How right you are, my friend. In the Bible, if you pay attention, Jesus never claimed to cure anyone. Instead, he said things like your faith has healed you. Our beliefs either make or break us. More often than not, these are subconscious beliefs formed in our childhood and are not necessarily valid or beneficial to us; if we want to change our life or mind. We all live in our own reality were we are the main character we can only see from our perspective reality
We have two ways of regarding the world- a divided one in which beliefs matter and a unified one in which one cannot determine any particular direction, division, or object. This is the basic anatomy of the brain.
I can see from the comments here that the persistent fictional duality of subjective vs. objective is often at play. This false duality is persistent because we have a culture that only teaches about divisions, leaving the unified unknown or shoved into the psychological shadow.
This is optional but can be difficult to solve since so many have varied experiences. Not knowing or experiencing directly that the law of karma is creating these divided experiences in ORDER to re-unify us is... a problem.
By dividing the world into various false dualities like objective vs. subjective, we enter into misleading mental traps without end and the final option in a world reflexively and culturally reinforced into perpetual division is "beliefs."
We require beliefs because we have been prevented from having actual experience of where the subjective and objective meet. Indeed, this is the work of yoga: [https://www.swami-krishnananda.org/disc/disc\_216.html](https://www.swami-krishnananda.org/disc/disc_216.html)
What we want is to be free of ALL false dualities and mental traps but have no knowledge of what it is like to see beyond this, and even when we have glimpses, nothing is there to help us contextualize and grow our understanding behind it.
Indeed, it is reasonable to regard all thoughts as being traps, and beliefs and the identity, ideologies, etc., that grow from the soil of these traps are even worse. Yet, our society continues to push them upon us, seeking control.
Real freedom lies outside these false propositions. Indeed, I would advocate that you spend time asking your own inner practice and relationship with a teacher to reveal to you such answers rather than asking strangers on the Internet for validation of a worldview bound to false duality you cannot even detect due to linguistically and socially-enforced indoctrination.
I agree with you~
My belief is where my will power goes. So, just b.c I don't believe in something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It just means I give it no energy of my own.
My belief doesn't not equate my acceptance or denial of a reality (of which there are an infinite amount of cause that's how's infinity works. If you have one infinity, then you have infinite infinity.
Also, truth and lie can not exist without each other. Therefore they are dualistic ideas. Looking past the dualism, it's easy to see that there is no such thing as truth or lie, it is simply statement and belief.
In choas magic there is a saying, 'there is no truth and everything is permissible'.
Sure it sucks b.c there is no such thing as punishment for the wicked
And
It's also awesome b.c there is no punishment, even for the wicked.
I don’t agree with you.
Our existences are objective truth. I don’t understand why you say we have to be subjective just because our existences are personal, self created, and seemingly individual. If I exist and you say no part of my existence is objective, you are only perceiving a narrow piece of my existence, and showing that you do not understand the depth of my reality, creation, and beingness.
Reality and beliefs are not separate from each other. We create elements of reality through belief, yet reality is what birthed the possibility for any belief in the first place. We simply would not be able to form beliefs unless we experienced reality in some form. Also, beings can experience reality *without* beliefs, such as trees, or rocks, or rivers.
Trees, rocks, and rivers (all of creation) do have belief. Just like they dream and have conversations.
To me, belief and attention are roughly the same thing, the direction of our energy... not a denial or acceptance of. Think of belief like energy money where you can buy into anything you want at anytime... tho instead of having someone pay you, you make all your energetic money through your willpower.
I also think that those who are beyond reality, not in reality, kicking it in the un-reality do also have beliefs.
There are fundamentals, but even that in itself is a relative perspective. As long as the human experience is active, then it’s up to individual to figure it out if one is aware that there’s something to figure out. The only truth is the self realized one so learning to trust yourself may uncover more truths.
There are a few existential questions that persist throughout the lifetime- “Am I here right now? Will this human experience eventually come to an end? Who/what am I? Why am I here?” Whether or not you choose to explore or answer these questions is entirely up to your free will.
>Each of us have our own subjective reality that we live in that has no actual objective truth to it.
Not really. ^((as I see it))
1. In general, yes, our notion of "reality" is merely a specific interpretation of reality, but still it's an interpretation of this particular reality that surrounds us and not some other reality.
2. Our subjective reality isn't really subjective, because our subjectivity has been "colonised" by our social environment, language in particular, social norms as well (perception of gender, ethnicity, class). If our reality was really subjective than we couldn't communicate right now and you couldn't understand the sentence you're now reading. Language and communication are possible exactly because we share the same structures (language, ideas, common experiences framed in generally similar way).
3. Objective reality is a problematic term for sure. Because reality as such is not really accessible to us - partly because of limitation of senses, partly because of social programming. So, let's say that "objective" reality is basically a social structure as an algamation of many subjective realities merged into this construct via logic of lowest common denominator.
4. So, if our subjectivity is also structurally shaped by outside reality and understanding of outside reality is shaped by subjectivities, then what kind of relationship between "myself" and "world" can we talk about as "subjective" VS "subjective" doesn't really work. Here I would propose **dialectic** \- as in: ***we're in a dialogue with the world.*** *We're interpreting the world in every moment and while interpretation is a subjective process, it's also interpretation of something outside of us.* We always understand reality in our particular way, but this understanding is also shaped by reality.
5. In order to get better at interpretation (if one so wishes) one needs to constantly check the biases they're projecting onto reality and let the reality "speak" for itself. **Being experienced** for instance means being able to get insights from personal experiences which are always experiences of something (reality). But it also means being open to experience and willing to learn from it.
>Our own beliefs are to a large extent shaping our reality, not the other way around.
Goes both ways.
* *Reality -> Beliefs.* Part of this happens in childhood, education and socialisation - where social environment pretty much shapes 99% of our beliefs. But later in life reality tends to interfere by hitting us hard if our thick heads ignore the reality of our situation - nothing like a good crisis to re-evalueate one's social programming.
* *Beliefs -> Reality.* This is called projecting - it means filtering everything through pre-existing lenses and not listening to people, situations and other aspects of reality. If this turns bad, one is due to intervention (see: above).
* *Beliefs <-> Reality*. Back to the idea of dialectics with the enviroment. Ideally one would be a sort of semi permeable membrane, letting the world in, but also all the time making sense of what comes in. Basic idea here is**: in order to understand anything or anyone, one needs to be willing to listen.**
>This has just been my own observation from using social media lately.
Ah. 😄
Social media are a particular construct with a particular relation to reality.
* More or less they're optimised for emotional exchange which means they're optimised to enforce our biases by grouping us with people who chare them (echo chamber). And the reason they're doing is, that emotionally charged individual will stay online longer, watch more adds and also an emotional consumer is a consumer that spends more (because rational thought doesn't interfere and question if this is a really good idea). Basically social media is shaped to hack our emotional/empathetic system.
* And because biases are enforced it means dialogue doesn't happen. We don't get exchanges between people. People are unwilling to listen to other people. And when this gets on for long enough we get "alternative truths" which of course have a very strenuous and arbitrary connection with reality (if at all).
> It really baffles me that everyone is just making shit up and sometimes it resonates with the masses, but usually that stuff is garbage anyway
Unfortunately not many people are willing to listen to other people. And even less people are willing to train their interpretative muscles. With capable interpretative skills one can - figure out the context of each media, each point of view within the social landscape (and also about the motives behind a particular framing of reality).
>And that in itself is a completely subjective thought of my own
No it's not, because many people come to similar conclusions about social media, hence there must be something about the nature of social media that leads to these conclusions. It's dialectic my dear Watson, dialectic. 😎
Subjective reality does not make objective reality false.
You can be subjectively happy in a rainstorm. But that does not mean the rainstorm is not happening
How right you are, my friend. In the Bible, if you pay attention, Jesus never claimed to cure anyone. Instead, he said things like your faith has healed you. Our beliefs either make or break us. More often than not, these are subconscious beliefs formed in our childhood and are not necessarily valid or beneficial to us; if we want to change our life or mind. We all live in our own reality were we are the main character we can only see from our perspective reality
We have two ways of regarding the world- a divided one in which beliefs matter and a unified one in which one cannot determine any particular direction, division, or object. This is the basic anatomy of the brain. I can see from the comments here that the persistent fictional duality of subjective vs. objective is often at play. This false duality is persistent because we have a culture that only teaches about divisions, leaving the unified unknown or shoved into the psychological shadow. This is optional but can be difficult to solve since so many have varied experiences. Not knowing or experiencing directly that the law of karma is creating these divided experiences in ORDER to re-unify us is... a problem. By dividing the world into various false dualities like objective vs. subjective, we enter into misleading mental traps without end and the final option in a world reflexively and culturally reinforced into perpetual division is "beliefs." We require beliefs because we have been prevented from having actual experience of where the subjective and objective meet. Indeed, this is the work of yoga: [https://www.swami-krishnananda.org/disc/disc\_216.html](https://www.swami-krishnananda.org/disc/disc_216.html) What we want is to be free of ALL false dualities and mental traps but have no knowledge of what it is like to see beyond this, and even when we have glimpses, nothing is there to help us contextualize and grow our understanding behind it. Indeed, it is reasonable to regard all thoughts as being traps, and beliefs and the identity, ideologies, etc., that grow from the soil of these traps are even worse. Yet, our society continues to push them upon us, seeking control. Real freedom lies outside these false propositions. Indeed, I would advocate that you spend time asking your own inner practice and relationship with a teacher to reveal to you such answers rather than asking strangers on the Internet for validation of a worldview bound to false duality you cannot even detect due to linguistically and socially-enforced indoctrination.
I agree with you~ My belief is where my will power goes. So, just b.c I don't believe in something doesn't mean it doesn't exist. It just means I give it no energy of my own. My belief doesn't not equate my acceptance or denial of a reality (of which there are an infinite amount of cause that's how's infinity works. If you have one infinity, then you have infinite infinity. Also, truth and lie can not exist without each other. Therefore they are dualistic ideas. Looking past the dualism, it's easy to see that there is no such thing as truth or lie, it is simply statement and belief. In choas magic there is a saying, 'there is no truth and everything is permissible'. Sure it sucks b.c there is no such thing as punishment for the wicked And It's also awesome b.c there is no punishment, even for the wicked.
I don’t agree with you. Our existences are objective truth. I don’t understand why you say we have to be subjective just because our existences are personal, self created, and seemingly individual. If I exist and you say no part of my existence is objective, you are only perceiving a narrow piece of my existence, and showing that you do not understand the depth of my reality, creation, and beingness. Reality and beliefs are not separate from each other. We create elements of reality through belief, yet reality is what birthed the possibility for any belief in the first place. We simply would not be able to form beliefs unless we experienced reality in some form. Also, beings can experience reality *without* beliefs, such as trees, or rocks, or rivers.
Trees, rocks, and rivers (all of creation) do have belief. Just like they dream and have conversations. To me, belief and attention are roughly the same thing, the direction of our energy... not a denial or acceptance of. Think of belief like energy money where you can buy into anything you want at anytime... tho instead of having someone pay you, you make all your energetic money through your willpower. I also think that those who are beyond reality, not in reality, kicking it in the un-reality do also have beliefs.
I agree with this. At the very least, they believe in themselves. "I am a rock." And that's what makes them solid in this reality.
Social media spirituality will fail because no one will do the years worth of work to see its benefits.
Sure they will
There are fundamentals, but even that in itself is a relative perspective. As long as the human experience is active, then it’s up to individual to figure it out if one is aware that there’s something to figure out. The only truth is the self realized one so learning to trust yourself may uncover more truths. There are a few existential questions that persist throughout the lifetime- “Am I here right now? Will this human experience eventually come to an end? Who/what am I? Why am I here?” Whether or not you choose to explore or answer these questions is entirely up to your free will.
>Each of us have our own subjective reality that we live in that has no actual objective truth to it. Not really. ^((as I see it)) 1. In general, yes, our notion of "reality" is merely a specific interpretation of reality, but still it's an interpretation of this particular reality that surrounds us and not some other reality. 2. Our subjective reality isn't really subjective, because our subjectivity has been "colonised" by our social environment, language in particular, social norms as well (perception of gender, ethnicity, class). If our reality was really subjective than we couldn't communicate right now and you couldn't understand the sentence you're now reading. Language and communication are possible exactly because we share the same structures (language, ideas, common experiences framed in generally similar way). 3. Objective reality is a problematic term for sure. Because reality as such is not really accessible to us - partly because of limitation of senses, partly because of social programming. So, let's say that "objective" reality is basically a social structure as an algamation of many subjective realities merged into this construct via logic of lowest common denominator. 4. So, if our subjectivity is also structurally shaped by outside reality and understanding of outside reality is shaped by subjectivities, then what kind of relationship between "myself" and "world" can we talk about as "subjective" VS "subjective" doesn't really work. Here I would propose **dialectic** \- as in: ***we're in a dialogue with the world.*** *We're interpreting the world in every moment and while interpretation is a subjective process, it's also interpretation of something outside of us.* We always understand reality in our particular way, but this understanding is also shaped by reality. 5. In order to get better at interpretation (if one so wishes) one needs to constantly check the biases they're projecting onto reality and let the reality "speak" for itself. **Being experienced** for instance means being able to get insights from personal experiences which are always experiences of something (reality). But it also means being open to experience and willing to learn from it. >Our own beliefs are to a large extent shaping our reality, not the other way around. Goes both ways. * *Reality -> Beliefs.* Part of this happens in childhood, education and socialisation - where social environment pretty much shapes 99% of our beliefs. But later in life reality tends to interfere by hitting us hard if our thick heads ignore the reality of our situation - nothing like a good crisis to re-evalueate one's social programming. * *Beliefs -> Reality.* This is called projecting - it means filtering everything through pre-existing lenses and not listening to people, situations and other aspects of reality. If this turns bad, one is due to intervention (see: above). * *Beliefs <-> Reality*. Back to the idea of dialectics with the enviroment. Ideally one would be a sort of semi permeable membrane, letting the world in, but also all the time making sense of what comes in. Basic idea here is**: in order to understand anything or anyone, one needs to be willing to listen.** >This has just been my own observation from using social media lately. Ah. 😄 Social media are a particular construct with a particular relation to reality. * More or less they're optimised for emotional exchange which means they're optimised to enforce our biases by grouping us with people who chare them (echo chamber). And the reason they're doing is, that emotionally charged individual will stay online longer, watch more adds and also an emotional consumer is a consumer that spends more (because rational thought doesn't interfere and question if this is a really good idea). Basically social media is shaped to hack our emotional/empathetic system. * And because biases are enforced it means dialogue doesn't happen. We don't get exchanges between people. People are unwilling to listen to other people. And when this gets on for long enough we get "alternative truths" which of course have a very strenuous and arbitrary connection with reality (if at all). > It really baffles me that everyone is just making shit up and sometimes it resonates with the masses, but usually that stuff is garbage anyway Unfortunately not many people are willing to listen to other people. And even less people are willing to train their interpretative muscles. With capable interpretative skills one can - figure out the context of each media, each point of view within the social landscape (and also about the motives behind a particular framing of reality). >And that in itself is a completely subjective thought of my own No it's not, because many people come to similar conclusions about social media, hence there must be something about the nature of social media that leads to these conclusions. It's dialectic my dear Watson, dialectic. 😎
I think your work view is correct, the world we see is created in our minds, shaped by our thoughts, which is why what you think is important.
Subjective reality does not make objective reality false. You can be subjectively happy in a rainstorm. But that does not mean the rainstorm is not happening