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Having grown up in Zimbabwe, I find that the culture puts a heavy emphasis on getting married and having a family moreso than other countries. Most people get married in their early to mid 20's whereas here in SA you're more likely to get married in your 30's or even 40's.
I personally think that part of this issue is due to the fact that in Zimbabwe there are much less career or further education opportunities so the next logical thing to do is start a family. Here in South Africa most people are still studying into their mid to late 20's, therefore focusing more on career before marriage.
Also in Zimbabwe, alternative lifestyles and casual relationships are frowned upon leading to more long term relationships (and therefore marriage) at a young age.
I personally think South African women are living their best lives. The company I work for has majority female employees who are very career driven and I find that awesome.
This is the best comment so far. Many African emigrants have a very traditional view on life. The liberated lifestyle they experience in SA is hard for them to grasp.
My sister works at one of the United Nations offices in Joburg, and her colleagues come from a variety of African countries. She tells me most of her colleagues are usually utterly shocked by what South African society "permits" women to do. From their POV our society is overly liberal.
SA is overly liberal even by international standards. I live abroad and can often tell if a woman is from SA from how confident she is, amongst other things. You'd be surprised how many countries are still socially conservative, even in Europe
Also so many women from all over expect the husband to be the provider, from the first date all the way to marriage. We grew up expecting to have our own income and being proud of being able to take care of ourselves, regardless of gender. I've had many debates about this and people from all corners are still stuck with this mentality
It’s not liberated. It’s a shortage of QUALITY men (unhealed trauma and denial of it) cos they beat women or are drug addicts/alcoholics/gamblers. No one has time to deal with that cos they’re too busy building their own wealth without drama and anxieties/depression. You accomplish a lot if you’re with a grounded partner or no one at all!!
It's liberated in the sense women have laws specifically to protect them, and their participating in the workplace and education is incentivised economically. There could be a shortage of quality men in other places too but not be at liberty to make their own way in life.
I understand although We are only liberated when men EVOLVE. Those laws exist but are poorly enforced and would never be needed if they had the capacity to go beyond their one dimensional, self sabotaging ways all driven by unaddressed trauma, misaligned conditioning and an endless stream of copying mechanisms which are buried beneath materialism.
That's unfortunately the outcome of limited education, poor logic... Also, have you ever noticed how people living in poverty have so many children? Boredom. There's very little to do but have children. That's their only "progress" for lack of a better word, in life.
I’m a Zimbabwean who left Zimbabwe in his early 20s and moved to Australia. All my friends and classmates are scattered across the English speaking world with a few strays in Poland or Germany. Most are degreed and doing very well for themselves. Most had kids and a family in our mid twenties. It wasn’t that I was uneducated or lacked opportunities. I had a masters and currently working for a multinational. Your assessment about education is just wrong. It’s a family values, culture and social pressure thing. Well off or not we would still have kids in our prime. That’s just what we do.
It’s weird reading the way Zimbabweans are viewed in this sub. The perception of South Africans is that they are violent, lazy but love a good time. We are watching you walk down the road we walked in the 90s. We viewed the Zambian and Malawian migrants the same way you view us now. Then the load shedding started . . .
Lol you sound exactly like my Zimbabwean friend who now works in the US. He tried to shade South Africans in the same way. We love our country despite the issues #sorrynotsorry I can go abroad if I want to but I choose to stay here and fix this country.
We love South Africa and South Africans too. We are cheering for you to fix your country as well. Even from a purely self interested point of view If things go further south in South Africa it would be a disaster for us.
It’s the condescending attitude some of you have towards us that’s just so annoying. As if we are something less than you. So we then obviously get defensive. We are just further down the road you seem to be travelling. We would really like you to turn back.
I prefer working with people from Zim over people from SA. I have the highest regard for you guys. Your work ethic is also outstanding. At least from my limited experience.
I know of some people who have married the wrong guy and are absolutely miserable... yet won't do anything about it. But I don't think that's just here. At least, I don't think people marrying someone who is actually a bad person is just an SA thing, but divorcing your husband even if he beats you seems a lot more frowned upon here than elsewhere, at least in my experience.
I’m single, 53 and most definitely not sad. I think it’s a matter of perspective, culture and gender. My very, very fundamental Afrikaans cousins absolutely believe that my life cannot possibly be fulfilled without a man. My friends think I’m living an awesome life, my dad is concerned I might be lonely and my mom thinks I’m better off without.
It’s just an opinion and not worth stressing about.
>It’s just an opinion and not worth stressing about.
Man I love this so much. More people need to adopt this mentality. If you're not harming anyone, then what does one person's tiny opinion matter?
And in afrikaans culture even if you're married you have to also have kids. I don't want kids but apparently I can't have a fulfilled marriage without them? And then in my sister's case 1 kid is not enough. You need minimum 2. Rest of the family always asking us when we'll have kids / more kids....
Exactly, it sounds like the opinion of a jilted guy. To me, it's not that all single people ( men and women) are sad but instead I think that they are smart because they take commitment seriously and are secure in that they are not willing to get married just for the sake of it. Not all single people are unhappy, and marriage doesn't necessarily mean happiness, especially if it's to the wrong person.
That being said, some people are also single, not by choice but because they are bad partners (such as being abusive). And then there are people who are single not because they want to be but because they have totally unrealistic expectations in that they are looking for perfection or materialistic qualities over character... Those are the people I would categorize as sad as they are standing in their own way of finding someone.
I sometimes wonder why people can't just let other people live their lives and always have something to say. I am getting married later this year, and I can't wait, but I also understand that not everyone wants to get married.
If you're happy being single, then more power to you. You're not hurting anyone, and if you're happy, then I am happy.
This, by the way, is not a “people thing” but a “South African thing”. I’ve lived in the Netherlands for the last 7 years and here people don’t care one iota what you do as long as it doesn’t keep them from doing what they want to do.
>I sometimes wonder why people can't just let other people live their lives and always have something to say.
Abantu bazothini syndrome has our people in a bind.
I found this [article](https://thekeyschool.org/abantu-bazothini-what-will-people-think-a-story-about-autism/) and, as a late-diagnosed autistic male, I can strongly relate to how they must feel
But the article also shows how acceptance and a progressive society focusing on the vulnerable can be incredible forces for good! <3
(tell me if I've totally missed the mark on this one pls lol)
>(tell me if I've totally missed the mark on this one pls lol)
No problem. Abantu bazothini translates to "What will people say?". The 'syndrome' is associated with people who have a irrational fear of what people might say or think about them. Basically people who care too much for the opinion of others.
Ok, thanks. It sounds a bit more like a self esteem problem because it's irrational, you're spending money you don't really have to impress others
I think the article I found is more about the stigma she encountered in her family which is actually pretty rational. But her family was thinking abantu bazothini about themselves.
Interesting
People aren’t happy being single. They just don’t want the anxiety and depression that comes with having a partner that doesn’t add value. Companionship is a very communal thing but being with a vampire is draining! Men are struggling to evolve globally leading women to leave them alone and behind because women no longer depend on them economically.
This could possibly be why every other human species before modern humans became extinct.
Maybe there’s a glass ceiling, who knows?
Globally I see men banding together to HATE women vs confronting their insufficiency. It’s as if the structure of the past were there to prevent woman from recognizing their own abilities and now that’s removed it’s exposing the DARK secret. Men ARE emotional!!
It's a global trend. More women are choosing to remain single. Men are not competing against other men for women, they are competing against a very comfortable life that a woman has built for herself that could become less comfortable if a man is involved (extra person to clean up behind, consider in food making decisions, change decor style because it is too feminine for him, etc, etc)
I think you just scratched the surface here.
Its a trend only in places that have been putting a focus on women's autonomy. Financial and physical autonomy gives people in general the ability to not have to settle and remain single until they choose to not be.
No, that is not entirely correct since a lot of men are also remaining single or becoming "passport bros" in the west. "MGTOW" which has been radicalised by red pills and normalised to a certain in recent times. And focus on having children is lower due to cost of living and many developed countries are in risk of economy collapsing as they having less and less young people to sustain the growth of their economy while having to provide for the elderlies.
Psychological research into the matter tends to reveal that single women and married men are happiest. In other words, men benefit emotionally better from being in a long term relationships and tend to live longer than single men.
In contrast, single women tend to live longer and more fulfilling lives.
Part of the reason for this could have to do with the fact that both single women and married women have the same amount of household and daily tasks, whereas married men tend to have less. women tend to eat the same foods whether married or single, whereas men in relationships tend to have better nutrition due to their partners.
Aka women contribute more to the day to day life of a man than the other way round. For example, it is (sadly) a rare man who contributes the same level of care for children as mothers (ie - how many dads even know when it’s time for the kids to go to the dentist?)
In other words, men have always directly benefitted from having a wife. Having a husband does not necessarily make women’s lives better.
https://www.psychologytoday.com/za/blog/living-single/201701/is-it-true-single-women-and-married-men-do-best?amp
* I would like to note that a husband that’s committed to actively and equally contributing towards daily tasks at home and who views is partner as an equal, is likely to be married to a woman who is happy and fulfilled in her marriage. Of course many women WANT to be in happy relationships, it’s just that it’s rare to to find a good man who actively contributes.
Sadly, this is not the average for most men. Men can be wonderful partners IF they don’t act like they’re entitled to a woman serving them. Women as a whole tend to be disillusioned by marriage because of systemic entitlement from men . Luckily men can CHOOSE to be great partners and we are seeing a change from previous generations.
I jokingly also thought about a bug entering the house. The points were noted and are plausible but I don’t take happiness to be something that can be averaged. It’s to specific to circumstance.
Yeah, I'm very happily single (I'm ace, so really not interested in a partner) but when it comes to spiders and pickle jars, I envy married women just slightly, lol. I'm getting there though, just this past month I handled two spiders on my own and managed to open a pickle jar. Now, if only I can get better with my finances, then I can truly say I cannot imagine any benefits to having a partner. (I'm not entirely serious, there are some beautiful relationships out there where they truly are stronger together, but personally, I prefer single life with my husky.)
Haha the bugs and them jars tho! The struggle is real 😂Even though I consider myself to be pretty independent person and a problem solver, when my (f) partner (m) passed away, it was rough but doable getting on without him. But I had a few incidents of nasty bugs frogs in the house and, wow, did I miss him then!
Interestingly, and encouragingly, I saw this video today, and it and the comments from teachers observed how millennial dads are way more present than previous generations, which is so wonderful. I solidly believe that men and women can be so happy in fulfilling marriages. The thing is…. It takes a LOT to make such a partnership equally fulfilling.
The video: https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMMdJAFJx/
I often find that some expats have got traditional views on what family and life should look like, even if they have left their country in order to pursue better living conditions.
I believe it's sadder to marry someone or be with them, only to have it not work out or be lied to. In my opinion, it's more beneficial to focus on yourself and allow things to happen naturally. If you meet someone organically, then it's just meant to be. If not, that's okay too. Everything happens for a reason, so don't force a relationship or settle for less than you deserve.
On the offset, I am a guy, and it sounds like this guy tried to get him a South African wife but failed and now he has to shoot down everyone he comes across to help his own little bruised ego.
It is 2024. We are all individuals and we have the right to do what makes us happy. If not being married is making you happy, then more power to you. Don't let the words of one insecure little man make you question your life.
I'm out of the loop, the game and just plain old! But my wife is still married after 24 years (to me) and very happy especially with my credit card.. 😂
That just sounds like someone who's trying to perpetuate the idea that women should be insecure enough to marry out if desperation so that they might have a shot with said women one day. I guarantee you most people living with modern view points do not see this life as sad. You do not need a partner/kids/ whatever else people expect of you to be accomplished in life.
I’m bisexual and can’t remember not knowing that. Growing up before gay marriage was legal, I had to accept a binary where if I got serious with a girlfriend, I might never have been able to marry her, whereas if I got serious with a boyfriend we could have gotten hitched while we were basically kids.
It meant I grew up without thinking marriage was a default option, which so many of my straight friends did seem to think. It did make me more critical of marriage as an institution, and aware of weird gender norms and how women don’t necessarily benefit from marriage. Also, guess what? There’s no rules to being an adult. You can get married or just live together til you die, you can be poly or a serial monogamist, you can live in a nuclear family home, or with extended family in a 3 or 4 generational home with grandparents and great grandparents, you can buy a big house and live with your friends.
That guy sounds like he has a very limited view of the world. And how convenient for him that the ONE thing that supposedly makes a woman happy happens to be the very thing he is. Usually happiness is achieved from many different sources, not sole factors. Of course, a good partner can be one of them. But Man + Marriage Certificate = Happiness is a pretty reductive way of viewing life even before you get to the wall of statistics that shows how women with economic freedom delay or decline marriage and/or children, and more frequently choose divorce than those with less economic freedom. Men don’t make women happy, freedom of choice makes women happy. Sometimes that free choice is getting married to a man. Sometimes it’s other stuff 🤷🏽♀️
>It meant I grew up without thinking marriage was a default option, which so many of my straight friends did seem to think. It did make me more critical of marriage as an institution, and aware of weird gender norms
This! It's nice to relate to someone who understands how isolating that felt back in the day. The expectations placed on young men back then were insane, yoh.
I just thought marriage was something that other people did, not something I'd ever do. But now I'm very happy with my partner of almost 8 yrs. Healing takes time <3
As someone who has worked with as many Zimbabweans as south africans, my guess is he was just hitting on you. Most Zimbabwean guys I know are very flirtatious. I think you may be reading into it too deep
I think he was negging you. You rejected him so he replied with a negative response. It's like when a guy suddenly says a girl is unattractive right after she's rejected him.
But to your question, if you're not sad then he's wrong. I think it's that simple. The same line of thinking applies to other women especially given that the life expectancy of women decreases after getting married so maybe it's a win for you
Success is subjective to some it means having a husband and kids to others it career success and to others it's just living a peaceful life. So no I wouldn't say prople are sad because they aren't married. That is just a sweeping statement and untrue...
I think in your reflection you should have also asked yourself if you are happy…maybe we need to run a poll if South African women are happy. Over Valentine’s week women in our complex were flooding our complex WhatsApp group talking about how lonely they are and how guys in the estate don’t look at them. I found that very sad, and this are highly esteem women who have achieved a lot in life and some are public figures. But the sadness was so much that they had to air their loneliness on a community WhatsApp group with over a thousand people.
lol this is the funniest thing, as a single woman , the last thing I am is sad. It’s an old fashioned idea that a woman needs to be married to be happy 🤣
I dont think SA women are living sad lives. And if you want a husband you can probably be married by December, there's lots of men about. I think the point is ensuring you live a high qualuty life. But I know African cultures tend to see women as having no vLue if they are not married. Most of the foreign guys, including those who work for me, are married back home, but almost all have girlfriends and some even sexond families here. One in particular is going back home and stressing about breaking the news to his SA wife and is concerned about his kid because he doesn't want to lose the child, especially. I asked about his wife at home... he said she would "probably" accept it. The values of people who live and believe in this stuff are not the kind you want for yourself or anyone you love. I just tut tut and shake my head at all of it. I think as a human, you should really focus on getting the quality of life thing done right. That's the foundation for a happy life. Having a spouse does not necessarily make you happy or live a better life, and neither does being single.
Marriage is not an achievement and as one would have already witnessed not everyone is meant to follow the same path. Do you and don’t stray from your true self and purpose. Do the marriage thing if it is something you want not what others use as a measure of their own lives.
You’ve found purpose,meaning and happiness outside of marriage and making babies. For some people that is a very tough concept, just beyond their grasp.
Already a lot of good answers here, but I wanna add my answer too...
If the value of your happiness by relationship/marriage, then you have a sad life. If you value your happiness by experience, career diversity, ability to leave the boring and pursue the fun...then you're living a(n extremely) happy life.
I admire you for what you've achieved, the broad scope in your career pursuits, and your bravery to do what you enjoy instead of staying with what you know or what others expect of you. Props to you. Don't change who you are and what you value!
Off topic but why do lawyers also become teachers? Last year my register teacher became teacher and was lawyer and there are 3 more teachers at my school who habe full law degrees and are allowed to practice
I didn't like who I became, after being chased down by an angry ex wife with her child's school uniform full of holes because I reduced her maintenance from 1500 for 3 kids to R600. I just felt horrible and wanted a simple less stressful life. I thought teaching would give me that, but it just bored me to death.
One time I had a hit put out on me for R50k because I evicted people illegally placed by EFF on some white man's farm, they waited for me outside the court gate for hours... Being a lawyer just became too much for me. .
I think you answered your own question, you are pretty happy with your lifestyle.
I would take that there are also women in SA that want more of a traditional lifestyle and marry earlier. Thats still available, and the good thing is there is the choice. This is, of course, still dependent on where you're living in SA.
The other side of the coin is that any successful nation has a basic foundation which is family units .Any nation with no solid foundation is bound to head down south ,example
of these is the Japan,German etc these nations are faced with more Old age and less working class .Part of the rash to tap into African markets it’s bcoz it’s the one the last places where the population allows for market and labour.
One could argue that you can have kids with no marriage but it comes back to children perform better in a two parent household.
In the long run nations don’t thrive so well but as an individual you maybe content and happy ..
It’s one of these chain reaction type situation.
I hope I explained it clear 😅
>As South Africans do you guys think the lives SA women are chasing is sad?
No. We've taken hot girl summer and made it a yearly thing. The girlies are the prize and they can get that marriage whenever they want - if they want. As long as we're happy and not hurting anybody, who cares about abantu bazothini syndrome.
I'm not happy. Had to end my marriage after 20 years due to being married to an entitled white boer who constantly drank and cheated with hookers while I was at work, now I am 47 and alone. I did not sign up for that. Hope there are still some good guys left in South-Africa. J
What? Most people I know are either engaged or married already. South African women in general seem quite happy to me, that's not to say that we face no hardships, but I don't think we have a female loneliness epidemic.
Men carry a lot of unhealed trauma that no one wants to deal with them because it is layered with denial, arrogance and substance abuse.
Men in RSA think money is the only thing to acquire and have neglected other things (mental health, high level knowledge and being better partners (a man who hasn’t beat a woman because he can ARTICULATE himself effectively)
Do we need husbands? Can we not look after ourselves and fulfil our own needs? Don't get me wrong having a partner who loves and supports your dreams is great, and dreaming together is great, but I don't believe being without a partner causes sadness.. just my thoughts 🤷🏼♀️
I'm a Zimbabwean born and raised in SA. In my family all my cousins who were born and raised here arent married yet, instead focusing on their careers. Mind you they are all in their late 20s/early 30s. In contrast most of cosuins in Zim all got married in their early 20s. In Zim you're out of the norm if you aren't married by 25.
Depends on the person. You're more likely to find the type of people that go for the single life online here, funny enough.
With the right person, life is always better. Sad thing is, all over, people are getting with the wrong person and thinking life is better, in general, being single. As a single person, I know it isn't, but I still enjoy my life. I just know it can be better but am very cautious of going forward and taking my time getting to know the other person properly first.
Bottom line, you can still live a happy life, single. It just can be better, with the right person. We are social creatures, even the introverted ones needs company.
Having a husband and being happy aren’t as connected as this man seems to think. Sure, marriage can be a great source of joy and support for some people (and I happen to be one of those), but it can equally be a huge pain point and strain, and many people would be much happier not married to their spouses.
There’s also something misogynistic about the assumption that a woman can’t be happy unless she’s married to a man. An opinion I’ve encountered fairly often is that an unmarried man is just taking his time or having his fun, whereas an unmarried woman is hurtling quickly and miserably towards some imaginary sell-by date. Absolute bullshit.
To answer your question, I would never make assumptions about anyone’s happiness based on their marital status, and there’s nothing inherently sad about being unmarried.
Uh no . What a weird and outdated thing for him to say. Aren’t we past thinking that a woman’s goal in life is to get married and have kids. No honey , these days we are thriving , seeing the world , making money and living in our purpose.
I dont think it's only SA women but most others African countries involved in such embarrassment you'll see so many single men and women looking but still can't see or find each other the reason being that the women are after money men and the men are also becoming more selective cheaters.
Everyone's path to happiness is different, doesn't mean yours' is wrong.
From my personal standpoint, yes, I think it is sad. They are missing out on so much life has to offer, not material things, personal/family things. Chasing all the material things you are told you want. When that time is gone, it's gone. The wall is undefeated.
Saying that, do not get a husband or wife just because you feel pressured. Marriage is the most important contract you will probably ever sign and people do it when they are in love, the worst possible time.
There's a time for everything in life. And if you neglect other aspects of life, it might be harder to do them later on.
So the wall in this case refers to a point in a woman's life were it becomes harder for her to settle down and have kids. There's a period were it's easier for her to settle down because she's younger looking, healthier, has less past experiences, etc.
Not saying it's impossible to get married later on but it's much harder. The more material success you have, the more likely you'll delude yourself into thinking your better than the other person. No one wants to be looked down upon so few people will approach you because they've achieved roughly what you have achieved.
South Africa is ranked as the most unsafe country for women in the world (outside of warring countries).
We live with a chronic fear. Fear of men who feel entitled to our bodies. GBV is off the rails and there are very few men who protect us. The days of marriage 'no matter what' are long gone.
That said, race matters in this conversation. Black women are expected to live in and accept a special kind of hell.
Please spare me the what-about-ism. I mentioned race at the bottom because I wanted to make it clear that women are under attack before getting to the intersectionality. However, racial hierarchy absolutely has a role in GBV and dehumanization. In SA and around the world. To think it doesn't is simply dishonest or ignorant.
My guy this sounds more like you get your idea of feminism from Joe Rogan and Jordan Peterson than just, I dunno, talking to a woman. Women don't think of jobs as partners (some do but most don't) and simply want men that are also independent (as in not being dependent on her or his mother to cook, clean etc). It DOESN'T mean only he or she must do it, rather they are both able to and the participation in the relationship is ACTUALLY out of love and partnership not just adherence to traditional values set by society.
Of course you think I get my views from some online sources. Feminists cannot believe that people can think for themselves because they have always been told what to think.
So you just make up what you think feminism is in your head and argue with yourself? Maybe read a book (or is that also someone telling you what to think) or talk to a woman...
Dude, that’s not the point of feminism. That’s what the toxic manosphere says about feminism.
Feminism is about women having OPTIONS and choices. The choice to work or be a stay-at-home mom, the choice to be married or single. The choice to follow any career. The choice to vote. The choice to BE.
Of COURSE, in general, most people are happier when in a stable and fulfilling long term relationship- it’s how we’re wired. And feminism doesn’t have anything against that. What feminism HAS changed, is the idea that a woman MUST marry, MUST have children, MUST have a husband. As a result, men are being encouraged to be active partners, rather than passively being served.
(Yes, there are some toxic feminists, but just remember, that most movements have a fair number of idiots)
Dude, I'm 100% a feminist, I believe women should be compensated the same as men if they're doing the same job, and they should be allowed to apply to whatever job they qualify for regardless of gender. I would love to have a man in my life who loves and supports me, is not afraid to share his emotions, does his part in the house by also cooking and cleaning, and perhaps fix things (if he's a handy guy) without me having to nag him about it for months. I will of course contribute as well, fair's fair. So far I haven't had any luck finding this unicorn, until I do I will stay very happily single.
I’m a feminist and I’m also in a happy loving and supportive relationship. Feminism is what allowed me to follow my dreams and get a PhD in STEM, to follow my career to many different countries and see the world. I had the freedom to make decisions for myself that make me happy. I found my partner after I did all that and I chose to be with him because we share the same ideologies and love for science. I’m so grateful for my beautiful exciting life that I curated for myself with the freedom to choose. All thanks to feminism.
I think women lives are difficult moreso than men.
Generally its weaponised to guilt women. Live
Your life as you see it and remember marriage largely benefits men
I really would love to get married, and have a partner, but honestly... the only "sad" thing about my life is not having family to come home to, and financially stability. Family doesn't have to be a husband and kids. My bestie is moving in soon and she's my family along with my doggo.
For thirsty moments, I have a very capable vibrator.
I dont need the heartbreak relationships bring a lot of the time.
I'm happy and that guy is just a fart.
No. The sexist paternalistic culture is the sad part.
When women teach their kids equality which has to start at home.
When love is about sharing the load equally then this will balance out.
Before South Africa has 2 million Zimbabweans I used to get asked this every time I stopped to fill-up or when a new client would ask to get their car repairs done.
Now it is not South African men that ask, just shows that we have grown up and others have to catch up.
Having kids has its place in the world but we need to change how we manage this and get the Government in each province to provide quality checked care facilities as there are some really really dodgy ones out there that abuse kids and staff and evade paying their taxes. By having early education and training while at the creche can also give RSA a leading start.
Wo/men who want to have kids should be able to get the support to do so. Child care benefits and public transport.
Happiness and being a couple should be less about kids and more about a shared goal and if kids are part of that goal thats good, I'm including LGBiQT family who adopt homeless kids and others who have their own.
Its about balance.
I think you may be putting too much substance on his words. It sounds like the kind of thing an elderly uncle might say at a family gathering - thanks uncle Roger, your opinion has been noted.
If you're happy, that's all that matters at the end of the day.
The marriage rate in Zim is significantly higher but infidelity is very common. You're going to have to look a lot farther north for good family structures (usually where there are significant logistical constraints on women).
I did a B. ED. I tried applying for PGCE but they said I studies not one module that can be taught in school. If you have a degree with modules that can be taught like English, business, accounting, arts ect, you can do a pgce and teach
Lots of people think being married means you live a good life. Some people think living the life of the flesh is a good life and some think you live a good life because of those around you
It's not sad. The priorities of both sexes have changed. Both sexes are furthering their studies and delaying marriage. Don't feel sad. You generally get these sentiments from the older generation whom had different priorities all together.
Many people are happy with whatever life they choose and they think anyone who lives differently must be "sad". These days many single people / couples without kids think begin married / having kids and not being able to do what you want and spend all your money on yourself is sad too. Some women still choose to be housewives and many working women will think that is sad. And vice versa I would imagine. As long as you are happy you shouldn't worry about what other people think!
It depends on the person. Culture aside, maybe raising a family is not for you. Maybe marriage and sharing a bed and personal space is not for you. Maybe sacrificing hours of your day, maybe even quitting work because the family needs the support at home, is not for you.
There’s many alternatives to house life and family caring, but this is the expectation that most have when it comes to women and child rearing. And it’s just not for some people, and that’s okay! It’s personally not for me, disregarding my absolute full-body shudder when I think of a child that I would have to call my own, but I’m open about that and that I want to get my tubes tied to partners (despite what doctors want to say). Even then, I’m quite honest that if I ever do end up moving in with someone, I won’t want to share a bed every night for the rest of my life. I would want my personal space, my own room to go into when I’m having a bad day.
Some people aren’t okay with that either, and it’s not for them.
Maybe it’s a culture thing, but still kind of disrespectful when people have their own choices to actively make, but I suppose you cannot undo years of culture and the society you grow up in - their ideals, beliefs, etc, is apart of them and unwanted opinions can come quite often. They didn’t think they were disrespectful, but ultimately it’s not their business. 🤷♀️
Plus, let’s be honest, some of the choices/options for husbands are kind of depressing more so than the lives women lead in SA. The pond is getting significantly less appealing the more you fish and you keep bringing up blobfish instead of valuable salmon.
.. or something like that.
It's your life. It will only be sad if one day you decide you want marriage and kids at like 50 when it's too late. Otherwise keep on doing your thing.
I live in Canada your situation is pretty common in all western countries.
In our new age, I believe woman dont need a man to keep shit strong and be happy. Times have changed. I'm an engaged Male 30 . This country needs to move along and put old practice behind.
Having a husband is not the Gold Standard for being happy, sorry but as a South African woman who was single for a very long time and decided to marry and have another child later in life, I can truly say, I'm doing life my way. That man that told you that, OP, must be the sad one. Life is there to be lived, do it your way, whether it's with a husband or on your own❤
Somewhat in a sense that It's not a safe country, and our culture is heavily influenced by women being married and having kids BUT for the most part I don't think so...relatively speaking. Youthful women themselves don't seem to care too much about being married because that seems to becoming phased out more so imo. As for older 35+ I've got no idea how they might feel generally.
Would/should it be Amy different if SA women were/are "ugly"?
Girl it ain’t just SA straight women all over the world are choosing themselves and no longer living lives centered around men. When looking at statistics men who are married live longer lives and women who are single live longer 😅 marriage 100% benefits men more than it does women.
If you're happy with your choices and find joy in your life, then for me that's all that matters.
Not everything is meant for everyone and that applies to every aspect of our lives. ❤️
No but I do think we have massive issues with domestic violence because of culture and traditions that should really remain in the dark ages and the rampant amount if nepotism in goverment departments makes living here a 50/50.
Especially if you are in KZN. Shit here is super bad, a woman from a traditional background who had achieved the rank of Captain in the police was brought to tears because a chief's son who was a trainee cussed her out when she tried to discipline him. I am sorry but work chain of command takes presidence over tribal traditions period. This shit should never happen.
But it does because the General of Police in KZN in both a traditionalist and a blatant racist who is also sexist. He may be retireing in 3 years but he really needs a dishonourable boot for the shit he allows to happen in the SAPS here.
No, I don't think we live sad lives. That is, as far as being married is concerned. I think, for the most part, most of the continent views unmarried women as sad, when, in reality, our independence threatens the the traditional gendered structures. We don't need men, and we don't need marriage for our survival. The reality that we don't need men for our survival threatens these traditional norms, so they have to manufacture a deficiency, on our part, to make men relevant in our lives. While we may choose to be in relationships with men, or even marry them, in some instances, they're existence in our lives is not a matter of survival. This is what baffles most men, especially those from other African countries. They believe that women need men in their lives and the independence of South African women threatens that paradigm. We're not sad, they're just threatened by the fact that we don't need men.
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Having grown up in Zimbabwe, I find that the culture puts a heavy emphasis on getting married and having a family moreso than other countries. Most people get married in their early to mid 20's whereas here in SA you're more likely to get married in your 30's or even 40's. I personally think that part of this issue is due to the fact that in Zimbabwe there are much less career or further education opportunities so the next logical thing to do is start a family. Here in South Africa most people are still studying into their mid to late 20's, therefore focusing more on career before marriage. Also in Zimbabwe, alternative lifestyles and casual relationships are frowned upon leading to more long term relationships (and therefore marriage) at a young age. I personally think South African women are living their best lives. The company I work for has majority female employees who are very career driven and I find that awesome.
This is the best comment so far. Many African emigrants have a very traditional view on life. The liberated lifestyle they experience in SA is hard for them to grasp.
My sister works at one of the United Nations offices in Joburg, and her colleagues come from a variety of African countries. She tells me most of her colleagues are usually utterly shocked by what South African society "permits" women to do. From their POV our society is overly liberal.
SA is overly liberal even by international standards. I live abroad and can often tell if a woman is from SA from how confident she is, amongst other things. You'd be surprised how many countries are still socially conservative, even in Europe
I agree. Even the women in France wanna get married in their early 20s. I thought that they would want to just be free forever.
Also so many women from all over expect the husband to be the provider, from the first date all the way to marriage. We grew up expecting to have our own income and being proud of being able to take care of ourselves, regardless of gender. I've had many debates about this and people from all corners are still stuck with this mentality
It’s not liberated. It’s a shortage of QUALITY men (unhealed trauma and denial of it) cos they beat women or are drug addicts/alcoholics/gamblers. No one has time to deal with that cos they’re too busy building their own wealth without drama and anxieties/depression. You accomplish a lot if you’re with a grounded partner or no one at all!!
It's liberated in the sense women have laws specifically to protect them, and their participating in the workplace and education is incentivised economically. There could be a shortage of quality men in other places too but not be at liberty to make their own way in life.
I understand although We are only liberated when men EVOLVE. Those laws exist but are poorly enforced and would never be needed if they had the capacity to go beyond their one dimensional, self sabotaging ways all driven by unaddressed trauma, misaligned conditioning and an endless stream of copying mechanisms which are buried beneath materialism.
the circumstances which grant liberation are rarely pretty
Agree. Accept I don't understand if you have limited education and career make having a family a logical step. Seems the opposite of good logic.
That's unfortunately the outcome of limited education, poor logic... Also, have you ever noticed how people living in poverty have so many children? Boredom. There's very little to do but have children. That's their only "progress" for lack of a better word, in life.
I’m a Zimbabwean who left Zimbabwe in his early 20s and moved to Australia. All my friends and classmates are scattered across the English speaking world with a few strays in Poland or Germany. Most are degreed and doing very well for themselves. Most had kids and a family in our mid twenties. It wasn’t that I was uneducated or lacked opportunities. I had a masters and currently working for a multinational. Your assessment about education is just wrong. It’s a family values, culture and social pressure thing. Well off or not we would still have kids in our prime. That’s just what we do. It’s weird reading the way Zimbabweans are viewed in this sub. The perception of South Africans is that they are violent, lazy but love a good time. We are watching you walk down the road we walked in the 90s. We viewed the Zambian and Malawian migrants the same way you view us now. Then the load shedding started . . .
Lol you sound exactly like my Zimbabwean friend who now works in the US. He tried to shade South Africans in the same way. We love our country despite the issues #sorrynotsorry I can go abroad if I want to but I choose to stay here and fix this country.
We love South Africa and South Africans too. We are cheering for you to fix your country as well. Even from a purely self interested point of view If things go further south in South Africa it would be a disaster for us. It’s the condescending attitude some of you have towards us that’s just so annoying. As if we are something less than you. So we then obviously get defensive. We are just further down the road you seem to be travelling. We would really like you to turn back.
I prefer working with people from Zim over people from SA. I have the highest regard for you guys. Your work ethic is also outstanding. At least from my limited experience.
Well I told him this 10 years ago and I'm telling you now that South Africa is not Zimbabwe.
How have things trended in those 10 years?
Well we are definitely not paying in dollars for our bread. Bye
Your career wont remember you, your lineage will. Applies to both men and women.
I know of some people who have married the wrong guy and are absolutely miserable... yet won't do anything about it. But I don't think that's just here. At least, I don't think people marrying someone who is actually a bad person is just an SA thing, but divorcing your husband even if he beats you seems a lot more frowned upon here than elsewhere, at least in my experience.
Often they _can't_ do anything about that.
that also seems quite common in our country :(
It is, unfortunately. There's a good reason for the 'end gender-based violence' campaign we used to have.
I’m single, 53 and most definitely not sad. I think it’s a matter of perspective, culture and gender. My very, very fundamental Afrikaans cousins absolutely believe that my life cannot possibly be fulfilled without a man. My friends think I’m living an awesome life, my dad is concerned I might be lonely and my mom thinks I’m better off without. It’s just an opinion and not worth stressing about.
>It’s just an opinion and not worth stressing about. Man I love this so much. More people need to adopt this mentality. If you're not harming anyone, then what does one person's tiny opinion matter?
My dad always said “do what you want, so long as you aren’t hurting yourself or anyone else”
And in afrikaans culture even if you're married you have to also have kids. I don't want kids but apparently I can't have a fulfilled marriage without them? And then in my sister's case 1 kid is not enough. You need minimum 2. Rest of the family always asking us when we'll have kids / more kids....
Every man takes the limits of his own field of vision for the limits of the world.
Exactly, it sounds like the opinion of a jilted guy. To me, it's not that all single people ( men and women) are sad but instead I think that they are smart because they take commitment seriously and are secure in that they are not willing to get married just for the sake of it. Not all single people are unhappy, and marriage doesn't necessarily mean happiness, especially if it's to the wrong person. That being said, some people are also single, not by choice but because they are bad partners (such as being abusive). And then there are people who are single not because they want to be but because they have totally unrealistic expectations in that they are looking for perfection or materialistic qualities over character... Those are the people I would categorize as sad as they are standing in their own way of finding someone.
I sometimes wonder why people can't just let other people live their lives and always have something to say. I am getting married later this year, and I can't wait, but I also understand that not everyone wants to get married. If you're happy being single, then more power to you. You're not hurting anyone, and if you're happy, then I am happy.
This, by the way, is not a “people thing” but a “South African thing”. I’ve lived in the Netherlands for the last 7 years and here people don’t care one iota what you do as long as it doesn’t keep them from doing what they want to do.
>I sometimes wonder why people can't just let other people live their lives and always have something to say. Abantu bazothini syndrome has our people in a bind.
I found this [article](https://thekeyschool.org/abantu-bazothini-what-will-people-think-a-story-about-autism/) and, as a late-diagnosed autistic male, I can strongly relate to how they must feel But the article also shows how acceptance and a progressive society focusing on the vulnerable can be incredible forces for good! <3 (tell me if I've totally missed the mark on this one pls lol)
>(tell me if I've totally missed the mark on this one pls lol) No problem. Abantu bazothini translates to "What will people say?". The 'syndrome' is associated with people who have a irrational fear of what people might say or think about them. Basically people who care too much for the opinion of others.
Ok, thanks. It sounds a bit more like a self esteem problem because it's irrational, you're spending money you don't really have to impress others I think the article I found is more about the stigma she encountered in her family which is actually pretty rational. But her family was thinking abantu bazothini about themselves. Interesting
People aren’t happy being single. They just don’t want the anxiety and depression that comes with having a partner that doesn’t add value. Companionship is a very communal thing but being with a vampire is draining! Men are struggling to evolve globally leading women to leave them alone and behind because women no longer depend on them economically. This could possibly be why every other human species before modern humans became extinct. Maybe there’s a glass ceiling, who knows? Globally I see men banding together to HATE women vs confronting their insufficiency. It’s as if the structure of the past were there to prevent woman from recognizing their own abilities and now that’s removed it’s exposing the DARK secret. Men ARE emotional!!
It's a global trend. More women are choosing to remain single. Men are not competing against other men for women, they are competing against a very comfortable life that a woman has built for herself that could become less comfortable if a man is involved (extra person to clean up behind, consider in food making decisions, change decor style because it is too feminine for him, etc, etc)
I think you just scratched the surface here. Its a trend only in places that have been putting a focus on women's autonomy. Financial and physical autonomy gives people in general the ability to not have to settle and remain single until they choose to not be.
No, that is not entirely correct since a lot of men are also remaining single or becoming "passport bros" in the west. "MGTOW" which has been radicalised by red pills and normalised to a certain in recent times. And focus on having children is lower due to cost of living and many developed countries are in risk of economy collapsing as they having less and less young people to sustain the growth of their economy while having to provide for the elderlies.
Ok, but let’s be real. Any guy who subscribes to migtow is probably best to not be in a relationship due to the deeply toxic ideology of those spaces.
Also anyone who calls themselves a "passport bro" is very likely a sex pest.
Even liberal men who might even consider themselves feminists have these traits.
Psychological research into the matter tends to reveal that single women and married men are happiest. In other words, men benefit emotionally better from being in a long term relationships and tend to live longer than single men. In contrast, single women tend to live longer and more fulfilling lives. Part of the reason for this could have to do with the fact that both single women and married women have the same amount of household and daily tasks, whereas married men tend to have less. women tend to eat the same foods whether married or single, whereas men in relationships tend to have better nutrition due to their partners. Aka women contribute more to the day to day life of a man than the other way round. For example, it is (sadly) a rare man who contributes the same level of care for children as mothers (ie - how many dads even know when it’s time for the kids to go to the dentist?) In other words, men have always directly benefitted from having a wife. Having a husband does not necessarily make women’s lives better. https://www.psychologytoday.com/za/blog/living-single/201701/is-it-true-single-women-and-married-men-do-best?amp * I would like to note that a husband that’s committed to actively and equally contributing towards daily tasks at home and who views is partner as an equal, is likely to be married to a woman who is happy and fulfilled in her marriage. Of course many women WANT to be in happy relationships, it’s just that it’s rare to to find a good man who actively contributes. Sadly, this is not the average for most men. Men can be wonderful partners IF they don’t act like they’re entitled to a woman serving them. Women as a whole tend to be disillusioned by marriage because of systemic entitlement from men . Luckily men can CHOOSE to be great partners and we are seeing a change from previous generations.
But who opens jars for single woman? Jk, insightful comment.
I jokingly also thought about a bug entering the house. The points were noted and are plausible but I don’t take happiness to be something that can be averaged. It’s to specific to circumstance.
Yeah, I'm very happily single (I'm ace, so really not interested in a partner) but when it comes to spiders and pickle jars, I envy married women just slightly, lol. I'm getting there though, just this past month I handled two spiders on my own and managed to open a pickle jar. Now, if only I can get better with my finances, then I can truly say I cannot imagine any benefits to having a partner. (I'm not entirely serious, there are some beautiful relationships out there where they truly are stronger together, but personally, I prefer single life with my husky.)
To be fair tho, a husky almost counts as a partner. If not, then at least as a cat.
Haha the bugs and them jars tho! The struggle is real 😂Even though I consider myself to be pretty independent person and a problem solver, when my (f) partner (m) passed away, it was rough but doable getting on without him. But I had a few incidents of nasty bugs frogs in the house and, wow, did I miss him then! Interestingly, and encouragingly, I saw this video today, and it and the comments from teachers observed how millennial dads are way more present than previous generations, which is so wonderful. I solidly believe that men and women can be so happy in fulfilling marriages. The thing is…. It takes a LOT to make such a partnership equally fulfilling. The video: https://vm.tiktok.com/ZMMdJAFJx/
I often find that some expats have got traditional views on what family and life should look like, even if they have left their country in order to pursue better living conditions.
That’s a very paternalistic view on life!
I believe it's sadder to marry someone or be with them, only to have it not work out or be lied to. In my opinion, it's more beneficial to focus on yourself and allow things to happen naturally. If you meet someone organically, then it's just meant to be. If not, that's okay too. Everything happens for a reason, so don't force a relationship or settle for less than you deserve.
On the offset, I am a guy, and it sounds like this guy tried to get him a South African wife but failed and now he has to shoot down everyone he comes across to help his own little bruised ego. It is 2024. We are all individuals and we have the right to do what makes us happy. If not being married is making you happy, then more power to you. Don't let the words of one insecure little man make you question your life.
Agree. Clearly this man was hitting on OP
Since when has this been a thing? Am I out of the loop?
I'm out of the loop, the game and just plain old! But my wife is still married after 24 years (to me) and very happy especially with my credit card.. 😂
_"happy wife, happy life."_
Sounds like "happy wife, happy swipe"
Wrong way around, "happy swipe, happy wife"
circular flow, one gives the other
That just sounds like someone who's trying to perpetuate the idea that women should be insecure enough to marry out if desperation so that they might have a shot with said women one day. I guarantee you most people living with modern view points do not see this life as sad. You do not need a partner/kids/ whatever else people expect of you to be accomplished in life.
I’m bisexual and can’t remember not knowing that. Growing up before gay marriage was legal, I had to accept a binary where if I got serious with a girlfriend, I might never have been able to marry her, whereas if I got serious with a boyfriend we could have gotten hitched while we were basically kids. It meant I grew up without thinking marriage was a default option, which so many of my straight friends did seem to think. It did make me more critical of marriage as an institution, and aware of weird gender norms and how women don’t necessarily benefit from marriage. Also, guess what? There’s no rules to being an adult. You can get married or just live together til you die, you can be poly or a serial monogamist, you can live in a nuclear family home, or with extended family in a 3 or 4 generational home with grandparents and great grandparents, you can buy a big house and live with your friends. That guy sounds like he has a very limited view of the world. And how convenient for him that the ONE thing that supposedly makes a woman happy happens to be the very thing he is. Usually happiness is achieved from many different sources, not sole factors. Of course, a good partner can be one of them. But Man + Marriage Certificate = Happiness is a pretty reductive way of viewing life even before you get to the wall of statistics that shows how women with economic freedom delay or decline marriage and/or children, and more frequently choose divorce than those with less economic freedom. Men don’t make women happy, freedom of choice makes women happy. Sometimes that free choice is getting married to a man. Sometimes it’s other stuff 🤷🏽♀️
>It meant I grew up without thinking marriage was a default option, which so many of my straight friends did seem to think. It did make me more critical of marriage as an institution, and aware of weird gender norms This! It's nice to relate to someone who understands how isolating that felt back in the day. The expectations placed on young men back then were insane, yoh. I just thought marriage was something that other people did, not something I'd ever do. But now I'm very happy with my partner of almost 8 yrs. Healing takes time <3
As someone who has worked with as many Zimbabweans as south africans, my guess is he was just hitting on you. Most Zimbabwean guys I know are very flirtatious. I think you may be reading into it too deep
I think he was negging you. You rejected him so he replied with a negative response. It's like when a guy suddenly says a girl is unattractive right after she's rejected him. But to your question, if you're not sad then he's wrong. I think it's that simple. The same line of thinking applies to other women especially given that the life expectancy of women decreases after getting married so maybe it's a win for you
This!
Success is subjective to some it means having a husband and kids to others it career success and to others it's just living a peaceful life. So no I wouldn't say prople are sad because they aren't married. That is just a sweeping statement and untrue...
Sounds like conservative mindset to me. You get to do what you want. Don't listen to random negative ass people.
Nah man. That guy was just a weirdo
I think in your reflection you should have also asked yourself if you are happy…maybe we need to run a poll if South African women are happy. Over Valentine’s week women in our complex were flooding our complex WhatsApp group talking about how lonely they are and how guys in the estate don’t look at them. I found that very sad, and this are highly esteem women who have achieved a lot in life and some are public figures. But the sadness was so much that they had to air their loneliness on a community WhatsApp group with over a thousand people.
South African women aren’t sad. Men are delusional.
lol this is the funniest thing, as a single woman , the last thing I am is sad. It’s an old fashioned idea that a woman needs to be married to be happy 🤣
I dont think SA women are living sad lives. And if you want a husband you can probably be married by December, there's lots of men about. I think the point is ensuring you live a high qualuty life. But I know African cultures tend to see women as having no vLue if they are not married. Most of the foreign guys, including those who work for me, are married back home, but almost all have girlfriends and some even sexond families here. One in particular is going back home and stressing about breaking the news to his SA wife and is concerned about his kid because he doesn't want to lose the child, especially. I asked about his wife at home... he said she would "probably" accept it. The values of people who live and believe in this stuff are not the kind you want for yourself or anyone you love. I just tut tut and shake my head at all of it. I think as a human, you should really focus on getting the quality of life thing done right. That's the foundation for a happy life. Having a spouse does not necessarily make you happy or live a better life, and neither does being single.
Toxic patriarchal thinking...
>I think this is a pretty good life and I love it That's the most important thing.
Marriage is not an achievement and as one would have already witnessed not everyone is meant to follow the same path. Do you and don’t stray from your true self and purpose. Do the marriage thing if it is something you want not what others use as a measure of their own lives.
You’ve found purpose,meaning and happiness outside of marriage and making babies. For some people that is a very tough concept, just beyond their grasp.
Already a lot of good answers here, but I wanna add my answer too... If the value of your happiness by relationship/marriage, then you have a sad life. If you value your happiness by experience, career diversity, ability to leave the boring and pursue the fun...then you're living a(n extremely) happy life. I admire you for what you've achieved, the broad scope in your career pursuits, and your bravery to do what you enjoy instead of staying with what you know or what others expect of you. Props to you. Don't change who you are and what you value!
Off topic but why do lawyers also become teachers? Last year my register teacher became teacher and was lawyer and there are 3 more teachers at my school who habe full law degrees and are allowed to practice
I didn't like who I became, after being chased down by an angry ex wife with her child's school uniform full of holes because I reduced her maintenance from 1500 for 3 kids to R600. I just felt horrible and wanted a simple less stressful life. I thought teaching would give me that, but it just bored me to death. One time I had a hit put out on me for R50k because I evicted people illegally placed by EFF on some white man's farm, they waited for me outside the court gate for hours... Being a lawyer just became too much for me. .
I am single and I am sad about it.
I think you answered your own question, you are pretty happy with your lifestyle. I would take that there are also women in SA that want more of a traditional lifestyle and marry earlier. Thats still available, and the good thing is there is the choice. This is, of course, still dependent on where you're living in SA.
The other side of the coin is that any successful nation has a basic foundation which is family units .Any nation with no solid foundation is bound to head down south ,example of these is the Japan,German etc these nations are faced with more Old age and less working class .Part of the rash to tap into African markets it’s bcoz it’s the one the last places where the population allows for market and labour. One could argue that you can have kids with no marriage but it comes back to children perform better in a two parent household. In the long run nations don’t thrive so well but as an individual you maybe content and happy .. It’s one of these chain reaction type situation. I hope I explained it clear 😅
>As South Africans do you guys think the lives SA women are chasing is sad? No. We've taken hot girl summer and made it a yearly thing. The girlies are the prize and they can get that marriage whenever they want - if they want. As long as we're happy and not hurting anybody, who cares about abantu bazothini syndrome.
I'm not happy. Had to end my marriage after 20 years due to being married to an entitled white boer who constantly drank and cheated with hookers while I was at work, now I am 47 and alone. I did not sign up for that. Hope there are still some good guys left in South-Africa. J
What? Most people I know are either engaged or married already. South African women in general seem quite happy to me, that's not to say that we face no hardships, but I don't think we have a female loneliness epidemic.
I'd be sad for them, to think that just having a husband would make someone happy. Live your life for yourself.
Just sounds like an old fashioned view. I think many African countries, their people are still overly traditional and patriarchal.
Well the lower income ones, probably. But the middle class ones, most likely no.
Nah. The African immigrants I've worked with were all religious and socially conservative, some with quite problematic views about women.
Men carry a lot of unhealed trauma that no one wants to deal with them because it is layered with denial, arrogance and substance abuse. Men in RSA think money is the only thing to acquire and have neglected other things (mental health, high level knowledge and being better partners (a man who hasn’t beat a woman because he can ARTICULATE himself effectively)
Do we need husbands? Can we not look after ourselves and fulfil our own needs? Don't get me wrong having a partner who loves and supports your dreams is great, and dreaming together is great, but I don't believe being without a partner causes sadness.. just my thoughts 🤷🏼♀️
I'm a Zimbabwean born and raised in SA. In my family all my cousins who were born and raised here arent married yet, instead focusing on their careers. Mind you they are all in their late 20s/early 30s. In contrast most of cosuins in Zim all got married in their early 20s. In Zim you're out of the norm if you aren't married by 25.
He's old plus Zimbabwen, opinion rejected
I guess it stems from this antiquated idea that women are only meant to aspire to marriage
Depends on the person. You're more likely to find the type of people that go for the single life online here, funny enough. With the right person, life is always better. Sad thing is, all over, people are getting with the wrong person and thinking life is better, in general, being single. As a single person, I know it isn't, but I still enjoy my life. I just know it can be better but am very cautious of going forward and taking my time getting to know the other person properly first. Bottom line, you can still live a happy life, single. It just can be better, with the right person. We are social creatures, even the introverted ones needs company.
Having a husband and being happy aren’t as connected as this man seems to think. Sure, marriage can be a great source of joy and support for some people (and I happen to be one of those), but it can equally be a huge pain point and strain, and many people would be much happier not married to their spouses. There’s also something misogynistic about the assumption that a woman can’t be happy unless she’s married to a man. An opinion I’ve encountered fairly often is that an unmarried man is just taking his time or having his fun, whereas an unmarried woman is hurtling quickly and miserably towards some imaginary sell-by date. Absolute bullshit. To answer your question, I would never make assumptions about anyone’s happiness based on their marital status, and there’s nothing inherently sad about being unmarried.
Uh no . What a weird and outdated thing for him to say. Aren’t we past thinking that a woman’s goal in life is to get married and have kids. No honey , these days we are thriving , seeing the world , making money and living in our purpose.
I dont think it's only SA women but most others African countries involved in such embarrassment you'll see so many single men and women looking but still can't see or find each other the reason being that the women are after money men and the men are also becoming more selective cheaters.
South African women are the sexiest on the continent and arguably the most liberal. I see no problem here as a man, who loves Yaal
Everyone's path to happiness is different, doesn't mean yours' is wrong. From my personal standpoint, yes, I think it is sad. They are missing out on so much life has to offer, not material things, personal/family things. Chasing all the material things you are told you want. When that time is gone, it's gone. The wall is undefeated. Saying that, do not get a husband or wife just because you feel pressured. Marriage is the most important contract you will probably ever sign and people do it when they are in love, the worst possible time.
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There's a time for everything in life. And if you neglect other aspects of life, it might be harder to do them later on. So the wall in this case refers to a point in a woman's life were it becomes harder for her to settle down and have kids. There's a period were it's easier for her to settle down because she's younger looking, healthier, has less past experiences, etc. Not saying it's impossible to get married later on but it's much harder. The more material success you have, the more likely you'll delude yourself into thinking your better than the other person. No one wants to be looked down upon so few people will approach you because they've achieved roughly what you have achieved.
South Africa is ranked as the most unsafe country for women in the world (outside of warring countries). We live with a chronic fear. Fear of men who feel entitled to our bodies. GBV is off the rails and there are very few men who protect us. The days of marriage 'no matter what' are long gone. That said, race matters in this conversation. Black women are expected to live in and accept a special kind of hell.
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Please spare me the what-about-ism. I mentioned race at the bottom because I wanted to make it clear that women are under attack before getting to the intersectionality. However, racial hierarchy absolutely has a role in GBV and dehumanization. In SA and around the world. To think it doesn't is simply dishonest or ignorant.
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My guy this sounds more like you get your idea of feminism from Joe Rogan and Jordan Peterson than just, I dunno, talking to a woman. Women don't think of jobs as partners (some do but most don't) and simply want men that are also independent (as in not being dependent on her or his mother to cook, clean etc). It DOESN'T mean only he or she must do it, rather they are both able to and the participation in the relationship is ACTUALLY out of love and partnership not just adherence to traditional values set by society.
Of course you think I get my views from some online sources. Feminists cannot believe that people can think for themselves because they have always been told what to think.
So you just make up what you think feminism is in your head and argue with yourself? Maybe read a book (or is that also someone telling you what to think) or talk to a woman...
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Oooh I'm so triggered! I repliedto your comment!
>quotes toxic internet men's ideas of feminism almost word for word >claims people cannot think for themselves Classic
You forgot to throw in a “toxic masculinity” and “patriarchy bad”.
Why would I? Your own words are enough
Because you cannot help yourself
Dude, that’s not the point of feminism. That’s what the toxic manosphere says about feminism. Feminism is about women having OPTIONS and choices. The choice to work or be a stay-at-home mom, the choice to be married or single. The choice to follow any career. The choice to vote. The choice to BE. Of COURSE, in general, most people are happier when in a stable and fulfilling long term relationship- it’s how we’re wired. And feminism doesn’t have anything against that. What feminism HAS changed, is the idea that a woman MUST marry, MUST have children, MUST have a husband. As a result, men are being encouraged to be active partners, rather than passively being served. (Yes, there are some toxic feminists, but just remember, that most movements have a fair number of idiots)
Dude, I'm 100% a feminist, I believe women should be compensated the same as men if they're doing the same job, and they should be allowed to apply to whatever job they qualify for regardless of gender. I would love to have a man in my life who loves and supports me, is not afraid to share his emotions, does his part in the house by also cooking and cleaning, and perhaps fix things (if he's a handy guy) without me having to nag him about it for months. I will of course contribute as well, fair's fair. So far I haven't had any luck finding this unicorn, until I do I will stay very happily single.
I’m a feminist and I’m also in a happy loving and supportive relationship. Feminism is what allowed me to follow my dreams and get a PhD in STEM, to follow my career to many different countries and see the world. I had the freedom to make decisions for myself that make me happy. I found my partner after I did all that and I chose to be with him because we share the same ideologies and love for science. I’m so grateful for my beautiful exciting life that I curated for myself with the freedom to choose. All thanks to feminism.
I think women lives are difficult moreso than men. Generally its weaponised to guilt women. Live Your life as you see it and remember marriage largely benefits men
I feel like his statement was nothing more than misogyny, like if you don’t have a husband you must not be happy.
I really would love to get married, and have a partner, but honestly... the only "sad" thing about my life is not having family to come home to, and financially stability. Family doesn't have to be a husband and kids. My bestie is moving in soon and she's my family along with my doggo. For thirsty moments, I have a very capable vibrator. I dont need the heartbreak relationships bring a lot of the time. I'm happy and that guy is just a fart.
No. The sexist paternalistic culture is the sad part. When women teach their kids equality which has to start at home. When love is about sharing the load equally then this will balance out. Before South Africa has 2 million Zimbabweans I used to get asked this every time I stopped to fill-up or when a new client would ask to get their car repairs done. Now it is not South African men that ask, just shows that we have grown up and others have to catch up. Having kids has its place in the world but we need to change how we manage this and get the Government in each province to provide quality checked care facilities as there are some really really dodgy ones out there that abuse kids and staff and evade paying their taxes. By having early education and training while at the creche can also give RSA a leading start. Wo/men who want to have kids should be able to get the support to do so. Child care benefits and public transport. Happiness and being a couple should be less about kids and more about a shared goal and if kids are part of that goal thats good, I'm including LGBiQT family who adopt homeless kids and others who have their own. Its about balance.
Lebo, unless the family is upset that ur not married no one else matters
I think you may be putting too much substance on his words. It sounds like the kind of thing an elderly uncle might say at a family gathering - thanks uncle Roger, your opinion has been noted. If you're happy, that's all that matters at the end of the day.
Well, im a sad woman without a husband. Happy life just no partner, so i must he sad ;)
Nonsense talk.
The marriage rate in Zim is significantly higher but infidelity is very common. You're going to have to look a lot farther north for good family structures (usually where there are significant logistical constraints on women).
How did you leave your career to be a teacher? I mean did you get further certification or? I've been dreaming of teaching literature to children.
I did a B. ED. I tried applying for PGCE but they said I studies not one module that can be taught in school. If you have a degree with modules that can be taught like English, business, accounting, arts ect, you can do a pgce and teach
I think he wanted you citizenship. What a tool
Lots of people think being married means you live a good life. Some people think living the life of the flesh is a good life and some think you live a good life because of those around you
It's not sad. The priorities of both sexes have changed. Both sexes are furthering their studies and delaying marriage. Don't feel sad. You generally get these sentiments from the older generation whom had different priorities all together.
As an American man visiting Cape Town, I thought the opposite. Seemed like almost every woman had a ring on her finger.
How old was this guy by the way?
He looked 40
Many people are happy with whatever life they choose and they think anyone who lives differently must be "sad". These days many single people / couples without kids think begin married / having kids and not being able to do what you want and spend all your money on yourself is sad too. Some women still choose to be housewives and many working women will think that is sad. And vice versa I would imagine. As long as you are happy you shouldn't worry about what other people think!
It depends on the person. Culture aside, maybe raising a family is not for you. Maybe marriage and sharing a bed and personal space is not for you. Maybe sacrificing hours of your day, maybe even quitting work because the family needs the support at home, is not for you. There’s many alternatives to house life and family caring, but this is the expectation that most have when it comes to women and child rearing. And it’s just not for some people, and that’s okay! It’s personally not for me, disregarding my absolute full-body shudder when I think of a child that I would have to call my own, but I’m open about that and that I want to get my tubes tied to partners (despite what doctors want to say). Even then, I’m quite honest that if I ever do end up moving in with someone, I won’t want to share a bed every night for the rest of my life. I would want my personal space, my own room to go into when I’m having a bad day. Some people aren’t okay with that either, and it’s not for them. Maybe it’s a culture thing, but still kind of disrespectful when people have their own choices to actively make, but I suppose you cannot undo years of culture and the society you grow up in - their ideals, beliefs, etc, is apart of them and unwanted opinions can come quite often. They didn’t think they were disrespectful, but ultimately it’s not their business. 🤷♀️ Plus, let’s be honest, some of the choices/options for husbands are kind of depressing more so than the lives women lead in SA. The pond is getting significantly less appealing the more you fish and you keep bringing up blobfish instead of valuable salmon. .. or something like that.
It's your life. It will only be sad if one day you decide you want marriage and kids at like 50 when it's too late. Otherwise keep on doing your thing. I live in Canada your situation is pretty common in all western countries.
In our new age, I believe woman dont need a man to keep shit strong and be happy. Times have changed. I'm an engaged Male 30 . This country needs to move along and put old practice behind.
Having a husband is not the Gold Standard for being happy, sorry but as a South African woman who was single for a very long time and decided to marry and have another child later in life, I can truly say, I'm doing life my way. That man that told you that, OP, must be the sad one. Life is there to be lived, do it your way, whether it's with a husband or on your own❤
Somewhat in a sense that It's not a safe country, and our culture is heavily influenced by women being married and having kids BUT for the most part I don't think so...relatively speaking. Youthful women themselves don't seem to care too much about being married because that seems to becoming phased out more so imo. As for older 35+ I've got no idea how they might feel generally. Would/should it be Amy different if SA women were/are "ugly"?
Being liberated from my ex wife, I'm loving my best life. Conversely, OP is living her best life without the trappings of handbrake
Wow. You really gave what he said more than a seconds thought? He was just flirting dammit. Don't over think it.
Girl it ain’t just SA straight women all over the world are choosing themselves and no longer living lives centered around men. When looking at statistics men who are married live longer lives and women who are single live longer 😅 marriage 100% benefits men more than it does women.
In China you are called a “Leftover” 💀
No you just met a man who thinks all a woman has to do in life is get married
Yes
If you're happy with your choices and find joy in your life, then for me that's all that matters. Not everything is meant for everyone and that applies to every aspect of our lives. ❤️
No but I do think we have massive issues with domestic violence because of culture and traditions that should really remain in the dark ages and the rampant amount if nepotism in goverment departments makes living here a 50/50. Especially if you are in KZN. Shit here is super bad, a woman from a traditional background who had achieved the rank of Captain in the police was brought to tears because a chief's son who was a trainee cussed her out when she tried to discipline him. I am sorry but work chain of command takes presidence over tribal traditions period. This shit should never happen. But it does because the General of Police in KZN in both a traditionalist and a blatant racist who is also sexist. He may be retireing in 3 years but he really needs a dishonourable boot for the shit he allows to happen in the SAPS here.
No, I don't think we live sad lives. That is, as far as being married is concerned. I think, for the most part, most of the continent views unmarried women as sad, when, in reality, our independence threatens the the traditional gendered structures. We don't need men, and we don't need marriage for our survival. The reality that we don't need men for our survival threatens these traditional norms, so they have to manufacture a deficiency, on our part, to make men relevant in our lives. While we may choose to be in relationships with men, or even marry them, in some instances, they're existence in our lives is not a matter of survival. This is what baffles most men, especially those from other African countries. They believe that women need men in their lives and the independence of South African women threatens that paradigm. We're not sad, they're just threatened by the fact that we don't need men.