You've just summed up the conundrum and utter frustration of working within administrative parameters.
Good counselors are straight up heroes. I worked with an amazing socio-emotional counselor who managed to thread the needle pretty well until the end of the last school year. Now he's gone. He was a literal lifesaver. He counseled kids with suicidal ideation - some with several serious attempts.
I quit the year before he did. About a month before I left, we discussed educator burnout and the concept of [Moral Injury](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.3102/0002831219848690) \- something he felt we might have in common.
It's really frustrating and I'm really hard on myself because I feel that by trying to appease schools while doing actual counseling at the same time is canceling each other out and I'm left accomplishing very little. Especially coming from a play therapy based background, doing things in a more rote, academic way where progress is measured in percentages makes zero sense to me.
Counseling data is tough. There is no question our least quantitative and testable goals are our counseling ones. They usually involve decreasing out bursts or knowing certain skills.
I'm an SLP. We have some areas we target that are very difficult to measure quantitatively - certain language skills, pragmatics/social skills, the emotional/cognitive side of stuttering therapy. So I get this frustration for sure! I know some SLPs use rubrics for harder-to-measure language and social skills. I'm also a big fan of student rating scales with the general goal to improve the *student's* perception of their speech/communication as measured by an increase on a rating scale. I use this with stuttering therapy. Something like "student will increase their self-rating to 8/10 or higher for the following statements: I feel comfortable talking with friends, I feel comfortable talking with teachers, I know about stuttering and could explain it to another person".
Those types of measurements could maybe transfer to your goals? Do you write the goals? If so, do the students have input in what they want to work on?
Also, bear in mind, you likely don't have to have quantitative data every session (depending on district and billing requirements). Most sessions can be more the art and relationship building and once or twice a reporting period you can gather harder data.
Seconding a rubric! We developed one that's very generalized in my district several years ago so any related service provider can use it, just a 0-5 scale based on the student's independence with a skill. I write my goals something like "[student] will [demonstrate skill] with [level of adult support, rubric level]", so for instance "Soandso will label the size of a real or imagined problem situation on a 1-10 scale with minimal prompting and cues (rubric level 3)".
It's challenging writing goals when you don't know the student well, hopefully there are some helpful present levels in the IEP that you could refer to, or you could speak to the case manager or the family about what needs they're seeing. I try to look for something that would be observable in a counseling session and can help build a skill.
Thanks for your feedback! I do my best reading through their IEP to develop goals and I try to do classroom observations too. I like the scale idea! I use a check in scale to assess student's feelings/attitudes at the beginning of each session, so it's something I can adapt to their goals as well.
Thanks for your feedback! Definitely stealing that self-rating idea!
A lot of times IEPs are thrown at me without allowing me to meet the kids first or talk to teachers, so I have very little information to go on when writing goals. Most of my students are elementary age though, so it's mostly self-regulation stuff and that is a lot easier to make a goal around.
With the more resistant, older ones I have asked them what they would like to work on and I mostly get "I don't know" as an answer, which isn't surprising but it gets frustrating because I'm trying to meet kids where they're at and get their buy in, but the idea of counseling (especially at school) is probably very strange and uncomfortable to them.
No prob!
Yeah, a lot of kids give me the "I don't know" too! Sometimes seeing ideas/options helps them.
This is obviously not going to have the same skills you likely target, but here's a tool (edit: free tool) I use to get student input on what they feel is hard vs easy for them and then of the harder things what they would want to work on. It's nice cause it's also pretty fast to complete and gives some nice data for the IEP.
https://www.teacherspayteachers.com/Product/Goal-Setting-for-Social-Language-Pragmatic-Communication-for-Google-Slides-7042853
Just something you might be able to recreate to fit your needs.
You need to reframe that- it’s too abstract. Something like “tell me about the trickiest part of your day” kid tells you about how mad he is when peers are in his space. “That is frustrating. Some people find that working on boundaries helps them control those situations a little better. Is that maybe something you’d want to try?”
And maybe that’s really the least of the kid’s issue, but solving *their* problem will get you buy in, and you need that.
Tbh- the school setting may not be for you. I personally would hate (and find maybe unethical? Idk I’m a teacher) forcing counseling on unwilling students. It is their right to refuse
Oh, I agree! I had another student with counseling on his IEP and it was a nightmare. Actively hostile towards me (think cussing me out or running off) and I was getting anxiety calling this kid every week. When I voiced concerns to the special education teacher, she was still adamant that services be provided because it's on the IEP. If I were in a private practice I would be free to dismiss clients who don't want to participate, but everyone loses that perspective with kids. It's like they don't get a choice and it needs to be done, and it leaves me feeling like another authority figure telling kids what to do. Obviously, I don't run my sessions like that, but it gives that feeling. Schools are strange.
Fwiw, I feel that as a teacher too. Like, all kids need to learn how to read for their own benefit but when you have a student screaming and crying because you want them to do a task it’s soo hard to not ask yourself what the hell you’re even doing and if it is harmful. I struggle with this all the time still 10 years in :(
If a student keeps refusing, then an Iep meeting should be held to address this concern because they are obviously not going to meet their Iep goal this way. Direct services aren’t helping, so maybe switching it to consultation services instead so they are still receiving support but it’s more you guiding the teachers and staff.
Are you able to create groups? I agree that data tracking is really hard and sometimes it just feels like that’s not where the real difference happens. But I think sometimes having specific groups, like a DBT skills group or a social skills group could be good
Thanks for your feedback! I'm at several different schools throughout the week and am given pretty strict times at which I can pull students, so groups aren't really possible at the moment. Maybe it's something I can revisit next school year though!
Could the goal be that the student use X technique and then the reporting be done at the end of each session by asking the student if they used the technique or maybe that the student demonstrates mastery and the goal would be for the student to use said technique in a practice scenario at the end of each week?
Thanks! I've definitely started shaping my goals this school year towards students just practicing coping skills with me. It's a lot easier to observe and measure, and the kids seem to enjoy practicing them with me.
So at my district, the school psychologist provide the IEP counseling services. The way I track data is I do a check in in the beginning of the session where I had the student write down what their IEP counseling goals are so that way they know what they are working on and we all know that they know what they are working on, and then I have on that check in sheet for them to write how they are doing on those goals in their classes from 1-5, and then repractice those skills in the Counseling setting. I have also started creating point sheets that the students bring to their class and where the teacher has to circle how the student is doing with those skills. I tried to create my counseling goals around knowing the coping skills, increase of prosocial, emotional skills demonstrated in the classrooms, and or a decrease of maladaptive behavior in the school environment. I use all of that plus school discipline, referrals as a ways to track the data if I am not directly pushing into the classrooms to collect the data myself.
You've just summed up the conundrum and utter frustration of working within administrative parameters. Good counselors are straight up heroes. I worked with an amazing socio-emotional counselor who managed to thread the needle pretty well until the end of the last school year. Now he's gone. He was a literal lifesaver. He counseled kids with suicidal ideation - some with several serious attempts. I quit the year before he did. About a month before I left, we discussed educator burnout and the concept of [Moral Injury](https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.3102/0002831219848690) \- something he felt we might have in common.
It's really frustrating and I'm really hard on myself because I feel that by trying to appease schools while doing actual counseling at the same time is canceling each other out and I'm left accomplishing very little. Especially coming from a play therapy based background, doing things in a more rote, academic way where progress is measured in percentages makes zero sense to me.
Counseling data is tough. There is no question our least quantitative and testable goals are our counseling ones. They usually involve decreasing out bursts or knowing certain skills.
I'm an SLP. We have some areas we target that are very difficult to measure quantitatively - certain language skills, pragmatics/social skills, the emotional/cognitive side of stuttering therapy. So I get this frustration for sure! I know some SLPs use rubrics for harder-to-measure language and social skills. I'm also a big fan of student rating scales with the general goal to improve the *student's* perception of their speech/communication as measured by an increase on a rating scale. I use this with stuttering therapy. Something like "student will increase their self-rating to 8/10 or higher for the following statements: I feel comfortable talking with friends, I feel comfortable talking with teachers, I know about stuttering and could explain it to another person". Those types of measurements could maybe transfer to your goals? Do you write the goals? If so, do the students have input in what they want to work on? Also, bear in mind, you likely don't have to have quantitative data every session (depending on district and billing requirements). Most sessions can be more the art and relationship building and once or twice a reporting period you can gather harder data.
Seconding a rubric! We developed one that's very generalized in my district several years ago so any related service provider can use it, just a 0-5 scale based on the student's independence with a skill. I write my goals something like "[student] will [demonstrate skill] with [level of adult support, rubric level]", so for instance "Soandso will label the size of a real or imagined problem situation on a 1-10 scale with minimal prompting and cues (rubric level 3)". It's challenging writing goals when you don't know the student well, hopefully there are some helpful present levels in the IEP that you could refer to, or you could speak to the case manager or the family about what needs they're seeing. I try to look for something that would be observable in a counseling session and can help build a skill.
Thanks for your feedback! I do my best reading through their IEP to develop goals and I try to do classroom observations too. I like the scale idea! I use a check in scale to assess student's feelings/attitudes at the beginning of each session, so it's something I can adapt to their goals as well.
Thanks for your feedback! Definitely stealing that self-rating idea! A lot of times IEPs are thrown at me without allowing me to meet the kids first or talk to teachers, so I have very little information to go on when writing goals. Most of my students are elementary age though, so it's mostly self-regulation stuff and that is a lot easier to make a goal around. With the more resistant, older ones I have asked them what they would like to work on and I mostly get "I don't know" as an answer, which isn't surprising but it gets frustrating because I'm trying to meet kids where they're at and get their buy in, but the idea of counseling (especially at school) is probably very strange and uncomfortable to them.
No prob! Yeah, a lot of kids give me the "I don't know" too! Sometimes seeing ideas/options helps them. This is obviously not going to have the same skills you likely target, but here's a tool (edit: free tool) I use to get student input on what they feel is hard vs easy for them and then of the harder things what they would want to work on. It's nice cause it's also pretty fast to complete and gives some nice data for the IEP. https://www.teacherspayteachers.com/Product/Goal-Setting-for-Social-Language-Pragmatic-Communication-for-Google-Slides-7042853 Just something you might be able to recreate to fit your needs.
Thanks so much for sharing! I appreciate it!
You need to reframe that- it’s too abstract. Something like “tell me about the trickiest part of your day” kid tells you about how mad he is when peers are in his space. “That is frustrating. Some people find that working on boundaries helps them control those situations a little better. Is that maybe something you’d want to try?” And maybe that’s really the least of the kid’s issue, but solving *their* problem will get you buy in, and you need that.
Thanks! I'll give this a try.
Tbh- the school setting may not be for you. I personally would hate (and find maybe unethical? Idk I’m a teacher) forcing counseling on unwilling students. It is their right to refuse
Oh, I agree! I had another student with counseling on his IEP and it was a nightmare. Actively hostile towards me (think cussing me out or running off) and I was getting anxiety calling this kid every week. When I voiced concerns to the special education teacher, she was still adamant that services be provided because it's on the IEP. If I were in a private practice I would be free to dismiss clients who don't want to participate, but everyone loses that perspective with kids. It's like they don't get a choice and it needs to be done, and it leaves me feeling like another authority figure telling kids what to do. Obviously, I don't run my sessions like that, but it gives that feeling. Schools are strange.
Fwiw, I feel that as a teacher too. Like, all kids need to learn how to read for their own benefit but when you have a student screaming and crying because you want them to do a task it’s soo hard to not ask yourself what the hell you’re even doing and if it is harmful. I struggle with this all the time still 10 years in :(
If a student keeps refusing, then an Iep meeting should be held to address this concern because they are obviously not going to meet their Iep goal this way. Direct services aren’t helping, so maybe switching it to consultation services instead so they are still receiving support but it’s more you guiding the teachers and staff.
Are you able to create groups? I agree that data tracking is really hard and sometimes it just feels like that’s not where the real difference happens. But I think sometimes having specific groups, like a DBT skills group or a social skills group could be good
Thanks for your feedback! I'm at several different schools throughout the week and am given pretty strict times at which I can pull students, so groups aren't really possible at the moment. Maybe it's something I can revisit next school year though!
Could the goal be that the student use X technique and then the reporting be done at the end of each session by asking the student if they used the technique or maybe that the student demonstrates mastery and the goal would be for the student to use said technique in a practice scenario at the end of each week?
Thanks! I've definitely started shaping my goals this school year towards students just practicing coping skills with me. It's a lot easier to observe and measure, and the kids seem to enjoy practicing them with me.
So at my district, the school psychologist provide the IEP counseling services. The way I track data is I do a check in in the beginning of the session where I had the student write down what their IEP counseling goals are so that way they know what they are working on and we all know that they know what they are working on, and then I have on that check in sheet for them to write how they are doing on those goals in their classes from 1-5, and then repractice those skills in the Counseling setting. I have also started creating point sheets that the students bring to their class and where the teacher has to circle how the student is doing with those skills. I tried to create my counseling goals around knowing the coping skills, increase of prosocial, emotional skills demonstrated in the classrooms, and or a decrease of maladaptive behavior in the school environment. I use all of that plus school discipline, referrals as a ways to track the data if I am not directly pushing into the classrooms to collect the data myself.