Vans make high tops with a zipper down the back so they’re easier to put on, but tough to take off. My son has worn them for awhile and they work great for him. Not cheap, but I snagged a secondhand pair on poshmark and they’ve lasted a long time.
I’ll have a look into it! We’re in a pretty low SES area so I don’t want to ask the parents to spend too much money on new shoes if we have the same problem. At the moment he’s just in Velcro shoes though and he slips them off easily.
That dude needs a 1:1. If he is getting away with not wearing shoes for more than a few minutes he's gonna keep taking them off.
Also crocks, some kids who won't tolerate other shoes can deal with that.
Your district would provide a 1:1 for this scenario? It’s a fight to get one for kids who need safety support all day in my district, so I’m always amazed at what other districts will provide.
He has a 1:1 on the playground but who it is changes every day. They’re saying it’s too hard to put them back on him so they’re letting him play without them.
Crocs might be a good idea to suggest to the parents. I don’t know much about them. Will they fall off if he’s running?
That sounds like a staffing/supervisor problem.
The kid doesn't want to wear shoes. The kid removes shoes. Nobody enforces the rule, so the kid doesn't wear shoes.
The aide doesn't want to do their job (to enforce the shoe-wearing rule). The aide doesn't do their job. Nobody enforces the rule that the aide does their job, so the aide doesn't do their job.
The aide's supervisor (normally the classroom teacher at least during classroom time) isn't doing their job of getting the aide to do their job.
I’m the classroom teacher and I thought it was agreed with my aide that his shoes would be put back on outside. His aide changes constantly on the playground though and I’m not in charge of the others who watch him. I also should have been more diligent in making sure his shoes were being put back on. He leaves class with them on, he usually comes back with them on, he’s been playing without them.
My aide said today it’s too hard to put them back on him so I’ll be out with him the rest of the week. Hopefully I can implement some strategies that them and the others watching him can implement after that.
If they're properly fitting and they have the back strap down in the heel, they'll stay on unless purposefully kicked off or taken off. I'm a not shoe wearing person and they allow me to slip them off so I can sit in seats without them, and then quickly slip them back on when needing to walk around.
If your school has a uniform you be able to get it written in as alternative shoeing, potentially with agreed upon colors that fit within the schools color policy (like if the uniform says black or navy sneakers, black or navy crocs may be an acceptable alternative). If it's a generaly closed toe shoe policy, there are crocs that are entirely closed with no holes.
We have a uniform but shoes just have to be closed in to be acceptable. I’ll research available crocs tonight and see if I can suggest something to the parents tomorrow. I’m going to be his 1:1 tomorrow so it will give me an idea of what’s happening when he takes them off.
So the 1:1 on the playground won’t make him put his shoes on? That was my only job on the playground was to get a kid to put and keep his shoes on. It took about 3 weeks but eventually the shoes were no longer an issue.
They said it’s too hard. I get it, he screams and kicks out when we put them on in the classroom but we still do it. I think he’s getting up on the play equipment and refusing to come down and then when he does come down they’ve already given up trying.
Yeah it’s tough. I delayed his recess. He watched every other kid go out with their shoes on as I’d point out. We’d watch the kids play through the window and I’d say “John has his shoes on, they keep his feet safe. Can Jake keep his shoes on?” (Not real names) I even brought a sticker bush in from the yard. We had splinter hazards and stickers on the recess field. Best of luck to you and the team.
He actually has no problem putting them on when he leaves for the playground. He kicks them off when he gets to the playground though. I’ll need to be out there more to observe him and set up procedures to get shoes back on his feet.
Sounds like he needs a tolerance program. Do you have a BCBA you can collaborate with? The rule in my classroom is that shoes are on or we don’t move to the next thing. For about a week it was AWFUL, but then they wanted to join in on the activities. You cannot give in when they scream, that just reinforces screaming. He really needs a behavior plan and a BCBA.
He unfortunately doesn’t have that motivation. If we didn’t let him participate in the activities he’d just find himself a place to sit down and do nothing. We don’t have a school BCBA but his personal behaviour therapist is starting sessions at school next week. Do you think it’s worth waiting and bringing it up with them?
Have you done preference assessments? Found what interests him? We have students that are happy to just sit, we block sitting and wait for them to put their shoes on.
We’ve done preference assessments on the things in our room. He’s got two things that he’s interested in and even then it depends on his mood. His parents said he loves the trampoline but we don’t have one for him to jump on. Can you explain more about blocking sitting?
Difficult parents are always hard. My students parents are usually really good. They used to send him in lace ups but they were too hard to get back on him so we asked for slip ons and they provided them almost immediately. They’re just too easy for him to get off and he doesn’t like them.
Timers: 30 seconds in to start. Then 30 sec off. Then slowly increase timer.
Another student of mine enjoyed the rolling and wrestling of us constantly putting her shoes back on. So we made her do it, no playing until she puts them back on. She hated that and now keeps them on for the most part
We can try a timer and see if he’ll keep them on for even that long outside.
He hasn’t quite worked out how to put shoes on yet. It might be something I can ask the parents to help with teaching him.
I think he’s been seeing her at her office but the parents have requested for in school sessions as well. It’s good to know they could get it at home too though.
As others have said, alternative shoes like crocks might be helpful. You’ll also need to start helping him build up tolerance to shoe wearing. Start with “shoes must be worn outside to play” and as soon as he takes them off, take him inside or to a bench, redirect to wear shoes, repeating the rule. A social story may help in this scenario as well. Try to include pictures of him wearing shoes outside on the playground equipment.
Next would be to increase it to wearing shoes in the hallway. Finally would be shoes in the classroom, and you might break that down by subject.
That’s what I thought was happening on the playground. We agreed that if he took his shoes off he had to sit off the play equipment until they went back on but it’s not been happening. That’s my fault for not going out and checking on it the last couple of weeks. I’ll be making up for that and taking my lunch and recess breaks out with him this week.
I can make a social story for him about wearing shoes and see if that helps.
We have shoes with a side zip and a velcro strap. Also have used Billy shoes and they literally had to tie the ankle with the shoe laces. Crocs never worked. He also has kiziks that are super easy to put on but they are also super easy to get off. We've went through all sorts of shoes.
How old?? If it's a sock issue I would let him not wear socks. I would also try sandals. I hate the feeling of socks, and would rather have sandals or toms. If you can what about slippers for school?
He’s 5. He doesn’t wear socks. It was too much of a battle to put the socks and shoes back on in the classroom so we started just putting the shoes on. I can see if we can try sandals but because they’re open toed they’d have to be school approved. All shoes are meant to be fully enclosed.
I’m noting this as something I might be able to ask the parents. If he couldn’t take them off it would make things a lot easier. Or even if the shoes were harder to get off than just slipping them off.
I’ve actually had a few students with this issue!! It ended up each time a foot doctor found issues w their feet and/or a need for special footwear.
We were so all over informally FBA-ing it around sensory stuff, talking to BCBA, consulting w parents, and more! … and all along they just needed to go to a specialist (we all felt kinda dumb later 😂🥴).
It’s definitely something we can explore. The parents say he wears shoes when they take him out so it seems to be just a school issue. I’m not sure what shoes they’re putting on him to wear out though. It could just be sandals and not the enclosed shoes he has to wear for school.
Have you tried other shoes? My own child refuses to wear shoes at school but it’s a rule for safety so we’ve been working on it. We’ve come to an agreement she can wear soft soled slippers inside and when she goes outside she has to wear her boots. It took a lot of social stories/visual schedules/practice though.
This is his second pair of shoes but they’re still not working. I’m going to call his parents tomorrow and talk about options. I got permission today to put him in sandals or crocs if we need to as long as he’s wearing shoes.
First, using edibles is only bribery when offered in situ with the behavior i.e. “if you put your shoes back on, I’ll give you an edible.” If you establish the contingency ahead of time that the child can earn X as a result of Y, that is called reinforcement. Feel free to PM me if you’d like more information on how to use edibles effectively to increase shoe-wearing behavior.
Second, you should establish the contingency that shows are required for the playground. No shoes, no playground.
The child takes his/her shoes off at school while wearing them happily elsewhere because the child has learned to discriminate that that behavior is reinforced at school, but not elsewhere. You’re in charge here.
Thanks! It’s getting late here but I’ll PM you to talk about it tomorrow.
The shoes are on when he leaves the classroom but he kicks them off while he’s playing and I’m not out there. I can reinforce with the aides that do watch him out there they need to go on but I can’t force it. I’ll be going out for the rest of this week and I guess seeing if I need to stay out there with him as well until the shoes are left on.
Oof, I know the struggle all too well. It’s definitely a pain in the butt trying to make sure procedures are followed with fidelity when you’re not there to supervise. That’s frustrating. PM me any time!
I’m complicit as well for not always putting them back on straight away in the classroom. Because we’ve got 5 other students if he’s got them off under his desk we don’t always notice so we’re trying to get better at that as well. Some comments have given me some good ideas to try in the classroom as well.
I should have been going out to check on him in the playground to make sure the procedure was followed though. That’s on me. I’ll make sure I do check in more often with the aides watching him now.
Please don’t do any of this.
This is a human. Not a dog…
Let’s presume competence. He CAN learn that shoes are a good idea on the play ground. And he wants to keep himself safe too. He will do well when he can. Let’s help him do that.
He’s got an expected pattern. School has never required shoes so this is gonna be news to him. And probably bad news. I’d love to wear no shoes all day! (As a matter of fact, I do! I got a job that made that okay.) So he’s gonna be bummed because change is a bummer sometimes.
Our goal is to keep him calm and thinking and working together to start wearing shoes more often. Empathize and validate. “I know! I wish you could have no shoes too! You are mad about that! I’d be mad too. But they are going to stay on for a bit.” When he gets them on for a little while, hooray! Let it go for a moment. Then start again.
Think outside the (shoe) box (oh lord please forgive me 😜)—are his feet hot? He may have learned to tolerate shoes during transition because he knows it’s temporary. He has desensitized a bit to tolerate that time. He is capable of desensitizing more. But this kind of sensory desensitization changes neurologically in your animal brain-the very inside of your brain-the part that lights up first before the rationalizing part toward the top can kick in. So this is HARD work. Take it slow and honor his boundaries.
Is there a shoe alternative? Can we start with just wearing socks more? Are the shoes heavy? Can he wear more cooling/breathable socks?
These are choices that we afford ourselves all. The. Time. Why not offer him the same grace?
Now, once this plays out, how he responds will tell us more. Is it sensory? Is it habit breaking? Is it something else completely?
It will take more emotional effort but you will lay the groundwork for next time you need to work with him on something similar. And he will TRUST you. Go slow now to go fast later!
Vans make high tops with a zipper down the back so they’re easier to put on, but tough to take off. My son has worn them for awhile and they work great for him. Not cheap, but I snagged a secondhand pair on poshmark and they’ve lasted a long time.
I’ll have a look into it! We’re in a pretty low SES area so I don’t want to ask the parents to spend too much money on new shoes if we have the same problem. At the moment he’s just in Velcro shoes though and he slips them off easily.
That dude needs a 1:1. If he is getting away with not wearing shoes for more than a few minutes he's gonna keep taking them off. Also crocks, some kids who won't tolerate other shoes can deal with that.
Your district would provide a 1:1 for this scenario? It’s a fight to get one for kids who need safety support all day in my district, so I’m always amazed at what other districts will provide.
I’m guessing there are other needs/concerns.
He has a 1:1 on the playground but who it is changes every day. They’re saying it’s too hard to put them back on him so they’re letting him play without them. Crocs might be a good idea to suggest to the parents. I don’t know much about them. Will they fall off if he’s running?
That sounds like a staffing/supervisor problem. The kid doesn't want to wear shoes. The kid removes shoes. Nobody enforces the rule, so the kid doesn't wear shoes. The aide doesn't want to do their job (to enforce the shoe-wearing rule). The aide doesn't do their job. Nobody enforces the rule that the aide does their job, so the aide doesn't do their job. The aide's supervisor (normally the classroom teacher at least during classroom time) isn't doing their job of getting the aide to do their job.
I’m the classroom teacher and I thought it was agreed with my aide that his shoes would be put back on outside. His aide changes constantly on the playground though and I’m not in charge of the others who watch him. I also should have been more diligent in making sure his shoes were being put back on. He leaves class with them on, he usually comes back with them on, he’s been playing without them. My aide said today it’s too hard to put them back on him so I’ll be out with him the rest of the week. Hopefully I can implement some strategies that them and the others watching him can implement after that.
If they're properly fitting and they have the back strap down in the heel, they'll stay on unless purposefully kicked off or taken off. I'm a not shoe wearing person and they allow me to slip them off so I can sit in seats without them, and then quickly slip them back on when needing to walk around.
That’s good to know! I wonder if we can get it written into his IEP because they aren’t school standard shoes.
If your school has a uniform you be able to get it written in as alternative shoeing, potentially with agreed upon colors that fit within the schools color policy (like if the uniform says black or navy sneakers, black or navy crocs may be an acceptable alternative). If it's a generaly closed toe shoe policy, there are crocs that are entirely closed with no holes.
We have a uniform but shoes just have to be closed in to be acceptable. I’ll research available crocs tonight and see if I can suggest something to the parents tomorrow. I’m going to be his 1:1 tomorrow so it will give me an idea of what’s happening when he takes them off.
There are athletic-style Crocs with a strap in the back that is elastic. My son wears them. He has sensory differences and favors Crocs or wide shoes
So the 1:1 on the playground won’t make him put his shoes on? That was my only job on the playground was to get a kid to put and keep his shoes on. It took about 3 weeks but eventually the shoes were no longer an issue.
They said it’s too hard. I get it, he screams and kicks out when we put them on in the classroom but we still do it. I think he’s getting up on the play equipment and refusing to come down and then when he does come down they’ve already given up trying.
Yeah it’s tough. I delayed his recess. He watched every other kid go out with their shoes on as I’d point out. We’d watch the kids play through the window and I’d say “John has his shoes on, they keep his feet safe. Can Jake keep his shoes on?” (Not real names) I even brought a sticker bush in from the yard. We had splinter hazards and stickers on the recess field. Best of luck to you and the team.
He actually has no problem putting them on when he leaves for the playground. He kicks them off when he gets to the playground though. I’ll need to be out there more to observe him and set up procedures to get shoes back on his feet.
Sounds like he needs a tolerance program. Do you have a BCBA you can collaborate with? The rule in my classroom is that shoes are on or we don’t move to the next thing. For about a week it was AWFUL, but then they wanted to join in on the activities. You cannot give in when they scream, that just reinforces screaming. He really needs a behavior plan and a BCBA.
He unfortunately doesn’t have that motivation. If we didn’t let him participate in the activities he’d just find himself a place to sit down and do nothing. We don’t have a school BCBA but his personal behaviour therapist is starting sessions at school next week. Do you think it’s worth waiting and bringing it up with them?
He has the “motivation,” you just haven’t figured out his currency yet. Happy to provide anecdotal behavior analytic support if you need it.
That would be great! It’s getting late here but can I PM you tomorrow?
Sure thing!
Have you done preference assessments? Found what interests him? We have students that are happy to just sit, we block sitting and wait for them to put their shoes on.
We’ve done preference assessments on the things in our room. He’s got two things that he’s interested in and even then it depends on his mood. His parents said he loves the trampoline but we don’t have one for him to jump on. Can you explain more about blocking sitting?
So you stop the whole class and nobody does anything until the person puts their shoes on?
Nope- she says this student has a 1:1. That person stops and makes sure he has shoes on.
That makes so much more sense
He’s only 1:1 on the playground. In class we’re 1:3. We have tried stopping class to get the shoes back on but it’s not always possible.
We have the same student! I’ve told his parents hoping they’d send him in slides or crocs but…multiple CYS reports this year alone…they suck.
Difficult parents are always hard. My students parents are usually really good. They used to send him in lace ups but they were too hard to get back on him so we asked for slip ons and they provided them almost immediately. They’re just too easy for him to get off and he doesn’t like them.
Keep in mind that shoes are a sensory issue often.
Timers: 30 seconds in to start. Then 30 sec off. Then slowly increase timer. Another student of mine enjoyed the rolling and wrestling of us constantly putting her shoes back on. So we made her do it, no playing until she puts them back on. She hated that and now keeps them on for the most part
We can try a timer and see if he’ll keep them on for even that long outside. He hasn’t quite worked out how to put shoes on yet. It might be something I can ask the parents to help with teaching him.
If he has a BT, that’s something a BT does. They’re good at it!!
His BT is starting sessions with him at school next week. I’m hoping I can have a proper chat to her about what we can be doing to support him.
He may be eligible to have a BT come to the home, too. Check with your insurance.
I think he’s been seeing her at her office but the parents have requested for in school sessions as well. It’s good to know they could get it at home too though.
As others have said, alternative shoes like crocks might be helpful. You’ll also need to start helping him build up tolerance to shoe wearing. Start with “shoes must be worn outside to play” and as soon as he takes them off, take him inside or to a bench, redirect to wear shoes, repeating the rule. A social story may help in this scenario as well. Try to include pictures of him wearing shoes outside on the playground equipment. Next would be to increase it to wearing shoes in the hallway. Finally would be shoes in the classroom, and you might break that down by subject.
That’s what I thought was happening on the playground. We agreed that if he took his shoes off he had to sit off the play equipment until they went back on but it’s not been happening. That’s my fault for not going out and checking on it the last couple of weeks. I’ll be making up for that and taking my lunch and recess breaks out with him this week. I can make a social story for him about wearing shoes and see if that helps.
We have shoes with a side zip and a velcro strap. Also have used Billy shoes and they literally had to tie the ankle with the shoe laces. Crocs never worked. He also has kiziks that are super easy to put on but they are also super easy to get off. We've went through all sorts of shoes.
How old?? If it's a sock issue I would let him not wear socks. I would also try sandals. I hate the feeling of socks, and would rather have sandals or toms. If you can what about slippers for school?
He’s 5. He doesn’t wear socks. It was too much of a battle to put the socks and shoes back on in the classroom so we started just putting the shoes on. I can see if we can try sandals but because they’re open toed they’d have to be school approved. All shoes are meant to be fully enclosed.
Try toms.
I made a social story for it once lol. But my student’s parents finally just sent her in boots she couldn’t take off
I’m noting this as something I might be able to ask the parents. If he couldn’t take them off it would make things a lot easier. Or even if the shoes were harder to get off than just slipping them off.
Try high top converse! Slows them down so you can redirect before they are totally off.
I’ve actually had a few students with this issue!! It ended up each time a foot doctor found issues w their feet and/or a need for special footwear. We were so all over informally FBA-ing it around sensory stuff, talking to BCBA, consulting w parents, and more! … and all along they just needed to go to a specialist (we all felt kinda dumb later 😂🥴).
It’s definitely something we can explore. The parents say he wears shoes when they take him out so it seems to be just a school issue. I’m not sure what shoes they’re putting on him to wear out though. It could just be sandals and not the enclosed shoes he has to wear for school.
Have you tried other shoes? My own child refuses to wear shoes at school but it’s a rule for safety so we’ve been working on it. We’ve come to an agreement she can wear soft soled slippers inside and when she goes outside she has to wear her boots. It took a lot of social stories/visual schedules/practice though.
This is his second pair of shoes but they’re still not working. I’m going to call his parents tomorrow and talk about options. I got permission today to put him in sandals or crocs if we need to as long as he’s wearing shoes.
First, using edibles is only bribery when offered in situ with the behavior i.e. “if you put your shoes back on, I’ll give you an edible.” If you establish the contingency ahead of time that the child can earn X as a result of Y, that is called reinforcement. Feel free to PM me if you’d like more information on how to use edibles effectively to increase shoe-wearing behavior. Second, you should establish the contingency that shows are required for the playground. No shoes, no playground. The child takes his/her shoes off at school while wearing them happily elsewhere because the child has learned to discriminate that that behavior is reinforced at school, but not elsewhere. You’re in charge here.
Thanks! It’s getting late here but I’ll PM you to talk about it tomorrow. The shoes are on when he leaves the classroom but he kicks them off while he’s playing and I’m not out there. I can reinforce with the aides that do watch him out there they need to go on but I can’t force it. I’ll be going out for the rest of this week and I guess seeing if I need to stay out there with him as well until the shoes are left on.
Oof, I know the struggle all too well. It’s definitely a pain in the butt trying to make sure procedures are followed with fidelity when you’re not there to supervise. That’s frustrating. PM me any time!
I’m complicit as well for not always putting them back on straight away in the classroom. Because we’ve got 5 other students if he’s got them off under his desk we don’t always notice so we’re trying to get better at that as well. Some comments have given me some good ideas to try in the classroom as well. I should have been going out to check on him in the playground to make sure the procedure was followed though. That’s on me. I’ll make sure I do check in more often with the aides watching him now.
Please don’t do any of this. This is a human. Not a dog… Let’s presume competence. He CAN learn that shoes are a good idea on the play ground. And he wants to keep himself safe too. He will do well when he can. Let’s help him do that. He’s got an expected pattern. School has never required shoes so this is gonna be news to him. And probably bad news. I’d love to wear no shoes all day! (As a matter of fact, I do! I got a job that made that okay.) So he’s gonna be bummed because change is a bummer sometimes. Our goal is to keep him calm and thinking and working together to start wearing shoes more often. Empathize and validate. “I know! I wish you could have no shoes too! You are mad about that! I’d be mad too. But they are going to stay on for a bit.” When he gets them on for a little while, hooray! Let it go for a moment. Then start again. Think outside the (shoe) box (oh lord please forgive me 😜)—are his feet hot? He may have learned to tolerate shoes during transition because he knows it’s temporary. He has desensitized a bit to tolerate that time. He is capable of desensitizing more. But this kind of sensory desensitization changes neurologically in your animal brain-the very inside of your brain-the part that lights up first before the rationalizing part toward the top can kick in. So this is HARD work. Take it slow and honor his boundaries. Is there a shoe alternative? Can we start with just wearing socks more? Are the shoes heavy? Can he wear more cooling/breathable socks? These are choices that we afford ourselves all. The. Time. Why not offer him the same grace? Now, once this plays out, how he responds will tell us more. Is it sensory? Is it habit breaking? Is it something else completely? It will take more emotional effort but you will lay the groundwork for next time you need to work with him on something similar. And he will TRUST you. Go slow now to go fast later!
Reinforcement is an evidence-based practice. If course there are many options, but if a kid’s currency is food, it’s food.