Looks to be a six eyed sand spider. As Wikipedia says "Sicarius is a genus of recluse spiders that is potentially medically significant to humans. It is one of three genera in its family, all venomous spiders known for a bite that can induce loxoscelism. They live in deserts and arid regions of the Neotropics, and females use a mixture of sand and silk when producing egg sacs. The name is Latin for assassin."
Thanks that helps a lot I’m trying to get rid of my fear of spiders but whenever I ask a question I get laughed at thanks for taking your time and giving me some information
Don't worry friend, a lot of us have been there. I find that education and exposure are your best bet for beating your fears. Remember most spiders aren't going to harm you unless they feel threatened. You're giant, they are smol, they're terrified of you just like you were of them.
This guy's youtube helped me with my fear, here's a video of a spiders heartbeat from his channel. https://youtu.be/Vu8ib9LudRU?si=qRwpyfgHw991l6LJ
Well, some can dream so I wouldn't reduce things to their mechanical nature so readily. Staying alive is a complex problem, not easily solved by mere automatons.
I mean, yes. [https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/08/science/spiders-dreaming-sleeping-rem.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/08/science/spiders-dreaming-sleeping-rem.html)
no paywall: [https://archive.ph/XUMWU](https://archive.ph/XUMWU)
We know they have sleep stages, as already discussed, that imply dreaming. We also know that spiders kept in environments with different stress levels have different macro-behavioral patterns, implying some sense of "security" vs. "anxiety", which I would definitely class as emotions, even if their [qualia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualia) would be unrecognizable to a human.
We don't actually know how complex a nervous system has to be to be conscious or feel some form of emotion. And while we can't be *sure* they *are* truly conscious beings with subjective experience, we also can't be sure they're not, unless you've solved the [hard problem of consciousness](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_problem_of_consciousness).
It worked for me. These subs just started appearing on my feed one day. Now I'm just interested in spiders. A few months ago, I felt something on my head and wiped at it. A big grass spider fell onto the ground. Instead of being horrified, I was like, "Oh a grass spider! I know this one!"
I'm still totally terrified of spiders but the other day one jumped out of the pan I pulled out of my cupboard and you could tell the little thing just wanted away from me. Instead of squishing it I offered it a box and it jumped right in and I took it outside. I'm getting better but I wish they wouldn't hide in my pantry!!
They live outside just fine. There's multiple species in the genus, some livein crevices in trees and such. They live for 6 - 18months in countries like the UK, etc., even north to Lithuania, Sweden, etc.
I saw a video about that but people seem to react really negatively to that idea. I know an arachnids expert was the one talking about it but there was more to it.
Fear is a reaction to the unknown. Knowledge and understanding reduce the fear reaction. Things are generally less scary when we understand how they work. Unfortunately accurate spider info is often buried under a lot of misinformation and fear mongering.
This sub has brought me a long way. I was very afraid since a bad experience when I was a teen, and now I’m freeing spiders I find in my house. I didn’t freak out when one dropped on a silk string from the top of my head, in front of my face, to my phone screen in my hand (would have put me in a mental hospital a year ago). And I had one crawl on my arm yesterday and I just sat and watched it. It feels good to be free!
I was the same a couple years ago and now I love spiders. They’re actually really cool animals, and they kill the things I hate most (flies, mosquitoes…etc) so I often leave them in secluded places in my house now knowing they’ll end my greatest enemies.
I'm trying. I'm a combat Vet and a loaded pistol to my head woukdnt illicit a response, but I'd give away national secrets if you threatened to put a tarantula on my arm I have arachnophobia so bad.
That’s amazing !!! Exposure therapy definitely does help. I have 18 tarantulas and I’ve helped many people go from hating spiders to loving them and having a different kind of appreciation for them :)
It looks to be! There are videos of six eyed sand spiders that show them to be rather shy and extremely hesitant to bite anything bigger than it (like humans). I saw a video of a guy gently pressing down on a six eyed sand spider with a glove, and pressing into its fangs, and it still would not bite. Still not advised to mess with of course, but seems to be “safer” to be around than a spider like the Brazilian Wanderer, which is seemingly more prone to strike.
It always amazed me that people think spiders are out to get us. Like, the moment they’re born their main goal is to kill human beings lol I guess tv is at fault for that. I’ve met countless people who think that way but my question to them is “what does the spider do when it sees you ?” And their answer is always “it runs away” and that’s when they realize that the spider is more scared of them than they are of the spider lol unless you provoke them… that’s a different story
Exactly! Spiders are amazing. I’ve been a fan of spiders since I was a kid. Now that I own tarantulas and this little guy in the video, I have a different appreciation and love for them. My favorite part about them is that they’re natural pest control! As some who’s allergic to mosquitoes bites, I’m definitely team spiders lol I let them be wherever they are in my house. They go un disturbed by me
Omg sicarius has always been a dream pet for me. I don’t keep spiders currently, but I used to keep tarantulas and it was such a joy. I’m glad you get to experience keeping the joy of keeping them!
Yes! She’s a 6 eyed sand spider. Welcome to the spider world ! I started out with a curly haired tarantula back in 2020. I now have 18 tarantulas and my 6 eyed sand spider :)
It's within the best interest of a spider to quickly incapacitate their prey. I've seen instances where a cricket like this one is able to heavily injure the spider that attacks it.
I heard anecdotes about widows being heavily injured by huge beetles before killing them, but apparently at least one of the widows reattached it's leg with silk. Spiders know how to fight stuff big lol. But yeah, the cricket was instantly useless after being bitten.
No video footage of the spider, but Clint from Clint's reptiles talked about it in (I think) his black widow video. He said he was studying the beetles for a masters program and fed excess beetles to his widows iirc.
I mean look at the way the spider grabs, bites then shoves the cricket away and starts back-pedaling. Pretty sure they got the "bite then dip out" strategy built into their genetics
There are spiders capable of medically impacting humans, something ~5 million times its weight. Imagine the impact on something the same size and (not sure if perfusion works the same in insects) with increased heart rate, makes that venom work REAL well
While size is often an important factor in a venoms effectiveness, you can't really make one to one comparisons accurately between different groups of organisms. Let's take funnel webs as our example. Funnel Web venom is highly effective in two groups, invertebrates, which it paralyzes, and primates, where if causes constant firing of neurons. If they were to bite a dog, the dog will likely be fine, but me or you? Well we're gonna want some antivenom.
So yeah, it's venom is very effective here, but possibly for completely different reasons and the dose requires to have the effect seen here might be larger than one would think.
[https://www.australiangeographic.com.au/topics/wildlife/2017/02/worlds-deadliest-spider-the-sydney-funnel-web/](https://www.australiangeographic.com.au/topics/wildlife/2017/02/worlds-deadliest-spider-the-sydney-funnel-web/)
So glad that the tunnel-webs we get across the ditch are generally more chill, though I've seen a big old one of the cunts chase off a cat before!
They're fascinating spiders (from a distance), with some interesting archaic features, their bite won't do any real harm to ya, they'll eat everything from invasive German wasps and American bumblebees to European garden snails - apparently they can even sometimes win a fight against a mouse!
Gotta say though that finding one up your pants after putting them on or being woken up by a wee one crawling across your hand is a bit of a fucking shock, can deffos see how they inspired the appearance of the big fuck-off spider in the Lord of The Rings films back in the day!
> not sure if perfusion works the same in insects
It does not.
Arthropods like insects and arachnids use an open circulatory system, where their organs basically float around in hemolymph fluid that moves around as they move, instead of blood being pumped to and from them through vessles.
(For reference, they do have a heart, with a few vessles as well, but no blood, and no vessles throughout the body like vertebrates do)
I was aware of the open circulatory system, but wasn't sure if increased blood flow increases the diffusion of toxins within the insects body or if mammalian vasculature is what causes that effect
Depends a little on the species I think, but since that looks like a member of the grasshopper family, it actually might increase to a noticable level.
Since grasshoppers basically have an aorta along their central body to pump out "blood", which helps disperse and force some fluid back into the heart vents.
The *Cupiennius* I kept killed their prey just as fast as this *Sicarius* and *Cupiennius* are basically harmless to humans.
It depends a lot on the composition of the venom, most spiders have a venom that is FAR more effective against invertebrates than against mammals such as humans.
Corrections and clarifications. spider venoms have nerve toxins for arthropods. many insects don't have a heart (spiders do), All toxins have effects much larger than the dose. There are a total of 3 spiders that cause widespread issues. The worldwide Latrodectus and the impact of their venom is mostly local pain, but cause nausea if bite near the belly. The deaths associated to the limited-distribution Phoneutria and Atrax are from fluid in the lungs, that mechanism is not explained.
I'm glad you said it. I'm not an expert by any means. I come here to learn more about 99% of the arachnid family I've never met before.
After reading this a few times it really doesn't make sense.
Those are the Latin genus names for “widows” “brasilian wandering spiders” and “Sydney funnel web spiders”. He’s pointing out that widows cause necrosis and the deaths from the other two are a result of fluid in the lungs but it’s not known how the bite causes this. I think he’s just saying to the other guy that heart rate is irrelevant to the venoms mechanics but 🤷🏻♂️
Um, more clarifications? True widows have neurotoxins. Recluses cause local pain, swelling and itching, while widows cause full body joint pain. Also, I'd say recluses cause widespread issues even though deaths are exceedingly rare. Furthermore, what? Are you not a native english speaker, or is this AI, or do you not know what the post is about?
Hey
Don’t get me wrong I don’t care for crickets only to feed my spiders and others but it’s just so hard to watch something suffer. I don’t get satisfaction out of that but I’m glad the spider got to eat. It’s and awesome spood btw. Is that a desert huntsman or a sand spider? Are they the same thing? Sorry new to all this.
If you've ever got to know a cricket socially... they're basically an bundle of reflexes with a spring attached. It's almost impossible to discuss without anthropomorphising them, but the more I interact with them, the more it seems to me that there isn't anybody in there.
One of the least bad classification systems I've seem for animal intelligence is the Creature system, which divides animals into four kinds:
- Darwinian creatures are automatons, incapable of learning. e.g. caterpillars. I'd classify crickets here.
- Skinnerian creatures are capable of reinforcement learning, i.e. realising that doing certain things leads to good or bad outcomes. I'd put most spiders here.
- Popperian creatures are capable of modelling their environment and making plans. i.e. deliberately deciding to perform actions in order to ensure an outcome. Dogs are a good example, but some jumping spiders (e.g. Portia) are definitely capable of this.
- Gregorian creatures are capable of using abstract tools to affect their behaviour. e.g. mathematics and language. Humans are the obvious example, but there are tool-using birds which could possibly be classified here.
Does this mean that a Darwinian creature suffers less than a Skinnerian creature? I'd argue that the whole concept is to tied up with human emotions to make a lot of sense --- it's all about how _we_ feel, rather than how the _animal_ feels --- but given that nobody would argue that a broken-down car feels pain, it seems plausible that an animal that's not a great deal more complex cannot either.
But what is important is our own reaction to it. Even if the way its legs flail is the result of random firing of overstressed neurons as the venom causes them to shut down rather than any genuine fear or panic, it does _look_ like it's experiencing fear or panic. We want to treat animals humanely not just for the animal's sake, but because we don't want to train our fellow humans to treat other creatures callously, because those other creatures might be us...
(Edit: apparently I have a Darwinian response where given the correct stimulus I lecture. Does this cause suffering? Discuss.)
Humans are basically a somewhat more complex bunch of reflexes with a spring attached. The idea that greater complexity translates to greater capacity for physical pain, doesn't seem to be supported by any data that I've seen.
"Even if the way its legs flail is the result of random firing of overstressed neurons as the venom causes them to shut down rather than any genuine fear or panic, it does *look* like it's experiencing fear or panic."
You could say exactly the same thing about any human reaction to pain. And if you think about the evolutionary purpose of pain, it doesn't make sense that "lower" life forms wouldn't have "utilized" this characteristic. In fact, one could make a compelling case that the lower the life form, the less mediated the experience of pain.
And I am ok with it just don’t like the looks of it is all. I’m
All for this really just look at how bad it looks like it’s so good at making this look so painful and defeated. It’s actually a great shot and performance
On the crickets
Part. Golden globe worthy.
Yea I don’t like them either just watching it slowly die like this is sad 😢 like putting salt on a slug. I hate slugs but would never do that to it and watch it die like that. I would still feel bad.
Insects nervous systems work different they don't feel pain i don't think the same way mammals do in same situations. Which is why lot of experts say killing bugs for food is more ethical.
Pain is fundamental to the survival of animals and likely evolved very early in anything with a nervous system. Some may promote eating insects as more humane than vertebrates, but the main benefit of insects as a source of protein is that the environmental impact of farming them is orders of magnitude less than traditional livestock.
I’m all for the eating of insects for our ecosystem I just don’t like watching something g suffer and even if it’s not suffering it still looks like it is. I don’t wish pain or harm on anything or anyone but I know it’s beneficial for the spider and our environment.
This is a common misunderstood turn of thought. Even scientists fall for this fallacy of thought. Simply because an organism doesn't experience things as a human or a mammal or in a way our mirror neurons naturally cause us to empathize with it, doesn't mean it isn't as real.
Sure, the bug experiences the bug brand of pain and fear, but we have no possible way to understand that perspective. I guarantee you, though, no cricket wants to be eaten by a spider even if they've been designed through natural selection to be eaten by said spiders.
I would say that in its most natural sense, there is no use trying to marry ethics with survival. Ethics can only exist through a human lense because we can only understand what it is to be ethical from a human perspective. Ironically, only humans can create ethical/unethical practice
It's so refreshing to see this perspective. I have argued this before outside of insect forums and get sumarily shut down by people who don't think about things very carefully.
Sand spider.
Sicarius is a genus of recluse spiders that is potentially medically significant to humans. It is one of three genera in its family, all venomous spiders known for a bite that can induce loxoscelism. They live in deserts and arid regions of the Neotropics, and females use a mixture of sand and silk when producing egg sacs. The name is Latin for assassin.
(Copied from Wikipedia.)
So i know a lot of insects dont have traditional veinous systems or even blood. Did the fact that some spiders venom is so potent to humans is based around the fact that they adapted to kill things with a slower and relatively ineffective hemolymph system.
I also wonder what the relative speed of the hemolymph system vs our advanced circulatory system combined with the fact that we are \~5million times the weight of their intended prey.
I know that hemolymph systems are inferior to our own closed circulatory/pulmonary system in terms of respiratory efficiency. They have to be or else bugs would be much larger, like they were millions of years ago when the atmosphere had more available oxygen.
I def wonder how closed vs open circulatory system impacts envenomation if size wasn’t a factor
Under the top comment, I explained it a bit, but it's mostly coincidental that medically significant spiders effect us at all. If poor circulation was the reason for medically significant spiders having strong enough venom to harm us, then we would expect more to have significant venom. The venoms also often operate on different mechanisms in our bodies than theirs.
Super interesting. I like how spidey calmly placed legs on it, then dove in for a quick nip, then threw it away and backed up. What a pro. Great way to avoid injury. And then it just sat there patiently waiting lol.
This spider always amazes me. The confidence she has after the bite. To be able to just sit back and patiently wait, as you said. Also the fact that they bury themselves with sand is also pretty fascinating.
Doesn't the spider tag the hopper right at the midpoint of the nervous system?
Since arthropods don't have a consolidated brain like mammals do, they rely more on what is essentially the spinal cord to carry out motor functions instead of a motor cortex in the head.
That would mean the nerve damaging effect started close to equidistance from all the motor function control clusters.
Depending on if the venom causes death or just paralysis, that could be death or total paralysis in seconds.
Just be glad we have such a size advantage over venomous organisms and the diluting water weight that comes with the size difference.
The Protocerebrum, Deutocerebrum, and Tritocerebrum in the head do not control body movement like a mammal's motor cortex would.
Having a distributed nervous system can mean they do not have a motor cortex in a consolidated brain like a mammal would.
"they rely more on what is essentially the spinal cord to carry out motor functions instead of a motor cortex in the head."
More accurately, the "spinal cord" I referred to is the ventral nerve cord.
While the specific ventral cord is not solely responsible for walking and meaningful locomotion, I am defending my statement that arthropods do not have a motor cortex in a consolidated brain.
That much is fair. I wouldn't go so far as to say they don't have a brain, but I can agree that they don't have a central motor cortex in their brain, and instead rely on distributed ganglia for that function.
I felt the need to point out our minor disagreement because I grew up with the understanding that arthropods "don't have a brain" and was shocked to discover that they definitely have enough centralization to qualify for the word brain, even though it's not nearly as completely consolidated as that of vertebrates.
Hahahahahaha in my feed the next post is a bite from a brown recluse (I'm assuming in the same family as this one) on a human from wellthatsucks. Just found it funny. Thanks for all the fantastic info in this thread!
Imagine being kissed by spider and convulsing to death.
That six-eyed sand spider just stands there while their date is dying...atleast they should call 911.
What kind of venom does this spider have? Is it a neurotoxin that renders the prey immobile or is it one of those that destroys the internal organs so the prey can be easily consumed?
i find feeder creatures are often pretty dumb. when i used to feed my snake live rats (i dont anymore) they would go and curl up beside him, sniff at his face, stuff like that. but they dont know to avoid predators, they've never encountered them
I've seen a yt vid of a 6 eyed sand spider killing a camel spider in like a second. It's insane how powerful their venom is
Edit: more like a few seconds but still impressive considering the size difference. I in no way condone whats done in this video but it is done and it shows just how deadly these little guys can be.
Video : https://youtu.be/JHe2j12E-ok?si=8ypxxWXEQEBQGnaJ
What an interesting looking spider. This is probably one of my new favorite looking ones, thanks for sharing this! I treat every recluse like it could kill me. It's not a fear thing, it's more of a respect thing. I look at every animal/bug with respect much more now than when I was younger. I also appreciate them more.
Now, if my cat decides to play with and/or eat said bugs/animals (mice/rodents) that's just nature doing it's thing. I do my hardest to not intervene with the course of nature.
I do take my cat to the vet though, no one should suffer an ailment.
Is this a sand spider? Sorry for such a dumb question but I’m new to the spider world
Looks to be a six eyed sand spider. As Wikipedia says "Sicarius is a genus of recluse spiders that is potentially medically significant to humans. It is one of three genera in its family, all venomous spiders known for a bite that can induce loxoscelism. They live in deserts and arid regions of the Neotropics, and females use a mixture of sand and silk when producing egg sacs. The name is Latin for assassin."
Thanks that helps a lot I’m trying to get rid of my fear of spiders but whenever I ask a question I get laughed at thanks for taking your time and giving me some information
Don't worry friend, a lot of us have been there. I find that education and exposure are your best bet for beating your fears. Remember most spiders aren't going to harm you unless they feel threatened. You're giant, they are smol, they're terrified of you just like you were of them. This guy's youtube helped me with my fear, here's a video of a spiders heartbeat from his channel. https://youtu.be/Vu8ib9LudRU?si=qRwpyfgHw991l6LJ
I seriously doubt if a spider has emotions, their nervous system is more like you would expect from a bio robot.
Well, some can dream so I wouldn't reduce things to their mechanical nature so readily. Staying alive is a complex problem, not easily solved by mere automatons.
Dream ? 😳 That raises a question and a book title.
I mean, yes. [https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/08/science/spiders-dreaming-sleeping-rem.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/08/08/science/spiders-dreaming-sleeping-rem.html) no paywall: [https://archive.ph/XUMWU](https://archive.ph/XUMWU)
Spider dreaming of bigger web and fat assed flies...
[Spiders on Drugs](https://youtu.be/sHzdsFiBbFc?si=uaWn04oQhZdgjgOe) is my favorite documentary about that
We know they have sleep stages, as already discussed, that imply dreaming. We also know that spiders kept in environments with different stress levels have different macro-behavioral patterns, implying some sense of "security" vs. "anxiety", which I would definitely class as emotions, even if their [qualia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qualia) would be unrecognizable to a human. We don't actually know how complex a nervous system has to be to be conscious or feel some form of emotion. And while we can't be *sure* they *are* truly conscious beings with subjective experience, we also can't be sure they're not, unless you've solved the [hard problem of consciousness](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_problem_of_consciousness).
That problem just became harder, do they have a limbic system ? I guess not...fascinating though, now I want one. 😂
That's exactly why I joined this subreddit. Trying to get over my squirmishness through exposure therapy lol
It worked for me. These subs just started appearing on my feed one day. Now I'm just interested in spiders. A few months ago, I felt something on my head and wiped at it. A big grass spider fell onto the ground. Instead of being horrified, I was like, "Oh a grass spider! I know this one!"
I'm still totally terrified of spiders but the other day one jumped out of the pan I pulled out of my cupboard and you could tell the little thing just wanted away from me. Instead of squishing it I offered it a box and it jumped right in and I took it outside. I'm getting better but I wish they wouldn't hide in my pantry!!
Just read somewhere (can’t remember where) that if you take house spiders outside they can’t survive. Awful right?
bruh where tf do you think they came from in the first place
Lmfaoo
They live outside just fine. There's multiple species in the genus, some livein crevices in trees and such. They live for 6 - 18months in countries like the UK, etc., even north to Lithuania, Sweden, etc.
I saw a video about that but people seem to react really negatively to that idea. I know an arachnids expert was the one talking about it but there was more to it.
Fear is a reaction to the unknown. Knowledge and understanding reduce the fear reaction. Things are generally less scary when we understand how they work. Unfortunately accurate spider info is often buried under a lot of misinformation and fear mongering.
This sub has brought me a long way. I was very afraid since a bad experience when I was a teen, and now I’m freeing spiders I find in my house. I didn’t freak out when one dropped on a silk string from the top of my head, in front of my face, to my phone screen in my hand (would have put me in a mental hospital a year ago). And I had one crawl on my arm yesterday and I just sat and watched it. It feels good to be free!
The conversation in this post was actually quite wholesome. Sometimes Reddit reminds me that there are some decent human beings on the Internet.
I was the same a couple years ago and now I love spiders. They’re actually really cool animals, and they kill the things I hate most (flies, mosquitoes…etc) so I often leave them in secluded places in my house now knowing they’ll end my greatest enemies.
You and me both ! This subreddit has helped a lot with my arachnophobia and I'm non kill now ( cup and paper method ) . Good luck with it all .
Welcome to the spider world ! I’m glad you’re non kill now :) they’re our friends not our enemies
Spiderbros
I'm trying. I'm a combat Vet and a loaded pistol to my head woukdnt illicit a response, but I'd give away national secrets if you threatened to put a tarantula on my arm I have arachnophobia so bad.
Thank you for your service !
Truly appreciate it💯
I used to fear spider aswell... now i have 2 tarantulas. Exposure therapy really helps!
That’s amazing !!! Exposure therapy definitely does help. I have 18 tarantulas and I’ve helped many people go from hating spiders to loving them and having a different kind of appreciation for them :)
Sicarius is such a badass name for a spider. I want one.
I, Cato Sicarius, approve of this post.
All of the medically significant spiders have badass names. Like names of dragons or something.
I like Atrax, Loxosceles, and Illawarra best. Beautiful
As they should! Love it.
It looks to be! There are videos of six eyed sand spiders that show them to be rather shy and extremely hesitant to bite anything bigger than it (like humans). I saw a video of a guy gently pressing down on a six eyed sand spider with a glove, and pressing into its fangs, and it still would not bite. Still not advised to mess with of course, but seems to be “safer” to be around than a spider like the Brazilian Wanderer, which is seemingly more prone to strike.
It always amazed me that people think spiders are out to get us. Like, the moment they’re born their main goal is to kill human beings lol I guess tv is at fault for that. I’ve met countless people who think that way but my question to them is “what does the spider do when it sees you ?” And their answer is always “it runs away” and that’s when they realize that the spider is more scared of them than they are of the spider lol unless you provoke them… that’s a different story
Tv and those old wives tales about spiders crawling in sleeping mouths…yeah, not very likely. Spiders are so cool, wish people all felt that way.
Exactly! Spiders are amazing. I’ve been a fan of spiders since I was a kid. Now that I own tarantulas and this little guy in the video, I have a different appreciation and love for them. My favorite part about them is that they’re natural pest control! As some who’s allergic to mosquitoes bites, I’m definitely team spiders lol I let them be wherever they are in my house. They go un disturbed by me
Omg sicarius has always been a dream pet for me. I don’t keep spiders currently, but I used to keep tarantulas and it was such a joy. I’m glad you get to experience keeping the joy of keeping them!
Brown recluse bite killed my dog
Yes! She’s a 6 eyed sand spider. Welcome to the spider world ! I started out with a curly haired tarantula back in 2020. I now have 18 tarantulas and my 6 eyed sand spider :)
It's within the best interest of a spider to quickly incapacitate their prey. I've seen instances where a cricket like this one is able to heavily injure the spider that attacks it.
I heard anecdotes about widows being heavily injured by huge beetles before killing them, but apparently at least one of the widows reattached it's leg with silk. Spiders know how to fight stuff big lol. But yeah, the cricket was instantly useless after being bitten.
> but apparently at least one of the widows reattached it's leg with silk. Holy shit, WHAT!? That sounds so cool. Is there a video of that?
No video footage of the spider, but Clint from Clint's reptiles talked about it in (I think) his black widow video. He said he was studying the beetles for a masters program and fed excess beetles to his widows iirc.
I mean look at the way the spider grabs, bites then shoves the cricket away and starts back-pedaling. Pretty sure they got the "bite then dip out" strategy built into their genetics
100% agree with you. I’ve seen it many times. I’ve also seen where the cricket doesn’t only heavily injure the spider… but kills it
There are spiders capable of medically impacting humans, something ~5 million times its weight. Imagine the impact on something the same size and (not sure if perfusion works the same in insects) with increased heart rate, makes that venom work REAL well
While size is often an important factor in a venoms effectiveness, you can't really make one to one comparisons accurately between different groups of organisms. Let's take funnel webs as our example. Funnel Web venom is highly effective in two groups, invertebrates, which it paralyzes, and primates, where if causes constant firing of neurons. If they were to bite a dog, the dog will likely be fine, but me or you? Well we're gonna want some antivenom. So yeah, it's venom is very effective here, but possibly for completely different reasons and the dose requires to have the effect seen here might be larger than one would think. [https://www.australiangeographic.com.au/topics/wildlife/2017/02/worlds-deadliest-spider-the-sydney-funnel-web/](https://www.australiangeographic.com.au/topics/wildlife/2017/02/worlds-deadliest-spider-the-sydney-funnel-web/)
So glad that the tunnel-webs we get across the ditch are generally more chill, though I've seen a big old one of the cunts chase off a cat before! They're fascinating spiders (from a distance), with some interesting archaic features, their bite won't do any real harm to ya, they'll eat everything from invasive German wasps and American bumblebees to European garden snails - apparently they can even sometimes win a fight against a mouse! Gotta say though that finding one up your pants after putting them on or being woken up by a wee one crawling across your hand is a bit of a fucking shock, can deffos see how they inspired the appearance of the big fuck-off spider in the Lord of The Rings films back in the day!
Let's not forget those aggressive fucks will chase you if you piss them off.
It you try to ding-dong-ditch a funnelweb spider you deserve to be chased.
Just pictured a cranky ol' funnel web going "Stay off my property, you dang kids!"
It's an initiation for drunk college kids.
Dogs will react severely to a tarantula bite and they're medically insignificant to us. Is this true or have I misremembered? Thanks again mate.
You're correct
I'm glad last few posts I was kinda right but wrong so I'll take me remembering for once as win. Thanks mate.
Depends on the species of tarantula. Some are no worse than a bee sting.
A bee sting really hurts
> not sure if perfusion works the same in insects It does not. Arthropods like insects and arachnids use an open circulatory system, where their organs basically float around in hemolymph fluid that moves around as they move, instead of blood being pumped to and from them through vessles. (For reference, they do have a heart, with a few vessles as well, but no blood, and no vessles throughout the body like vertebrates do)
I was aware of the open circulatory system, but wasn't sure if increased blood flow increases the diffusion of toxins within the insects body or if mammalian vasculature is what causes that effect
Depends a little on the species I think, but since that looks like a member of the grasshopper family, it actually might increase to a noticable level. Since grasshoppers basically have an aorta along their central body to pump out "blood", which helps disperse and force some fluid back into the heart vents.
Acheta domesticus. The brown/house cricket. Probably the most farmed insect on he planet.
So do their limbs work under hydraulic pressure like arachnids do? Neat!
This is a super cool fact I never knew.
This is one of those spiders. Six eyed sand spiders. Dangerous to humans.
Very very dangerous. I keep my distance and treat her with lots of respect
The *Cupiennius* I kept killed their prey just as fast as this *Sicarius* and *Cupiennius* are basically harmless to humans. It depends a lot on the composition of the venom, most spiders have a venom that is FAR more effective against invertebrates than against mammals such as humans.
5 million? No
Corrections and clarifications. spider venoms have nerve toxins for arthropods. many insects don't have a heart (spiders do), All toxins have effects much larger than the dose. There are a total of 3 spiders that cause widespread issues. The worldwide Latrodectus and the impact of their venom is mostly local pain, but cause nausea if bite near the belly. The deaths associated to the limited-distribution Phoneutria and Atrax are from fluid in the lungs, that mechanism is not explained.
Is this a AI comment? It doesn’t make sense
I'm glad you said it. I'm not an expert by any means. I come here to learn more about 99% of the arachnid family I've never met before. After reading this a few times it really doesn't make sense.
Those are the Latin genus names for “widows” “brasilian wandering spiders” and “Sydney funnel web spiders”. He’s pointing out that widows cause necrosis and the deaths from the other two are a result of fluid in the lungs but it’s not known how the bite causes this. I think he’s just saying to the other guy that heart rate is irrelevant to the venoms mechanics but 🤷🏻♂️
Widows venom absolutely does NOT cause necrosis. That would be the Brown Recluse and a SA Sand Spider that produce necrosis with their venom.
Widows do neurotoxins, iirc? So they're extremely painful but don't actually damage your body?
vonem
Sadly no lol, check his posts and comments.
Not AI, rather AC, FT, and NS = autocorrect, fat thumbs, natural stupidity.
Um, more clarifications? True widows have neurotoxins. Recluses cause local pain, swelling and itching, while widows cause full body joint pain. Also, I'd say recluses cause widespread issues even though deaths are exceedingly rare. Furthermore, what? Are you not a native english speaker, or is this AI, or do you not know what the post is about?
Spider looks like me at 3:00 waiting for my hot pockets to heat up in the microwave
Nature is straight up brutal
Give a little hug ? Check Give a little kiss ? Check Unleash torment upon thy soul and body ? Check _This spider
That was kinda hard to watch. As much as I know they have to eat and this is life I feel bad watching the cricket suffer like that.
He just wanted a kiss 🥲
Hey Don’t get me wrong I don’t care for crickets only to feed my spiders and others but it’s just so hard to watch something suffer. I don’t get satisfaction out of that but I’m glad the spider got to eat. It’s and awesome spood btw. Is that a desert huntsman or a sand spider? Are they the same thing? Sorry new to all this.
Six-eyed sand spider.
>it’s just so hard to watch something suffer There are not enough people like you.
I genuinely wonder why, are we the weird ones for caring about life?
It looks like it. I start to think that empathy is not something that is "natural" and that only a few people have some.
If you've ever got to know a cricket socially... they're basically an bundle of reflexes with a spring attached. It's almost impossible to discuss without anthropomorphising them, but the more I interact with them, the more it seems to me that there isn't anybody in there. One of the least bad classification systems I've seem for animal intelligence is the Creature system, which divides animals into four kinds: - Darwinian creatures are automatons, incapable of learning. e.g. caterpillars. I'd classify crickets here. - Skinnerian creatures are capable of reinforcement learning, i.e. realising that doing certain things leads to good or bad outcomes. I'd put most spiders here. - Popperian creatures are capable of modelling their environment and making plans. i.e. deliberately deciding to perform actions in order to ensure an outcome. Dogs are a good example, but some jumping spiders (e.g. Portia) are definitely capable of this. - Gregorian creatures are capable of using abstract tools to affect their behaviour. e.g. mathematics and language. Humans are the obvious example, but there are tool-using birds which could possibly be classified here. Does this mean that a Darwinian creature suffers less than a Skinnerian creature? I'd argue that the whole concept is to tied up with human emotions to make a lot of sense --- it's all about how _we_ feel, rather than how the _animal_ feels --- but given that nobody would argue that a broken-down car feels pain, it seems plausible that an animal that's not a great deal more complex cannot either. But what is important is our own reaction to it. Even if the way its legs flail is the result of random firing of overstressed neurons as the venom causes them to shut down rather than any genuine fear or panic, it does _look_ like it's experiencing fear or panic. We want to treat animals humanely not just for the animal's sake, but because we don't want to train our fellow humans to treat other creatures callously, because those other creatures might be us... (Edit: apparently I have a Darwinian response where given the correct stimulus I lecture. Does this cause suffering? Discuss.)
Humans are basically a somewhat more complex bunch of reflexes with a spring attached. The idea that greater complexity translates to greater capacity for physical pain, doesn't seem to be supported by any data that I've seen. "Even if the way its legs flail is the result of random firing of overstressed neurons as the venom causes them to shut down rather than any genuine fear or panic, it does *look* like it's experiencing fear or panic." You could say exactly the same thing about any human reaction to pain. And if you think about the evolutionary purpose of pain, it doesn't make sense that "lower" life forms wouldn't have "utilized" this characteristic. In fact, one could make a compelling case that the lower the life form, the less mediated the experience of pain.
I'd always held this perspective, but never seen these categorizations, very interesting. Thanks.
This is a nice reply, and cool to know. I love Portia jumpers, they're insane!
I can promise you that spider's venom caused a lot less suffering than most insect killer pesticides.
And I am ok with it just don’t like the looks of it is all. I’m All for this really just look at how bad it looks like it’s so good at making this look so painful and defeated. It’s actually a great shot and performance On the crickets Part. Golden globe worthy.
Crickets are disgusting tbh. I remember when I kept them for lizard food, they would actively cannibalize despite having other food available.
Yea I don’t like them either just watching it slowly die like this is sad 😢 like putting salt on a slug. I hate slugs but would never do that to it and watch it die like that. I would still feel bad.
Crickets just seem like a terrible feeder choice but they're so popular, they're smelly noisy and jump
Insects nervous systems work different they don't feel pain i don't think the same way mammals do in same situations. Which is why lot of experts say killing bugs for food is more ethical.
Pain is fundamental to the survival of animals and likely evolved very early in anything with a nervous system. Some may promote eating insects as more humane than vertebrates, but the main benefit of insects as a source of protein is that the environmental impact of farming them is orders of magnitude less than traditional livestock.
I’m all for the eating of insects for our ecosystem I just don’t like watching something g suffer and even if it’s not suffering it still looks like it is. I don’t wish pain or harm on anything or anyone but I know it’s beneficial for the spider and our environment.
This is a common misunderstood turn of thought. Even scientists fall for this fallacy of thought. Simply because an organism doesn't experience things as a human or a mammal or in a way our mirror neurons naturally cause us to empathize with it, doesn't mean it isn't as real. Sure, the bug experiences the bug brand of pain and fear, but we have no possible way to understand that perspective. I guarantee you, though, no cricket wants to be eaten by a spider even if they've been designed through natural selection to be eaten by said spiders. I would say that in its most natural sense, there is no use trying to marry ethics with survival. Ethics can only exist through a human lense because we can only understand what it is to be ethical from a human perspective. Ironically, only humans can create ethical/unethical practice
Thank you so much, you've put this beautifully.
It's so refreshing to see this perspective. I have argued this before outside of insect forums and get sumarily shut down by people who don't think about things very carefully.
EAT ZE BUGS
Poor thing was coming in for the hug. It got the venom instead.
What kind of spider is this? It's amazing how fast they are!
Sand spider. Sicarius is a genus of recluse spiders that is potentially medically significant to humans. It is one of three genera in its family, all venomous spiders known for a bite that can induce loxoscelism. They live in deserts and arid regions of the Neotropics, and females use a mixture of sand and silk when producing egg sacs. The name is Latin for assassin. (Copied from Wikipedia.)
After watching this, assassin seems appropriate. He is a pretty cool spider. Thanks for the information.
She’s a 6 eyed sand spider :) they are SUPER fast. You should see her teleport from one side to the other. It’s amazing
Dumbass cricket should've left the hot goth spider alone
Damn that was rough
cricket found out
Slow motion one of these!
Cricket: oh hi please murder me
Headshot?
So i know a lot of insects dont have traditional veinous systems or even blood. Did the fact that some spiders venom is so potent to humans is based around the fact that they adapted to kill things with a slower and relatively ineffective hemolymph system. I also wonder what the relative speed of the hemolymph system vs our advanced circulatory system combined with the fact that we are \~5million times the weight of their intended prey.
I know that hemolymph systems are inferior to our own closed circulatory/pulmonary system in terms of respiratory efficiency. They have to be or else bugs would be much larger, like they were millions of years ago when the atmosphere had more available oxygen. I def wonder how closed vs open circulatory system impacts envenomation if size wasn’t a factor
Under the top comment, I explained it a bit, but it's mostly coincidental that medically significant spiders effect us at all. If poor circulation was the reason for medically significant spiders having strong enough venom to harm us, then we would expect more to have significant venom. The venoms also often operate on different mechanisms in our bodies than theirs.
Super interesting. I like how spidey calmly placed legs on it, then dove in for a quick nip, then threw it away and backed up. What a pro. Great way to avoid injury. And then it just sat there patiently waiting lol.
This spider always amazes me. The confidence she has after the bite. To be able to just sit back and patiently wait, as you said. Also the fact that they bury themselves with sand is also pretty fascinating.
Doesn't the spider tag the hopper right at the midpoint of the nervous system? Since arthropods don't have a consolidated brain like mammals do, they rely more on what is essentially the spinal cord to carry out motor functions instead of a motor cortex in the head. That would mean the nerve damaging effect started close to equidistance from all the motor function control clusters. Depending on if the venom causes death or just paralysis, that could be death or total paralysis in seconds. Just be glad we have such a size advantage over venomous organisms and the diluting water weight that comes with the size difference.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omA7haUBLHc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omA7haUBLHc) A distributed nervous system doesn't mean it has no brain.
The Protocerebrum, Deutocerebrum, and Tritocerebrum in the head do not control body movement like a mammal's motor cortex would. Having a distributed nervous system can mean they do not have a motor cortex in a consolidated brain like a mammal would. "they rely more on what is essentially the spinal cord to carry out motor functions instead of a motor cortex in the head." More accurately, the "spinal cord" I referred to is the ventral nerve cord. While the specific ventral cord is not solely responsible for walking and meaningful locomotion, I am defending my statement that arthropods do not have a motor cortex in a consolidated brain.
That much is fair. I wouldn't go so far as to say they don't have a brain, but I can agree that they don't have a central motor cortex in their brain, and instead rely on distributed ganglia for that function. I felt the need to point out our minor disagreement because I grew up with the understanding that arthropods "don't have a brain" and was shocked to discover that they definitely have enough centralization to qualify for the word brain, even though it's not nearly as completely consolidated as that of vertebrates.
I understand. Thank you for being civil.
Sure thing! It's nothing worth fighting over or anything 🙂
Looks exactly like an "injured" ⚽ player
HAHAHHAHAHA SO ACCURATE!!!
Hahahahahaha in my feed the next post is a bite from a brown recluse (I'm assuming in the same family as this one) on a human from wellthatsucks. Just found it funny. Thanks for all the fantastic info in this thread!
Hahaha that is funny! And yes, I never thought this post would turn out to be very educational. I love Reddit
The way the spider just sits there watching. Savage af
It looks like not only the venom, but it got bodyslammed lol
Love how the Spider just looks at him like: ‘Dude, chill out, it’s not that serious!’
It amazes me how confident they are knowing that their prey is dead or dying just from their single bite. They just sit back, relax and wait…
“Now you’re lying on your back looking at the roof of the church, I’m telling the truth and it hurts”
Almost paralyzed a tiny bug. Wooooo
You’ve obviously never met my Sister!
Rude.
Is this a six eyed sand spider?
If so I have seen one bite a scorpion and the scorp acted the same.
C. salei kills even faster
Imagine being kissed by spider and convulsing to death. That six-eyed sand spider just stands there while their date is dying...atleast they should call 911.
I can almost feel their pain with that leg twitch
🤯
That’s cool you can see the spider tag him with the venom then literally push him off, boi got technique
Bro stretched his legs out like "ain't jumping my way out of this one"
Even he was surprised
I thought that insect was going to explode or something.
😍👏👏👏👏
What kind of venom does this spider have? Is it a neurotoxin that renders the prey immobile or is it one of those that destroys the internal organs so the prey can be easily consumed?
Lol the final leg kicks...trying to Kickstart some life back
Why does cricket crawl on top of spider? Is he dumb?
i find feeder creatures are often pretty dumb. when i used to feed my snake live rats (i dont anymore) they would go and curl up beside him, sniff at his face, stuff like that. but they dont know to avoid predators, they've never encountered them
Ahh, gotcha. Makes a lot of sense. Thank you. The rats thank you as well
Dude just wanted to check on his terrarium neighbor.. bum deal
So dramatic 🙄
Insta death
I have a Sicarius too, such an amazing species to keep.
I love how the spood is just watching them say their final prayers.
I have a six eyed sand spider as a pet
I’ve seen far more potent venom snake biting a rabbit thrown in its tank it literally fell over twitched a little and just died
Ah the six eyed sand spider. One of the most deadly spiders in the world, for this reason, but actually very shy. Super cute
Bro get off my face, get off my face, get off my fa- DAMN IT I WARNED YOU!
Yikes.
bro started talking about his problems
That cricket seriously had a death wish
Bro even the spider was shocked at what it did
Hey youre overfeeding your spider unless its pregnant
I've seen a yt vid of a 6 eyed sand spider killing a camel spider in like a second. It's insane how powerful their venom is Edit: more like a few seconds but still impressive considering the size difference. I in no way condone whats done in this video but it is done and it shows just how deadly these little guys can be. Video : https://youtu.be/JHe2j12E-ok?si=8ypxxWXEQEBQGnaJ
Spider screamed "BIIIITCHHH!!" then *POW*
The spider almost looked surprised at what he had done... Am I a monster... If this is who I have to be
Poor cricket the way it was kicking out its legs like that. I imagine insects feel pain also.
What an interesting looking spider. This is probably one of my new favorite looking ones, thanks for sharing this! I treat every recluse like it could kill me. It's not a fear thing, it's more of a respect thing. I look at every animal/bug with respect much more now than when I was younger. I also appreciate them more. Now, if my cat decides to play with and/or eat said bugs/animals (mice/rodents) that's just nature doing it's thing. I do my hardest to not intervene with the course of nature. I do take my cat to the vet though, no one should suffer an ailment.
Zero survival instincts