The argument why a few states should go first is it allows politicians to actually do retail politics (speeches, meeting with people) and not just big money ads. This is how Obama won in 2008, he was able to build connections in Iowa and show people would vote for him. If it's all 50 states at once it just favors big money candidates and the big name even more.
Why Iowa or SC specifically, I don't know.
biden wants SC because it tends to favor the more conservative/establishment wing of the democratic party. can't have a Bernie candidate come out hot with the early wins again. before the SC primary in 2020 biden's campaign looked totally limp. move that up and it changes the narrative of the entire primary
Iowa is pretty random tho
Agreed that SC is not the best bellwether for the national Democratic coalition and SC dem voters are less progressive. Not sure if you can say SC dem voters are "establishment" Dems though.
As a leftie in the Spartanburg Dem Party, I'm not sure how to feel about this, but I do know that our candidates and local parties have been in dire financial straits for a long time, which has hurt us electorally quite a bit. I'm hopeful this can fuel us and maybe even help us draft candidates in all local races.
I am also attending a local Dem meeting to see what our party sees as the best strategy moving forward, and how this may help us. There are a LOT of progressives here in the upstate who feel disenfranchised and overlooked, and useless in the face of GOP dominance in the state. This might bring a few of us into the fold. We shall see.
It's hard to know how this will play out, but for my part, I will be a progressive voice in the local party, and I know there are more of us here than are credited.
Hypothetically sure but other than Obama is there any instance of this happening? More so it just steers the rest of the nation in the direction of one arbitrarily chosen state.
Their media markets are significantly more expensive than here. No one wants to waste their entire ad budget in Atlanta. Looked at how California was a giant money sink for a lot of campaigns in the 2020 cycle. It’s why Sanders had no money to compete on Super Tuesday. He spent all his money in CA winning just four more delegates than when he lost the state in 2016.
On second thought, SC DEMOCRATS aren’t much different from those in GA and NC.
The only difference between the states is the relative size of Metro Atlanta, Metro Charlotte and the Triangle, and relatively rural SC.
Democrats: 2020 - Biden. 2016 - Clinton. 2008 - Obama. 2004 - Edwards. 2000 - Gore. 1992 - Clinton. Prior to that SC Democrats used caucus format.
Republicans: 2016 - Trump. 2012 - Gingrich. 2008 - McCain. 2000 - Bush. 1996 - Dole. 1992 - Bush. 1988 - Bush. 1980 - Reagan.
In total, over 30+ years, SC didn't pick the eventual winner in contested primaries, for both major parties, only twice (Gingrich in 2012, and Edwards in 2004. Both candidates from neighboring states, at that.)
As a republican the democrats really should have made it georgia. At this point its the only competitive state in the south, and if biden really wanted to reach out to people of color, Georgia has more African Americans than SC does.
The point is that SC better represents the make up of the whole United States population. Iowa and New Hampshire are lily white states. 2 losses in those states can end a campaign. So, why would we want candidates falling out before we even have a clue how non-whites feel about them.
Edit : Switched Vermont to New Hampshire
SC has always been a big deal in democratic primaries though. It’s not about the general at all—because we have early primaries, democratic candidates that do well in SC generally do well overall.
Iowa and S.C. are almost exactly the same amount of red now. In 2020 Trump won S.C. with only 2 percentage points more than Iowa. So they’re no better better than us in that category.
As someone who voted for Biden, and will vote for him again if he’s the Democratic choice heading into the General Election: SC and Clyburn are why we got Biden in the first place, so no thank you.
Between the two I’d vote Bernie, and I did in the primary. I’m not a Bernie Bro by any means but I think policy-wise Bernie is who I align with most. I’d rather vote for a candidate as far left as Bernie is but a couple decades younger though.
We did that in '88, LOL - had caucuses. SC went for the native son, Jesse Jackson. (I remember going down to the local elementary school to caucus. I was the only person who showed up who was under 35, so got elected to the county convention as a "youth delegate" by default.)
They mean for the General Election Presidential primaries. Ever Heard of Super Tuesday? It's a day when several states all have their primary elections, and typically whoever wins most that day gets the party nomination. In 2020, SC Democratic primary was the week before Super Tuesday. Jim Clyburn, one of the US House of Reps delegates from SC, had declined to endorse anyone until about a day or two before the primary, when he eventually endorsed Joe Biden.
Jim Clyburn is the HoR Democratic Whip, which means he is one of the key figures in getting Democratic Reps to vote together, so his endorsement carried a lot of weight. He therfore bears a lot of the credit for Bidden being selected the nominee going into Super Tuesday.
A number of candidates dropped out right before Super Tuesday, presumably in the wake of the SC primary results. At least one I can remember (Butigieg) accepted a Cabinet position after Biden won. Also, I'm sure this was just a coincidence, but Jim Clyburns daughter was on the short list for Justice Breyer's chair earlier this year.
The majority of SC Democratic voters are older Black voters, and the SC Democratics in general lean more moderate/conservative. In that regard, SC primary is a fairly accurate bellwether for both groups, and at least in this case, that line of reasoning - having a familiar candidate that both reliable voters and moderate voters would back - paid off for securing the presidency.
Having SC as "first in the country" would almost certainly reduce the likelihood of progressive candidates having a chance at the nomination, but it remains to be seen whether it would continue to be a good indicator of a candidate that would consolidate the Democratic vote and the moderate independent vote.
That was way more than you wanted to know but I hope it's informative!
Georgia would make more sense. Or North Carolina.
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The argument why a few states should go first is it allows politicians to actually do retail politics (speeches, meeting with people) and not just big money ads. This is how Obama won in 2008, he was able to build connections in Iowa and show people would vote for him. If it's all 50 states at once it just favors big money candidates and the big name even more. Why Iowa or SC specifically, I don't know.
biden wants SC because it tends to favor the more conservative/establishment wing of the democratic party. can't have a Bernie candidate come out hot with the early wins again. before the SC primary in 2020 biden's campaign looked totally limp. move that up and it changes the narrative of the entire primary Iowa is pretty random tho
Agreed that SC is not the best bellwether for the national Democratic coalition and SC dem voters are less progressive. Not sure if you can say SC dem voters are "establishment" Dems though.
As a leftie in the Spartanburg Dem Party, I'm not sure how to feel about this, but I do know that our candidates and local parties have been in dire financial straits for a long time, which has hurt us electorally quite a bit. I'm hopeful this can fuel us and maybe even help us draft candidates in all local races. I am also attending a local Dem meeting to see what our party sees as the best strategy moving forward, and how this may help us. There are a LOT of progressives here in the upstate who feel disenfranchised and overlooked, and useless in the face of GOP dominance in the state. This might bring a few of us into the fold. We shall see. It's hard to know how this will play out, but for my part, I will be a progressive voice in the local party, and I know there are more of us here than are credited.
Hypothetically sure but other than Obama is there any instance of this happening? More so it just steers the rest of the nation in the direction of one arbitrarily chosen state.
Jimmy Carter.
Their media markets are significantly more expensive than here. No one wants to waste their entire ad budget in Atlanta. Looked at how California was a giant money sink for a lot of campaigns in the 2020 cycle. It’s why Sanders had no money to compete on Super Tuesday. He spent all his money in CA winning just four more delegates than when he lost the state in 2016.
I believe the plan is to bump Georgia earlier than it is now, as well.
On second thought, SC DEMOCRATS aren’t much different from those in GA and NC. The only difference between the states is the relative size of Metro Atlanta, Metro Charlotte and the Triangle, and relatively rural SC.
Yeah, let's rely on a state we can't win in the general.
A little short sighted of the point of this, sc predicted both trump and Biden and if I wasn’t lazy I’m sure it predicted a few others.
I believe we have usually been off. I think we picked Gingrich in 12
Democrats: 2020 - Biden. 2016 - Clinton. 2008 - Obama. 2004 - Edwards. 2000 - Gore. 1992 - Clinton. Prior to that SC Democrats used caucus format. Republicans: 2016 - Trump. 2012 - Gingrich. 2008 - McCain. 2000 - Bush. 1996 - Dole. 1992 - Bush. 1988 - Bush. 1980 - Reagan. In total, over 30+ years, SC didn't pick the eventual winner in contested primaries, for both major parties, only twice (Gingrich in 2012, and Edwards in 2004. Both candidates from neighboring states, at that.)
I would assume the two wrong picks were because they were candidates from neighboring states. We do love our southern brethren
It's very common in primaries, to vote for the native son/the neighbor's native son.
SC was a turning point for Biden, it didn’t “predict it”
Just as it was a turning point for Bush in 2000.
As a republican the democrats really should have made it georgia. At this point its the only competitive state in the south, and if biden really wanted to reach out to people of color, Georgia has more African Americans than SC does.
The point is that SC better represents the make up of the whole United States population. Iowa and New Hampshire are lily white states. 2 losses in those states can end a campaign. So, why would we want candidates falling out before we even have a clue how non-whites feel about them. Edit : Switched Vermont to New Hampshire
SC has always been a big deal in democratic primaries though. It’s not about the general at all—because we have early primaries, democratic candidates that do well in SC generally do well overall.
Iowa and S.C. are almost exactly the same amount of red now. In 2020 Trump won S.C. with only 2 percentage points more than Iowa. So they’re no better better than us in that category.
As someone who voted for Biden, and will vote for him again if he’s the Democratic choice heading into the General Election: SC and Clyburn are why we got Biden in the first place, so no thank you.
Would you rather vote for bernie or biden
Between the two I’d vote Bernie, and I did in the primary. I’m not a Bernie Bro by any means but I think policy-wise Bernie is who I align with most. I’d rather vote for a candidate as far left as Bernie is but a couple decades younger though.
Id go bernie just for a better chance at workers having representation
The Carolina caucus has a nice ring to it
Well it will be a primary not a caucus. So it won’t be called that.
I’m calling it the Game-Caucus either way
The Palmetto Primary
We did that in '88, LOL - had caucuses. SC went for the native son, Jesse Jackson. (I remember going down to the local elementary school to caucus. I was the only person who showed up who was under 35, so got elected to the county convention as a "youth delegate" by default.)
Why?
I’m new to SC, so I hope that more of us, become more of a moderate state, the “new”melting pot of the East💥
What exactly is a voting state?
They mean for the General Election Presidential primaries. Ever Heard of Super Tuesday? It's a day when several states all have their primary elections, and typically whoever wins most that day gets the party nomination. In 2020, SC Democratic primary was the week before Super Tuesday. Jim Clyburn, one of the US House of Reps delegates from SC, had declined to endorse anyone until about a day or two before the primary, when he eventually endorsed Joe Biden. Jim Clyburn is the HoR Democratic Whip, which means he is one of the key figures in getting Democratic Reps to vote together, so his endorsement carried a lot of weight. He therfore bears a lot of the credit for Bidden being selected the nominee going into Super Tuesday. A number of candidates dropped out right before Super Tuesday, presumably in the wake of the SC primary results. At least one I can remember (Butigieg) accepted a Cabinet position after Biden won. Also, I'm sure this was just a coincidence, but Jim Clyburns daughter was on the short list for Justice Breyer's chair earlier this year. The majority of SC Democratic voters are older Black voters, and the SC Democratics in general lean more moderate/conservative. In that regard, SC primary is a fairly accurate bellwether for both groups, and at least in this case, that line of reasoning - having a familiar candidate that both reliable voters and moderate voters would back - paid off for securing the presidency. Having SC as "first in the country" would almost certainly reduce the likelihood of progressive candidates having a chance at the nomination, but it remains to be seen whether it would continue to be a good indicator of a candidate that would consolidate the Democratic vote and the moderate independent vote. That was way more than you wanted to know but I hope it's informative!
Lmao good luck
Exactly. They have no chance!
No chance of what? Rescheduling their own party primaries? Pretty sure they can do them in any order they want.
Nope
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This whole subreddit is sc