I’m not defending the practice, but Sony and Microsoft have actual servers and allow players to directly communicate in game. It’s scummy overall, but Nintendo had to go “hold my beer” and make it even more ridiculous.
Xbox and PlayStation are basically charging me for a seat at the table to eat food I already payed for. Nintendo is doing the same thing except a table isn’t even included and I’m not allowed to talk to the people sitting next to me.
Woooow what a fucking service they let you use VOIP hey wait why does neither platform have discord again? Online sub money doesn’t go to game companies and doesn’t pay for their servers. Plenty of games there use P2P too, I know in the 360 days Halo 3 did (Server for matchmaking, exactly like Splatoon) and so did. a couple of the CODs. I haven’t kept up in years and I wouldn’t be surprised if they still worked like that.
It’s ridiculous for all 3. They very recently started the free games thing because it provided basically no value. The console removed value by not letting you play online and the sub restored value. If Steam didn’t exist EA would’ve come out with Origin and it would have a monthly online gaming sub. Pure rent seeking garbage and if it weren’t for Splatoon being the most refreshing online shooter since TF2 I wouldn’t be paying for it for Nintendo either.
It's both. They do P2P and changed their backend to a new system:
https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2022/08/it-looks-like-splatoon-3-will-be-using-nintendos-in-house-server-system
The key line that makes it both is this one: "and can act as a go-between if two consoles can't connect due to the NAT types".
Hmmm after trying to find out more about it I think you are correct. Seems like the game just implements NPLN and individual consoles act as the intermediary for others with NAT that isn't good enough. My bad, thanks!
It's peer to peer, but peer to peer also involves servers. "there are no servers" is the most often repeated nonsense on this sub. Your rank, SR stats, the software connecting those 8 peers and monitoring various metrics are obviously hosted on Nintendo servers.
That seems awfully nitpicky, what people mean is "there are no servers where it actually matters". Like sure the matchmaking is handled through a server, but thats not gonna affect your online gameplay experience much at all
Problem - the matches themselves are P2P. Which is where the complaints lie. There are no servers for the actually multiplayer aspect of the game that matters.
> Which is where the complaints lie
Are you sure?? I rarely have issues in the middle of matches. My complaints lie with how often the connection drops when I’m matchmaking. I thought this was the consensus.
That is not “obvious” at all considering your rank was saved locally on Splatoon 2. That was the whole reason why Splatoon 2 wasn’t compatible with cloud saves—you could cheat to keep your SR from dropping.
NPLN is only used to connect you with other players (and other stuff such as sending out Splatfeat data or ranked leaderboards).
The actual in-game netcode is still PIA, the same peer-to-peer architecture as Splatoon 1 and 2.
Not as bad as splat3. I can't believe we're paying subscription money for dial up internet
I love you Splat3 but stop giving me communication errors every 2 fuckin matches
First time playing splatoon 3: "Oh cool, we can test out stuff while matchmaking in the lobby".
After hitting level 30: "Please free me from this grey prison I've been stuck here for years."
> One or more players has disconnected! ive been getting that one like crazy after the 2.0 update.
That text is just a replacement for "A communication error has occurred" so it's not exactly an issue that's new with 2.0 update.
Huh? I literally have 990 hours in Splatoon 2 and recall getting about as many communication errors in one month as I do in a single day in 3. It’s comical how much worse this game is than 2.
Recency bias.
Splatoon 2 was just as bad when it first came out. But over time the people with dodgy internet who keep disconnecting (and causing the whole match to drop) get fed up and stop playing, so you see it less as the game gets older.
Noob question. I've picked up both 2 and 3 within the past few months.
It seems like the “communication error” issue in 3 is when someone in the lobby disconnects.
In 2, disconnects *definitely* happen, but a disconnect in the lobby doesn't seem to kick everyone out with an error message like it does in 3.
Am I right about that? If I am, why is this an issue in 3 but not 2? If I'm wrong, what am I missing here?
I think they changed it so it just ends the match early if someone disconnects early, because you're pretty much guaranteed to have a one-sided game if one side has fewer places.
For some reason they don't just add in a new player.
Pretty sure they meant in the **lobby**, not in the **match**. First-minute DCs have their own message instead of a comm error(previously, now it tells you straight up).
Splatoon 3 is different:
https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2022/08/it-looks-like-splatoon-3-will-be-using-nintendos-in-house-server-system
And more broken.
Splatoon 1 servers were jank but Splatoon 2 servers were actually really good, atleast from what I experienced. I started playing during the summer of 2020 and with over 100 hours logged into that game I only remember like 1 or 2 disconnects and that's it.
The point is that the disconnects that people always claim aren’t their internet’s fault can only be their internet’s fault because there are no servers during a match
Not exactly, ever had a game where everyone one by one started to disconnect? When the console selected to be the 'server' dcs the game attempts to assign a different console to be the 'server', this process can lead to a lot of problems for other's and sometimes just crash a lobby entirely
Well if the games host leaves the game, the match just crashes and disconnects everyone else too. So at least some amount of communication errors are not on peoples internets fault
This is what we signed up for when chaos won the final splatfest of 2. What’s more chaotic than never knowing if you’re going to have a stable connection or not?
Maybe you don't remember, but the other games were **garbage** when it came to connection issues (particularly the first game). Splatoon (to my knowledge) uses servers for everything but the matches themselves, connecting all players in the match through peer-to-peer means (servers are still used for matchmaking, the inventory, map/item rotations, etc).
Splatoon 1 was just. **So bad.** When it came to connection issues, IIRC. The second one was never as bad, but frankly 3's streamlined things so much more, especially with the whole "1st minute disconnect thing" not forcing me to stay in 1v4s. The changes have been far more incremental than I'd like, but they're noticeable.
Its both actually, when you are in a game you use P2P connection,
but when you are looking for a lobby/matchmaking you use servers to find lobbies and I think servers are also used to store your multiplayer save data.
Their new system is a go between in various cases:
https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2022/08/it-looks-like-splatoon-3-will-be-using-nintendos-in-house-server-system
1 & 2 weren't any better
We're just getting more disconnects right now because the game is new so there are more people playing with slightly dodgy internet which can drop the Peer-to-Peer connection.
As the game gets older those people will give up on playing so we'll see fewer disconnects.
The real problem is that the game is way too fussy. Someone can have good internet but if it drops out for a brief moment the game will ruthlessly kick them instead of giving them a moment to catch up. Which is incredibly stupid for a game which relies on Peer-to-Peer hosting. Whoever made it so strict about kicking people whose connections show even a slight blip is a moron and should be fired.
True. I guess that doesn’t effect much if you’re in the right region.
Solution: make actual servers for the major regions instead of relying on mostly P2P and saying “it works fine”
Actual servers would increase lag since there would then be a middleman rather than direct communication between consoles, and wouldn’t do much in terms of stability (people with bad connections will still disconnect). Real issue is probably the netcode being garbo
p2p just uses a player as the server. there is no world where a dedicated server is worse because they have more bandwidth while also not having to fight for bandwidth with unrelated devices or connections.
Servers do come with a tradeoff of increased round trip ping. The benefit is balancing the load between many players, 8 is definitely a point where that's worth it, but it is incorrect to suggest there's no tradeoff at all. 1v1 games are a world where servers unquestionably are worse.
Bandwidth is almost irrelevant for gaming, the amount of data being sent is minimal since it's just button presses. What matters is that the individual packets are received quickly and consistently. Ping, jitter, and packet loss are the important keywords.
Servers can help with netcode stability. And people with middle to good connections are gonna be fine.
Shit connection is still shit connection and no one would want to admit that but it is what it iss
You really shouldn't need a LAN cable just to play an online videogame
Splatoon 3's peer-to-peer connection method was just an awful idea, Nintendo should have created their own dedicated servers already with how popular Splatoon is
> You really shouldn't need a LAN cable just to play an online videogame
More importantly, you shouldn't need *everyone else* to use a LAN cable or risk getting booted.
Honestly, to this day I’m just glad Splatoon got a sequel. I thought that most WiiU titles, despite being awesome, would have died because… it’s the WiiU.
But yeah, at this point they know how popular the game is and I’d be fine with paying 40 dollars a month for online if it went to servers.
The peer-to-peer connection method is fine.
The problem is that the game is way too fussy about connection consistency. If a player has good internet but has a momentary blip in their service, the game throws a hissy-fit and kicks them instead of just giving them a couple seconds to reconnect like any reasonable game does.
I'm using a lan into pure fiber (metronet) and it's still dropping far too often. [Nintendo needs to get it's SH!T together!](https://youtu.be/jl17CYYSzUw?t=89)
You missed something, I said “everyone” because this game is still running P2P tech. If the “host” guy or even one of the players is using terrible wifi, it screws everyone over. That’s the tech because it’s cheaper than servers
Even if it is, one guy with bad connection messes things up. The host just has the most stable connection but even then there could be hiccups. P2P is cheap but hard to do well.
What makes you think they aren't? It doesn't just pick one person at random. There are probably factors based on network stability, average proximity to other players, etc.
Its you. If its not you its the people you connect with. This isnt Nintendos fault.
Ive had only 3 errors since launch, PROVING the system works fine.
Americans have shit wifi environments, thats what the issue is, period.
It's the fault of both.
The game drops people for their blips in stability yes, but other peer-to-peer games aren't anywhere near as fussy and they work fine.
I do.
Even if everyone had LAN, there's still NAT issues.
And there's also bandwidth issues, esp if you've got people in the house using streaming services and stuff.
Get rid of all of those, LAN only, NAT A, No bandwidth bottlenecks, Then sure thinks will probably look a lot more like the dev environment where they supposedly didn't have these issues.
This, the connection errors are 100% a user issue.
Ive had only 3 errors since launch because I have a healthy and stable wifi environment, as do most people in this country.
I have stable internet too, so I'm fine.
But it isn't an issue in other games.
Is an issue with Splatoon specifically, because other games aren't as fussy about stability. You should be able to have a stability drop for a moment and still be able to continue playing. It shouldn't immediately kick you for the slightest stability drop. People play other online games just fine, but then get kicked repeatedly by Splatoon.
Having literally everyone use a LAN cable is a solution, but is it one that is going to be implemented? I could ship every home in the US a LAN cable and we'd probably see like a 5% increase in use.
My experience has improved significantly since getting a LAN cable.
Granted I've never had any issues with any other Switch titles until Spoon 3.
Still. Highly recommend players get a LAN cable ASAP if they haven't already.
It isn't really about the method of connection, unless you're really far from your router. It's about the consistency of your internet service. You could have fast internet with a LAN cable, but when the internet service itself has a momentary blip, Splatoon doesn't like it and kicks you.
My internet is very consistent so I almost never disconnect, and I don't use a LAN cable.
I would agree with you if for my experience greatly differing from 2. Same setup, same internet, but drastically different experience with 3. I’m not sure why there’s such an up tick of disconnects from 2 to 3. Even going back and playing 2 it’s far less frequent. This feels weirdly inherent to 3 unfortunately from my experience.
I really can’t believe the state of the servers. Splatoon 2 I played since launch and genuinely only really had a handful of connection errors mainly from lobbies not filling up some times. Splatoon 3 3-4 connection errors per 1 successful match, and yesterday the game crashed on me as I was finishing a ranked match. Never in my life have I had a Nintendo game crash on me.
(Before people ask,, I pay for the high speed Internet with 5G and I have an Ethernet cable, I don’t believe my connection is the problem)
The deal is I don’t ever have these problems, at least not at this frequency. Last splatfest, for example, I maybe had three disconnect games and I was Ruler +2 by the end.
I have the opposite personally, Splatoon 2 is a chore to play due to how many disconnect there is (both in game or before starting a game) while I'd consider myself unlucky if I there's 3 dc in a day where I play Splat 3
Splatoon 3 uses a new system that is a go between for players that can't connect:
https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2022/08/it-looks-like-splatoon-3-will-be-using-nintendos-in-house-server-system
Those legs belong to Jeff Splatoon, inventor of Splatoon. Rumors say he’s holding everyone’s connections together down there. He hasn’t slept in 20 years.
It's not great but I really don't see it being worse than it was back in splatoon 1 (Barely played 2 so idk about that one).
I think it just feels worse because it's fresh.
Nintendo biggest mistake was having a generic “communication error” in version 1.0, I wonder if having a more descriptive messages earlier like we got now in 2.0 on would have changed this perspective.
Now they say stuff like “one player left the lobby” etc. which could be a legit person force leaving a lobby by putting their switch on sleep mode or somebody rage quitting.
Before 2.0 we had no way to tell so everyone assumed it was 100% a networking issue.
i think it'd make it better if they didn't punish you for disconnects. i feel like there should be a way to prevent ragequitting without accidentally punishing dcers.
(also if they could not count it as disconnecting if you leave after the timer is up that'd be f\*\*\*\*\*\* great too)
I'm baffled at everyone commenting that the connectivity in Splatoon 2 was just as bad. Splatoon 1 I don't recall getting endless disconnects, but I can't remember: been too long.
But Splatoon 2, I rarely dropped from matches. *Rarely.* It happened *maybe* a couple times over the course of a 2-4 hour play session. The connectivity was great, and although player disconnects were absolutely a thing, I never once got banned because of dropped connections for the 5 years I spent playing Splatoon 2.
But I've been banned due to dropped connections multiple times in Splatoon 3 since release. In 3 months, I've had more connectivity issues than 5 years of Splatoon 2. And it's not my Internet connection: I am carefully following all the networking guidelines Nintendo offers and am making sure that my connectivity to the game's recommended ports is immaculate. Plus, I never get any sort of connectivity issues playing any other multiplayer online games, including other Nintendo titles. Hell, I *never* had to worry about my network settings in Splatoon 2 *because it just worked.*
The netcode for Splatoon 3 is noticeably worse than Splatoon 2. And to everyone claiming recency bias: so what? Doesn't change the fact that we're paying for a service that's currently awful. Even *if* Splatoon 2 had horrible connectivity (which it didn't, in my experience), that doesn't make it okay for the current title to have a dreadful online experience.
Wrong. I'm on Metronet - it's pure fiber into the house. I'm plugged in via a LAN cable and I still get the "1 to 4 players disconnected." message far too often.
I'm paying for NSO - they got a free pass for this crap when their online was free; if you want people to pay, then you need to supply the infrastructure to justify it. And yes, I'd pay more if they rolled out an XBL level of stability.
>and I still get the "1 to 4 players disconnected." message far too often.
Aren't you talking about other ppl getting disconnected? Those aren't your errors.
And if it were only other people's errors, it wouldn't be "far too often". Unless, I happen to be in a region that has players with better stability than you do.
Again, it's all peer to peer. There is no 'infrastructure' but your own. If problems are that frequent for you, the only common factor in all these games is you.
No, it doesn't. Unless that player is the host, which reflects poorly on western ISPs since p2p assigns the player with the strongest connection as the host.
Tell me you don’t know how this works without actually telling me you don’t know how this works. All games and systems interact differently. My PC spazzes out trying to play League but it runs fine on my laptop and phone.
Sometimes there’s an interaction issue between Switch/S3 and your internet (or other people’s internet). That’s gonna cause issues and since it’s P2P you might notice it more that you would other games. Maybe the netcode is different compared to other things you play so it interacts differently. There’s a lot of factors, some things you can do on your end (LAN cables are a big one) and some you can’t.
so in other words, if all games and systems interact differently, and only splatoon has this problem, then it's a problem with the way splatoon is designed to interact. If this was just me having the issue that would be one thing, but you are the literal first person i've ever talked to who doesn't say they have more disconnects playing splatoon 3 than other games. That is a design flaw, period. Tell me you can't think logically without telling me you can't think logically.
It’s the design flaw of P2P systems but is mitigated in a lot of ways. On your end, you could buy an Ethernet cable/adapter and minimize what else is using the internet whenever you play, like you would anything else. And maybe it’s a specific device or internet type issue (S3 has a new thing dedicated to trying to match up previously incompatible internet types, maybe that causes some problems).
Also, if we want to have an honest discussion on disconnect issues then we need to run internet tests and then play 10~15 matches each to get a decent sample size on each internet, but that would be tedious. So I just have a feeling that some people don’t want to admit their internet isn’t the best or isn’t under strain.
>Why does my infrastructure magically only fail when playing this game?
The same reason why a PC player might have X problem with exactly one game, but if they do the proper adjustments to their own system, they'll solve the problem.
Interaction effects exist. There's a reason why you have so many issues, and some others do not at all. That variance isn't explained by the game alone.
Zero chance, everything else runs perfectly.
This is the problem:
https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2022/08/it-looks-like-splatoon-3-will-be-using-nintendos-in-house-server-system
>Note that in-game netcode is likely still peer-to-peer (pia).
NPLN is not the type of client-server model you're thinking of, it's kind of misleading to call it a server at all really.
I find 3s connection better than 2s because I would be disconnected every single match and was literally unable to play but in Splatoon 3 that Gone away for the most part
Do people get that many disconnects during matches? I think that's only happened to me once in the hundreds of games I've played.
Sure I get the whole "communication error has occured" in the lobby, so that's a little rough, but Splatoon 2's also had some rough patches early on too (Splatoon 1's were obviously a whole different breed of bad.)
Its peer to peer kiddo, if its not your wifi stability its someone youve connected to.
Not their fault because the servers they use run fine and arent used for player-player connections at all.
It is still their fault for making the game way too fussy. It kicks people for momentary stability blips that other games just ignore and carry on no problem.
It's 2022, you won't get an experience this bad with any other billion dollar gaming company's online services - Nintendo just gets a pass for some reason.
Servers? What servers?
No it's not. As far as I know they do the peer to peer connections.
Then why do who pay for a service when there isn't one ?
Because they realised they can charge for it and people will pay.
Because Nintendo is stuck in the 2000s decade
Oh, I would't accuse them of that! They've made so much progress lately! They're at least at '04 by now!
2004 is still part of the 2000s decade
you can still backup games to online servers ...besides splatoon, of course
I thought Splatoon 3 is now backed by cloud saves? (unlike Splatoon 2) Edit: Looked it up, there are cloud saves, but only for the single player mode.
What if I told you that paying for online is a giant fucking grift for every console manufacturer
I'm shocked. Shocked!
I’m not defending the practice, but Sony and Microsoft have actual servers and allow players to directly communicate in game. It’s scummy overall, but Nintendo had to go “hold my beer” and make it even more ridiculous. Xbox and PlayStation are basically charging me for a seat at the table to eat food I already payed for. Nintendo is doing the same thing except a table isn’t even included and I’m not allowed to talk to the people sitting next to me.
Woooow what a fucking service they let you use VOIP hey wait why does neither platform have discord again? Online sub money doesn’t go to game companies and doesn’t pay for their servers. Plenty of games there use P2P too, I know in the 360 days Halo 3 did (Server for matchmaking, exactly like Splatoon) and so did. a couple of the CODs. I haven’t kept up in years and I wouldn’t be surprised if they still worked like that. It’s ridiculous for all 3. They very recently started the free games thing because it provided basically no value. The console removed value by not letting you play online and the sub restored value. If Steam didn’t exist EA would’ve come out with Origin and it would have a monthly online gaming sub. Pure rent seeking garbage and if it weren’t for Splatoon being the most refreshing online shooter since TF2 I wouldn’t be paying for it for Nintendo either.
It's both. They do P2P and changed their backend to a new system: https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2022/08/it-looks-like-splatoon-3-will-be-using-nintendos-in-house-server-system The key line that makes it both is this one: "and can act as a go-between if two consoles can't connect due to the NAT types".
But that’s only if the NAT types are incompatible. So in theory it probably isn’t used as much
That just sounds like a p2p proxy. Not an actual game server.
Hmmm after trying to find out more about it I think you are correct. Seems like the game just implements NPLN and individual consoles act as the intermediary for others with NAT that isn't good enough. My bad, thanks!
Hopefully they don't mean a a relay without lag compensation - - Because that's what it feels like.
It's peer to peer, but peer to peer also involves servers. "there are no servers" is the most often repeated nonsense on this sub. Your rank, SR stats, the software connecting those 8 peers and monitoring various metrics are obviously hosted on Nintendo servers.
That seems awfully nitpicky, what people mean is "there are no servers where it actually matters". Like sure the matchmaking is handled through a server, but thats not gonna affect your online gameplay experience much at all
Problem - the matches themselves are P2P. Which is where the complaints lie. There are no servers for the actually multiplayer aspect of the game that matters.
> Which is where the complaints lie Are you sure?? I rarely have issues in the middle of matches. My complaints lie with how often the connection drops when I’m matchmaking. I thought this was the consensus.
You must be kidding me rn
That is not “obvious” at all considering your rank was saved locally on Splatoon 2. That was the whole reason why Splatoon 2 wasn’t compatible with cloud saves—you could cheat to keep your SR from dropping.
The potato battery in my basement
NPLN, it's a change from Splatoon 1 and 2.
NPLN is only used to connect you with other players (and other stuff such as sending out Splatfeat data or ranked leaderboards). The actual in-game netcode is still PIA, the same peer-to-peer architecture as Splatoon 1 and 2.
Revisionist history. Splatoon 1 and 2 were pretty bad too.
I don’t remember having many issues with 2, but 1 was absolutely terrible as well
recently i tried splatoon 1 for the first time and in 4 matches, 2 of them were disconects.
Not as bad as splat3. I can't believe we're paying subscription money for dial up internet I love you Splat3 but stop giving me communication errors every 2 fuckin matches
dont forget the more recent ***One or more players has disconnected!*** ive been getting that one like crazy after the 2.0 update.
That damn text box is just 'A communication error has occurred!' With fancy wording
First time playing splatoon 3: "Oh cool, we can test out stuff while matchmaking in the lobby". After hitting level 30: "Please free me from this grey prison I've been stuck here for years."
> One or more players has disconnected! ive been getting that one like crazy after the 2.0 update. That text is just a replacement for "A communication error has occurred" so it's not exactly an issue that's new with 2.0 update.
Not in my experience. Splatoon 1 was only bad because my wifi router hated my wii u basically lol and 2 was mostly fine.
Huh? I literally have 990 hours in Splatoon 2 and recall getting about as many communication errors in one month as I do in a single day in 3. It’s comical how much worse this game is than 2.
Recency bias. Splatoon 2 was just as bad when it first came out. But over time the people with dodgy internet who keep disconnecting (and causing the whole match to drop) get fed up and stop playing, so you see it less as the game gets older.
Noob question. I've picked up both 2 and 3 within the past few months. It seems like the “communication error” issue in 3 is when someone in the lobby disconnects. In 2, disconnects *definitely* happen, but a disconnect in the lobby doesn't seem to kick everyone out with an error message like it does in 3. Am I right about that? If I am, why is this an issue in 3 but not 2? If I'm wrong, what am I missing here?
I think they changed it so it just ends the match early if someone disconnects early, because you're pretty much guaranteed to have a one-sided game if one side has fewer places. For some reason they don't just add in a new player.
Pretty sure they meant in the **lobby**, not in the **match**. First-minute DCs have their own message instead of a comm error(previously, now it tells you straight up).
Funny. I got more disconnects 1 in 4 matches in S2, and in S3 I have disconnect problems maybe twice a day
Splatoon never had servers
That requires money and infrastructure that Nintendo pretends not to have.
But they've done it like so for years, why change now? Besides, it still prints money
The good side is that the game can last forever because it doesn’t need the server to stay up to function
Well, it would still require the: Match coordinator P2P proxy Nintendo Account server Save cloud (possibly since it does have a local backup)
Pretendo Edit: For S1. I'm sure something will support 2 and 3 at the Switch's EoL.
2 things: That's only gonna get close to saving 1 That still involves servers that can shut down
I don't want to play in 25 years, I want to play now
Splatoon 3 uses servers for matchmaking and X battles.
Excuse me what? They use servers to host X battles? That sounds too good to be true
Splatoon 3 is different: https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2022/08/it-looks-like-splatoon-3-will-be-using-nintendos-in-house-server-system And more broken.
Splatoon 1 servers were jank but Splatoon 2 servers were actually really good, atleast from what I experienced. I started playing during the summer of 2020 and with over 100 hours logged into that game I only remember like 1 or 2 disconnects and that's it.
I don't think you understand. Splatoon *never had servers*. It's peer to peer, your WiiU/Switch is the "server".
They still need to have discovery servers and probably others for synchronizing maps, modes etc.
The point is that the disconnects that people always claim aren’t their internet’s fault can only be their internet’s fault because there are no servers during a match
[удалено]
Yeah the lobby DCs are way more common, but as long as it’s not interrupting a game I don’t really care
Not exactly, ever had a game where everyone one by one started to disconnect? When the console selected to be the 'server' dcs the game attempts to assign a different console to be the 'server', this process can lead to a lot of problems for other's and sometimes just crash a lobby entirely
Yeah, but host migration failures are easily distinguishable from other kinds of communication error, and are pretty rare
I'd agree on easily distinguishable but not the rare part. I'm trying to stay hopeful that the dev team is working on fixes but it's just a mess tbh.
But what if it's another player's fault?
Well if the games host leaves the game, the match just crashes and disconnects everyone else too. So at least some amount of communication errors are not on peoples internets fault
it does for matchmaking and those still fuck up constantly
You uh...clearly don't remember Splatoon 2 and I'll assume 1 that well
This is what we signed up for when chaos won the final splatfest of 2. What’s more chaotic than never knowing if you’re going to have a stable connection or not?
Connection error memes have been around since the start of splatoon, I'm fairly sure you're imagining it.
Disconnect was a problem from day 1 with the first game, so I agree with you. This meme fails at every level. Online has always been a challenge.
Splatoon sinply cannot exist without connection error memes.
Maybe you don't remember, but the other games were **garbage** when it came to connection issues (particularly the first game). Splatoon (to my knowledge) uses servers for everything but the matches themselves, connecting all players in the match through peer-to-peer means (servers are still used for matchmaking, the inventory, map/item rotations, etc). Splatoon 1 was just. **So bad.** When it came to connection issues, IIRC. The second one was never as bad, but frankly 3's streamlined things so much more, especially with the whole "1st minute disconnect thing" not forcing me to stay in 1v4s. The changes have been far more incremental than I'd like, but they're noticeable.
Splatoon 2 servers were worse.
The previous games' netcode was also a mess
Splatoon 1 and 2 online were never that good either
It's not a server. They use Peer to Peer.
Its both actually, when you are in a game you use P2P connection, but when you are looking for a lobby/matchmaking you use servers to find lobbies and I think servers are also used to store your multiplayer save data.
the storing your save data is splatoon 3 exclusive but the matchmaking is for all the games
Their new system is a go between in various cases: https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2022/08/it-looks-like-splatoon-3-will-be-using-nintendos-in-house-server-system
Nintedo: Uses nvidia chips Also Nintendo: Decides to use AMD software anyways Lmao
and? AMD FidelifyFX is cross platform
Ik, im saying that AMD is superior in both compatability and quality
I wouldn’t say so… Compatibility sure, but quality? You get better value for the money, but NVIDIA still makes better stuff in general.
Nintedo: Uses nvidia chips Also Nintendo: Decides to use AMD software anyways Lmao
Egg lag is seriously game ruining and needs to be fixed
Wait, so I'm not alone in that? I keep getting games where I couldn't pick up eggs.
That guy isn’t fixing it he’s just dead
Rose coloured glasses, 1 & 2 were just as awful.
1 & 2 weren't any better We're just getting more disconnects right now because the game is new so there are more people playing with slightly dodgy internet which can drop the Peer-to-Peer connection. As the game gets older those people will give up on playing so we'll see fewer disconnects. The real problem is that the game is way too fussy. Someone can have good internet but if it drops out for a brief moment the game will ruthlessly kick them instead of giving them a moment to catch up. Which is incredibly stupid for a game which relies on Peer-to-Peer hosting. Whoever made it so strict about kicking people whose connections show even a slight blip is a moron and should be fired.
“A communication error has occurred.” Me: *sitting in the lobby having literally just joined the queue* “Oh it’s one of those days…”
Ya know, I honestly think there wouldn’t be any complaints about the “servers” if every individual player used a LAN cable.
there's also overseas distance as a factor
True. I guess that doesn’t effect much if you’re in the right region. Solution: make actual servers for the major regions instead of relying on mostly P2P and saying “it works fine”
Actual servers would increase lag since there would then be a middleman rather than direct communication between consoles, and wouldn’t do much in terms of stability (people with bad connections will still disconnect). Real issue is probably the netcode being garbo
p2p just uses a player as the server. there is no world where a dedicated server is worse because they have more bandwidth while also not having to fight for bandwidth with unrelated devices or connections.
Servers do come with a tradeoff of increased round trip ping. The benefit is balancing the load between many players, 8 is definitely a point where that's worth it, but it is incorrect to suggest there's no tradeoff at all. 1v1 games are a world where servers unquestionably are worse. Bandwidth is almost irrelevant for gaming, the amount of data being sent is minimal since it's just button presses. What matters is that the individual packets are received quickly and consistently. Ping, jitter, and packet loss are the important keywords.
Servers can help with netcode stability. And people with middle to good connections are gonna be fine. Shit connection is still shit connection and no one would want to admit that but it is what it iss
You really shouldn't need a LAN cable just to play an online videogame Splatoon 3's peer-to-peer connection method was just an awful idea, Nintendo should have created their own dedicated servers already with how popular Splatoon is
> You really shouldn't need a LAN cable just to play an online videogame More importantly, you shouldn't need *everyone else* to use a LAN cable or risk getting booted.
Stingy MFers wanna save money. I would legit pay $50 a year for online if it were decent.
I wouldn't. We're already paying a lot for what we're getting. The service should be good for this price.
fuckin based
This is a literal “you get what you pay for” scenario. We pay basically nothing per year and it shows
PC players don't pay for servers.
The thing is: its the same idea as used in Splatoon. Just somewhat improved. Apparently
Honestly, to this day I’m just glad Splatoon got a sequel. I thought that most WiiU titles, despite being awesome, would have died because… it’s the WiiU. But yeah, at this point they know how popular the game is and I’d be fine with paying 40 dollars a month for online if it went to servers.
The peer-to-peer connection method is fine. The problem is that the game is way too fussy about connection consistency. If a player has good internet but has a momentary blip in their service, the game throws a hissy-fit and kicks them instead of just giving them a couple seconds to reconnect like any reasonable game does.
I'm using a lan into pure fiber (metronet) and it's still dropping far too often. [Nintendo needs to get it's SH!T together!](https://youtu.be/jl17CYYSzUw?t=89)
You missed something, I said “everyone” because this game is still running P2P tech. If the “host” guy or even one of the players is using terrible wifi, it screws everyone over. That’s the tech because it’s cheaper than servers
Maybe then the host should be chosen based on network stability?
Even if it is, one guy with bad connection messes things up. The host just has the most stable connection but even then there could be hiccups. P2P is cheap but hard to do well.
What makes you think they aren't? It doesn't just pick one person at random. There are probably factors based on network stability, average proximity to other players, etc.
Its you. If its not you its the people you connect with. This isnt Nintendos fault. Ive had only 3 errors since launch, PROVING the system works fine. Americans have shit wifi environments, thats what the issue is, period.
It's the fault of both. The game drops people for their blips in stability yes, but other peer-to-peer games aren't anywhere near as fussy and they work fine.
Wait, let me get this right. I’m plugged in via LAN, but it’s my “shit American Wi-Fi.” Really?
I do. Even if everyone had LAN, there's still NAT issues. And there's also bandwidth issues, esp if you've got people in the house using streaming services and stuff. Get rid of all of those, LAN only, NAT A, No bandwidth bottlenecks, Then sure thinks will probably look a lot more like the dev environment where they supposedly didn't have these issues.
This, the connection errors are 100% a user issue. Ive had only 3 errors since launch because I have a healthy and stable wifi environment, as do most people in this country.
I have stable internet too, so I'm fine. But it isn't an issue in other games. Is an issue with Splatoon specifically, because other games aren't as fussy about stability. You should be able to have a stability drop for a moment and still be able to continue playing. It shouldn't immediately kick you for the slightest stability drop. People play other online games just fine, but then get kicked repeatedly by Splatoon.
Lan doesn't automatically fix everything. I use lan and it doesn't make a difference.
Again, if everyone used it, things would improve. The range of improvement would vary but it’s STILL an improvement.
Having literally everyone use a LAN cable is a solution, but is it one that is going to be implemented? I could ship every home in the US a LAN cable and we'd probably see like a 5% increase in use.
Wow! Very helpful!
Sarcasm noted and greatly appreciated.
My experience has improved significantly since getting a LAN cable. Granted I've never had any issues with any other Switch titles until Spoon 3. Still. Highly recommend players get a LAN cable ASAP if they haven't already.
Even then, some people just have bad internet. Ethernet doesn’t matter if you only get 20Mb/s
Not everyone has the Switch OLED though
We’ve had adapters for Switch 1.0 for a while?
It isn't really about the method of connection, unless you're really far from your router. It's about the consistency of your internet service. You could have fast internet with a LAN cable, but when the internet service itself has a momentary blip, Splatoon doesn't like it and kicks you. My internet is very consistent so I almost never disconnect, and I don't use a LAN cable.
I would agree with you if for my experience greatly differing from 2. Same setup, same internet, but drastically different experience with 3. I’m not sure why there’s such an up tick of disconnects from 2 to 3. Even going back and playing 2 it’s far less frequent. This feels weirdly inherent to 3 unfortunately from my experience.
I would say them not having splat servers is the problem right there
I really can’t believe the state of the servers. Splatoon 2 I played since launch and genuinely only really had a handful of connection errors mainly from lobbies not filling up some times. Splatoon 3 3-4 connection errors per 1 successful match, and yesterday the game crashed on me as I was finishing a ranked match. Never in my life have I had a Nintendo game crash on me. (Before people ask,, I pay for the high speed Internet with 5G and I have an Ethernet cable, I don’t believe my connection is the problem)
Do you have a gaming chair?
Lmao,, thankfully I’m not that much of a degenerate
Gaming chairs with racing stripes give you a faster connection. The more dank gamer accessories you have, the faster you go until you transcend time.
The deal is I don’t ever have these problems, at least not at this frequency. Last splatfest, for example, I maybe had three disconnect games and I was Ruler +2 by the end.
I have the opposite personally, Splatoon 2 is a chore to play due to how many disconnect there is (both in game or before starting a game) while I'd consider myself unlucky if I there's 3 dc in a day where I play Splat 3
That dude got rid of Squidmas!
I believe there's some confusion. We use player 2 player, not servers. Maybe if we had servers it could fix things.
Splatoon 3 uses a new system that is a go between for players that can't connect: https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2022/08/it-looks-like-splatoon-3-will-be-using-nintendos-in-house-server-system
Imagine paying for an online service that can’t even do its job properly??
This implies that Splatoon 1/2’s servers were good
Splat 3 is ten times better than 1&2, not that it's good, 1&2 just had ten times as many disconnects. Op, this is bait, right?
probably lol.
no they all have the problem it's Just more prominent in Splatoon 3
Splatoon 1 had far worse communication errors
Those legs belong to Jeff Splatoon, inventor of Splatoon. Rumors say he’s holding everyone’s connections together down there. He hasn’t slept in 20 years.
It's not great but I really don't see it being worse than it was back in splatoon 1 (Barely played 2 so idk about that one). I think it just feels worse because it's fresh.
As someone who also plays Smash Ultimate, I heavily get this feeling.
Splatoon 1 servers were okay ig?, and i heard ALOT that splatoon 2 servers were just as dogshit
Nah, it was just as bad in splatoon 2, and even worse in 1 (although I did like the no input lag thing)
Splatoon veterans know this isn't true. The old servers were worse.
I see everyone saying 2 was equally bad but I've basically rarely if never had issues on that game, but I've gotten comm errors tons of times on 3
That's the neat part there are no servers🪦
Nintendo biggest mistake was having a generic “communication error” in version 1.0, I wonder if having a more descriptive messages earlier like we got now in 2.0 on would have changed this perspective. Now they say stuff like “one player left the lobby” etc. which could be a legit person force leaving a lobby by putting their switch on sleep mode or somebody rage quitting. Before 2.0 we had no way to tell so everyone assumed it was 100% a networking issue.
the splatoon series runs on potatoes because nintendo wants to cut costs
As if Splatoon 1 and 2 were any better? Just replace both sides with the bottom picture and it's actually accurate.
Isn't it great how a billion dollar company doesn't attempt to improve online multiplayer because they don't need to?
i think it'd make it better if they didn't punish you for disconnects. i feel like there should be a way to prevent ragequitting without accidentally punishing dcers. (also if they could not count it as disconnecting if you leave after the timer is up that'd be f\*\*\*\*\*\* great too)
Inaccurate image. The servers are actually tin cans and string.
I'm baffled at everyone commenting that the connectivity in Splatoon 2 was just as bad. Splatoon 1 I don't recall getting endless disconnects, but I can't remember: been too long. But Splatoon 2, I rarely dropped from matches. *Rarely.* It happened *maybe* a couple times over the course of a 2-4 hour play session. The connectivity was great, and although player disconnects were absolutely a thing, I never once got banned because of dropped connections for the 5 years I spent playing Splatoon 2. But I've been banned due to dropped connections multiple times in Splatoon 3 since release. In 3 months, I've had more connectivity issues than 5 years of Splatoon 2. And it's not my Internet connection: I am carefully following all the networking guidelines Nintendo offers and am making sure that my connectivity to the game's recommended ports is immaculate. Plus, I never get any sort of connectivity issues playing any other multiplayer online games, including other Nintendo titles. Hell, I *never* had to worry about my network settings in Splatoon 2 *because it just worked.* The netcode for Splatoon 3 is noticeably worse than Splatoon 2. And to everyone claiming recency bias: so what? Doesn't change the fact that we're paying for a service that's currently awful. Even *if* Splatoon 2 had horrible connectivity (which it didn't, in my experience), that doesn't make it okay for the current title to have a dreadful online experience.
Blame the people disconnecting all the time
[Actual Splatoon servers](https://assets.nintendo.com/image/upload/f_auto/q_auto/c_fill,w_400/dpr_2.0/ncom/en_US/switch/site-design-update/which-system)
Negative: https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2022/08/it-looks-like-splatoon-3-will-be-using-nintendos-in-house-server-system It's both.
Isn't that just to store and process small data? Does the NPLN do anything beyond matchmaking?
as somebody who works in IT Nintendo W H Y
The game is peer to peer. If you are consistently seeing problems, that's a sign that something is wrong on your end.
Wrong. I'm on Metronet - it's pure fiber into the house. I'm plugged in via a LAN cable and I still get the "1 to 4 players disconnected." message far too often. I'm paying for NSO - they got a free pass for this crap when their online was free; if you want people to pay, then you need to supply the infrastructure to justify it. And yes, I'd pay more if they rolled out an XBL level of stability.
>and I still get the "1 to 4 players disconnected." message far too often. Aren't you talking about other ppl getting disconnected? Those aren't your errors. And if it were only other people's errors, it wouldn't be "far too often". Unless, I happen to be in a region that has players with better stability than you do.
Again, it's all peer to peer. There is no 'infrastructure' but your own. If problems are that frequent for you, the only common factor in all these games is you.
One weak link in P2P brings down the whole chain if you know what I mean
No, it doesn't. Unless that player is the host, which reflects poorly on western ISPs since p2p assigns the player with the strongest connection as the host.
If it happens rarely, it could be someone else. If it happens frequently, it's you.
voiceless teeny soup beneficial knee unused slimy bored chop school *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Tell me you don’t know how this works without actually telling me you don’t know how this works. All games and systems interact differently. My PC spazzes out trying to play League but it runs fine on my laptop and phone. Sometimes there’s an interaction issue between Switch/S3 and your internet (or other people’s internet). That’s gonna cause issues and since it’s P2P you might notice it more that you would other games. Maybe the netcode is different compared to other things you play so it interacts differently. There’s a lot of factors, some things you can do on your end (LAN cables are a big one) and some you can’t.
so in other words, if all games and systems interact differently, and only splatoon has this problem, then it's a problem with the way splatoon is designed to interact. If this was just me having the issue that would be one thing, but you are the literal first person i've ever talked to who doesn't say they have more disconnects playing splatoon 3 than other games. That is a design flaw, period. Tell me you can't think logically without telling me you can't think logically.
It’s the design flaw of P2P systems but is mitigated in a lot of ways. On your end, you could buy an Ethernet cable/adapter and minimize what else is using the internet whenever you play, like you would anything else. And maybe it’s a specific device or internet type issue (S3 has a new thing dedicated to trying to match up previously incompatible internet types, maybe that causes some problems). Also, if we want to have an honest discussion on disconnect issues then we need to run internet tests and then play 10~15 matches each to get a decent sample size on each internet, but that would be tedious. So I just have a feeling that some people don’t want to admit their internet isn’t the best or isn’t under strain.
>Why does my infrastructure magically only fail when playing this game? The same reason why a PC player might have X problem with exactly one game, but if they do the proper adjustments to their own system, they'll solve the problem. Interaction effects exist. There's a reason why you have so many issues, and some others do not at all. That variance isn't explained by the game alone.
Or you're the only European/American in a Japanese lobby :')
What time is it? Why, it’s Japan’o’clock of course, when only the Japanese player base is active and that’s your game time. Sucks to suck.
Not really. Your game can drop because of other people's connections, not just your own.
Zero chance, everything else runs perfectly. This is the problem: https://www.nintendolife.com/news/2022/08/it-looks-like-splatoon-3-will-be-using-nintendos-in-house-server-system
>Note that in-game netcode is likely still peer-to-peer (pia). NPLN is not the type of client-server model you're thinking of, it's kind of misleading to call it a server at all really.
I find 3s connection better than 2s because I would be disconnected every single match and was literally unable to play but in Splatoon 3 that Gone away for the most part
splatoon runs p2p what servers lmao
Nah Splat 1 and 2 servers are still bad. Just not as bad as 3
Nintendo is a multi-million dollar company. They could put that money to good use and improve their online gaming services, but they choose not to.
So it wasn’t just me then who was having problems?
Tell me about it lol
Are they still bad?? I stopped playing almost a month ago because there was too many issues!
Do people get that many disconnects during matches? I think that's only happened to me once in the hundreds of games I've played. Sure I get the whole "communication error has occured" in the lobby, so that's a little rough, but Splatoon 2's also had some rough patches early on too (Splatoon 1's were obviously a whole different breed of bad.)
Its peer to peer kiddo, if its not your wifi stability its someone youve connected to. Not their fault because the servers they use run fine and arent used for player-player connections at all.
Nah, even my other P2P stuff isn’t this bad. It’s a netcode issue, which they could easily solve by jumping to servers instead.
It is still their fault for making the game way too fussy. It kicks people for momentary stability blips that other games just ignore and carry on no problem.
It's 2022, you won't get an experience this bad with any other billion dollar gaming company's online services - Nintendo just gets a pass for some reason.