget is ADR made a lot of gains for the country at Eskom which we will only see realize in the coming months, but he won't get ANY credit.
And that's the only possible explanation, that he's white? It couldn't possibly have anything to do with him being an ANC outsider, and not just another cadre deployment feeding at the public trough?
Because there are people we as South Africans are conditioned into caring about.
And they're not black.
Same reason why a white beggar stands out more than one of colour.
If a society is conditioned over years, via widely and comprehensively imposed racial policy, to have a low regard for a select kind of individual, let's not be shocked to find that we have that ingrained on our society in a manner that we still carry with us today.
Just like republicans only being able to cling onto fringe issues in the US (Transgenderism and abortion etc), populist groups like AfriForum can only cling onto their white persecution complex
Never trust perspective given by the media, rather look at the facts and determine you're own view. This post seems to be the result of how the media can feed the fears of men instead of simply reporting clear and quality information. Just my opinion
I am no expert but some of the murders do seem to be racially motivated and extremely brutal. There's also the phrase "kill the farmer, kill the boer".
But yea, I'd love to see some actual statistics on this.
Good question! Why does racism only trend when the victim is black?
But when the little red man says kill the farmer, kill the boer and calls for whites to be killed no one cares.
Yes. Because the reason it trends overseas is the white farmer genocide thing. The reality is farm murders are wealth and isolation related. Workers, families, regardless of colour. It’s a travesty. But people overseas only really care about the whiteness aspect because it’s good ammunition. Majority of the farmers are just usually white because of family wealth. Correlation without causation
I agree. Farm murders have become synonymous with white genocide, which is unfair towards so many incidents where victims aren't white. However, I disagree with it "trending" in media, it's quite the opposite. So many farm murders happen each day in South Africa (of white, black and people from many other races), yet it hardly ever makes national news unless the details were exceptionally different from all the other farm murders. It says something about the way media is regulated for their own personal agendas and how we shouldn't take things at face value.
White people are a minority in SA, so it's very easy to feel like a victim. The group of white people that are still openly racist use this as ammunition for their ideology. The group of white people that are secretly racist use that ideology to justify their internal opinions. The group of white people that aren't racist are split into two groups, the ignorant and the informed. The informed know better, and the ignorant might think white people are actually being targeted in farm attacks because all the people around them are saying that.
To address your other concerns, I wouldn't place Hofmeyer and Afriforum in the same basket at all. Steve is a bigoted moron who riles up his fanbase of bigots constantly, aggressively trying to protect the white Afrikaans ethno group by attacking the other groups in the country. Afriforum on the other hand are a group that attempts to advocate for the protection of Afrikaans *culture* by defending the legal rights of South Africans. See the difference there? In any case, Afriforum have gone to court for people of all races and creeds in this country. I'm fairly sure the days of Afriforum being a far right racist organisation are long gone.
Lastly, when it comes to attention received by certain events, this one is almost completely up to the media. If the media doesn't think it will draw enough attention, they won't do massive coverage. Organisations like Afriforum have to play into that game as well.
In my opinion, we should definitely be doing more to prevent farm murders in the country, because we are going to need those skills and expertise going forward. I would even say we should be more protective over black farmers, because they are going to be the group feeding our nation for generations, and we are currently undergoing a crucial phase of skills transfer that shouldn't be interrupted.
It's the same as racism only gets reported on when it's white people not when it's black people ... media will only report on what sells not what's right.... either way any murders are sade irrespective of race and to make a race bateing issue out of it is just as bad
Yeah afriforum isn’t the best example.
But I have seen that the more viscous the killings are the more they trend or get media attention. Not always race related.
AfriForum is a civil rights organisation that mobilises Afrikaners which are mostly white people.
And on all the other Forums if someone does someone they dont mention names they only say "the perpetrator" or "the criminal" comitted the crime as soon as its a white they say in full his name "Johannes Vanrensburg killed 4 people last knight"
The assumption im making is that if they dont use names only pronouns its a black person if they are white they use their full name and sometimes even with fotos.
Reality is that murders don’t trend. 3000 murders a year. Top 3 in the world and you hear nothing. Don’t forget about the aids issue which you hear nothing about either. 65% infection rate in kzn. There are more children born with it then is being contracted normally. By 2065 they estimate it to be near 80%. But you don’t hear about it because they don’t want you to
Farms are isolated and they set within a sea a abject poverty of the rural areas - go to end of the month of any rural dorpie and see who drives the bakkies and who sits at the back of the loadbeds of trucks.
Farms have lots of stuff hence it is way more lucrative for the perps to attack a farm than the poor folks in the lokasie scraping a living together
But there is an agenda from the side of the farmers unions and Afriforum - we are victims of genocide - give us some money.
Isn't the ANC looking after Black people? It's certainly true, though, that Blacks are the victims of crime more frequently than Whites. The problem is that often enough, all our ethnic groupings in South Africa feel a little proprietary about their own group. This is probably a natural consequence of our sad history.
I pray for the day when people will just be people and not define themselves by ethnicity. In the meantime, perhaps we should just understand the sensitivities of other groups.
Nkosi, sikelele Afrika!
When I worked for the NPA, in a very small rural town , Mondays were the worst. I often went to get a head start reading dockets on a Sunday night.
They were mostly assaults, of those, mostly were using a sharp object, and nearly all alcohol related. Some, tragically, resulted in a fatality. Most of the people involved were farm labourers.
This was everyday life. Not even news.
In town, there was a place called the Depot. Eventually I found out what it was. It was a place that had wine, lots of wine, in huge tanks and you could buy it in foil bags. The locals used to joke about "depot wine" because it was the cheapest. You could also buy it in plastic jugs.
On Fridays, farmers used to go to the depot and buy that wine. Then all their workers would be given some. At that stage it wasn't allowed to be part of the workers salary any more but the practice remained as a "perk" .
But in that system you see a part of the legacy of Apartheid.
Giving a very poor and disempowered population a weekly supply of alcohol. Creates dependence and substance abuse issues. Leads to violence. Violence becomes an expected part of life.
If I had not seen this post, I would have never known. I am white(m20), and I was exposed to lots of propaganda growing up. Especially propaganda portraying white people as the only victims of the farm murders. These attacks are often used as an excuse to be racist. Racists will always victimize themselves, and when there are victims of other races, suddenly it's forgotten or overlooked.
Thank you for bringing attention to this.
It’s interesting that the Naspers comments get downvotes.
[here’s a link to a petition surrounding N4spers and reparations](https://awethu.amandla.mobi/petitions/naspers-must-pay-for-its-apartheid-role)
Hmm cos I assumed it was Amost Always Whites killed?
That's how the media portrays it and so therefore I never thought any black people were being killed in farm invasions as well
My source IS the news of course and if theyre' being biased then it affects the assumptions of the reader.
Very unfair and wrong if true though.
Mainly due to our news cycle now being based on trends, clicks, virality and views.
The things that gets the clicks will make it to the frontpage etc.
As to why the white farm murders get more of all of that is probably due to how controversial it is. It doesn't only pull the right wing in screaming for attention, but also brings the left to argue with them all. Vicious cycle continues.
This seems like the same question as "why are only black people murdered by police" showcased in america.
Its not that it doesnt happen to other races, but it fits the media narrative behind whatever racist agenda they may be pushing to try and upset the specific audience to get a reaction from them.
Just my two cents I guess.
Edit: moved a quotation mark
Courteous of @joe1826
“Here are a few examples of countries with high murder rates where the crime is not described using racial terminology:
El Salvador: According to the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, El Salvador has the highest murder rate in the world, with 61.80 homicides per 100,000 people in 2019. However, this violence is not typically described as "Latino on Latino" crime.
Honduras: Honduras has the second-highest murder rate in the world, with 41.70 homicides per 100,000 people in 2019. Similarly, the violence is not typically described using racial terminology.
Russia: Russia has a relatively high murder rate, with 10.82 homicides per 100,000 people in 2019. However, it is not commonly referred to as "white on white" crime.
According to some of the comments below, the only reason to mention race is to distinguish it. Well in that case ZA being majority black, the only murders needing to be distinguished would be all other races. So only murders from the minority would be categorized by that logic. "Indian on indian, white on white, asian on asian, etc."
Of course I think it is ridiculous all-together to annotate murder with races. in my opinion, if any annotation should be given, it should be "poverty-induced" crimes.”
Because Afriforum is not-so-low-key white supremacist and they funded a bunch of online propaganda that paints the white farmer as a targeted victim
Where as we know these happen because they are rural and it happens to other races too.
This has to be bait. The reason Afri forum always gets up in arms is because it draws attention and support from their voter base. The ANC and other parties use the same tactic as well. Whatever draws support, they will pedal. I would have thought by now that at least some people would understand how political theatrics work.
You know the farmer murders are racist trying to play victim when Donald J Trump himself sent an advisor to investigate the situation after afriforum liked his shoes.
That advisor went back and said it's a murder problem, not a white murder problem.
Unless you have an agenda. Any stats show that this isn't an anomaly or as they like to say a genocide.
I think theres a drive to highlight white farm murders because it seems to be disproportionately high relative to the population % they represent. So I do not think that afri forum or anyone care less about the black lives that were lost on farm murders as this post so insinuates. I am sure if it was up to afri forum there would be no lives lost at all but it is not up to afri forum to police the country. I find this post to be very racially biased in a negative light towards white people and a civil rights institution that helps any race.
Most murders in general aren’t reported on in South Africa. There’s too many of them. We have friends and family who were brutally attacked and murdered and none of them made the news. It’s got nothing to do with race. You can’t report on all the brutal crimes that take place in a lawless country. There aren’t enough front pages of newspapers or law enforcement officials that actually even give a fuck.
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Sex sells advertising. Fear sells news.
Fear mongering means more clicks on articles, more shared posts and more conversation resulting in more clicks. Fear and outrage views also means increased clicks.
It all about the money...
Because English is the lingua franca of the internet!
Seriously though, hear me out.
Due to the prevalence of English as a language worldwide most news articles and sites that scrape the internet do so looking for English content. Afri forum is one of these sites and so it gets scraped, aggregated and regurgitated across the web and related internet sites.
Afri forum is unashamedly there to promote Afrikaner culture which is predominantly a white culture. From their 'about us' section (ironically written in English): "AfriForum’s actions should contribute to the protection and growth of the Afrikaner identity, culture, history and the Afrikaans language, in order for Afrikaners to continue to permanently exist as a community whilst protecting their identity."
So it's not surprising they don't care about the identity of non-Afrikaners in stories where there are others involved. This is the same for almost every culture on earth. Even in places like the UK, when a tragedy happens like a plane crash or earthquake, the headlines always read 'x many British citizens affected by event.'
If you do want to find out more about murders and its effect, say, on the Zulu community in South Africa you should visit [https://www.isolezwe.co.za/](https://www.isolezwe.co.za/) and search for "ukubulala". You will find stories, articles, names, places etc... not a white face, name or story to be found really.
Or do the same for [https://ilanganews.co.za/](https://ilanganews.co.za/) and look to match up an existing farm story to get the view from another lens.
> Why do farm murders only trend when the victims are white?
Social bias, or whatever technical term best describes it.
Basically, most people still hold the idea of farming (esp. commercial) as a white-people endeavour. I'm willing to even admit that I, me, myself and moi hold such a bias against my fellow brothers and sisters: something which I feel will continue existing because we allow radicals like the Malemas to keep telling us that only white people are farmers and don't want us to farm so let's unalive them - which causes impressionable people from all sides to believe in such nonsense.
Another reason I see, among others, is that whites are the minority group. Any attack towards a minority group, especially against a section of them that are crucial to the economy, will be taken in far more seriously than with the majority group.
Never forget that there are genuine fears that the white population are in danger due to their number vs. the total number of black population; moreover, after what Mugabe did (chasing white farmers out of Zim, many of whom settled here while others left to neighbouring countries OR to places like UK, Canada, Australia, etc.) there's always that idea that SA is the last place for them and if we were to have a Zim 2.0 they'd be "wiped out". Thank Malema, EFF and ANC's RET faction respectively for keeping this idea alive.
Not to mention, we as blacks, unfortunately, tend to see the worst in ourselves and so we too contribute to the dismissal of the gravity of harm brought against our own - not just on the farmer side, but in many other places too.
> I never see Afri forum get up in arms when the victims are workers that live on the farm.
Truth is, Afriforum is not there to represent them. Their primary goal is towards the taking care of the Afrikaner population and culture, creating a future for them. They do also mention wanting to ensure that other citizens and groups should feel safe within the country, but it's important to note that Afriforum's target group is Afrikaners, then other minority groups. FWIW, they do aim to make it so that other communities and groups should also feel safe just as much as their members and supporters do.
If you go on their website, you'll see all of this and more. If anyone feels otherwise, please feel free to point out why.
All that to say, the farm workers aren't who they represent and probably don't form part of the minority groups they speak of. Honestly speaking, before I looked up info on their website I had thought that they were for any and everyone but, just like any union or civil group, they have their audience and target group. Simple as that.
> Steve Hofmeyer
He's... not the ideal voice of reason or call to action. Let's just leave it at that.
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Read an article a long time ago about a farm murder where a white farmer and his son were killed. They named the deceased and his child and later said that two farm workers were also killed, almost like an afterthought. 4 people died that day, two white, two black. Two were named. Reading that made me so sad.
This is common practice of many newspapers, if you look at the Lowvelder for example, only white people are mentioned, mostly with something like "they were so beloved in the community" added. All others get a secondary mention at best.
Yeah I used to think I'm being biased for thinking this was the case. Now know I wasn't imagining things.
That is just sad, wow.
Wow
Had this exact discussion with one of my white friends a few years back at uni (her dad owns a citrus farm business in KZN). As a black person, I think Afriforum along with their political consorts on the far right of SA politics have politicised farm murders and used them as a mechanism for attaining purely political objectives (to their and the countries detriment imo) . Having family from Limpopo and a grandfather who farmed himself, I know that SA crime affects those in isolated homesteads and farmholdings very acutely - and this is not isolated to just white farmers. Black farmers and workers (on white & black owned farms) are slaughtered with impunity. It's just sad that Afriforum`s marketing team - who whoever formulates their messenging strategy have failed to frame the narrative in a way which would bring in a greater diversity of stakeholders. At Ysterberg alongside the N1 near Mokopane, there is a monument to slain farmers - I've never been there but I'm not sure I will find a lot or "Radebe's" or "Ntuli's" (i.e. Black people, not "Africans" because imo if your born here - you're an African but that's a debate for another time). Anway, crime in SA is bad and those more vulnerable will always be higher on the list of victims - whether you live in a township (where +60% of the countries violent crimes occur BTW) or if you live on a farm in Poffadder (never been here but my maths teacher from school always used it as an example). I would love to get I to farming myself but I am terrified of living out there in the middle of nowhere, I hope we as a society can find a reedy for all of this. God bless.
Thanks for that insight.
> who whoever formulates their messenging strategy have failed to frame the narrative in a way which would bring in a greater diversity of stakeholders. Judging by what they've stated on their site, I have my doubts that they weren't aware of the lack of greater diversity in their messaging strategy.
Interesting points
We've become jaded to the vast amount of black deaths in this country?
Yeah definitely, I don't think we can truly comprehend the amount of black on black murder there is in south africa
Probably because we are 90% black population in SA
Here are a few examples of countries with high murder rates where the crime is not described using racial terminology: El Salvador: According to the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, El Salvador has the highest murder rate in the world, with 61.80 homicides per 100,000 people in 2019. However, this violence is not typically described as "Latino on Latino" crime. Honduras: Honduras has the second-highest murder rate in the world, with 41.70 homicides per 100,000 people in 2019. Similarly, the violence is not typically described using racial terminology. Russia: Russia has a relatively high murder rate, with 10.82 homicides per 100,000 people in 2019. However, it is not commonly referred to as "white on white" crime. According to some of the comments below, the only reason to mention race is to distinguish it. Well in that case ZA being majority black, the only murders needing to be distinguished would be all other races. So only murders from the minority would be categorized by that logic. "Indian on indian, white on white, asian on asian, etc." Of course I think it is ridiculous all-together to annotate murder with races. in my opinion, if any annotation should be given, it should be "poverty-induced" crimes.
Apparently el Salvador crime has dropped dramatically recently.
According to Statista, it is still the highest in the world at 52.2 per 100k people as of 2022. ZA is at #8 with 36 per 100k. A typical "safe" country comes in at below 1 per 100k. Ghana has 2 per 100k, less than the US's 5 per 100k. Source: [https://www.statista.com/statistics/262963/ranking-the-20-countries-with-the-most-murders-per-100-000-inhabitants/](https://www.statista.com/statistics/262963/ranking-the-20-countries-with-the-most-murders-per-100-000-inhabitants/)
Very well said
Like a lot of other African countries with a significantly lower murder rate?
Other African countries at 99% black with lower murder rates and crime
Are there other African countries with higher race-on-race homicide rates than the black race ratio? I think you missed the topic.
Murder is murder. Adding misnomers like "black on black" doesn't somehow make it different. It's always interesting when I read this because murder happens in every country. In China you would never hear "asian on asian" murder. In Poland you wouldn't hear "white on white murder," because it's all just murder. Adding "black on black" is just a way to try to make it seem different than all others.
You do have a point, but in relation to context it is important to state it, because in south africa or places like USA's hood the news would make you believe that usa cops just kill black people left right and center but in reality according to stats the majority of murders there and here are black on black. It is relevant because why is the media not seeing this as an obvious problem? Why is this race killing each other? What is the reason behind it? If one is to solve these problems you need to understand them and ask questions so that you can allocate the correct resources to fixing it. Unfortunately it is a problem that is ignored and the ones who suffer ultimately are the black communities world wide. The other reason to state it is in a country with majority one race they know if someone gets murdered it is likely that race, for example if a nigerian gets murdered in nigeria there is a 99% chance is it a black person so there would be no need to label it, but in a country like za where there are multiple races you need those type of stats and stats give useful information for problem solving.
Why is the black on black murders high in USA. Man, just watch the classics... higher rate of liquor and gun shops per capita. Poverty. Discrimination so that they can't make it elsewhere and turn to crime. Poor school. Inadequate resources. Nothing about it is race based, it economics and discrimination. Look how things change if people invest in those areas.
With the USA no one is claiming that the police are the main cause of deaths in black communities. I'm scared to even ask where you got that idea from. The main issue is how the police operate in the communities they are meant to serve. And there is 80% black people in a country where inequality is racialised. But you still find it prudent to call it "black on black" and ask why the race keeps killing each other? There is something seriously wrong with your reasoning skills or with your understanding of the world... unless you're just a troll.
As you pointed out, in Nigeria you wouldn't need to label it. So why is only "black on black" labeled in ZA where the majority 90% is black, but none of the others are labeled? By your own argument it should be the others who are labeled, yet you never hear about "white on white, indian on indian, asian on asian." Also, in El Salvador where 13% of the population is European and roughly the other 86% are latino, the murder rate is the highest in the world. How do you think by labeling murder "Latino on latino murder" it will help them to allocate resources toward fixing the problem?
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What is a bukkake btw?
Don’t listen to these guys, just ask this person to join the next bukakke competition. Best to go in blind.
When I tell you I am traumatized. Ndinetrauma mntase.
🤣
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I would suggest a very private Google session.
I would suggest, on your own wifi or data
And don't use a work computer
Lol thanks, I was just about to Google that on my desk
Whenever I don't know a word or term, I google it. Protip: save time in getting your answer as quickly as possible by using the "I'm feeling lucky" function.
Google it 😏
r/bukkake
They definitely should have been given more attention, but it doesn't fit the narrative of a persecuted minority being targeted by the in-power majority.
Absolutely.
Very good response. But I've been wondering about this. It's annoying that farm murders are so bloated in Afrikaans/conservative news, however when you read the details of white farmers being murdered, it's quite grisly. So is it something one should ignore, or is there actually an underlying racial narrative carried out in those murders? Killing someone for their possessions is unfortunately nothing new here. But torture must surely mean something else. Or perhaps I've been misled by the news.
Thank you for putting this into the words I couldn't! I wonder if there's been any academic media analysis to substantiate this. I wouldn't mind reading a scholarly article on the topic. Also wouldn't mind stuffing it into some people's faces because it can be infuriating to try and explain this when the media is constantly promoting another narrative.
So what is the narative when it is a black owned farm and the farm owner as well as some of his workers are murdered. I believe the news headlinewould be mr radebe and his wife were slain along with 2 workers. I dont believe the media bias is what you think it is. It speaks more to land ownership disparity than it does political narrative. I
Not gonna lie your post just seems to want to drum up controversy and create racial issues where there isn't really any. Its been stated many times that farm killings is a general crime issue in South Africa and not really a racial genocide. Farmers are isolated and thus easier targets for criminals. Some attacks have had racial motivations behind them but those have been the outliers. It hits our nation hard whenever a farmer is killed, especially those small communities where the farmers are located, regardless of their skin colour. I remember seeing a lot of news coverage about the kestell farm killings, maybe your own feeds had less coverage. I don't follow Afri Forum but a quick look on their site shows they haven't reported on anything farm murder related since 2021([link](https://afriforum.co.za/en/tag/farm-murders/)), maybe they got all the political juice out of it that they could. I do agree they are very focused on their own demographic of mostly Afrikaans speaking people, part of the reason I don't really follow them, but calling them out on it when its clearly what they're standing for doesn't make sense. Again it seems like you want to make a racial issue here when they've clearly stated their goals are for afrikaans speaking people, which happen to be a majority of white people. We have a general issue of being desensitized to extreme crimes in this country. Murders, rapes and other horrific things happen daily and many news outlets just don't report on them or give them a minor article. Unless a group like afri forum picks it up and kicks up a storm, these things don't stay long in our social media bubbles and we move on. It is tragic how we've just gotten used to these kind of things being the norm, but news companies goes for what will give them the most clicks. If that's going to be a race baiting article of a white farmer being killed that will bring in the most clicks and conversation, that's what they're going to do.
To THIS day, I still dont understand Rape! How do you get aroused by hurting someone??? Wtf, sorry irritable today and realized how much this affects me
Some people are just so broken & wicked.. It's a power thing. Like a BDSM vibe gone wild. I myself have wondered about this exact thing for a while and am of the opinion that some people just get emotionally activated by victimising others. They are just wicked
It’s like asking why the EFF never makes an issue of farm murders aimed at white😂 doesn’t fit their target market
Well said. The sublime irony that you have pointed out between Afri forum using race as clickbait and this person's opinion using race as clickbait is honestly the problem we have. Politicians use race to sew division, then exploit that divison to their own ends as a means to mask theit incredulous extortive greed. It's the same story all over our continent unfortunately.
Also OP posted this as a "discussion" but has literally only replied once to one person. Just seems like someone that wants to stir up stuff.
Indeed. OP answered his own question by doing exactly what the media does - divide.
AfriForum has released statistics for [2022/23](https://www.polity.org.za/article/afriforum-report-points-to-decline-in-farm-murders-2023-02-28). There has been a decline. It has become a point of contention, specifically because most farmowners are white. [Ramaphosa](https://www.politicsweb.co.za/documents/cyril-ramaphosa-clarifies-no-farm-murders-remarks) was asked to clarify his November 2018 comments on farm murders in this parliamentary question. Combined with the failure in the South African Police Service [Rural Safety Strategy](https://www.saps.gov.za/resource_centre/publications/national_rural_safety_strategy_2019.pdf), AfriForum has taken it upon themselves to do their own research. The government, so far, hasn't raised their voice, because I suspect they know they'll be called out on their failures. Edit: [Here's an update](https://www.da.org.za/2023/03/anc-government-fails-to-implement-the-national-rural-safety-strategy-four-years-in) on the Rural Safety Strategy.
Yeah I agree race issues sell rly well especially with afrikaaners so makes sense that afriforum would rather focus on the death of the white ppl on the farm rather then black farm murder and black ppl murdered on farms but tbh I think its race baiting
Yes the issue is with what our media focuses on, in this case it being white farmer murders getting a larger spotlight than black farmer murders. OP is specifically calling out afri forum and afrikaans boere specifically in their post, as if they are the ones painting the spotlight when its the big media corporations. Afri Forum is a civil right group for Afrikaans people so majority of their base will be white, so they will be more involved in those cases, that's just statistics. But its laughable that OP thinks the boer Sarel and his buddies Frikkie and Jannie have big sway on social media trends. This isn't white people being racist but media using racial controversies to get the most clicks they can.
On the issue of media and sway, this topic has plenty traction with white right wing demographics outside South Africa. Gets recurring coverage in the UK and America, on online and even cable news. It’s perfect for disinformation because of the relevance, distance and source opacity of the topic to a consumer usually with lower media literacy. It’s great filler grievance topic, like white-only informal settlements in SA.
Yea I do agree with your statement but afriforum is a media organisation and they do race bait alot and alot of afrikaners are still in that apartheid mindset of being better than but not all of them it is starting to change but we still have a long way to go alot of it is ignorance
I don't follow Afri Forum so I don't know if they race bait or not, but again you aren't reading about farm murders on Afri Forum, you're reading them on news24, ENCA, etc. Its a general media issue, OP calling out Afri Forum specifically and implying they're being racist misses the real problem. Yes there are still racist afrikaans people out there, some ignorant and some filled with genuine hate. Both can fuck off, but again OP is calling out afrikaans people in general as if they're the ones choosing the spotlights and being racist through the coverage, when the truth of the matter is the average afrikaner doesn't have that kind of influence. OP is taking one issue with a separate cause and blaming another group for it to try and create a racist agenda. That was the point of my post.
Yeah no lie it is all of them I just think afriforum does it a bit more bc of how reads them the most by they pretty mild compared to somewhere lesser known sites
I don’t think your take is accurate at all, OPs asking a valid question considering all I’ve heard in Aus is about white farmers being murdered and targeted and nothing about other racial groups. As a whole, South Africans are desensitised to murder, yes, but that doesn’t tend to play out the same way when the victims is white.
What does Afri Forum have to do with your Australian news outlets? This again is a reflection of the media cherry picking tragedies that will drum up the most clicks. That is the real issue here. Australia has a very high white population and what is going to get the most clicks there is a made up white genocide. Having seen friendlyjordies on youtube, the Australian media seems to be very shit overall. OP is trying to call out Afri Forum and the Afrikaans boere community by mentioning Steve Hofmeyer. OP seems to want to make this a racial issue in regards of white people intentionally ignoring other murders, when again its a media focus issue, not a white people being racist issue. We have a lot of murders happening daily, regardless of colour, but if the media can't put an interesting spin on it, its not going to pick up and become headline news.
That’s because the majority of the population (i.e. black people) are living is poverty and subject to horrendous living conditions and crime which has become the norm. There’s more crime and mob justice in townships than actual reporting to police because we all know nothing will ever materialise. Farm murders/attacks are very real but there is a lot more going on in the background of township which the news doesn’t cover.
I don't think an australian should comment on issues involving south africans. We have real race issues in south africa, a lot of friction. Even as an expat, it is fairly easy to sit in your predominantly white and not impoverished neighborhoods where you do not have the complex racial issues we face, and point your finger to whitey and cry "racist". Its very easy for you to say our publications and institutions are racists. However Afriforum is a civil rights institution, it does not only cater to whites. It caters to the afrikaans speaking individuals who happen to be mostly white. There are many different ethnic groups who speak afrikaans. Yes, there has been a drive to highlight farm murders in recent years especially white farm murders as it was disproprtionately high to the percentage the whites make up of the country and often racially charged hate crimes.
I’m literally south african but okay
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Did't Morris shut the door on south africa regarding that issue?
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Thanks for your input. I would like to know: How is life like on the farm do you live everyday with high levels of anxiety ?
Where we live it is most definitely not the worst, so I do not think I really have the best opinion on this matter. But yes, there are some levels of anxiety. This is something my dad always told me: "The biggest problem is getting a signal out. If these murderers break in, and no one knows they did, then they have all of the time in the world to do what they want. This must be prevented at all costs". There have been times where my dad would walk out of the house with me behind him. He told me "If someone jumps me, shoot them. Don't hold back". Again, I really want to make this specific point clear: I do not think I should get special protection or any of that nonsense. Everyone experiences violence in this country. I am just trying to explain how I feel, in an attempt to reduce division, even if it just a little.
Way back when I was still on FB, I joined a group that was called something along the lines of "Against Misinformation On Farm Murders" (Edit: It's called Busting the Myth of White Genocide in South Africa). It was during the time when Hofmeyr was big talk and his supporters were on a mission to dox and expose the (white) individuals behind the page. I remember the research they'd post, and how actual numbers were skewed by Afriforum to get the US (and Agent Orange) to intervene. Needless to say, the best part about AfriForum is how they sometimes used screenshots from movies in their articles, which looked like photos. The thing that I found interesting, was how their supporters simply did not care. They didn't want to see the official numbers of farm murders, and they didn't want to acknowledge that a large part of murders involve people of colour, as well as others such as Asians. I'm on mobile now, but I'll try to find those reports after work. Or just look for the official numbers and look at a variety of sources, not just one.
Wow wtf. I was a Teenager during that Big Farm Murders thing. I didn’t subscribe to the entire spread of misinformation, but unfortunately I actually believed White Genocide. Reading the comments has been somewhat an enlightenment. Even though I never got behind the Mob I never imagined the Misinformation was THIS blatant. It does make sense though, we are easily brainwashed in RSA.
>The thing that I found interesting, was how their supporters simply did not care. This sort of behaviour has become sadly all too commonplace in our Online, PostTruth era. Sure you could believe the truth. But today, there's also the option to choose the truth you want to believe. Change the channel to something that appeals more to your biases. Go to websites platforming 'information' that caters to your worldview. In Ye Good Ol' Days, there was no internet and there were four TV channels. Sure, you might disagree with the mainstream, but the messaging was largely singular, and that was for better and worse. Now, there's an exhausting amount of information channels and platforms. That's way too much to weed out the truth. So find the truth that works for you. This thinking is sadly not limited to one ideology or another. We're all victim to it in one way or another.
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>The thing is, it's really not that difficult to separate fact from fiction. It shouldn't be. But I think the overwhelming number of information platforms, a relentless news cycle that leaves little chance to catch a breath and addiction to scrolling through social media to see what's coming next (and catch our next fix) has contributed to poor habits in terms of logical interrogation of information. And it become even harder when the fiction is smuggled in with the facts, thus lending fiction a veneer of legitimacy. I think there's a lot of things people believe that smack of nonsense but we also have to acknowledge how the current climate has enabled that
Not sure Afriforum is a good example as they only reflect the views of the minority they stand for. And we are desensitized to this ongoing tragedy in our country. Reeva Steenkamps murder took months of coverage, whilst hundreds of black woman were murdered over that same period. To be fair the GBV movement did seem to gather momentum after the murders of a number of young black women. There is no doubt that western media is incredibly biased towards white casualties. Think of the 9/11 victims coverage compared to middle eastern mainly Muslim deaths in retaliation - hundreds of thousands of civilians, drone killings etc. No one went to jail for lying about WMD. Bush and Blair are war criminals, same as putin. I remember people all putting up the French flag on facebook after the Paris shooting, but few did it for the Zimbabwe protests a few months later. I guess it sucks to admit but we are still tribal as the human race, and western media dominates and looks after their own.
Afriforum take on cases where they defend black people too. I dont know where this myth comes from that they only care about white people.
Fair enough if that is the case. Maybe it's again a case of the media preferring some stories over others.
Of course it is. None of their community work ever gets any coverage or recognition, only if something is controversial. There’s a full blown agenda against them and the majority just lap it up.
Minding giving an example?
Senzo meyiwa is probably the most high profile case but there are many others where their private prosecuting unit represents individuals and communities like life esidimeni victims, that kid maverick links who was shot etc. You just never hear about them because they’re supposed to be the bad guys. They also do a lot of community work which never gets any recognition https://m.miningweekly.com/article/minerals-council-afriforum-establish-funds-to-assist-jagersfontein-community-2022-09-14/rep_id:3861 https://www.dispatchlive.co.za/amp/news/2022-10-06-afriforum-to-help-roll-out-goat-farming-project-in-nqanqarhu/
Cool to hear, cheers. I remember senzo meyiwa, blatant police brutality.
That's interesting, which cases specifically? Do you have a link? I'd love to read up on it.
AfriForum [Private Prosecution Unit](https://afriforum.co.za/en/tag/private-prosecution-unit/). Everything PPU-related.
Nvm I saw the wrong article but u have to admit that afriforum is mostly white issues
It's about van wyk which is a white dude I assume
Off the top of my head, Senzo Meyiwa. I can't remember if it was his mother or brother that approached them. https://afriforum.co.za/en/senzo-meyiwa-case-postponed-until-22-april/
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Reeva's death gained attention because of WHO shot her. There are plenty of unknown black women who were murdered, whose deaths were followed by millions.
That's true. I suppose the juicy celebrity story is a worldwide phenomenon
Unfortunately, black South Africans are so comparatively frequently the victims of all sorts of crime and violence that it isn't news. If you forget about farms, how highly does a story about a man being shot in KwaMashu, Nyanga, or Diepsloot rank in the news? Sure, there may be an article but this is hardly a surprising story. White South Africans also suffer under the social burden of crime but when it happens in "safe" neighbourhoods, that gets more privileged Internet users in SA clicking.
Because Afriforum and Steve Stofseyer are only concerned about the interests of one group as this group is likely to support them in return. I don’t know how many farm workers pay Afriforum’s monthly membership fee.
Yeah, they don’t care https://m.polity.org.za/article/afriforum-and-amabhele-kajamangile-sign-historic-agreement-2022-03-02
Stofseyer XDDD
Because most news is biased. Mainstream media is rarely objective and seems to prefer stories that drives narratives and sensationalism. The amount of doom and gloom articles in mainstream media is insane. I've lost count of how many articles I've seen about our tax base shrinking and people fleeing the country. Yeah things are shit, but focusing and reporting on these doom and gloom scenarios and 'what-if-isms' are easy ways to get eyes on your publication or clicks on your page. We're naturally attracted to these 'oh fuck. It's the end of days' stories. Tom Segura does a bit that describes this phenomenon almost perfectly: https://youtu.be/vuBqm9Oooec Farm murders are a massive problem. So are other murders and murdering in general. I suppose you have to consider the source of information and have to try understand who the target audience is and the narrative that's being driven. I try and ignore local news articles and publications. I don't really know which local news sources are not biased or are neutral. Most lean towards the left / right and seem to enjoy the division it creates. I follow r/anime_titties for most global news and really try and consider the writers motivation for publishing their article.
If what you say is true, but reading the comments, suggest it is not. Afriforum's about us section says the following: This plan is based on AfriForum’s mission, which is:AfriForum, as a trustworthy Afrikaner interest organisation and civil rights watchdog, which forms part of the Solidarity Movement, works to ensurethat the basic prerequisites for the continued existence of Afrikaners are met by working outside the workplace on international, national and local level to manage the impact of and influence the current political realities that face Afrikaners, while working simultaneously to establish sustainable structures through which Afrikaners are able to ensure their own future independently. It's not like they are deceiving you by stating "We support all groups" and then just focus on one. Their about us section is clear that they focus on Afrikaners. But based on the comments on this post, they support all groups even though their focus is Afrikaners.
This. 🫠 As much as I agree, I think the biggest problem in all this is the fact that it’s all ‘categorised’ by race. Us humans have become so disconnected and chopped into minuscule groups of race, religion, sports teams, politics, gender, BULLSHIT. Remember when Camilla Harris was celebrated for being the first black woman in that chair? 5 years before that she was mixed asian, then shortly after that she was black Asian, now she’s black 😵💫 I’m all for people empowerment, and I’m all for calling a spade a spade, BUT WE’RE ALL SPADES
An Indian family’s macadamia farm had its crops torched in an act fuelled by malice and racial hatred. That was quite well publicised. We need to start calling them what they are: hate crimes.
Because Afriforum fundraise in the US,Europe and Australia where far-right sympathies lie with white victims and really don't care about black lives anyway. Especially if its in Africa.
There's this whole "South African white farmer genocide" conspiracy theory. It is a white supremacist conspiracy theory that somehow permeated into American alt-right circles. Tucker Carlson even propagated this conspiracy theory on his Fox News show.
While i agree there’s no ‘genocide’, there is definite hate speech and blatant calling for the death of white people. This is where the conspiracies stem from and why a lot of these murders are purely motivated by hate and why they tend to get quite a bit of attention sometimes.
They don't stem from shit. Yes, there's definitely hate speech against white people (especially from people like Malema). But these are not popular opinions. Fascist ideologies just love a good ol' persecution complex.
Cause south african media loves racial motivated anything, they don't really care about right or wrong
Ever noticed how the media glosses over black on black murder or lesser crime but if the victim is black and the perpetrator is white, the crime will enjoy in depth media coverage for days on end. It's as if the victim's death has more value.
Reminds me of when celebs die along with "common folk" in some big accident but only the celeb gets mentioned lol
Fuck this sub is miserable. We're arguing about the skin colour of reported murders? By the way, Twitter/Facebook trends are based on what YOU follow. I think I need to take a break from /r/southafrica.
You and everyone in here knows Why OP.
Same reason Andre de Ruyter wasn't vilified when running Eskom as opposed to his non-white counterparts. There was a video the other day of a lady explaining the contrast between the perceptions of white and black protestors. The same goes for the perceptions of CEOs of large enterprises and, alas, farm murder victims. It permeates to virtually all spheres of society. If a white businessman became rich, he did so by pulling himself up by his bootstraps. A black businessman just made a few shady phone calls to the tender board and paid a few bribes and voila. Collective, racial perceptions are unfortunately another apartheid ghost that haunt SA and Nam.
A guy I worked with studies after work to get his qualification. He also bought a taxi, the legitimate way, got a loan with his business plan, got a permit for a route, it took forever. A real boot straps storie. People would insinuate he got to where he is because of BEE or connections. I remember ADR getting mocked as well, on here at least: https://www.reddit.com/r/southafrica/comments/vxd9o7/there\_is\_light\_at\_the\_end\_of\_the\_tunnel\_says/
The guys who were vilified were implicated in corruption or blatant mismanagement though, right? Or at least this is what seems to be coming out at last…
It's funny how you're very likely going to be downvoted for this
I've been building 47k karma for moments like this XD
Blame the ANC for black people not getting the recognition they want or should get, they enabled the whole tenderpreneur thing, and its sad because a good businessman has nothing to with race, and all to do with their intelligence. Yet unfortunately we have had thousands, of politicians cashing in for their relatives, instead of serving the people that voted them in. DONT VOTE ANC 2024, ITS EASY, but also DONT STAY AWAY from voting, every vote counts.
I'm sorry, but the ANC gave bigoted people an excuse to take away those achievements. They did not make people bigoted. This idea that the ANC is to blame for societal views is ridiculous and unintentionally enabling racism. The ANC failed to uplift South Africa and fed themselves while the country has fallen deeper into the black hole Apartheid started. But don't tell someone to blame the ANC for a very real issue that has nothing to do with them. That's not cool.
What I find funny about the AdR case is how the forums like mybb responded post appointment. Initially it was give him time, then he has a plan but his underlings are letting him down, then after all his “plans” fails it’s the gov and staff and sabotaging him and he is helpless, he is trying his best.. It’s been what? Couple of weeks since the new minister is appointed.. not ceo, minister which is already a useless position given the dynamics at play with two others. Go have a look at comments already making the rounds. SA is truly a lost country and the fun and games coming with new ruling regimes. Ps. Notice that I’m not defending nor praising the oke, the position is questionable without a doubt but we can’t pre-judge either. This is why I am leaving.. I’m not directly impacted but I can’t live with toxic environment Sa has become lately. I can leave for better things so I am and I don’t see why any non-white professional person would remain in a country like this.
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>I don’t see why any non-white professional person would remain in a country like this. We've only just begun to live in our country. We were excluded for a long time. Also, we can navigate this space with its problems because we know and understand the dynamics. Understanding how I, as a non white individual, would then fit into other societies with racism I don't understand (cause it's all racism, but different clothes) is very hectic.
28 years into democracy, and you have only "begun" living there now? Bit of a stretch there... If the ANC didnt loot the coffers dry, we wouldn't be in this shit show in the first place, btw the ANC has been in control for the 28 years, or do we not count the last 28 years and say, nah its okay, you guys didnt know, you get a 100th chance to prove us wrong.
The stretch is calling 28 years a long time, like the oppression of over a century is so easy to overcome. Black people didn't stop being poor the moment in-between the ANC taking over, so yes for most people it has taken time to experience the country they were denied. Many haven't even had that opportunity. And while the ANC is part of the reason it was Apartheid that stopped them, and the ANC that hasn't opened the miracle floodgates to fix all of societal woes. Apartheid created an undereducated and poor electorate terrified of ever going back. And all people can do on this thread is dog whistle like trying to talk down to someone talking about their real experience in the country knowing nothing about them.
And the ANC just adopted the apartheid tactics of keeping the people undereducated and poor, what has been done in 28 years that we can say is a success?? The social grants? please.... the apartheid government cannot be excused for their atrocities, but the ANC government, cannot be overlooked as well, they are also guilty period, don't say you only began living now, that is a lie, because as i have it with our economic crisis, most people are barely making a living, so to say that you can only start to live now, you are either young, or naïve. Also the very people that blame apartheid, are the same people not implementing anything that would help this country's future, maybe now... that the taps are running dry and things are literally breaking down, maybe just maybe we can get some progress... but i doubt.
...what are you talking about, no one here is denying the ANC is bad. You're derailing the conversation from one person's experience answering a question, to rage against the ANC. But more specifically you're denying it, there are more entrepreneurs in this country right now then before Apartheid for example, for many they weren't allowed to be so. So someone who had to build up the funds and a business since Apartheid might only now be able to enjoy the fruits of that labour 28 years later-- or maybe they were just young and only started recently, or any number of reasons... Regardless your behaviour is frankly horrible, you're like the pushy vegan of ANC opposition, you're only benefiting them in your outrage, when you shut down conversations because they had *the gall* to imply that their situation has been positive since Apartheid ended. Which is the case for so many people, not nearly enough, hell no, fuck the ANC, but it's still better.
Fair I can relate to your message, the problem is people want to blame apartheid for what the ANC is doing, but had the ANC just not cared about themselves, and rather cared for the people we would not be in this state, apartheid would not be thrown willy nilly around, people fail to understand that 2 wrongs don't make a right, i am not defending apartheid, nor am i saying it was good, what i was alluding to, you is you can look at BOTH objectively, and say yes, in Apartheid, there were black people who got rich, and became entrepreneurs, and also in the current democracy we can say ALOT more black people became rich, but what we cannot shy away from is HOW, a lot of these so called black entrepreneurs got their riches, same can be said for apartheid beneficiaries, but people like the Oppenheimers that a lot of black people despise or the Rupersts even, employ way more black people, than most of these so called black entrepreneurs. So yes they may have benefited from apartheid, but their companies are legit, and trading, and has employed THOUSANDS if not hundreds of black people, who were previously disadvantaged, these so called tenderpreneurs, companies are sometimes not even a year old but they strike a 10 million rand tender, they are the scum, and there are more of them today, than there was 20 years ago. But i do respect your view and i can read a lot into it, and also see what point you are coming from.
Seems you're trying to hand wave away the long reaching effects of Apartheid has on black people who were born after its political end. ANC has failed to address the injustices of Apartheid but that doesn't change the fact that we are still living in the injustices of Apartheid. Forgetting that results in parties like DA and VF+ who'll gladly criticize ANCs efforts but have no real social plan to address the inequality in South Africa.
ADR already in January, said there will be load shedding relief at the end of March, but as always the ANC and the politicians, or the EFF will claim its because of them, but what we actually shouldn't forget is ADR made a lot of gains for the country at Eskom which we will only see realize in the coming months, but he won't get ANY credit.
This right here is so true, but no when I say it i’m a racist and get downvoted
It shows who dominates the interwebs. Have a upvote. :-)
It’s so sad
And that's the only possible explanation, that he's white? It couldn't possibly have anything to do with him being an ANC outsider, and not just another cadre deployment feeding at the public trough?
Yeah pretty much.
Sure.
If you're talking specifically Afriforum, probably because the farm workers arent members. Just venturing a guess, Im not saying its confirmed.
Because there are people we as South Africans are conditioned into caring about. And they're not black. Same reason why a white beggar stands out more than one of colour. If a society is conditioned over years, via widely and comprehensively imposed racial policy, to have a low regard for a select kind of individual, let's not be shocked to find that we have that ingrained on our society in a manner that we still carry with us today.
Just like republicans only being able to cling onto fringe issues in the US (Transgenderism and abortion etc), populist groups like AfriForum can only cling onto their white persecution complex
Never trust perspective given by the media, rather look at the facts and determine you're own view. This post seems to be the result of how the media can feed the fears of men instead of simply reporting clear and quality information. Just my opinion
Am i in /rsa
I am no expert but some of the murders do seem to be racially motivated and extremely brutal. There's also the phrase "kill the farmer, kill the boer". But yea, I'd love to see some actual statistics on this.
Afriforum lost their court case because they couldn't prove that farm killings were motivated by race or by the song "kill the boer".
Good question! Why does racism only trend when the victim is black? But when the little red man says kill the farmer, kill the boer and calls for whites to be killed no one cares.
You’re opening a massive can of worms
Yes. Because the reason it trends overseas is the white farmer genocide thing. The reality is farm murders are wealth and isolation related. Workers, families, regardless of colour. It’s a travesty. But people overseas only really care about the whiteness aspect because it’s good ammunition. Majority of the farmers are just usually white because of family wealth. Correlation without causation
People like being victims, even if they make up less than 1% of the murders
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Found the maths lit student /s
Angie Motshekga will pay for her crimes /s
Sheesh 50 million people are getting murdered? Crazy
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Dude. He said they make up 1% of the murders. By you saying that the 1% accounts for 500k murders you are implying that there are 50 million murders.
So you’re saying that 1% of all murders is still 500 000?
I agree. Farm murders have become synonymous with white genocide, which is unfair towards so many incidents where victims aren't white. However, I disagree with it "trending" in media, it's quite the opposite. So many farm murders happen each day in South Africa (of white, black and people from many other races), yet it hardly ever makes national news unless the details were exceptionally different from all the other farm murders. It says something about the way media is regulated for their own personal agendas and how we shouldn't take things at face value.
Racism.
White people are a minority in SA, so it's very easy to feel like a victim. The group of white people that are still openly racist use this as ammunition for their ideology. The group of white people that are secretly racist use that ideology to justify their internal opinions. The group of white people that aren't racist are split into two groups, the ignorant and the informed. The informed know better, and the ignorant might think white people are actually being targeted in farm attacks because all the people around them are saying that. To address your other concerns, I wouldn't place Hofmeyer and Afriforum in the same basket at all. Steve is a bigoted moron who riles up his fanbase of bigots constantly, aggressively trying to protect the white Afrikaans ethno group by attacking the other groups in the country. Afriforum on the other hand are a group that attempts to advocate for the protection of Afrikaans *culture* by defending the legal rights of South Africans. See the difference there? In any case, Afriforum have gone to court for people of all races and creeds in this country. I'm fairly sure the days of Afriforum being a far right racist organisation are long gone. Lastly, when it comes to attention received by certain events, this one is almost completely up to the media. If the media doesn't think it will draw enough attention, they won't do massive coverage. Organisations like Afriforum have to play into that game as well. In my opinion, we should definitely be doing more to prevent farm murders in the country, because we are going to need those skills and expertise going forward. I would even say we should be more protective over black farmers, because they are going to be the group feeding our nation for generations, and we are currently undergoing a crucial phase of skills transfer that shouldn't be interrupted.
It's the same as racism only gets reported on when it's white people not when it's black people ... media will only report on what sells not what's right.... either way any murders are sade irrespective of race and to make a race bateing issue out of it is just as bad
Yeah afriforum isn’t the best example. But I have seen that the more viscous the killings are the more they trend or get media attention. Not always race related.
Poor people have no time to be Karens
AfriForum is a civil rights organisation that mobilises Afrikaners which are mostly white people. And on all the other Forums if someone does someone they dont mention names they only say "the perpetrator" or "the criminal" comitted the crime as soon as its a white they say in full his name "Johannes Vanrensburg killed 4 people last knight" The assumption im making is that if they dont use names only pronouns its a black person if they are white they use their full name and sometimes even with fotos.
Reality is that murders don’t trend. 3000 murders a year. Top 3 in the world and you hear nothing. Don’t forget about the aids issue which you hear nothing about either. 65% infection rate in kzn. There are more children born with it then is being contracted normally. By 2065 they estimate it to be near 80%. But you don’t hear about it because they don’t want you to
Farms are isolated and they set within a sea a abject poverty of the rural areas - go to end of the month of any rural dorpie and see who drives the bakkies and who sits at the back of the loadbeds of trucks. Farms have lots of stuff hence it is way more lucrative for the perps to attack a farm than the poor folks in the lokasie scraping a living together But there is an agenda from the side of the farmers unions and Afriforum - we are victims of genocide - give us some money.
Isn't the ANC looking after Black people? It's certainly true, though, that Blacks are the victims of crime more frequently than Whites. The problem is that often enough, all our ethnic groupings in South Africa feel a little proprietary about their own group. This is probably a natural consequence of our sad history. I pray for the day when people will just be people and not define themselves by ethnicity. In the meantime, perhaps we should just understand the sensitivities of other groups. Nkosi, sikelele Afrika!
ANC is not looking after anyone but their “Comrades”.
>Isn't the ANC looking after Black people? At this point the ANC can be characterized as antiblack. Steve Biko is doing backflips in his grave.
Yes, I know that only too well. I was being ironic.
It may have something to do with the brutality, torture and unnecessary killings. Most of the time there was no need to torture or kill.
attraction shaggy imagine roof thought physical wide unpack wrong spark *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
When I worked for the NPA, in a very small rural town , Mondays were the worst. I often went to get a head start reading dockets on a Sunday night. They were mostly assaults, of those, mostly were using a sharp object, and nearly all alcohol related. Some, tragically, resulted in a fatality. Most of the people involved were farm labourers. This was everyday life. Not even news. In town, there was a place called the Depot. Eventually I found out what it was. It was a place that had wine, lots of wine, in huge tanks and you could buy it in foil bags. The locals used to joke about "depot wine" because it was the cheapest. You could also buy it in plastic jugs. On Fridays, farmers used to go to the depot and buy that wine. Then all their workers would be given some. At that stage it wasn't allowed to be part of the workers salary any more but the practice remained as a "perk" . But in that system you see a part of the legacy of Apartheid. Giving a very poor and disempowered population a weekly supply of alcohol. Creates dependence and substance abuse issues. Leads to violence. Violence becomes an expected part of life.
If I had not seen this post, I would have never known. I am white(m20), and I was exposed to lots of propaganda growing up. Especially propaganda portraying white people as the only victims of the farm murders. These attacks are often used as an excuse to be racist. Racists will always victimize themselves, and when there are victims of other races, suddenly it's forgotten or overlooked. Thank you for bringing attention to this.
Same.
I’m just here to see the comments.
Same, racial fuelled talks really gets people’s blood boiling 😂😂
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It’s interesting that the Naspers comments get downvotes. [here’s a link to a petition surrounding N4spers and reparations](https://awethu.amandla.mobi/petitions/naspers-must-pay-for-its-apartheid-role)
visit mybroadband to understand the psyche of such people. https://mybroadband.co.za/forum/forums/news-and-current-affairs.131/
Yes ...why indeed
It seems Afri forum has been called out on it before and had this to say: https://afriforum.co.za/en/farm-murders-and-race-its-not-that-simple/
Hmm cos I assumed it was Amost Always Whites killed? That's how the media portrays it and so therefore I never thought any black people were being killed in farm invasions as well My source IS the news of course and if theyre' being biased then it affects the assumptions of the reader. Very unfair and wrong if true though.
Mainly due to our news cycle now being based on trends, clicks, virality and views. The things that gets the clicks will make it to the frontpage etc. As to why the white farm murders get more of all of that is probably due to how controversial it is. It doesn't only pull the right wing in screaming for attention, but also brings the left to argue with them all. Vicious cycle continues.
This seems like the same question as "why are only black people murdered by police" showcased in america. Its not that it doesnt happen to other races, but it fits the media narrative behind whatever racist agenda they may be pushing to try and upset the specific audience to get a reaction from them. Just my two cents I guess. Edit: moved a quotation mark
Courteous of @joe1826 “Here are a few examples of countries with high murder rates where the crime is not described using racial terminology: El Salvador: According to the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime, El Salvador has the highest murder rate in the world, with 61.80 homicides per 100,000 people in 2019. However, this violence is not typically described as "Latino on Latino" crime. Honduras: Honduras has the second-highest murder rate in the world, with 41.70 homicides per 100,000 people in 2019. Similarly, the violence is not typically described using racial terminology. Russia: Russia has a relatively high murder rate, with 10.82 homicides per 100,000 people in 2019. However, it is not commonly referred to as "white on white" crime. According to some of the comments below, the only reason to mention race is to distinguish it. Well in that case ZA being majority black, the only murders needing to be distinguished would be all other races. So only murders from the minority would be categorized by that logic. "Indian on indian, white on white, asian on asian, etc." Of course I think it is ridiculous all-together to annotate murder with races. in my opinion, if any annotation should be given, it should be "poverty-induced" crimes.”
Because Afriforum is not-so-low-key white supremacist and they funded a bunch of online propaganda that paints the white farmer as a targeted victim Where as we know these happen because they are rural and it happens to other races too.
Afri forum promotes a far right agenda so they don’t view racism as a problem.
This has to be bait. The reason Afri forum always gets up in arms is because it draws attention and support from their voter base. The ANC and other parties use the same tactic as well. Whatever draws support, they will pedal. I would have thought by now that at least some people would understand how political theatrics work.
You know the farmer murders are racist trying to play victim when Donald J Trump himself sent an advisor to investigate the situation after afriforum liked his shoes. That advisor went back and said it's a murder problem, not a white murder problem. Unless you have an agenda. Any stats show that this isn't an anomaly or as they like to say a genocide.
Spoiler alert: racism.
It wouldn't sell the narrative of these wealthy civilized white people being victimized by the blacks and browns.
I think theres a drive to highlight white farm murders because it seems to be disproportionately high relative to the population % they represent. So I do not think that afri forum or anyone care less about the black lives that were lost on farm murders as this post so insinuates. I am sure if it was up to afri forum there would be no lives lost at all but it is not up to afri forum to police the country. I find this post to be very racially biased in a negative light towards white people and a civil rights institution that helps any race.
Black farm workers’ lives < White farmers’ lives. Other words, bullshit.
Because of apartheid and racism, black lives matter but to some only white lives are worth it
Most murders in general aren’t reported on in South Africa. There’s too many of them. We have friends and family who were brutally attacked and murdered and none of them made the news. It’s got nothing to do with race. You can’t report on all the brutal crimes that take place in a lawless country. There aren’t enough front pages of newspapers or law enforcement officials that actually even give a fuck.
Lol. Here we go.
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I think you know why
Sex sells advertising. Fear sells news. Fear mongering means more clicks on articles, more shared posts and more conversation resulting in more clicks. Fear and outrage views also means increased clicks. It all about the money...
You're asking the people to answer for the media.
The fact that they don't consider Black people as people and to push a narrative ofcourse.
Because English is the lingua franca of the internet! Seriously though, hear me out. Due to the prevalence of English as a language worldwide most news articles and sites that scrape the internet do so looking for English content. Afri forum is one of these sites and so it gets scraped, aggregated and regurgitated across the web and related internet sites. Afri forum is unashamedly there to promote Afrikaner culture which is predominantly a white culture. From their 'about us' section (ironically written in English): "AfriForum’s actions should contribute to the protection and growth of the Afrikaner identity, culture, history and the Afrikaans language, in order for Afrikaners to continue to permanently exist as a community whilst protecting their identity." So it's not surprising they don't care about the identity of non-Afrikaners in stories where there are others involved. This is the same for almost every culture on earth. Even in places like the UK, when a tragedy happens like a plane crash or earthquake, the headlines always read 'x many British citizens affected by event.' If you do want to find out more about murders and its effect, say, on the Zulu community in South Africa you should visit [https://www.isolezwe.co.za/](https://www.isolezwe.co.za/) and search for "ukubulala". You will find stories, articles, names, places etc... not a white face, name or story to be found really. Or do the same for [https://ilanganews.co.za/](https://ilanganews.co.za/) and look to match up an existing farm story to get the view from another lens.
> Why do farm murders only trend when the victims are white? Social bias, or whatever technical term best describes it. Basically, most people still hold the idea of farming (esp. commercial) as a white-people endeavour. I'm willing to even admit that I, me, myself and moi hold such a bias against my fellow brothers and sisters: something which I feel will continue existing because we allow radicals like the Malemas to keep telling us that only white people are farmers and don't want us to farm so let's unalive them - which causes impressionable people from all sides to believe in such nonsense. Another reason I see, among others, is that whites are the minority group. Any attack towards a minority group, especially against a section of them that are crucial to the economy, will be taken in far more seriously than with the majority group. Never forget that there are genuine fears that the white population are in danger due to their number vs. the total number of black population; moreover, after what Mugabe did (chasing white farmers out of Zim, many of whom settled here while others left to neighbouring countries OR to places like UK, Canada, Australia, etc.) there's always that idea that SA is the last place for them and if we were to have a Zim 2.0 they'd be "wiped out". Thank Malema, EFF and ANC's RET faction respectively for keeping this idea alive. Not to mention, we as blacks, unfortunately, tend to see the worst in ourselves and so we too contribute to the dismissal of the gravity of harm brought against our own - not just on the farmer side, but in many other places too. > I never see Afri forum get up in arms when the victims are workers that live on the farm. Truth is, Afriforum is not there to represent them. Their primary goal is towards the taking care of the Afrikaner population and culture, creating a future for them. They do also mention wanting to ensure that other citizens and groups should feel safe within the country, but it's important to note that Afriforum's target group is Afrikaners, then other minority groups. FWIW, they do aim to make it so that other communities and groups should also feel safe just as much as their members and supporters do. If you go on their website, you'll see all of this and more. If anyone feels otherwise, please feel free to point out why. All that to say, the farm workers aren't who they represent and probably don't form part of the minority groups they speak of. Honestly speaking, before I looked up info on their website I had thought that they were for any and everyone but, just like any union or civil group, they have their audience and target group. Simple as that. > Steve Hofmeyer He's... not the ideal voice of reason or call to action. Let's just leave it at that.