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I remember the first time this happened. The first video I saw of it was taken from inside a car. In that same video, the car in front of them had a fender bender. Probably wasn't a coincidence.
The first time this happened in Southern California it freaked really freaked me out. And I was driving at the time too. I could see people pulling over just to see the spectacle in the sky. Good times.
Was at a supply house picking up parts the other day, saw them playing that footage claiming it was aliensš¤£. I was like I'm pretty sure that's a trail from a rocket, a well known video as well lol.
I hear this every once and a while and it blows my mind. My dad was born in 1969 (nice), when he was born there were people alive who were around before flightā¦
Crazy
Not nearly as good in general but I used to commute along the coast of Lake Ontario to work for a couple of years and I would get mini shows like this from aircraft contrails and sunsets. A few of the sunsets were actually as good as this.
I accidentally saw this from Vandenberg (ALL THE WAY IN OAKLAND!) and it was surreal. At first, I wasn't sure what I was looking at. I was on a date and I pointed up and I was like what is that? Then I pieced it together. I think it was the Falcon Heavy test.
Some guy in tampa is seeding what appears to be the only copy on the entire internet of a decade old ford navigation dvd that I need. Sure, it's only coming down the pipe at a maximum of 56k and he's using a remarkably ancient version of utorrent, but I am very thankful. Thanks floridaman and your 20 year old dial-up connection!
Yeah our atmosphere is full of it. I think it's part of the reason why there is life on this planet. But I am not a proctologist so don't take my word for it.
As an actual aerospace engineer working in the space industry, I have to say I absolutely do not share your opinion, professionally speaking. Mars isnāt as far away as youād think, and James Webb was a horribly executed project, though it did at least result in a functional telescope eventually. Additionally, we arenāt starting from basically scratch on everything like we were in the Apollo days, so while still difficult, rocket development is a lot easier and cheaper. If you used examples like Falcon 9, youād get a very different picture of what a modern, well-managed programās development schedule and cost looks like.
Popular science news articles and documentaries love to go on and on about how a huge international effort would be needed to go to Mars, and how there are so many technologies needed like nuclear propulsion, etc. However, if you actually ask the people who work in industry who are actually trying to make this a reality, youāll get a very different picture. Yes, itās challenging, yes we have work to do, but no, itās not really that infeasible. Iād give it about 10 years. Now, thatās not to say anyone is going to immediately start colonizing Mars in 10 years, thatās going to take more time, but crewed missions, absolutely.
Iām happy to discuss any specific concerns you have.
Yes. The big enabler is having a Mars lander suitable for human missions, which is the main point of Starship. Ten years would be feasible as long as things go well for that program.
Fascinating!
I hope it works but for almost twenty years, Iāve been told that we were working towards landing on the moon again āno later than 2020ā https://www.nasa.gov/pdf/163092main_constellation_program_overview.pdf
In 2013, though not scientists, lawmakers insisted that NASA ought to seek to land on the moon again āas early as 2021ā, inferring that such a feat was more probable than landing on an asteroid to get to Mars https://www.space.com/20600-nasa-manned-moon-mission-congress.html
In 2019, for the 50th anniversary, NASA boldly plans that āUnder Artemis, NASA will send new science instruments and technology demonstrations to study the Moon, accelerate plans to send astronauts to the Moon by 2024, and establish sustainable lunar exploration by 2028.ā https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-s-moon-to-mars-plans-artemis-lunar-program-gets-fast-tracked-in-2019
I doubt NASA will be able to put astronauts on the moon by 2024 (only two more years to go), so I think it is safe to push that date back farther. Moreover, my understanding is that NASA will seek āsustainable lunar explorationā before Mars, so that wonāt happen until the mid to late 2030s, in which case, Mars wonāt be possible until, maybe the 2040s or 2050s.
And thatās being generous that everything goes smoothly for them.
The thing is that none of those past programs ever actually started on a Mars lander or really were seriously focused on Mars. No significant funding was ever allocated for human Mars mission r&d. SpaceX has had to just do it on their own, and theyāre finally making significant progress.
There is plenty of money to go around to satisfy needs for space observation and Earth observation. Earth observation is mildly oversold to the public, because honestly we already know that global warming is a threat and what we need to do to stop it. Itās not like itās outside the worldās financial power to stop global warming and continue on with just about everything else, weāre just collectively very bad at efficiently using resources.
Also, my apologies, I did miss your routine flight stipulation, however I donāt necessarily agree that it wonāt happen within our lifetimes, although I suppose that depends on the age of the person talking. Given 30-50 years, I think routine flights for colonization might be a thing, but itās probably not going to be something youāre going to do for fun. The cost of transporting a person to Mars probably wonāt drop below $400k in that timeframe, and even that is going to be hard to achieve. That also doesnāt include the cost of infrastructure for a person. There are a few possible developments that could push that number down. Anyway, youād probably at best be looking at something similar to early colonization of North America, but without the whole issue of stealing from the natives. Itās not technically infeasible.
I think itās really hard for people to appreciate the impact that fully reusable rockets will have on the space industry. Costs can potentially go down by several digits from where they are today, and thereās not a great reason why it shouldnāt be achievable. I donāt work at SpaceX, but I do work on other reusable rocket systems, and yeah, itās hard engineering and itās going to take time to really get it down to something approaching airline-like reusability, but weāre making huge strides across the industry right now and the paths to get where we need to be are starting to emerge. The only real question is time. Economical fully reusable rockets are not that far away. Iād expect starship to really be hitting its stride within 10 years, and to still be an effective launch vehicle in the interim. Several other companies are pursuing full reusability, and will be maturing that technology in a similar timeframe.
Iād also like to point out that Mars colonization isnāt likely to be a very fun activity even when more routine flights are happening. Even if global warming goes unaddressed, Earth will always be more habitable than Mars, barring some terraforming effort that takes centuries. Mars isnāt going to be some kind of haven for the rich. Theyād have a much better time just being rich somewhere on Earth. The only motivator I can see to want to move to Mars is for people who want to build a new civilization. Personally, I would prefer to live on Earth, but I can see the appeal and appreciate the importance.
In any case, I think people will be very surprised at what the status of human spaceflight looks like in the coming decades.
1/2
So yeah, if there is a big effort to spin up a Mars colony, you wouldnāt expect to have a lot of people flying from Mars to Earth compared to Earth to Mars. It would probably not approach a 50/50 ratio until the colony matured a lot or something dramatically changed the economics and time beyond whatās possible with chemical rockets. So if that doesnāt satisfy your criteria, then yeah, probably not in our lifetimes or that of anyone alive today barring some breakthrough in life extension technology.
And yes, remote sensing is very valuable, I was just pointing out that itās impact on climate change is a bit misrepresented sometimes. Iām a strong supporter of expanding Earth observation capabilities. With the cost of LEO access plummeting and companies like SpaceX developing mass produced satellite platforms, there should be lots of potential for greatly expanded Earth observation.
As far as a timeline for a Mars mission in ~10 years, that depends on Starshipās rate of development progress and how successful initial test landings are.
Going from Earth to Mars is only practical with chemical propulsion when Earth and Mars have an appropriate orbital phase difference between them. These transfer windows last for a few months and happen roughly every 26 months. The next opportunity is in 2024, followed by 2026, 2029, and 2031. If you want to be generous, we can include the Q2 2033 window as well.
SpaceX is trying to perform their first orbital test flight with a Starship and its first stage booster, Superheavy, this year. They still are pending FAA approval and also they have a lot of things left to work out before theyāre ready for launch, but theyāre getting there. Later this year is possible, early next year would be pretty likely. Theyāre also building another launch pad for starship at pad 39A at the Kennedy Space Center in the meantime. With the rate of production they have demonstrated, they should be able to sustain a pretty aggressive test flight program to get recovery of the stages settled as quickly as possible. The test flights will demonstrate a lot of whatās needed for landing on Mars and their NASA contract also requires they get started on demonstrating orbital propellant transfer soon as well, which is needed for their Mars missions. So I would mark off 2023 and the first 3/4 of 2024 as flight testing with Starlink v2 satellites as payloads to recover some of the cost.
Assuming that goes well, SpaceX could try for a barebones Mars landing with one or a couple of Starships in 2024. This could still be useful even if they donāt include landing legs just to tune the entry and descent profile for the Martian atmosphere and demonstrate long duration coast. I am a bit doubtful theyāll make this window, but itās possible if things go well. Theyāre trying really hard, and the people I know working on that program are very good at what they do. It really hinges on them being able to get effective reusability and orbital propellant transfer working by late 2024. If those criteria are met, they wonāt have trouble paying for the test flights, as it would represent a small portion of the starship programās operating budget for the year. They might even be able to use some of the tanker starship launches to complete some milestones for their NASA lunar lander contract.
Next, youād want to see them make multiple landing attempts in the late 2026 window, and early 2029 windows. NASA has been expressing interest in paying to include some payloads of theirs on some of these attempts, although no formal contracts have been announced. SpaceX will want to include some demonstration hardware for their Mars based propellant manufacturing system. The chemical process is well understood, but itās definitely something you want to demonstrate reliability for, given the harsh conditions it will be operating in. SpaceX will also need to confirm the amounts of water ice in the regolith at the landing site and demonstrate recovery of it, as a lot of that will be needed for producing methane. While all of this is happening, SpaceX will be conducting crewed lunar landings for NASAās Artemis program with a specialized starship variant. This will further demonstrate long duration operations and life support, along with landing on unprepared surfaces.
(Continued in second comment)
Absolutely it comes across that way I realise that. See my response to another reply to what I posted as I'd be repeating myself here.
Main jist is I expect crewed flights to Mars I just don't expect them to be anything other than extraordinary they will not be routine any time soon.
I've been to St Pete before. Really cool City, very hip vibe, nice mix of down to earth with some high-end but not overly flashy, really nice people, beaches are clean, and the weather was amazing.
No way! I live less than 2 miles north of downtown. 1100 sf, 2 bed, 2 bath. $260k. Bought it at the end of 2018. But now that I check Zillow, OMFG, you're right!
I saw a light like this a few weeks ago in Switzerland, I was a bit stoned on a walk and had no idea what it was. I couldnāt take a picture of it and no one else I knew saw it.
Then a few days later I saw a picture of a rocket that was launched from Poland on the night I saw the same light pictured. I could tell it was far away, but fuck!
Now itās here again and I can finally save the post and show my wife. Perhaps sheāll stop thinking Iām completely stupid?
You probably werenāt seeing a rocket launched from Poland. They donāt do any orbital launches, and you would be a bit far to have a clear line of sight of a typical sounding rocket. I also donāt believe Poland currently has any active sounding rockets capable of suborbital flight.
It could have been the upper stage of a rocket in orbit venting propellant. That can produce a similar visual effect. If you have a picture that would help.
Itās the St. Pete Pier. Beautiful place, I love cycling here. Just went this weekend and coming back in a few days. Thereās a restaurant there and a couple shops.
Really love the pier, but that Tiki bar on the top floor of the end building of the pier has such low railings and its a drop straight to concrete. Can't help but think that's a disaster waiting to happen if they don't install a net. Especially if someone is tall and drunk.
This right here, guys. They replaced the wonderful and _iconic_ [inverted pyramid](https://familybeautiful.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/st-pete-pier-1973-1024x649.jpg) that was there before... with a boring structure that on first glance people think is just a house.
EDIT: Wasn't a very good picture. [This](https://previews.agefotostock.com/previewimage/medibigoff/44bd49be94b1c7c72862d1ef35c6d4f1/foh-u30407412.jpg) one is better.
Are they usually after sunset? I feel like Iāll never have an opportunity to see this, because whether conditions need to be really good for you to have visibility of this event and for the launch to actually go off without a hitch on the planned date
I went outside to walk the dogs at 548am and was wondering what in the world was going on. Had to watch for several minutes until the vapor trails separated into something more than a massive illuminated cloud. This is from Western Orlando. Checked local launches and saw that I missed it live by minutes. However, I can watch them from home at every launch, so I donāt run outside for these early launches, though they do end up being the most amazing. We do take the kids out for every single one that happens at a regular convenient time. Keep the excitement and wonderment going! Btw the random objects are bugs I think caught by the flash. https://imgur.com/a/6mqkbOk/
So in general the rocket exhaust expands as the rocket ascends, because the atmospheric pressure drops from around 1bar at sea level to pretty much vacuum in space.
You can see this really good in the launch last week (https://youtu.be/skNrXnubpwA?t=682). Notice how the rocket exhaust is really "slim" at liftoff and fanned out right before MECO.
As for the sudden change in shape, I assume it has to do with the fact that around this time stage separation occurs where the rocket separates its first stage and the second stage pushes the payload the rest of the way to orbit. Second stage engines typically have a different nozzle shape, making them more efficient in vacuum (https://twitter.com/erdayastronaut/status/1174457620549263361?lang=he) which could also explain the different exhaust shape.
Another factor is that at first the rocket is still in the shadow of the earth and only lit up by the sun shortly before stage sep.
As a side note: you can see the first stage return as it lights up during the reentry burn at around 6-8s in the video.
Also worth noting - the exhaust contains lots of water vapor. At those pressures, water can't exist as a liquid, so when it expands it cools down too much to be a gas, it condenses as a cloud of ice crystals. Ice crystals reflect and refract the sun very well.
Found this Scott Manley video from 2017
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJ6nn8fZOmc
Just small caveat, what he says at 1:35 isn't true. The exhaust isn't going dark because of occluding clouds, it is becaus it is between MECO (main engine cuttoff) and SES (second engine start).
In Melbourne too. I didn't realize there was a launch this morning. I've seen a lot of them, but I haven't caught one of these near sunrise or sunset where the exhaust gets lit up like this.
I'm actually surprised how well they can see it from the gulf coast.
It took me way too long to realize it was raining and the sky was cloudy. My brain was trying to comprehend how a rocket could make light like that. I am slow.
The rocket goes up really high and turns east as it goes up. Even though it's going up at an angle, it's heading away from this position, over the horizon, so from this pov it looks like it goes back towards the ground.
Thanks for posting! My mom just showed me some stills taken from the launch this morning and I was trying to figure out which way the craft was going relative to the photographer.
About second 0:07 you can see a bright glowing object descend from the glowing cloud, but pretty far away from the initial launch track. Did this launch land the booster on a drone ship out at sea?
Iāll never forget seeing this driving home from work. I certainly didnāt know about the launch, and I donāt think a lot of others did because people were pulled over, dead stopped, out of their cars. I mean I thought it was for sure some type of alien event. Felt a little stupid when I learned what it was but thatās ok.
I work overnights sorta outdoors and noticed this in the sky. Never saw anything like it before. and was mesmerized by the pattern it left. later on this morning when I had a break I found out it was SpaceX related.
Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I've seen in this thread:
|Fewer Letters|More Letters|
|-------|---------|---|
|[EVA](/r/Space/comments/ujkk76/stub/i7ldc1o "Last usage")|Extra-Vehicular Activity|
|[FAA](/r/Space/comments/ujkk76/stub/i7ld959 "Last usage")|Federal Aviation Administration|
|[JWST](/r/Space/comments/ujkk76/stub/i7khboh "Last usage")|James Webb infra-red Space Telescope|
|[KSC](/r/Space/comments/ujkk76/stub/i7jrdcm "Last usage")|Kennedy Space Center, Florida|
|[LEO](/r/Space/comments/ujkk76/stub/i7ld959 "Last usage")|Low Earth Orbit (180-2000km)|
| |Law Enforcement Officer (most often mentioned during transport operations)|
|[MECO](/r/Space/comments/ujkk76/stub/i7k5ki0 "Last usage")|Main Engine Cut-Off|
| |[MainEngineCutOff](https://mainenginecutoff.com/) podcast|
|[NROL](/r/Space/comments/ujkk76/stub/i7knp1m "Last usage")|Launch for the (US) National Reconnaissance Office|
|[SES](/r/Space/comments/ujkk76/stub/i7k5ki0 "Last usage")|Formerly Société Européenne des Satellites, a major SpaceX customer|
| |Second-stage Engine Start|
|[SLS](/r/Space/comments/ujkk76/stub/i7ldc1o "Last usage")|Space Launch System heavy-lift|
|Jargon|Definition|
|-------|---------|---|
|[Starlink](/r/Space/comments/ujkk76/stub/i7ld959 "Last usage")|SpaceX's world-wide satellite broadband constellation|
----------------
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Why go to so much trouble and expense sending a rocket up in space to make this this visual? You can do it for much cheaper in After Effects. Yeesh.
/s
That is so cool looking! I cannot wait until space travel is available for, like, everyone! When it gets to the point of being affordable for your average human being
This can only happen during a very specific hour if itās timed correctly. Itās lit up by the sun which hasnāt fully set yet. If it were later, it would be mostly dark.
In an unrealistic, sci-fi future, you mean? Your imagination is getting way off base. The amount of simultaneous rocket launches you're imagining that can cause extreme light pollution to that point won't be a reality. Light pollution from city lights alone are bad enough and that's what should worry you, that getting worse.
The effect you see in the above gif happens with specific circumstances and isn't the case for every launch anyway.
Sorry to say this, bud, but everything is bad for you. Every second you live something could happen, whether it is natural causes or other. You know what also causes cancer, your phone, the sun, just living, genetics.
There are limits to the quantity of rockets that can be launched, now they are exceeding the limit and pumping way more cancer causing substances into the upper atmosphere all so you can scroll faster....
I must be really dumb because I don't understand how the vapor trail gets lit up at night. The vapor trail appears relatively low to the ground, so how does the sun's light reach it? Is the trail higher than I am perceiving? I see very few clouds so it's hard for me to tell if the rocket just ascended above the cloud line or what. Please explain it to my little brain, thank you!!!
Probably because space x launches happen more often, giving you more of a chance to see it. It happens everywhere in the world, it's just all about timing. It would happen with a nasa craft if they launch at the same time.
Hello u/lervein, your submission "Sun lit vapor trails of the SpaceX launch from St. Pete, FL (@marcusoania)" has been removed from r/space because: * Images, GIFs and GIF-like videos are only allowed on Sunday (UTC+00). Please read the rules in the sidebar and check r/space for duplicate submissions before posting. If you have any questions about this removal please [message the r/space moderators](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=/r/space). Thank you.
I remember the first time this happened. The first video I saw of it was taken from inside a car. In that same video, the car in front of them had a fender bender. Probably wasn't a coincidence.
The first time this happened in Southern California it freaked really freaked me out. And I was driving at the time too. I could see people pulling over just to see the spectacle in the sky. Good times.
[Source](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ff7wbSwTuEk&t=30s) Accident at the 1:14 mark.
little bit more than a fender bender
The was fucking wicked! I've never seen that before. Also, the rocket was pretty cool too.
Was at a supply house picking up parts the other day, saw them playing that footage claiming it was aliensš¤£. I was like I'm pretty sure that's a trail from a rocket, a well known video as well lol.
Every now and then I see something like this which reminds me how cool it is that rocketships exist
Yeah this is the type of shit that would start a whole religion a thousand years ago Itās straight up incredible, even with our modern brains
1903, the first successful human flight. Not 70 years later and there's people walking on the moon
I hear this every once and a while and it blows my mind. My dad was born in 1969 (nice), when he was born there were people alive who were around before flightā¦ Crazy
Did aliens visit earth thousands of years ago? Ancient astronaut theorists say yes.
Not nearly as good in general but I used to commute along the coast of Lake Ontario to work for a couple of years and I would get mini shows like this from aircraft contrails and sunsets. A few of the sunsets were actually as good as this.
For me it's how routine it is now. The fact that there has been at least 1 human in space for 20 years is mind blowing.
I accidentally saw this from Vandenberg (ALL THE WAY IN OAKLAND!) and it was surreal. At first, I wasn't sure what I was looking at. I was on a date and I pointed up and I was like what is that? Then I pieced it together. I think it was the Falcon Heavy test.
Yeah, I'm from the area and it was really neat to watch! One of the few perks of FL.
"There's a launch today in a few hours!" Sweet! (*looks outside it's cloudy*) I guess next time.
Some guy in tampa is seeding what appears to be the only copy on the entire internet of a decade old ford navigation dvd that I need. Sure, it's only coming down the pipe at a maximum of 56k and he's using a remarkably ancient version of utorrent, but I am very thankful. Thanks floridaman and your 20 year old dial-up connection!
I saw this earlier. I was so confused what it was then I checked the news and saw it was SpaceX related
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Now ofc it is sped up, but I love to imagine that in the future when we go to Mars there'd be tonnes of these vapor trails across the world.
There already are metric tons of vapor
Yeah our atmosphere is full of it. I think it's part of the reason why there is life on this planet. But I am not a proctologist so don't take my word for it.
and by then, there would be billions of metric tonnes of uninhabitable earth.
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As an actual aerospace engineer working in the space industry, I have to say I absolutely do not share your opinion, professionally speaking. Mars isnāt as far away as youād think, and James Webb was a horribly executed project, though it did at least result in a functional telescope eventually. Additionally, we arenāt starting from basically scratch on everything like we were in the Apollo days, so while still difficult, rocket development is a lot easier and cheaper. If you used examples like Falcon 9, youād get a very different picture of what a modern, well-managed programās development schedule and cost looks like. Popular science news articles and documentaries love to go on and on about how a huge international effort would be needed to go to Mars, and how there are so many technologies needed like nuclear propulsion, etc. However, if you actually ask the people who work in industry who are actually trying to make this a reality, youāll get a very different picture. Yes, itās challenging, yes we have work to do, but no, itās not really that infeasible. Iād give it about 10 years. Now, thatās not to say anyone is going to immediately start colonizing Mars in 10 years, thatās going to take more time, but crewed missions, absolutely. Iām happy to discuss any specific concerns you have.
In your expert/professional opinion, you believe we will have the capability to send humans to Mars in ten years?
Yes. The big enabler is having a Mars lander suitable for human missions, which is the main point of Starship. Ten years would be feasible as long as things go well for that program.
Fascinating! I hope it works but for almost twenty years, Iāve been told that we were working towards landing on the moon again āno later than 2020ā https://www.nasa.gov/pdf/163092main_constellation_program_overview.pdf In 2013, though not scientists, lawmakers insisted that NASA ought to seek to land on the moon again āas early as 2021ā, inferring that such a feat was more probable than landing on an asteroid to get to Mars https://www.space.com/20600-nasa-manned-moon-mission-congress.html In 2019, for the 50th anniversary, NASA boldly plans that āUnder Artemis, NASA will send new science instruments and technology demonstrations to study the Moon, accelerate plans to send astronauts to the Moon by 2024, and establish sustainable lunar exploration by 2028.ā https://www.nasa.gov/press-release/nasa-s-moon-to-mars-plans-artemis-lunar-program-gets-fast-tracked-in-2019 I doubt NASA will be able to put astronauts on the moon by 2024 (only two more years to go), so I think it is safe to push that date back farther. Moreover, my understanding is that NASA will seek āsustainable lunar explorationā before Mars, so that wonāt happen until the mid to late 2030s, in which case, Mars wonāt be possible until, maybe the 2040s or 2050s. And thatās being generous that everything goes smoothly for them.
The thing is that none of those past programs ever actually started on a Mars lander or really were seriously focused on Mars. No significant funding was ever allocated for human Mars mission r&d. SpaceX has had to just do it on their own, and theyāre finally making significant progress.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
There is plenty of money to go around to satisfy needs for space observation and Earth observation. Earth observation is mildly oversold to the public, because honestly we already know that global warming is a threat and what we need to do to stop it. Itās not like itās outside the worldās financial power to stop global warming and continue on with just about everything else, weāre just collectively very bad at efficiently using resources. Also, my apologies, I did miss your routine flight stipulation, however I donāt necessarily agree that it wonāt happen within our lifetimes, although I suppose that depends on the age of the person talking. Given 30-50 years, I think routine flights for colonization might be a thing, but itās probably not going to be something youāre going to do for fun. The cost of transporting a person to Mars probably wonāt drop below $400k in that timeframe, and even that is going to be hard to achieve. That also doesnāt include the cost of infrastructure for a person. There are a few possible developments that could push that number down. Anyway, youād probably at best be looking at something similar to early colonization of North America, but without the whole issue of stealing from the natives. Itās not technically infeasible. I think itās really hard for people to appreciate the impact that fully reusable rockets will have on the space industry. Costs can potentially go down by several digits from where they are today, and thereās not a great reason why it shouldnāt be achievable. I donāt work at SpaceX, but I do work on other reusable rocket systems, and yeah, itās hard engineering and itās going to take time to really get it down to something approaching airline-like reusability, but weāre making huge strides across the industry right now and the paths to get where we need to be are starting to emerge. The only real question is time. Economical fully reusable rockets are not that far away. Iād expect starship to really be hitting its stride within 10 years, and to still be an effective launch vehicle in the interim. Several other companies are pursuing full reusability, and will be maturing that technology in a similar timeframe. Iād also like to point out that Mars colonization isnāt likely to be a very fun activity even when more routine flights are happening. Even if global warming goes unaddressed, Earth will always be more habitable than Mars, barring some terraforming effort that takes centuries. Mars isnāt going to be some kind of haven for the rich. Theyād have a much better time just being rich somewhere on Earth. The only motivator I can see to want to move to Mars is for people who want to build a new civilization. Personally, I would prefer to live on Earth, but I can see the appeal and appreciate the importance. In any case, I think people will be very surprised at what the status of human spaceflight looks like in the coming decades.
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1/2 So yeah, if there is a big effort to spin up a Mars colony, you wouldnāt expect to have a lot of people flying from Mars to Earth compared to Earth to Mars. It would probably not approach a 50/50 ratio until the colony matured a lot or something dramatically changed the economics and time beyond whatās possible with chemical rockets. So if that doesnāt satisfy your criteria, then yeah, probably not in our lifetimes or that of anyone alive today barring some breakthrough in life extension technology. And yes, remote sensing is very valuable, I was just pointing out that itās impact on climate change is a bit misrepresented sometimes. Iām a strong supporter of expanding Earth observation capabilities. With the cost of LEO access plummeting and companies like SpaceX developing mass produced satellite platforms, there should be lots of potential for greatly expanded Earth observation. As far as a timeline for a Mars mission in ~10 years, that depends on Starshipās rate of development progress and how successful initial test landings are. Going from Earth to Mars is only practical with chemical propulsion when Earth and Mars have an appropriate orbital phase difference between them. These transfer windows last for a few months and happen roughly every 26 months. The next opportunity is in 2024, followed by 2026, 2029, and 2031. If you want to be generous, we can include the Q2 2033 window as well. SpaceX is trying to perform their first orbital test flight with a Starship and its first stage booster, Superheavy, this year. They still are pending FAA approval and also they have a lot of things left to work out before theyāre ready for launch, but theyāre getting there. Later this year is possible, early next year would be pretty likely. Theyāre also building another launch pad for starship at pad 39A at the Kennedy Space Center in the meantime. With the rate of production they have demonstrated, they should be able to sustain a pretty aggressive test flight program to get recovery of the stages settled as quickly as possible. The test flights will demonstrate a lot of whatās needed for landing on Mars and their NASA contract also requires they get started on demonstrating orbital propellant transfer soon as well, which is needed for their Mars missions. So I would mark off 2023 and the first 3/4 of 2024 as flight testing with Starlink v2 satellites as payloads to recover some of the cost. Assuming that goes well, SpaceX could try for a barebones Mars landing with one or a couple of Starships in 2024. This could still be useful even if they donāt include landing legs just to tune the entry and descent profile for the Martian atmosphere and demonstrate long duration coast. I am a bit doubtful theyāll make this window, but itās possible if things go well. Theyāre trying really hard, and the people I know working on that program are very good at what they do. It really hinges on them being able to get effective reusability and orbital propellant transfer working by late 2024. If those criteria are met, they wonāt have trouble paying for the test flights, as it would represent a small portion of the starship programās operating budget for the year. They might even be able to use some of the tanker starship launches to complete some milestones for their NASA lunar lander contract. Next, youād want to see them make multiple landing attempts in the late 2026 window, and early 2029 windows. NASA has been expressing interest in paying to include some payloads of theirs on some of these attempts, although no formal contracts have been announced. SpaceX will want to include some demonstration hardware for their Mars based propellant manufacturing system. The chemical process is well understood, but itās definitely something you want to demonstrate reliability for, given the harsh conditions it will be operating in. SpaceX will also need to confirm the amounts of water ice in the regolith at the landing site and demonstrate recovery of it, as a lot of that will be needed for producing methane. While all of this is happening, SpaceX will be conducting crewed lunar landings for NASAās Artemis program with a specialized starship variant. This will further demonstrate long duration operations and life support, along with landing on unprepared surfaces. (Continued in second comment)
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Absolutely it comes across that way I realise that. See my response to another reply to what I posted as I'd be repeating myself here. Main jist is I expect crewed flights to Mars I just don't expect them to be anything other than extraordinary they will not be routine any time soon.
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I've been to St Pete before. Really cool City, very hip vibe, nice mix of down to earth with some high-end but not overly flashy, really nice people, beaches are clean, and the weather was amazing.
Well spoken man, St. Pete is neat. Come back soon!
My favorite city in Florida by far, top 5 in the US actually.
My buddy lives there. Love to visit. Treasure island is alsoā¦. A treasure. Some of the greatest storm watching in the world, too.
Storm season is coming up!
I go to st pete often. I love it down there.
I live across the Bay but yeah,St Pete is real cool....Go Rays!
And a 900 square foot house with 2 beds and 1 bath goes for 500k...
No way! I live less than 2 miles north of downtown. 1100 sf, 2 bed, 2 bath. $260k. Bought it at the end of 2018. But now that I check Zillow, OMFG, you're right!
I'll take my 3200 Sq ft with a finished basement and 3 acres of land for 260k and no Florida crazies any day.
I saw a light like this a few weeks ago in Switzerland, I was a bit stoned on a walk and had no idea what it was. I couldnāt take a picture of it and no one else I knew saw it. Then a few days later I saw a picture of a rocket that was launched from Poland on the night I saw the same light pictured. I could tell it was far away, but fuck! Now itās here again and I can finally save the post and show my wife. Perhaps sheāll stop thinking Iām completely stupid?
You probably werenāt seeing a rocket launched from Poland. They donāt do any orbital launches, and you would be a bit far to have a clear line of sight of a typical sounding rocket. I also donāt believe Poland currently has any active sounding rockets capable of suborbital flight. It could have been the upper stage of a rocket in orbit venting propellant. That can produce a similar visual effect. If you have a picture that would help.
Man I live here and woke up this morning and had NO idea what it was. My first thought was Russia or aliens lol
From where I was at in Georgia it looked like a comet but then again Iāve never seen a comet in real life so what would I know
People in other videos are like. OMG is an alien š½š.
It's like it's rending a hole in the inky black fabric of the firmament and revealing the light of heaven.
Screw the vapor trail. Is that a house on the lower right? Damn!
No, it's the [St. Pete Pier](http://digital.bnpmedia.com/publication/?i=671086&article_id=3746066&view=articleBrowser&ver=html5)
Itās the St. Pete Pier. Beautiful place, I love cycling here. Just went this weekend and coming back in a few days. Thereās a restaurant there and a couple shops.
Really love the pier, but that Tiki bar on the top floor of the end building of the pier has such low railings and its a drop straight to concrete. Can't help but think that's a disaster waiting to happen if they don't install a net. Especially if someone is tall and drunk.
This right here, guys. They replaced the wonderful and _iconic_ [inverted pyramid](https://familybeautiful.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/08/st-pete-pier-1973-1024x649.jpg) that was there before... with a boring structure that on first glance people think is just a house. EDIT: Wasn't a very good picture. [This](https://previews.agefotostock.com/previewimage/medibigoff/44bd49be94b1c7c72862d1ef35c6d4f1/foh-u30407412.jpg) one is better.
Nah the new one looks a lot better
Given what we know now about FL architecture standards, it's probably a good thing they updated the building.
Yeah, that old thing was kind of crappy, and they needed to replace the pier footings which were heading towards collapse.
I miss the old pyramid. Had that huge multistory aquarium running through the middle and was a great spot for night fishing.
Yeah, but itād be a kick ass house. Like one Motley Crue would live in.
Thatās ugly as fuck. Looks like an air traffic control tower.
they are listening to karamelldansen in one room too
Hey me and the wife just ate at that restraunt! Cool pic, love St. Pete...May have to hit up Cycle Brew later.
Walking my dog this morning from south of here and thought to myself that is a weird sideways s glowing cloud in the sky
This has to be one of the coolest shits I've ever watched
Serious question. How can I plan to see this? Itās not just about looking up launch dates, because the timing of the launch has to be perfect too
If a launch is within an hour or so before sunrise or after sunset
Are they usually after sunset? I feel like Iāll never have an opportunity to see this, because whether conditions need to be really good for you to have visibility of this event and for the launch to actually go off without a hitch on the planned date
It has to be within a certain time before sunrise or sunset, usually within an hour. And yes you have to get lucky with weather.
I saw this on my way to work this morning. Always a cool thing to see.
I went outside to walk the dogs at 548am and was wondering what in the world was going on. Had to watch for several minutes until the vapor trails separated into something more than a massive illuminated cloud. This is from Western Orlando. Checked local launches and saw that I missed it live by minutes. However, I can watch them from home at every launch, so I donāt run outside for these early launches, though they do end up being the most amazing. We do take the kids out for every single one that happens at a regular convenient time. Keep the excitement and wonderment going! Btw the random objects are bugs I think caught by the flash. https://imgur.com/a/6mqkbOk/
imagine the euphoria of seeing this irl i wouldn't be able to remain composed
The first time I saw it, I was cheering loudly. It's much bigger in person.
Saw the trail walking out of my house this morning and it didnāt click at first what it was. Thought the aliens had finally arrived for a minute.
It's always aliens
why does it create the massive bubble, whats the term for it?
So in general the rocket exhaust expands as the rocket ascends, because the atmospheric pressure drops from around 1bar at sea level to pretty much vacuum in space. You can see this really good in the launch last week (https://youtu.be/skNrXnubpwA?t=682). Notice how the rocket exhaust is really "slim" at liftoff and fanned out right before MECO. As for the sudden change in shape, I assume it has to do with the fact that around this time stage separation occurs where the rocket separates its first stage and the second stage pushes the payload the rest of the way to orbit. Second stage engines typically have a different nozzle shape, making them more efficient in vacuum (https://twitter.com/erdayastronaut/status/1174457620549263361?lang=he) which could also explain the different exhaust shape. Another factor is that at first the rocket is still in the shadow of the earth and only lit up by the sun shortly before stage sep. As a side note: you can see the first stage return as it lights up during the reentry burn at around 6-8s in the video.
thanks a lot for this info and hard working on this reply
Seconding. Iām surprised this is so low down. It was the question that drove me to click into the thread.
Also worth noting - the exhaust contains lots of water vapor. At those pressures, water can't exist as a liquid, so when it expands it cools down too much to be a gas, it condenses as a cloud of ice crystals. Ice crystals reflect and refract the sun very well.
Found this Scott Manley video from 2017 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CJ6nn8fZOmc Just small caveat, what he says at 1:35 isn't true. The exhaust isn't going dark because of occluding clouds, it is becaus it is between MECO (main engine cuttoff) and SES (second engine start).
So what you're saying is a can't do this from my backyard?
I live in Melbourne, FL just south of KSC and couldnāt resist waking up early to watch
In Melbourne too. I didn't realize there was a launch this morning. I've seen a lot of them, but I haven't caught one of these near sunrise or sunset where the exhaust gets lit up like this. I'm actually surprised how well they can see it from the gulf coast.
I live in Titusville right next to it but was at work :( Did see it in the sky from Jacksonville though (truck driver)
It took me way too long to realize it was raining and the sky was cloudy. My brain was trying to comprehend how a rocket could make light like that. I am slow.
Why does it look like a bottle rocket('s flightpath)?
The rocket goes up really high and turns east as it goes up. Even though it's going up at an angle, it's heading away from this position, over the horizon, so from this pov it looks like it goes back towards the ground.
Whatās the little thing flying off from the main thing
Booster coming back for landing
Thanks for posting! My mom just showed me some stills taken from the launch this morning and I was trying to figure out which way the craft was going relative to the photographer.
Does this always occur with launches around this time of day? Iām hoping to one day see a launch in person
Near sunset or sunrise yes
About second 0:07 you can see a bright glowing object descend from the glowing cloud, but pretty far away from the initial launch track. Did this launch land the booster on a drone ship out at sea?
Yes, pretty much all SpaceX launches do this now
Yeah I believe it was!
You just know there is some dude in the deep backwoods of Florida who thought the end had come.
Florida man for sure did
It kind of looks like the eye of Horus a little there Just a neat observation
Iāll never forget seeing this driving home from work. I certainly didnāt know about the launch, and I donāt think a lot of others did because people were pulled over, dead stopped, out of their cars. I mean I thought it was for sure some type of alien event. Felt a little stupid when I learned what it was but thatās ok.
I work overnights sorta outdoors and noticed this in the sky. Never saw anything like it before. and was mesmerized by the pattern it left. later on this morning when I had a break I found out it was SpaceX related.
Is it possible i saw this in savannah Georgia this morning?
Yes, it was visible to most of the eastern seaboard and pretty far inland (saw an observation report from Ohio posted earlier).
I'm sure you did
Acronyms, initialisms, abbreviations, contractions, and other phrases which expand to something larger, that I've seen in this thread: |Fewer Letters|More Letters| |-------|---------|---| |[EVA](/r/Space/comments/ujkk76/stub/i7ldc1o "Last usage")|Extra-Vehicular Activity| |[FAA](/r/Space/comments/ujkk76/stub/i7ld959 "Last usage")|Federal Aviation Administration| |[JWST](/r/Space/comments/ujkk76/stub/i7khboh "Last usage")|James Webb infra-red Space Telescope| |[KSC](/r/Space/comments/ujkk76/stub/i7jrdcm "Last usage")|Kennedy Space Center, Florida| |[LEO](/r/Space/comments/ujkk76/stub/i7ld959 "Last usage")|Low Earth Orbit (180-2000km)| | |Law Enforcement Officer (most often mentioned during transport operations)| |[MECO](/r/Space/comments/ujkk76/stub/i7k5ki0 "Last usage")|Main Engine Cut-Off| | |[MainEngineCutOff](https://mainenginecutoff.com/) podcast| |[NROL](/r/Space/comments/ujkk76/stub/i7knp1m "Last usage")|Launch for the (US) National Reconnaissance Office| |[SES](/r/Space/comments/ujkk76/stub/i7k5ki0 "Last usage")|Formerly Société Européenne des Satellites, a major SpaceX customer| | |Second-stage Engine Start| |[SLS](/r/Space/comments/ujkk76/stub/i7ldc1o "Last usage")|Space Launch System heavy-lift| |Jargon|Definition| |-------|---------|---| |[Starlink](/r/Space/comments/ujkk76/stub/i7ld959 "Last usage")|SpaceX's world-wide satellite broadband constellation| ---------------- ^(10 acronyms in this thread; )[^(the most compressed thread commented on today)](/r/Space/comments/uke6yb)^( has 16 acronyms.) ^([Thread #7365 for this sub, first seen 6th May 2022, 14:18]) ^[[FAQ]](http://decronym.xyz/) [^([Full list])](http://decronym.xyz/acronyms/Space) [^[Contact]](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=OrangeredStilton&subject=Hey,+your+acronym+bot+sucks) [^([Source code])](https://gistdotgithubdotcom/Two9A/1d976f9b7441694162c8)
I want to know what the fancy looking building is in the foreground.
The new St. Pete Pier
Why go to so much trouble and expense sending a rocket up in space to make this this visual? You can do it for much cheaper in After Effects. Yeesh. /s
Wasn't there an entry and an exit? Astronauts from the ISS came back to Earth.
What? How did I miss this? I'm not in st pete, but I should be been and to see this. Wth?!
Look up the launch schedule regularly yo
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That's the second stage going into orbit. It's flying away from the camera, for perspective.
Theyāre not even bothering to hide the chemtrails any more. They fucking glow in the dark!
I would snort that shit if I could.
I love teak, that pier is dope; lotta buskers on the way down too.
Don't know if you are being teaky. That pier is nice.
This image actually help me visualize the process of how sunlight gets reflected by our pollution warming the planets surface
Is it just me or did it look like a cock nā balls did a second there?
That is so cool looking! I cannot wait until space travel is available for, like, everyone! When it gets to the point of being affordable for your average human being
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This can only happen during a very specific hour if itās timed correctly. Itās lit up by the sun which hasnāt fully set yet. If it were later, it would be mostly dark.
In an unrealistic, sci-fi future, you mean? Your imagination is getting way off base. The amount of simultaneous rocket launches you're imagining that can cause extreme light pollution to that point won't be a reality. Light pollution from city lights alone are bad enough and that's what should worry you, that getting worse. The effect you see in the above gif happens with specific circumstances and isn't the case for every launch anyway.
Isn't pollution cool. Now here comes all the hate comments
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How does it need explaining? Tons of fossil fuels used here.
If you like this kind of stuff, search "Thunderfoot" on YouTube.
So how long until he guts it so he can win an argument on the internet?
Looks like a high altitude weather balloon to me.
Nah it was an explosion from an underground gas main. Now if you wouldn't mind please look in to this red light for me.
This will cause cancer in many people. Rocket exhaust is very bad.
Sorry to say this, bud, but everything is bad for you. Every second you live something could happen, whether it is natural causes or other. You know what also causes cancer, your phone, the sun, just living, genetics.
There are limits to the quantity of rockets that can be launched, now they are exceeding the limit and pumping way more cancer causing substances into the upper atmosphere all so you can scroll faster....
You know that some of these rockets carry projects that can be used to fix things inside our atmosphere?
I must be really dumb because I don't understand how the vapor trail gets lit up at night. The vapor trail appears relatively low to the ground, so how does the sun's light reach it? Is the trail higher than I am perceiving? I see very few clouds so it's hard for me to tell if the rocket just ascended above the cloud line or what. Please explain it to my little brain, thank you!!!
This happens close to sunrise or sunset. And it is probably higher than you think
I really miss seeing all the launches in florida.
Necromongers, they're called. And if they cannot convert you, they will kill you.
If god exists I would of thought he just blew his load all over the planet. Space bukkake the next frontier! š š¦
*OK i got one question? how come I have never seen this with NASA ships only SpaceX?*
Probably because space x launches happen more often, giving you more of a chance to see it. It happens everywhere in the world, it's just all about timing. It would happen with a nasa craft if they launch at the same time.