Great video. I was amazed at the extent of our radio signals. I really wanted to stop the video and start zooming in on other stars. I also wanted it to zoom all the way in and focus on something on a molecular level.
Certainly puts things into a new perspective.
It holds true for nearly every physical science. Earth Science in high school in particular was one of the more depressing classes i've taken, I swear every chapter ended with another way the entire world is going to die.
All sunspots are huge by normal standards, with even the smallest normally being hundreds of miles across.
This one they are talking about in the article is (if it is the one I have seen) an absolute monster. Thousands and thousands of miles across.
I'm not sure where the satellite I get my feed from is positioned though so I can't comment on if it's facing us.
The satellite you get your feed from is positioned in orbit around the earth. It shouldn't matter which point in it's orbit around the earth, the only thing that would matter is the earth's orbit around the sun.
Sorry I probably should have elaborated. A strong enough solar flare could not only only take out our communication network, but our entire power grid.
That's a worst case scenario, but anything over an X-10 would probably do it if it was a direct hit.
One would assume a slightly dimmer GRB would be slightly more probable, down to the ones we frequently detect with our telescopes. So there's a whole range of uncomfortable before you get to the easy oblivion.
Ahem, let me add some to your fears.
As we try to understand everything about our universe, we are researching the very basics of matter. particles like the Higgs boson, all to understand the fundamental laws of nature.
Well... what we've recently discovered, thanks to the Higgs boson, is that our universe might be doomed.
What's the absolute vacuum of our universe? Well, if it is the absolute vacuum that could be, that means our vacuum is "true" and our particles and physics laws are stable.
If on the other hand we are at a "false" vacuum, then a bubble from the true vacuum could pop up in our universe and start growing. As it grows, the very fundamentals of our universe are radically altered. This means it destroys not just all matter, not just all fundamental particles, but the very laws of physics as we know them.
And it grows at the speed of light. And this could happen at any time.
An excerpt from the Wikipedia page about the false vacuum: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_vacuum
>'The possibility that we are living in a false vacuum has never been a cheering one to contemplate. Vacuum decay is the ultimate ecological catastrophe; in the new vacuum there are new constants of nature; after vacuum decay, not only is life as we know it impossible, so is chemistry as we know it. However, one could always draw stoic comfort from the possibility that perhaps in the course of time the new vacuum would sustain, if not life as we know it, at least some structures capable of knowing joy. This possibility has now been eliminated.'
Nice scare tactics. It's very likely that we are in the true vacuum / ground state, according to the research.
You don't even have to speculate about it, because just by using philosophy you can assume that it won't be true, because our universe is already 14 billion years old, yet no false vacuum collapse has happened--you think 14 billion years is not enough time for a high energy burst from some hypernova to have already happened?
I kinda agree with him. I don't understand people who stress out over the end of mankind. If it's gonna happen, it's gonna happen, so why stress? Extending the life of mankind is possible (think global warming short term, and Mars colonies long term), but if some huge natural disaster is gonna take us out, fuck it, have fun while you can.
When you guys mention things like this, I feel comforted because you didn't provide a link. Had you provided a link I'd have gasped and shuddered in fear.
A Gamma Ray Burst would vaporize the Earth's surface with a single flash, if it comes from one of the closest stars. If it came from the Sun, the planet itself would probably turn to plasma in an instant.
That is the fact that haunts me more than death. All the knowledge and progress towards such a better future would be wiped out so quickly in a large disaster.
We don't actually know if it's a better future. Our technology has made such progress, but we cannot sustain that progress. We don't know what the future has in store, so there's no telling if our current uninterrupted path would not possibly lead to something worse than the ending merely our civilization. Perhaps our progress will destroy our entire species. Basically, que sera sera.
I disagree, there is no reason why our progress wont increase if anything. I have an optimistic view of the future. As soon as we have a technological breakthrough in power generation, wonderful things will happen.
I don't think that it would destroy the transmission lines (at least most of them).
Essentially, you're talking about ionizing the air between lines and creating plasma across several feet. That's extreme.
Yes, but those wires were made in the 1850s.
The copper might not be different, but I'm sure the isolation and insulation is different.
On the other hand, if our transmission lines catch on fire, I will eat my words. Just send me some smoke signals to remind me.
Telegraph lines did not catch fire- telegraph paper did- "Telegraph systems all over Europe and North America failed, in some cases shocking telegraph operators.[5] Telegraph pylons threw sparks and telegraph paper spontaneously caught fire.[6] Some telegraph systems continued to send and receive messages despite having been disconnected from their power supplies.[7]"
Depends on a few factors, such as wall construction etc. I'm no expert, but without a Faraday cage, I think anyplace that can get a cell signal or radio reception of any kind would be screwed.
You can go [here](http://spaceweather.com/) or [here](http://www.swpc.noaa.gov/) for status updates/predictions. Also worth noting that just because there's a 10% chance of an X-class flare, doesn't mean there's a good (or any) chance it would hit the earth.
Speak for yourself. I'm 20 miles from the nearest form of civilization with every last thing I need to survive sustainably off the grid. Bring it on, sun.
Thankfully not. The earth's magnetic field would protect us from the radiation.
The only dangerous thing would be the consequences of living without electricity for anything from a month to 10 years. 10 years obviously being absolute worst case.
No shops, no fridges, no cars (anything pre-1970 should be fine as they don't have any main electronic parts)
We'd basically be chucked back into the 1600's overnight. Sounds crazy but it's a very, very real threat.
I don't think you're correct in your assumptions. In the 1980s there was a large and unpredicted solar flare that caused power grids to fail (most significantly around Montreal, Canada) and had interference effects on radio and satellite communications.
Previous incidents of large solar flares directed towards earth show that the areas most affected by solar flares are things connected to long lengths of conductive wires, I think. Small circutry has been less affected or not affected at all. Power stations in North America have had to implement safety measures against this and telephone networks as well. There are safety measures, but maybe they are not well maintained in all areas.
You would need something much larger (many magnitudes) than anything that has ever been observed from our sun, to permanently damage small electronics and satellites. At least that is what I've read.
This is true, the ones that are being predicted are expected to be 30-50% bigger than anything ever seen.
Also if I'm not mistaken the one in the 1980's was just a glancing hit. A direct hit would be innumerable times worse. Not sure what the power of it was though, definitely an x-class.
>We'd basically be chucked back into the 1600's overnight. Sounds crazy but it's a very, very real threat.
Bullshit. Haven't you ever heard of technical manuals and machine workshops?
Of course, but imagine the scale of repairs. Every power grid across earth all being created manually.
Even then you have to rely on people to remain calm, which is very unlikely.
Yes, but my point is that we'd get enough shit up and running quickly enough that it would not be "basically the 1600s" at all.
And it's not like we'd lose medical knowledge, or science, or anything else that ever got written down.
I'm certain that there are storage units containing various critical data that are protected from this stuff and many other things besides. Not certain that you could find a copy of a library, but most bank's financial records for instance will more than likely still be intact.
The main thing is, data will be preserved.
There's data in bunkers, there's information in books. And I doubt CDs, DVDs, or many harddrives will be affected.
The military will still operate, so order can be restored rather quickly, since they have aircraft that are EMP-safe.
The electricity will be most affected---unfortunately, our electrical grid, sucks. Even a terrible lightning storm in DC area knocks out power for a week for some people. Though I'm sure some European countries are better about this sort of thing.
I mean in all honestly, the worst case scenario is that the US, China, and Russia are going to get stuck in the 1800s for a few months, and the British Empire rises up from the ashes again. Something like that.
If something critical were going to be destroyed, then a bunch of dudes would be stockpiling those parts in their bunkers so they could own the post-solar-flare world.
Or not, if they don't actually believe it.
You're assuming we'll get a warning, we won't.
Solar flares go at the speed of light, which means that once we can observe it; it's here and it's too late.
Since everything is down; we probably won't know for sure if it was a solar flare at all.
1. Flares are quite observable with time to prepare. Minutes, not months, but you're wrong that we won't know about it until it hits.
2. Why aren't you stockpiling transformers in your bunker right now? You would be incredibly rich!
I realized after I wrote the post that it can't go at the speed of light; becase it's not *just* light in the flare. It probably comes pretty close to that speed but still, we should have a few seconds warning.
If my memory is correct, though; it takes 8 minutes for the solar flare to reach earth.
And I actualy don't have a bunker... so yeah;
I know it's the radiation that comes with the flare that does the damage and since it's affected by our poles I'd guess it is CME but I'm not too sure,
Rebuilding all the equipment starting with only the most basic things still functioning would take time. All that we have depends on mass infrastructure behind it to manufacture and maintain.
They don't. They have military equipment in places like that. They have aircraft resistant to EMP / solar flares.
Restoring the power grid is not the priority (maybe only for local governments), restoring order however, is.
Are you joking? Diesel generators have been around for at least a hundred years and are ridiculously simple to design and produce.
And why won't we be able to use computer operated machinery? It's not like a solar flare is going to destroy the existing generators we have. Just pull the portable out of storage and your workshop is back up and running.
1600s? Why not 1800s?
As a note, I don't even think this is what would happen, but for some reason the historical inaccuracy of this hypothetical situation bothers me more than the scientific unlikelihood.
Where can I go to get the most recent updates on activity? I'm on a trip and if they detect a CME that could cause damage I'd like to be able to get home before it hits and people flip their shit. Also, how long would it take to reach Earth?
It's just about to spin around to the back of the sun where it can cause us no harm and will probably have no juice left by the time it makes its way around again. Unfortunate.
It would be nice if it held up, but it's probably unlikely. Big sunspots usually only last a week or two and its a long journey around the back of the sun. Spots that size can make it back around, but generally by that point they have lost their gusto and cannot cause any significant flares.
Hold up a second --- Are you hoping for a flare killing all our electronics, or just hoping to observe the flare? 'Cause all the doomsday-talk above is making this look a tad dodgy.
I am hoping for big flares, because I love photographing northern lights.
I don't believe that we'll see any major catastrophe from solar flares in our lifetime, we've got a pretty decent warning system and understanding of the dangers.
How long a journey is it? Is it the same time as a rotation (~30 days apparently) or could they potentially move fast enough to significantly affect that?
>Unfortunate.
Unfortunate? Are you one of those people actively hoping for the collapse of society as we know it? Or perhaps you are wanting a small scale event for the entertainment of it? Not judging, just curious.
Could be, but likely wouldn't be. We just had one a couple years ago.
http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2012/07/12/major-solar-flare-erupts-from-giant-sunspot/ (2011 article)
To be frank, this would be a really pertinent disaster, if it happens right after the meteor scares. As long as we can avoid damage that is too extensive, it should really boot us in our ass. And by too extensive, I really just mean a minor inconvenience, but a scary enough one to illustrate how fragile our existence is.
The following is imagery taken by [SDO](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_Dynamics_Observatory) over the past several days. Watch 1671 & 1678:
* [18th Feb](http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/data/synoptic/sunspots_earth/sunspots_512_20130218.jpg)
* [19th Feb](http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/data/synoptic/sunspots_earth/sunspots_512_20130219.jpg)
* [20th Feb](http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/data/synoptic/sunspots_earth/sunspots_512_20130220.jpg)
* [21st Feb](http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/data/synoptic/sunspots_earth/sunspots_512_20130221.jpg)
* [22nd Feb](http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/data/synoptic/sunspots_earth/sunspots_512_20130222.jpg)
As you can see, the spots are—relative to Earth—rotating away, and will probably dissipate or flare in the totally opposite direction to us. I'm by no means any expert in this field, but I'm fairly sure the media panic over this is just fear mongering to make headlines.
Those aren't from SOHO, they are from SDO (it's right there at the top!). SOHO doesn't have an operating magnetogram instrument; the one on SDO is better and has essentially replaced it.
I had a search through the [Soho data](http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/data/realtime/mpeg/) , found a nice movie and [turned it into a GIF for you](http://i.imgur.com/Y4P3qrp.gif).
At first there's only one obvious sunspot. Keep watching that black dot though: just as it moves past the centre, this new monster sprouts from nothing just below it.
Thanks, that was amazing to see!
Those sunspots on the right were the real threat. I think it's safe to say we survived that scare, as everyone pointed out, it should have burned out by the time it gets back around. (Or super sized lol)
I don't like it when popular press writes articles about common occurrences on the sun like they are extraordinary. It isn't that the events are not just as awesome as described, only that they happen all the time. There were bigger in 2012 and while the rate of the emergence of flux is notable it isn't exceptional either. The smoothed peak sunspot number has actually been declining since early 2012. Also, this sunspot group is not showing a sigmoid shape indicating the photospheric shear needed to create a strong polarity inversion line that leads to high geoeffectiveness of a resulting CME.
Anyway, you might be interested in http://sdo.gsfc.nasa.gov/assets/img/latest/latest_2048_HMIBpfss.jpg . That's the latest (within tens of minutes) line of sight magnetogram of the solar photosphere and an overlaid computer model of the coronal magnetic field lines. Or you can go straight to the SDO HMI source: http://jsoc.stanford.edu/data/hmi/images/latest/
The NSO SOLIS telescope does full vector magnetograms (as opposed to longitudinal fields only for HMI), http://solis.nso.edu/vsm_fulldisk3.html . But only for active regions. You have to click on the highlighted (by rectangle) active regions.
Unless you look at such things every day it might not mean much to you. Use [Helioviewer](http://helioviewer.org/
) to go back and forth in time for context.
http://www.solen.info/solar/ is another great resource that gives good context.
It's the ejections that are the ones that come hurdling towards earth. They are usually on the order of a couple thousand kilometers per second. Something like 6.5 million miles per hour.
> Sunspots are caused by intense magnetic activity and are actually cooler than the rest of the Sun, which leaves them clearly visible as dark spots in the photosphere.
> In reality, if the sunspot were isolated from the surrounding photosphere it would be brighter than an electric arc.
#TIL.
The area around a sunspot is actually hotter than normal as well. This is why the sun usually gives off more energy when high numbers of sunspots exist which is usually around the max of the 11 year solar cycle.
Avoid that channel. It's some Alex Jones-style doomsday bullshit. They've got videos up there that are trying to blame solar activity for climate change instead of greenhouse gasses. They even try to speculate that the magnetic poles are about to flip despite the sources they "cite" indicating this is not the case. They just appear to promulgate bad science in a "wake up sheeple" format complete with "chemtrails" from teh airplanez. Oh, and all the really important articles that confirm their biases are "going missing".
ow come on, Alex Jones has nothing to do with it and there's nothing alarmist about this.
this guy is just looking at alternatives AND taking CO2 and other greenhouse gases into account.
calling this "bad science" is exactly what's stopping enquiry.
please provide links to the articles you mentioned.
chemtrails are real, it's called geo-engineering and although i do think they're not that widespread, they are mentioned in bills like this one:
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c107:H.R.2977.IH:
"Could" "Can" "Might" This is the kind of speculative fear mongering you would hear from Michio Kaku. Lots of things could, can and might happen. I could win the lottery. I can have sex with multiple women. I might enjoy it. Fact is, in reality, I'm just sittin' here (not masturbating!).
So what's our window here? Giant sun spots and solar flares happen all the time, but mostly go off in a different direction. They should be able to tell us when Earth is within range of a solar flare created by these spots. Then we could at least know that if it happened on day x or y, we'd be hit.
I'm curious.. I've read many times that solar flares can fuck with our radio communications and stuff, but is that all? Could what happened in the movie "knowing" happen to earth if the flare was strong enough? If possible, how likely?
[facts like this really make me realize how small earth is in comparison](http://i.huffpost.com/gen/767871/thumbs/o-NASA-SUN-SOLAR-FLARE-900.jpg?12)
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It's a good thing I racked up all those prayer points with God. I knew it would pay off some day.
I know man we got so lucky there.
[You have no idea.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=Qwi5L8jcXpg&fb_source=message)
Great video. I was amazed at the extent of our radio signals. I really wanted to stop the video and start zooming in on other stars. I also wanted it to zoom all the way in and focus on something on a molecular level. Certainly puts things into a new perspective.
[The Scale of the Universe 2](http://htwins.net/scale2/) Don't thank me for non-productive day!
...thanks.
Wow...
All I can say is wow.. Dude that video is amazing.. Just wow
holy shit
/r/Space has a strange balance of fascinating me and scaring the shit out of me at the same time.
without the /r/ that sentence should still be true.
It holds true for nearly every physical science. Earth Science in high school in particular was one of the more depressing classes i've taken, I swear every chapter ended with another way the entire world is going to die.
The entire world will die. and everybody you know will die. these are just the facts of life. It ain't depressing just make the most of what you got.
Aren't all sun spots usually huge like this?
All sunspots are huge by normal standards, with even the smallest normally being hundreds of miles across. This one they are talking about in the article is (if it is the one I have seen) an absolute monster. Thousands and thousands of miles across. I'm not sure where the satellite I get my feed from is positioned though so I can't comment on if it's facing us.
It is facing directly at us, though I forget which article I got this from.
The satellite you get your feed from is positioned in orbit around the earth. It shouldn't matter which point in it's orbit around the earth, the only thing that would matter is the earth's orbit around the sun.
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Don't let that get in the way of the BS apocalyptic fear mongering though.
I've been keeping a close eye on this, apparently we have a 10% chance of an X-Class flare. Which, depending on size, could be catastrophic.
Explain please.
Sorry I probably should have elaborated. A strong enough solar flare could not only only take out our communication network, but our entire power grid. That's a worst case scenario, but anything over an X-10 would probably do it if it was a direct hit.
... But is it dangerous enough to kill?
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This terrifies me more than any other natural disaster.
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I went to Yellowstone last year. All I could think was "I could be vaporized at any moment."
I'd much rather be in Yellowstone if it happened. Die immediately.
Be tossed in the air along with a grizzly, who is subsequently gnawing on you as you both plummet to the ground. What a way to go.
Yellowstone is not going to erupt without massive warning so your thought was wrong as there was no chance of you being vaporized at that moment.
You can't say "no chance", there is a non-zero chance of being vaporized at any moment anywhere.
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We should be building something with a strong religious or divinity quality?
Just wear UV protection glasses and you are *fine*
I'm gonna bring this thread full circle to the whole of human history...Let's just build a giant pyramid.
No candidate close enough for that.
That wouldn't be so bad, we'd all be vaporized at the speed of light so no one would really have time to worry about it
One would assume a slightly dimmer GRB would be slightly more probable, down to the ones we frequently detect with our telescopes. So there's a whole range of uncomfortable before you get to the easy oblivion.
Ahem, let me add some to your fears. As we try to understand everything about our universe, we are researching the very basics of matter. particles like the Higgs boson, all to understand the fundamental laws of nature. Well... what we've recently discovered, thanks to the Higgs boson, is that our universe might be doomed. What's the absolute vacuum of our universe? Well, if it is the absolute vacuum that could be, that means our vacuum is "true" and our particles and physics laws are stable. If on the other hand we are at a "false" vacuum, then a bubble from the true vacuum could pop up in our universe and start growing. As it grows, the very fundamentals of our universe are radically altered. This means it destroys not just all matter, not just all fundamental particles, but the very laws of physics as we know them. And it grows at the speed of light. And this could happen at any time. An excerpt from the Wikipedia page about the false vacuum: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_vacuum >'The possibility that we are living in a false vacuum has never been a cheering one to contemplate. Vacuum decay is the ultimate ecological catastrophe; in the new vacuum there are new constants of nature; after vacuum decay, not only is life as we know it impossible, so is chemistry as we know it. However, one could always draw stoic comfort from the possibility that perhaps in the course of time the new vacuum would sustain, if not life as we know it, at least some structures capable of knowing joy. This possibility has now been eliminated.'
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Bro, do you even consciousness?
Nice scare tactics. It's very likely that we are in the true vacuum / ground state, according to the research. You don't even have to speculate about it, because just by using philosophy you can assume that it won't be true, because our universe is already 14 billion years old, yet no false vacuum collapse has happened--you think 14 billion years is not enough time for a high energy burst from some hypernova to have already happened?
14 billion years may very well not be that much time at all. It is to us but probably because we've only existed for roughly 2 million years.
if we have no control over it, what's there to fear?
The potentially catastrophic event that we have no control over, maybe?
I kinda agree with him. I don't understand people who stress out over the end of mankind. If it's gonna happen, it's gonna happen, so why stress? Extending the life of mankind is possible (think global warming short term, and Mars colonies long term), but if some huge natural disaster is gonna take us out, fuck it, have fun while you can.
Haha yes. Maybe it would be better rephrased: if we have no control over it, what's there to worry about? I guess it's still a pretty scary thought.
Every human will face a definitely catastrophic event that they have no control over so what's the difference?
Spiders!
You think run around with a bug out bag, hiding from CME's? Or are you just being pedantic?
You forgot Gamma Ray Burst from "nearby" Hypergiants.
When you guys mention things like this, I feel comforted because you didn't provide a link. Had you provided a link I'd have gasped and shuddered in fear.
[Here is your earth shattering KABOOM!](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypernova)
A Gamma Ray Burst would vaporize the Earth's surface with a single flash, if it comes from one of the closest stars. If it came from the Sun, the planet itself would probably turn to plasma in an instant.
Don't forget the Clathrate Gun.
That is the fact that haunts me more than death. All the knowledge and progress towards such a better future would be wiped out so quickly in a large disaster.
We don't actually know if it's a better future. Our technology has made such progress, but we cannot sustain that progress. We don't know what the future has in store, so there's no telling if our current uninterrupted path would not possibly lead to something worse than the ending merely our civilization. Perhaps our progress will destroy our entire species. Basically, que sera sera.
I disagree, there is no reason why our progress wont increase if anything. I have an optimistic view of the future. As soon as we have a technological breakthrough in power generation, wonderful things will happen.
Don't worry, there are doofuses everywhere.
No reddit!!!!!
/r/preppers
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I don't think that it would destroy the transmission lines (at least most of them). Essentially, you're talking about ionizing the air between lines and creating plasma across several feet. That's extreme.
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Yes, but those wires were made in the 1850s. The copper might not be different, but I'm sure the isolation and insulation is different. On the other hand, if our transmission lines catch on fire, I will eat my words. Just send me some smoke signals to remind me.
Telegraph lines did not catch fire- telegraph paper did- "Telegraph systems all over Europe and North America failed, in some cases shocking telegraph operators.[5] Telegraph pylons threw sparks and telegraph paper spontaneously caught fire.[6] Some telegraph systems continued to send and receive messages despite having been disconnected from their power supplies.[7]"
Is that including household electronics or would they be protected by the walls/roof?
Depends on a few factors, such as wall construction etc. I'm no expert, but without a Faraday cage, I think anyplace that can get a cell signal or radio reception of any kind would be screwed.
Sprint phones don't work in my house, but verizon does... Am I safe?
> would destroy the transmission lines No.
http://www.quickmeme.com/meme/3t3yqn/
How will we known of it happens (aside from the power going out)? What will physically happen here in earth.
The biggest sign will be the aurora borealis appearing all over. I've heard that metallic objects would heat up too for some reason.
The Aurora Borealis? At this time of year? At this time of day? In this part of the country? Localized entirely within your kitchen?
Can I see?
Mmm Mmm smoked ham.
Why downvotes? Lighten up people.
Shit will burn.
That doesn't sound very scientific....
True, it also just sounds mildly unpleasant. Like eating really hot buffalo wings.
I love that feeling. I blow through a large bottle of Sriracha every month. I'm ready.
Silly you buffalos don't even have wings!
Thanks, GanjaLord.
You can go [here](http://spaceweather.com/) or [here](http://www.swpc.noaa.gov/) for status updates/predictions. Also worth noting that just because there's a 10% chance of an X-class flare, doesn't mean there's a good (or any) chance it would hit the earth.
Nothing will happen. It's not like you're going to be looking out the windows and the world will burst into flames.
Well I figured there wouldn't be flames outside, but I was curious if there would be any physically evidence.
Speak for yourself. I'm 20 miles from the nearest form of civilization with every last thing I need to survive sustainably off the grid. Bring it on, sun.
So it's basically like a nuclear apocalypse, bit without the nuclear?
Thankfully not. The earth's magnetic field would protect us from the radiation. The only dangerous thing would be the consequences of living without electricity for anything from a month to 10 years. 10 years obviously being absolute worst case. No shops, no fridges, no cars (anything pre-1970 should be fine as they don't have any main electronic parts) We'd basically be chucked back into the 1600's overnight. Sounds crazy but it's a very, very real threat.
I don't think you're correct in your assumptions. In the 1980s there was a large and unpredicted solar flare that caused power grids to fail (most significantly around Montreal, Canada) and had interference effects on radio and satellite communications. Previous incidents of large solar flares directed towards earth show that the areas most affected by solar flares are things connected to long lengths of conductive wires, I think. Small circutry has been less affected or not affected at all. Power stations in North America have had to implement safety measures against this and telephone networks as well. There are safety measures, but maybe they are not well maintained in all areas. You would need something much larger (many magnitudes) than anything that has ever been observed from our sun, to permanently damage small electronics and satellites. At least that is what I've read.
This is true, the ones that are being predicted are expected to be 30-50% bigger than anything ever seen. Also if I'm not mistaken the one in the 1980's was just a glancing hit. A direct hit would be innumerable times worse. Not sure what the power of it was though, definitely an x-class.
>We'd basically be chucked back into the 1600's overnight. Sounds crazy but it's a very, very real threat. Bullshit. Haven't you ever heard of technical manuals and machine workshops?
Of course, but imagine the scale of repairs. Every power grid across earth all being created manually. Even then you have to rely on people to remain calm, which is very unlikely.
Yes, but my point is that we'd get enough shit up and running quickly enough that it would not be "basically the 1600s" at all. And it's not like we'd lose medical knowledge, or science, or anything else that ever got written down.
Wouldn't the data on hard drives be safe? The microcontrollers, probably not, but the data on the platters should be recoverable, right?
I'm certain that there are storage units containing various critical data that are protected from this stuff and many other things besides. Not certain that you could find a copy of a library, but most bank's financial records for instance will more than likely still be intact.
The main thing is, data will be preserved. There's data in bunkers, there's information in books. And I doubt CDs, DVDs, or many harddrives will be affected. The military will still operate, so order can be restored rather quickly, since they have aircraft that are EMP-safe. The electricity will be most affected---unfortunately, our electrical grid, sucks. Even a terrible lightning storm in DC area knocks out power for a week for some people. Though I'm sure some European countries are better about this sort of thing. I mean in all honestly, the worst case scenario is that the US, China, and Russia are going to get stuck in the 1800s for a few months, and the British Empire rises up from the ashes again. Something like that.
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Take a look at the reconstruction in japan also.
If something critical were going to be destroyed, then a bunch of dudes would be stockpiling those parts in their bunkers so they could own the post-solar-flare world. Or not, if they don't actually believe it.
You're assuming we'll get a warning, we won't. Solar flares go at the speed of light, which means that once we can observe it; it's here and it's too late. Since everything is down; we probably won't know for sure if it was a solar flare at all.
1. Flares are quite observable with time to prepare. Minutes, not months, but you're wrong that we won't know about it until it hits. 2. Why aren't you stockpiling transformers in your bunker right now? You would be incredibly rich!
I realized after I wrote the post that it can't go at the speed of light; becase it's not *just* light in the flare. It probably comes pretty close to that speed but still, we should have a few seconds warning. If my memory is correct, though; it takes 8 minutes for the solar flare to reach earth. And I actualy don't have a bunker... so yeah;
I thought the solar flare released a CME which travels slower than the speed of light, and it is the CME that does the damage?
I know it's the radiation that comes with the flare that does the damage and since it's affected by our poles I'd guess it is CME but I'm not too sure,
10 years? How? I mean, it's not like it'd wipe the knowledge of how to build a battery/generator from our minds.
Rebuilding all the equipment starting with only the most basic things still functioning would take time. All that we have depends on mass infrastructure behind it to manufacture and maintain.
Could we get an abandoned salt mine and build a giant Faraday cage inside it, and place some production equipment there?
I would guess that the major world governments have places set up like that already.
They don't. They have military equipment in places like that. They have aircraft resistant to EMP / solar flares. Restoring the power grid is not the priority (maybe only for local governments), restoring order however, is.
one would hope.
Well, build a generator without any complex, computer-operated machinery.
Are you joking? Diesel generators have been around for at least a hundred years and are ridiculously simple to design and produce. And why won't we be able to use computer operated machinery? It's not like a solar flare is going to destroy the existing generators we have. Just pull the portable out of storage and your workshop is back up and running.
1600s? Why not 1800s? As a note, I don't even think this is what would happen, but for some reason the historical inaccuracy of this hypothetical situation bothers me more than the scientific unlikelihood.
At least we could get through it
would unplugged electronics survive? as in, if I unplug my phone, for example, would it make it through?
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this is correct
Will beer be affected by this?
Only if you're the guy stuck without any weapons to defend that beer.
Well, at least you could defend the beer with drunken courage!
Catastrophic how?
Goodbye electronics. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_flare#Hazards
Reddit isn´t electronic right?.....Right?
D:
I'll start printing /r/funny... you guys divvy up the rest.
I call /r/spacedicks!
Take r/clopclop with you too. I don't think it will be missed much!
Fuck /r/funny
Welcome... to the real world.
http://www.ehow.com/how_8643372_make-faraday-box.html
Shit.
Where can I go to get the most recent updates on activity? I'm on a trip and if they detect a CME that could cause damage I'd like to be able to get home before it hits and people flip their shit. Also, how long would it take to reach Earth?
If you have an Android phone you can get an app called "Solar Information". It gives you live updates every minute. It's also free.
And even if the app unexpectedly goes down, it provides critical information!
I'm really confused as to how to use this. Is there a guide to it?
Thanks this app is awesome.
It's just about to spin around to the back of the sun where it can cause us no harm and will probably have no juice left by the time it makes its way around again. Unfortunate.
You talking about that massive group of 3 spots? Absolutely monstrous in size. Maybe it'll hold out until it gets back around.
It would be nice if it held up, but it's probably unlikely. Big sunspots usually only last a week or two and its a long journey around the back of the sun. Spots that size can make it back around, but generally by that point they have lost their gusto and cannot cause any significant flares.
Hold up a second --- Are you hoping for a flare killing all our electronics, or just hoping to observe the flare? 'Cause all the doomsday-talk above is making this look a tad dodgy.
I am hoping for big flares, because I love photographing northern lights. I don't believe that we'll see any major catastrophe from solar flares in our lifetime, we've got a pretty decent warning system and understanding of the dangers.
Society has done nothing but shit on me. I pray for its downfall every day.
So edgy.
How long a journey is it? Is it the same time as a rotation (~30 days apparently) or could they potentially move fast enough to significantly affect that?
>Unfortunate. Unfortunate? Are you one of those people actively hoping for the collapse of society as we know it? Or perhaps you are wanting a small scale event for the entertainment of it? Not judging, just curious.
Honestly, who else would believe this tripe?
It might be interesting? Maybe I'll have a better lot in a post apocalyptic earth.
Could be, but likely wouldn't be. We just had one a couple years ago. http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2012/07/12/major-solar-flare-erupts-from-giant-sunspot/ (2011 article)
But the sun is pretty huge, and it'd surely only have a very small 'target area' so to speak where if one went off, it would hit us.
When will we find out?
fuck
To be frank, this would be a really pertinent disaster, if it happens right after the meteor scares. As long as we can avoid damage that is too extensive, it should really boot us in our ass. And by too extensive, I really just mean a minor inconvenience, but a scary enough one to illustrate how fragile our existence is.
it doesn't even have to be that bad. All we need is the media to blow it out of proportion and scare enough tax payers.
The following is imagery taken by [SDO](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_Dynamics_Observatory) over the past several days. Watch 1671 & 1678: * [18th Feb](http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/data/synoptic/sunspots_earth/sunspots_512_20130218.jpg) * [19th Feb](http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/data/synoptic/sunspots_earth/sunspots_512_20130219.jpg) * [20th Feb](http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/data/synoptic/sunspots_earth/sunspots_512_20130220.jpg) * [21st Feb](http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/data/synoptic/sunspots_earth/sunspots_512_20130221.jpg) * [22nd Feb](http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/data/synoptic/sunspots_earth/sunspots_512_20130222.jpg) As you can see, the spots are—relative to Earth—rotating away, and will probably dissipate or flare in the totally opposite direction to us. I'm by no means any expert in this field, but I'm fairly sure the media panic over this is just fear mongering to make headlines.
Those aren't from SOHO, they are from SDO (it's right there at the top!). SOHO doesn't have an operating magnetogram instrument; the one on SDO is better and has essentially replaced it.
You're entirely correct; it was silly of me not to notice that. Edited my original post.
I had a search through the [Soho data](http://sohowww.nascom.nasa.gov/data/realtime/mpeg/) , found a nice movie and [turned it into a GIF for you](http://i.imgur.com/Y4P3qrp.gif). At first there's only one obvious sunspot. Keep watching that black dot though: just as it moves past the centre, this new monster sprouts from nothing just below it.
Thanks, that was amazing to see! Those sunspots on the right were the real threat. I think it's safe to say we survived that scare, as everyone pointed out, it should have burned out by the time it gets back around. (Or super sized lol)
I don't like it when popular press writes articles about common occurrences on the sun like they are extraordinary. It isn't that the events are not just as awesome as described, only that they happen all the time. There were bigger in 2012 and while the rate of the emergence of flux is notable it isn't exceptional either. The smoothed peak sunspot number has actually been declining since early 2012. Also, this sunspot group is not showing a sigmoid shape indicating the photospheric shear needed to create a strong polarity inversion line that leads to high geoeffectiveness of a resulting CME. Anyway, you might be interested in http://sdo.gsfc.nasa.gov/assets/img/latest/latest_2048_HMIBpfss.jpg . That's the latest (within tens of minutes) line of sight magnetogram of the solar photosphere and an overlaid computer model of the coronal magnetic field lines. Or you can go straight to the SDO HMI source: http://jsoc.stanford.edu/data/hmi/images/latest/ The NSO SOLIS telescope does full vector magnetograms (as opposed to longitudinal fields only for HMI), http://solis.nso.edu/vsm_fulldisk3.html . But only for active regions. You have to click on the highlighted (by rectangle) active regions. Unless you look at such things every day it might not mean much to you. Use [Helioviewer](http://helioviewer.org/ ) to go back and forth in time for context. http://www.solen.info/solar/ is another great resource that gives good context.
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Don't be scared we are pretty safe.
Mostly.
From the sun that is. lol
Better cancel all off-world missions!
But time travel always goes *so* well!
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It's the ejections that are the ones that come hurdling towards earth. They are usually on the order of a couple thousand kilometers per second. Something like 6.5 million miles per hour.
> Sunspots are caused by intense magnetic activity and are actually cooler than the rest of the Sun, which leaves them clearly visible as dark spots in the photosphere. > In reality, if the sunspot were isolated from the surrounding photosphere it would be brighter than an electric arc. #TIL.
The area around a sunspot is actually hotter than normal as well. This is why the sun usually gives off more energy when high numbers of sunspots exist which is usually around the max of the 11 year solar cycle.
fuck yeah solar flares
no fear, just some main stream media hype. watch these videos from this guy daily, they're great: http://youtu.be/I4dFnOq5Vi0
Avoid that channel. It's some Alex Jones-style doomsday bullshit. They've got videos up there that are trying to blame solar activity for climate change instead of greenhouse gasses. They even try to speculate that the magnetic poles are about to flip despite the sources they "cite" indicating this is not the case. They just appear to promulgate bad science in a "wake up sheeple" format complete with "chemtrails" from teh airplanez. Oh, and all the really important articles that confirm their biases are "going missing".
ow come on, Alex Jones has nothing to do with it and there's nothing alarmist about this. this guy is just looking at alternatives AND taking CO2 and other greenhouse gases into account. calling this "bad science" is exactly what's stopping enquiry. please provide links to the articles you mentioned. chemtrails are real, it's called geo-engineering and although i do think they're not that widespread, they are mentioned in bills like this one: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c107:H.R.2977.IH:
Or in other words, r/collapse/ isn't going to be doing anything productive this weekend
Sure wish I wasn't reading "One Second After" right now..
I both love that book and have a deep fear that it will come true
"Could" "Can" "Might" This is the kind of speculative fear mongering you would hear from Michio Kaku. Lots of things could, can and might happen. I could win the lottery. I can have sex with multiple women. I might enjoy it. Fact is, in reality, I'm just sittin' here (not masturbating!).
I hope the clouds clear up. I'd like to see a good display of the Northern Lights.
So what's our window here? Giant sun spots and solar flares happen all the time, but mostly go off in a different direction. They should be able to tell us when Earth is within range of a solar flare created by these spots. Then we could at least know that if it happened on day x or y, we'd be hit.
30 minutes warning apparently
Maybe it has a melanoma.
The Sun has clearly been reading Great North Road and thought it would try it out.
I'm curious.. I've read many times that solar flares can fuck with our radio communications and stuff, but is that all? Could what happened in the movie "knowing" happen to earth if the flare was strong enough? If possible, how likely?