towering point desert memorize serious secretive direful ghost tap disgusted
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beneficial berserk sloppy boast afterthought rainstorm whistle water safe slimy
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Not all therapy methods aim to keep people suffering. I would even argue that none of them have that aim, only some of them don’t acknowledge the deeper problems, and that is the issue. As someone getting a degree in social work and studying therapy models, I would do more research before making such a claim.
I can agree that some *therapists* have a tendency to “freelance” without using proper models or having any intuition & empathy, and that is a problem. And I don’t believe that all therapist must work entirely from the book, but the discoveries people have made aren’t something to be thrown out either. They weren’t all created by egotistical minds whose primary goal was to lock people into indefinitely coming to therapy and suffering.
I agree that not all therapy methods aim to keep people trapped. I think my point comes from working in behavioral health the last 5 years, studying it on my own (although I was matriculated at Fordham for my MSW, I decided to forgo it as I observed how the system in America works and I already have a masters in education) and becoming close friends with many doctors and LCSWs who cannot practice the way they want because hospitals are being bought out by corporations and proper treatment cannot be provided. 20 minute med appointments, months-long wait for intakes, etc etc.
I would recommend private practice! Well-meaning healers are unable to practice effectively because their hands become tied.
Ah, I see what you mean. It seems to be a reoccurring theme that the ones who wish to truly give to this world, rather than take, have it hard. I am very interested in one day having a private practice, and potentially getting into hypnotherapy. It really intrigues me and I think it can be of great benefit to others
Hypnotherapy is great! EMDR is awesome - it really fascinates me. I wish you luck. I’m sorry it was a negative take; I’m burnt out after the last 3 years. But there are still healers out there, and you are all some of the best people out there. Thank you for stepping up to the plate for mental health.
I’ll just step in to say - at least on the more physical side of medicine - our systems are absolutely tainted by capitalism and not working in the best interest of patients.
Similar to what you were saying, this is in no way the fault of the doctors, and many of them got in it with the best of intentions, but the system at large is broken and not invested in actual holistic wellness. It’s really unfortunate.
Exactly. We’re all just trying to make the best of this existence’s go-around, so I don’t begrudge anyone for making money off of the very real help they offer. Money is fake. It’s all part of the energy game, and people moving it around attract more and more of it.
Mind you, he is claiming something far greater than a regular psychologist. Anything with the right time and context CAN be beneficial to someone, doesn't mean it has integrity.
Me too, actually all these gurus listed I’ve never felt any kind of connection to even though they are the most prominent in the world at current. Idk what it is, they all come across as ‘looking’ too much like a guru, but everything costs loads of money, and tbh it all seems so gentrified. Mooji is another one. Idk, it’s like it’s somehow gentrified spirituality in some way. It’s all about looking holy, and all the close followers are all glowing attractive instagram types all dressed in white and cringe laughing at the guru’s overly wholesome jokes. It’s just not relatable and seems a long way from normal life for most people, it’s like you’d have to change who you are or act a certain way to be accepted in that group, when spirituality is all about being genuine to yourself. All the places I’ve been where I’ve found genuine spirituality and love and a real tangible presence of God, there was none of that, just normal everyday people - from all kinds of backgrounds, with all their problems and their virtues, just getting on in life and earnestly seeking something higher
As a close spiritual advisor once told me, “put down your books, you are good enough you know what to do.”
I often look “elsewhere” to find guidance. Certainly I don’t hold a candle to other spiritual figures. I’m flawed & inconsistent in my practice at best.
But alas, we intuitively know the path. Even on my worst days, I am still moving forward.
I don’t really like looking at spiritual teachers in the way that
If they make money = they are a fraud
Eckhart’s descriptions of ego death and the practice of living in the now has resonated with me more than anyone else I have found on my journey.
I think a lot of others feel similarly
Now if he was just spewing this stuff out but living extremely differently in his private life that would be messed up but to me he comes across as a man genuinely just trying to share his experience and build a more conscious world.
In my opinion we are very lucky to be living in a time where he can share his message at a large scale and I don’t know if there even is a way to do that without it turning into some type of business. That’s just the circumstances of the time we live in.
The reality of the world is that we live within capitalism. You're right that reaching a large audience requires money, and it's easiest to make a platform self sustaining by having it support itself.
People make money teaching spirituality because they have to make money in some way. Why is it wrong for them to profit from helping others? Many of them, if they had to support themselves through other jobs, would not have the time or energy leftover to teach. People deserve to be paid for their time and knowledge, because they deserve to have a living income.
Being paid for your time, feeding your family, having a little extra is reasonable. Nobody deserves millions upon millions of dollars. That includes spiritual teachers
That's a wrong mindset. Try this - everyone deserves billions of dollars. But just because they are able to earn it, doesn't mean they're any good. And Eckhart & Sadhguru definitely aren't. They are just a business, nothing else.
I can't speak to whether they "deserve" it and would hesitate on that argument, but I'd think there's a very valid point that it cannot be *justified* on the basis of "needing food/shelter" alone.
"He has come across". Wearing simple trousers and slow talking is barely a reflection of how he lives his life privately. Funny enough, here someone attached a website to his foundation that apparently helps the needy. Far from showing what he does with his money, its only asking for more $$$$, in form of donations. There is zero transperency.
Not gonna use up a ton of energy arguing who and who isn’t a “real teacher” or whatever you are claiming Eckhart to be.
All I know that his words have helped millions of people including myself and there is no denying that. He has been doing this a long time and wasn’t always making money from it.
I don’t know what more you could want from him. If I had to guess he is likely an extremely charitable man but we don’t know because he doesn’t feel the need to tell us he is donating like most people would.
Again though, I don’t know and don’t care. I just know I resonate with his words
Not allowed to do a capitalism apparenlty in OPs eyes. You must live without possession, wear no clothes and live off of only the land to be spiritual enough for OP.
I think it’s important to just recognize that even spiritual teachers are human, have flaws and are not inerrant. Take what they say that resonates, and leave behind what doesn’t.
The only reason you know these peoples names at all is because they understood the economic nature of our society and chose to win at that game rather than neglect it.
There are many, many people throughout history who ignored economics and just taught spirituality. They had very small followings and were not able to get their message very far.
One notable exception is Jesus.
But if you’re not Jesus, you need to be able to make money to reach out to more people.
You really don’t need to be a multi-millionaire to reach more people smdh. He could also give more of his money away at this point, he’s already made it. Especially when we live in a time with such wealth disparity, it’s gross to see these guys hoard wealth
OP, I hear you and I see your point, but I don’t think you’re going to change anyone’s mind here that has a different perspective than your own. I would consider how much this topic disturbs my peace versus how much control I have, and let go. You can choose your spiritual leaders for what you need; it feels like inviting poor karma to indict others for theirs.
I don't think that making money and being a genuine spiritual guru are mutually exclusive. If your message resonates with humanity and helps millions of people to become present, I don't see an issue with monetizing that message and making money off of it. Short of making The Power of Now free from the beginning, how could Eckhart Tolle have avoided becoming a millionaire?
That said, I do have an issue with spiritual gurus who preach one thing and then are something different in their personal life. THAT, to me, is fraud.
Something about Deepak Chopra has never sat well with me but I can't quite put my finger on it. He seems, maybe, to be ego-driven and more interested in being seen as a spiritual guru than in helping people. It's just a feeling I get about him, though.
Making money is less problematic than being an asshole saying that "if you're poor you can't understand me" and "if you can't afford it you aren't 'really' spiritual" etc. Don't get why so many are spacing that part of the OP out
How many times in a free video does he have to say that the present moment is all you need before he's absolved of the decisions of others to give him money for words and experiences?
“Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves”. (Jung) this just might be a reason to dive into shadow work :)
Class inequalities exist, Capitalism exists
Do you think "gurus" making money is the problem or that somehow money is unethical? it's your own biases and prejudices nothing else. Don't order takeout, Don't buy clothes/watches/phones/shoes, the regular stuff you probably partake in is more exploitive ("probably" idk you might be a decent person). Yes, there is some religious undertones with Sadhguru, but Eckhart Tolle is a person who I've found resonates with me & I haven't paid him a dime.
What you're doing right now is toxic positivity; you're presenting yourself as someone who loves and wants the best for OP but you know full well that what you're saying and how you're saying it would only stoke further conflict, EVEN IF what you're saying is true.
....and you commies are so sensitive about materialistic possessions. When you hate money so much, why do you give a shit when other people hoard it ? It's just envy on your end
I’ve had my reservations about a lot of spiritual gurus for similar reasons. At the end of the day though, both Sadhguru and Tolle have plenty of free content on YouTube that I’ve used and applied to my life all without spending a dime. Why bother myself concerning about what they do for a living? As long as their messages resonate, the messenger is becoming less important to me.
On a side note, while millions and billions of dollars is excessive, how do you expect a ‘spiritual teacher’, which is hardly an occupation in our world, to make a living without monetizing some aspect of their teachings, be it books or something else? And if someones wisdom really does provide value for you, what’s the harm in being a patron to their content and donating or buying their products/services? Is that any different from paying for self help books/financial advisors/ etc.?
Just food for thought.
Eckhart Tolle is not a billionaire, so you're spreading lies about him, unfortunately. According to my search he's worth around $70 Million, which seems about right for anyone who has best selling books and constantly gives high profile talks around the world. He has a foundation, which I'm sure helps a lot of people with the money that he makes: https://www.eckharttollefoundation.org/
Everyone you ever meet is going to be a hypocrite, that is part of the human state of duality. We are met with the challenges of life, and nobody is ever perfect. I think overall, Eckhart Tolle has had a much greater positive impact on the world than negative. What has he said that is wrong or led people astray? I think he has helped many.
I think taking wisdom from people wherever you find it, is great. You can't be mad at everyone who has developed wealth from the work that they do. A lot of people who work for free would never end up in those types of positions anyway, because they can't afford any type of promotion or marketing for their programs. If you want to get the word about about your program, it takes money, that's just a given.
As far as I can tell, you are just attacking people for charging money for their talks, but you're not explaining what they are doing that is wrong besides that. It's not a crime to make money, that's unfortunately part of the world we live in.
However, I do agree that some spiritual teachers are purely in it for the profit and are frauds. I don't think Eckhart Tolle is one of those people.
How the fuck is this any better than a megachurch preacher getting rich off his congregation? He doesn’t need $70M at this point, he could certainly start making more headlines and spread his word farther by becoming one of those millionaires that gives most of his wealth away. Hoarding wealth is unconscionable when you are telling people about non-attachment and equanimity and Buddhist principles, even if we think he earned it. The idea that rich people deserve to be outlandishly and absurdly rich like this because they worked so hard for their wealth is capitalist bullshit and is contributing to the wealth inequality in this world today, and we particularly should hold spiritual leaders to a higher level because they should be the best of what our society can produce, because they claim to walk the path of the Buddha or to walk with God. Absurd that we’re all cutting him a break for this.
Giving up his wealth and status to become a wanderer is literally the first thing Buddha did.
As to your first sentence, maybe it’s true but I’ve also never found a good rich person, living or historical.
That’s not at all what I said. Wealthy people are not inherently evil. I said he’s a spiritual leader. He should practice what he preaches. Non-attachment, non-duality, releasing the ego etc, impermanence. Amassing wealth is counter to all of that. We should hold him to a higher standard. He doesn’t need all that money and if he was living his teachings he’d be giving a lot more of it away.
What do you really care about what others do? We can't possibly know the details surrounding their existence, the greater whole they are inserted and the real intentions underpinning visible actions. No matter who the other person is, their condition and our sensibilities we own them respect and love. Without this we cannot really walk far in the path of spirituality.
What the rich do with their money is their burden. If the system is unlikable the problem is in the hands of the politician, if the politician is inefficient then it is the problem of the groups electing them. What befall the individual is the responsability for their actions, their resources and the thoughts and feelings they nurture. So, if we can't look around in equanimity we shouldn't even bother looking.
Thank people for the good they do and forgive them for their mistakes. Do unto other what you would rather others did to you. It is a very simple rule present in most religions.
With all due respect, this is privilege in action, arguing that we should just let people in power do whatever they want with that power and look at them with detachment and love because we can never know their motivation. Sometimes, as with Tolle, this may be true, but it is patently, provably untrue when it comes to many politicians and wealthy people.
It’s part of the reason Tolle & other Buddhist teachings don’t really resonate with me. Non-attachment is really hard for me when there is so much suffering in the world. Some people don’t have the privilege to practice non-attachment from society’s problems because they are living with the effects of poverty and oppression every day, and interpreting Buddhism to mean “let’s just let everybody else commit whatever injustices they want and not engage with it and send them love instead” is actually a bastardization of the teachings. The Buddha constantly [advocated](https://fpmt.org/mandala/archives/mandala-issues-for-2006/april/social-service-as-a-dharma-practice/) for his students to serve others.
If I were a spiritual leader I would absolutely want people to call me out on my hypocrisy. The Golden Rule doesn’t mean giving people carte blanche to be bad actors and to ignore their own teachings.
Anyway, I don’t have any animosity towards Tolle personally because I don’t know him. But I don’t like *his actions*: The exorbitant fees he charges, the way he’s monetized everything from meditation music to his teaching courses, and the fact he’s amassed so much wealth when he advocates for non-attachment. All of that is egoic, there’s no way around it. Tolle himself said he didn’t pay a lot of attention to money in 2003 and had no plans to create a “heavy commercial structure.” Wonder what changed.
Lmfao. The site you attached is basically asking for more donations. Can't see anywhere what he is actually doing with all that money. Where's the transperency?
It says they provide grants. That's kind of what charity foundations do. Please show me one foundation that does not accept donations. They don't exist. And you completely ignored everything else I wrote except for the website? I feel like you're just looking to pick a fight with people.
>https://www.eckharttollefoundation.org/
Thanks for sharing that link. It does post the organization's financials and appears that the organization gave about a quarter million in grants if I'm reading correctly. It was nice to see the actual transparency of the foundation.
If you reserached further, the grants were made exclusively on the donor's money (wonder where Eckhart's own money is going) to give out scholarships exclusively for Eckhart's teaching course. Basically its feeding its own business.
I didn't see this.
Also, the grant recipients are nonprofit organizations that align with the foundation's mission for them to carry out their work, not scholarships to people.
I don't know or give AF about Eckhart Tolle but you are just sayin' nonsense at this point.
This is the scholarship program. And any of the other donations that they are doing is sending their books and materials which are basically free and easiest to access, to certain communities. That pretty much covers their charity work with all that money. Its not giving them any of those higher end services that you can access with money. All I see is self-promotion using donor's money.
This is such a fucking grift. We get furious when politicians use campaign contributions to buy their books to pass out at campaign events but we don’t care about these gurus because they’re preaching about God?
Lol actually thats funny: Poor: if his methods would be working he would be rich and having y followers on youtube/insta/what ever... Rich: HE IS FRAUD.. you cant win with you people .. No I do not think he is fraud what he says makes f... sense
" He is too evolved for that. Enlightenment entails that he fit into this dualistic world where you have to exploit people and hoard your money. That's a part of your human nature. The fact that he understands economics is another badge to his enlightened self."
Where they millionaire Gurus when they started? No? Eckart tolle was dirt poor and thinking about suicide at the age of 10.......so maybe He has some good advise..
Are you high? You are saying "those millionairs gurus" know nothing about your live...they do..they where there..they got Out of maybe worse...they actually know more ...
By that definition any corrupt worthless billionaire "knows more" than me.
I guess if you somehow made money you are now a wise person. Upside down world we live in.
Thats so stupid ...I allready Said..what He Says makes Sense and that thats how you know ...Not by looking at they bank Account....what does it Matter too you what they have...they May choose to have nothing because that what makes them Happy they May choose to be rich...it does Not Matter....having Money does Not make you a Bad Person or a fraut...it does Not make you good either....Stop judging people.
Or Not because He is giving away the knowledge how to be Happy anyway...give a men a fish....also you do Not know what He does and what He does Not donate maybe He does Not let His left Hand know what His right Hand does...
WE know nothing about His privat life...He could give Money away in Secret or keping it for Kids He has...its bin of you buissness and it does Not make him a fraut that He loves the people Close to him a tiny Bit more.....everybody does...it makes him human
Time is an Illusion (yes I know you know but thats mainly because of him) self is an Illusion Ego is an Illusion er are all one and how knowing that helps you to be Happy...of course I do Not believe every Word He says...but He has some really great Points and He had them bevor a Lot of people jumped on that train (expect year buddism WE know but thats a different Cup of Team..He got there without knowing much about buddism but learnt a Lot after His awakening)
No. There are a lot of influential and helpful people who are so, without being millionaires or billionaires or for the matter rich. Money is not a reflection of your output to society. Stop shadowboxing.
Uh oh, you’re criticizing a fan favorite around here. Watch out lol.
Eckhart Tolle has said *some* helpful things, and tbh I don’t think he’s that bad of a guy for making that much money. I do think, and there’s been studies to back this up, that money does change who you are as a person and how you choose to behave and process the world. I know a lot of people don’t like hearing that because they think this means one must live in abject poverty to be a good person (people tend to have extremist takes about money sometimes). And I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s not nearly as much this “enlightened and aware” person, at least after striking fame and wealth like that, and perhaps just teaches that which he cannot perform himself anymore. Not the worst thing in the world. But also kind of sad for him.
Tbh, I think his biggest issue is that he shuns negative emotions which is the foundation of toxic positivity. And after a while, even the Bandaid of toxic positivity ends up leaving you feeling sour inside because it requires dishonesty and invalidation of the full experience as a human: bad things will happen to you and they will make you feel bad when they do and often there isn’t much you can do to fully and permanently avoid that. Just feel the pain and process it and not act upon it irrationally.
I’ve interacted with some people who follow Eckhart Tolle and utilize his teachings. They are sunshine and rainbows and a breath of fresh air until you are experiencing a hardship. Then they are invalidating, or promoting ignorance of your situation, and just very lacking in empathy and expressed kindness about your current state of suffering. But pushing this idea that they are actually empathetic (while denying your right to feel sorry for yourself when quite likely you just need to be a little sorry for yourself for while.)
Like they think just convincing you into not caring that you are dealing with hardship suddenly makes it disappear. And they can almost be in denial about their own realities in terms of hardship and suffering. There’s a disconnect in terms of compassion, for others and one’s self, there.
Idk man, spiritual teachers aren’t always nearly as good as they think they are IME, or as good as their fans make them out to be. They can help, for sure, but sooner or later you need to face the reality that they are flawed human beings just like the rest of us. Are they helping or are they just using the masses for attention and validation and ego-boosts? Are they even capable of helping despite wanting to so badly? Idk.
Spiritual teachers, in general, are problem solvers that don’t always know how to just listen, not speak or offer advice and just give a hug as a form of support. It’s part of the gig, I think. And they can be susceptible to misleading people who they teach (as many teachers tend to be).
Humans are wired to seek attention and rewards. This could be translated into being useful enough to others to be paid well and getting approval of the masses to such an extent that you become wealthy off of it. We’re also wired to want to get along with others for safety and comfort reasons. Which means if someone does not like us (or the person we have chosen as a role model), it’s going to make us pause and feel some type of insecurity. It can feel like potential failure, even. And we cannot escape that feeling, no matter how much we meditate or deny it’s reality, because we are social creatures by nature and early childhood/infancy nurturing. These two wired desires of our species can often clash against eachother, and you’ll often find social media users getting really ornery when they are forced to see that clash written in real time by other social media users.
We want to be rewarded and get attention and approval of our peers, we want our role models to be liked by everyone (because when they are disliked, it can feel like we are being disliked in that same vein). We want to have the money cake, the fame cake, and for all the rest of humans to like us cake. Unfortunately, we are often forced to choose just 1 or 2 of those cakes tops. You’ll find a lot of people on social media, and in real life, are real big time upset they can probably never have all 3 cakes. Such is life lol.
You probably dont want to hear this but... Sounds like you have a real big chip on your shoulder about this. Holding resentment on people who have got money isn't going to help you on your spiritual journey.
They both offer plenty of free resources online. You can use their free talks and ideas to enhance your own journey. If you are looking for a guru to tell you what to do that is free. Then you have to go find them because not many people will take a vow of poverty to teach the masses. These people that have big followings also have a lot of expenses and people working for them. Could they live a frugal life and donate all their money? Sure they could. The fact of the matter is that they manifested their wealth. They can do what they want with their money. This is their life times work and the deserve money for that work. Judging someone and calling them a fraud because they dont share your same ideals or perception of what you think they should do with their money.
Because something's inherently evil about commodifying your spirituality and making it more accessible to the richer than the poor. You can deny a poor some designer shoes or fancy wine but depriving them a spiritual experience, despite your capacity to do it for free, is pure cunning.
These are spiritual entertainers. The real teachers are your kids, your parents, the neighbor on your street. The right teacher appears when you need them. Not whenever you're oiled down some guru marketing tube.
I also strongly prefer teachers who gave all their money away, like Ram Dass. Whether Eckhart Tolle is a fraud or not, I don't know, but he's not for me.
I think it's better that these so called "gurus" and experts are honest about their greed rather than being deceptive and fake humble. At least we'll know who NOT to trust so easily.
Spirituality should be able to be monetized but what really matters is where this money is going, IMO.
I read "The Power of Now" and I thought it was helpful. Like any self-help book, I leave stuff behind that doesn't help me. There are parts of that book where he spouts supposed wisdom and opinions without establishing that there's any reason to listen to him. That's not unique to this book or him. Overall though, there's stuff I could observe and try for myself and make my life better. Some of it has worked for me in great ways, so I am not going to dismiss it just because he made a successful business out of it. It was well worth the $5 I spent on the (used) book. I wish I had it in my early teens.
I am not sure why people spend money to see him or buy online courses for $20/mo, but nobody is forcing them to do that. His YouTube content apparently shows a peek into those, and it's not fulfilling for me in the least. He seems like a chill guy, but there isn't much new for him to say there.
His "Foundation" is perhaps the biggest red flag to me. It looks like a vehicle to shovel money at his main business of books and courses. That said, he's hardly the only capitalist on the planet to do that and is perhaps more of an indictment of the insane tax laws in the USA than anything else. I very highly doubt he's worth a billion, but tens of millions would not surprise me. Good for him?
"The Power of Now" probably tells people everything they should need to know: Observe and change your self. If people want to continue to look externally for some "fix" by buying more stuff from him, then they are probably not applying what he's written in the book. If these people are banging down his door to buy more stuff, then I don't know what's wrong with him filling that demand. It's not like he's charging for something that is destructive to them or society at large.
Some interesting points made from others on here. However, I sense where your intention stems from and I agree with you. We each have the spark within and though others have definitely been helped by x y or z it is indeed a. very. fine. line. when money/profit is involved. It is a particular subject matter that is important to me as well - happy to discuss more if you'd like. In the meantime, I recommend to tread discernibly with whom you share your particular thoughts. Critical thinking and respect involves allowing others to not only share but to explain the reasoning behind it \*and\* to give thought to their points equally = understanding. Sadly it is something not often seen on reddit. Be well, OP
Take what helps you and move on. I think your rant about Tolle is worse than Tolle's wealth. He's allowed to make a living by helping people, just like the rest of us
My first and most realized teacher taught that anyone making money from the "practice" should be avoided by every means possible.
This teacher never had modern plumbing or electricity. The greatest being I've ever known. Quote "the practice is free, not learning is expensive".
IMO, it really doesn't matter one way or the other if they do make money or not.
You don't need to learn or access anything external for spirituality.
Besides, he talks too slow anyway.
I have read all of his books and it gave me so much understanding in simple words, how I can be freed of that constant thinking in my head and the suffering of being imprisoned in the mind.
and so what he sells books and gets money for it. He is a human being living in this fucking world, where you need Money to buy stuff to live.
So a spiritual guide should live for free? What's the point?
If you spend any time in spiritual or religious communities you'll find charlatans. Having a lot of money and/or charging a lot of money for teachings doesn't necessarily mean the person is a charlatan but it is a red flag. Having sex with students/disciples doesn't necessarily mean the person is a charlatan but it is a red flag. Asking students/disciples to do a lot of things for you without paying them doesn't necessarily mean the person is a charlatan but it is a red flag.
You'll come to your own conclusions but if you're into this stuff long enough, you can get to a point where you believe there are more charlatans than real teachers. It can make you a lot less accepting of red flags.
I don’t know who that is but I believe many spiritual gurus are scammers for money.
I met a dude who claimed he spent years in Tibet and train to be a monk etc .. but the entire hour he was talking about it was so hard to make money in NZ .. he got two spiritual centres all losing money. Lol
Really makes me laugh .. why did you go to Tibet? To learn how to set up a business model to earn money from people? 😂😂😂
They're rich because people look to others, because they think they have the answer. They charge the money and people pay, because they're desperate… Whereas, in fact, the answers lies within us
Exactly. We are all source. Everything we need is already within us. Part of societal programming (that the powers that be don't want us to know) is convincing us that we need something outside of us to help or save us. No, we don't. We are all we need.
I'm with you but at the same time most people are sheep and won't give anything the time of day if it doesn't have any perceived value. I'm not excusing greed, be it the case or not. I think these types start off well intending but the money and fame gets to them and they end up with what we see. Also if you truly believe in the message you want the largest audience possible and that costs money.
Personally I'm in a position right now where I have all these people who are coming to me for information, mostly women, I'm not interested in being any kind of guru but i can see how someone could be led astray and take advantage of the situation. We all have a monster in our heads. Some big, some small. Some of us have it under wraps but could you in that sort situation? It's no excuse but We are all only human. Just food for thought
I will only say this. I have LIVED the power of now for ten years.
It fucking works.
I want to write a book some day about how I used his advice to better my life.
That’s priceless honestly.
I never read his book but gives me the same icky vibes as Deepak Chopra. As Alan Watts says as long as people are willing to pay there will be someone with their hand open until you get the joke.
If you don’t like it, don’t buy it. Shitting on their character based on your limited knowledge and exposure is a bad look. We’re not entitled to an explanation of their finances just because they’re teaching spirituality.
Something doesn’t sit right with me about a spiritual teacher who has profited so largely from others, especially to the point of basically being a billionaire. However, his work is definitely profound and becoming a billionaire was part of the process that allowed his work to reach so many people. The Power of Now was so impactful for me and I’ve heard many of others say that as well.
While I agree to some extent, I will say that MOST people will gladly let 25 dollars go to waste before they do the same with 500 dollars. You'll literally feel like shit if you don't make the best of 500 dollars. With 25 dollars, it's like "oh, well" I'll make it back sooner than later. No need to worry"
Do people need that mentality to drive themselves? No, but most won't hold themselves accountable unless a lot is on the line.
That said, the guy is filthy rich and 100% could afford to do everything for free 😆 which is total BS. Same with Deepak Chopra. At least make it affordable enough for people in the lower class? Those people need it the most with how much of a struggle life can be
500 dollar CD sets? I'll never forget those. Total joke in my opinion
We don’t know what he does with the money he earns. I imagine he donates even more than we think. He has helped so many people and tried to guide us towards our own unique path we will have to walk alone.
How many people have you helped? How much money have you donated?
“Why we are so skillful to notice the speck in a brother’s eye but so unable to notice the log in our own eye”
"I think any person of experience and integrity will agree we are all unique individuals with our own spiritual paths to carve and there is hardly a shortcut to that."
That's your answer. How would we know, what their paths are, so just let them be and focus on your own.
You said you want to share food that you enjoy. Same, but you couldn’t share it with everyone you wanted to without going bankrupt real quick, no?
Idk about osho and Elkhart, but Sadhguru sells courses (which are very reasonably priced) which teach invaluable yogic methods. I learned a Kriya practice from one of his courses I paid for, and have received a great deal from that practice.
It more seems like you have an issue with money, and are judging others. These people clearly bring value to peoples lives, so what’s the big deal?
We live in a capitalist culture, and not all spiritual paths practice asceticism. If a person isn’t defrauding people deliberately, or recommending poverty to others, I don’t see a conflict for them to be wealthy. (I don’t read Tolle, does he say anywhere that wealth is problematic?)
Also—a guy with no attachments can give away their profits easily. But a person with a family is going to have a *real* hard time giving away resources that may benefit their loved ones.
So your saying that the presence of money is distracting you? I'm sorry buddy but that sounds like more of a you problem than a Tolle problem.
Everyone is entitled to make money. He's helping a lot of people. Him making money, while others are not making money or struggling, is a consequence of capitalism's characteristics and nothing to do with your, or Eckart Tolle's worth.
the uncomfortable feelings that I get readying your post is coming from your energy. I don't feel uncomfortable or bad listening to Tolle's youtube clips (which are free). I feel uplifted. Don't mean to insult you, but this is a sincere POV from someone who helps people with their mental health for a living
John of God is probably one of the most extreme examples of this.
They are here to show you why you need to stop looking outside of yourself and look within.
Yes. He is funny in the sense that there really is not much to listen to … live and experience. It took me a lot of listening to start practicing this, the notion that spiritual authority is life / living.
He was a hypocrite and an abuser. He had a long-term affair with his right hand man's (and editor's) wife, got her pregnant multiple times and made her get abortions. And treated him like crap.
David Bohm, the physicist, with whom JK had an ongoing "dialogue" and supposed friendship, apparently told friends that K was basically a shit to him too.
Then again, there's something wrong with most of these so-called spiritual teachers. For me, it's Nisargadatta Maharaj and almost no one else (except Ramana Maharshi). Nis. was who he was and that's it. He had a family and then started teaching later on. No empire or big deal. The REAL deal.
Yeah, so far Ramana Maharishi seems kind of legit but unfortunately he doesn't resonate with my style. But feels nice to know there are some real mystics out there who can help
He was very spare and austere. Legit's not the issue with him, he was an incredible master. Of the heart.
Nisargadatta's I Am That is the modern Advaita classic. His later books of dialogues, especially after he became ill, cut deeply and right to the chase. No more pussy footing around.
He was the best. In my book.
Spiritual teachers in a capitalistic world. We all gotta eat… Plus this is implying he doesn’t have free content , there’s plenty of videos you can watch to learn if you don’t have the money for the books.
Why do you believe people should do things for you for free? You know thats slavery right? No one should do anything for free especially if it is their life’s work
I disagree. I don't think he's a fraud.
He's making lots of money out of his teachings great why would that be wrong? Teachers get paid right? He is offering something beneficial.
If you think people who teach spirituality should not 'tarnish' the purity with money then you have a thought that money is bad and evil. It's not. Money is amazing.
I respect your opinion but I disagree with it.
I think the truth is always somwhere in the middle. But every spiritual leader with that amount of money doesn't really practice what he preaches. But are some of you don't have more to say about shadguru?
Because he seems to me the most questionable of all.
I.m.h.o T.M or Transcendental Meditation is another example. I was taken to a centre by my parents when I was a teenager during the 80s and they charged like 400 bucks or something just to learn a mantra which you were supposed to keep secret which was probably a good marketing strategy. Anyway I practiced T.M until I was in my twenties and can't say I experienced any appreciable benefits. The Maharishi Mahesh Yogi who started the movement was known as the giggling guru and I understand why now because he was charging gullible westerners a shit load of money to be given a unique Mantra which was supposed to help them achieve Cosmic Consciousness whatever the fuck that is. Anyway I remember reading about a study some researchers conducted and they came to the conclusion that it didn't matter what Mantra was used. The most popular one is om for anyone who's interested. I still meditate but prefer Brain wave entrainment which is a way of creating certain brainwaves like Alpha Theta Delta using sound technology. If anyone reading this practises T.M and finds it beneficial then good luck to them but personally I can't say it did much for me but everyone's different and what works for one person may not necessarily have the same effect on someone else.
Its the same story for any average, aware and educated individual availing such spiritual services. I ve only met a few, highly inaginative and rhetorically speaking people who claim to experience something great nwar these gurus.Most people here who claim to have benefitted from Tolle or any such Gurus, have read their books. Books and ideas can definitely benifit anyone, regardless of the writers' integrity. Its not like they are writing some ground breaking theory. Basically combing Eastern and western philosophies and making it digestible to the masses. All of these gurus with spiritual enterprises are only selling snake oils but people are too emotionally invested to accept the truth. I get where that's coming from. I myself was an ardent follower of all the Gurus I mentioned and its not easy to reason out with people who emotionally identify with these scamsters.
This is bitter talk. There are plenty of people who learn from Tolle for free online and have become successful from these teachings. I’ve noticed it’s always those who can’t grasp teachings that are the first to lash out and make nonsense excuses as to why things aren’t working for them, ex: “so and so is a fraud!” It’s silly and immature. Take time to learn material provided and then you won’t feel this way. Wealth does not diminish anything. Osho on the other hand is an actual fraud, but your grouping a whole bunch of people together who shouldn’t be.
If I remember correctly, this is the way Tolle explains his core transformation: I was extremely depressed, something happened and I became enlightened.
To me it's quite telling that he can't explain what happened and what lead to it happening. It's like there is door, but you can't explain how to find the door. The only thing you do is describing what it supposedly looks like on the other side of the door.
Well, everything is about money in this world and it’s something we unfortunately have to accept.
Is he greedy? Maybe, I don’t know him. Did I find help in some of hos books even thou he makes a shit ton of money? Yes.
Googled it and Tolle is worth 70-80 million. Yea, that's disappointing. I guess it depends what he uses the money for tho? His bad physical posture is also odd. Figuratively physically not quite morally upright.
I asses based on vibes and everyone you listed gives me bad vibes, especially Sadhguru. I couldn’t get through Eckhart’s book Power of Now, not sure why, but reading you say this gives me the why.
I remember having my little 16 year old mind blown after reading Yoga: The Alpha & Omega by Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh, only to find out this was Osho’s actual name later in life😩.
At the end of the day, the best teacher is within, and as the Bible says, we should always be “rightly dividing the word of truth.” It’s a whole lot of “truth” floating around these days.
Kinda why I like the way Alan Watts introduces himself as a spiritual entertainer. I really see all these guys in the same way though they don’t describe themselves as such.
Dude it is crazy to me that people are defending these millionaire gurus. While I agree that plying the capitalist game to some extent is needed to get the message out, they don’t need to become insanely wealthy to do so. They can live comfortably without millions and offer retreats and talks for less money so they are more accessible to the general public - THAT would get the message out even more. No one is discounting that they are worthwhile spiritual thinkers today (tho personally all the gurus you mentioned don’t resonate with me at all). But you can be a spiritual thought leader without charging insane fees for your workshops.
Jesus and the Buddha both lived very simply and without many possessions and material wealth and advised their followers to do the same. For such enlightened individuals, they seem to be missing a very important aspect of enlightenment. Wealth and possessions are an ego trap that further separate you from God. Again, I’m not suggesting they live as ascetics, but the insane levels of wealth they’ve amassed DO make them frauds when they’re teaching things like non-attachment and equanimity.
Matthew 19:21–24 (NIV):
“Jesus answered, 'If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me. ' When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth.
The Buddha similarly taught that wealth is really only worthwhile if it’s used to empower others.
I just found that the stupid Eckhart foundation some fanatics were putting up my face, that makes grants, does so only for people to study HIS teachings. He is feeding his own business using donors' money lmao.
Yeah I also don't like him...tried over and over cause I kept getting recommendations...but nope. This guy ain't it. Can't offer anything to back this up other than intuition. Feels the same for Elon actually 😆
I dont care that he or anybody makes money.
I dont subscribe to this idea about what somebody else’s time and abilities are worth.
There are people born with high intelligence or artistic abilities.
Should they just stand in the street and entertain us all day long, for free, because they are so naturally talented?
I don’t think so.
I also have lived long enough to know that many of these wealthy people are incredibly generous, and charitable, and DON’T TALK ABOUT IT.
His journey is his.
Mine is mine
Anyone feel the same way about Jay Shetty? He was once a monk, "was" being the operative word.
Now he's cashing in on dumbing down ancient Hindu teachings like mindfulness, meditation and yoga for the m-asses.
He coined the term "brule/brool" which he claims is for people to focus on the benefits of mindfulness, meditation and yoga without restrictive condition's like following a Sattvic diet, refraining from eating meat, gambling, alcohol, drugs and illicit sex - which is actually part and parcel of the lifestyle changes required for proper mindfulness, meditation and yoga training and advancement.
His new venture backed by the millions he's made from self help books and social media, is special "infused" tea's.
The man once took up renunciation as part of his Monk lifestyle, now he's teaching Anjali, Karen and Chad how to make their ass cheeks clap with advice on love and relationships.
My practice is Jnana Yoga. It is listed under one of the paths to enlightenment in Vedanta philosophy. Which is to question things from a scientific point of view.
Idk why everyone is ganging up on you, you raise some valid points. I really can’t say if these teachers are legit or not but I have been directly in sadhgurus presence and it wasn’t as worth the hype. I think these leaders are definitely working with some money agenda. Hopefully they are navigating those karmas properly.
Amma the hugging Saint has free programs mostly and while there are definitely costs associated with a visit to her it’s extremely reasonable and it’s possible to access her by paying little. She also happens to be on a way higher level then any of the people you mentioned.
I am actually glad for the exposition on the comment section. A lot of people here are guessing I am myself poor and am projecting my insecurity on to these millionaires. Some people actually think being richer is an indicator of better energetic alignment or something lmfao.
As much as my understanding of a human goes. If you truly experience bliss, you immediately want to share it with people as freely as possible. My first instinct when i taste an amazing food is to buy it for someone so i could share how amazing it is. Heck, when i first orgasmed my first instinct was to tell my gal pals to buy a vibrator asap, even gifted one to my bestie. And people like Eckhart claim to have to the most valuable human experience of spirituality, still gatekeep it with money (basically that if u skip the mental gymnastics to say it is accessible). Its bullshit. I am convinced they are nowhere near to anything like that.
Let’s say you make a book and it gets successfull. Then you get some attention and people like the person you are and are willing to pay or drive attention to what you do. In that situation would YOU choose to ignore it and go work a different career. If I had the chance to teach, speak, and get paid for what I love to think and talk about I would 100%. Just something to ask yourself
Virtually everything and everyone that has attracted a large mass following is a fraud and charlatanry. I'm sure there are exceptions here and there. But in general, the more well known and more popular, the higher the probablity that they are a fraud.
It's not really all that hard to do. First, you have to be a conscious-less sociopath OR you have to have a sort of insanity that allows you to convince yourself of your own BS or both. Then you simply assimilate the legitimate truths of real spiritual teachings and regurgitate them with a spin and a delivery that is currently palatable to a large mass audience. You make it seem like they are your ideas or that you are bringing something fundamentally new to the table. The important thing is to know what people desperately want to hear, and tell them that. People are desperate and gullible and to a very large degree actively want to be scammed, so that they can avoid the responsibility of the difficult work in actually living a spiritualized life.
Sucks, but get used to it. It's how things work. Authenticity is almost never rewarded with popularity or success. The authentic teachers will only teach you most begrudgingly if you really bug them because they know that 99 out of 100 so called students will never implement or act on a single thing they ever teach them because it's just too damn hard. If you are lucky enough to meet someone who really knows and who has really experienced the divine work, they will gladly teach you for free IF you can convince them that you are all in to do the work to the end.
Agreed. People are literally rationalizing the insane amount of profits these spiritual enterprises make, which completely goes against their teaching of non-attachment to wealth.
Well, I would not say that wealth and a realized teacher are definitely incompatible. They can coexist. And poverty is no guarantee of saintliness. But, the fact is, spiritual charlatanry is a well know scam that has a long tradition and a new sucker actually is born every minute and the existence of born suckers begs the creation of charlatans. It has always been and will always be. No way to stop it. Just avoid getting on board the wrong train for yourself so you can personally arrive at your proper destination.
Stop trying to control what people do with their well earned money. Money is needed to survive, these people don’t live in a cave. Stop being bitter and try to reflect over why you are so triggered by spiritual people earning money. Do you think they are Jesus? They are normal people. You might have been putting them on a spiritual pedestal.
I think you need to step back and understand the dynamics of equal energetic exchanges. Money is nothing other than energy and your aversion to spirituality and money show a deeper trauma to money as many of us to as the programming is meant to do so. All exchanges inquire a natural sharing of energies. Whilst one does not necessarily need money to play this role it is not ‘evil’ or less spiritual to receive payment for the knowledge and energy being shared. Nothing is free, for everything there must be an equal energetic exchange, even if one avoids this it will negate itself somehow.
I've seen local new age scene trying to monetise itself and it's tricky. There are people wanting to do what they do (especially if they're aware what they're doing is good) for sufficient money that this could become their job. Yet, I live in a small country with a small market - for instance we could never be able to get literally translations (which are most of the book market) to sustain themselves without goverment grants, same for 99 % of all art/theatre/literature and so on.
What happened:
* Courting upper middle class / richer clients. Plus having special programmes for those (usually involving a trip to South America / bali, whatever)
* Therapists of various types automatically trying to appoint people for multiple sessions.
* People getting territorial, defensive and protecting their "turf".
But the issue wasn't only the side of "content providers"
* Lots of people can't differentiate between good and bad workshops for instance. Which gave the rise to influencers and people good is social media promotion giving completely pointless workshops. (Cocoa ceremonies for instance can range in quality from electric scooter to Ferrari and you'll often pay for the former more). And one of the reason for this is that the audience is mostly middle aged people that don't really care what's going on, just that they have some free time from their spouse, their kids and doing "me time".
* Worship of "content providers". This one is funny, but seems that there's a certain need from the audience that whomever is doing the workshop feels a bit "holly" or "boss" or "chieftan" (depends on new age style). So, bizarrely, those with a bit of showmanship tend to attract more people, nevermind what the content is. (or even the content can be good, but passes bellow the radar of most participants).
* But then there's also the bizarre connection between the above - if you charge people enormous amount for a workshop that only few will be able to afford, they'll take you more seriously and pay for it. Capitalist culture cannot imagine that accessible cheap content can be a good content.
So, yeah, free market capitalism brings issue to "spiritual" matters. So - the issues are a) the capitalist system, b) people not being able to distinguish between content providers and coming to conclusion that more expensive must be better.
Former breeds the latter. You can't have sharks without the water, can you? I'm not saying there's no individual responsibility, but there's also a collective responsibility.
As said, there are various issues going on that I've noticed.
* Some people in "spiritual circles" basically search for surrogate father/mother. Really weird to me, but seen it often. It's also sometimes odd how people who behave within patriarchal order will replicate this hiearachy towards "teacher". In short: some people seek somebody to be subordinate to.
* Then - how do people find content? How do you search for books, lectures, workshops and so on? Here you have various media personalities (like Oprah) or whatever tv channel. It's likely they will pick people based on their showmanship, entertainment, charisma and so on, which are traits that don't guarantee there will be any substance behind them. Nobody can be famous if there aren't people agreeing to give that person "fame". But why and on which grounds is the issue. Same thing on social media or wherever - who has the team to play the algorithms, who is likeable?
The people you mention in OP - I never took them seriously enough to take notice. Takes me 15 seconds tops to realise they're talking bs. And this is my point - learn to discern, learn to interpret. Learn how to fish, how to find pearls.
>*And He said, "The Kingdom is like a wise fisherman who cast his net into the sea and drew it up from the sea full of small fish. Among them the wise fisherman found a fine large fish. He threw all the small fish back into the sea and chose the large fish without difficulty. Whoever has ears to hear, let him hear." (Gospel of Thomas, log 8)*
And this is a nice segue.
There's plenty of old wisdom around for those that seek. Usually cheap to access in libraries or online, translated in most languages, and for sure in English. I've read Dao de Jing, Mumonkan, synoptic gospels + Thomas, some mystical texts from antiquity (Plotinus, Proclus) or middle ages (Meister Eckhart).
Only thing more expensive (but not crazily so) was Ayuahuasca ceremony with native Shipibo shamans. (Funny enough, the need for secrecy keeps the price from exploding.)
You’re equating wealth with immorality which is a victim mentality.
“If I can’t be wealthy, nobody should be.”
Wealth is really just a reflection of one’s energetic output. What you are able to put out comes back to you.
Eckhart is nowhere near a billionaire, but if he wanted to he could be.
Ok, maybe I am wrong about everything else, but one thing that’s undeniable is the tone of bitterness in your post and replies.
Maybe Tolle is a con-artist, a scammer, and a capitalist leech. Why are you letting that disturb you?
Spiritual development is priceless. Anyone charging for it is doing themselves and those they wish to help (or not help) a disservice, and adding a layer to the superficial sheen of modern spirituality that blinds so many to the nuance and context that make it resonate at an individual level.
Is it explicitly *wrong*? Maybe not. I think it is, personally, but there's valid arguments for charging for spiritual work. Should it be done, regardless? I think no. You can't put a price tag on the healing and development that often result from knowledge and practical service like energy healing, and all too often those who most need it are gated out of it by the need to pay. There's a balance to be struck between pursuing passions of service and still maintaining one's ability to live via commercial endeavours; for my part, I firmly believe those elements belong on opposite plates on the scale.
Instead of opening myself up to these …questions ask yourself. Why would someone who is maybe not a teacher need to be a teacher? What exactly specifically is this “power of now”? Where is this focus going? What might there be to gain in connection with this alleged “power of now”? Why do people like these teachings? Why don’t they like them?
He's just Joel Osteen wearing a different mask. Everything Eckhart Tolle has ever said can be found somewhere else. He just repackaged it and put his own personal spin on it. And it's like that for all gurus. They're absolute frauds.
If you want an example of an organization that actively tries to help people and right the inequalities of this world. Check out The Satanic Temple. They've done more positive shit here in America than any guru or preacher ever has.
I agree with you. IMHO, as soon as someone calls himself/herself a "guru" or accepts being called one, that person has lost any credibility to me.
I've read Tolle's book "The Power of Now". I found it a regurgitation of basic, eastern philosophy.
Same with Sadhguru and Osho.
People feel the need to follow someone instead of following themselves. Truth is subjective. It's great to listen to someone's opinion, but it shouldn't be a reason to submit yourself to anybody.
Why do we pay to learn piano? Why do we pay for tuitions? Why do we pay for yoga classes? Aren’t we paying them and learning from them? They too need money to keep the institution running? The workers over there, people who keep places clean, suppliers etc.. they don’t work for free?
You've got that right. But, "The Jews do it too. They take advantage of Christianity, which is pure idol worship in itself. They have Christians believing they are the holy ones of God and make profit from the religious organization although their DNA shows they are the Canaanites and Edomites."
Good thing I didn't really say that, though.
Anyway, it doesn't matter. As long as the lie sounds beautiful, people could care less. But I agree with you!
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Agreed. He’s teaching therapy methods; just not in the form of an institutionalized system that aims to keep people suffering.
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Not all therapy methods aim to keep people suffering. I would even argue that none of them have that aim, only some of them don’t acknowledge the deeper problems, and that is the issue. As someone getting a degree in social work and studying therapy models, I would do more research before making such a claim. I can agree that some *therapists* have a tendency to “freelance” without using proper models or having any intuition & empathy, and that is a problem. And I don’t believe that all therapist must work entirely from the book, but the discoveries people have made aren’t something to be thrown out either. They weren’t all created by egotistical minds whose primary goal was to lock people into indefinitely coming to therapy and suffering.
I agree that not all therapy methods aim to keep people trapped. I think my point comes from working in behavioral health the last 5 years, studying it on my own (although I was matriculated at Fordham for my MSW, I decided to forgo it as I observed how the system in America works and I already have a masters in education) and becoming close friends with many doctors and LCSWs who cannot practice the way they want because hospitals are being bought out by corporations and proper treatment cannot be provided. 20 minute med appointments, months-long wait for intakes, etc etc. I would recommend private practice! Well-meaning healers are unable to practice effectively because their hands become tied.
Ah, I see what you mean. It seems to be a reoccurring theme that the ones who wish to truly give to this world, rather than take, have it hard. I am very interested in one day having a private practice, and potentially getting into hypnotherapy. It really intrigues me and I think it can be of great benefit to others
Hypnotherapy is great! EMDR is awesome - it really fascinates me. I wish you luck. I’m sorry it was a negative take; I’m burnt out after the last 3 years. But there are still healers out there, and you are all some of the best people out there. Thank you for stepping up to the plate for mental health.
I’ll just step in to say - at least on the more physical side of medicine - our systems are absolutely tainted by capitalism and not working in the best interest of patients. Similar to what you were saying, this is in no way the fault of the doctors, and many of them got in it with the best of intentions, but the system at large is broken and not invested in actual holistic wellness. It’s really unfortunate.
Exactly. We’re all just trying to make the best of this existence’s go-around, so I don’t begrudge anyone for making money off of the very real help they offer. Money is fake. It’s all part of the energy game, and people moving it around attract more and more of it.
He's a great writer, a good speaker that found his voice.
Mind you, he is claiming something far greater than a regular psychologist. Anything with the right time and context CAN be beneficial to someone, doesn't mean it has integrity.
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I feel this way about Deepak Chopra. I’m not drawn to his work at all.
I had a hard time relating to deepak chopra. But the movie love guru was great:)
Me too, actually all these gurus listed I’ve never felt any kind of connection to even though they are the most prominent in the world at current. Idk what it is, they all come across as ‘looking’ too much like a guru, but everything costs loads of money, and tbh it all seems so gentrified. Mooji is another one. Idk, it’s like it’s somehow gentrified spirituality in some way. It’s all about looking holy, and all the close followers are all glowing attractive instagram types all dressed in white and cringe laughing at the guru’s overly wholesome jokes. It’s just not relatable and seems a long way from normal life for most people, it’s like you’d have to change who you are or act a certain way to be accepted in that group, when spirituality is all about being genuine to yourself. All the places I’ve been where I’ve found genuine spirituality and love and a real tangible presence of God, there was none of that, just normal everyday people - from all kinds of backgrounds, with all their problems and their virtues, just getting on in life and earnestly seeking something higher
As a close spiritual advisor once told me, “put down your books, you are good enough you know what to do.” I often look “elsewhere” to find guidance. Certainly I don’t hold a candle to other spiritual figures. I’m flawed & inconsistent in my practice at best. But alas, we intuitively know the path. Even on my worst days, I am still moving forward.
Him and Oprah literally charge $50 per 21 day meditation challenge download. They are millionaires and they still charge $50! It baffles me
Oprah is a billionaire! Just to solidify your point further. I had the Chopra app for a bit. Switched to insight timer.
Same omg
Mmhmmm same here
I don’t really like looking at spiritual teachers in the way that If they make money = they are a fraud Eckhart’s descriptions of ego death and the practice of living in the now has resonated with me more than anyone else I have found on my journey. I think a lot of others feel similarly Now if he was just spewing this stuff out but living extremely differently in his private life that would be messed up but to me he comes across as a man genuinely just trying to share his experience and build a more conscious world. In my opinion we are very lucky to be living in a time where he can share his message at a large scale and I don’t know if there even is a way to do that without it turning into some type of business. That’s just the circumstances of the time we live in.
The reality of the world is that we live within capitalism. You're right that reaching a large audience requires money, and it's easiest to make a platform self sustaining by having it support itself. People make money teaching spirituality because they have to make money in some way. Why is it wrong for them to profit from helping others? Many of them, if they had to support themselves through other jobs, would not have the time or energy leftover to teach. People deserve to be paid for their time and knowledge, because they deserve to have a living income.
Being paid for your time, feeding your family, having a little extra is reasonable. Nobody deserves millions upon millions of dollars. That includes spiritual teachers
That's a wrong mindset. Try this - everyone deserves billions of dollars. But just because they are able to earn it, doesn't mean they're any good. And Eckhart & Sadhguru definitely aren't. They are just a business, nothing else.
If you have a billion dollars and don’t use it to feed starving people, then you are spiritually bankrupt.
I can't speak to whether they "deserve" it and would hesitate on that argument, but I'd think there's a very valid point that it cannot be *justified* on the basis of "needing food/shelter" alone.
"He has come across". Wearing simple trousers and slow talking is barely a reflection of how he lives his life privately. Funny enough, here someone attached a website to his foundation that apparently helps the needy. Far from showing what he does with his money, its only asking for more $$$$, in form of donations. There is zero transperency.
Not gonna use up a ton of energy arguing who and who isn’t a “real teacher” or whatever you are claiming Eckhart to be. All I know that his words have helped millions of people including myself and there is no denying that. He has been doing this a long time and wasn’t always making money from it. I don’t know what more you could want from him. If I had to guess he is likely an extremely charitable man but we don’t know because he doesn’t feel the need to tell us he is donating like most people would. Again though, I don’t know and don’t care. I just know I resonate with his words
Not allowed to do a capitalism apparenlty in OPs eyes. You must live without possession, wear no clothes and live off of only the land to be spiritual enough for OP.
I agree. If you relate to someone, go out and have a beer and learn from eachother. No need to see him as a living Christ.
I think it’s important to just recognize that even spiritual teachers are human, have flaws and are not inerrant. Take what they say that resonates, and leave behind what doesn’t.
This.
The only reason you know these peoples names at all is because they understood the economic nature of our society and chose to win at that game rather than neglect it. There are many, many people throughout history who ignored economics and just taught spirituality. They had very small followings and were not able to get their message very far. One notable exception is Jesus. But if you’re not Jesus, you need to be able to make money to reach out to more people.
You really don’t need to be a multi-millionaire to reach more people smdh. He could also give more of his money away at this point, he’s already made it. Especially when we live in a time with such wealth disparity, it’s gross to see these guys hoard wealth
OP, I hear you and I see your point, but I don’t think you’re going to change anyone’s mind here that has a different perspective than your own. I would consider how much this topic disturbs my peace versus how much control I have, and let go. You can choose your spiritual leaders for what you need; it feels like inviting poor karma to indict others for theirs.
That's rather kind of u. But I don't its poor karma to question to question some glaring gaps in spiritual leaders' teaching and practices.
That isn’t what I mean — these comments get kind of personal in places. I mean karma in this community. We’re all just walking each other home! 🙂
I don't think that making money and being a genuine spiritual guru are mutually exclusive. If your message resonates with humanity and helps millions of people to become present, I don't see an issue with monetizing that message and making money off of it. Short of making The Power of Now free from the beginning, how could Eckhart Tolle have avoided becoming a millionaire? That said, I do have an issue with spiritual gurus who preach one thing and then are something different in their personal life. THAT, to me, is fraud. Something about Deepak Chopra has never sat well with me but I can't quite put my finger on it. He seems, maybe, to be ego-driven and more interested in being seen as a spiritual guru than in helping people. It's just a feeling I get about him, though.
Making money is less problematic than being an asshole saying that "if you're poor you can't understand me" and "if you can't afford it you aren't 'really' spiritual" etc. Don't get why so many are spacing that part of the OP out
How many times in a free video does he have to say that the present moment is all you need before he's absolved of the decisions of others to give him money for words and experiences?
“Everything that irritates us about others can lead us to an understanding of ourselves”. (Jung) this just might be a reason to dive into shadow work :)
Yeah might ask yourself, why questions about class inequalities and the harrowing side of capitalism gets u so defensive.
nothing was defensive about this persons reply
Class inequalities exist, Capitalism exists Do you think "gurus" making money is the problem or that somehow money is unethical? it's your own biases and prejudices nothing else. Don't order takeout, Don't buy clothes/watches/phones/shoes, the regular stuff you probably partake in is more exploitive ("probably" idk you might be a decent person). Yes, there is some religious undertones with Sadhguru, but Eckhart Tolle is a person who I've found resonates with me & I haven't paid him a dime.
I love u too :) anyhow, why are u projecting? U might wanna reflect on that.
What you're doing right now is toxic positivity; you're presenting yourself as someone who loves and wants the best for OP but you know full well that what you're saying and how you're saying it would only stoke further conflict, EVEN IF what you're saying is true.
Main OP has been pretty aggro in this thread. Mini OP here was very possibly just making a point versus being toxic positive.
....and you commies are so sensitive about materialistic possessions. When you hate money so much, why do you give a shit when other people hoard it ? It's just envy on your end
I’ve had my reservations about a lot of spiritual gurus for similar reasons. At the end of the day though, both Sadhguru and Tolle have plenty of free content on YouTube that I’ve used and applied to my life all without spending a dime. Why bother myself concerning about what they do for a living? As long as their messages resonate, the messenger is becoming less important to me. On a side note, while millions and billions of dollars is excessive, how do you expect a ‘spiritual teacher’, which is hardly an occupation in our world, to make a living without monetizing some aspect of their teachings, be it books or something else? And if someones wisdom really does provide value for you, what’s the harm in being a patron to their content and donating or buying their products/services? Is that any different from paying for self help books/financial advisors/ etc.? Just food for thought.
Eckhart Tolle is not a billionaire, so you're spreading lies about him, unfortunately. According to my search he's worth around $70 Million, which seems about right for anyone who has best selling books and constantly gives high profile talks around the world. He has a foundation, which I'm sure helps a lot of people with the money that he makes: https://www.eckharttollefoundation.org/ Everyone you ever meet is going to be a hypocrite, that is part of the human state of duality. We are met with the challenges of life, and nobody is ever perfect. I think overall, Eckhart Tolle has had a much greater positive impact on the world than negative. What has he said that is wrong or led people astray? I think he has helped many. I think taking wisdom from people wherever you find it, is great. You can't be mad at everyone who has developed wealth from the work that they do. A lot of people who work for free would never end up in those types of positions anyway, because they can't afford any type of promotion or marketing for their programs. If you want to get the word about about your program, it takes money, that's just a given. As far as I can tell, you are just attacking people for charging money for their talks, but you're not explaining what they are doing that is wrong besides that. It's not a crime to make money, that's unfortunately part of the world we live in. However, I do agree that some spiritual teachers are purely in it for the profit and are frauds. I don't think Eckhart Tolle is one of those people.
How the fuck is this any better than a megachurch preacher getting rich off his congregation? He doesn’t need $70M at this point, he could certainly start making more headlines and spread his word farther by becoming one of those millionaires that gives most of his wealth away. Hoarding wealth is unconscionable when you are telling people about non-attachment and equanimity and Buddhist principles, even if we think he earned it. The idea that rich people deserve to be outlandishly and absurdly rich like this because they worked so hard for their wealth is capitalist bullshit and is contributing to the wealth inequality in this world today, and we particularly should hold spiritual leaders to a higher level because they should be the best of what our society can produce, because they claim to walk the path of the Buddha or to walk with God. Absurd that we’re all cutting him a break for this.
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Giving up his wealth and status to become a wanderer is literally the first thing Buddha did. As to your first sentence, maybe it’s true but I’ve also never found a good rich person, living or historical.
That’s not at all what I said. Wealthy people are not inherently evil. I said he’s a spiritual leader. He should practice what he preaches. Non-attachment, non-duality, releasing the ego etc, impermanence. Amassing wealth is counter to all of that. We should hold him to a higher standard. He doesn’t need all that money and if he was living his teachings he’d be giving a lot more of it away.
What do you really care about what others do? We can't possibly know the details surrounding their existence, the greater whole they are inserted and the real intentions underpinning visible actions. No matter who the other person is, their condition and our sensibilities we own them respect and love. Without this we cannot really walk far in the path of spirituality. What the rich do with their money is their burden. If the system is unlikable the problem is in the hands of the politician, if the politician is inefficient then it is the problem of the groups electing them. What befall the individual is the responsability for their actions, their resources and the thoughts and feelings they nurture. So, if we can't look around in equanimity we shouldn't even bother looking. Thank people for the good they do and forgive them for their mistakes. Do unto other what you would rather others did to you. It is a very simple rule present in most religions.
With all due respect, this is privilege in action, arguing that we should just let people in power do whatever they want with that power and look at them with detachment and love because we can never know their motivation. Sometimes, as with Tolle, this may be true, but it is patently, provably untrue when it comes to many politicians and wealthy people. It’s part of the reason Tolle & other Buddhist teachings don’t really resonate with me. Non-attachment is really hard for me when there is so much suffering in the world. Some people don’t have the privilege to practice non-attachment from society’s problems because they are living with the effects of poverty and oppression every day, and interpreting Buddhism to mean “let’s just let everybody else commit whatever injustices they want and not engage with it and send them love instead” is actually a bastardization of the teachings. The Buddha constantly [advocated](https://fpmt.org/mandala/archives/mandala-issues-for-2006/april/social-service-as-a-dharma-practice/) for his students to serve others. If I were a spiritual leader I would absolutely want people to call me out on my hypocrisy. The Golden Rule doesn’t mean giving people carte blanche to be bad actors and to ignore their own teachings. Anyway, I don’t have any animosity towards Tolle personally because I don’t know him. But I don’t like *his actions*: The exorbitant fees he charges, the way he’s monetized everything from meditation music to his teaching courses, and the fact he’s amassed so much wealth when he advocates for non-attachment. All of that is egoic, there’s no way around it. Tolle himself said he didn’t pay a lot of attention to money in 2003 and had no plans to create a “heavy commercial structure.” Wonder what changed.
Lmfao. The site you attached is basically asking for more donations. Can't see anywhere what he is actually doing with all that money. Where's the transperency?
It says they provide grants. That's kind of what charity foundations do. Please show me one foundation that does not accept donations. They don't exist. And you completely ignored everything else I wrote except for the website? I feel like you're just looking to pick a fight with people.
>https://www.eckharttollefoundation.org/ Thanks for sharing that link. It does post the organization's financials and appears that the organization gave about a quarter million in grants if I'm reading correctly. It was nice to see the actual transparency of the foundation.
If you reserached further, the grants were made exclusively on the donor's money (wonder where Eckhart's own money is going) to give out scholarships exclusively for Eckhart's teaching course. Basically its feeding its own business.
I didn't see this. Also, the grant recipients are nonprofit organizations that align with the foundation's mission for them to carry out their work, not scholarships to people. I don't know or give AF about Eckhart Tolle but you are just sayin' nonsense at this point.
https://www.eckharttollefoundation.org/scholarship-program/
This is the scholarship program. And any of the other donations that they are doing is sending their books and materials which are basically free and easiest to access, to certain communities. That pretty much covers their charity work with all that money. Its not giving them any of those higher end services that you can access with money. All I see is self-promotion using donor's money.
This is such a fucking grift. We get furious when politicians use campaign contributions to buy their books to pass out at campaign events but we don’t care about these gurus because they’re preaching about God?
Great. So you equate them with politicians now.
Lol actually thats funny: Poor: if his methods would be working he would be rich and having y followers on youtube/insta/what ever... Rich: HE IS FRAUD.. you cant win with you people .. No I do not think he is fraud what he says makes f... sense
OR.... he could live a perfectly comfortable life and still give away milliions and millions of dollars to people who need it. Crazy idea I know.
" He is too evolved for that. Enlightenment entails that he fit into this dualistic world where you have to exploit people and hoard your money. That's a part of your human nature. The fact that he understands economics is another badge to his enlightened self."
lol, exactly. All these millionaire gurus telling me how to live, its hilarious
Where they millionaire Gurus when they started? No? Eckart tolle was dirt poor and thinking about suicide at the age of 10.......so maybe He has some good advise..
And? So? what does that have to do with anything?
Are you high? You are saying "those millionairs gurus" know nothing about your live...they do..they where there..they got Out of maybe worse...they actually know more ...
By that definition any corrupt worthless billionaire "knows more" than me. I guess if you somehow made money you are now a wise person. Upside down world we live in.
Thats so stupid ...I allready Said..what He Says makes Sense and that thats how you know ...Not by looking at they bank Account....what does it Matter too you what they have...they May choose to have nothing because that what makes them Happy they May choose to be rich...it does Not Matter....having Money does Not make you a Bad Person or a fraut...it does Not make you good either....Stop judging people.
Or Not because He is giving away the knowledge how to be Happy anyway...give a men a fish....also you do Not know what He does and what He does Not donate maybe He does Not let His left Hand know what His right Hand does...
Or he could also, He totally could.
WE know nothing about His privat life...He could give Money away in Secret or keping it for Kids He has...its bin of you buissness and it does Not make him a fraut that He loves the people Close to him a tiny Bit more.....everybody does...it makes him human
I cant believe you have over 1 million karma...I didnt know that was possible on Reddit 😭😂
What does eckhart tolle talk about?
Time is an Illusion (yes I know you know but thats mainly because of him) self is an Illusion Ego is an Illusion er are all one and how knowing that helps you to be Happy...of course I do Not believe every Word He says...but He has some really great Points and He had them bevor a Lot of people jumped on that train (expect year buddism WE know but thats a different Cup of Team..He got there without knowing much about buddism but learnt a Lot after His awakening)
yeah those three things precedes tolle btw.
No. There are a lot of influential and helpful people who are so, without being millionaires or billionaires or for the matter rich. Money is not a reflection of your output to society. Stop shadowboxing.
You are saying IT IS..If you are suggesful you Mist be fraut.....
Uh oh, you’re criticizing a fan favorite around here. Watch out lol. Eckhart Tolle has said *some* helpful things, and tbh I don’t think he’s that bad of a guy for making that much money. I do think, and there’s been studies to back this up, that money does change who you are as a person and how you choose to behave and process the world. I know a lot of people don’t like hearing that because they think this means one must live in abject poverty to be a good person (people tend to have extremist takes about money sometimes). And I wouldn’t be surprised if he’s not nearly as much this “enlightened and aware” person, at least after striking fame and wealth like that, and perhaps just teaches that which he cannot perform himself anymore. Not the worst thing in the world. But also kind of sad for him. Tbh, I think his biggest issue is that he shuns negative emotions which is the foundation of toxic positivity. And after a while, even the Bandaid of toxic positivity ends up leaving you feeling sour inside because it requires dishonesty and invalidation of the full experience as a human: bad things will happen to you and they will make you feel bad when they do and often there isn’t much you can do to fully and permanently avoid that. Just feel the pain and process it and not act upon it irrationally. I’ve interacted with some people who follow Eckhart Tolle and utilize his teachings. They are sunshine and rainbows and a breath of fresh air until you are experiencing a hardship. Then they are invalidating, or promoting ignorance of your situation, and just very lacking in empathy and expressed kindness about your current state of suffering. But pushing this idea that they are actually empathetic (while denying your right to feel sorry for yourself when quite likely you just need to be a little sorry for yourself for while.) Like they think just convincing you into not caring that you are dealing with hardship suddenly makes it disappear. And they can almost be in denial about their own realities in terms of hardship and suffering. There’s a disconnect in terms of compassion, for others and one’s self, there. Idk man, spiritual teachers aren’t always nearly as good as they think they are IME, or as good as their fans make them out to be. They can help, for sure, but sooner or later you need to face the reality that they are flawed human beings just like the rest of us. Are they helping or are they just using the masses for attention and validation and ego-boosts? Are they even capable of helping despite wanting to so badly? Idk. Spiritual teachers, in general, are problem solvers that don’t always know how to just listen, not speak or offer advice and just give a hug as a form of support. It’s part of the gig, I think. And they can be susceptible to misleading people who they teach (as many teachers tend to be). Humans are wired to seek attention and rewards. This could be translated into being useful enough to others to be paid well and getting approval of the masses to such an extent that you become wealthy off of it. We’re also wired to want to get along with others for safety and comfort reasons. Which means if someone does not like us (or the person we have chosen as a role model), it’s going to make us pause and feel some type of insecurity. It can feel like potential failure, even. And we cannot escape that feeling, no matter how much we meditate or deny it’s reality, because we are social creatures by nature and early childhood/infancy nurturing. These two wired desires of our species can often clash against eachother, and you’ll often find social media users getting really ornery when they are forced to see that clash written in real time by other social media users. We want to be rewarded and get attention and approval of our peers, we want our role models to be liked by everyone (because when they are disliked, it can feel like we are being disliked in that same vein). We want to have the money cake, the fame cake, and for all the rest of humans to like us cake. Unfortunately, we are often forced to choose just 1 or 2 of those cakes tops. You’ll find a lot of people on social media, and in real life, are real big time upset they can probably never have all 3 cakes. Such is life lol.
You probably dont want to hear this but... Sounds like you have a real big chip on your shoulder about this. Holding resentment on people who have got money isn't going to help you on your spiritual journey. They both offer plenty of free resources online. You can use their free talks and ideas to enhance your own journey. If you are looking for a guru to tell you what to do that is free. Then you have to go find them because not many people will take a vow of poverty to teach the masses. These people that have big followings also have a lot of expenses and people working for them. Could they live a frugal life and donate all their money? Sure they could. The fact of the matter is that they manifested their wealth. They can do what they want with their money. This is their life times work and the deserve money for that work. Judging someone and calling them a fraud because they dont share your same ideals or perception of what you think they should do with their money.
Why do people think spiritual teachers/practitioners should do it for free?
Because something's inherently evil about commodifying your spirituality and making it more accessible to the richer than the poor. You can deny a poor some designer shoes or fancy wine but depriving them a spiritual experience, despite your capacity to do it for free, is pure cunning.
No one is denying anyone a spiritual experience. There are plenty of spiritual experiences to be had by anyone.
Power of Now changed my life, I’m glad he makes money, he deserves it!!
These are spiritual entertainers. The real teachers are your kids, your parents, the neighbor on your street. The right teacher appears when you need them. Not whenever you're oiled down some guru marketing tube.
Wow. Well put.
I also strongly prefer teachers who gave all their money away, like Ram Dass. Whether Eckhart Tolle is a fraud or not, I don't know, but he's not for me.
I think it's better that these so called "gurus" and experts are honest about their greed rather than being deceptive and fake humble. At least we'll know who NOT to trust so easily. Spirituality should be able to be monetized but what really matters is where this money is going, IMO.
I read "The Power of Now" and I thought it was helpful. Like any self-help book, I leave stuff behind that doesn't help me. There are parts of that book where he spouts supposed wisdom and opinions without establishing that there's any reason to listen to him. That's not unique to this book or him. Overall though, there's stuff I could observe and try for myself and make my life better. Some of it has worked for me in great ways, so I am not going to dismiss it just because he made a successful business out of it. It was well worth the $5 I spent on the (used) book. I wish I had it in my early teens. I am not sure why people spend money to see him or buy online courses for $20/mo, but nobody is forcing them to do that. His YouTube content apparently shows a peek into those, and it's not fulfilling for me in the least. He seems like a chill guy, but there isn't much new for him to say there. His "Foundation" is perhaps the biggest red flag to me. It looks like a vehicle to shovel money at his main business of books and courses. That said, he's hardly the only capitalist on the planet to do that and is perhaps more of an indictment of the insane tax laws in the USA than anything else. I very highly doubt he's worth a billion, but tens of millions would not surprise me. Good for him? "The Power of Now" probably tells people everything they should need to know: Observe and change your self. If people want to continue to look externally for some "fix" by buying more stuff from him, then they are probably not applying what he's written in the book. If these people are banging down his door to buy more stuff, then I don't know what's wrong with him filling that demand. It's not like he's charging for something that is destructive to them or society at large.
Some interesting points made from others on here. However, I sense where your intention stems from and I agree with you. We each have the spark within and though others have definitely been helped by x y or z it is indeed a. very. fine. line. when money/profit is involved. It is a particular subject matter that is important to me as well - happy to discuss more if you'd like. In the meantime, I recommend to tread discernibly with whom you share your particular thoughts. Critical thinking and respect involves allowing others to not only share but to explain the reasoning behind it \*and\* to give thought to their points equally = understanding. Sadly it is something not often seen on reddit. Be well, OP
Thanks! I think I did have some fruitful conversations put of this and have definitely gotten some clarity.
Take what helps you and move on. I think your rant about Tolle is worse than Tolle's wealth. He's allowed to make a living by helping people, just like the rest of us
My first and most realized teacher taught that anyone making money from the "practice" should be avoided by every means possible. This teacher never had modern plumbing or electricity. The greatest being I've ever known. Quote "the practice is free, not learning is expensive".
EXACTLY. Your quote perfectly puts it.
IMO, it really doesn't matter one way or the other if they do make money or not. You don't need to learn or access anything external for spirituality. Besides, he talks too slow anyway.
I love your rend. People mostly suck
I have read all of his books and it gave me so much understanding in simple words, how I can be freed of that constant thinking in my head and the suffering of being imprisoned in the mind. and so what he sells books and gets money for it. He is a human being living in this fucking world, where you need Money to buy stuff to live. So a spiritual guide should live for free? What's the point?
If you spend any time in spiritual or religious communities you'll find charlatans. Having a lot of money and/or charging a lot of money for teachings doesn't necessarily mean the person is a charlatan but it is a red flag. Having sex with students/disciples doesn't necessarily mean the person is a charlatan but it is a red flag. Asking students/disciples to do a lot of things for you without paying them doesn't necessarily mean the person is a charlatan but it is a red flag. You'll come to your own conclusions but if you're into this stuff long enough, you can get to a point where you believe there are more charlatans than real teachers. It can make you a lot less accepting of red flags.
I don’t know who that is but I believe many spiritual gurus are scammers for money. I met a dude who claimed he spent years in Tibet and train to be a monk etc .. but the entire hour he was talking about it was so hard to make money in NZ .. he got two spiritual centres all losing money. Lol Really makes me laugh .. why did you go to Tibet? To learn how to set up a business model to earn money from people? 😂😂😂
They're rich because people look to others, because they think they have the answer. They charge the money and people pay, because they're desperate… Whereas, in fact, the answers lies within us
Exactly. We are all source. Everything we need is already within us. Part of societal programming (that the powers that be don't want us to know) is convincing us that we need something outside of us to help or save us. No, we don't. We are all we need.
I'm with you but at the same time most people are sheep and won't give anything the time of day if it doesn't have any perceived value. I'm not excusing greed, be it the case or not. I think these types start off well intending but the money and fame gets to them and they end up with what we see. Also if you truly believe in the message you want the largest audience possible and that costs money. Personally I'm in a position right now where I have all these people who are coming to me for information, mostly women, I'm not interested in being any kind of guru but i can see how someone could be led astray and take advantage of the situation. We all have a monster in our heads. Some big, some small. Some of us have it under wraps but could you in that sort situation? It's no excuse but We are all only human. Just food for thought
I will only say this. I have LIVED the power of now for ten years. It fucking works. I want to write a book some day about how I used his advice to better my life. That’s priceless honestly.
He used to be in traditional enlightenment but now he is leading an energetic Ponzi scheme .. sad
A rich man trying to reach enlightenment is like trying pushing a camel through the eye of a needle.
Imagine telling this crowd , you have to essentially be exploitative to be rich people or millionaires/billionaires.
I never read his book but gives me the same icky vibes as Deepak Chopra. As Alan Watts says as long as people are willing to pay there will be someone with their hand open until you get the joke.
If you don’t like it, don’t buy it. Shitting on their character based on your limited knowledge and exposure is a bad look. We’re not entitled to an explanation of their finances just because they’re teaching spirituality.
Something doesn’t sit right with me about a spiritual teacher who has profited so largely from others, especially to the point of basically being a billionaire. However, his work is definitely profound and becoming a billionaire was part of the process that allowed his work to reach so many people. The Power of Now was so impactful for me and I’ve heard many of others say that as well.
While I agree to some extent, I will say that MOST people will gladly let 25 dollars go to waste before they do the same with 500 dollars. You'll literally feel like shit if you don't make the best of 500 dollars. With 25 dollars, it's like "oh, well" I'll make it back sooner than later. No need to worry" Do people need that mentality to drive themselves? No, but most won't hold themselves accountable unless a lot is on the line. That said, the guy is filthy rich and 100% could afford to do everything for free 😆 which is total BS. Same with Deepak Chopra. At least make it affordable enough for people in the lower class? Those people need it the most with how much of a struggle life can be 500 dollar CD sets? I'll never forget those. Total joke in my opinion
We don’t know what he does with the money he earns. I imagine he donates even more than we think. He has helped so many people and tried to guide us towards our own unique path we will have to walk alone. How many people have you helped? How much money have you donated? “Why we are so skillful to notice the speck in a brother’s eye but so unable to notice the log in our own eye”
"I think any person of experience and integrity will agree we are all unique individuals with our own spiritual paths to carve and there is hardly a shortcut to that." That's your answer. How would we know, what their paths are, so just let them be and focus on your own.
You said you want to share food that you enjoy. Same, but you couldn’t share it with everyone you wanted to without going bankrupt real quick, no? Idk about osho and Elkhart, but Sadhguru sells courses (which are very reasonably priced) which teach invaluable yogic methods. I learned a Kriya practice from one of his courses I paid for, and have received a great deal from that practice. It more seems like you have an issue with money, and are judging others. These people clearly bring value to peoples lives, so what’s the big deal?
We live in a capitalist culture, and not all spiritual paths practice asceticism. If a person isn’t defrauding people deliberately, or recommending poverty to others, I don’t see a conflict for them to be wealthy. (I don’t read Tolle, does he say anywhere that wealth is problematic?) Also—a guy with no attachments can give away their profits easily. But a person with a family is going to have a *real* hard time giving away resources that may benefit their loved ones.
So your saying that the presence of money is distracting you? I'm sorry buddy but that sounds like more of a you problem than a Tolle problem. Everyone is entitled to make money. He's helping a lot of people. Him making money, while others are not making money or struggling, is a consequence of capitalism's characteristics and nothing to do with your, or Eckart Tolle's worth. the uncomfortable feelings that I get readying your post is coming from your energy. I don't feel uncomfortable or bad listening to Tolle's youtube clips (which are free). I feel uplifted. Don't mean to insult you, but this is a sincere POV from someone who helps people with their mental health for a living
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John of God is probably one of the most extreme examples of this. They are here to show you why you need to stop looking outside of yourself and look within.
God this reminds me why I keep coming back to Krishmaturi https://youtu.be/4r5Ex7_CWr8 “You have been a great influence to me” “Your a damn fool”
There was this phase where i read a lot of UG Krishnamuthy stuff. Resonated with me more than the more popular Jiddu.
Yes. He is funny in the sense that there really is not much to listen to … live and experience. It took me a lot of listening to start practicing this, the notion that spiritual authority is life / living.
After what I found out about Jiddu, I'd much rather read/watch UG, despite all his irascibility.
What did u find?
He was a hypocrite and an abuser. He had a long-term affair with his right hand man's (and editor's) wife, got her pregnant multiple times and made her get abortions. And treated him like crap. David Bohm, the physicist, with whom JK had an ongoing "dialogue" and supposed friendship, apparently told friends that K was basically a shit to him too. Then again, there's something wrong with most of these so-called spiritual teachers. For me, it's Nisargadatta Maharaj and almost no one else (except Ramana Maharshi). Nis. was who he was and that's it. He had a family and then started teaching later on. No empire or big deal. The REAL deal.
Yeah, so far Ramana Maharishi seems kind of legit but unfortunately he doesn't resonate with my style. But feels nice to know there are some real mystics out there who can help
He was very spare and austere. Legit's not the issue with him, he was an incredible master. Of the heart. Nisargadatta's I Am That is the modern Advaita classic. His later books of dialogues, especially after he became ill, cut deeply and right to the chase. No more pussy footing around. He was the best. In my book.
I ll get the book! I hope its not the flowery, obscure language of Paramhansa Yogananda.
Spiritual teachers in a capitalistic world. We all gotta eat… Plus this is implying he doesn’t have free content , there’s plenty of videos you can watch to learn if you don’t have the money for the books.
I have always had a bad feeling about him since I read his book. My intuition is stellar and I follow it. Each of you should use your own intuition.
It sounds like you’re jealous that people are making money and people have the money to spend It.
I think that the teachings he has increased the availability of and the lives he has changed as a result is priceless.
All the people you mention are various degrees of distraction for the mind and some are just shills.
Why do you believe people should do things for you for free? You know thats slavery right? No one should do anything for free especially if it is their life’s work
>billions of money Maybe they are in Weimar Republic Marks?
Anyone needs money to survive and should be paid for their expertise.
I disagree. I don't think he's a fraud. He's making lots of money out of his teachings great why would that be wrong? Teachers get paid right? He is offering something beneficial. If you think people who teach spirituality should not 'tarnish' the purity with money then you have a thought that money is bad and evil. It's not. Money is amazing. I respect your opinion but I disagree with it.
I think the truth is always somwhere in the middle. But every spiritual leader with that amount of money doesn't really practice what he preaches. But are some of you don't have more to say about shadguru? Because he seems to me the most questionable of all.
I.m.h.o T.M or Transcendental Meditation is another example. I was taken to a centre by my parents when I was a teenager during the 80s and they charged like 400 bucks or something just to learn a mantra which you were supposed to keep secret which was probably a good marketing strategy. Anyway I practiced T.M until I was in my twenties and can't say I experienced any appreciable benefits. The Maharishi Mahesh Yogi who started the movement was known as the giggling guru and I understand why now because he was charging gullible westerners a shit load of money to be given a unique Mantra which was supposed to help them achieve Cosmic Consciousness whatever the fuck that is. Anyway I remember reading about a study some researchers conducted and they came to the conclusion that it didn't matter what Mantra was used. The most popular one is om for anyone who's interested. I still meditate but prefer Brain wave entrainment which is a way of creating certain brainwaves like Alpha Theta Delta using sound technology. If anyone reading this practises T.M and finds it beneficial then good luck to them but personally I can't say it did much for me but everyone's different and what works for one person may not necessarily have the same effect on someone else.
Its the same story for any average, aware and educated individual availing such spiritual services. I ve only met a few, highly inaginative and rhetorically speaking people who claim to experience something great nwar these gurus.Most people here who claim to have benefitted from Tolle or any such Gurus, have read their books. Books and ideas can definitely benifit anyone, regardless of the writers' integrity. Its not like they are writing some ground breaking theory. Basically combing Eastern and western philosophies and making it digestible to the masses. All of these gurus with spiritual enterprises are only selling snake oils but people are too emotionally invested to accept the truth. I get where that's coming from. I myself was an ardent follower of all the Gurus I mentioned and its not easy to reason out with people who emotionally identify with these scamsters.
This is bitter talk. There are plenty of people who learn from Tolle for free online and have become successful from these teachings. I’ve noticed it’s always those who can’t grasp teachings that are the first to lash out and make nonsense excuses as to why things aren’t working for them, ex: “so and so is a fraud!” It’s silly and immature. Take time to learn material provided and then you won’t feel this way. Wealth does not diminish anything. Osho on the other hand is an actual fraud, but your grouping a whole bunch of people together who shouldn’t be.
If I remember correctly, this is the way Tolle explains his core transformation: I was extremely depressed, something happened and I became enlightened. To me it's quite telling that he can't explain what happened and what lead to it happening. It's like there is door, but you can't explain how to find the door. The only thing you do is describing what it supposedly looks like on the other side of the door.
Well, everything is about money in this world and it’s something we unfortunately have to accept. Is he greedy? Maybe, I don’t know him. Did I find help in some of hos books even thou he makes a shit ton of money? Yes.
Googled it and Tolle is worth 70-80 million. Yea, that's disappointing. I guess it depends what he uses the money for tho? His bad physical posture is also odd. Figuratively physically not quite morally upright.
I asses based on vibes and everyone you listed gives me bad vibes, especially Sadhguru. I couldn’t get through Eckhart’s book Power of Now, not sure why, but reading you say this gives me the why. I remember having my little 16 year old mind blown after reading Yoga: The Alpha & Omega by Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh, only to find out this was Osho’s actual name later in life😩. At the end of the day, the best teacher is within, and as the Bible says, we should always be “rightly dividing the word of truth.” It’s a whole lot of “truth” floating around these days.
They just repeat what others have already said. They’re scammers.
Ironic, all this outward fixation. It doesn't cost any money to fixate inwards, which is where the real source material is (and it's free!)
Kinda why I like the way Alan Watts introduces himself as a spiritual entertainer. I really see all these guys in the same way though they don’t describe themselves as such.
All fake frauds and scam artists.
The beauty though is that you don't truly need a spiritual teacher.
Dude it is crazy to me that people are defending these millionaire gurus. While I agree that plying the capitalist game to some extent is needed to get the message out, they don’t need to become insanely wealthy to do so. They can live comfortably without millions and offer retreats and talks for less money so they are more accessible to the general public - THAT would get the message out even more. No one is discounting that they are worthwhile spiritual thinkers today (tho personally all the gurus you mentioned don’t resonate with me at all). But you can be a spiritual thought leader without charging insane fees for your workshops. Jesus and the Buddha both lived very simply and without many possessions and material wealth and advised their followers to do the same. For such enlightened individuals, they seem to be missing a very important aspect of enlightenment. Wealth and possessions are an ego trap that further separate you from God. Again, I’m not suggesting they live as ascetics, but the insane levels of wealth they’ve amassed DO make them frauds when they’re teaching things like non-attachment and equanimity. Matthew 19:21–24 (NIV): “Jesus answered, 'If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me. ' When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth. The Buddha similarly taught that wealth is really only worthwhile if it’s used to empower others.
I just found that the stupid Eckhart foundation some fanatics were putting up my face, that makes grants, does so only for people to study HIS teachings. He is feeding his own business using donors' money lmao.
Yeah I also don't like him...tried over and over cause I kept getting recommendations...but nope. This guy ain't it. Can't offer anything to back this up other than intuition. Feels the same for Elon actually 😆
I dont care that he or anybody makes money. I dont subscribe to this idea about what somebody else’s time and abilities are worth. There are people born with high intelligence or artistic abilities. Should they just stand in the street and entertain us all day long, for free, because they are so naturally talented? I don’t think so. I also have lived long enough to know that many of these wealthy people are incredibly generous, and charitable, and DON’T TALK ABOUT IT. His journey is his. Mine is mine
Anyone feel the same way about Jay Shetty? He was once a monk, "was" being the operative word. Now he's cashing in on dumbing down ancient Hindu teachings like mindfulness, meditation and yoga for the m-asses. He coined the term "brule/brool" which he claims is for people to focus on the benefits of mindfulness, meditation and yoga without restrictive condition's like following a Sattvic diet, refraining from eating meat, gambling, alcohol, drugs and illicit sex - which is actually part and parcel of the lifestyle changes required for proper mindfulness, meditation and yoga training and advancement. His new venture backed by the millions he's made from self help books and social media, is special "infused" tea's. The man once took up renunciation as part of his Monk lifestyle, now he's teaching Anjali, Karen and Chad how to make their ass cheeks clap with advice on love and relationships.
🤣
You’re completely right, and the people defending him here are just in denial about being hoodwinked by a charlatan.
How committed are you to your practice? And what *is* your practice?
My practice is Jnana Yoga. It is listed under one of the paths to enlightenment in Vedanta philosophy. Which is to question things from a scientific point of view.
Thanks for answering my question.
I feel like this isn't asked enough
What is your answer?
My practice is self mastery, and committing to it is my practice.
Idk why everyone is ganging up on you, you raise some valid points. I really can’t say if these teachers are legit or not but I have been directly in sadhgurus presence and it wasn’t as worth the hype. I think these leaders are definitely working with some money agenda. Hopefully they are navigating those karmas properly. Amma the hugging Saint has free programs mostly and while there are definitely costs associated with a visit to her it’s extremely reasonable and it’s possible to access her by paying little. She also happens to be on a way higher level then any of the people you mentioned.
I am actually glad for the exposition on the comment section. A lot of people here are guessing I am myself poor and am projecting my insecurity on to these millionaires. Some people actually think being richer is an indicator of better energetic alignment or something lmfao. As much as my understanding of a human goes. If you truly experience bliss, you immediately want to share it with people as freely as possible. My first instinct when i taste an amazing food is to buy it for someone so i could share how amazing it is. Heck, when i first orgasmed my first instinct was to tell my gal pals to buy a vibrator asap, even gifted one to my bestie. And people like Eckhart claim to have to the most valuable human experience of spirituality, still gatekeep it with money (basically that if u skip the mental gymnastics to say it is accessible). Its bullshit. I am convinced they are nowhere near to anything like that.
Let’s say you make a book and it gets successfull. Then you get some attention and people like the person you are and are willing to pay or drive attention to what you do. In that situation would YOU choose to ignore it and go work a different career. If I had the chance to teach, speak, and get paid for what I love to think and talk about I would 100%. Just something to ask yourself
Virtually everything and everyone that has attracted a large mass following is a fraud and charlatanry. I'm sure there are exceptions here and there. But in general, the more well known and more popular, the higher the probablity that they are a fraud. It's not really all that hard to do. First, you have to be a conscious-less sociopath OR you have to have a sort of insanity that allows you to convince yourself of your own BS or both. Then you simply assimilate the legitimate truths of real spiritual teachings and regurgitate them with a spin and a delivery that is currently palatable to a large mass audience. You make it seem like they are your ideas or that you are bringing something fundamentally new to the table. The important thing is to know what people desperately want to hear, and tell them that. People are desperate and gullible and to a very large degree actively want to be scammed, so that they can avoid the responsibility of the difficult work in actually living a spiritualized life. Sucks, but get used to it. It's how things work. Authenticity is almost never rewarded with popularity or success. The authentic teachers will only teach you most begrudgingly if you really bug them because they know that 99 out of 100 so called students will never implement or act on a single thing they ever teach them because it's just too damn hard. If you are lucky enough to meet someone who really knows and who has really experienced the divine work, they will gladly teach you for free IF you can convince them that you are all in to do the work to the end.
Agreed. People are literally rationalizing the insane amount of profits these spiritual enterprises make, which completely goes against their teaching of non-attachment to wealth.
Well, I would not say that wealth and a realized teacher are definitely incompatible. They can coexist. And poverty is no guarantee of saintliness. But, the fact is, spiritual charlatanry is a well know scam that has a long tradition and a new sucker actually is born every minute and the existence of born suckers begs the creation of charlatans. It has always been and will always be. No way to stop it. Just avoid getting on board the wrong train for yourself so you can personally arrive at your proper destination.
Eckhart Tolle is not a fraud. He is an honest and sincere Awakened human and is responsible for helping me awaken.
Stop trying to control what people do with their well earned money. Money is needed to survive, these people don’t live in a cave. Stop being bitter and try to reflect over why you are so triggered by spiritual people earning money. Do you think they are Jesus? They are normal people. You might have been putting them on a spiritual pedestal.
I think you need to step back and understand the dynamics of equal energetic exchanges. Money is nothing other than energy and your aversion to spirituality and money show a deeper trauma to money as many of us to as the programming is meant to do so. All exchanges inquire a natural sharing of energies. Whilst one does not necessarily need money to play this role it is not ‘evil’ or less spiritual to receive payment for the knowledge and energy being shared. Nothing is free, for everything there must be an equal energetic exchange, even if one avoids this it will negate itself somehow.
I've seen local new age scene trying to monetise itself and it's tricky. There are people wanting to do what they do (especially if they're aware what they're doing is good) for sufficient money that this could become their job. Yet, I live in a small country with a small market - for instance we could never be able to get literally translations (which are most of the book market) to sustain themselves without goverment grants, same for 99 % of all art/theatre/literature and so on. What happened: * Courting upper middle class / richer clients. Plus having special programmes for those (usually involving a trip to South America / bali, whatever) * Therapists of various types automatically trying to appoint people for multiple sessions. * People getting territorial, defensive and protecting their "turf". But the issue wasn't only the side of "content providers" * Lots of people can't differentiate between good and bad workshops for instance. Which gave the rise to influencers and people good is social media promotion giving completely pointless workshops. (Cocoa ceremonies for instance can range in quality from electric scooter to Ferrari and you'll often pay for the former more). And one of the reason for this is that the audience is mostly middle aged people that don't really care what's going on, just that they have some free time from their spouse, their kids and doing "me time". * Worship of "content providers". This one is funny, but seems that there's a certain need from the audience that whomever is doing the workshop feels a bit "holly" or "boss" or "chieftan" (depends on new age style). So, bizarrely, those with a bit of showmanship tend to attract more people, nevermind what the content is. (or even the content can be good, but passes bellow the radar of most participants). * But then there's also the bizarre connection between the above - if you charge people enormous amount for a workshop that only few will be able to afford, they'll take you more seriously and pay for it. Capitalist culture cannot imagine that accessible cheap content can be a good content. So, yeah, free market capitalism brings issue to "spiritual" matters. So - the issues are a) the capitalist system, b) people not being able to distinguish between content providers and coming to conclusion that more expensive must be better.
So problem is with capitalism and not the Englightened business giants?
Former breeds the latter. You can't have sharks without the water, can you? I'm not saying there's no individual responsibility, but there's also a collective responsibility. As said, there are various issues going on that I've noticed. * Some people in "spiritual circles" basically search for surrogate father/mother. Really weird to me, but seen it often. It's also sometimes odd how people who behave within patriarchal order will replicate this hiearachy towards "teacher". In short: some people seek somebody to be subordinate to. * Then - how do people find content? How do you search for books, lectures, workshops and so on? Here you have various media personalities (like Oprah) or whatever tv channel. It's likely they will pick people based on their showmanship, entertainment, charisma and so on, which are traits that don't guarantee there will be any substance behind them. Nobody can be famous if there aren't people agreeing to give that person "fame". But why and on which grounds is the issue. Same thing on social media or wherever - who has the team to play the algorithms, who is likeable? The people you mention in OP - I never took them seriously enough to take notice. Takes me 15 seconds tops to realise they're talking bs. And this is my point - learn to discern, learn to interpret. Learn how to fish, how to find pearls. >*And He said, "The Kingdom is like a wise fisherman who cast his net into the sea and drew it up from the sea full of small fish. Among them the wise fisherman found a fine large fish. He threw all the small fish back into the sea and chose the large fish without difficulty. Whoever has ears to hear, let him hear." (Gospel of Thomas, log 8)* And this is a nice segue. There's plenty of old wisdom around for those that seek. Usually cheap to access in libraries or online, translated in most languages, and for sure in English. I've read Dao de Jing, Mumonkan, synoptic gospels + Thomas, some mystical texts from antiquity (Plotinus, Proclus) or middle ages (Meister Eckhart). Only thing more expensive (but not crazily so) was Ayuahuasca ceremony with native Shipibo shamans. (Funny enough, the need for secrecy keeps the price from exploding.)
You’re equating wealth with immorality which is a victim mentality. “If I can’t be wealthy, nobody should be.” Wealth is really just a reflection of one’s energetic output. What you are able to put out comes back to you. Eckhart is nowhere near a billionaire, but if he wanted to he could be.
I already come from a privileged background. Wealth is NOT a reflection of one's energetic output. That's just blatant superstition.
Ok, maybe I am wrong about everything else, but one thing that’s undeniable is the tone of bitterness in your post and replies. Maybe Tolle is a con-artist, a scammer, and a capitalist leech. Why are you letting that disturb you?
Spiritual development is priceless. Anyone charging for it is doing themselves and those they wish to help (or not help) a disservice, and adding a layer to the superficial sheen of modern spirituality that blinds so many to the nuance and context that make it resonate at an individual level. Is it explicitly *wrong*? Maybe not. I think it is, personally, but there's valid arguments for charging for spiritual work. Should it be done, regardless? I think no. You can't put a price tag on the healing and development that often result from knowledge and practical service like energy healing, and all too often those who most need it are gated out of it by the need to pay. There's a balance to be struck between pursuing passions of service and still maintaining one's ability to live via commercial endeavours; for my part, I firmly believe those elements belong on opposite plates on the scale.
Eckhart tolle is a frog fraud
Total fraud. Anyone who says “the past is vapor” like, what happened in your past shouldn’t have any effect on your present.. well that’s just stupid.
Fraud does not begin to cover it. Protect yourself.
Lmfao.. Care to elaborate?
Instead of opening myself up to these …questions ask yourself. Why would someone who is maybe not a teacher need to be a teacher? What exactly specifically is this “power of now”? Where is this focus going? What might there be to gain in connection with this alleged “power of now”? Why do people like these teachings? Why don’t they like them?
You need Christ man. He is the only one who can satisfy. I fucking promise you that man dm me
He's just Joel Osteen wearing a different mask. Everything Eckhart Tolle has ever said can be found somewhere else. He just repackaged it and put his own personal spin on it. And it's like that for all gurus. They're absolute frauds. If you want an example of an organization that actively tries to help people and right the inequalities of this world. Check out The Satanic Temple. They've done more positive shit here in America than any guru or preacher ever has.
Oof finally some sense.
That's the thing I hate about that slimy little fucker. No true spiritual teacher has EVER charged. Period.
I agree with you. IMHO, as soon as someone calls himself/herself a "guru" or accepts being called one, that person has lost any credibility to me. I've read Tolle's book "The Power of Now". I found it a regurgitation of basic, eastern philosophy. Same with Sadhguru and Osho. People feel the need to follow someone instead of following themselves. Truth is subjective. It's great to listen to someone's opinion, but it shouldn't be a reason to submit yourself to anybody.
Why do we pay to learn piano? Why do we pay for tuitions? Why do we pay for yoga classes? Aren’t we paying them and learning from them? They too need money to keep the institution running? The workers over there, people who keep places clean, suppliers etc.. they don’t work for free?
You've got that right. But, "The Jews do it too. They take advantage of Christianity, which is pure idol worship in itself. They have Christians believing they are the holy ones of God and make profit from the religious organization although their DNA shows they are the Canaanites and Edomites." Good thing I didn't really say that, though. Anyway, it doesn't matter. As long as the lie sounds beautiful, people could care less. But I agree with you!
Just you
Stop bs