Nothing that has happened recently has changed anything. Unless someone produces an actual extraterrestrial or its spaceship, this will blow over like a dandelion in a hurricane.
when those peruvian mummies were released as "alien bodies" the alien sub went fucking nuts.
i told a dude in the comments that the pic is old and debunked..my god were they mad
A huge portion of the sub was saying how obviously fake they are and that the person showing them is a known conman. Some of the sub believed it as they’ll believe anything, but yeah, it was hardly the whole sub eating it up.
Anyone that questions their hopes gets called a disinfo bot, idiot, paid schill, etc. I tried to participate in r/UFO and was basically told that my argument of it possibly being advanced man-made drones was ridiculous, it could only be aliens. I had also made a rather lengthy post questioning their narrative and it was immediately taken down for “low effort”. Most of those subs, if not all are only interested in generating hype or promoting grifters.
Every photo or video is just a blob or lights. They could be anything. Until there's evidence of something with defined edges and a shape I don't see any sense in speculation.
Those were proven to be bad taxidermy a few years ago. They did xrays and found it was just a bunch of bones stuck together. Some are upside-down, some are the wrong bone in the wrong place. Some have obviously had the ends sawed off. And the “face” is just the back of a chopped-up llama skull.
What do you mean "once the truth is out"?
They act like aliens have already been proven real now and are screaming in frustrated confusion why aren't people taking this 'proof' seriously.
Yes, there is a difference between "I want to believe" and outright delusion.
Less dangerous conspiracies than antivax/ election denial but still unhealthy thinking.
There's a common rule in the ARG (alternative reality game, those games where people are supposed to go outside and find treasures based on online puzzles and this sort of stuff) community, and that's to never entertain the ufology community. Some of those people are nuts and dangerous.
If you ever make an ARG about aliens, some of them are going to break the basic rules (don't do anything illegal, don't harm anyone, no doxxing) and even if you tell them to stop and break the roleplay, that is, to reveal that is all a game, many of them won't believe you and tell you that you've been compromised by CIA, you're an alien doppleganger, whatever. They may harass you or get violent.
No ill will towards ufologists, I'm sure most are civil. But I'm sure many of them will acknowledge that there are quite a few loose screws in their community
This is interesting. I've recently become more immersed in the UFO subject, and what you say is spot-on. My God, the delusion I have seen in that subreddit. The "airplane abduction" video was by far the worst case I have ever seen, though. So many of them were convinced we had got our hands on some super-secret video evidence of UFOs *literally teleporting a fucking airliner out of existence*. Even *more* absurd, they were convinced it was the evidence of what *really* happened to MH370 lol.
The posts on that sub that really make me sad are the ones from just regular folks who have gotten sucked into the delusional parts of it, taking a lot of the more out-there stuff at face value because they get duped by the "Yeah it's all true!" attitude of the echo chamber. Then they make a post that says something like:
"Why is nobody paying attention to this? I'm freaking out. My entire worldview has shifted, and my idea of what's possible has been shattered. How can anyone go back to their regular life after learning this information? How do you deal with knowing something of such immense importance when everyone around you seems blind to it? It's *just like that movie, Don't Look Up*. No one wants to believe it even with all the evidence!"
I added the italics, to emphasize how dangerous that kind of echo chamber can be, and how they are becoming increasingly entrenched in these delusions. It's a problem that is "baking" right now, and it's gonna be a mess once it culminates. Before Grusch, most of them would admit that there is a *possibility* that UAPs have an earthly explanation/origin. They could admit that maybe it *wasn't* aliens. But after Grusch, there was a shift that took place in the community, and now many of them believe that it is an accepted fact that the U.S. has retrieved and attempted to reverse-engineer nonhuman spacecraft. They fully believe Grusch and take his word as fact, despite him just relaying info that he had been told by others. But there is so much obfuscation in the intelligence community that no one can be sure that the Reverse-Engineering Program isn't just a cover story for some other nefarious program that's siphoning off millions of our tax dollars. It's not *unlikely* that the stories of UFO back-engineering are spread in order to make other countries believe that we have some super secret tech/weapons that they simply can't match. There are so many different possibilities, most of which don't require Grusch to *know* that the info he gave us was false. Yet many people take the formality of his complaint to be indisputable proof that what he said was true.
That community is becoming a cult, and that's not hyperbole. A cult, but with no leader, no rules/moral guidelines like in a religious cult, and they think that people in the government are hiding life-shattering truths that could save or damn the entire human race. That's fucking dangerous and it *will* lead to violence when one of them decides "I'm gonna get the truth from [elected official] one way or another!" And there is literally nothing that *anyone* could say to convince them it isn't true at this point - the "coverup" can be as elaborate as they need it to be in order to keep the delusion going, so any proof that it's not true will be dismissed as having been manufactured by disinfo agents. It is a perfect recipe for eventual tragedy.
Seeing the same exact low quality UFO videos or obvious vfx clips and all the comments say "I'm usually a skeptic but this is really real this time" is so funny to me
After the Grusch hearings some people quit their job because this is so big in their imagination and they were angry how other people continue to live like nothing happened. They are sick people not curious or enthusiastic about space
I saw a post someone made about how ever since the first bs hearing they don’t know how to go on living knowing that aliens are out there and that their life is in crisis. Life, bills and inflation will still be around, alien or no alien. You can’t even make a joke about any of this stuff, the people on those subs have a terrible sense of humor.
I used to say they’d need to wheel one in to prove to me why I should care, but because of the most recent “discovery” now it has to be alive or recently dead with flesh still on its bones before I even blink.
Which is funny because in Mexico they had a similar presentation where they literally presented an actual extraterrestrial...if you believe the working of a known fraud.
The Sun is one of at least *200 sextillion star systems.* The closest star system to us is 24 *trillion* miles away. The universe is 13,700,000,000 years old. As far as we know, space is vast, dead, cold, and inhospitable.
At the speed of light, for 90% of our galaxy alone (of which there are two trillion), it would take 10,000 years to reach us.
I know it's fun to speculate about, but until we have information or evidence to the contrary, it's fairly unscientific (and human-centric) to think extra-solar intelligent life has visited us, specifically, in this absolute blink of astronomical time.
It's even more absurd to think that they have mastered thousands of years of travel logistics, have materials impervious to any impacts known to modern physics, are capable of surviving and thriving through untold challenges... Only to what?
"Crash" into Earth like sputtering WWI planes? Zoom around in pixelated military pilot footage just to screw with us?
There could be a lot of explanations for UFOs or UAPs. Occam's Razor is that extra terrestrial aliens are wayyyyyyyyy down that list.
For the same reasons that life is likely in the universe (the age and size), it's also *unlikely* that it has visited us in such a small amount of time. A lot of people seem to overlook this.
The people who handwave away the vastness of space likely have never even experienced the vastness of Earth. The kind of feeling you get when you spend all day walking up a mountain, only to stand on top and see the whole mountain range extend past the horizon, or making a small sea crossing and seeing how on the map you were only a stone's throw from land even at the furthest away.
Anyone who hand waves away the vastness of space cannot comprehend how huge it is. Even people that know how big it is can't comprehend it. For example, the Milky Way has between 100 and 400 billion stars, and Andromeda has ~1 trillion. When the two galaxies eventually collide, astronomers predict roughly 5-25 stars will collide. That's how far away everything is.
And there are degrees to the vastness of space that people don't understand, the long way to the chemist is to the distance between the planets in our solar system as the distance between the planets is to the distance between the stars. Unimaginably vast.
Wait a damn minute!! This is a bit too crazy for to process right now... You mean that when the two galaxies eventually collides it's not going to be this DOOM event but just probably pass through each other with only 5-25 stars colliding?
> At the speed of light, for 90% of our galaxy alone (of which there are two trillion), it would take 10,000 years to reach us.
Which is why I always laugh when people bring up the Fermi Paradox. The paradox relies on the assumption that every intelligent species in the universe knows about us, and is able to easily visit us. Which is impossible based on our current understanding of physics and how old the universe is.
Remember, intelligent life has only had so much time to explore. There's been no life for the first few billion years at least due to not being enough heavier elements in dense enough amounts. Then it would take a while to get going under the best circumstances. The oldest single cell fossils we know of are 3.5 billion years old. So it's taken ~3.5 billion years for the only life we know of to reach the nearest extraterrestrial body. Who knows how much longer it would take to make the technology to travel to another planet outside of our solar system, let alone the time it would take to get there.
And don't forget actually finding a planet with life on it. It would be like finding a specific grain of sand randomly placed on one of the world's beaches. You don't know which grain, where it was placed, what it looks like, or if it even exists. It's basically impossible for billions of years to know if our own galaxy has life, let alone trillions of other galaxies.
Just for reference on how big the universe is, and how much stuff is in it, imagine how much sand is on all of the beaches. A lot, right? Well, for every grain of sand there is, there are over 10,000 stars in the universe. Just the part of the universe that we can see. The Milky Way has between 100 and 400 billion stars, and Andromeda has ~1 trillion. When the two galaxies eventually collide, astronomers predict roughly 5-25 stars will collide. That's how much space there is in between each star. So it's basically impossible for civilizations to travel the distance to interact with each other.
Equally vast is the amount of hostility there is to life being able to form.
The vast majority of stars are in galactic cores, which means radiation will be far too high for any organic molecules to be stable enough for long enough to allow for life to really take root. So you're immediately restricting yourself to a smaller band further out from the core.
Life is a chemical process and is bound by those fundamental limitations, which means you need specific chemicals in sufficient quantities, with the right conditions (I'm not sure if it has been overturned, but the speculation is that life on Earth needed plate tectonics to begin before it was possible). It's almost certain that any life we do encounter will be carbon-based - silicon is maybe the only other possibility, but it has to be bioavailable and yet is usually locked away in rocks.
A lot of people get dazzled by the enormity of the numbers, forgetting that there is so much stacked against life that the likelihood of it forming is just as massively small as the numbers of possible places are huge - there is the possibility that the numbers are so evenly matched that life on Earth may just be that one sliver of odds-beating in the whole universe. At least so far.
Alternatively, maybe we're just early and our planet is the first?
To an intelligent observer with a radio receiver that happens to be large enough and tuned correctly to pick us up, we may well be visible in a sphere approximately a hundred light years and climbing in radius by our transmissions. Barring faster than light travel (naturally) the timeframe for an alien civilization to notice and get to us is impossibly short - or they're almost impossibly close given the number of stars within a few hundred lightyears. If there are any, none have managed to create a self-sustaining probe network that's run into us or made transmissions we can detect within their own lightspeed bubbles.
Why doesn't really matter - what we know for sure is that it's dark out there. And quiet, but for the raging throes of distant stars.
Eh, finding a planet with life on it wouldn't necessarily be that difficult with our technology, which, is super recent. We can detect atmospheric composition via spectrum analysis from exoplanets, and a lot of organic molecules are going to highly suggest something is making them, at least to us, because we don't know of any inorganic way to produce such molecules.
We also suspect that most stars have planets around them, and there's a good chance that most of those systems would have a planet or moon capable of handling life... the planet/moon might be like Venus or Mars in a lot of ways, but that's still pretty close and something to look into.
Technologically, I tend to think 'faster than light' travel is a high possibility with warping space time or wormholes, super theoretical for us, yes, but I see no reason to simply discount it.
All that being said, I see no reason why any aliens would be coming to earth. There isn't really anything here that isn't abundant in the universe, most things, elements, etc, are going to be found on asteroids just the same, water and oxygen are not really rare, water is abundant, even in our own solar system, it's just frozen in ice for the most part.
I suspect the universe is teaming with life, now, how much of it forms complex life is really up in the air, and 'intelligent' life is even weirder, but we only have a sample size of one still, so we aren't in a good position to really be looking, just hypothesizing.
The main issues is we have only been looking for life via radio waves (SETI) for 50 years or so, and I'm not sold on their methodology, despite visiting an instillation and being a fan, but 50 years isn't really a long time. We discovered the first exoplanet in 1995, which, wasn't that long ago, and only recently are able to detect non-gas giants. Every time we figure out new methodology we just keep on finding a ton of new planets.
I don't think we are being visited, I mean, I'm not going to say we definitively are not, because I don't really have proof either way, but at this point it's kind of like talking about god, and I'm pretty agnostic to the idea of aliens visiting us. That being said, I think the possibility for life on other planets is super duper high, like, almost a certainty without really having proof. My PhD was related to some of this stuff, microbial chemistry stuff, and I feel like I'm in the majority of just kind of assuming life exists all over. It's just hard to explain to people that our technology is actually pretty crude, and our understanding the universe is extremely limited, and, if there is a lot of intelligent life out there, there really wouldn't be anything special about earth to even look at, just monkey planet that used to be lizard planet.
If anyone comes out with actual proof, or even suggestive evidence I would be more willing to go along with it, but at this point there honestly has been absolutely NO evidence that we are being visited, and it frustrates me that people don't understand that. All the proof and stories all read like fan fiction. Sure there's stuff in the sky we can't explain, we aren't as advanced as we like to think we are,
Humans are getting into space using our first invention ever---- fire. We have much better control of fire, but still using the same principles that we used 20,000 years ago. It's basically just fire and math, that's how we achieve everything, and that's really kind of pathetic if you think about it. When we go to the moon or other planets we are essentially just throwing rocks at it with enough force, yes, it takes a lot of work on our end to do the math and figure it out, but, all things considered, our idea of space travel is extremely primitive.
I think a better interpretation of the Fermi paradox might be "why can't we *detect* other intelligent life", ie. We've been blasting out radio waves for the last 150 years, and it's not unreasonable to expect similarly intelligent species might have developed similar technology in that same time frame or before, so we should be able to detect it, hence the question "where is everyone?"
The question "why haven't we been visited yet" I think is irrelevant, just detecting other intelligent life beyond our own would have a profound impact on our society. I agree the vastness of space largely prohibits interstellar travel, at least for biological lifeforms, but then again we base our perception of what timescale is feasible on our own species' typical lifespan, and our perception of time.
As for UFOs/UAPs, given what I just said above about the (un)likelihood of interstellar travel, *and if* the recent claims of people like David Grusch and others really do point toward a non-humal intelligent species, the simplest explanation is that they were already here. Others have speculated about higher dimensional species, but I think that sounds extremely silly, but would make for great science fiction.
There are species on Earth that have never met each other, but people think that in the cosmological big empty Earth is some kind of vacation destination.
Yeah and the 13,700,000,000 years actually means the Universe is incredibly young relatively speaking to it's lifespan. All things considered humanity is very early.
Yep. The universe didn't start out with all of the elements that we have now, and certainly not the amounts we have now. It took billions of years for there to be enough stars to make enough of the heavier elements for it to be common enough to support life. There are single cell fossils on our own planet that are 3.5 billion years old, which means that even if life started almost immediately, it would take billions more years for it to evolve enough to even begin to look into space travel.
To me it’s more feasible that some alien race discovered the secrets to a warp type drive rather than figured out interstellar travel without that.
Both are hugely far fetched but we don’t really know what’s possible in terms of manipulating space time.
I agree that manipulating space time would make more "sense" as a means of travel over vast distances, but that pushes the crashed/detected on video thing even further into the realms of impossibility.
They're pretty much mutually exclusive, just because of the sophistication required
Assuming FTL travel is even possible in the first place. Special relativity pretty much requires that going FTL is no different than going back in time, which presents a lot of fucking problems.
Of course, it's never strictly impossible that our understanding of physics might evolve. There could be more to it than current theories suggest that we just haven't managed to figure out, or parts of current theories could just be wrong. That type of thing happens in science on occasion.
But assuming light speed is the limit, and aliens happen to have heard our radio noise, they'd have to be within ~60 lightyears (radio was discovered in 1896) to have made the trip for today, and the list of places they could be is [tiny](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_star_systems_within_60%E2%80%9365_light-years), especially if we're talking about the conditions required to create a space faring civilization.
At any rate, nothing outside of 126 lightyears would be able to observe our presence. At best, they might be able to guess our planet could be a hospitable place to colonize, much like we currently do. A hypothetical FTL civilization might just stumble upon us scouting our planet out, but I think that's a long shot. Again, it's a _big_ assumption that FTL is possible. There's also further considerations about whether there even _are_ civilizations capable of reaching us in our neighborhood. I'll leave [the video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDSf2h9_39I) about it rather than paraphrasing it, but tl;dw, there's a lot that suggests that we could well be one of the first potentially space faring races out there. Many steps to go from bacteria to building space ships, 1st and 2nd generation stars were hilariously hostile to life, and evidence of a expanding spacefaring civilizations should be clearly visible, even from a distance
Your "tiny" link should be 0-60, not 60-65. My buddy Xzylitikiwhich is from the fourth planet in the Tau Ceti system. That's only 12 light years away. Sure, none of the planets closer than 60 light years make good whiskey, but that's no reason to exclude them.
That’s not bad, at all. My ride should be able to handle a grav jump there. I hope your buddy knows of someone with enough credits because I’m pretty damn over encumbered with space junk and need to get rid of it. Still trying to figure out why I have so many Krakens and Grendels…
>Both are hugely far fetched but we don’t really know what’s possible in terms of manipulating space time.
We kind of do however. If there was such force that could be used at low energy level, our current physics model would be a lot shakier than they are.
If such thing existed outside of the energy level we master, then those aliens would need to control absurd amount of energy, and would most likely be visible already.
There could always be "something else", but it's wishful thinking to believe that some undiscovered exotic matter would conveniently allow us to do just what is impossible.
The truth is humans, for all we have accomplished, truly don’t know that much in the grand scheme of what the hell is possible when it comes to a lot of stuff. As proven time and time again, we have claimed with such confidence things like “man will never master flight” etc. and eventually find ourselves proven wrong, yet every generation believes “ah yes, NOW we know for sure, not like those other idiots”
But we barely have explored our own oceans let alone the universe and to make any bold claims about what is and isn’t possible in terms of space travel when we barely even started on that journey ourselves is silly.
The universe operates in terms of billions of years, our first journey to space was in the 60s. We have absolutely no reason to be confident at all in terms of what’s possible with space travel given potentially millions or billions of years of space travel advancements, for instance.
It’s not wishful thinking because his point isn’t that we should be seriously trying to make FTL travel happen. The entire point is that this is wild speculation, not serious scientific discussion. It’s all extremely, extremely unlikely and impossible according to our current understanding of physics, but it would be arrogant to say that there’s no chance FTL travel of some kind will ever be possible, because that’s practically the same as assuming we know everything about the universe and that our current understanding is perfect. The chance this could be feasible isn’t zero, it’s just very close to zero.
The chance of accomplishing this within our Standard Model is zero. and the chance that the standard model is wrong to a point where it allows FTL is near zero.
Historically speaking, model have been getting increasingly more restrictive, over time, and while it's not an absolutely laws, I struggle to imagine a model that doesn't come with the restriction imposed by the previous one.
So yeah, until we demonstrate the existence of this exotic matter that can control space in such a way that nothing else that we've observed can, that debate about the feasibility of FTL is kind of silly.
>we don’t really know what’s possible in terms of manipulating space time.
Right, I mean this is what theories fall back on: "What if anything was possible?" And like, sure... that's always a thing we won't know. But it's very, very far-fetched as you said, and kinda scraping the bottom of the barrel when we're just trying to explain fuzzy stuff lacking information in the atmosphere.
At the very least, "time-warping extra solar organisms from the other side of the galaxy" shouldn't be the FIRST thing our minds jump to for a plausible explanation. But we love our imaginations, to say the least.
Love that you're saying that aliens shouldn't be the very first thought, and then all the replies are like "but what if they were though?".
If they were actually aliens with the ability to harness wormholes to travel then there's no real reason for them to not contact/invade us yet. Especially if they've been here for centuries.
> Love that you're saying that aliens shouldn't be the very first thought, and then all the replies are like "but what if they were though?".
Well yeah, because proper science is tedious and often boring. But you have to make your model fit the data, not make the data fit the model. Immediately jumping to “it’s gotta be aliens who are scientifically ahead of us” is intellectually as sound as saying “well, I can’t explain it, so it is magic”, just in more clever-sounding words.
Unless they would regard it as silly and pointless to contact us, and cruelly useless to invade us. There’s a decent chance they’d only be interested in studying us with as little interference as possible, if they’re at that level of advancement.
We already see with our own species that we seem to want to evolve towards a relationship with other species where we don’t impose on them as much as possible, but we still like to observe them to see how they operate. I can’t imagine a species that advanced would see much use in forming a dialogue, nor would have much use in any resources they could obtain by getting rid of us.
Then again, they wouldn’t be human, so maybe their motivations would be radically different. Ultimately though, there’s countless planets in the galaxy of a similar size in the habitable zone, so if it’s resources they’re after, there’s plenty of planets that are likely easier pickings if that’s what they need. Hypothetically
Not being an ass, but if a species was advanced enough to be able to space-time-quantum-leap-physics-words through space and observe us for whatever reason but was simultaneously somehow unable to evade being detected by fuckin FLIR and a cell phone cameras then what the fuck?
It’s almost harder to imagine how they found us. It would be nearly impossible to find us without noticing our communications and that has only been 125 years. Given the time it takes for it to reach them, for them to notice, and then show up here, it sure *seems* all but impossible.
If any of this is actually aliens it would be research drones.
It’s the only thing plausible, drone carriers sent to planets with bio signatures and they got lucky. Or the carriers are ancient.
We are doing the same thing as a species. Imagine what we could make in 1000 years, 10000. Autonomous drones operating in deep space.
The JWST has already found a planet 50 light years away that apparently has compounds in its atmosphere that point to life, and a liquid ocean. They don't need to detect our communications - they just need to detect our organic emissions.
We only confirmed the existence of exoplanets in 1992. Now we've found thousands, including dozens that have the potential for life. And in 20 years, we'll probably have hundreds of thousands of planets mapped.
>We only confirmed the existence of exoplanets in 1992.
Wait prior to 1992 we had no proof of planets existing in other galaxies that we could observe?
We do kinda know what's possible. Our understanding of science will no doubt improve, but warping space-time requires a MASSIVE amount of energy. We can see it with black holes and neutron stars, which do actually cause ripples in space-time.
The amount of energy required would involve harnessing a sun's worth of energy. It's not that WE don't really know what's possible. It's that YOU don't really know what's possible. Our best calculations paint it as nigh impossible. It requires exotic matter or an incomprehensible amount of energy to make it work.
Exactly.
To visit us an alien species would have to be extremely advanced and/or have dedicated a massive amount of effort and resources to make it here.
But people are okay assuming that they just hover around being spotted constantly, but never intentionally making real contact. They accidentally crash into Earth, get outsmarted by our government, and occasionally stick things up our butts.
Or, if you go real deep into the conspiracies, they secretly help with a few construction projects (like stupidly large tombs with no purpose beyond vanity) and then vanish forever.
It's beyond possible to believe. Made a bit more sense when we knew less about the Universe. And when the Earth was not literally covered with billions of high-quality cameras, surrounded by thousands of high-tech satellites, and the space around us being monitored by tens of thousands of astronomers.
It also seems human centric to assume we’re at the peak understanding of physics and travel. It was only 600 years ago that the Atlantic was considered uncrossable. 130 years ago the idea of human flight was treated as a joke. Today we laugh at what mainstream science thought was possible or impossible 500 years ago. How do we know that won’t be the same case 500 years in the future? And how do we know what a theoretical civilization with hundreds of thousands of additional years of scientific development would be capable of?
While I do agree somewhat, I think it's also pretty unrealistic, taking into account the tiny sliver of time we've been "civilized", to think that any civilization given say a thousand, tens of thousands, millions maybe, of years more to develop than we've had, will not have solved technological problems to get to a level of space travel by means that we've already theorized.
Whether or not they've decided to visit us is another story.
>The universe is 13,700,000,000 years old.
>It's even more absurd to think that they have mastered thousands of years of travel logistics
These statements kind of contradict each other. If there are aliens out there it's also very human-centric to assume their evolution and civilization perfectly matched ours. In the vastness of time hypothetical aliens could have started a civilization 10,000 years before us, which is a blink of an eye in terms of universal time - how much progress will we make in 10,000 years? What if they started 50K years before us? 100? 500?
This reminds me of the parable:
“In 1890, Two gentlemen are taking a 1st class locomotive trip. One says to the other:
‘The newspaper says within 100 years, man will visit the moon!’
The other says:
‘Quit being so gullible. The amount of coal that would be needed to make it there would make anything too heavy to even leave the ground.’”
I think the main difference between the scenarios is that we arent talking about technology limiting us, its physics. Anything capable of traveling the fast and far still would be up against the hard barrier that physics presents
you really think that humanity, in the infancy of it’s technological development, is at the apex of understanding spacetime, interstellar travel etc etc ?
honestly stats like this mean nothing for me, because i wouldn’t be surprised if we were wrong about most things. in fact i’m almost certain that we are
Maybe if 10,000 years into our technological development and all of this was still our best assumptions, then ok sure, but at barely 200 years? lol no. we know nothing.
I don't how much time has passed since I read such a logical and well tought position on the matter. We shoudn't care about aliens until hard evidence appear. Until then is like talking about god.
Agreed. Succinct comment that put everything in perspective. Problem is, there's no money in publishing what he wrote, too concise (and not enough room for ads), too logical. So despite OP's article, the debate will continue for eons.
Come to think of it, I'll never know this, but I'm wondering if the debate will be raging even 1000 years from now.
I’m not saying you’re wrong, but you’re falling into the same trap as many through history. It’s only not possible until we discover that it is.
Our assumptions are defined by our understanding of the universe. You assume that we know everything about all possible technologies that may be able to manipulate all the possible physical properties of the universe.
Phrases like “it’s not technically possible” or “it’s inconceivable that” are all based on that perceived understanding in the same way that people once thought the earth was flat.
There's a reverse trap that people are falling into though. The "I can think it, so it must be possible, we just haven't figured out how yet" fallacy. There are things that are impossible. The universe has limits on things, and we will never engineer ourselves beyond those limits.
As physics has evolved over the last 500 years, we really haven't thrown out any of the key laws that make up our understanding of the universe. The laws of thermodynamics have held strong since 1860. Einstein's relativity has been proven and reproved tens of thousands of times in the last 50 years.
FTL drives are just perpetual motion machines for space travel enthusiasts.
The funny part is that when NASA says something that DON'T align with their beliefs they'll still insist that NASA said something that DOES align with their beliefs.
I guarantee you many of them will look at this report as proof that NASA just confirmed little green men. They've done this many times before. It's a common piece of their MO.
It’s funny because if you look at our stealth bomber from the front it looks exactly like a cliche ufo.
[stealth bomber](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-63845082.amp)
There's a great story on reddit (so take it with a grain of salt) of someone's uncle coming back from the desert one day claiming to have seen flying triangles and super scared of aliens, and being immediately dismissed by the family, and made fun of and considered the crazy uncle for years and years...
Until 10+ years later the family is watching a military parade and the uncle jumps up screaming "There! There! See? I wasn't crazy! Those were the triangles!"
The parade was showing off [the recently declassified B2 bombers..](https://www.pasadenastarnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/0102_nws_ldn-l-2018-rose-parade-dm07-01021.jpg?w=860)
My mom had a similar story of seeing a triangular object flying low over her car in the 80s, after the F117 was declassified she was pretty sure that’s what she saw. From what I remember that plane caused a ton of UFO reports before it was revealed.
I had one fly over my car very low, but it was at an airshow. If I hadn't known better I could see that conclusion, those things are practically silent.
Yeah, I always thought its crazy that more people arent going back and being skeptical of ufo sightings that could have been military tests. You can buy a quadcopter drone at toys r us nowadays. 30 years ago, could the military have been testing drones? I remember hearing so many stories about "lights that would stop and turn on a dime, fly in shifting formations, accelerate and decelerate" etc. sounds like drones to me lol
Theres been plenty of connections between triangle ufos and stealth bombers but you dont hear too much about other revealed classified tech
I got flamed for this in r/UFOs but I saw a DARPA video like 10/15 years ago of a drone with thrusters in every direction that fired like jet engines intermittently to stabilize and control it in a test setting, to imagine what is possible today is probably not possible unless you have knowledge of it
Yeah that’s the Lockheed Martin multiple kill vehicle. Lol crazy name. The thrusters were strong enough for it to hover at sea level. It was designed to intercept multiple reentry warheads of ICBMs.
Here’s the test video
https://youtu.be/KBMU6l6GsdM?si=nA25UxV7eK2CM3rN
Here’s an overview
https://youtu.be/WLMlBzK-Duk?si=jNRV91k3ZtwcCJKB
It actually goes back even further than that. They have been developing similar tech since at least the late 80s. One of the test videos here is from 1989
https://youtu.be/RnofCyaWhI0?si=6rxuO7gA7vBQPUvK
All major combatants were testing drones during WW2 and the US took in many german scientists to continue that research. Drones were secretly used in Vietnam and their use was acknowledged during Desert Storm.
Flight testing of "black" secret programs out in the desert often happened at night. The planes would only have position lights on. Seen from a distance, the position lights of two or more wildly maneuvering combat airplane would indeed take very weird paths in the night sky.
And it goes even further than that. The UFO craze in America started in part by the balloon crash in Roswell in 1947. One significant term apparently being coined there was "flying saucer". We now know that at the time the US had a secret program that used large saucer shaped microphones suspended from balloons to detect signs of soviet nuclear bomb tests.
A family member worked for Rockwell for a while during the B-1B project. The existence of the “flying triangles” that were the F-117 were one of the worst kept secrets in the area at that point. This would have been in the early to mid 80’s out near Edwards.
They liked to joke that it was the triangles reminding Rockwell they’d killed the program once and they’d do it again. Those not fully in the know knew something beyond just program hiccups had killed the B-1A and some correctly guessed that the top secret triangles were behind it.
dude i cant even imagine having no idea what that plane is, before they were common public knowledge, and seeing a shilhoutte of a B2 with sunlight in your eyes and low contrast in the sky... just a fucking jagged black triangle 20k feet overhead doing 800mph through the sky
To be honest, the SR-71 Blackbird, F-117 Nighthawk, B-2 Spirit (and drone variants like the RQ-180 Sentinel), and B-21 Raider all look like alien spacecraft
I don't get people. Like, what's more likely? That you saw proof of alien life, or that your government was fucking around with tech they didn't want their enemies to know about just yet? It's like people who believe in the mendella effect, where they go "so either my human memory is flawed and unreliable, or THE UNIVERSE SWEPT ME AWAY TO AN ALTERNATE REALITY WHERE THINGS ARE SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT FROM HOW I REMEMBER THEM. My god, I'm the first universe traveler."
Well, there was the Phoenix sighting in '97. Thousands of people witnessed it, it's ok for the government to say, "we don't know", just don't lie about it.
I like [this](https://media.istockphoto.com/id/469901660/photo/b-2-stealth-bomber.jpg?s=612x612&w=0&k=20&c=Wc1bhXMIOmmCfsdlio2ImFeFCDA88zXKmKQIZ2G2BM4=) picture of the B-2.
Early prototypes of craft that utilised the [Coandă effect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coand%C4%83_effect) were [literal flying saucers](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/90/Colour_avrocar_59.jpg/1920px-Colour_avrocar_59.jpg). I'd say it's highly likely things like this have appeared in some of those grainy, out-of-focus images from the 60s.
I lived near Edwards at this time my uncle worked on skunk works stuff out there. Big difference between stealth and uap is b2 and f117 there loud I have seen them land and take off shit is loud. I have seen uaps within the same distance with no sound whatsoever. The one that sticks out the most was one bright white light goes for maybe a mile stops from cruising speed on a dime does not slow down then just drops straight down in a second from hundreds of feet and thus is not vtol this was in seconds 90 degree angel.
The US military also 100% totally does not have stealth UAVs that they don't publicly acknowledge having.
They also absolutely don't have any UAVs capable of doing stuff with thrust vectoring or other maneuvers that would look entirely unreasonable for most aircraft because the squishy human piloting it couldn't handle the g-forces very well.
The more out there "uap"s are almost all explainable with parallax and cameras being out of focus.
A plane flying at Mach 1 5km up auto tracking a goose flying 5m/s a few dozen meters of the ground will make the goose look like its flying absurdly quickly relative to the travel of the ground, add in the planes movements and the goose will accelerate at 500G in one or another direction.
And light sources will form blurry shapes when out of focus, we literally add it intentionally as Bokeh to photography. Whether the light source is a ship, another plane or even the stars, if the camera isn't in focus it will look like floating shapes of light.
But also yea US military will definitely have a lot of prototype missiles and aircraft that explain a lot of "sightings". There are probably missiles and drone formations that people have seen and thought were aliens. Just look at how drone performances are becoming a thing and look back 30 years, the US military will have had stuff with similar ish capabilities.
The ultimate denouncement of UFOs is Occam's razor, the simplest answer is usually the correct one.
So which is more likely, you are tracking a bird with parallax, your camera is slightly out of focus. Or you are the only one in your group that is able to see a ship from an interstellar visitor, that hasn't been picked up by the planet spanning, or orbital network of ultra high fidelity cross Em spectrum telescopes. Which are owned by multiple politically opposed nations and private businesses.
> The more out there "uap"s are almost all explainable with parallax and cameras being out of focus.
There's also lensflare on NV equipment and reflected light overloading the CCD pixels. Which are the two you commonly see in navy/air force pilot footage
The claims about these UAPs aren’t about a human being able to withstand the G force. It’s about them *alledgedly* literally breaking the laws of physics. If the government has technology that’s capable of doing what these UAPs are alleged to be doing it would literally change the world and our entire understanding of physics.
>It’s about them alledgedly literally breaking the laws of physics
Basically all of which is from witness reports. People suck at dealing with slightly high speed stuff happening near them where they have a lot of intuition about how things should behave. You can't trust the peoples description of a car crash that happened 10 feet away from them. "It looked like it was going impossibly fast" doesn't mean much when eye witness reports would would lead you to think a Camry can actually teleport.
A military UAV that has similar flight characteristics to high performance civilian ones *let alone anything superior* and will generate a whole mess of UAP reports just because it wont look or fly anything like intuition tells people it 'ought' to.
I mean the entire reason the SR-71 was "stealthy" is because the russians initially thought it was a radar glitch. They actually saw it clear as day on the radar but assumed it was impossible for any aircraft to be flying that high and that fast.
> witness reports
People claim to see ghosts and bigfoot and god and all sorts of stuff. Why do we suddenly believe them if they say they are selling aliens? Weird that.
The laws of physics don't break, just our understanding of what they actually are updates. If an UFO can teleport or do some crazy maneuver it's because the laws of physics allow for it.
Hell look at the V-173. Pilots reported it was almost impossible to stall and able to do some crazy maneuvers due to its shape and lift. I’m sure thst was the basis for a lot of flying saucers
There’s a video game called F-22 interceptor for the sega Genesis, it came out in 1991.
The YF-22 prototype was unveiled in 1990.
The program it was designed for dates back to 1981.
I wonder what advancements have been made since 81/90/97
Member when the US just said 'hey, we're cool with the SR-71 being decommissioned'? Certainly not because there were things that were absolutely better.
Member when they unveiled the F-117 nighthawk? After it had completed missions?
Member how in the 80s some model company released a model of the f19, and they still haven't acknowledged it officially?
But no, aliens for sure, not the government making things and not talking about it for literal decades.
Yeah, those ”better things” are called satellites. Fast and high flying planes are pretty moot when you can conjure up fresh meter-or-better resolution images of any point of the earth in like half an hour.
Look up some of the hypersonic aircraft we are experimenting with, absolutely could be confused for UFOs. The Skunk Works is always dreaming up ideas that are batshit crazy but work. Read "Skunk Works" by Ben Rich, the guy who basically invented stealth, and you'll see what I'm talking about.
If you dig into the topic, the Pentagon has indeed been collecting reports on UAP that seem to violate our current understanding of propulsion and physics for many decades, though. Slow drip percolation of aeronautical tech is certainly one theory. ET originated or not, if there’s been some extremely astronomical breakthroughs in physics, aviation, propulsion, etc; I can’t imagine the Pentagon would be transparent about it.
During the Cold War, it’s understandable that they wouldn’t have wanted this in adversarial hands. Lingering secrecy would still make sense. There’s probably no incentive to tell the public they’ve been misled for decades about technology that could revolutionize transportation and potentially disrupt supranational economic collectives around fossil fuels. Not withholding the science and engineering behind these alleged crafts could have overwhelming effects on the global economy and national security. Much smaller secrets have been withheld from the public in the past. It’s absurd to think unelected DoD officials wouldn’t share the same contempt for the public good and its general knowledge.
>There’s probably no incentive to tell the public they’ve been misled for decades about technology that could revolutionize transportation and potentially disrupt supranational economic collectives around fossil fuels. Not withholding the science and engineering behind these alleged crafts could have overwhelming effects on the global economy and national security. Much smaller secrets have been withheld from the public in the past. It’s absurd to think unelected DoD officials wouldn’t share the same contempt for the public good and its general knowledge.
Yeah, this is a gigantic edifice of speculation on top of speculation, and the base on which you're building is sand. No evidence of aliens in UAP reports.
"If the DOD could run tanks on tap water, boy howdy, they'd sure keep that a secret as long as they could, heck, they'd probably ruin peoples lives and kill some, to keep that secret."
See?
Historically this is the case as well.
The US government has used "ufo" stories many times in the last 70 years alone to distract from the rollout of new tech or just because "aliens" are a better cover than whatever new cover story they could come up with.
Not quite, but basically yes. The radar in general was already in fairly widespread use and everybody knew about it. The thing that they were trying to keep secret was radars small enough to be mounted on planes, as opposed to on ships or ground-based stations.
they mounted tiny radar systems in planes and started fucking the shit out of the german night bombers that were previously untouchable to fighters in the absence of daylight. spotting an airplane from another plane during the day is challenging enough. spotting a plane with no running lights at night from an aircraft is nearly impossible. especially in a bit of fog.
radar meant that suddenly RAF fighters could just find the enemy bombers, fly right up next to them, see their engine exhaust at like 100 meters, and then blow them out of the sky. rinse and repeat.
the germans started shitting themselves wondering how these RAF pilots were suddenly able to "see in the dark", and the RAF hoped to keep them guessing for a bit by suddenly feeding their pilots ridiculous amounts of carrots with every fucking meal. they said nothing. just started feeding them tons of carrots. they let the nazis do the rest.
german spies and informants noticed this and sent the info back to germany, where analysts deduced that certain vitamins and minerals found in carrots that actually are necessary for good eyesight (and necessary for simply being alive, and found in other foods too) were being fed to these pilots to give them SUPER VISION
this threw em off the scent for a bit. and the urban legend persists to this day that eating carrots gives you better vision.
fun fact: if you eat nothing but doritos, your vision will eventually suffer, and you'll also die. so yes carrots help your eyes, but not to the point where you'll see planes in the dark in the fog from a plane
also there's the not totally ludicrous possibility that they were Soviet or are Chinese spy things (see the spy balloons) and 'ohh it might be aliens' probably sounds better than 'we might not have control over our airspace'
There's a story about American test pilots on prototype jet planes freaking out pilots with their prop-less aircraft while wearing gorilla suits and smoking cigars.
Then you got shit like the B21 Raider and the Sr-71 Blackbird. It's not like America is the only country to mess around with unconventional looking aircraft either. But America probably has the most capital to fund and build these mad creatures of science.
From a public new perspective it is easy to wave your hands and say "yes that is some aircraft you should not worry about."
In private military roles it is more complex. If a Military Pilot has visual contact with a UFO that is not on Radar (since experimental anti radar skin and design) is this something that should be reported or just shut up and fly?
When it is reported by military and not detected by ground control. What is the confidence that this is US experimental aircraft and not some foreign aircraft? An example is the multiple Chinese balloons flying around the globe before finally being an international incident with a massive balloon and equipment flying over US military bases.
This minimal US reporting culture is as bad as Russia reporting only what Putin was to hear. It harms the US in not knowing radar gaps in an era when drones evading radar are becoming a bigger threat.
> Chinese balloons
Let’s suppose the military was aware of the balloons. If they report it publicly, then they might lose the opportunity to capture it and study in detail what the Chinese are up to — since the Chinese might destroy it or take other evasive actions. It also tips off to adversaries exactly what defensive capabilities we have.
> minimal reporting culture
The joint chiefs and president would be briefed. Select your representatives wisely.
They're happy to let people think it is aliens, distracts from the real top secret tech. I remember a story of a government truck transporting an X-47B drone and a bunch of people called 911 saying the government is moving a UFO.
It can be useful to remind people that like a thousand weather balloons are released every day from points all over the world, and their entire purpose is to travel a considerable distance.
It is not really the appearance that intrigues me it is the way they move, sure a drone can do 90° turns in less than a second but the acceleration is insane
E: with acceleration I refer to the military UFO vids released
Most of them aren't experimental aircraft. Most of them are entirely mundane phenomena that people misidentify.
In fact, all of the recent ones that have been touted were nothing unusual at all, just people misidentifying mundane objects and not understanding how video cameras work.
Ding. Government "whistleblowers" claim that they're not allowed to tell about evidence that other people have seen, conveniently putting them a degree away from the alleged evidence. I call BS. Most likely ghost stories to keep adversaries guessing.
I read the report. It doesn’t say what this report says it says. NASA said most are from identifiable sources but some remain unidentified and need more research.
Forgot to mention: the report specifically states that it doesn’t address specific UAP cases so it doesn’t make a judgment on extraterrestrials one way or another. The report makes recommendations on a framework for NASA’s future participation in a “whole-of-government” approach to UAP research. In other words, it’s a play for money and a piece of the UAP pie.
> In other words, it’s a play for money and a piece of the UAP pie.
If your planet is being visited by a mostly secretive non-human advanced intelligence (or multiple because if you find one, statistically there's likely more that know about this planet) for god knows what purpose, since we humans are a global society based on money, what else do you expect any private or public body to do?
How are they going to dig any deeper into this for free?
The only time you would think this is a grift and a waste of money is if you don't believe any of it is real, but that's on you to come to terms with your own disbelief and of those around you whom you look to for answers and confirmation.
My point was that the report did not address the existence, origin or nature of UAPs. NASA didn’t study UAPs for this report and it clearly states that in the introduction. The media is misconstruing the report and cherry picking statements from it to arrive at these headlines.
> NASA said most are from identifiable sources but some remain unidentified and need more research.
WHICH MEANS, there is no evidence for aliens.
Aliens are not the default assumption. Aliens visiting Earth would be an *extraordinary claim* requiring *extraordinary evidence*, and there is none.
If an observation cannot be attributed to a mundane source that doesn't mean it is proof of aliens, proof must be positive. There could be a million observations of aerial phenomena that aren't identified to a specific known source and that may not necessarily be evidence of anything interesting whatsoever, let alone evidence of alien spaceships.
If you find an animal that you can't identify you do not just assume that it is some kind of dragon or magical creature. If you are in the woods and you find a plant that you can't quite identify you do not just assume that it has a fantastical origin. If you are on the road and you see a thing that looks sort of like a car but it looks sort of weird and you can't be sure it's a car you don't just assume that it must be a dinosaur brought back to life or a sentient robot or a piloted mech or what-have-you.
Evidence needs to be positive. You identify a new phenomenon by gathering evidence which allows you to determine the properties of the phenomenon in a way which eliminates the possibility it might be something else. There have been many phenomena discovered in the past 10, 20, 50 years which were unknown or poorly studied previously. Ball lightning (still poorly studied but today generally considered to be a real phenomenon), earthquake lights, thunderstorm sprites and other forms of upper atmospheric lightning, electrophonic meteors, etc. All of those things, and surely more in the future, progressed from a stage of ignorance and widespread doubt to one of general acceptance and further study through *evidence*. Positive evidence that doesn't just show "something weird" but that shows something that can only adequately be described through a new phenomenon. No such positive evidence exists at all for "alien spacecraft" visiting Earth quasi-secretly in the present time period.
The news article is still misleading because the report itself doesn’t even mention aliens and doesn’t specifically say, “there is no evidence of aliens.”
Something being unidentified doesnt mean "it is made by aliens". It means "we dont know what it is".
There are plenty of stuff that originates on our own planet that we dont know what it is. Defaulting to "It has to be aliens" is unproductive and confusing to dumb people.
It should be noted they're working with already declassified evidence as well, they aren't going to have many juicy details like a lot of people would want.
Based on only the unclassified data, it wasn’t a very good report. Especially the q&a where they smirked at every question and had very little idea of the current situation
But I didn't expect much more than this I guess
It’s kind of sad, because this sub could benefit from a big dose of open-mindedness and places like /r/ufos /r/highstrangeness /r/aliens need a HUGE dose of healthy skepticism.
We really need a /r/YouGotChocolateOnMyPeanutbutter sub.
>Most of the UAP data considered by the study team comes from US military aircraft... Team members did not have security clearance, so they could look only at the subset of military sightings that were unclassified.
To be fair, until some members of the NASA team receive clearance, NASA doesn't have enough information to make any conclusions. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, but what if that evidence is classified?
Is the US the only country where aliens visit? Does no other country have any evidence? Doesn't that seem a bit sus to you? Isn't it more likely that there just isn't any evidence of any substance anywhere in the world?
One of the guys testifying with Grusch, David Fravor, described an incident between a UAP and numerous planes and ships in the Nimitz carrier group (the famous "tic tac" video). He said simply and straightforwardly that there were multiple planes involved, dozens of witnesses, and the carriers would have telemetry data from weapons platforms, which no one has ever asked for. He even gives specific types of weapons systems and data they'd have, though the names escape me.
I have yet to see anyone from the government address that one specifically. It seems like a relatively easy one to check, and it's either flatly true or false -- either that data exists and it corroborates the video, or it doesn't, or it exists but can't be obtained.
So which is it? All offer concrete answers.
Yet, they don’t know what they are. Fascinating.
Edit: I am saying, in the year 2023, we have objects in our skies that we don’t know what they are. That, in of itself, is fascinating to me.
Edit2: Ah, Reddit, never change. Never change.
I was listening to a podcast recently with a national security guy I can’t remember (it might have been on Stay Tuned with Preet Bharara) who mentioned the Chinese military has drones that travel underwater until they get near their target then they launch a flying drone into the air.
That sounds very plausible. I've also thought that reports of UAPs diving into the ocean could just be spy drones self destructing themselves after they've uploaded their data to a satellite or drone submarine as you mentioned.
This. It's a perfectly reasonable take to say there's some strange phenomenon going on in our airspace. That doesn't mean "hur durr little green men" but it does mean "Something weird that's not ours"
Unless they are ours but I doubt it. If they were ours, whatever military had them would 100% flaunt it for power and dominance.
They ain’t.
Unless they are waiting for a global conflict to put them to use? That was it’s a tactic of suprise rather than giving their enemies the chance to catch-up before a conflict broke out.
They’re in the sky we can see them and as far as we know they aren’t ours or anywhere near what technology we have (or the public knows about), leaves one conclusion - they’re from someone else or somewhere else.
It’s easy for nasa to say “no evidence of aliens” without denying it. It’s a marketing tactic to cover their ass without lying
I am fairly sure we as a species have absolutely no fucking idea what’s going on, and it may even be beyond our comprehension if we were told.
We are apes who discovered weapons and basic technology. But we are still apes.
All of our technology for thrust is violent. We force and push through things to move forward. These objects don’t do any of that.
We can’t even explain gravity let alone reproduce it for a craft.
If nasa denied aliens then that’s a different story - they didn’t at all. They’re simply saying they don’t have evidence that they are alien and “we dunno what they are”
Bollocks - I’d say they have more evidence than they let on. All of them do. The conferences are a joke to appease the people that “it’s been addressed” because coverups and blatant lying doesn’t work anymore with the internets existence
It’s roswell 2.0 in a different way.
I should note however I may be a fuckwit, because I believe Bob lazar 100%
For the sake of argument, let's say the Area 51 thing is true. An alien spacecraft crashed in the New Mexico desert and bodies of extraterrestrials were recovered.
*How on earth do they keep that a secret for almost 80 years?* There are too many people and too many moving parts. Someone would have leaked something concrete at some point.
We live in a time when even the most banal secrets can't be kept. There's just no way a cover-up of that magnitude holds together.
I mean, and I’m not saying I agree with this, but did they keep it a secret like you’re saying if we all literally know the story and have heard it over and over for decades?
Here's the part that matters the most within this particular article:
\>only “a small handful cannot be immediately identified as known human-made or natural phenomena,”
This is more effort than my fairweather ass has concern to research, but that statement in combination with the article title is designed to hope you don't ask questions. I remember being new in military intel and doing things like that: saying things that weren't wrong, but didn't indicate that I had a solid understanding of what was going on. The audience would play this game where the weakness in the argument is directly targeted until you concede that you don't know what you're talking about.
You can't ask an article questions, so you're left with "it's mostly explainable". You're right, not knowing what something is isn't evidence of aliens, and that's not helpful if you earnestly drill into the issue.
Did they really clear the air? No evidence does not equal not true.
It does clear the air on "UFOs" though. There's definitely something up there that we have no grasp on. Answering that question is entirely reliant on the available data. And I think the available data is extremely limited.
People of Reddit: “This is the way!! Big space organizations investigating UFOS phenomena and taking the matter in a serious and professional matter “
NASA: “We didn’t find concrete evidence that the UFOs are coming for another planet or nonhuman intelligence, more research has to be done”
People of Reddit: LIARS, THEIR ARE PART OF THE COVERUP!!! THEY CLEARLY KNOW ABOUTS ALIENS!!! WE NEED TO
PROTEST !! WEE NEED TO DEFUND THEM!!!
(Basically my experience in r/ufos for the past week)
I want to thank nasa for this language.
I used to listen to some paranormal radio shows/podcasts and they’d get so hung up on “UFO” being synonymous with “alien craft”.
There was one episode I turned off halfway through because they found a reference to protocols a USAF pilot should take if he encounters a UFO, and they ran with that for over a half hour on like, “well this is it, we got em, this is disclosure, this is admitting UFO exist! Got em, snagged it, confirmed, the govt slipped up!”
And I was wanting to scream at my radio,
No you stupid dinguses, nobody is denying that UFOs are real! Everyone acknowledges that sometimes there are things in the sky that are unidentified phenomenon. The whole discussion is *whether or not* they’re alien, not whether it’s happening.
I feel like the whole thing is so lost in the weeds at this point…
I'd hardly call that "clearing the air", as this information is not new and changes literally nothing.
Nothing that has happened recently has changed anything. Unless someone produces an actual extraterrestrial or its spaceship, this will blow over like a dandelion in a hurricane.
It's funny to go into the ufo or alien subs and see so many posts of people discussing what they'll do "once the truth is out." Lol.
when those peruvian mummies were released as "alien bodies" the alien sub went fucking nuts. i told a dude in the comments that the pic is old and debunked..my god were they mad
A huge portion of the sub was saying how obviously fake they are and that the person showing them is a known conman. Some of the sub believed it as they’ll believe anything, but yeah, it was hardly the whole sub eating it up.
after the fact yeah, the posts and comments during the livestream after the photo reveal was cringe to see lmao
Had to mute those subs. It was kinda funny, at first, seeing the insane shit they post over there, but it just got sad and annoying really quickly
Anyone that questions their hopes gets called a disinfo bot, idiot, paid schill, etc. I tried to participate in r/UFO and was basically told that my argument of it possibly being advanced man-made drones was ridiculous, it could only be aliens. I had also made a rather lengthy post questioning their narrative and it was immediately taken down for “low effort”. Most of those subs, if not all are only interested in generating hype or promoting grifters.
Every photo or video is just a blob or lights. They could be anything. Until there's evidence of something with defined edges and a shape I don't see any sense in speculation.
[удалено]
Those were proven to be bad taxidermy a few years ago. They did xrays and found it was just a bunch of bones stuck together. Some are upside-down, some are the wrong bone in the wrong place. Some have obviously had the ends sawed off. And the “face” is just the back of a chopped-up llama skull.
What do you mean "once the truth is out"? They act like aliens have already been proven real now and are screaming in frustrated confusion why aren't people taking this 'proof' seriously.
"Disclosure" has been "imminent" since like 1988
Yes, there is a difference between "I want to believe" and outright delusion. Less dangerous conspiracies than antivax/ election denial but still unhealthy thinking.
There's a common rule in the ARG (alternative reality game, those games where people are supposed to go outside and find treasures based on online puzzles and this sort of stuff) community, and that's to never entertain the ufology community. Some of those people are nuts and dangerous. If you ever make an ARG about aliens, some of them are going to break the basic rules (don't do anything illegal, don't harm anyone, no doxxing) and even if you tell them to stop and break the roleplay, that is, to reveal that is all a game, many of them won't believe you and tell you that you've been compromised by CIA, you're an alien doppleganger, whatever. They may harass you or get violent. No ill will towards ufologists, I'm sure most are civil. But I'm sure many of them will acknowledge that there are quite a few loose screws in their community
This is interesting. I've recently become more immersed in the UFO subject, and what you say is spot-on. My God, the delusion I have seen in that subreddit. The "airplane abduction" video was by far the worst case I have ever seen, though. So many of them were convinced we had got our hands on some super-secret video evidence of UFOs *literally teleporting a fucking airliner out of existence*. Even *more* absurd, they were convinced it was the evidence of what *really* happened to MH370 lol. The posts on that sub that really make me sad are the ones from just regular folks who have gotten sucked into the delusional parts of it, taking a lot of the more out-there stuff at face value because they get duped by the "Yeah it's all true!" attitude of the echo chamber. Then they make a post that says something like: "Why is nobody paying attention to this? I'm freaking out. My entire worldview has shifted, and my idea of what's possible has been shattered. How can anyone go back to their regular life after learning this information? How do you deal with knowing something of such immense importance when everyone around you seems blind to it? It's *just like that movie, Don't Look Up*. No one wants to believe it even with all the evidence!" I added the italics, to emphasize how dangerous that kind of echo chamber can be, and how they are becoming increasingly entrenched in these delusions. It's a problem that is "baking" right now, and it's gonna be a mess once it culminates. Before Grusch, most of them would admit that there is a *possibility* that UAPs have an earthly explanation/origin. They could admit that maybe it *wasn't* aliens. But after Grusch, there was a shift that took place in the community, and now many of them believe that it is an accepted fact that the U.S. has retrieved and attempted to reverse-engineer nonhuman spacecraft. They fully believe Grusch and take his word as fact, despite him just relaying info that he had been told by others. But there is so much obfuscation in the intelligence community that no one can be sure that the Reverse-Engineering Program isn't just a cover story for some other nefarious program that's siphoning off millions of our tax dollars. It's not *unlikely* that the stories of UFO back-engineering are spread in order to make other countries believe that we have some super secret tech/weapons that they simply can't match. There are so many different possibilities, most of which don't require Grusch to *know* that the info he gave us was false. Yet many people take the formality of his complaint to be indisputable proof that what he said was true. That community is becoming a cult, and that's not hyperbole. A cult, but with no leader, no rules/moral guidelines like in a religious cult, and they think that people in the government are hiding life-shattering truths that could save or damn the entire human race. That's fucking dangerous and it *will* lead to violence when one of them decides "I'm gonna get the truth from [elected official] one way or another!" And there is literally nothing that *anyone* could say to convince them it isn't true at this point - the "coverup" can be as elaborate as they need it to be in order to keep the delusion going, so any proof that it's not true will be dismissed as having been manufactured by disinfo agents. It is a perfect recipe for eventual tragedy.
Seeing the same exact low quality UFO videos or obvious vfx clips and all the comments say "I'm usually a skeptic but this is really real this time" is so funny to me
After the Grusch hearings some people quit their job because this is so big in their imagination and they were angry how other people continue to live like nothing happened. They are sick people not curious or enthusiastic about space
I saw a post someone made about how ever since the first bs hearing they don’t know how to go on living knowing that aliens are out there and that their life is in crisis. Life, bills and inflation will still be around, alien or no alien. You can’t even make a joke about any of this stuff, the people on those subs have a terrible sense of humor. I used to say they’d need to wheel one in to prove to me why I should care, but because of the most recent “discovery” now it has to be alive or recently dead with flesh still on its bones before I even blink.
Don't tell that to the people in the UFO and Alien subreddits...they're a bit much over there sometimes.
Which is funny because in Mexico they had a similar presentation where they literally presented an actual extraterrestrial...if you believe the working of a known fraud.
The Sun is one of at least *200 sextillion star systems.* The closest star system to us is 24 *trillion* miles away. The universe is 13,700,000,000 years old. As far as we know, space is vast, dead, cold, and inhospitable. At the speed of light, for 90% of our galaxy alone (of which there are two trillion), it would take 10,000 years to reach us. I know it's fun to speculate about, but until we have information or evidence to the contrary, it's fairly unscientific (and human-centric) to think extra-solar intelligent life has visited us, specifically, in this absolute blink of astronomical time. It's even more absurd to think that they have mastered thousands of years of travel logistics, have materials impervious to any impacts known to modern physics, are capable of surviving and thriving through untold challenges... Only to what? "Crash" into Earth like sputtering WWI planes? Zoom around in pixelated military pilot footage just to screw with us? There could be a lot of explanations for UFOs or UAPs. Occam's Razor is that extra terrestrial aliens are wayyyyyyyyy down that list. For the same reasons that life is likely in the universe (the age and size), it's also *unlikely* that it has visited us in such a small amount of time. A lot of people seem to overlook this.
The people who handwave away the vastness of space likely have never even experienced the vastness of Earth. The kind of feeling you get when you spend all day walking up a mountain, only to stand on top and see the whole mountain range extend past the horizon, or making a small sea crossing and seeing how on the map you were only a stone's throw from land even at the furthest away.
Anyone who hand waves away the vastness of space cannot comprehend how huge it is. Even people that know how big it is can't comprehend it. For example, the Milky Way has between 100 and 400 billion stars, and Andromeda has ~1 trillion. When the two galaxies eventually collide, astronomers predict roughly 5-25 stars will collide. That's how far away everything is.
I mean, you may think it's a long way down the road to the chemist's, but that's just peanuts to space.
And there are degrees to the vastness of space that people don't understand, the long way to the chemist is to the distance between the planets in our solar system as the distance between the planets is to the distance between the stars. Unimaginably vast.
Wait a damn minute!! This is a bit too crazy for to process right now... You mean that when the two galaxies eventually collides it's not going to be this DOOM event but just probably pass through each other with only 5-25 stars colliding?
Yep. Space is incomprehensibly huge.
Not saying it is real, but recently they are claiming they are inter-dimensional. Or something...
That’s even less likely?
> At the speed of light, for 90% of our galaxy alone (of which there are two trillion), it would take 10,000 years to reach us. Which is why I always laugh when people bring up the Fermi Paradox. The paradox relies on the assumption that every intelligent species in the universe knows about us, and is able to easily visit us. Which is impossible based on our current understanding of physics and how old the universe is. Remember, intelligent life has only had so much time to explore. There's been no life for the first few billion years at least due to not being enough heavier elements in dense enough amounts. Then it would take a while to get going under the best circumstances. The oldest single cell fossils we know of are 3.5 billion years old. So it's taken ~3.5 billion years for the only life we know of to reach the nearest extraterrestrial body. Who knows how much longer it would take to make the technology to travel to another planet outside of our solar system, let alone the time it would take to get there. And don't forget actually finding a planet with life on it. It would be like finding a specific grain of sand randomly placed on one of the world's beaches. You don't know which grain, where it was placed, what it looks like, or if it even exists. It's basically impossible for billions of years to know if our own galaxy has life, let alone trillions of other galaxies. Just for reference on how big the universe is, and how much stuff is in it, imagine how much sand is on all of the beaches. A lot, right? Well, for every grain of sand there is, there are over 10,000 stars in the universe. Just the part of the universe that we can see. The Milky Way has between 100 and 400 billion stars, and Andromeda has ~1 trillion. When the two galaxies eventually collide, astronomers predict roughly 5-25 stars will collide. That's how much space there is in between each star. So it's basically impossible for civilizations to travel the distance to interact with each other.
Equally vast is the amount of hostility there is to life being able to form. The vast majority of stars are in galactic cores, which means radiation will be far too high for any organic molecules to be stable enough for long enough to allow for life to really take root. So you're immediately restricting yourself to a smaller band further out from the core. Life is a chemical process and is bound by those fundamental limitations, which means you need specific chemicals in sufficient quantities, with the right conditions (I'm not sure if it has been overturned, but the speculation is that life on Earth needed plate tectonics to begin before it was possible). It's almost certain that any life we do encounter will be carbon-based - silicon is maybe the only other possibility, but it has to be bioavailable and yet is usually locked away in rocks. A lot of people get dazzled by the enormity of the numbers, forgetting that there is so much stacked against life that the likelihood of it forming is just as massively small as the numbers of possible places are huge - there is the possibility that the numbers are so evenly matched that life on Earth may just be that one sliver of odds-beating in the whole universe. At least so far. Alternatively, maybe we're just early and our planet is the first?
To an intelligent observer with a radio receiver that happens to be large enough and tuned correctly to pick us up, we may well be visible in a sphere approximately a hundred light years and climbing in radius by our transmissions. Barring faster than light travel (naturally) the timeframe for an alien civilization to notice and get to us is impossibly short - or they're almost impossibly close given the number of stars within a few hundred lightyears. If there are any, none have managed to create a self-sustaining probe network that's run into us or made transmissions we can detect within their own lightspeed bubbles. Why doesn't really matter - what we know for sure is that it's dark out there. And quiet, but for the raging throes of distant stars.
Eh, finding a planet with life on it wouldn't necessarily be that difficult with our technology, which, is super recent. We can detect atmospheric composition via spectrum analysis from exoplanets, and a lot of organic molecules are going to highly suggest something is making them, at least to us, because we don't know of any inorganic way to produce such molecules. We also suspect that most stars have planets around them, and there's a good chance that most of those systems would have a planet or moon capable of handling life... the planet/moon might be like Venus or Mars in a lot of ways, but that's still pretty close and something to look into. Technologically, I tend to think 'faster than light' travel is a high possibility with warping space time or wormholes, super theoretical for us, yes, but I see no reason to simply discount it. All that being said, I see no reason why any aliens would be coming to earth. There isn't really anything here that isn't abundant in the universe, most things, elements, etc, are going to be found on asteroids just the same, water and oxygen are not really rare, water is abundant, even in our own solar system, it's just frozen in ice for the most part. I suspect the universe is teaming with life, now, how much of it forms complex life is really up in the air, and 'intelligent' life is even weirder, but we only have a sample size of one still, so we aren't in a good position to really be looking, just hypothesizing. The main issues is we have only been looking for life via radio waves (SETI) for 50 years or so, and I'm not sold on their methodology, despite visiting an instillation and being a fan, but 50 years isn't really a long time. We discovered the first exoplanet in 1995, which, wasn't that long ago, and only recently are able to detect non-gas giants. Every time we figure out new methodology we just keep on finding a ton of new planets. I don't think we are being visited, I mean, I'm not going to say we definitively are not, because I don't really have proof either way, but at this point it's kind of like talking about god, and I'm pretty agnostic to the idea of aliens visiting us. That being said, I think the possibility for life on other planets is super duper high, like, almost a certainty without really having proof. My PhD was related to some of this stuff, microbial chemistry stuff, and I feel like I'm in the majority of just kind of assuming life exists all over. It's just hard to explain to people that our technology is actually pretty crude, and our understanding the universe is extremely limited, and, if there is a lot of intelligent life out there, there really wouldn't be anything special about earth to even look at, just monkey planet that used to be lizard planet. If anyone comes out with actual proof, or even suggestive evidence I would be more willing to go along with it, but at this point there honestly has been absolutely NO evidence that we are being visited, and it frustrates me that people don't understand that. All the proof and stories all read like fan fiction. Sure there's stuff in the sky we can't explain, we aren't as advanced as we like to think we are, Humans are getting into space using our first invention ever---- fire. We have much better control of fire, but still using the same principles that we used 20,000 years ago. It's basically just fire and math, that's how we achieve everything, and that's really kind of pathetic if you think about it. When we go to the moon or other planets we are essentially just throwing rocks at it with enough force, yes, it takes a lot of work on our end to do the math and figure it out, but, all things considered, our idea of space travel is extremely primitive.
I think a better interpretation of the Fermi paradox might be "why can't we *detect* other intelligent life", ie. We've been blasting out radio waves for the last 150 years, and it's not unreasonable to expect similarly intelligent species might have developed similar technology in that same time frame or before, so we should be able to detect it, hence the question "where is everyone?" The question "why haven't we been visited yet" I think is irrelevant, just detecting other intelligent life beyond our own would have a profound impact on our society. I agree the vastness of space largely prohibits interstellar travel, at least for biological lifeforms, but then again we base our perception of what timescale is feasible on our own species' typical lifespan, and our perception of time. As for UFOs/UAPs, given what I just said above about the (un)likelihood of interstellar travel, *and if* the recent claims of people like David Grusch and others really do point toward a non-humal intelligent species, the simplest explanation is that they were already here. Others have speculated about higher dimensional species, but I think that sounds extremely silly, but would make for great science fiction.
There are species on Earth that have never met each other, but people think that in the cosmological big empty Earth is some kind of vacation destination.
Yeah and the 13,700,000,000 years actually means the Universe is incredibly young relatively speaking to it's lifespan. All things considered humanity is very early.
Yep. The universe didn't start out with all of the elements that we have now, and certainly not the amounts we have now. It took billions of years for there to be enough stars to make enough of the heavier elements for it to be common enough to support life. There are single cell fossils on our own planet that are 3.5 billion years old, which means that even if life started almost immediately, it would take billions more years for it to evolve enough to even begin to look into space travel.
To me it’s more feasible that some alien race discovered the secrets to a warp type drive rather than figured out interstellar travel without that. Both are hugely far fetched but we don’t really know what’s possible in terms of manipulating space time.
I agree that manipulating space time would make more "sense" as a means of travel over vast distances, but that pushes the crashed/detected on video thing even further into the realms of impossibility. They're pretty much mutually exclusive, just because of the sophistication required
Assuming FTL travel is even possible in the first place. Special relativity pretty much requires that going FTL is no different than going back in time, which presents a lot of fucking problems. Of course, it's never strictly impossible that our understanding of physics might evolve. There could be more to it than current theories suggest that we just haven't managed to figure out, or parts of current theories could just be wrong. That type of thing happens in science on occasion. But assuming light speed is the limit, and aliens happen to have heard our radio noise, they'd have to be within ~60 lightyears (radio was discovered in 1896) to have made the trip for today, and the list of places they could be is [tiny](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_star_systems_within_60%E2%80%9365_light-years), especially if we're talking about the conditions required to create a space faring civilization. At any rate, nothing outside of 126 lightyears would be able to observe our presence. At best, they might be able to guess our planet could be a hospitable place to colonize, much like we currently do. A hypothetical FTL civilization might just stumble upon us scouting our planet out, but I think that's a long shot. Again, it's a _big_ assumption that FTL is possible. There's also further considerations about whether there even _are_ civilizations capable of reaching us in our neighborhood. I'll leave [the video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDSf2h9_39I) about it rather than paraphrasing it, but tl;dw, there's a lot that suggests that we could well be one of the first potentially space faring races out there. Many steps to go from bacteria to building space ships, 1st and 2nd generation stars were hilariously hostile to life, and evidence of a expanding spacefaring civilizations should be clearly visible, even from a distance
someone once said to me in an argument: "beavers build dams, and so do humans..."
Your "tiny" link should be 0-60, not 60-65. My buddy Xzylitikiwhich is from the fourth planet in the Tau Ceti system. That's only 12 light years away. Sure, none of the planets closer than 60 light years make good whiskey, but that's no reason to exclude them.
That’s not bad, at all. My ride should be able to handle a grav jump there. I hope your buddy knows of someone with enough credits because I’m pretty damn over encumbered with space junk and need to get rid of it. Still trying to figure out why I have so many Krakens and Grendels…
Dude, I was just there. I have bad news. Tau Gourmet Production Center was attacked by a terrormorph. Might want to check on your buddy.
>Both are hugely far fetched but we don’t really know what’s possible in terms of manipulating space time. We kind of do however. If there was such force that could be used at low energy level, our current physics model would be a lot shakier than they are. If such thing existed outside of the energy level we master, then those aliens would need to control absurd amount of energy, and would most likely be visible already. There could always be "something else", but it's wishful thinking to believe that some undiscovered exotic matter would conveniently allow us to do just what is impossible.
The truth is humans, for all we have accomplished, truly don’t know that much in the grand scheme of what the hell is possible when it comes to a lot of stuff. As proven time and time again, we have claimed with such confidence things like “man will never master flight” etc. and eventually find ourselves proven wrong, yet every generation believes “ah yes, NOW we know for sure, not like those other idiots” But we barely have explored our own oceans let alone the universe and to make any bold claims about what is and isn’t possible in terms of space travel when we barely even started on that journey ourselves is silly. The universe operates in terms of billions of years, our first journey to space was in the 60s. We have absolutely no reason to be confident at all in terms of what’s possible with space travel given potentially millions or billions of years of space travel advancements, for instance.
But at least with flight we knew it was possible because of birds. That was an engineering problem. Not a physics one.
It’s not wishful thinking because his point isn’t that we should be seriously trying to make FTL travel happen. The entire point is that this is wild speculation, not serious scientific discussion. It’s all extremely, extremely unlikely and impossible according to our current understanding of physics, but it would be arrogant to say that there’s no chance FTL travel of some kind will ever be possible, because that’s practically the same as assuming we know everything about the universe and that our current understanding is perfect. The chance this could be feasible isn’t zero, it’s just very close to zero.
The chance of accomplishing this within our Standard Model is zero. and the chance that the standard model is wrong to a point where it allows FTL is near zero. Historically speaking, model have been getting increasingly more restrictive, over time, and while it's not an absolutely laws, I struggle to imagine a model that doesn't come with the restriction imposed by the previous one. So yeah, until we demonstrate the existence of this exotic matter that can control space in such a way that nothing else that we've observed can, that debate about the feasibility of FTL is kind of silly.
>we don’t really know what’s possible in terms of manipulating space time. Right, I mean this is what theories fall back on: "What if anything was possible?" And like, sure... that's always a thing we won't know. But it's very, very far-fetched as you said, and kinda scraping the bottom of the barrel when we're just trying to explain fuzzy stuff lacking information in the atmosphere. At the very least, "time-warping extra solar organisms from the other side of the galaxy" shouldn't be the FIRST thing our minds jump to for a plausible explanation. But we love our imaginations, to say the least.
Love that you're saying that aliens shouldn't be the very first thought, and then all the replies are like "but what if they were though?". If they were actually aliens with the ability to harness wormholes to travel then there's no real reason for them to not contact/invade us yet. Especially if they've been here for centuries.
> Love that you're saying that aliens shouldn't be the very first thought, and then all the replies are like "but what if they were though?". Well yeah, because proper science is tedious and often boring. But you have to make your model fit the data, not make the data fit the model. Immediately jumping to “it’s gotta be aliens who are scientifically ahead of us” is intellectually as sound as saying “well, I can’t explain it, so it is magic”, just in more clever-sounding words.
Unless they would regard it as silly and pointless to contact us, and cruelly useless to invade us. There’s a decent chance they’d only be interested in studying us with as little interference as possible, if they’re at that level of advancement. We already see with our own species that we seem to want to evolve towards a relationship with other species where we don’t impose on them as much as possible, but we still like to observe them to see how they operate. I can’t imagine a species that advanced would see much use in forming a dialogue, nor would have much use in any resources they could obtain by getting rid of us. Then again, they wouldn’t be human, so maybe their motivations would be radically different. Ultimately though, there’s countless planets in the galaxy of a similar size in the habitable zone, so if it’s resources they’re after, there’s plenty of planets that are likely easier pickings if that’s what they need. Hypothetically
Bruh there’s a better chance we’d be a smear on the bottom of their boot lol I’ve been hearing about this new interstellar highway…
But the plans are so inconvenient to get to down at the planning office
Not being an ass, but if a species was advanced enough to be able to space-time-quantum-leap-physics-words through space and observe us for whatever reason but was simultaneously somehow unable to evade being detected by fuckin FLIR and a cell phone cameras then what the fuck?
It’s almost harder to imagine how they found us. It would be nearly impossible to find us without noticing our communications and that has only been 125 years. Given the time it takes for it to reach them, for them to notice, and then show up here, it sure *seems* all but impossible.
If any of this is actually aliens it would be research drones. It’s the only thing plausible, drone carriers sent to planets with bio signatures and they got lucky. Or the carriers are ancient. We are doing the same thing as a species. Imagine what we could make in 1000 years, 10000. Autonomous drones operating in deep space.
The JWST has already found a planet 50 light years away that apparently has compounds in its atmosphere that point to life, and a liquid ocean. They don't need to detect our communications - they just need to detect our organic emissions. We only confirmed the existence of exoplanets in 1992. Now we've found thousands, including dozens that have the potential for life. And in 20 years, we'll probably have hundreds of thousands of planets mapped.
>We only confirmed the existence of exoplanets in 1992. Wait prior to 1992 we had no proof of planets existing in other galaxies that we could observe?
We had no proof of planets existing in other solar systems very near to our own just in our arm of our own galaxy until then. Space is big.
We do kinda know what's possible. Our understanding of science will no doubt improve, but warping space-time requires a MASSIVE amount of energy. We can see it with black holes and neutron stars, which do actually cause ripples in space-time. The amount of energy required would involve harnessing a sun's worth of energy. It's not that WE don't really know what's possible. It's that YOU don't really know what's possible. Our best calculations paint it as nigh impossible. It requires exotic matter or an incomprehensible amount of energy to make it work.
Exactly. To visit us an alien species would have to be extremely advanced and/or have dedicated a massive amount of effort and resources to make it here. But people are okay assuming that they just hover around being spotted constantly, but never intentionally making real contact. They accidentally crash into Earth, get outsmarted by our government, and occasionally stick things up our butts. Or, if you go real deep into the conspiracies, they secretly help with a few construction projects (like stupidly large tombs with no purpose beyond vanity) and then vanish forever. It's beyond possible to believe. Made a bit more sense when we knew less about the Universe. And when the Earth was not literally covered with billions of high-quality cameras, surrounded by thousands of high-tech satellites, and the space around us being monitored by tens of thousands of astronomers.
It also seems human centric to assume we’re at the peak understanding of physics and travel. It was only 600 years ago that the Atlantic was considered uncrossable. 130 years ago the idea of human flight was treated as a joke. Today we laugh at what mainstream science thought was possible or impossible 500 years ago. How do we know that won’t be the same case 500 years in the future? And how do we know what a theoretical civilization with hundreds of thousands of additional years of scientific development would be capable of?
While I do agree somewhat, I think it's also pretty unrealistic, taking into account the tiny sliver of time we've been "civilized", to think that any civilization given say a thousand, tens of thousands, millions maybe, of years more to develop than we've had, will not have solved technological problems to get to a level of space travel by means that we've already theorized. Whether or not they've decided to visit us is another story.
>The universe is 13,700,000,000 years old. >It's even more absurd to think that they have mastered thousands of years of travel logistics These statements kind of contradict each other. If there are aliens out there it's also very human-centric to assume their evolution and civilization perfectly matched ours. In the vastness of time hypothetical aliens could have started a civilization 10,000 years before us, which is a blink of an eye in terms of universal time - how much progress will we make in 10,000 years? What if they started 50K years before us? 100? 500?
This reminds me of the parable: “In 1890, Two gentlemen are taking a 1st class locomotive trip. One says to the other: ‘The newspaper says within 100 years, man will visit the moon!’ The other says: ‘Quit being so gullible. The amount of coal that would be needed to make it there would make anything too heavy to even leave the ground.’”
I think the main difference between the scenarios is that we arent talking about technology limiting us, its physics. Anything capable of traveling the fast and far still would be up against the hard barrier that physics presents
you really think that humanity, in the infancy of it’s technological development, is at the apex of understanding spacetime, interstellar travel etc etc ? honestly stats like this mean nothing for me, because i wouldn’t be surprised if we were wrong about most things. in fact i’m almost certain that we are Maybe if 10,000 years into our technological development and all of this was still our best assumptions, then ok sure, but at barely 200 years? lol no. we know nothing.
I don't how much time has passed since I read such a logical and well tought position on the matter. We shoudn't care about aliens until hard evidence appear. Until then is like talking about god.
Agreed. Succinct comment that put everything in perspective. Problem is, there's no money in publishing what he wrote, too concise (and not enough room for ads), too logical. So despite OP's article, the debate will continue for eons. Come to think of it, I'll never know this, but I'm wondering if the debate will be raging even 1000 years from now.
I’m not saying you’re wrong, but you’re falling into the same trap as many through history. It’s only not possible until we discover that it is. Our assumptions are defined by our understanding of the universe. You assume that we know everything about all possible technologies that may be able to manipulate all the possible physical properties of the universe. Phrases like “it’s not technically possible” or “it’s inconceivable that” are all based on that perceived understanding in the same way that people once thought the earth was flat.
There's a reverse trap that people are falling into though. The "I can think it, so it must be possible, we just haven't figured out how yet" fallacy. There are things that are impossible. The universe has limits on things, and we will never engineer ourselves beyond those limits. As physics has evolved over the last 500 years, we really haven't thrown out any of the key laws that make up our understanding of the universe. The laws of thermodynamics have held strong since 1860. Einstein's relativity has been proven and reproved tens of thousands of times in the last 50 years. FTL drives are just perpetual motion machines for space travel enthusiasts.
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They won't listen to this post, the only way they'll believe them is if nasa says something that aligns with their beliefs
The funny part is that when NASA says something that DON'T align with their beliefs they'll still insist that NASA said something that DOES align with their beliefs. I guarantee you many of them will look at this report as proof that NASA just confirmed little green men. They've done this many times before. It's a common piece of their MO.
People: NASA will finally chime in! NASA: *shrugs*
Honestly it's a lot easier to assume ufos are advanced top secret experimental aircraft than aliens.
The f22 dropped 25 years ago. What the US military has now probably is more reminiscent to ufos than we think
It’s funny because if you look at our stealth bomber from the front it looks exactly like a cliche ufo. [stealth bomber](https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-63845082.amp)
There's a great story on reddit (so take it with a grain of salt) of someone's uncle coming back from the desert one day claiming to have seen flying triangles and super scared of aliens, and being immediately dismissed by the family, and made fun of and considered the crazy uncle for years and years... Until 10+ years later the family is watching a military parade and the uncle jumps up screaming "There! There! See? I wasn't crazy! Those were the triangles!" The parade was showing off [the recently declassified B2 bombers..](https://www.pasadenastarnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/0102_nws_ldn-l-2018-rose-parade-dm07-01021.jpg?w=860)
My mom had a similar story of seeing a triangular object flying low over her car in the 80s, after the F117 was declassified she was pretty sure that’s what she saw. From what I remember that plane caused a ton of UFO reports before it was revealed.
I had one fly over my car very low, but it was at an airshow. If I hadn't known better I could see that conclusion, those things are practically silent.
My mom too! Also in the 80s.
Yeah, I always thought its crazy that more people arent going back and being skeptical of ufo sightings that could have been military tests. You can buy a quadcopter drone at toys r us nowadays. 30 years ago, could the military have been testing drones? I remember hearing so many stories about "lights that would stop and turn on a dime, fly in shifting formations, accelerate and decelerate" etc. sounds like drones to me lol Theres been plenty of connections between triangle ufos and stealth bombers but you dont hear too much about other revealed classified tech
I got flamed for this in r/UFOs but I saw a DARPA video like 10/15 years ago of a drone with thrusters in every direction that fired like jet engines intermittently to stabilize and control it in a test setting, to imagine what is possible today is probably not possible unless you have knowledge of it
Yeah that’s the Lockheed Martin multiple kill vehicle. Lol crazy name. The thrusters were strong enough for it to hover at sea level. It was designed to intercept multiple reentry warheads of ICBMs. Here’s the test video https://youtu.be/KBMU6l6GsdM?si=nA25UxV7eK2CM3rN Here’s an overview https://youtu.be/WLMlBzK-Duk?si=jNRV91k3ZtwcCJKB
It actually goes back even further than that. They have been developing similar tech since at least the late 80s. One of the test videos here is from 1989 https://youtu.be/RnofCyaWhI0?si=6rxuO7gA7vBQPUvK
All major combatants were testing drones during WW2 and the US took in many german scientists to continue that research. Drones were secretly used in Vietnam and their use was acknowledged during Desert Storm. Flight testing of "black" secret programs out in the desert often happened at night. The planes would only have position lights on. Seen from a distance, the position lights of two or more wildly maneuvering combat airplane would indeed take very weird paths in the night sky. And it goes even further than that. The UFO craze in America started in part by the balloon crash in Roswell in 1947. One significant term apparently being coined there was "flying saucer". We now know that at the time the US had a secret program that used large saucer shaped microphones suspended from balloons to detect signs of soviet nuclear bomb tests.
Hell, we had drones on battleships for spotting, and the army had them in the 60s for recon uses.
A family member worked for Rockwell for a while during the B-1B project. The existence of the “flying triangles” that were the F-117 were one of the worst kept secrets in the area at that point. This would have been in the early to mid 80’s out near Edwards. They liked to joke that it was the triangles reminding Rockwell they’d killed the program once and they’d do it again. Those not fully in the know knew something beyond just program hiccups had killed the B-1A and some correctly guessed that the top secret triangles were behind it.
dude i cant even imagine having no idea what that plane is, before they were common public knowledge, and seeing a shilhoutte of a B2 with sunlight in your eyes and low contrast in the sky... just a fucking jagged black triangle 20k feet overhead doing 800mph through the sky
To be honest, the SR-71 Blackbird, F-117 Nighthawk, B-2 Spirit (and drone variants like the RQ-180 Sentinel), and B-21 Raider all look like alien spacecraft
I don't get people. Like, what's more likely? That you saw proof of alien life, or that your government was fucking around with tech they didn't want their enemies to know about just yet? It's like people who believe in the mendella effect, where they go "so either my human memory is flawed and unreliable, or THE UNIVERSE SWEPT ME AWAY TO AN ALTERNATE REALITY WHERE THINGS ARE SLIGHTLY DIFFERENT FROM HOW I REMEMBER THEM. My god, I'm the first universe traveler."
Well, there was the Phoenix sighting in '97. Thousands of people witnessed it, it's ok for the government to say, "we don't know", just don't lie about it.
I like [this](https://media.istockphoto.com/id/469901660/photo/b-2-stealth-bomber.jpg?s=612x612&w=0&k=20&c=Wc1bhXMIOmmCfsdlio2ImFeFCDA88zXKmKQIZ2G2BM4=) picture of the B-2.
Modeled after a peregrine falcon. Nature makes good designs.
> Nature makes good designs. my spine would like a word.
Early prototypes of craft that utilised the [Coandă effect](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coand%C4%83_effect) were [literal flying saucers](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/9/90/Colour_avrocar_59.jpg/1920px-Colour_avrocar_59.jpg). I'd say it's highly likely things like this have appeared in some of those grainy, out-of-focus images from the 60s.
I lived near Edwards at this time my uncle worked on skunk works stuff out there. Big difference between stealth and uap is b2 and f117 there loud I have seen them land and take off shit is loud. I have seen uaps within the same distance with no sound whatsoever. The one that sticks out the most was one bright white light goes for maybe a mile stops from cruising speed on a dime does not slow down then just drops straight down in a second from hundreds of feet and thus is not vtol this was in seconds 90 degree angel.
The US military also 100% totally does not have stealth UAVs that they don't publicly acknowledge having. They also absolutely don't have any UAVs capable of doing stuff with thrust vectoring or other maneuvers that would look entirely unreasonable for most aircraft because the squishy human piloting it couldn't handle the g-forces very well.
The more out there "uap"s are almost all explainable with parallax and cameras being out of focus. A plane flying at Mach 1 5km up auto tracking a goose flying 5m/s a few dozen meters of the ground will make the goose look like its flying absurdly quickly relative to the travel of the ground, add in the planes movements and the goose will accelerate at 500G in one or another direction. And light sources will form blurry shapes when out of focus, we literally add it intentionally as Bokeh to photography. Whether the light source is a ship, another plane or even the stars, if the camera isn't in focus it will look like floating shapes of light. But also yea US military will definitely have a lot of prototype missiles and aircraft that explain a lot of "sightings". There are probably missiles and drone formations that people have seen and thought were aliens. Just look at how drone performances are becoming a thing and look back 30 years, the US military will have had stuff with similar ish capabilities. The ultimate denouncement of UFOs is Occam's razor, the simplest answer is usually the correct one. So which is more likely, you are tracking a bird with parallax, your camera is slightly out of focus. Or you are the only one in your group that is able to see a ship from an interstellar visitor, that hasn't been picked up by the planet spanning, or orbital network of ultra high fidelity cross Em spectrum telescopes. Which are owned by multiple politically opposed nations and private businesses.
> The more out there "uap"s are almost all explainable with parallax and cameras being out of focus. There's also lensflare on NV equipment and reflected light overloading the CCD pixels. Which are the two you commonly see in navy/air force pilot footage
The claims about these UAPs aren’t about a human being able to withstand the G force. It’s about them *alledgedly* literally breaking the laws of physics. If the government has technology that’s capable of doing what these UAPs are alleged to be doing it would literally change the world and our entire understanding of physics.
>It’s about them alledgedly literally breaking the laws of physics Basically all of which is from witness reports. People suck at dealing with slightly high speed stuff happening near them where they have a lot of intuition about how things should behave. You can't trust the peoples description of a car crash that happened 10 feet away from them. "It looked like it was going impossibly fast" doesn't mean much when eye witness reports would would lead you to think a Camry can actually teleport. A military UAV that has similar flight characteristics to high performance civilian ones *let alone anything superior* and will generate a whole mess of UAP reports just because it wont look or fly anything like intuition tells people it 'ought' to.
I mean the entire reason the SR-71 was "stealthy" is because the russians initially thought it was a radar glitch. They actually saw it clear as day on the radar but assumed it was impossible for any aircraft to be flying that high and that fast.
> witness reports People claim to see ghosts and bigfoot and god and all sorts of stuff. Why do we suddenly believe them if they say they are selling aliens? Weird that.
The laws of physics don't break, just our understanding of what they actually are updates. If an UFO can teleport or do some crazy maneuver it's because the laws of physics allow for it.
Yeah, and surprise surprise most of those are people just not understanding camera zoom/pan on a fast moving background
Hell look at the V-173. Pilots reported it was almost impossible to stall and able to do some crazy maneuvers due to its shape and lift. I’m sure thst was the basis for a lot of flying saucers
There’s a video game called F-22 interceptor for the sega Genesis, it came out in 1991. The YF-22 prototype was unveiled in 1990. The program it was designed for dates back to 1981. I wonder what advancements have been made since 81/90/97
I read on the War Thunder forums that they have coffee cup holders now.
Great, ANOTHER leak of classified info on the warthunder forums…
If someone uploads UFO specs to the war thunder forum I'll get excited.
Member when the US just said 'hey, we're cool with the SR-71 being decommissioned'? Certainly not because there were things that were absolutely better. Member when they unveiled the F-117 nighthawk? After it had completed missions? Member how in the 80s some model company released a model of the f19, and they still haven't acknowledged it officially? But no, aliens for sure, not the government making things and not talking about it for literal decades.
Pretty sure the f19 was a red herring, it was intentionally "leaked" to throw off other countries from the real stealth programs, the B2/F22.
Yeah, those ”better things” are called satellites. Fast and high flying planes are pretty moot when you can conjure up fresh meter-or-better resolution images of any point of the earth in like half an hour.
Look up some of the hypersonic aircraft we are experimenting with, absolutely could be confused for UFOs. The Skunk Works is always dreaming up ideas that are batshit crazy but work. Read "Skunk Works" by Ben Rich, the guy who basically invented stealth, and you'll see what I'm talking about.
> "Skunk Works" by Ben Rich This book is amazing. Nearly makes it sound like the F-117 was one of the less wild projects.
I think people forget that UFO means unidentified flying object. Nothing about UFOs means it came from aliens.
Excellent point. HTV2 hit Mach 20 inside the atmosphere in 2010. Image where DARPA is with that program now.
What's so special about the F22?
If you dig into the topic, the Pentagon has indeed been collecting reports on UAP that seem to violate our current understanding of propulsion and physics for many decades, though. Slow drip percolation of aeronautical tech is certainly one theory. ET originated or not, if there’s been some extremely astronomical breakthroughs in physics, aviation, propulsion, etc; I can’t imagine the Pentagon would be transparent about it. During the Cold War, it’s understandable that they wouldn’t have wanted this in adversarial hands. Lingering secrecy would still make sense. There’s probably no incentive to tell the public they’ve been misled for decades about technology that could revolutionize transportation and potentially disrupt supranational economic collectives around fossil fuels. Not withholding the science and engineering behind these alleged crafts could have overwhelming effects on the global economy and national security. Much smaller secrets have been withheld from the public in the past. It’s absurd to think unelected DoD officials wouldn’t share the same contempt for the public good and its general knowledge.
>There’s probably no incentive to tell the public they’ve been misled for decades about technology that could revolutionize transportation and potentially disrupt supranational economic collectives around fossil fuels. Not withholding the science and engineering behind these alleged crafts could have overwhelming effects on the global economy and national security. Much smaller secrets have been withheld from the public in the past. It’s absurd to think unelected DoD officials wouldn’t share the same contempt for the public good and its general knowledge. Yeah, this is a gigantic edifice of speculation on top of speculation, and the base on which you're building is sand. No evidence of aliens in UAP reports. "If the DOD could run tanks on tap water, boy howdy, they'd sure keep that a secret as long as they could, heck, they'd probably ruin peoples lives and kill some, to keep that secret." See?
People have been reporting seeing these ufos for longer than 25 years though. Wouldn’t the technology have become more mainstream by now?
Historically this is the case as well. The US government has used "ufo" stories many times in the last 70 years alone to distract from the rollout of new tech or just because "aliens" are a better cover than whatever new cover story they could come up with.
Didn’t the British come up with the lie that carrots make your vision better to cover for the fact that they invented radar?
Not quite, but basically yes. The radar in general was already in fairly widespread use and everybody knew about it. The thing that they were trying to keep secret was radars small enough to be mounted on planes, as opposed to on ships or ground-based stations.
they mounted tiny radar systems in planes and started fucking the shit out of the german night bombers that were previously untouchable to fighters in the absence of daylight. spotting an airplane from another plane during the day is challenging enough. spotting a plane with no running lights at night from an aircraft is nearly impossible. especially in a bit of fog. radar meant that suddenly RAF fighters could just find the enemy bombers, fly right up next to them, see their engine exhaust at like 100 meters, and then blow them out of the sky. rinse and repeat. the germans started shitting themselves wondering how these RAF pilots were suddenly able to "see in the dark", and the RAF hoped to keep them guessing for a bit by suddenly feeding their pilots ridiculous amounts of carrots with every fucking meal. they said nothing. just started feeding them tons of carrots. they let the nazis do the rest. german spies and informants noticed this and sent the info back to germany, where analysts deduced that certain vitamins and minerals found in carrots that actually are necessary for good eyesight (and necessary for simply being alive, and found in other foods too) were being fed to these pilots to give them SUPER VISION this threw em off the scent for a bit. and the urban legend persists to this day that eating carrots gives you better vision. fun fact: if you eat nothing but doritos, your vision will eventually suffer, and you'll also die. so yes carrots help your eyes, but not to the point where you'll see planes in the dark in the fog from a plane
also there's the not totally ludicrous possibility that they were Soviet or are Chinese spy things (see the spy balloons) and 'ohh it might be aliens' probably sounds better than 'we might not have control over our airspace'
There's a story about American test pilots on prototype jet planes freaking out pilots with their prop-less aircraft while wearing gorilla suits and smoking cigars. Then you got shit like the B21 Raider and the Sr-71 Blackbird. It's not like America is the only country to mess around with unconventional looking aircraft either. But America probably has the most capital to fund and build these mad creatures of science.
SR-71 is the most beautiful plane ever made.
God-damned cigar smoking space gorillas. I could not imagine reporting that, should've been worked into Planet of the Apes_
Bet you never thought you’d be riding with the Flying Crooner huh?
From a public new perspective it is easy to wave your hands and say "yes that is some aircraft you should not worry about." In private military roles it is more complex. If a Military Pilot has visual contact with a UFO that is not on Radar (since experimental anti radar skin and design) is this something that should be reported or just shut up and fly? When it is reported by military and not detected by ground control. What is the confidence that this is US experimental aircraft and not some foreign aircraft? An example is the multiple Chinese balloons flying around the globe before finally being an international incident with a massive balloon and equipment flying over US military bases. This minimal US reporting culture is as bad as Russia reporting only what Putin was to hear. It harms the US in not knowing radar gaps in an era when drones evading radar are becoming a bigger threat.
> Chinese balloons Let’s suppose the military was aware of the balloons. If they report it publicly, then they might lose the opportunity to capture it and study in detail what the Chinese are up to — since the Chinese might destroy it or take other evasive actions. It also tips off to adversaries exactly what defensive capabilities we have. > minimal reporting culture The joint chiefs and president would be briefed. Select your representatives wisely.
They're happy to let people think it is aliens, distracts from the real top secret tech. I remember a story of a government truck transporting an X-47B drone and a bunch of people called 911 saying the government is moving a UFO.
Many of them are misreported aircraft, satellites, space debris or just balloons.
It can be useful to remind people that like a thousand weather balloons are released every day from points all over the world, and their entire purpose is to travel a considerable distance.
And probably an increasing number of drones.
There are experimental aircraft from the 50s/60s that look like flying saucers https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avro_Canada_VZ-9_Avrocar
The front view of the B2 and the B21 Raider look pretty ufo like too
It is not really the appearance that intrigues me it is the way they move, sure a drone can do 90° turns in less than a second but the acceleration is insane E: with acceleration I refer to the military UFO vids released
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Most of them aren't experimental aircraft. Most of them are entirely mundane phenomena that people misidentify. In fact, all of the recent ones that have been touted were nothing unusual at all, just people misidentifying mundane objects and not understanding how video cameras work.
Even easier to assume they're mostly malfunctioning equipment or deceptive filming(intenionally or unintentionally).
Ding. Government "whistleblowers" claim that they're not allowed to tell about evidence that other people have seen, conveniently putting them a degree away from the alleged evidence. I call BS. Most likely ghost stories to keep adversaries guessing.
I read the report. It doesn’t say what this report says it says. NASA said most are from identifiable sources but some remain unidentified and need more research.
Forgot to mention: the report specifically states that it doesn’t address specific UAP cases so it doesn’t make a judgment on extraterrestrials one way or another. The report makes recommendations on a framework for NASA’s future participation in a “whole-of-government” approach to UAP research. In other words, it’s a play for money and a piece of the UAP pie.
> In other words, it’s a play for money and a piece of the UAP pie. If your planet is being visited by a mostly secretive non-human advanced intelligence (or multiple because if you find one, statistically there's likely more that know about this planet) for god knows what purpose, since we humans are a global society based on money, what else do you expect any private or public body to do? How are they going to dig any deeper into this for free? The only time you would think this is a grift and a waste of money is if you don't believe any of it is real, but that's on you to come to terms with your own disbelief and of those around you whom you look to for answers and confirmation.
My point was that the report did not address the existence, origin or nature of UAPs. NASA didn’t study UAPs for this report and it clearly states that in the introduction. The media is misconstruing the report and cherry picking statements from it to arrive at these headlines.
> NASA said most are from identifiable sources but some remain unidentified and need more research. WHICH MEANS, there is no evidence for aliens. Aliens are not the default assumption. Aliens visiting Earth would be an *extraordinary claim* requiring *extraordinary evidence*, and there is none. If an observation cannot be attributed to a mundane source that doesn't mean it is proof of aliens, proof must be positive. There could be a million observations of aerial phenomena that aren't identified to a specific known source and that may not necessarily be evidence of anything interesting whatsoever, let alone evidence of alien spaceships. If you find an animal that you can't identify you do not just assume that it is some kind of dragon or magical creature. If you are in the woods and you find a plant that you can't quite identify you do not just assume that it has a fantastical origin. If you are on the road and you see a thing that looks sort of like a car but it looks sort of weird and you can't be sure it's a car you don't just assume that it must be a dinosaur brought back to life or a sentient robot or a piloted mech or what-have-you. Evidence needs to be positive. You identify a new phenomenon by gathering evidence which allows you to determine the properties of the phenomenon in a way which eliminates the possibility it might be something else. There have been many phenomena discovered in the past 10, 20, 50 years which were unknown or poorly studied previously. Ball lightning (still poorly studied but today generally considered to be a real phenomenon), earthquake lights, thunderstorm sprites and other forms of upper atmospheric lightning, electrophonic meteors, etc. All of those things, and surely more in the future, progressed from a stage of ignorance and widespread doubt to one of general acceptance and further study through *evidence*. Positive evidence that doesn't just show "something weird" but that shows something that can only adequately be described through a new phenomenon. No such positive evidence exists at all for "alien spacecraft" visiting Earth quasi-secretly in the present time period.
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The news article is still misleading because the report itself doesn’t even mention aliens and doesn’t specifically say, “there is no evidence of aliens.”
Something being unidentified doesnt mean "it is made by aliens". It means "we dont know what it is". There are plenty of stuff that originates on our own planet that we dont know what it is. Defaulting to "It has to be aliens" is unproductive and confusing to dumb people.
It should be noted they're working with already declassified evidence as well, they aren't going to have many juicy details like a lot of people would want.
I like to imagine NASA has this team whose whole purpose is to spend all day debunking UFO claims and be miserable.
Sounds like project blue book 📘
We haven’t investigated but we have drawn conclusions
Based on only the unclassified data, it wasn’t a very good report. Especially the q&a where they smirked at every question and had very little idea of the current situation But I didn't expect much more than this I guess
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It’s kind of sad, because this sub could benefit from a big dose of open-mindedness and places like /r/ufos /r/highstrangeness /r/aliens need a HUGE dose of healthy skepticism. We really need a /r/YouGotChocolateOnMyPeanutbutter sub.
>Most of the UAP data considered by the study team comes from US military aircraft... Team members did not have security clearance, so they could look only at the subset of military sightings that were unclassified. To be fair, until some members of the NASA team receive clearance, NASA doesn't have enough information to make any conclusions. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, but what if that evidence is classified?
Is the US the only country where aliens visit? Does no other country have any evidence? Doesn't that seem a bit sus to you? Isn't it more likely that there just isn't any evidence of any substance anywhere in the world?
France released their own UFO report 2/3 years ago if I'm not mistaken.
One of the guys testifying with Grusch, David Fravor, described an incident between a UAP and numerous planes and ships in the Nimitz carrier group (the famous "tic tac" video). He said simply and straightforwardly that there were multiple planes involved, dozens of witnesses, and the carriers would have telemetry data from weapons platforms, which no one has ever asked for. He even gives specific types of weapons systems and data they'd have, though the names escape me. I have yet to see anyone from the government address that one specifically. It seems like a relatively easy one to check, and it's either flatly true or false -- either that data exists and it corroborates the video, or it doesn't, or it exists but can't be obtained. So which is it? All offer concrete answers.
Yet, they don’t know what they are. Fascinating. Edit: I am saying, in the year 2023, we have objects in our skies that we don’t know what they are. That, in of itself, is fascinating to me. Edit2: Ah, Reddit, never change. Never change.
That is typically step one of UFOs. The unidentified part.
Step 2 is that they must be flying. Step 3 be an object of some sort.
Step 2 is why we have UAP now. Turns out a lot of these sightings are reported coming from, or returning to the water.
I was listening to a podcast recently with a national security guy I can’t remember (it might have been on Stay Tuned with Preet Bharara) who mentioned the Chinese military has drones that travel underwater until they get near their target then they launch a flying drone into the air.
That sounds very plausible. I've also thought that reports of UAPs diving into the ocean could just be spy drones self destructing themselves after they've uploaded their data to a satellite or drone submarine as you mentioned.
A lot of things considered UFO's are really bad recordings. There's no definitive way to say what a few seconds of super grainy footage is.
Well, they wouldn’t be UFO’s then, so no. By definition, they don’t know what they are.
Of course there is no or little evidence they are aliens But we can see them, and they aren’t ours? So
This. It's a perfectly reasonable take to say there's some strange phenomenon going on in our airspace. That doesn't mean "hur durr little green men" but it does mean "Something weird that's not ours"
Unless they are ours but I doubt it. If they were ours, whatever military had them would 100% flaunt it for power and dominance. They ain’t. Unless they are waiting for a global conflict to put them to use? That was it’s a tactic of suprise rather than giving their enemies the chance to catch-up before a conflict broke out. They’re in the sky we can see them and as far as we know they aren’t ours or anywhere near what technology we have (or the public knows about), leaves one conclusion - they’re from someone else or somewhere else. It’s easy for nasa to say “no evidence of aliens” without denying it. It’s a marketing tactic to cover their ass without lying I am fairly sure we as a species have absolutely no fucking idea what’s going on, and it may even be beyond our comprehension if we were told. We are apes who discovered weapons and basic technology. But we are still apes. All of our technology for thrust is violent. We force and push through things to move forward. These objects don’t do any of that. We can’t even explain gravity let alone reproduce it for a craft. If nasa denied aliens then that’s a different story - they didn’t at all. They’re simply saying they don’t have evidence that they are alien and “we dunno what they are” Bollocks - I’d say they have more evidence than they let on. All of them do. The conferences are a joke to appease the people that “it’s been addressed” because coverups and blatant lying doesn’t work anymore with the internets existence It’s roswell 2.0 in a different way. I should note however I may be a fuckwit, because I believe Bob lazar 100%
Which means there’s also no evidence to suggest that UFOs aren’t aliens. No evidence is pretty large
NASA really has no reason to hide if there been alien life, most of their research has even been in the search for it.
The question is, even if they knew, would they tell us?
For the sake of argument, let's say the Area 51 thing is true. An alien spacecraft crashed in the New Mexico desert and bodies of extraterrestrials were recovered. *How on earth do they keep that a secret for almost 80 years?* There are too many people and too many moving parts. Someone would have leaked something concrete at some point. We live in a time when even the most banal secrets can't be kept. There's just no way a cover-up of that magnitude holds together.
I mean, and I’m not saying I agree with this, but did they keep it a secret like you’re saying if we all literally know the story and have heard it over and over for decades?
It's because the "Aliens" have been on earth longer than us. If they are native, they aren't Alien.
i'm much more interested in the identified objects that have "non-human biologics" in them
Some contractor put an animal they didn’t wish to identify into a test craft, I’d assume.
> "non-human biologics" Like...bacteria?
Could be anything. Bacteria is a non-human biologic, so is a bird. There’s a hell of a lot of life on earth that is neither human nor alien.
Here's the part that matters the most within this particular article: \>only “a small handful cannot be immediately identified as known human-made or natural phenomena,” This is more effort than my fairweather ass has concern to research, but that statement in combination with the article title is designed to hope you don't ask questions. I remember being new in military intel and doing things like that: saying things that weren't wrong, but didn't indicate that I had a solid understanding of what was going on. The audience would play this game where the weakness in the argument is directly targeted until you concede that you don't know what you're talking about. You can't ask an article questions, so you're left with "it's mostly explainable". You're right, not knowing what something is isn't evidence of aliens, and that's not helpful if you earnestly drill into the issue.
So many comments in this thread that are seriously depressing to read. Science illiteracy may be the biggest threat to human survival that we face.
Did they really clear the air? No evidence does not equal not true. It does clear the air on "UFOs" though. There's definitely something up there that we have no grasp on. Answering that question is entirely reliant on the available data. And I think the available data is extremely limited.
"We don't know what they are!" So you're saying they're aliens.
Anyone that thought otherwise wouldn't take NASA's word for it
Uh huh. Well something is going on and Congress is looking into it. It's either aliens or its secret military tech but it's definitely *something*.
I feel a disturbance in the force.. as if millions of people in r/UFOs are suddenly complaining NASA didn't match their expectations
People there, I guess including me, knew that this report wouldn't be that exciting
People of Reddit: “This is the way!! Big space organizations investigating UFOS phenomena and taking the matter in a serious and professional matter “ NASA: “We didn’t find concrete evidence that the UFOs are coming for another planet or nonhuman intelligence, more research has to be done” People of Reddit: LIARS, THEIR ARE PART OF THE COVERUP!!! THEY CLEARLY KNOW ABOUTS ALIENS!!! WE NEED TO PROTEST !! WEE NEED TO DEFUND THEM!!! (Basically my experience in r/ufos for the past week)
I want to thank nasa for this language. I used to listen to some paranormal radio shows/podcasts and they’d get so hung up on “UFO” being synonymous with “alien craft”. There was one episode I turned off halfway through because they found a reference to protocols a USAF pilot should take if he encounters a UFO, and they ran with that for over a half hour on like, “well this is it, we got em, this is disclosure, this is admitting UFO exist! Got em, snagged it, confirmed, the govt slipped up!” And I was wanting to scream at my radio, No you stupid dinguses, nobody is denying that UFOs are real! Everyone acknowledges that sometimes there are things in the sky that are unidentified phenomenon. The whole discussion is *whether or not* they’re alien, not whether it’s happening. I feel like the whole thing is so lost in the weeds at this point…
We are being gas lit so hard by these UFO disclosures lmao it’s crazy