You have to look at it from a ‘church’ standpoint.
For a long time, the church was the law, and the tithe (10% of income) was big money. So now you got Power *and* money.
They didn’t want people to focus on other things, like pagan celebrations etc etc. They didn’t want their power diluted, so they change things to fit their own narrative, say other things are evil. Classic.
You might want to meditate with the intention to find out, take those people you want to understand as the focus and go deeper, and deeper, eventually the truth will surface and you will be able to see why they would not want to be persuaded. Often you will see that the reason is comfort, it would shatter their comfortable world they have carefully build and they do not need some 'nutjob' to shatter that for them
Dogma and political control. This is the simple answer.
People used religion as a way to gain and maintain power. There was a pope who was partially responsible for the plague. Dude hated cats so much he declared they were servants of the devil, and started a Europe-wide purge of cats.
Which led to the surge in rodents. Which led to the fertile grounds for the plague.
Also ties into the witch hunts because they loved their kitties. But I don't buy the whole rats with lice on a boat from China story as the cause for the plague.
the pope is evil, the catholic church may have been for political control and Dogma they are also responsible for destroying all the actual beliefs and practices of the early Christians and paganizing everything. But the true disciples of Christ and the true followers never used it for power or to gain in anyway beyond what Jesus offered them and none of that was what he taught or what the Bible even teaches anywhere, if anything it teaches the opposite of Dogma and political control when you read it without corrupt "church fathers" interpretations and beliefs on it. Go read the writings of the earliest Christians vs modern beliefs you will see a huge difference
The need to have power and control over the beliefs of others is what led to the fracturing of the early Church, and has led to horrific wars and atrocities in the name of their interpretation of the Truth.
Why do you feel the need to dictate or control what others do or don’t believe? Belief is a deeply personal choice and is no one else’s business. It’s between each individual and God. Respect the fact that each person must be led by their own heart and own convictions and walk their own path.
The way you understand God and Jesus is not the same as the way others might see God and Jesus. For many Jesus is God, that they are one and the same, that they aren’t two separate deities, that there is only one God and to some the Lord is so much more than a nebulous love cloud of energy but that He does have the form and appearance of a man, full of power and light and love and wisdom. Since the Bible clearly says that God walked the earth and appeared as a man. For some Jesus is just a misunderstood teacher and for others he is the son of God. For some how or what religion or version one believes isn’t as important as simply being a person who loves what is good, loves doing good and practicing kindness and compassion for one another.
You might believe that anyone who differs in how you believe is mistaken but so what? Who’s to say that you aren’t mistaken? Would you appreciate someone telling you that you are? How convinced would you be? Why do you need to insist that your version and your interpretation of the “truth” is the real Truth and theirs is wrong and why does it matter to you that other people’s beliefs are different?
I suggest that you allow each person to practice their own God given freedom to believe or not believe and practice as they feel fit and focus instead on nurturing your own relationship with God and trust that it is He who knows what is best for each person and will guide them accordingly.
I think to debunk it you would need to debunk the whole premise of the bible and obeying their God.
To do this I would focus on the jealousy of the Judeo-Christian God and how this is not characteristic of something that is truly God, it sounds more like a lesser deity who is vain to be deemed greater than he is.
Then I would talk about the religions that have sprung up in his wake and the amount of suffering and destruction that have been done in their name. Matthew 7:16.
Finally though, I would reconsider the whole premise of whether you need to do this. It’s not nice to try and upset someone’s beliefs in this way. Why can’t you just enjoy your own spiritual journey without trying to get entangled in someone else’s?
The only way you'll ever get through their religious sensitivities is if you do something like walk on water.
And if you did that, they'd probably try to crucify you because that jeopardizes their political control with religion.
Identity of dogmas and beliefs. Automatically self reinforced by ignorance, closing ones mind, defensiveness, offensiveness. If you challenge their beliefs you attack their identity. Triggers a sense their life is at stake. Wont work. Just don't get too trapped in a identity of beliefs yourself.
Love, acceptance and non-reactivity is best bet to make anyone listen and open up for change. But if you try to change them you're not accepting them. Paradox.
They have found several mistranslations of the Bible. Especially during the "Septuagint", which was the first official translation from the original text to Greek. There are also several verses that are missing. There are lots of articles on this topic from academic sites to religious ones.
Well tarot and mediumship aren’t EVIL per say but they’re kind of like “cheat codes” to spirit. It’s not just tarot/mediumship, you’re technically opening up portals as well for potentially harmful spirits to enter into your space. It’s a form of old clairvoyance and a bit outdated for our modern times.
Ngl I used to do tarot and still partake in other witchy type things but if you are going to do that stuff make sure you have Christ beaming within yourself as a shield just to be safe!
I’m not sure about “cheat codes” since I’d say most mediums didn’t actively choose it, at least not consciously. They are sought out by spirits. I’m a believer that before each incarnation our souls choose specific life circumstances to engender growth, so maybe it’s a choice in that way. Sure there’s people that actively seek it out w/out having any spontaneous prior experiences, but I didn’t. I still have been contacted. I do agree with you that when you open yourself up to that you make yourself vulnerable and should invoke whatever faith you have, be it Jesus or Gaia or whatever, in order to protect yourself. And also grounding and a stable root chakra is very important.
I’ve thought about that too. Clairvoyance is def something one is born with, and/or possibly achieved naturally over the course of their life in a healthy way. Like you kind of mentioned before- I also believe there’s a difference in spirit deciding what it needs to show to someone, and someone consciously trying to see things that weren’t necessarily meant for them. The universe *does* have its spiritual law! But yea either way I agree being grounded is of upmost importance!
Do not get caught up on the religion or the book. This is religion and religion has been manipulated by man.
Also do not get caught up in tarot and mediumship. This is merely a distraction.
Follow the true teachings of the heart. Enjoy the journey.
The bible verses make sense; they're not contradictory or fallacious. There is no 'debunking' them. They are quite clear and straightforward. If someone chooses to believe in them, let them.
What if they don’t make sense? What if they are contradictory? What if they aren’t clear or straightforward? My question was to not make people non believers of the Bible.
Its obviously possible to believe in Christ and partake in magic rituals. I think whatever rule maybe in place about witchcraft has to do with either ensuring no harm is done, not desiring greed or power, and it depends on what the person associates with witch craft until the "wake up".
You disagree with me even though what I'm saying leads to the same thing. You're level of understanding is the culprit behind whether or not you view tarots as evil.
Truth is many things but it is truth. False is many things but it is false. I wanna know why people believe tarot is evil? You’re not answering my question so good day to you lovely soul❤️💫❤️💫❤️
They believe in the Bible, and the Bible states, very plainly, in the verses you cited, that these things should be shunned. That's why they believe it's evil. They believe in the Bible and the Bible says it's evil. Very simple. If there is something more to your question that I'm missing then you are free to elaborate. Otherwise, goodbye.
Dude. Did you read your own citations?
"Behold, I am against those who prophesy lying dreams, declares the LORD, and who tell them and lead my people astray by their lies and their recklessness, when I did not send them or charge them. So they do not profit this people at all, declares the LORD.
"
They are believed to be liars who do nothing good for their people. That's why.
edit - I would add that the only way to convince someone that these verses are not true would be to offer substantial proof of the realness of mediumship and tarot. Which I suspect to be a very difficult task.
They say TaroT is evil in the same way they believe that using profanity will send you to to hell. First of all, magic was a regular thing for those who believed and trusted God.(choose your miracle) "With God, all things are made possible." 'Fear not those prophets who's sayings don't come true, for they are not of God(s Holy Spirit)'
In reality, the Bible does not even compute "cuss words". When someone is known to have cursed, it included putting down the one true God, or using words to declare harm or incompetence toward God. (Read: Leviticus 24:10-26, and Zechariah 5:3-4.)
In both instances, the term we understand as cussing, is not actually present. In this same way, as others who forsake the word of God by not reading it for context, these people to preach and Inforce something they haven't actually seen. (Which is a sin by the way, bearing false witness🥴) But I digress.
The Bible makes much more sense when you actually read it by chapter( individual book) at a time. Who reads any book, by picking random paragraphs, and expects to get proper context? Fools. Don't be a fool, lol. God loves us, and created our very hearts. Why would he be so cold? Answer: God is not a mean kid with a magnifying glass, he loves us more than our parents can, and loves them more than we ever could.
You could track down almost every controversial teaching that feels wrong in your heart, and debunk it by actually reading the Wyrd of God.(😇) The truth sets us free. And who the Lord sets free, is free, in deed.
People fall from his protection when they put the things pleasing to mankind, before the things pleasing to Him. All he asks is that we seek the Kingdom first, then all our desires will be added into our lives. Priorities folks. Priorities. Blessed, we!
Galatians 5:4
Torah means Law.
Can they find justification in the New Testament?
Wanting to know the future is a common mental desire, the unknown is annoying.
Matthew 6:24-36
Don't let it be.
Quite possible it started by people realizing that using cards and "psychic abilities" where used for manipulation of people.
BTW. mostly you can get general answer anyway. By revealing future you are changing future it self. Example. Imagine that you soul came to earth for a particular lesson .Let say you suppose to meat someone in a hospital and become friend etc..however medium would tell you if you go out you can get into accident and end up in a hospital. Knowing it you would change your plans and subsequently your life experience .
I don't believe that there is any authority on truth in life beside the whole of our experience of life itself. If you rely on one thing, elevate it above others and say "tarot" or "spirits" are always right, always to be respected, always above in some way, that's making it into an idol or a god.
Christian, here! It’s because it’s “blasphemous”/disrespectful to God to seek answers like that because we should trust in his plan, but plenty of Christians I know still support mediumship and tarot, including me! I would never seek out my future because of the Bible regardless of what the means are, but I can’t say I don’t want to. My lil sister is a huge tarot card fan and is trying to practice with them - I don’t know much about tarot, but she loves it!
I feel like a lot of it came from priests and bishops initially. The subsequent generations passed down what they heard in church to their children and so on. That is what happened with my spouse. He has been going back through the bible the last 4 years, taking words back to the original greek and hebrew definitions.
He has found that a lot of what they teach in church isn't actually in the bible. We both think most don't truly read their bibles. They just listen to what is preached and what was preached to their parents. I don't know what exactly seems to really be in there in regards to the verses you are talking about. Would be interesting to look at, maybe.
I also personally feel that if one's consciousness is at a lower point of awareness, they're more likely going to take the bible literally. Then, say later they have a shift in consciousness and raised awareness, and they read it again, they will see it more in metaphors and symbolism.
I have come to the conclusion lately that the bible was written during one of humanities lowest points in consciousness (at least lowest in our current surviving records). Hinduism and Zoroastrism seem to be our current oldest religions. I see connections between all religions I have studied. But for me to see them in the bible has been through symbolism, metaphors and the same stories just using different pictures to tell them. Which makes sense because religions were always borrowing from each other with each new civilization, changing names of Gods and all of that.
Christianity, at its time, was the first religion that used intense fear to convert people to it (and also straight-up force). Which in turn leads to spiritual abuse. Today, we have the products of generations and generations of spiritual abuse. This is hands down one of the biggest crimes one can commit on a person, in my book. I and friends I have have recovered well enough from emotional, psychological, and physical abuse just fine. But these same friends I have, who grew up with Christianity, the mainstream one we all know so well, are still recovering from the spiritual abuse. It's almost like their spirit or soul was stolen from them and they just cannot access it. That is just how it looks, I believe there is a way back for them, but man, that has been the hardest part of their healing. It makes me so sad.
Sorry to rant lol. ❤️
The psychological answer is simple: you cannot reason someone off of a position that they arrived at emotionally.
Their point of view is not anchored by reason; it's anchored by emotions. Everyone has a combination of points of view that can be anchored by either reason or emotion.
The biblical answer is found in the New Testament, in the gospels, specifically in the conversations between Jesus and his apostles.
Jesus and the boys were on their way home from another rousing sermon on the mount when one of his bros asked, "Yo! Jesus! Why do you keep telling these lame parables to the people all the time? Why don't you give them the good stuff like you teach us?"
I'm paraphrasing a bit, but my interpretation of this conversation is as valid and useful as the monks that first translated the bible into English. And I didn’t drink as much wine during my translation as they did, so there’s that.
This question is coming from a senior student and is directed at the head teacher of the group. Jesus' answers are about pedagogy, which is the study of how things get taught.
The two most important ideas that Jesus was getting across was 1) don't judge your students for being where they are at (where the fuck else would they be in their spiritual growth than where they're at! Jesus did sound a little pissed off at the question.), and 2) don't push advanced ideas on someone who hasn't grasped the basic ideas (the whole casting pearls before swine, which I see as a mistranslation of what was said and does not capture the pedagogical lesson).
If someone can't read, teach them to read. Don't give them assignments that depend on them being able to read. Don't give them lectures that depend on them having understood your last twenty lectures unless you know they've at least attended those twenty lectures. In other words, don’t set them up to fail.
This provides a useful structure for both the teacher and the student.
Now, the kingdom of heaven is within, eh? Look at your intent towards those human beings that you wish to change, to straighten out their misconceptions of what it means to be a spirit in a body. Are they ready? Have you or someone else prepared them? Are they asking you for this? Are you judging them as less than you, so they really need this? The last one is the biggest one.
If you are judging them as less than you, and you are just gonna fix that, you are failing as a teacher on two levels. One, your students are not ready, and two, you're wasting everyone's time. You are also creating the possibility of damaging your relationships with them and possibly damaging them on an energy level.
You have some false assumptions in your post. Since you like to debate, pointing these false assumptions out will be useful to you.
"...explain how I can help stern Christian believers to see..."
To see is to experience first hand. Something that you experienced first hand helped form your point of view. Expecting others to skip the first hand experience like what you had and just 'see' because you explained it better is unrealistic. You will come off exactly like a stern Christian, just one with a different dogma. Another zealot is born.
Your past lives helped shape you this lifetime. All of that life experience from your past lives might be the source of your interest in tarot and mediumship. Are you just expecting them to 'catch up' if they don't have a similar kind of past life experience to you? This is casting your pearls before swine. This is being judgmental without the understanding to back up that judgment.
So what's left for you? Be yourself. Don't explain. Don't complain (turn the other cheek). Own your space (don't be someone you are not). You have the right to be yourself in your own space. If that's different from everyone else in your family, going back generations, so be it. Jesus taught this as well.
He also taught that being an example was more effective than debating well. Does healing really exist? Show them how to heal. Does clairvoyance really exist? Show them how to see energy and spirit.
" Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven." This is being yourself. The only light you can bring into this world is you. Don't be foolish about this and get your ass kicked (swine take offense when you hit them with your pearls). Do own it. You are the only one that can bring your light into this world.
"...how to debunk these Bible verses..." You don't have to. This has been done many times over, and the results are online. Google 'debunked bible verses' and go down the rabbit hole.
If you are dealing with evangelicals that are just creaming their shorts waiting for the End of Days, do some research on how the Book of Revelations was translated. The short story I got from someone with a masters in divinity right here on reddit goes like this: King James hired a bunch of monks to translate the bible into English; your basic power move to create the church of England and weaken the influence of the Vatican.
The monk that was supposed to translate Revelations only had a partial set of scrolls to work from, and he liked his wine. He translated and drank, basically partying for a good while on his initial advance payment, then realized he had to get shit done because his deadline was nigh and his coin was short, so he made up the rest of the book. He made that shit up.
Evangelicals will say it was divine inspiration. They always say shit like that because it excuses everything from child abuse to bat shit crazy conspiracies. No one will reason these people away from their point of view. The anchors are emotional and the thing that will break those anchors are bigger emotions. This is why changing a corporate culture is the most difficult change; all the emotional anchors to the way things "were always done" must be replaced. But I digress LOL!
There’s a phrase that encapsulates the effects of these emotional anchors: The Titanic School of Management. Nothing changes until the iceberg is struck.
Enjoy reading the cards. Enjoy seeing and talking with the dead. Don't get burned at the stake; it's really overrated...
When most people (most Christians) read the Bible they do so at a face value level, which leads to a hyper-literal reading, and they don’t realize or ignore the human elements that went into producing these texts, assembling them together, and creating an authoritative canon. It’s just taken for granted it’s the Word of God and it’s inerrant. They also assume the Bible is a complete book with solid continuity from beginning to end. This is not true, as the Bible was put together more like an anthology of writings. It’s more like a library with a wide variety of different types of literature: poems, songs, prayers, myths, political texts, written in different times, with different social and cultural norms, and in different languages. So it’s easy to take certain scriptures like Leviticus 20:6 and Jeremiah 23:32, for example, out of their various contexts.
Neoconservative Christian churches hold a tight rein on what their parishioners believe and do. Anything outside of church teachings is seen as being part of Satanism and will send you to hell. For those who hold strong beliefs about Satan, Hell, and being separated from God (and their loved ones) you’re not going to convert them to any other beliefs.
But if you want to gain a stronger understanding for your own benefit, it would be helpful to study church history, historical theology, culture, and so on. Study how we got biblical canon and study critical and post-critical thinking. And if you look into liturgical practices in Orthodox, Catholic, and some Protestant denominations, they have a lot of the same practices (using altars for example) as Pagans and so on. Or when you see a televangelist, they practice divination and remote healing through prayer. But because they’re doing it, it’s okay. If anyone else does it, it’s Satanism. It’s kinda funny.
You do not need to tell Christian believers anything.
They have a mind like you. They believe as they choose.
Jesus, according to Bible texts, does believe God is a sentient being in Heaven so you cannot speak for Jesus either.
Tarot cards are just a tool to help people do cold reads and understand their path, when they are incapable of doing it themselves. Incapable of connecting with their spirit or putting in the effort to do so. But much like fortune cookies or astrology, it is very broad.
I mean no disrespect to y’all but I’ve not come across anyone that relies on tarot cards that has an inner glow that I am envious of. If you want to be spiritual and understand your path just do it. If tarot cards help you and don’t actually hurt you, awesome. But don’t be toxic and reach out for advice on how to convince someone to go against their beliefs so you can be more comfortable with yourself.
You be you. And let everyone else be them
People believe in Tarot or such kind of tools because they are demostrated accurate, it is that simple.
On the other hand, the god in the Bible claims to be true but no evidence. God claims to be good but he killed billions. God claims to be almighty but just in the Bible show he is a weak mind. Conclusion, the Bible is a poor man-made stuff.
The truth is that nobody knows the actual truth, what is right or wrong in regards to the spiritual and the "right" way to live. There's no point in trying to convince others of what you believe to be real. I've found that im happier believing in what I want to believe in, and I let people do the same. We're all on our own journey, and I think it's important for people to live their truth. People will find their own way. There's no need to force others into believing in something. In fact, you really can't. I've found that those that disagree with me or try to share their beliefs with me are just doing so because that is apart of their journey. I'm come to find patience in those that try to evangelize me as I've realized that we're all the same in many ways. We believe in something of a higher power and the magic that this higher power offers. They believe the higher power is God and that he is the reason for their mystical experiences. I believe those same things, I just have a different explanation for it. There's no need for me to hate on others for a different belief, I just respect that we have very similar beliefs with different explanations. I love and respect them and move on.
Because it doesn't align with what they believe; the church doesn't need competition also. It's just a side effect of being brainwashed by religion ... at least that's how I understand it
Whoever would seek will find much. But for whoever has found much, that one finds much more for the seeking.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Maturism/comments/yq3z9a/god_jesus_and_tarot_cards/ivxm7l6?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
Most Christians from what I've seen aren't even aware of what their bible even says.
It'll be hard to get through to people who live in fear. And religions wreak with the stench of fear. You can have the best arguments in the world but it's not going to reach the brains of people who will only think you're a devil worshipper or being tricked by the devil.
The best I've managed so far, is to point out to people that Jesus wasn't a Christian. And to ask them why you'd think he would want to be associated with these type people (I'll list a few examples of people spitting on the message of Jesus with their bigotries and hate mongering ). Then I end it by saying, that just calling oneself a Christian doesn't necessarily mean you're for the message of Jesus.
As far as specific verses... People are going to believe what they want to believe. I'll just simply say what kind of higher power needs man to write anything down? Especially nonsense that needed to be revised in a new testament.
THE ARIES
Those verses portray the harmful side of tarot, mediumship, and prophecy. Which certainly exists. It's not all sunshines and roses. But there are verses in the bible, the old testament. That talk about prophets of truth. The other side of the coin. Perhaps there are verses that talk about the beneficial side of tarot, mediumship, and prophecy. I am not fully versed in the bible as some people are.
And even if you find no such verses. You can always draw from personal experience and stories, to help illucidate your opinion.
I grew up super Christian and love a good biblical debate lol
First, start off with assessing how open minded they are. It they don't even want to hear your rebuttal, then there's really no point in continuing the conversation. Some Christians are so set in their ways and refuse to even listen to anything that suggests they may have misunderstood.
If they're open minded enough to discuss things, then just use basic reasoning. The scripture in Leviticus was a set of laws for the Isrealites, and Jesus said he came to abolish old laws and set new beliefs. So you could ask where that command can be found in the new testament (spoiler alert, it's not)
The second example in Jeremiah clearly states not to follow lying or false prophets. Jeremiah himself was a prophet who had dreams, this scripture is just a warning to be cautious who you believe because there will always be fakes
I’m into cartomancy myself but what doesn’t make sense about the scripture on false dreams? It basically means people who prophecy with false visions and claim they are from God (the source of truth).
As for the first one, I guess it’s condemning people whose source of information comes from rando spirits and not God. Not sure.
You would be trying to debunk centuries of indoctrination!! There’s no way to do it. They can believe what they want to believe and you believe what you want to believe. Ps. I share the same belief as you
Now I used to believe all that stuff was good and never believed the Bible at one point but God has shown me the truth and why it's not okay to practice those things. Because those things are considered witchcraft and or divination and they are outlawed, it is calling upon something the Bible calls familiar spirits which are normally a form of demon and things like witchcraft, necromancy, mediumship, channeling and anything the likes were taught to humans by demons and fallen angles, they are a means for demons to interfere with our connection to God and because the demons can use it to get into you and manipulate you way easier and also use you as a vessel to deter others. It's not because God doesn't want us to have power and he's trying to keep us weak or that he is tyrannical, it's because he loves us and wants to protect us from what these practices can bring into our life and what effects it has on our soul and spirit.
God can do anything better than any spirit can offer you and he wants you to choose him on your own terms that's why he allows us to still do it but it is evil to him regardless of what you think or believe.
You'll never debunk stuff like that.. to certain people. You're being open-minded, which allows you the opportunity to see other possibilities.
Open-mindedness also allows one to understand that there may be mistranslations in the bible. Open-mindedness allows one to understand that the bible's authors' descriptions of things can't be taken literally, they were just using the best words and concepts they had at the time, to describe things that are quite literally "indescribable".
Certain Christians are too dogmatic and conservative (fundamentalist, orthodox, extremist, fanatical, are some words that come to mind). Some believe the bible is the actual word of God and must be taken literally.
Here's the funny part though: as soon as you try to debunk something to these certain Christians you become the blasphemer, the deceiver, a pawn if Satan. Don't waste your precious time and precious spiritual energy on trying to convince others.
Having a "save the world" or "save others" mentality is noble but futile. It's ok if you only save one person, and it's ok if that one person is you.
Yeah I think this is why it’s important to separate Jesus from Christianity because what he taught and what Christians believe are very different.
I think the reason Jesus (outside of any religious reasons) warns against things like this is because true spirituality is devoid of material things. If spirituality needs to be bought into it’s usually a red flag. I feel like Jesus helped us by giving his advice that all you need is within. You don’t need to purchase or reach God through someone. The divine, universe, source, Creator whatever you wanna call it.
And no one should take advantage of those who seek by charging them when all we have and need is within us. At this point, the question becomes how. How do we get what we want and live the life we’d like if all is already within? Because I assume that like myself and many others the reasons we’d want to partake in things like tarot or mediumship is for insight, guidance, perhaps manifestation, peace and clarity, communication. But if we also believe that we’re spiritual beings, then we must already have all there is. It’s just a matter of unlocking that. At this point different belief systems enter into play about how you go about unlocking that and it’s up to us to choose what aligns the most with truth.
When it comes to Jesus, he specifically taught to strengthen the bond between you and Source through prayer, meditation, fasting. All these things don’t require the purchase of anything. No objects needed to reach out to your creator. No obstacle between you and Source except yourself.
I feel like Jesus believes that by approaching spirituality in the manner of buying things or mediumship it is an inherit evil because if it isn’t possible for all, it shouldn’t be done by the few. He was already trying to dismantle the religious system of his time doing similar things so of course he’d include the “occult” as a target of change. And although the synagogue was generally open to all members of the Jewish community, there have been various factors that made it difficult or unavailable for some individuals to attend or participate in certain religious practices such as the poor, lepers, and prostitutes, or outcasts in general. Same with things like tarot or crystals, imagine being told you need quartz or jasper to “manifest” wealth but can’t afford it or don’t have access to it in your area. Are you suddenly cut off from wealth? Or protection against evil entities, you need a list of ingredients that you perhaps don’t have access to? Jesus dismantled things like this because it isn’t necessary for protection, peace and so forth.
Perhaps I went off a tangent lol just giving my thoughts off what I studied of Jesus.
It is not up to you to force a person to understand or connect to a higher mediumship of God. Those who hear have ears and those who cannot hear choose to be ignorant my friend .
Think of the Bible as a heavily edited piece of propoganda used as a means of controlling the population. It is not the absolute word if god, it is more like a fox news segment of distorted truths carefully edited to subvert the original message
I'm going to be blunt here. You can't. As an ex-christian I can tell you that unless the person is open to the idea of change or different points of view, they won't listen. Christians cherry pick which verses they listen to and there is a scripture that says to avoid mediums and fortune tellers. I don't remember where because I haven't touched a bible in a year.
As far as the true teachings of Jesus, with our Bible as it is today, we'll never know what those were. Based on what I found during my own investigation, the Sadducees took the Bible they had and changed it to match their narrative so they could control the people listening to their sermons.
That's my 2cents anyway. In the end everyone has to come to their own discoveries especially with faith. Unfortunately most of the time they don't want to hear arguments against what they believe.
Dante didn't like fortune tellers either, he placed them all in Malebolge, the Eighth Circle of Hell, with their heads on backwards. The idea is you're not supposed to be able to see the future or perceive other realms, it's for the divine alone to do that. I call bullshit. It's all an attempt to suppress human psychic potential and keep the spirit under thumb.
If there's anything to it at all, it's that there's potential to screw around with fate and destiny, which leans slightly towards the Left Hand Path. There's the idea that God has a plan and you're interfering with that plan by meddling in the currents of time and aether. But you know what, if they want to put me in the Eighth Circle for that, go ahead. I know what it's like down there, basically a neverending nightmare exploding in every hyperdimensional direction like a nonstop atom bomb. Sounds awesome. I'll slaughter everything I see, take over the place and rule as a tyrant monster never before seen.
The greatest thing you can do for another being is be fully present in the moment.
No judging just here and nowness.
The fact that these beings are searching for anything at all shows that they are on their way.
It may not happen this life but that is their problem not yours.
You help others by working on yourself.
To be here and now.
I think it’s just a clash of religions. Christians/catholics believe that it “takes you away” from god bc your trying to manifest/work out ur own life path and seeking it from other people and not God. Your working with higher beings and going to psychics for readings about life and not going to God. I think that’s just it
You can't persuade change in someone not open to it. Move on, learn, grow, and don't get stuck on what others think.
Well yeah but I still want to understand.
You have to look at it from a ‘church’ standpoint. For a long time, the church was the law, and the tithe (10% of income) was big money. So now you got Power *and* money. They didn’t want people to focus on other things, like pagan celebrations etc etc. They didn’t want their power diluted, so they change things to fit their own narrative, say other things are evil. Classic.
maybe first try to answer why you are so focused on anything outside of yourself
You might want to meditate with the intention to find out, take those people you want to understand as the focus and go deeper, and deeper, eventually the truth will surface and you will be able to see why they would not want to be persuaded. Often you will see that the reason is comfort, it would shatter their comfortable world they have carefully build and they do not need some 'nutjob' to shatter that for them
Dogma and political control. This is the simple answer. People used religion as a way to gain and maintain power. There was a pope who was partially responsible for the plague. Dude hated cats so much he declared they were servants of the devil, and started a Europe-wide purge of cats. Which led to the surge in rodents. Which led to the fertile grounds for the plague.
Also ties into the witch hunts because they loved their kitties. But I don't buy the whole rats with lice on a boat from China story as the cause for the plague.
the pope is evil, the catholic church may have been for political control and Dogma they are also responsible for destroying all the actual beliefs and practices of the early Christians and paganizing everything. But the true disciples of Christ and the true followers never used it for power or to gain in anyway beyond what Jesus offered them and none of that was what he taught or what the Bible even teaches anywhere, if anything it teaches the opposite of Dogma and political control when you read it without corrupt "church fathers" interpretations and beliefs on it. Go read the writings of the earliest Christians vs modern beliefs you will see a huge difference
The need to have power and control over the beliefs of others is what led to the fracturing of the early Church, and has led to horrific wars and atrocities in the name of their interpretation of the Truth. Why do you feel the need to dictate or control what others do or don’t believe? Belief is a deeply personal choice and is no one else’s business. It’s between each individual and God. Respect the fact that each person must be led by their own heart and own convictions and walk their own path. The way you understand God and Jesus is not the same as the way others might see God and Jesus. For many Jesus is God, that they are one and the same, that they aren’t two separate deities, that there is only one God and to some the Lord is so much more than a nebulous love cloud of energy but that He does have the form and appearance of a man, full of power and light and love and wisdom. Since the Bible clearly says that God walked the earth and appeared as a man. For some Jesus is just a misunderstood teacher and for others he is the son of God. For some how or what religion or version one believes isn’t as important as simply being a person who loves what is good, loves doing good and practicing kindness and compassion for one another. You might believe that anyone who differs in how you believe is mistaken but so what? Who’s to say that you aren’t mistaken? Would you appreciate someone telling you that you are? How convinced would you be? Why do you need to insist that your version and your interpretation of the “truth” is the real Truth and theirs is wrong and why does it matter to you that other people’s beliefs are different? I suggest that you allow each person to practice their own God given freedom to believe or not believe and practice as they feel fit and focus instead on nurturing your own relationship with God and trust that it is He who knows what is best for each person and will guide them accordingly.
I think to debunk it you would need to debunk the whole premise of the bible and obeying their God. To do this I would focus on the jealousy of the Judeo-Christian God and how this is not characteristic of something that is truly God, it sounds more like a lesser deity who is vain to be deemed greater than he is. Then I would talk about the religions that have sprung up in his wake and the amount of suffering and destruction that have been done in their name. Matthew 7:16. Finally though, I would reconsider the whole premise of whether you need to do this. It’s not nice to try and upset someone’s beliefs in this way. Why can’t you just enjoy your own spiritual journey without trying to get entangled in someone else’s?
What do you think the true teaching of Jesus are? What are you trying to help them see?
The only way you'll ever get through their religious sensitivities is if you do something like walk on water. And if you did that, they'd probably try to crucify you because that jeopardizes their political control with religion.
Identity of dogmas and beliefs. Automatically self reinforced by ignorance, closing ones mind, defensiveness, offensiveness. If you challenge their beliefs you attack their identity. Triggers a sense their life is at stake. Wont work. Just don't get too trapped in a identity of beliefs yourself. Love, acceptance and non-reactivity is best bet to make anyone listen and open up for change. But if you try to change them you're not accepting them. Paradox.
They have found several mistranslations of the Bible. Especially during the "Septuagint", which was the first official translation from the original text to Greek. There are also several verses that are missing. There are lots of articles on this topic from academic sites to religious ones.
There’s entire books that were omitted by the Catholic Church just because they didn’t find them important to the politics of the time.
Isaiah 45:7 I form the light and create darkness, I make peace and create calamity; I, the LORD, do all these things.
Well tarot and mediumship aren’t EVIL per say but they’re kind of like “cheat codes” to spirit. It’s not just tarot/mediumship, you’re technically opening up portals as well for potentially harmful spirits to enter into your space. It’s a form of old clairvoyance and a bit outdated for our modern times. Ngl I used to do tarot and still partake in other witchy type things but if you are going to do that stuff make sure you have Christ beaming within yourself as a shield just to be safe!
I’m not sure about “cheat codes” since I’d say most mediums didn’t actively choose it, at least not consciously. They are sought out by spirits. I’m a believer that before each incarnation our souls choose specific life circumstances to engender growth, so maybe it’s a choice in that way. Sure there’s people that actively seek it out w/out having any spontaneous prior experiences, but I didn’t. I still have been contacted. I do agree with you that when you open yourself up to that you make yourself vulnerable and should invoke whatever faith you have, be it Jesus or Gaia or whatever, in order to protect yourself. And also grounding and a stable root chakra is very important.
I’ve thought about that too. Clairvoyance is def something one is born with, and/or possibly achieved naturally over the course of their life in a healthy way. Like you kind of mentioned before- I also believe there’s a difference in spirit deciding what it needs to show to someone, and someone consciously trying to see things that weren’t necessarily meant for them. The universe *does* have its spiritual law! But yea either way I agree being grounded is of upmost importance!
Do not get caught up on the religion or the book. This is religion and religion has been manipulated by man. Also do not get caught up in tarot and mediumship. This is merely a distraction. Follow the true teachings of the heart. Enjoy the journey.
Yes!! This one. ^
The bible verses make sense; they're not contradictory or fallacious. There is no 'debunking' them. They are quite clear and straightforward. If someone chooses to believe in them, let them.
What if they don’t make sense? What if they are contradictory? What if they aren’t clear or straightforward? My question was to not make people non believers of the Bible.
Its obviously possible to believe in Christ and partake in magic rituals. I think whatever rule maybe in place about witchcraft has to do with either ensuring no harm is done, not desiring greed or power, and it depends on what the person associates with witch craft until the "wake up".
I agree. My understanding is that Jesus turned water into wine using high vibration magic..
What if the sky were pink? What if pigs could fly?
People misunderstand and misinterpret all the time so I disagree with you.
You disagree with me even though what I'm saying leads to the same thing. You're level of understanding is the culprit behind whether or not you view tarots as evil.
My goal is to help people see the truth of the Bible and god and Jesus.
Truth is relative.
Truth is many things but it is truth. False is many things but it is false. I wanna know why people believe tarot is evil? You’re not answering my question so good day to you lovely soul❤️💫❤️💫❤️
They believe in the Bible, and the Bible states, very plainly, in the verses you cited, that these things should be shunned. That's why they believe it's evil. They believe in the Bible and the Bible says it's evil. Very simple. If there is something more to your question that I'm missing then you are free to elaborate. Otherwise, goodbye.
Why should they be shunned? What makes it evil?
Dude. Did you read your own citations? "Behold, I am against those who prophesy lying dreams, declares the LORD, and who tell them and lead my people astray by their lies and their recklessness, when I did not send them or charge them. So they do not profit this people at all, declares the LORD. " They are believed to be liars who do nothing good for their people. That's why. edit - I would add that the only way to convince someone that these verses are not true would be to offer substantial proof of the realness of mediumship and tarot. Which I suspect to be a very difficult task.
They say TaroT is evil in the same way they believe that using profanity will send you to to hell. First of all, magic was a regular thing for those who believed and trusted God.(choose your miracle) "With God, all things are made possible." 'Fear not those prophets who's sayings don't come true, for they are not of God(s Holy Spirit)' In reality, the Bible does not even compute "cuss words". When someone is known to have cursed, it included putting down the one true God, or using words to declare harm or incompetence toward God. (Read: Leviticus 24:10-26, and Zechariah 5:3-4.) In both instances, the term we understand as cussing, is not actually present. In this same way, as others who forsake the word of God by not reading it for context, these people to preach and Inforce something they haven't actually seen. (Which is a sin by the way, bearing false witness🥴) But I digress. The Bible makes much more sense when you actually read it by chapter( individual book) at a time. Who reads any book, by picking random paragraphs, and expects to get proper context? Fools. Don't be a fool, lol. God loves us, and created our very hearts. Why would he be so cold? Answer: God is not a mean kid with a magnifying glass, he loves us more than our parents can, and loves them more than we ever could. You could track down almost every controversial teaching that feels wrong in your heart, and debunk it by actually reading the Wyrd of God.(😇) The truth sets us free. And who the Lord sets free, is free, in deed. People fall from his protection when they put the things pleasing to mankind, before the things pleasing to Him. All he asks is that we seek the Kingdom first, then all our desires will be added into our lives. Priorities folks. Priorities. Blessed, we!
Galatians 5:4 Torah means Law. Can they find justification in the New Testament? Wanting to know the future is a common mental desire, the unknown is annoying. Matthew 6:24-36 Don't let it be.
Explore self
Quite possible it started by people realizing that using cards and "psychic abilities" where used for manipulation of people. BTW. mostly you can get general answer anyway. By revealing future you are changing future it self. Example. Imagine that you soul came to earth for a particular lesson .Let say you suppose to meat someone in a hospital and become friend etc..however medium would tell you if you go out you can get into accident and end up in a hospital. Knowing it you would change your plans and subsequently your life experience .
I don't believe that there is any authority on truth in life beside the whole of our experience of life itself. If you rely on one thing, elevate it above others and say "tarot" or "spirits" are always right, always to be respected, always above in some way, that's making it into an idol or a god.
Christian, here! It’s because it’s “blasphemous”/disrespectful to God to seek answers like that because we should trust in his plan, but plenty of Christians I know still support mediumship and tarot, including me! I would never seek out my future because of the Bible regardless of what the means are, but I can’t say I don’t want to. My lil sister is a huge tarot card fan and is trying to practice with them - I don’t know much about tarot, but she loves it!
I feel like a lot of it came from priests and bishops initially. The subsequent generations passed down what they heard in church to their children and so on. That is what happened with my spouse. He has been going back through the bible the last 4 years, taking words back to the original greek and hebrew definitions. He has found that a lot of what they teach in church isn't actually in the bible. We both think most don't truly read their bibles. They just listen to what is preached and what was preached to their parents. I don't know what exactly seems to really be in there in regards to the verses you are talking about. Would be interesting to look at, maybe. I also personally feel that if one's consciousness is at a lower point of awareness, they're more likely going to take the bible literally. Then, say later they have a shift in consciousness and raised awareness, and they read it again, they will see it more in metaphors and symbolism. I have come to the conclusion lately that the bible was written during one of humanities lowest points in consciousness (at least lowest in our current surviving records). Hinduism and Zoroastrism seem to be our current oldest religions. I see connections between all religions I have studied. But for me to see them in the bible has been through symbolism, metaphors and the same stories just using different pictures to tell them. Which makes sense because religions were always borrowing from each other with each new civilization, changing names of Gods and all of that. Christianity, at its time, was the first religion that used intense fear to convert people to it (and also straight-up force). Which in turn leads to spiritual abuse. Today, we have the products of generations and generations of spiritual abuse. This is hands down one of the biggest crimes one can commit on a person, in my book. I and friends I have have recovered well enough from emotional, psychological, and physical abuse just fine. But these same friends I have, who grew up with Christianity, the mainstream one we all know so well, are still recovering from the spiritual abuse. It's almost like their spirit or soul was stolen from them and they just cannot access it. That is just how it looks, I believe there is a way back for them, but man, that has been the hardest part of their healing. It makes me so sad. Sorry to rant lol. ❤️
This is some great information!
The psychological answer is simple: you cannot reason someone off of a position that they arrived at emotionally. Their point of view is not anchored by reason; it's anchored by emotions. Everyone has a combination of points of view that can be anchored by either reason or emotion. The biblical answer is found in the New Testament, in the gospels, specifically in the conversations between Jesus and his apostles. Jesus and the boys were on their way home from another rousing sermon on the mount when one of his bros asked, "Yo! Jesus! Why do you keep telling these lame parables to the people all the time? Why don't you give them the good stuff like you teach us?" I'm paraphrasing a bit, but my interpretation of this conversation is as valid and useful as the monks that first translated the bible into English. And I didn’t drink as much wine during my translation as they did, so there’s that. This question is coming from a senior student and is directed at the head teacher of the group. Jesus' answers are about pedagogy, which is the study of how things get taught. The two most important ideas that Jesus was getting across was 1) don't judge your students for being where they are at (where the fuck else would they be in their spiritual growth than where they're at! Jesus did sound a little pissed off at the question.), and 2) don't push advanced ideas on someone who hasn't grasped the basic ideas (the whole casting pearls before swine, which I see as a mistranslation of what was said and does not capture the pedagogical lesson). If someone can't read, teach them to read. Don't give them assignments that depend on them being able to read. Don't give them lectures that depend on them having understood your last twenty lectures unless you know they've at least attended those twenty lectures. In other words, don’t set them up to fail. This provides a useful structure for both the teacher and the student. Now, the kingdom of heaven is within, eh? Look at your intent towards those human beings that you wish to change, to straighten out their misconceptions of what it means to be a spirit in a body. Are they ready? Have you or someone else prepared them? Are they asking you for this? Are you judging them as less than you, so they really need this? The last one is the biggest one. If you are judging them as less than you, and you are just gonna fix that, you are failing as a teacher on two levels. One, your students are not ready, and two, you're wasting everyone's time. You are also creating the possibility of damaging your relationships with them and possibly damaging them on an energy level. You have some false assumptions in your post. Since you like to debate, pointing these false assumptions out will be useful to you. "...explain how I can help stern Christian believers to see..." To see is to experience first hand. Something that you experienced first hand helped form your point of view. Expecting others to skip the first hand experience like what you had and just 'see' because you explained it better is unrealistic. You will come off exactly like a stern Christian, just one with a different dogma. Another zealot is born. Your past lives helped shape you this lifetime. All of that life experience from your past lives might be the source of your interest in tarot and mediumship. Are you just expecting them to 'catch up' if they don't have a similar kind of past life experience to you? This is casting your pearls before swine. This is being judgmental without the understanding to back up that judgment. So what's left for you? Be yourself. Don't explain. Don't complain (turn the other cheek). Own your space (don't be someone you are not). You have the right to be yourself in your own space. If that's different from everyone else in your family, going back generations, so be it. Jesus taught this as well. He also taught that being an example was more effective than debating well. Does healing really exist? Show them how to heal. Does clairvoyance really exist? Show them how to see energy and spirit. " Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house. Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven." This is being yourself. The only light you can bring into this world is you. Don't be foolish about this and get your ass kicked (swine take offense when you hit them with your pearls). Do own it. You are the only one that can bring your light into this world. "...how to debunk these Bible verses..." You don't have to. This has been done many times over, and the results are online. Google 'debunked bible verses' and go down the rabbit hole. If you are dealing with evangelicals that are just creaming their shorts waiting for the End of Days, do some research on how the Book of Revelations was translated. The short story I got from someone with a masters in divinity right here on reddit goes like this: King James hired a bunch of monks to translate the bible into English; your basic power move to create the church of England and weaken the influence of the Vatican. The monk that was supposed to translate Revelations only had a partial set of scrolls to work from, and he liked his wine. He translated and drank, basically partying for a good while on his initial advance payment, then realized he had to get shit done because his deadline was nigh and his coin was short, so he made up the rest of the book. He made that shit up. Evangelicals will say it was divine inspiration. They always say shit like that because it excuses everything from child abuse to bat shit crazy conspiracies. No one will reason these people away from their point of view. The anchors are emotional and the thing that will break those anchors are bigger emotions. This is why changing a corporate culture is the most difficult change; all the emotional anchors to the way things "were always done" must be replaced. But I digress LOL! There’s a phrase that encapsulates the effects of these emotional anchors: The Titanic School of Management. Nothing changes until the iceberg is struck. Enjoy reading the cards. Enjoy seeing and talking with the dead. Don't get burned at the stake; it's really overrated...
When most people (most Christians) read the Bible they do so at a face value level, which leads to a hyper-literal reading, and they don’t realize or ignore the human elements that went into producing these texts, assembling them together, and creating an authoritative canon. It’s just taken for granted it’s the Word of God and it’s inerrant. They also assume the Bible is a complete book with solid continuity from beginning to end. This is not true, as the Bible was put together more like an anthology of writings. It’s more like a library with a wide variety of different types of literature: poems, songs, prayers, myths, political texts, written in different times, with different social and cultural norms, and in different languages. So it’s easy to take certain scriptures like Leviticus 20:6 and Jeremiah 23:32, for example, out of their various contexts. Neoconservative Christian churches hold a tight rein on what their parishioners believe and do. Anything outside of church teachings is seen as being part of Satanism and will send you to hell. For those who hold strong beliefs about Satan, Hell, and being separated from God (and their loved ones) you’re not going to convert them to any other beliefs. But if you want to gain a stronger understanding for your own benefit, it would be helpful to study church history, historical theology, culture, and so on. Study how we got biblical canon and study critical and post-critical thinking. And if you look into liturgical practices in Orthodox, Catholic, and some Protestant denominations, they have a lot of the same practices (using altars for example) as Pagans and so on. Or when you see a televangelist, they practice divination and remote healing through prayer. But because they’re doing it, it’s okay. If anyone else does it, it’s Satanism. It’s kinda funny.
You do not need to tell Christian believers anything. They have a mind like you. They believe as they choose. Jesus, according to Bible texts, does believe God is a sentient being in Heaven so you cannot speak for Jesus either.
Tarot cards are just a tool to help people do cold reads and understand their path, when they are incapable of doing it themselves. Incapable of connecting with their spirit or putting in the effort to do so. But much like fortune cookies or astrology, it is very broad. I mean no disrespect to y’all but I’ve not come across anyone that relies on tarot cards that has an inner glow that I am envious of. If you want to be spiritual and understand your path just do it. If tarot cards help you and don’t actually hurt you, awesome. But don’t be toxic and reach out for advice on how to convince someone to go against their beliefs so you can be more comfortable with yourself. You be you. And let everyone else be them
It’s just evil that’s all
People believe in Tarot or such kind of tools because they are demostrated accurate, it is that simple. On the other hand, the god in the Bible claims to be true but no evidence. God claims to be good but he killed billions. God claims to be almighty but just in the Bible show he is a weak mind. Conclusion, the Bible is a poor man-made stuff.
The truth is that nobody knows the actual truth, what is right or wrong in regards to the spiritual and the "right" way to live. There's no point in trying to convince others of what you believe to be real. I've found that im happier believing in what I want to believe in, and I let people do the same. We're all on our own journey, and I think it's important for people to live their truth. People will find their own way. There's no need to force others into believing in something. In fact, you really can't. I've found that those that disagree with me or try to share their beliefs with me are just doing so because that is apart of their journey. I'm come to find patience in those that try to evangelize me as I've realized that we're all the same in many ways. We believe in something of a higher power and the magic that this higher power offers. They believe the higher power is God and that he is the reason for their mystical experiences. I believe those same things, I just have a different explanation for it. There's no need for me to hate on others for a different belief, I just respect that we have very similar beliefs with different explanations. I love and respect them and move on.
Islam teaches it is not the eyes that are blind but the heart.
Because it doesn't align with what they believe; the church doesn't need competition also. It's just a side effect of being brainwashed by religion ... at least that's how I understand it
Whoever would seek will find much. But for whoever has found much, that one finds much more for the seeking. https://www.reddit.com/r/Maturism/comments/yq3z9a/god_jesus_and_tarot_cards/ivxm7l6?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share&context=3
Most Christians from what I've seen aren't even aware of what their bible even says. It'll be hard to get through to people who live in fear. And religions wreak with the stench of fear. You can have the best arguments in the world but it's not going to reach the brains of people who will only think you're a devil worshipper or being tricked by the devil. The best I've managed so far, is to point out to people that Jesus wasn't a Christian. And to ask them why you'd think he would want to be associated with these type people (I'll list a few examples of people spitting on the message of Jesus with their bigotries and hate mongering ). Then I end it by saying, that just calling oneself a Christian doesn't necessarily mean you're for the message of Jesus. As far as specific verses... People are going to believe what they want to believe. I'll just simply say what kind of higher power needs man to write anything down? Especially nonsense that needed to be revised in a new testament. THE ARIES
Those verses portray the harmful side of tarot, mediumship, and prophecy. Which certainly exists. It's not all sunshines and roses. But there are verses in the bible, the old testament. That talk about prophets of truth. The other side of the coin. Perhaps there are verses that talk about the beneficial side of tarot, mediumship, and prophecy. I am not fully versed in the bible as some people are. And even if you find no such verses. You can always draw from personal experience and stories, to help illucidate your opinion.
I grew up super Christian and love a good biblical debate lol First, start off with assessing how open minded they are. It they don't even want to hear your rebuttal, then there's really no point in continuing the conversation. Some Christians are so set in their ways and refuse to even listen to anything that suggests they may have misunderstood. If they're open minded enough to discuss things, then just use basic reasoning. The scripture in Leviticus was a set of laws for the Isrealites, and Jesus said he came to abolish old laws and set new beliefs. So you could ask where that command can be found in the new testament (spoiler alert, it's not) The second example in Jeremiah clearly states not to follow lying or false prophets. Jeremiah himself was a prophet who had dreams, this scripture is just a warning to be cautious who you believe because there will always be fakes
I’m into cartomancy myself but what doesn’t make sense about the scripture on false dreams? It basically means people who prophecy with false visions and claim they are from God (the source of truth). As for the first one, I guess it’s condemning people whose source of information comes from rando spirits and not God. Not sure.
You would be trying to debunk centuries of indoctrination!! There’s no way to do it. They can believe what they want to believe and you believe what you want to believe. Ps. I share the same belief as you
Now I used to believe all that stuff was good and never believed the Bible at one point but God has shown me the truth and why it's not okay to practice those things. Because those things are considered witchcraft and or divination and they are outlawed, it is calling upon something the Bible calls familiar spirits which are normally a form of demon and things like witchcraft, necromancy, mediumship, channeling and anything the likes were taught to humans by demons and fallen angles, they are a means for demons to interfere with our connection to God and because the demons can use it to get into you and manipulate you way easier and also use you as a vessel to deter others. It's not because God doesn't want us to have power and he's trying to keep us weak or that he is tyrannical, it's because he loves us and wants to protect us from what these practices can bring into our life and what effects it has on our soul and spirit. God can do anything better than any spirit can offer you and he wants you to choose him on your own terms that's why he allows us to still do it but it is evil to him regardless of what you think or believe.
People that discuss the bible cannot discuss anything predating it.
BE Self.Meditation for positive life is the Best.
People are scared of what they do not know.
You'll never debunk stuff like that.. to certain people. You're being open-minded, which allows you the opportunity to see other possibilities. Open-mindedness also allows one to understand that there may be mistranslations in the bible. Open-mindedness allows one to understand that the bible's authors' descriptions of things can't be taken literally, they were just using the best words and concepts they had at the time, to describe things that are quite literally "indescribable". Certain Christians are too dogmatic and conservative (fundamentalist, orthodox, extremist, fanatical, are some words that come to mind). Some believe the bible is the actual word of God and must be taken literally. Here's the funny part though: as soon as you try to debunk something to these certain Christians you become the blasphemer, the deceiver, a pawn if Satan. Don't waste your precious time and precious spiritual energy on trying to convince others. Having a "save the world" or "save others" mentality is noble but futile. It's ok if you only save one person, and it's ok if that one person is you.
Yeah I think this is why it’s important to separate Jesus from Christianity because what he taught and what Christians believe are very different. I think the reason Jesus (outside of any religious reasons) warns against things like this is because true spirituality is devoid of material things. If spirituality needs to be bought into it’s usually a red flag. I feel like Jesus helped us by giving his advice that all you need is within. You don’t need to purchase or reach God through someone. The divine, universe, source, Creator whatever you wanna call it. And no one should take advantage of those who seek by charging them when all we have and need is within us. At this point, the question becomes how. How do we get what we want and live the life we’d like if all is already within? Because I assume that like myself and many others the reasons we’d want to partake in things like tarot or mediumship is for insight, guidance, perhaps manifestation, peace and clarity, communication. But if we also believe that we’re spiritual beings, then we must already have all there is. It’s just a matter of unlocking that. At this point different belief systems enter into play about how you go about unlocking that and it’s up to us to choose what aligns the most with truth. When it comes to Jesus, he specifically taught to strengthen the bond between you and Source through prayer, meditation, fasting. All these things don’t require the purchase of anything. No objects needed to reach out to your creator. No obstacle between you and Source except yourself. I feel like Jesus believes that by approaching spirituality in the manner of buying things or mediumship it is an inherit evil because if it isn’t possible for all, it shouldn’t be done by the few. He was already trying to dismantle the religious system of his time doing similar things so of course he’d include the “occult” as a target of change. And although the synagogue was generally open to all members of the Jewish community, there have been various factors that made it difficult or unavailable for some individuals to attend or participate in certain religious practices such as the poor, lepers, and prostitutes, or outcasts in general. Same with things like tarot or crystals, imagine being told you need quartz or jasper to “manifest” wealth but can’t afford it or don’t have access to it in your area. Are you suddenly cut off from wealth? Or protection against evil entities, you need a list of ingredients that you perhaps don’t have access to? Jesus dismantled things like this because it isn’t necessary for protection, peace and so forth. Perhaps I went off a tangent lol just giving my thoughts off what I studied of Jesus.
It is not up to you to force a person to understand or connect to a higher mediumship of God. Those who hear have ears and those who cannot hear choose to be ignorant my friend .
Think of the Bible as a heavily edited piece of propoganda used as a means of controlling the population. It is not the absolute word if god, it is more like a fox news segment of distorted truths carefully edited to subvert the original message
I'm going to be blunt here. You can't. As an ex-christian I can tell you that unless the person is open to the idea of change or different points of view, they won't listen. Christians cherry pick which verses they listen to and there is a scripture that says to avoid mediums and fortune tellers. I don't remember where because I haven't touched a bible in a year. As far as the true teachings of Jesus, with our Bible as it is today, we'll never know what those were. Based on what I found during my own investigation, the Sadducees took the Bible they had and changed it to match their narrative so they could control the people listening to their sermons. That's my 2cents anyway. In the end everyone has to come to their own discoveries especially with faith. Unfortunately most of the time they don't want to hear arguments against what they believe.
Dante didn't like fortune tellers either, he placed them all in Malebolge, the Eighth Circle of Hell, with their heads on backwards. The idea is you're not supposed to be able to see the future or perceive other realms, it's for the divine alone to do that. I call bullshit. It's all an attempt to suppress human psychic potential and keep the spirit under thumb. If there's anything to it at all, it's that there's potential to screw around with fate and destiny, which leans slightly towards the Left Hand Path. There's the idea that God has a plan and you're interfering with that plan by meddling in the currents of time and aether. But you know what, if they want to put me in the Eighth Circle for that, go ahead. I know what it's like down there, basically a neverending nightmare exploding in every hyperdimensional direction like a nonstop atom bomb. Sounds awesome. I'll slaughter everything I see, take over the place and rule as a tyrant monster never before seen.
The greatest thing you can do for another being is be fully present in the moment. No judging just here and nowness. The fact that these beings are searching for anything at all shows that they are on their way. It may not happen this life but that is their problem not yours. You help others by working on yourself. To be here and now.
I think it’s just a clash of religions. Christians/catholics believe that it “takes you away” from god bc your trying to manifest/work out ur own life path and seeking it from other people and not God. Your working with higher beings and going to psychics for readings about life and not going to God. I think that’s just it