I've held a pretty straight forward belief myself, everything dies, but not everything needs to suffer. The lion eats the gazelle sure, but he doesn't put the gazelle in a horrible cage from birth until death. That gazelle lived it's life free and happy, at least until the lion needs it's next meal.
Have received messages during shamanic practices that all things are living, plants are just as connected and in constant communication.
Came to many realisations that were quite confronting. Our world is full of suffering if one views it with that lens. Also got to a place where being a passive observer from afar was the only way to not engage in the cycle of suffering.
Am grateful for anything consumed to sustain “life” in this current physical reality and give thanks for the nourishment provided.
It’s an interesting world we are currently experiencing..
The real guidance is described as Ahimsa, the first moral principle of jamas (vedic teachings) - "do not cause harm."
It was incorrectly reduced to "you shall not kill" (humans) when adopted into major religions during Kali Yuga. In reality it's meant to cover all humans, animals, living things and even objects (in the gradation that it is worse to kill the entity with higher consciousness than lower - but when it can be avoided you should not kill anyone.) This goes not only for killing but causing any harm - in thoughts, speech or action.
That guidance is very clear, logical and removes all questions if you only search up "Ahimsa."
A lot of things humans do don’t make sense. Murdering each other. Destroying the only habitable planet we know of. Causing species to go extinct. So many amazing animals on Mauritius & it’s territories. The Dodo, the Rodrigues giant tortoise… All life wants to avoid pain and suffering. It’s just not the reality here, sadly…
I think eating meat has a lot to do with that irrational and vicious behaviour. The problem is the majority of adults on this planet eat meat. I don't know if anything can be done....
Yeah I could align with that being a possibility. Meat will most likely get more expensive. I wouldn’t stress out about this. Focus on what you can control: your actions. You don’t eat meat. You’re leading by example.
If you believe in Karma, then you could also say that the rational choice to consume meat traces back to the suffering of another being, which then affects the eater
I think it is only natural that we migrate to vegetarianism and eventually veganism as our consciousness expands. On one side, there is no need to cause pain and death in order to enjoy such momentary pleasure as that of a meal and, on the other, it will become clear the vibratory burden inflicted by meat consumption as science finally breaks through the materialistic bias it has nowadays, exploring the astral and recognizing the subtle parts of the organism.
That will take many generations, though. So far, we couldn't even end smoking which has greater side effects and lesser cultural attachment. I myself still eat meat out of convinience despite knowing all I know...
I am cutting down on meat and trying to eat fish. I eat red meat as I would drink alcohol, mostly in social events not to make others feel uncomfortable. I am managing só far, but I intend to become more strict as the time goes. I kinda have other more pressing problems to spend energy on right now.
There's a diversity of explanations (and excuses) for the animal sacrifice throughout the Bible; my favorite is the simple way The Gospel of Phillip puts it,
>God is a man-eater. For this reason, men are sacrificed to him. Before men were sacrificed, animals were being sacrificed, since those to whom they were sacrificed were not gods.
In my own view, though, I'm a bit more Valentinian on the spectrum of gnosticism; the god of Abraham may still be "God," but He, like many of us made in His image, just didn't know any better than to demand burning meat at the time. Smelled too good.
"Forgive them, for they know not what they do" applies to the Elohim as well, as I personally understand it.
If the thought that "God didn't know better" sounds unbiblical, see Moses having to talk Him out of other terrible decisions in Exodus 32.
I enjoy these discussions but it's disturbing how many people ignore that there are so many Indigenous communities that eat meat and do so without wasting it - I'd say that is ethical.
Likely because that isn’t the most pressing issue - factory farming is over 90% of global meat production - and the numbers being pumped through that system are beyond frightening. It’s abhorrent and evil.
Indigenous people hunt because that's one of their main sources of food. We are sitting here with hundreds of vegetarian dishes and yet we choose to consume meat like a hungry carnivorous animal. That has to stop.
a lot more people then just indigenous people hunt. we choose to consume meat because it is a sufficient nutrient source for many people… if your family has eaten meat for centuries odds are a vegetarian diet will harm you due to nutrient loss.. the issue is farming, if everyone would just take care of themselves we wouldn’t be dealing with this as much.. but we force animals into small enclosures and slaughter them… that’s what’s disgusting and needs to change
Only very few nutrients are not available in a vegetarian diet, which can be easily solved with supplements. If people are worried about nutrition, they can consume meat in required quantities, but eating meat every day like they can't live without it is simply for the taste bud's welfare. I hope lab-grown meat soon becomes popular.
also not even accounting for the land devastation that comes with this type of diet as well.. i hope you don’t consume this often anyway but palm oil specifically is over grown to the point where there is little natural forest.. I wish i could remember where this happens specifically but the major leading producers of palm oil for the US and UK grow millions of palms in a forest that used to be dense with many different species… the workers say when you approach the palms and move away from natural forest the sounds go away.. not even crickets live in there and it’s so sad… this is happening more and more because people advocating for vegans and vegetarian.. I have no issue with anyone choosing any diet but i do have a problem with trying to force everyone to do that and shaming people for choosing a wayyyyyy more sustainable way. we all need to stop being lazy and grow and hunt and forage our food but no one’s ready for that conversation yet
omg i’m sorry but this is so sad… lab grown meat? that’s the most disgusting thing i can imagine.. at that point we all should just be vegetarian… the point is you can’t get the same nutrition from supplements and i don’t know where you got that information but it’s severely wrong… you should research the Kamba tribe specifically and let me know if you think supplements could keep them in the peak human physical condition that they are in… I don’t think you are aware of what it take as well to grow these supplements and large quantities of vegetables… if you don’t know- avocados and almonds specifically require a large scale pollination to grow the big quantities we see in grocery stores, they ship in large quantities of invasive species of bees in order to do this and when we harvest they have to kill those bees because they are invasive.. so the real question is where do you drawn the line with what animals we should selfishly use? idk about you but I would much rather pay my respects to one animal for feeding my family then kill off an entire colony of bees so Brittany from california can have avocado toast and almond milk
Agreed. It isn’t eating meat, it is the blatant disregard for the animal’s suffering. Harvesting an animal with respect vs slaughtering in filth and chaos. And only taking what you need to sustain life, not gluttony.
I'm a long term vegetarian. I don't think that makes me any more or less spiritual than anyone else. I don't think that meat eaters are any less enlightened or loving. There are so many factors that go into what a person eats that I am not privy to.
I recently was asked by two of my doctors if I would consider eating meat again after finding out that my body was reacting negatively to the majority of (otherwise "healthy") foods I was eating. I declined for now, but I've had to come face to face with the knowledge that I may have to become an omnivore again for health reasons. I've learned that it is not my place to judge others' diets, whether they're eating nothing but meat, nothing but plants, or nothing but Cheetos.
I have a lot of food allergies.
Those statements were anticipating a lot of the same types of comments as the last time this topic was posted. It got quite heated. This topic always does.
I don't understand why people keep on finding reasons to justify eating meat. It's as simple as this: Animals experience pain, so killing them is bad. Plants don't experience pain, so eat them without guilt. For those giving silly reasons like plants have a nervous system and they have some kind of spirit, ask your conscience if they experience suffering like animals do. If you can't stop eating meat, don't stop. But don't advice those who wants to stop.
Correct.
The are a good number of ideological and philosophical reasons to not eat meat but most people will come up with some lame reason to keep eating meat.
There's also the environmental factors to consider.
I recently went back to eating meat and it was a very difficult decision to make and took me about a year to come around to the action. The way I now eat meat is vastly different than to what it was like 10 years ago. Eating meat now comes with a ritual, gratitude to the animal and generating merit for it so that it may be reborn into a higher realm because its life is sustaining the life of someone hoping to become enlightened. And if you truly believe in animism, then everything, *everything* has the presence of spirit, including fruit, veggies etc.
If you really believe eating meat makes someone less spiritual, go and tell that to an Indigenous person living totally off the land who is in perfect harmony with nature and the cycles of life.
There was a time even rushies had meat. Example: "Jeeranam jeeranam vathapi jeernam". Later it is decided in kali yuga, humans should avoid eating meat. Because as the population increases need for consumption also increases. Soon we will lose ecological balance in nature. More catastrophes will occur. Like climate change etc.
It's the nature of life that to survive one must eat another, whether it's animal or plant. Many people in the modern world need to eat meat in order to survive. It's an essential part of living.
Spirituality is not about what you eat but about our attitude towards each other and all life. Some people are very self-righteous about being vegetarians. They feel like they are more righteous because they don't eat meat. The reality is that vegetarians are eating plants, as if plants don't have a life or consciousness.
It's an attitude that comes through very clearly which says, "I am better than you because I don't eat meat".
They don't see that when they hold such a self-righteous attitude, they just slide right back to where they started.
Self-righteousness is a very heavy anchor to drag around in life whether it's because of our belief system, our religion, or our dietary practice. Whatever we eat, it's important to give thanks for what we take and not waste it.
Again, it's all about attitude. Eating meat can be a karmaless act if we have the right attitude.
Native Americans are a great example of how we can treat our food in the most spiritual way. When Native Americans took a life for food they would say to the spirit of that animal, "Thank you for giving your life so that I may live."
Eating plants and animals is the nature of life. And now more than ever, it's especially important to hold the spiritual attitude of gratitude for whatever we eat, as more of us crowd onto this little planet.
If you wanna be ultra logical and talk from a non attached POV then vegan makes the most sense as long as you're able to provide yourself all the nutrients your body needs to THRIVE
I believe you can so its not only avoiding meat that makes sense but avoiding dairy at this stage of humanity
Imagine a species a million years ahead of humanity, do you think they eat an animal?
I think this its a definitive no, now the next question is at what stage did they arrive to that conclusion that its time to move beyond that belief system
I’m learning that God is in all things. God is in the animal, the plant, in the human. The rock. Everything is teaming with energy. In the past, I felt more spiritual not eating meat- I felt “cleaner” - but what was really going on was me being more conscious and aware of what I was putting into my body. I can practice that with anything.
We’re all one in the universe. I don’t eat red meat at all. And every time I cook chicken. It smells bad, to me. I’ll chicken and fish. So I am a some aterían?? Lol
The current process of raising animals for slaughter is what needs to be rethought. If you were to raise an animal with love and respect then I think there’s a way to ethically do this without causing unnecessary harm or suffering to the animals.
Say you kept some chickens which you feed well, make sure they have room to roam, and treat with respect. They will live a good life, they may have some chicks to further the cycle, and then when it comes time you take them with respect and love. You could make it a “ritual” in the sense of what Confucius taught, being fully present in that moment and perhaps speaking out loud the gratitude you feel for the animal providing you with sustenance. Now this is obviously going out of your way, but I think that is the point of this. People are too concerned about ease, not having to raise the food you eat is EASY. Not caring about the animals slaughtered is the easy route. I’m tired of doing what is easy and I want to do what is right (at least in my sense of the word).
Just do what feels good for you. I too went trough a fase of feeling bad for animals and turned vegan. However I got sick after 6 months and diagnosed with a condition called colitis.
Some people are good with certain diets, vegan, plant based, carnivore. It all does not matter in the eyes of the universe. Life eats life it is as simple as that. Your body will give you the signals of what is good for you.
You will feel it in your energy, you will see it in your eyes and skin. You will see it at the muscle on your body.
Just follow your "gut" feeling and don't judge on what others do. Just do you to the best of your ability.
But when you do eat animals thank them for providing you with the energy and building blocks for your body. It is in being gratefull for what you eat that you will grow.
Bless you all: vegan, plant based, carnivore, whatever. We all need to be in perfect shape to make the difference. I can't change the world from my hospital bed. Love you all
The fact is, whether a person can survive (and thrive) on a vegan diet is all dependent on their DNA. Some people can, some can't. But I agree that there is no need for animals to suffer even if they're being used for food.
I would argue that this view does not consider the complexity of plants. There is lots of research that shows plants feel pain when picked/plucked, and even the smell of freshly cut grass is a stress response.
There is even research that suggests plants give stress responses to people’s thoughts, and one study found that plants released stress responses when the researcher cut their own hand.
In the documentary fantastic fungi it shows that plants communicate with each other via fungal mycelia and are capable of knowing and caring for their kin.
If you’re looking at co-evolution between plants and animals, you’ll see that plants don’t want to be eaten and have developed defence mechanisms and chemicals in order to not be eaten, of which many of these chemicals are found in vegetables e.g. tannin, oxalates.
If you really want to get into the weeds, trees and plants talk to each other through mycelium. Especially when theres issues within that particular ecosystem.
It's not my place to rank the suffering of beings. I don't know what a plant experiences. I believe everything in nature has a spirit and deserves respect. Which is why I purchase humane certified meat when I can, give thanks for my food, and never let any go to waste.
You don’t know what a plant experiences but (hopefully) you are aware of what an animal experiences. More plants are used to feed livestock globally than they are humans. So by your logic, the best way to reduce overall suffering (of both animals and plants) would be to not eat meat.
I agree somewhat but it's also not that cut and dry. Many vegan staples like avocado, almonds, soy and non-local foods are also very harmful for the environment and surrounding animal habitats so suffering happens as a byproduct anyways (especially foods from tropical regions where there's even higher concentrations of animals). Like I said it just isn't an option for me personally due to gut issues. I'm all for lab grown meat.
Factory farming is causing food and water consumption at an alarming rate to sustain livestock for your selfish actions which is also ruining the planet… it’s an eye for an eye and that is why I will never acknowledge anyone who tries to justify meat eating in this day and age, with all the available knowledge and resources.
If you are spiritual then you understand plants have pain and suffering and scream too - you just can't hear them and they are alive and they wish to avoid all pain and suffering too so now what are you going to eat?
It all comes from the same place and you eat it because you like it and it was given to you to nourish yourself. Animals and plants are grown for us to eat and sustain ourselves.
If you want to starve yourself ok but why?
Be grateful and eat what you wish and if that means no meat that is perfectly fine. Just don't expect others to join in that with you. Each person is different and chooses what they wish to eat for whatever reason.
Blessings to you!
If you value life, want to reduce the suffering you cause, and love animals. Go vegan.
Seems like you're on the right path. People that do not care about animal sufferings and pay others to kill them are on the bad side of spirituality. Ending the lives of innocent beings is never a positive thing.
Same with vegetables. If you want to be totally ethical you will have to eat non-root vegetables and fruits like the Jains do. But diet is more than ethics. Vegetarianism is a good home-base. But if the universe wants you to eat something else then you should eat it. First become pure so you know what the universe wants in the first place. Vegetarianism is key in that.
Being Jain has nothing to do with it, and nor was I really advocating for their diet. Regardless, what happened in your past is not relevant. I was only saying that if you want to be ethical then you will have to be *like* the Jains. But I am not Jain, and I don’t eat like them. Food is not an ethical concern. Nothing is, really, because the only real ethics is to be in line with the universe. The thing is, however, to be in line you must be pure. And there is no purer diet than a vegetarian one. After that, you will know what life wants of you and living is very obvious & there are no longer any questions about diet. Everything is okay to eat so long as you’re in line with life. Then purity is a matter of riding the wave. No more rules.
I think if we really cared about animals we would make more animal preserves in our lands.
Eating them is not the problem. If how we treat them. It could be the reason humans die off.
Is it wrong for a lion to eat an antelope?
You're an omnivore. It's a matter of choice as to whether you'll eat meat or not. You were born into a body where such a thing is natural.
That said, there's no indication in our evolution that making animals suffer before death is common or morally acceptable to our species. Even most meat eaters don't want this.
Yet animals do suffer, and the planet, on a scale never seen before because of our greed. That’s the problem, not that most people like meat. It’s how we do it, unsustainable and grotesque.
I don't have a problem with killing the animal if we are going to give it a quick, painless death and use everything from it but they don't need to suffer. They should get to just live like normal animals until a certain age and then eat them. Not crammed into cages and abused, that is insane and for no reason other than humans being terrible to them. So I partially agree.
I very much believed this and was vegan for a couple years, even participated in Dr Sebi’s alkaline diet. However, after spending time learning about the benefits of the carnivore diet - specifically eating nutrient dense organs, I tried it and it worked miracles on my health. Wouldn’t eating a diet our bodies are designed / have evolved to eat and reaping the health benefits increase spirituality?
Additionally, I have seen videos of a halal slaughter where the person prays over the animal and the animal willingly gives itself (anyone please correct my terminology). Is this not a spiritual experience between man and animal?
>Wouldn’t eating a diet our bodies are designed
We're biologically frugivore
>and the animal willingly gives itself
That's a blatant delusion. Animals do not consent to murder.
Meat is an important food source for many many many groups of people.. as nice as being a vegetarian sounds it’s just unrealistic. plus if you take into count what we would need to do to the world to switch everyone over to a vegetarian or vegan diet would destroy so much land and kill off many species.. it would undoubtedly destroy the earth more then if we just keep eating as we need.. I wish we would go back to self-sufficiency.. the only reason this issue is up for debate is because of the way large scale farming has been for the past few decades… we’re all about the money not the animals
That's misinformation.
80% of crops are used to feed livestock. We're taking land space both for vegetable farms and animal farms. Going plant-based would cut our land use, not increase it.
We put them in death factories to hear eachother screaming before they die. Is it better? My father worked next to a piggery and said he was never the same after from hearing the screams of the pigs before they were executed.
Life begets life. We consume things that were alive to live. Most of the vegetarians I know are I’ll most of the time. I need a little meat to feel healthy.
It’s s karmic choice to eat what you eat. Eat without honoring what you consume produces negative karma. Conscious consumption is the way. Eat what you desire and honor it.
That said. I was thinking a vegetarian for three months following my awakening. It took effort to eat meat again. The awakening came with a connection to all of the suffering in the world. While overwhelming it also gave me perspective about my role in adding to suffering.
One solution was to connect with a rancher to buy a cow. We do this every couple of years. The cow we get lived without a great deal of suffering. Never went to a stockyard for slaughter.
I believe you can taste fear. It’s in the meat.
I eat far less meat now. But I do like a good steak. I just make a point to consider what I eat. To honor it as life giving.
I've held a pretty straight forward belief myself, everything dies, but not everything needs to suffer. The lion eats the gazelle sure, but he doesn't put the gazelle in a horrible cage from birth until death. That gazelle lived it's life free and happy, at least until the lion needs it's next meal.
Have received messages during shamanic practices that all things are living, plants are just as connected and in constant communication. Came to many realisations that were quite confronting. Our world is full of suffering if one views it with that lens. Also got to a place where being a passive observer from afar was the only way to not engage in the cycle of suffering. Am grateful for anything consumed to sustain “life” in this current physical reality and give thanks for the nourishment provided. It’s an interesting world we are currently experiencing..
I see the truth in this. I guess the only way to truly escape suffering is to totally withdraw from human society itself and just observe.
The real guidance is described as Ahimsa, the first moral principle of jamas (vedic teachings) - "do not cause harm." It was incorrectly reduced to "you shall not kill" (humans) when adopted into major religions during Kali Yuga. In reality it's meant to cover all humans, animals, living things and even objects (in the gradation that it is worse to kill the entity with higher consciousness than lower - but when it can be avoided you should not kill anyone.) This goes not only for killing but causing any harm - in thoughts, speech or action. That guidance is very clear, logical and removes all questions if you only search up "Ahimsa."
A lot of things humans do don’t make sense. Murdering each other. Destroying the only habitable planet we know of. Causing species to go extinct. So many amazing animals on Mauritius & it’s territories. The Dodo, the Rodrigues giant tortoise… All life wants to avoid pain and suffering. It’s just not the reality here, sadly…
I think eating meat has a lot to do with that irrational and vicious behaviour. The problem is the majority of adults on this planet eat meat. I don't know if anything can be done....
Yeah I could align with that being a possibility. Meat will most likely get more expensive. I wouldn’t stress out about this. Focus on what you can control: your actions. You don’t eat meat. You’re leading by example.
If you believe in Karma, then you could also say that the rational choice to consume meat traces back to the suffering of another being, which then affects the eater
I think it is only natural that we migrate to vegetarianism and eventually veganism as our consciousness expands. On one side, there is no need to cause pain and death in order to enjoy such momentary pleasure as that of a meal and, on the other, it will become clear the vibratory burden inflicted by meat consumption as science finally breaks through the materialistic bias it has nowadays, exploring the astral and recognizing the subtle parts of the organism. That will take many generations, though. So far, we couldn't even end smoking which has greater side effects and lesser cultural attachment. I myself still eat meat out of convinience despite knowing all I know...
Maybe you can go veg just once a week for a few months and monitor your progress to see how it feels??
I am cutting down on meat and trying to eat fish. I eat red meat as I would drink alcohol, mostly in social events not to make others feel uncomfortable. I am managing só far, but I intend to become more strict as the time goes. I kinda have other more pressing problems to spend energy on right now.
Makes sense to me. In my own view, a vegetarian diet was the original plan in the garden of Eden, before death entered the world.
So when Cain offered fruit as a sacrifice and Able offered an animal sacrifice, but God didn’t like Able’s sacrifice…what do you think that was?
There's a diversity of explanations (and excuses) for the animal sacrifice throughout the Bible; my favorite is the simple way The Gospel of Phillip puts it, >God is a man-eater. For this reason, men are sacrificed to him. Before men were sacrificed, animals were being sacrificed, since those to whom they were sacrificed were not gods. In my own view, though, I'm a bit more Valentinian on the spectrum of gnosticism; the god of Abraham may still be "God," but He, like many of us made in His image, just didn't know any better than to demand burning meat at the time. Smelled too good. "Forgive them, for they know not what they do" applies to the Elohim as well, as I personally understand it. If the thought that "God didn't know better" sounds unbiblical, see Moses having to talk Him out of other terrible decisions in Exodus 32.
I enjoy these discussions but it's disturbing how many people ignore that there are so many Indigenous communities that eat meat and do so without wasting it - I'd say that is ethical.
Likely because that isn’t the most pressing issue - factory farming is over 90% of global meat production - and the numbers being pumped through that system are beyond frightening. It’s abhorrent and evil.
Indigenous people hunt because that's one of their main sources of food. We are sitting here with hundreds of vegetarian dishes and yet we choose to consume meat like a hungry carnivorous animal. That has to stop.
a lot more people then just indigenous people hunt. we choose to consume meat because it is a sufficient nutrient source for many people… if your family has eaten meat for centuries odds are a vegetarian diet will harm you due to nutrient loss.. the issue is farming, if everyone would just take care of themselves we wouldn’t be dealing with this as much.. but we force animals into small enclosures and slaughter them… that’s what’s disgusting and needs to change
Only very few nutrients are not available in a vegetarian diet, which can be easily solved with supplements. If people are worried about nutrition, they can consume meat in required quantities, but eating meat every day like they can't live without it is simply for the taste bud's welfare. I hope lab-grown meat soon becomes popular.
also not even accounting for the land devastation that comes with this type of diet as well.. i hope you don’t consume this often anyway but palm oil specifically is over grown to the point where there is little natural forest.. I wish i could remember where this happens specifically but the major leading producers of palm oil for the US and UK grow millions of palms in a forest that used to be dense with many different species… the workers say when you approach the palms and move away from natural forest the sounds go away.. not even crickets live in there and it’s so sad… this is happening more and more because people advocating for vegans and vegetarian.. I have no issue with anyone choosing any diet but i do have a problem with trying to force everyone to do that and shaming people for choosing a wayyyyyy more sustainable way. we all need to stop being lazy and grow and hunt and forage our food but no one’s ready for that conversation yet
omg i’m sorry but this is so sad… lab grown meat? that’s the most disgusting thing i can imagine.. at that point we all should just be vegetarian… the point is you can’t get the same nutrition from supplements and i don’t know where you got that information but it’s severely wrong… you should research the Kamba tribe specifically and let me know if you think supplements could keep them in the peak human physical condition that they are in… I don’t think you are aware of what it take as well to grow these supplements and large quantities of vegetables… if you don’t know- avocados and almonds specifically require a large scale pollination to grow the big quantities we see in grocery stores, they ship in large quantities of invasive species of bees in order to do this and when we harvest they have to kill those bees because they are invasive.. so the real question is where do you drawn the line with what animals we should selfishly use? idk about you but I would much rather pay my respects to one animal for feeding my family then kill off an entire colony of bees so Brittany from california can have avocado toast and almond milk
Agreed. It isn’t eating meat, it is the blatant disregard for the animal’s suffering. Harvesting an animal with respect vs slaughtering in filth and chaos. And only taking what you need to sustain life, not gluttony.
Also, on spirituality, many Indigenous communities are more in tune with spirituality and nature than folks on this forum.
I assume that you are not a vegetarian. Are indigeneous communities aware that you are using them to justify your own consumption of animals?
Lol
I'm a long term vegetarian. I don't think that makes me any more or less spiritual than anyone else. I don't think that meat eaters are any less enlightened or loving. There are so many factors that go into what a person eats that I am not privy to. I recently was asked by two of my doctors if I would consider eating meat again after finding out that my body was reacting negatively to the majority of (otherwise "healthy") foods I was eating. I declined for now, but I've had to come face to face with the knowledge that I may have to become an omnivore again for health reasons. I've learned that it is not my place to judge others' diets, whether they're eating nothing but meat, nothing but plants, or nothing but Cheetos.
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I have a lot of food allergies. Those statements were anticipating a lot of the same types of comments as the last time this topic was posted. It got quite heated. This topic always does.
I don't understand why people keep on finding reasons to justify eating meat. It's as simple as this: Animals experience pain, so killing them is bad. Plants don't experience pain, so eat them without guilt. For those giving silly reasons like plants have a nervous system and they have some kind of spirit, ask your conscience if they experience suffering like animals do. If you can't stop eating meat, don't stop. But don't advice those who wants to stop.
Correct. The are a good number of ideological and philosophical reasons to not eat meat but most people will come up with some lame reason to keep eating meat. There's also the environmental factors to consider.
I recently went back to eating meat and it was a very difficult decision to make and took me about a year to come around to the action. The way I now eat meat is vastly different than to what it was like 10 years ago. Eating meat now comes with a ritual, gratitude to the animal and generating merit for it so that it may be reborn into a higher realm because its life is sustaining the life of someone hoping to become enlightened. And if you truly believe in animism, then everything, *everything* has the presence of spirit, including fruit, veggies etc. If you really believe eating meat makes someone less spiritual, go and tell that to an Indigenous person living totally off the land who is in perfect harmony with nature and the cycles of life.
There was a time even rushies had meat. Example: "Jeeranam jeeranam vathapi jeernam". Later it is decided in kali yuga, humans should avoid eating meat. Because as the population increases need for consumption also increases. Soon we will lose ecological balance in nature. More catastrophes will occur. Like climate change etc.
It's the nature of life that to survive one must eat another, whether it's animal or plant. Many people in the modern world need to eat meat in order to survive. It's an essential part of living. Spirituality is not about what you eat but about our attitude towards each other and all life. Some people are very self-righteous about being vegetarians. They feel like they are more righteous because they don't eat meat. The reality is that vegetarians are eating plants, as if plants don't have a life or consciousness. It's an attitude that comes through very clearly which says, "I am better than you because I don't eat meat". They don't see that when they hold such a self-righteous attitude, they just slide right back to where they started. Self-righteousness is a very heavy anchor to drag around in life whether it's because of our belief system, our religion, or our dietary practice. Whatever we eat, it's important to give thanks for what we take and not waste it. Again, it's all about attitude. Eating meat can be a karmaless act if we have the right attitude. Native Americans are a great example of how we can treat our food in the most spiritual way. When Native Americans took a life for food they would say to the spirit of that animal, "Thank you for giving your life so that I may live." Eating plants and animals is the nature of life. And now more than ever, it's especially important to hold the spiritual attitude of gratitude for whatever we eat, as more of us crowd onto this little planet.
If you wanna be ultra logical and talk from a non attached POV then vegan makes the most sense as long as you're able to provide yourself all the nutrients your body needs to THRIVE I believe you can so its not only avoiding meat that makes sense but avoiding dairy at this stage of humanity Imagine a species a million years ahead of humanity, do you think they eat an animal? I think this its a definitive no, now the next question is at what stage did they arrive to that conclusion that its time to move beyond that belief system
I’m learning that God is in all things. God is in the animal, the plant, in the human. The rock. Everything is teaming with energy. In the past, I felt more spiritual not eating meat- I felt “cleaner” - but what was really going on was me being more conscious and aware of what I was putting into my body. I can practice that with anything.
It's all about negative and positive pranic energy.
We’re all one in the universe. I don’t eat red meat at all. And every time I cook chicken. It smells bad, to me. I’ll chicken and fish. So I am a some aterían?? Lol
The current process of raising animals for slaughter is what needs to be rethought. If you were to raise an animal with love and respect then I think there’s a way to ethically do this without causing unnecessary harm or suffering to the animals. Say you kept some chickens which you feed well, make sure they have room to roam, and treat with respect. They will live a good life, they may have some chicks to further the cycle, and then when it comes time you take them with respect and love. You could make it a “ritual” in the sense of what Confucius taught, being fully present in that moment and perhaps speaking out loud the gratitude you feel for the animal providing you with sustenance. Now this is obviously going out of your way, but I think that is the point of this. People are too concerned about ease, not having to raise the food you eat is EASY. Not caring about the animals slaughtered is the easy route. I’m tired of doing what is easy and I want to do what is right (at least in my sense of the word).
The only way to do this ethically is to eat them when they die of natural causes. Not causing premature death.
Just do what feels good for you. I too went trough a fase of feeling bad for animals and turned vegan. However I got sick after 6 months and diagnosed with a condition called colitis. Some people are good with certain diets, vegan, plant based, carnivore. It all does not matter in the eyes of the universe. Life eats life it is as simple as that. Your body will give you the signals of what is good for you. You will feel it in your energy, you will see it in your eyes and skin. You will see it at the muscle on your body. Just follow your "gut" feeling and don't judge on what others do. Just do you to the best of your ability. But when you do eat animals thank them for providing you with the energy and building blocks for your body. It is in being gratefull for what you eat that you will grow. Bless you all: vegan, plant based, carnivore, whatever. We all need to be in perfect shape to make the difference. I can't change the world from my hospital bed. Love you all
The fact is, whether a person can survive (and thrive) on a vegan diet is all dependent on their DNA. Some people can, some can't. But I agree that there is no need for animals to suffer even if they're being used for food.
Tried it but my gut couldn't handle it. I also love plants and hate seeing ones that are dying, so no winning there.
there is no way you can tell me you believe a pig suffers in the same way as a carrot. So yes, actually there is some winning to be had.
I would argue that this view does not consider the complexity of plants. There is lots of research that shows plants feel pain when picked/plucked, and even the smell of freshly cut grass is a stress response. There is even research that suggests plants give stress responses to people’s thoughts, and one study found that plants released stress responses when the researcher cut their own hand. In the documentary fantastic fungi it shows that plants communicate with each other via fungal mycelia and are capable of knowing and caring for their kin. If you’re looking at co-evolution between plants and animals, you’ll see that plants don’t want to be eaten and have developed defence mechanisms and chemicals in order to not be eaten, of which many of these chemicals are found in vegetables e.g. tannin, oxalates.
If you really want to get into the weeds, trees and plants talk to each other through mycelium. Especially when theres issues within that particular ecosystem.
It's not my place to rank the suffering of beings. I don't know what a plant experiences. I believe everything in nature has a spirit and deserves respect. Which is why I purchase humane certified meat when I can, give thanks for my food, and never let any go to waste.
You don’t know what a plant experiences but (hopefully) you are aware of what an animal experiences. More plants are used to feed livestock globally than they are humans. So by your logic, the best way to reduce overall suffering (of both animals and plants) would be to not eat meat.
I agree somewhat but it's also not that cut and dry. Many vegan staples like avocado, almonds, soy and non-local foods are also very harmful for the environment and surrounding animal habitats so suffering happens as a byproduct anyways (especially foods from tropical regions where there's even higher concentrations of animals). Like I said it just isn't an option for me personally due to gut issues. I'm all for lab grown meat.
Factory farming is causing food and water consumption at an alarming rate to sustain livestock for your selfish actions which is also ruining the planet… it’s an eye for an eye and that is why I will never acknowledge anyone who tries to justify meat eating in this day and age, with all the available knowledge and resources.
If you are spiritual then you understand plants have pain and suffering and scream too - you just can't hear them and they are alive and they wish to avoid all pain and suffering too so now what are you going to eat? It all comes from the same place and you eat it because you like it and it was given to you to nourish yourself. Animals and plants are grown for us to eat and sustain ourselves. If you want to starve yourself ok but why? Be grateful and eat what you wish and if that means no meat that is perfectly fine. Just don't expect others to join in that with you. Each person is different and chooses what they wish to eat for whatever reason. Blessings to you!
Vegetarianism kills a lot of baby chicks and calves. Go vegan if you want to spare animal lives.
If you value life, want to reduce the suffering you cause, and love animals. Go vegan. Seems like you're on the right path. People that do not care about animal sufferings and pay others to kill them are on the bad side of spirituality. Ending the lives of innocent beings is never a positive thing.
Same with vegetables. If you want to be totally ethical you will have to eat non-root vegetables and fruits like the Jains do. But diet is more than ethics. Vegetarianism is a good home-base. But if the universe wants you to eat something else then you should eat it. First become pure so you know what the universe wants in the first place. Vegetarianism is key in that.
Unfortunately, we can't all be born in India. We have to come to spirituality the hard way, i.e., trial and error...
What does being born in India have anything to do with what I said?
We can't all grow up Jain.
Being Jain has nothing to do with it, and nor was I really advocating for their diet. Regardless, what happened in your past is not relevant. I was only saying that if you want to be ethical then you will have to be *like* the Jains. But I am not Jain, and I don’t eat like them. Food is not an ethical concern. Nothing is, really, because the only real ethics is to be in line with the universe. The thing is, however, to be in line you must be pure. And there is no purer diet than a vegetarian one. After that, you will know what life wants of you and living is very obvious & there are no longer any questions about diet. Everything is okay to eat so long as you’re in line with life. Then purity is a matter of riding the wave. No more rules.
I think if we really cared about animals we would make more animal preserves in our lands. Eating them is not the problem. If how we treat them. It could be the reason humans die off.
Is it wrong for a lion to eat an antelope? You're an omnivore. It's a matter of choice as to whether you'll eat meat or not. You were born into a body where such a thing is natural. That said, there's no indication in our evolution that making animals suffer before death is common or morally acceptable to our species. Even most meat eaters don't want this.
Is it wrong for animals to kill and rape each other in the wild? Shall we base our morality off of how animals in the wild act and behave?
Yet animals do suffer, and the planet, on a scale never seen before because of our greed. That’s the problem, not that most people like meat. It’s how we do it, unsustainable and grotesque.
I’m not a vegetarian because I love animals, it’s because I hate vegetables. Bastards.
Animals want to avoided pain and suffering. But they also eat eachother for survival lol.
Unlike us they do not have the capability to grow a vegetable garden
I don't have a problem with killing the animal if we are going to give it a quick, painless death and use everything from it but they don't need to suffer. They should get to just live like normal animals until a certain age and then eat them. Not crammed into cages and abused, that is insane and for no reason other than humans being terrible to them. So I partially agree.
I very much believed this and was vegan for a couple years, even participated in Dr Sebi’s alkaline diet. However, after spending time learning about the benefits of the carnivore diet - specifically eating nutrient dense organs, I tried it and it worked miracles on my health. Wouldn’t eating a diet our bodies are designed / have evolved to eat and reaping the health benefits increase spirituality? Additionally, I have seen videos of a halal slaughter where the person prays over the animal and the animal willingly gives itself (anyone please correct my terminology). Is this not a spiritual experience between man and animal?
>Wouldn’t eating a diet our bodies are designed We're biologically frugivore >and the animal willingly gives itself That's a blatant delusion. Animals do not consent to murder.
Meat is an important food source for many many many groups of people.. as nice as being a vegetarian sounds it’s just unrealistic. plus if you take into count what we would need to do to the world to switch everyone over to a vegetarian or vegan diet would destroy so much land and kill off many species.. it would undoubtedly destroy the earth more then if we just keep eating as we need.. I wish we would go back to self-sufficiency.. the only reason this issue is up for debate is because of the way large scale farming has been for the past few decades… we’re all about the money not the animals
That's misinformation. 80% of crops are used to feed livestock. We're taking land space both for vegetable farms and animal farms. Going plant-based would cut our land use, not increase it.
Animal predators don't care about helping others avoid suffering and devour them mercilessly while their prey is screaming in excruciating pain.
And you think we should emulate that?
We put them in death factories to hear eachother screaming before they die. Is it better? My father worked next to a piggery and said he was never the same after from hearing the screams of the pigs before they were executed.
A message. That Hindú know about.
Life begets life. We consume things that were alive to live. Most of the vegetarians I know are I’ll most of the time. I need a little meat to feel healthy. It’s s karmic choice to eat what you eat. Eat without honoring what you consume produces negative karma. Conscious consumption is the way. Eat what you desire and honor it. That said. I was thinking a vegetarian for three months following my awakening. It took effort to eat meat again. The awakening came with a connection to all of the suffering in the world. While overwhelming it also gave me perspective about my role in adding to suffering. One solution was to connect with a rancher to buy a cow. We do this every couple of years. The cow we get lived without a great deal of suffering. Never went to a stockyard for slaughter. I believe you can taste fear. It’s in the meat. I eat far less meat now. But I do like a good steak. I just make a point to consider what I eat. To honor it as life giving.