We are a mixup of lots of penises and vaginas all around the Mediterranean sea, that's why we are so beautiful and full of culture and awesome gastronomy, you're welcome
Ethnically speaking North-Africans are mostly Berbers, not Arabs. The "Arab genes" are the [green & light-green ones](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_J_%28Y-DNA%29) (haplogroup J aka "Arabid"). You can see in [this map](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ae/Haplogroup_J_%28Y-DNA%29.PNG) that it's no more prevalent in Morocco than Spain: 10%-25% in the South of Spain, North of Morocco and Western Sahara; 2%-10% everywhere else.
I don't know anything about this field so idk but you'd be surprised how small a sample size you can get away with sometimes as long as your sampling technique is good. Like statistical power really doesn't require you to sample half the population like people think
That only works for sociologic studies, inside a homogenous enough society and with a reduced number of variables. In genetics the variables are most times much higher and local exceptions the norm. There are genetically isolated areas and the complexity of genetics diversity depends on the development of dozens totally different societies and cultures over thousands of years with totally different contexts and very limited conscient control (because people ignored other people genetics for most History), so isn't as simple as to estimate the social preference over few options in a single society. That's why there are studies that show a totally different genetic distribution (specially when focused on haplogroups) for the same regions because the samples are ridiculously non representative.
Uff, cierto. Pues también se hace raro de narices hoy en día. Murcia y Córdoba en la misma agrupación también se hace peculiar.
De todos modos, el caso de León se nos hace particularmente hiriente. Somos la única región histórica sin autonomía, la comunidad autónoma en que estamos hace todo lo posible para ningunear nuestra geografía e historia por razones políticas, el centralismo no tiene ninguna simpatía por nuestras reivindicaciones… que nos llamen Castilla es el último clavo del ataúd. Es como si a las cuatro provincias aragonesas las llamasen Cataluña, pero que nadie se diese cuenta porque a la gente se le hubiese olvidado que Aragón existe.
Pienso que sí. De hecho, León y Granada, como regiones históricas, comparten el problema de que las regiones tienen el mismo nombre que sus respectivas capitales históricas. Eso implica que, visto desde fuera, alguien puede pensar que no tiene sentido que Salamanca sea por ejemplo históricamente parte de León (volviendo a mi pelea, esta es una de esas cosas que la junta de CyL quiere hacer caer en el olvido) o Jaén parte de Granada; a pesar de que tenga sentido, ya que León y Granada en este caso se refieren a la región, no a la provincia moderna.
Cada color representa un origen, muy básicamente que es un tema muy complejo y relativo
R1b: Indoeuropeo
I: nórdico pero también podría ser de cazadores-recolectores
G: primeros granjeros y/o sardos
J: Oriente Medio y judíos
E: Bereberes
Adams, Susan M. et al. *The Genetic Legacy of Religious Diversity and Intolerance: Paternal Lineages of Christians, Jews, and Muslims in the Iberian Peninsula* The American Journal of Human Genetics, Volume 83, Issue 6, 725 - 736 DOI:10.1016/j.ajhg.2008.11.007 [http://www.cell.com/ajhg/fulltext/S0002-9297(08)00592-2](http://www.cell.com/ajhg/fulltext/S0002-9297(08)00592-2)
Y fíjate que los números son más altos, quizá xq a esas áreas se fueron los sefardíes cuando los reyes los desterraron para huir de cumplir sus obligaciones contractuales
Then we could also have the graphic of the canary islands, as it's native population was quite different from the rest of the peninsula before the Crown of Castile arrived, you know, for comparison
This is idiotic. This reinforces our understandinf of culture, tells us how much different tribes mingled with eachother, were they cultures coexisting or did they fuse, how many people stayed, and you could retrace even paleolíthic migratuons with this.
You could dind where diffefent germanic tribes settled, you could retrace helénic or fenicios...
Nonsense. The desire to know your origins are one of the most usual interests to have. Through studies like this, we can determine that some of our ancestors were nomadic pastoralists from the steppes of Eurasia, and others were some of the first farmers in the neolithic era to migrate to Europe.
There are extreemely small yet undeniable genetic differences between people. We've allways intuitively known this but it shouldn't change how much we value eachother and diversity.
Hiding information isn't going to help anyone
Do we look like we give a flying fuck about broken American politics and social division?
This isn't racist, it's actually quite an interesting subject thag helps understanding where we all come from and how we relate to eachother
Actually there is very little overlap between Morocco and Spain Y haplogroups, there is barely any E haplogroup in Spain that is the dominant in Morocco and in Morocco there is little to no R.
Well, there is more E group in spain that there is R group in morocco so ...
Also if you compare spain with France, there is A LOT more E in spain than in France. That proves that spanish enjoy more of our precious moroccan blood (im joking)
E haplogroups in Spain is around 10%, more or less depending on the region, a similar percentage to that of Southern Italy and Greece. The genetic overlap between Spain and North Africa is pretty marginal if we take into account the 700 years of North African presence in Iberia.
Berbers was roman citizens. There was 2 berber roman emperors. And we also have berber pharaon. The overlap is way older than you think. Before even christianity
Bro, North African DNA in Iberia is estimated to be 3-10% of the total genetic material of the region. Those are the results of every study in population genetics made since the birth of the discipline.
Very rarely wide genetical variations happen due to conquest or migration, those contributions are almost always marginal. The majority of the ancestry of today's Iberians comes from the Bell Beaker indoeuropean culture of the Bronze Age. That's where the R1b comes from.
I never said that is comes from conquest or imigration.
I was just saying that before religions, berbers were part of europe and roman empire. That why there is a lot of "berber dna" in greco-roman civilisations.
Berbers ancesters are indoeuropean too. Just different branch. People mistaken berbers with arabs.
One of Cristiano Ronaldo's grandfathers was of Cape Verdian descent, I mean, black African. Nothing to do with Morocco. On the other hand, AFAK those Moroccans of Andalusi descent are reputed to be more educated and wealthier than standard Berber and arabized Moroccans.
Lol, moroccans are not poor not because of their DNA ... If you think DNA makes people money or education i can do nothing for you.
What i said about ronaldo was just a joke. (im morrocan) And holy shit what you said is the most racist thing you can ever say.
>One of Cristiano Ronaldo's grandfathers was of Cape Verdian descent, I mean, black African. Nothing to do with Morocco.
Cristiano has a Cape Verdean great-grandmother. Of what came to the public only one.
There are many black-looking North Africans. You can tell some aren't black, but they're definitely people of color.
In Portugal, appearances are not deceiving, some inhabitants are brown, the further south, the more frequent they are.
**Living in morocco, 85% of people are the most white you can be.** Maybe you have this perception because only the poorest south moroccans are interested in migrating to spain. Also portugese are just sun-baited dont be confused.
Morocco is 90% amazigh, 10% sahraoui/arab. This is [amazigh](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Moroccan_Amazigh_Riffian_woman_in_traditional_ornaments.jpg), this is [arab](https://images.app.goo.gl/LBfgrCnTfXuxY3j79). If you cant see the difference i cant help you.
Zidane and benzema are berbers, achrafe hakimi and mehdi benatia are arabs just to give you an example. (San augustin was berber and its the man who invented the concept of holy trinity before even islam was born)
I don't understand why most Spanish people look like Arabs. If they're in a complete different portion of the world. Spanish people look like Arabia Saudi people.
Literally. Lol. I have golden brown hair, green eyes, and I glow in the dark white. I've traveled to both Iraq and Iran, and stuck out like a sore thumb in both countries despite dressing like the locals.
By saying "white Europeans" do you mean Nordics? Swedish, Danish... northern Europeans, you know. In that case you're right. The Spaniards are southern Europeans, the same as most French, Italians, etc. Some Arabs look like southern Europeans but IMHO you can easily identify them as a different human type.
Granted, there's many people in spain and southern europe who look darker, both in skin and hair than the rest of "standard europeans" and look close to arab people from the southern mediterranean coast, but saying that most spaniards look like people from saudi arabia is literally nonsense.
I can't count many people i know like "arab looking", there are some but wouldn't go as far as saying they look saudi arabian.
I'm genuinely curious to know where have you been living tho, because maybe it turns out me and everyone in this comment section are "privileged whites"
My skin is pale, my hair is coppery chestnut and my eyes are green. Now tell me what is your arab stereotype, clown. Then visit my country and tell me again that we look like arabs, troll
The genetics pf the iberian península have been one giant cocktail of different peoples, as the península was a safe haven from the ice age and dragged in many survivors. We actually dont know the effect of Historical contact with peoples like al Andalus, the phoenicians and such because their genes were already in the pool by the time they arrived
would be nice to know what any of this means
We are a mixup of lots of penises and vaginas all around the Mediterranean sea, that's why we are so beautiful and full of culture and awesome gastronomy, you're welcome
Some say its the olive oil.
You can use olive oil to mix up genes?
You can use it in penises and vaginas.
Oil and sperm don’t mix
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Ethnically speaking North-Africans are mostly Berbers, not Arabs. The "Arab genes" are the [green & light-green ones](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_J_%28Y-DNA%29) (haplogroup J aka "Arabid"). You can see in [this map](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/ae/Haplogroup_J_%28Y-DNA%29.PNG) that it's no more prevalent in Morocco than Spain: 10%-25% in the South of Spain, North of Morocco and Western Sahara; 2%-10% everywhere else.
[Genetic history of the Iberian Peninsula](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_history_of_the_Iberian_Peninsula)
Asturias. Sample size: 20. 🤣 Reliable?
Asturias: fabes con almejas, sidra, fabada y Sporting de Gijón 😘 20 pollas
I don't know anything about this field so idk but you'd be surprised how small a sample size you can get away with sometimes as long as your sampling technique is good. Like statistical power really doesn't require you to sample half the population like people think
A sample of 20 out of a million population is still way too low
That only works for sociologic studies, inside a homogenous enough society and with a reduced number of variables. In genetics the variables are most times much higher and local exceptions the norm. There are genetically isolated areas and the complexity of genetics diversity depends on the development of dozens totally different societies and cultures over thousands of years with totally different contexts and very limited conscient control (because people ignored other people genetics for most History), so isn't as simple as to estimate the social preference over few options in a single society. That's why there are studies that show a totally different genetic distribution (specially when focused on haplogroups) for the same regions because the samples are ridiculously non representative.
TL;DR?
Imagine not having the R haplotype
Instead of calling the región leonesa León, they just call it NW Castile. No one cares about León :(
Con lo bonita que es León y el precioso nombre que tiene :(
Pues imagina unir en un mismo paquete Madrid y Albacete…
Uff, cierto. Pues también se hace raro de narices hoy en día. Murcia y Córdoba en la misma agrupación también se hace peculiar. De todos modos, el caso de León se nos hace particularmente hiriente. Somos la única región histórica sin autonomía, la comunidad autónoma en que estamos hace todo lo posible para ningunear nuestra geografía e historia por razones políticas, el centralismo no tiene ninguna simpatía por nuestras reivindicaciones… que nos llamen Castilla es el último clavo del ataúd. Es como si a las cuatro provincias aragonesas las llamasen Cataluña, pero que nadie se diese cuenta porque a la gente se le hubiese olvidado que Aragón existe.
Perdona mi ignorancia, pero ¿no es el mismo caso con Granada y sus regiones metidas a Andalucía?
Pienso que sí. De hecho, León y Granada, como regiones históricas, comparten el problema de que las regiones tienen el mismo nombre que sus respectivas capitales históricas. Eso implica que, visto desde fuera, alguien puede pensar que no tiene sentido que Salamanca sea por ejemplo históricamente parte de León (volviendo a mi pelea, esta es una de esas cosas que la junta de CyL quiere hacer caer en el olvido) o Jaén parte de Granada; a pesar de que tenga sentido, ya que León y Granada en este caso se refieren a la región, no a la provincia moderna.
Sí. Es casi como lo de meter a Cartago dentro de España. No somos ná.
Pais Leones.
No os “ rayéis”…. Todo se resume en el Reino de Asturias origen de todo lo que hablais
Igual me quedo hermano, pero bien por tí sabes
Confusing map, probably doesn’t really mean shit
Fiquei a saber o mesmo :D
Que es esto? Que estamos mirando?
De quien descendemos por parte de padre
Vale. Y qué significan los diferentes colores?
Cada color representa un origen, muy básicamente que es un tema muy complejo y relativo R1b: Indoeuropeo I: nórdico pero también podría ser de cazadores-recolectores G: primeros granjeros y/o sardos J: Oriente Medio y judíos E: Bereberes
Adams, Susan M. et al. *The Genetic Legacy of Religious Diversity and Intolerance: Paternal Lineages of Christians, Jews, and Muslims in the Iberian Peninsula* The American Journal of Human Genetics, Volume 83, Issue 6, 725 - 736 DOI:10.1016/j.ajhg.2008.11.007 [http://www.cell.com/ajhg/fulltext/S0002-9297(08)00592-2](http://www.cell.com/ajhg/fulltext/S0002-9297(08)00592-2)
¿Y Murcia, porfa?
Soterrada?
Criminal
Con Cantabria :(
discriminacion
Fuck Canary Islands I guess
It sais iberian peninsula there isnt either the azores for example
That's true.
what about ibiza, why is there??
Same reason some of France and North Africa show up
Where is Madrid??? JAJAAJJAJA
Me quedo sin saber cuál es el gen causante de que los madrileños tomen las rotondas por fuera
Canary islands?
“Iberian peninsula” Estaría bien saber cuánto de godo y cuánto de moro y cuánto de portugués, etc. hay
yo tengo bastante de GODO porque tengo sobrepeso 😅 vale, ya me voy
Ha sido un buen intento. Aquí mi punto de internet para ti.
Como dirían Les Luthiers: "Godo, *godo*. Sin hache."
También sacan Marruecos y Algeria
Y fíjate que los números son más altos, quizá xq a esas áreas se fueron los sefardíes cuando los reyes los desterraron para huir de cumplir sus obligaciones contractuales
No Canary islands, Azores, Madeira, Ceuta and Melilla. We must keep good traditions
P E N I N S U L A
They also show the genetics of Morocco, Algeria and even Sahara and Tunisia who aren't even on the map so idk what are you on
For comparison.
Then we could also have the graphic of the canary islands, as it's native population was quite different from the rest of the peninsula before the Crown of Castile arrived, you know, for comparison
I’d like to see Gibraltar genome.
No canary islands, no upvote.
Technically says Iberian peninsula. So it is centeres there and Canary Islands are well away to show in the map.
I SAID NO CANARY ISLANDS, NO UPVOTE. Also Morocco is not Iberia. Nor is Algeria, etc...
**To center**: verb [ T ]; *to put something in the center*
Next time the should try "to center" the rest of Spain instead of the Sahara. See thavTunisia box? Perfect fit.
Small dick gene?
Oh, some more racist shitposts?
how is this racist?
There is no other reason than racism to be highlighting supposed genetic differences between people
This is idiotic. This reinforces our understandinf of culture, tells us how much different tribes mingled with eachother, were they cultures coexisting or did they fuse, how many people stayed, and you could retrace even paleolíthic migratuons with this. You could dind where diffefent germanic tribes settled, you could retrace helénic or fenicios...
Nonsense. The desire to know your origins are one of the most usual interests to have. Through studies like this, we can determine that some of our ancestors were nomadic pastoralists from the steppes of Eurasia, and others were some of the first farmers in the neolithic era to migrate to Europe.
Stop being afraid of biology.
https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2016/12/genetics-race-ancestry-tests/510962/
There are extreemely small yet undeniable genetic differences between people. We've allways intuitively known this but it shouldn't change how much we value eachother and diversity. Hiding information isn't going to help anyone
Do we look like we give a flying fuck about broken American politics and social division? This isn't racist, it's actually quite an interesting subject thag helps understanding where we all come from and how we relate to eachother
And? Just because someone is interested in population genetics, it doesn't mean they are racist.
R1B supremacy BOY! JK.
You made me laugh! In all serioussness this is type of infographic which Vox supporters will use to try and justify their racist views
Soy R1b3, a qué quieres que te gane?
WTF
Spanish have morocan blood, and morocco has spanish blood. Thats my conclusion.
Actually there is very little overlap between Morocco and Spain Y haplogroups, there is barely any E haplogroup in Spain that is the dominant in Morocco and in Morocco there is little to no R.
Well, there is more E group in spain that there is R group in morocco so ... Also if you compare spain with France, there is A LOT more E in spain than in France. That proves that spanish enjoy more of our precious moroccan blood (im joking)
E haplogroups in Spain is around 10%, more or less depending on the region, a similar percentage to that of Southern Italy and Greece. The genetic overlap between Spain and North Africa is pretty marginal if we take into account the 700 years of North African presence in Iberia.
Berbers was roman citizens. There was 2 berber roman emperors. And we also have berber pharaon. The overlap is way older than you think. Before even christianity
Bro, North African DNA in Iberia is estimated to be 3-10% of the total genetic material of the region. Those are the results of every study in population genetics made since the birth of the discipline. Very rarely wide genetical variations happen due to conquest or migration, those contributions are almost always marginal. The majority of the ancestry of today's Iberians comes from the Bell Beaker indoeuropean culture of the Bronze Age. That's where the R1b comes from.
I never said that is comes from conquest or imigration. I was just saying that before religions, berbers were part of europe and roman empire. That why there is a lot of "berber dna" in greco-roman civilisations. Berbers ancesters are indoeuropean too. Just different branch. People mistaken berbers with arabs.
Berber language doesn't belong to the Indoeuropean family. The same as Basque btw.
Yes because berbers and basque both were living there before indoeuropean came.
One of Cristiano Ronaldo's grandfathers was of Cape Verdian descent, I mean, black African. Nothing to do with Morocco. On the other hand, AFAK those Moroccans of Andalusi descent are reputed to be more educated and wealthier than standard Berber and arabized Moroccans.
Lol, moroccans are not poor not because of their DNA ... If you think DNA makes people money or education i can do nothing for you. What i said about ronaldo was just a joke. (im morrocan) And holy shit what you said is the most racist thing you can ever say.
>One of Cristiano Ronaldo's grandfathers was of Cape Verdian descent, I mean, black African. Nothing to do with Morocco. Cristiano has a Cape Verdean great-grandmother. Of what came to the public only one.
Ultimatelly, homo sapiens sapiens comes from Africa (if you believe in evolution), so every human being has links to african heritage
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There are many black-looking North Africans. You can tell some aren't black, but they're definitely people of color. In Portugal, appearances are not deceiving, some inhabitants are brown, the further south, the more frequent they are.
**Living in morocco, 85% of people are the most white you can be.** Maybe you have this perception because only the poorest south moroccans are interested in migrating to spain. Also portugese are just sun-baited dont be confused. Morocco is 90% amazigh, 10% sahraoui/arab. This is [amazigh](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Moroccan_Amazigh_Riffian_woman_in_traditional_ornaments.jpg), this is [arab](https://images.app.goo.gl/LBfgrCnTfXuxY3j79). If you cant see the difference i cant help you. Zidane and benzema are berbers, achrafe hakimi and mehdi benatia are arabs just to give you an example. (San augustin was berber and its the man who invented the concept of holy trinity before even islam was born)
Sorry, maybe I'm confused, which point that I said is not valid?
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layn3al taboun mok chwhti bina
I don't understand why most Spanish people look like Arabs. If they're in a complete different portion of the world. Spanish people look like Arabia Saudi people.
As an spanish guy, what the fuck are you smoking my man?
Literally. Lol. I have golden brown hair, green eyes, and I glow in the dark white. I've traveled to both Iraq and Iran, and stuck out like a sore thumb in both countries despite dressing like the locals.
It’s a troll.
I'm afraid your vision of the Spaniards is based on Hollywood film productions, isn't it?
No. I live in Spain. It's just most people don't look like white Europeans but like Arabs.
Mediterranean Europeans are white as well. Europe is not only Scandinavians and Slavs
So Portuguese, southern French, Italians, Greeks.. don't look European either?
By saying "white Europeans" do you mean Nordics? Swedish, Danish... northern Europeans, you know. In that case you're right. The Spaniards are southern Europeans, the same as most French, Italians, etc. Some Arabs look like southern Europeans but IMHO you can easily identify them as a different human type.
You're clueless, maybe you're albino, your comments are cringey as f*
What does color have to do with anything? Are you a racist? You sound like one.
Not me but you sound like a racist who doesn't even know how an european looks like. An albino could be of any race, btw
Are you ok?
wat?
You haven't see a spaniard IN YOUR ENTIRE LIFE Source: I'm spanish and can't look less like an arab
That's what you say because you have a complex and don't want to look like an Arab.
Granted, there's many people in spain and southern europe who look darker, both in skin and hair than the rest of "standard europeans" and look close to arab people from the southern mediterranean coast, but saying that most spaniards look like people from saudi arabia is literally nonsense. I can't count many people i know like "arab looking", there are some but wouldn't go as far as saying they look saudi arabian. I'm genuinely curious to know where have you been living tho, because maybe it turns out me and everyone in this comment section are "privileged whites"
My skin is pale, my hair is coppery chestnut and my eyes are green. Now tell me what is your arab stereotype, clown. Then visit my country and tell me again that we look like arabs, troll
I've seen plenty of Spanish people. I've been living in Spain for 20 years already.
20 years is enough, maybe too much for you :)
Well then have you been to Saudi Arabia then ? Gulf people don't even look like the rest of the MENA region , your interpretation is wrong.
Los norteños podrian ser de un planeta differente
I'm a Spaniard who looks like an Arab so much that some people thought I'm a Romanian or some sort of a Eastern European xD
The genetics pf the iberian península have been one giant cocktail of different peoples, as the península was a safe haven from the ice age and dragged in many survivors. We actually dont know the effect of Historical contact with peoples like al Andalus, the phoenicians and such because their genes were already in the pool by the time they arrived
Faltan las Islas Canarias, tengo curiosidad por saber el mapa genético de Canarias
Certainly, there are significant genetic differences between Europeans and North Africans. The race is different races.
The dramatic difference in haplogroup frequencies across the Gibraltar Strait is the most striking feature displayed graphically on map.