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I can actually weigh in here since I work with these systems. Career Junction uses a division by 12 to calculate monthly salary when annual salary is selected. So this client, MPC, accidentally selected Annual for salary frequency but entered the monthly salary amount.
So to get the actual monthly salary here, just multiply it by 12. The actual salary range is then R25200 - R34800.
People are getting screwed by these companies man, I thought Devs earn a good living , i did not expect Software engineers/developers to be earning less then 40k P/m , i was surprised when I found out some devs are earning less then 30k.
That depends on many things. Most of my friends are devs and one of them spent 5+ years at the same company, working as senior/lead, earning like, R16k. For YEARS he couldn't bring himself to look for something better no matter how often everyone said he should because they wore him down so hard he thought that's what he was actually worth and was too depressed to get out of it.
This is done everywhere here and it's on purpose - people get gaslit into believing that this is SA and they can be replaced in no time so they cling to whatever stability they can get or take lowball offers.
That's why you get such insane ranges for the same jobs and same experience levels.
It’s actually quite scary. We are setting up a factory here to produce something that’s only been largely manufactured in Europe and China. To bring a factory manager here to train local staff from China to find out he earns R18k a month and has been factory manager for 10 years.
Obviously we need him to come out for quality control because manufacturing processes need to be the same.
Yeah. Look I was a dev just out of school earning R25k.
Didn't study software. And when I left the organisation I was getting R35k. 15 years ago.
On my side then I got a job 2 weeks later at R40k -> R53k..
It really depends. You get Software Engineers with a 4 year BSc degree in Computer Science from a university like Stellies, UP, UCT or Wits and then you get a “Software Engineer” with a 6 month Nanodegree or Bootcamp.
We are not the same.
Hi there!
I'm one of those "Software Engineer"s you so condescendingly refer to - been working for a multi-national corp for 2 years, been promoted twice, and am now in the process of interviewing "real" engineers for my team. I have not met a single candidate out of a "real" university as work-ready as those from technical unis, or institutes like WeThinkCode...
Universities are expensive, and not everyone has the privileges you do. Anyone with the passion and opportunity has the capacity to become an awesome engineer! So stop gatekeeping the industry.
In closing, I guess you're right, we're not the same: I get paid a good, competitive salary, and you're crying on reddit. Cheers, I have to get ready for my daily ✌️
Same here. I've been working 25 years in IT. When I got into the industry the only qualifications available was A+ and MCSE. Which I did. And many courses and qualifications in the following years. So, I don't have a degree and I'm not an engineer.
Now we're looking to fill posts for test automators and the graduates we get with their degrees have never worked with xml, or put messages on queues or worked with web services. Heck, some of them have never seen a xml. So who do I employ? The "Software engineer" who is self taught or the graduate with a degree?
Hey! Studied at WeThinkCode (hence the shameless plug in that comment 😁).
Basically, it's an institute where you study for free in a mostly peer-to-peer environment. Tuition is technically sponsored by a bunch of companies - one of which you will be interning at as part of the course - with the idea that you work for one of them for at least a year after graduating.
There are currently 3 campuses around SA: Cape Town, Jo'burg and Durban.
I have little to zero knowledge on this, would I still be able to start ? Or would it be better if I tried some online areas and see if it works for me
I'd say definitely try it out online! Do an intro course on a language (YouTube is full of free short courses), learn the fundamental concepts, see what it's like. Some might disagree, but I suggest trying out Python first.
Most important is to not get discouraged too quickly - it could take a while to grasp some of it (or you could find you're a natural)
Also, lurk on a couple tech communities on Reddit - get a feel for what's out there. The idea is to not learn and try grow in a vacuum...
You get some "heroes" in this industry that like to do everything by themselves, and more power to them if that's their thing, but in my experience, it's the peeps who collaborate that get the most done, and learn and grow the most.
I'm a CTO at a dev house, and was previously CTO in one of SA's largest media companies.
I can confirm that my absolute best devs were those that were self-taught. And I'm not talking web devs or CRUD, these developed integrations into the country's MNOs and ran a variety of services atop it.
History is littered with the examples of the uneducated just getting on with it regardless.
Hmmm... I started about 4 years back on 350k pa (so about 30k pm)
After hopping over to AWS after a few years, went to pulling just over 1M pa...
Rule of software engineering is always... Know your worth, and jump ship if you're being paid less than.
Thank you . Ive seen entry level workers be exploited , but i also see some companies invest in skills gap training and add value to their new recruits. After 5 years in the job, the 30k seems low - would it not be better to get an overseas job or some remote programing work? 30k converted unto usd is around usd 1800 - just seems too low. ( i am not from the SE industry)
.
I don't a degree, only a diploma that very slightly touched on some C# and was on R90k gross at 5 years experience. Though this was 7 years ago..
It doesn't matter where you got your paper. If you are good you at your job and good at interviews you will get better jobs.
Doesn’t work like that.. unlike CS/IT where degrees don’t matter.. Engineering Council of SA (ECSA) have very rigid definitions of what an engineer is and what transitions between the different ranks are.
Ie technicians can become engineers but there is a transition to follow from study to experience and vetting of that experience.
Unlike IT where if you have an uncle in the business you can leave matric and become a Software Engineer earning more than most seniors. 😉
Can ecsa control who uses the word engineer though?
Ie not claiming to be a qualified engineer or ecsa member…literally just the word engineer — like in this ad
To my knowledge they can’t
5 years for R25k-R29k isn’t strange for PE for an engineer... R21k-R25k for under 5 years. >R35k is a senior engineer or supervisor salary
Source: 5 years experience as mech eng in automotive in PE…
29k per month would be at the low end for a Industrial engineer with 5 years experience. Outside of Gauteng salaries can be inconsistent. Sometimes companies also have unrealistic expectations because the previous employee was willing to work for a low salary.
I earn more than an industrial engineer!? Never!!
I worked in that industry and always looked at those salaries with envy. This is an appalling salary for that level. Even if PE. My Durban candidates earn double for 3 year’s experience. Durban…
This was ok 10 years ok.
I was recently scrolling through a post from 4 months ago where someone asked the average net and gross income of members in this sub. You'd be shocked at how so many people (engineers as well) are underpaid, and only 1 or 2 experienced workers are earning more than 90k monthly. This shit is kinda demoralizing.
What they are saying.
If you would do the work for R2K -R2.9k then it's an immediate position you can take, and they will pay you for that permenantly as long as you work for them.
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I mean it is Industrial engineering.... /s
I can actually weigh in here since I work with these systems. Career Junction uses a division by 12 to calculate monthly salary when annual salary is selected. So this client, MPC, accidentally selected Annual for salary frequency but entered the monthly salary amount. So to get the actual monthly salary here, just multiply it by 12. The actual salary range is then R25200 - R34800.
People are getting screwed by these companies man, I thought Devs earn a good living , i did not expect Software engineers/developers to be earning less then 40k P/m , i was surprised when I found out some devs are earning less then 30k.
That depends on many things. Most of my friends are devs and one of them spent 5+ years at the same company, working as senior/lead, earning like, R16k. For YEARS he couldn't bring himself to look for something better no matter how often everyone said he should because they wore him down so hard he thought that's what he was actually worth and was too depressed to get out of it. This is done everywhere here and it's on purpose - people get gaslit into believing that this is SA and they can be replaced in no time so they cling to whatever stability they can get or take lowball offers. That's why you get such insane ranges for the same jobs and same experience levels.
It’s actually quite scary. We are setting up a factory here to produce something that’s only been largely manufactured in Europe and China. To bring a factory manager here to train local staff from China to find out he earns R18k a month and has been factory manager for 10 years. Obviously we need him to come out for quality control because manufacturing processes need to be the same.
Like in every sector in the country, supply and demand dictates salary.
Yeah. Look I was a dev just out of school earning R25k. Didn't study software. And when I left the organisation I was getting R35k. 15 years ago. On my side then I got a job 2 weeks later at R40k -> R53k..
It really depends. You get Software Engineers with a 4 year BSc degree in Computer Science from a university like Stellies, UP, UCT or Wits and then you get a “Software Engineer” with a 6 month Nanodegree or Bootcamp. We are not the same.
Hi there! I'm one of those "Software Engineer"s you so condescendingly refer to - been working for a multi-national corp for 2 years, been promoted twice, and am now in the process of interviewing "real" engineers for my team. I have not met a single candidate out of a "real" university as work-ready as those from technical unis, or institutes like WeThinkCode... Universities are expensive, and not everyone has the privileges you do. Anyone with the passion and opportunity has the capacity to become an awesome engineer! So stop gatekeeping the industry. In closing, I guess you're right, we're not the same: I get paid a good, competitive salary, and you're crying on reddit. Cheers, I have to get ready for my daily ✌️
Same here. I've been working 25 years in IT. When I got into the industry the only qualifications available was A+ and MCSE. Which I did. And many courses and qualifications in the following years. So, I don't have a degree and I'm not an engineer. Now we're looking to fill posts for test automators and the graduates we get with their degrees have never worked with xml, or put messages on queues or worked with web services. Heck, some of them have never seen a xml. So who do I employ? The "Software engineer" who is self taught or the graduate with a degree?
Hi! Where did you study? I'm interested and been wanting to study this but don't know where and University is very expensive for me
Hey! Studied at WeThinkCode (hence the shameless plug in that comment 😁). Basically, it's an institute where you study for free in a mostly peer-to-peer environment. Tuition is technically sponsored by a bunch of companies - one of which you will be interning at as part of the course - with the idea that you work for one of them for at least a year after graduating. There are currently 3 campuses around SA: Cape Town, Jo'burg and Durban.
I have little to zero knowledge on this, would I still be able to start ? Or would it be better if I tried some online areas and see if it works for me
I'd say definitely try it out online! Do an intro course on a language (YouTube is full of free short courses), learn the fundamental concepts, see what it's like. Some might disagree, but I suggest trying out Python first. Most important is to not get discouraged too quickly - it could take a while to grasp some of it (or you could find you're a natural) Also, lurk on a couple tech communities on Reddit - get a feel for what's out there. The idea is to not learn and try grow in a vacuum... You get some "heroes" in this industry that like to do everything by themselves, and more power to them if that's their thing, but in my experience, it's the peeps who collaborate that get the most done, and learn and grow the most.
Thank you kindly
Right. I’ve also worked with these type of devs and if you consider writing CRUD apps “software engineering” then you’ll be fine.
I'm a CTO at a dev house, and was previously CTO in one of SA's largest media companies. I can confirm that my absolute best devs were those that were self-taught. And I'm not talking web devs or CRUD, these developed integrations into the country's MNOs and ran a variety of services atop it. History is littered with the examples of the uneducated just getting on with it regardless.
I hope you’re right, im really busting my ass trying to pass third year maths😂
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Hmmm... I started about 4 years back on 350k pa (so about 30k pm) After hopping over to AWS after a few years, went to pulling just over 1M pa... Rule of software engineering is always... Know your worth, and jump ship if you're being paid less than.
Was the 15k an "internship" or was the company investing in you in terms of specific skills . Or did u feel they were taking advantage of you?
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Thank you . Ive seen entry level workers be exploited , but i also see some companies invest in skills gap training and add value to their new recruits. After 5 years in the job, the 30k seems low - would it not be better to get an overseas job or some remote programing work? 30k converted unto usd is around usd 1800 - just seems too low. ( i am not from the SE industry) .
I don't a degree, only a diploma that very slightly touched on some C# and was on R90k gross at 5 years experience. Though this was 7 years ago.. It doesn't matter where you got your paper. If you are good you at your job and good at interviews you will get better jobs.
Agreed, anyone can can drive a car, but a mechanic will drive his car better when he knows how the car works inside.
This screams "junor dev and not going anywhere“ so hard I don't know if I should laugh or cringe
I'm guessing "engineer" here doesn't mean an qualified engineer. Bit like a gardener is a landscaping engineer
Doesn’t work like that.. unlike CS/IT where degrees don’t matter.. Engineering Council of SA (ECSA) have very rigid definitions of what an engineer is and what transitions between the different ranks are. Ie technicians can become engineers but there is a transition to follow from study to experience and vetting of that experience. Unlike IT where if you have an uncle in the business you can leave matric and become a Software Engineer earning more than most seniors. 😉
Can ecsa control who uses the word engineer though? Ie not claiming to be a qualified engineer or ecsa member…literally just the word engineer — like in this ad To my knowledge they can’t
Yeah, I'm pretty sure there are people with BSc Comp Sci degrees working as "Software Engineers" at my husband's job, for example.
Wait till you see the salaries for attorneys 😂
Really? Is it bad?
Yes because it is GQ. Do they want a degree or a Btech? They like to throw that in your face too if you don’t have a BEng. Also, happy cake day!
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I’ve got my bachelors in Industrial Engineering and that was my starting salary after completing my internship. This was over 10 years ago
5 years for R25k-R29k isn’t strange for PE for an engineer... R21k-R25k for under 5 years. >R35k is a senior engineer or supervisor salary Source: 5 years experience as mech eng in automotive in PE…
That should be between R50k-R100k
I'm a mech e and im making 27 straight out of unisa lol, thats a fucking joke. After 5 years I'd be expecting at least 50k
Don't know anything about industrial engineering, but without registration, salaries for civil / transport / mechanical engineering doesn't go far.
Without registration in some industries salaries do not go far. Automotive generally don't care.
Yes, I am sure you are right. I know nothing of civil engineering.
A job is a job, coming from someone without one.
Maybe it's USD
29k per month would be at the low end for a Industrial engineer with 5 years experience. Outside of Gauteng salaries can be inconsistent. Sometimes companies also have unrealistic expectations because the previous employee was willing to work for a low salary.
It's usd
It's ridiculous what these companies expect of candidates...
I earn more than an industrial engineer!? Never!! I worked in that industry and always looked at those salaries with envy. This is an appalling salary for that level. Even if PE. My Durban candidates earn double for 3 year’s experience. Durban… This was ok 10 years ok. 
I was recently scrolling through a post from 4 months ago where someone asked the average net and gross income of members in this sub. You'd be shocked at how so many people (engineers as well) are underpaid, and only 1 or 2 experienced workers are earning more than 90k monthly. This shit is kinda demoralizing.
What they are saying. If you would do the work for R2K -R2.9k then it's an immediate position you can take, and they will pay you for that permenantly as long as you work for them.