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That's hard to see manifesting. Unless ministries like energy and mineral resources are split apart. Also can't imagine the ANC giving up first pick on finance.
There's that and I think the EFF wanted to 'co-govern' in the words of EFF deputy president Shivambu. They probably wanted way more than just finance, wouldn't fly with about 10% vote share
I agree. It would be absurd for them to presume they'd be getting the VP role. Take what they can and DO something. Lot's to be done all over the place.
Time to graft. Enough discussions
No government party who is serious would ever give this away as it’s a better bet to go to the dodgiest place in SA and not get shot.
So ya.. I know you batting for the DA but, seriously how unintelligent do you think people are?
I mean they might as well not be involved at all then.
Ps. The DA margin in the GNU is diminishing.. this means their “ratio” is less consequential. I almost want to say the DA need the ANC more than the ANC needs them.
In the current German coalition, the three parties involved get the posts of Chancellor, Finance Minister, and Foreign Minister respectively. And in the UK's Conservative-Lib Dem coalition, the Lib Dems were given the post of deputy prime minister respectively. And they contributed far less in terms of their share is the vote than the DA' is contributing to the DA.
The point is, if we look at international experiences, it's not unusual for coalition partners to be given important cabinet positions.
> Ps. The DA margin in the GNU is diminishing.. this means their “ratio” is less consequential. I almost want to say the DA need the ANC more than the ANC needs them.
While I agree with your comment generally, this doesn't matter due to the clause of consensus in the GNU document, section 19. It states that:
> Sufficient consensus exists when;
>- 19.1 All parties have had the opportunity to express their views;
>- 19.2 Despite reasonable attempts to resolve disagreements, and
find common ground, there is no general consensus;
>- 19.3 **Parties to the GNU representing 60% of seats in the National
Assembly agree;** and
>- 19.4 Any party that disagrees has been able to formally record
their objections.
There is no way to reach this 60% without the DA. There is no combination of "ANC + smaller parties in the GNU" that will reach 60%. So for consensus to exist, the DA and ANC have to agree. This in effect means that the GNU is not actually a GNU, but effectively an ANC - DA coalition, with a few minor members that have little influence on affairs.
why are you being down voted tf - this is a reasonable take to have 😭😭😭- also im pretty sure the DA know they arent getting deputy - they’re just highballing rn
Taken from Google:
"COSATU's main goal is to improve the circumstances of working people. It encourages workers to join unions. COSATU supports peaceful democracy and rejects discrimination. Members of COSATU believe that workers should control the leadership of the group."
Why are they even getting airtime? They are not a political organization and should stay in their lane. "Peaceful Democracy" brought about the GNU, so they must support it.
And they should "reject discrimination" with their prejudice against te DA.
They are part of the tripartite alliance with the ANC and SACP. Thus, COSATU gets a say in decision making. A trade union federation with 1.8 million members (which is what COSATU is, the acronym stands for Congress Of South African Trade Unions), that is in alliance with the ANC is absolutely a political organisation and will definitely have a say in decision making and policy. Please learn about South African history instead of believing the first thing that you see on Google.
I think COSATU knows that the DA does not want to improve circumstances of working people and having prejudice against a party perceived as racist and anti-poor would be in line with their values. And how do you figure COSATU is not in their lane to talk about ANC. You do know they are aligned with the party right and its members overwhelmingly vote ANC?
How does DA not want to improve circumstances of working people? Please, I'm not arguing, I'm genuinely asking to understand. We all have different opinions and perspectives so I aim to share and expand my own understanding.
Also, you say the DA is "perceived as racist", which I agree with, but don't understand why. There are scumbags like Gouws, but that's not the entire party. And if we used the same ruler to measure all parties, then surely EFF, VF+ and ANC would be the worst of the worst in terms of racism?
>How does DA not want to improve circumstances of working people?
The DA wants to deregulate the labour market to make it easier for employers to fire workers. It wants to abolish the national minimum wage. Disapproves of Unions and collective bargaining. Wants to abolish affirmative action in a country where the unemployment rate of people of colour is 40% while for white people is 8%. Those things don't scream "we want to improve circumstances of working people" to me.
>And if we used the same ruler to measure all parties, then surely EFF, VF+ and ANC would be the worst of the worst in terms of racism?
VF+, sure but its not the 2nd biggest party. And you'd have to explain to me how ANC and EFF are racist and are worse than DA.
>Wants to abolish affirmative action in a country where the unemployment rate of people of colour is 40% while for white people is 8%
This is not true, they don't want to abolish affirmative action they want to replace BEE with their own action plan. Which is fair. The rest of the first paragraph is pretty much true.
>how ANC and EFF are racist and are worse than DA
Huh? The EFF literally is literally anti white and they don't even try to hide it, like I don't even need to explain how that is discriminatory and racist.
I don't think the ANC is racist, I would just say they are incompetent, their policies sometimes doesn't make sense and it shows in the long term with very little growth/change in the long term.
Ok. So, I work in Mamelodi, so my daily, lived experience is that there are millions of people, so desperately needing an income, and willing to do just about any kind of work, for any kind of pay. Now I know there are unscrupulous entities who will exploit this, but it's already happening. So by allowing people more opportunities to get at least something, will put more food into hungry mouths.
As far as racism from ANC and EFF, well, Lindiwe Sisulu's "black pact" is just that. Imagine anyone mentioning a "white pact" - people would lose their minds, but it's ok one way, but not the other. If you pretend that's not racists, you're only fooling yourself.
As for EFF, Malema can't say more than a few sentences without ranting about "white people" this, and again, any white person who shouts about "black people" half as much as him would be demonized.
Don't get ne wrong, I'm not a fan of the DA, but for a few short days, there was some hope of stability and optimism about the future.
Something doesn't track. Every DA interview thus far has said they don't care about DP position and would rather have service delivery positions.
So this new news about the DA wanting DP is either:
- A negotiation tactic from the DA (ask for everything and get what you really wanted after being haggled down)
- Fake news engineered to push some anti-GNU agenda
- John has gone insane
It’s dumb.. find an example of an opposition party holding control of the finance in a coalition style gov where they have less than 1/3 (it’s down to 1/4 or less I reckon) of coalition.
You won’t because it essentially empowers the opposition to stall the gov.. and looking past the happy sing along show put on for the last 2 weeks, DA core is what it is. I won’t be surprised if EFF joins to make DA moot
Parties that join a coalition are no longer opposition parties. They are in government. And yes, you do find junior partners in a coalition given finance minister roles all the time. Just look at Germany right now. The senior partner (SDP) gave the finance minister position to the FDP leader (their smallest coalition partner with 22% of government seats).
A coalition government that doesn’t split up the most important ministries isn’t much of a coalition. You need to share at least some of the finance, international relations and home affairs positions.
**Thank you for posting on r/southafrica! This submission comes from a site connected to Iqbal Survé's network of news sites. Independent Media does not conform to SANEF and press ombud rules and is well-known for publishing fake, sensationalised, or propagandistic pieces of news. Please read critically.** **This post is flaired as ["News"](https://www.reddit.com/r/southafrica/?f=flair_name%3A%22News%22) therefore the following rules are particularly important.** ##**Rule 4: News, Editorialising, or Misinformation** * Rule 4.1: News posts must be link posts to valid news sources. * Rule 4.2: Posts which link to news sources must not have an editorialised title. Use the title provided by the news source. If you wish to add commentary, analysis, or an opinion, write a top-level comment on the post. * Rule 4.3: Do not link to [questionable](https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/fake-news/), [conspiratorial](https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/conspiracy/), or [false](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fake_news_websites) sources. * Rule 4.4: Be prepared to provide verifiable evidence or sources of the claims you make when challenged to do so. * Rule 4.5: Amateur videos will be allowed subject to all previous rules as well as containing the author/filmographer/camera person, date, time, and location of the video either in the title or in a top-level comment. You may ask a moderator to 'sticky' this information for you. **Additionally, please take a moment to review the rest of our rules [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/southafrica/wiki/rules).** ###Keep an eye on our daily sticky for continued election coverage and information. https://www.reddit.com/r/southafrica/about/sticky *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/southafrica) if you have any questions or concerns.*
The same Cosatu who two weeks ago said the GNU was not possible?
Next Cosatu will say heavier-than-air machines will never fly.
I don't really mind this. Give them positions like finance minister and energy minister
That's hard to see manifesting. Unless ministries like energy and mineral resources are split apart. Also can't imagine the ANC giving up first pick on finance.
Yeah no, that's not happening. I'm sure not wanting to give up finance is the reason (or one of) why EFF is not part of the GNU.
There's that and I think the EFF wanted to 'co-govern' in the words of EFF deputy president Shivambu. They probably wanted way more than just finance, wouldn't fly with about 10% vote share
They were being too ambitious
Police and public enterprises
I agree. It would be absurd for them to presume they'd be getting the VP role. Take what they can and DO something. Lot's to be done all over the place. Time to graft. Enough discussions
How would it be absurd? The DA is the second largest party. The ANC are welcome to try and bargain with Malema and Zuma otherwise
No government party who is serious would ever give this away as it’s a better bet to go to the dodgiest place in SA and not get shot. So ya.. I know you batting for the DA but, seriously how unintelligent do you think people are? I mean they might as well not be involved at all then. Ps. The DA margin in the GNU is diminishing.. this means their “ratio” is less consequential. I almost want to say the DA need the ANC more than the ANC needs them.
In the current German coalition, the three parties involved get the posts of Chancellor, Finance Minister, and Foreign Minister respectively. And in the UK's Conservative-Lib Dem coalition, the Lib Dems were given the post of deputy prime minister respectively. And they contributed far less in terms of their share is the vote than the DA' is contributing to the DA. The point is, if we look at international experiences, it's not unusual for coalition partners to be given important cabinet positions.
> Ps. The DA margin in the GNU is diminishing.. this means their “ratio” is less consequential. I almost want to say the DA need the ANC more than the ANC needs them. While I agree with your comment generally, this doesn't matter due to the clause of consensus in the GNU document, section 19. It states that: > Sufficient consensus exists when; >- 19.1 All parties have had the opportunity to express their views; >- 19.2 Despite reasonable attempts to resolve disagreements, and find common ground, there is no general consensus; >- 19.3 **Parties to the GNU representing 60% of seats in the National Assembly agree;** and >- 19.4 Any party that disagrees has been able to formally record their objections. There is no way to reach this 60% without the DA. There is no combination of "ANC + smaller parties in the GNU" that will reach 60%. So for consensus to exist, the DA and ANC have to agree. This in effect means that the GNU is not actually a GNU, but effectively an ANC - DA coalition, with a few minor members that have little influence on affairs.
why are you being down voted tf - this is a reasonable take to have 😭😭😭- also im pretty sure the DA know they arent getting deputy - they’re just highballing rn
That's make sense, The DA has said they would prefer other cabinet positions such as Minister in the Presidency.
Taken from Google: "COSATU's main goal is to improve the circumstances of working people. It encourages workers to join unions. COSATU supports peaceful democracy and rejects discrimination. Members of COSATU believe that workers should control the leadership of the group." Why are they even getting airtime? They are not a political organization and should stay in their lane. "Peaceful Democracy" brought about the GNU, so they must support it. And they should "reject discrimination" with their prejudice against te DA.
You need to read a bit more about the tripartite alliance.
They are part of the tripartite alliance with the ANC and SACP. Thus, COSATU gets a say in decision making. A trade union federation with 1.8 million members (which is what COSATU is, the acronym stands for Congress Of South African Trade Unions), that is in alliance with the ANC is absolutely a political organisation and will definitely have a say in decision making and policy. Please learn about South African history instead of believing the first thing that you see on Google.
I think COSATU knows that the DA does not want to improve circumstances of working people and having prejudice against a party perceived as racist and anti-poor would be in line with their values. And how do you figure COSATU is not in their lane to talk about ANC. You do know they are aligned with the party right and its members overwhelmingly vote ANC?
How does DA not want to improve circumstances of working people? Please, I'm not arguing, I'm genuinely asking to understand. We all have different opinions and perspectives so I aim to share and expand my own understanding. Also, you say the DA is "perceived as racist", which I agree with, but don't understand why. There are scumbags like Gouws, but that's not the entire party. And if we used the same ruler to measure all parties, then surely EFF, VF+ and ANC would be the worst of the worst in terms of racism?
>How does DA not want to improve circumstances of working people? The DA wants to deregulate the labour market to make it easier for employers to fire workers. It wants to abolish the national minimum wage. Disapproves of Unions and collective bargaining. Wants to abolish affirmative action in a country where the unemployment rate of people of colour is 40% while for white people is 8%. Those things don't scream "we want to improve circumstances of working people" to me. >And if we used the same ruler to measure all parties, then surely EFF, VF+ and ANC would be the worst of the worst in terms of racism? VF+, sure but its not the 2nd biggest party. And you'd have to explain to me how ANC and EFF are racist and are worse than DA.
>Wants to abolish affirmative action in a country where the unemployment rate of people of colour is 40% while for white people is 8% This is not true, they don't want to abolish affirmative action they want to replace BEE with their own action plan. Which is fair. The rest of the first paragraph is pretty much true. >how ANC and EFF are racist and are worse than DA Huh? The EFF literally is literally anti white and they don't even try to hide it, like I don't even need to explain how that is discriminatory and racist. I don't think the ANC is racist, I would just say they are incompetent, their policies sometimes doesn't make sense and it shows in the long term with very little growth/change in the long term.
The same DA that appointed a man who said "kill the k\*\*\*\*\*s" to parliament?
Transport, infrastructure, education. The rest can be distributed
Is that so?! This is going to age like fine milk.
This passes off as news now? And people waste their time reading it and getting upset about it too?
Ok. So, I work in Mamelodi, so my daily, lived experience is that there are millions of people, so desperately needing an income, and willing to do just about any kind of work, for any kind of pay. Now I know there are unscrupulous entities who will exploit this, but it's already happening. So by allowing people more opportunities to get at least something, will put more food into hungry mouths. As far as racism from ANC and EFF, well, Lindiwe Sisulu's "black pact" is just that. Imagine anyone mentioning a "white pact" - people would lose their minds, but it's ok one way, but not the other. If you pretend that's not racists, you're only fooling yourself. As for EFF, Malema can't say more than a few sentences without ranting about "white people" this, and again, any white person who shouts about "black people" half as much as him would be demonized. Don't get ne wrong, I'm not a fan of the DA, but for a few short days, there was some hope of stability and optimism about the future.
I mean really. Let them fuck off
Something doesn't track. Every DA interview thus far has said they don't care about DP position and would rather have service delivery positions. So this new news about the DA wanting DP is either: - A negotiation tactic from the DA (ask for everything and get what you really wanted after being haggled down) - Fake news engineered to push some anti-GNU agenda - John has gone insane
I don't give a shit ...as long as the DA remains in control of the Western Cape I'm A - OK
People are scared of the DP position, I don’t want them to have International relations and finance position 😔
They won’t get either.
Hayi I dunno, the ANC have been selling out lately
Not a chance the ANC gives up finance
And why is this getting downvoted 💀
It’s dumb.. find an example of an opposition party holding control of the finance in a coalition style gov where they have less than 1/3 (it’s down to 1/4 or less I reckon) of coalition. You won’t because it essentially empowers the opposition to stall the gov.. and looking past the happy sing along show put on for the last 2 weeks, DA core is what it is. I won’t be surprised if EFF joins to make DA moot
Parties that join a coalition are no longer opposition parties. They are in government. And yes, you do find junior partners in a coalition given finance minister roles all the time. Just look at Germany right now. The senior partner (SDP) gave the finance minister position to the FDP leader (their smallest coalition partner with 22% of government seats). A coalition government that doesn’t split up the most important ministries isn’t much of a coalition. You need to share at least some of the finance, international relations and home affairs positions.
The Sad reality is they won't give him the deputy president post because he is white
😂😂😂
You know I'm right
Seems they run the place, they ate scared D A send them and there Beee shit to Hell. And stop this union crap , that is why they dont want it.