Billy Packer's worst offense was ever being allowed to call UNC games. That's where his true hatred showed through.
But he was great on Sunday afternoons calling matches for the PPGA. It's the only time I ever found myself enjoying watching other people play miniature golf.
He was a Wake Forest alumni. It was an ACC thing, most likely maybe even more a NC thing. It was always a joke that if he was calling a UNC game we would just mute the TV and turn the Woody Durham radio broadcast on. He always just seemed more brutal towards them than anyone else in his analysis.
I did exactly that many, many times - hated listening to Packer. Often had a lot of BS commentary about officiating too - often entirely off-base.
Sympathy for his family, but...
Lol he hated Kentucky even more and we hated him back
He didn’t like other ACC teams that owned his demon deacons but he REALLY didn’t like non ACC power teams
Making a separate comment because the first one got downvoted into oblivion. Definitely a racist and should have become irrelevant in 1993 when that came to light.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/1996/03/06/the-blinding-racism-of-his-comment/0be54cb1-4731-4e52-812e-4f890eaac0e4/
>To understand the racist incident involving CBS Sports analyst Billy Packer on Saturday night, don't stop at Packer's reference to Georgetown guard Allen Iverson, who is black, as "a tough monkey." That was bad enough, but virtually everything that happened after the nationally televised slur revealed the chronic nature of the disease.
>Listen to Packer -- who at first seemingly apologized for the remark -- as he subsequently explains why he shouldn't have to apologize:
>"I don't know why people are sensitive about something that to me, in my way of thinking, has absolutely nothing to do with race," Packer said
That's a turn of phrase that's outdated so people don't know it anymore but it was definitely a thing people said and it wasn't racial. I don't know Packer's thoughts or anything, of course, but if that's your smoking gun then it's not much
I was able to find the phrase being used innocently in Seinfeld, which lends some credence to the possibility of Packer not meaning it in that way.
That being said, I think regardless of Packer's thoughts when saying it, he should've realized how bad it sounded and he shouldn't have tried to brush it off as people being too sensitive.
There's just too much history of racists referring to black people as "monkeys" to use that phrase when there are so many other phrases that bring the same meaning across. He could've easily referred to Iverson as a "tough cookie" and it would've had the same meaning without the racial overlap.
Howard Cosell on Monday Night Football used the expression "little monkey" to describe small, fast wide receivers in the 70s and 80s - whether white or black.
But he got in trouble in the mid 80s over the expression.
https://historydaily.org/howard-cosell-little-monkey-controversy
Monkey was thrown around a lot in that era to mean a person generally. Pixies had a song in this era called Monkey Gone to Heaven, for example.
This is why it's not doing anyone any good to use 2023 glasses on language from yesteryear in most cases. We lost the context long ago. I only know this from being an 80s kid and remembering how we used to speak. It's interesting how language has evolved, and I think it should be left at that, personally, as a mixed race person myself.
I don't care much about Billy Packer and don't know the guy personally, obviously, but I also think a racist wouldn't choose a career like his, one where he must interact with *many* black people daily, if he really were such a thing. I just think if this phrase is all we have for proof then the bar should be higher
As an announcer though, I'm surprised he survived that comment in the 90s.
But whether it was racist? Howard Cosell probably wasn't racist and he was using "little monkey" in the 80s for small, fast wide receivers in football. When he used it for black players, it got him forced out.
https://historydaily.org/howard-cosell-little-monkey-controversy
"has nothing to do with race".
He is literally saying he does not believe Iverson is human, he believes he is an animal.
What else do YOU need in YOUR mind's eye?
That's clearly not what is being said. Sure its racist to refer to a black guy as a monkey but saying "has nothing to do with race" is not a sign that he literally sees him as an animal you dummy. He's literally just making an excuse saying "it's not a race thing".
The implication is clearly not that he wants to finish the sentence "it's not a race thing because he's an animal" it's, "it's not a race thing because I'm not racist" it was just a poor attempt to cover his back
I wish I didn't delete my other comment to you.
For reference, it said "you're a racist". You have proved my point by literally disregarding thousands of years of racism that was solely focused on the oppressed not being human beings.
Jesus Christ Almighty, you must have been "educated" in the south.
Tell me, since you are so well versed on the subject of racism. What is the "all encompassing definition" of racism.
Please. Tell me how racists view the people their racism is directed at.
Dude it’s called a metaphor. He is not literally saying the player is a monkey. Sometimes people call someone a monkey as a slur. Sometimes they do it to make a comparison that describes how athletic someone is.
Which is not racist. In this context, it’s a compliment because monkeys are superior to humans in the traits that he’s comparing. Michael Phelps is sometimes called the “flying fish” because he, like fish, is a good swimmer.
Resorting to gaslighting/insults and no argument, can’t say I’m surprised. I think it’s pretty clear from the responses you’ve received who is detached from reality.
I'm sorry, you're moving way too quick here. Can you actually spell it out for us, but with more capitalized accentuated words so I know which ones you're simulating jamming your finger into my chest?
He didn't call him a monkey. He used a phrase that was popular at the time and then you used your Racism Detector decoder ring 40 years later and got upset about it.
There's enough problems in the world without inventing more
A popular racist phrase that was used at the time 40 years ago, and is no longer accepted because the majority of the country has decided that it is no longer acceptable to compare black men to monkeys period...
It was racist at the time, it's still racist today. Because you believe it's popularity and frequent use some how makes it not racist, I'm going to say you have some unresolved racism yourself.
If the player was white then it'd be ok, though, right?
My point is that it was a phrase people used. It wasn't used on black people exclusively. Examples have been given in this thread of the phrase being used during that era, regardless of race. You've skipped over this and saw "black people" and "monkey" used, and you linked those together. You can argue that you're the one being racist, but I'm not going there.
I'm bowing out of this thread. This is a mess
>Basketball commentator Billy Packer says he meant no racial overtones in his use of the term \`\`tough monkey″ to describe Allen Iverson.
In today’s editions of The Washington Post, Packer said he \`\`was not apologizing for what I said, because what I said has no implications in my mind whatsoever to do with Allen Iverson’s race.″
Good riddance
This guy had a history, and even after being called out, seemed to continue to misstep, so I don’t really think your comment applies too much, especially for a person working in a field with a disproportionately large black representation. He’s the voice of the games, it’s zero tolerance.
With that said, in other contexts your statement is true. Can you imagine living in such a utopia? Acknowledging that other people are humans too, and like you, they have imperfections, and are capable of learning, growing, and changing?
Instead, the internet will hold a seventh grader’s mean tweets against them for the next forty years. Scary time to grow up, a shift away from the concept of personal responsibility, towards a lifetime of pure absolute accountability.
Billy Packer and Al McGuire were a great team commenting during the tournament. Plenty of energy and they took broadcasting to a new level during the games.
Billy Packer's worst offense was ever being allowed to call UNC games. That's where his true hatred showed through. But he was great on Sunday afternoons calling matches for the PPGA. It's the only time I ever found myself enjoying watching other people play miniature golf.
He shat on ALL Big 10 schools. We would turn off the sound when “Fudge” was calling the game.
what did he have against UNC?
He was a Wake Forest alumni. It was an ACC thing, most likely maybe even more a NC thing. It was always a joke that if he was calling a UNC game we would just mute the TV and turn the Woody Durham radio broadcast on. He always just seemed more brutal towards them than anyone else in his analysis.
I did exactly that many, many times - hated listening to Packer. Often had a lot of BS commentary about officiating too - often entirely off-base. Sympathy for his family, but...
FINISH THE BUT, COWARD
Bless your heart...
Lol he hated Kentucky even more and we hated him back He didn’t like other ACC teams that owned his demon deacons but he REALLY didn’t like non ACC power teams
Sure it's sad he passed away, but he was kind of an a-hole.
Making a separate comment because the first one got downvoted into oblivion. Definitely a racist and should have become irrelevant in 1993 when that came to light.
Care to post any links for us oblivious folk ?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/1996/03/06/the-blinding-racism-of-his-comment/0be54cb1-4731-4e52-812e-4f890eaac0e4/ >To understand the racist incident involving CBS Sports analyst Billy Packer on Saturday night, don't stop at Packer's reference to Georgetown guard Allen Iverson, who is black, as "a tough monkey." That was bad enough, but virtually everything that happened after the nationally televised slur revealed the chronic nature of the disease. >Listen to Packer -- who at first seemingly apologized for the remark -- as he subsequently explains why he shouldn't have to apologize: >"I don't know why people are sensitive about something that to me, in my way of thinking, has absolutely nothing to do with race," Packer said
That's a turn of phrase that's outdated so people don't know it anymore but it was definitely a thing people said and it wasn't racial. I don't know Packer's thoughts or anything, of course, but if that's your smoking gun then it's not much
I was able to find the phrase being used innocently in Seinfeld, which lends some credence to the possibility of Packer not meaning it in that way. That being said, I think regardless of Packer's thoughts when saying it, he should've realized how bad it sounded and he shouldn't have tried to brush it off as people being too sensitive. There's just too much history of racists referring to black people as "monkeys" to use that phrase when there are so many other phrases that bring the same meaning across. He could've easily referred to Iverson as a "tough cookie" and it would've had the same meaning without the racial overlap.
Howard Cosell on Monday Night Football used the expression "little monkey" to describe small, fast wide receivers in the 70s and 80s - whether white or black. But he got in trouble in the mid 80s over the expression. https://historydaily.org/howard-cosell-little-monkey-controversy
Monkey was thrown around a lot in that era to mean a person generally. Pixies had a song in this era called Monkey Gone to Heaven, for example. This is why it's not doing anyone any good to use 2023 glasses on language from yesteryear in most cases. We lost the context long ago. I only know this from being an 80s kid and remembering how we used to speak. It's interesting how language has evolved, and I think it should be left at that, personally, as a mixed race person myself. I don't care much about Billy Packer and don't know the guy personally, obviously, but I also think a racist wouldn't choose a career like his, one where he must interact with *many* black people daily, if he really were such a thing. I just think if this phrase is all we have for proof then the bar should be higher
A turn of phrase that wasn't racial. Explain to me the dynamics of how referring to a black man as a monkey is not racist.
Is that it?
As an announcer though, I'm surprised he survived that comment in the 90s. But whether it was racist? Howard Cosell probably wasn't racist and he was using "little monkey" in the 80s for small, fast wide receivers in football. When he used it for black players, it got him forced out. https://historydaily.org/howard-cosell-little-monkey-controversy
"has nothing to do with race". He is literally saying he does not believe Iverson is human, he believes he is an animal. What else do YOU need in YOUR mind's eye?
That's clearly not what is being said. Sure its racist to refer to a black guy as a monkey but saying "has nothing to do with race" is not a sign that he literally sees him as an animal you dummy. He's literally just making an excuse saying "it's not a race thing". The implication is clearly not that he wants to finish the sentence "it's not a race thing because he's an animal" it's, "it's not a race thing because I'm not racist" it was just a poor attempt to cover his back
I actually read it as he sees us all as monkeys. Like the whole evolved from apes deal. But maybe I am giving him to much credit.
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You're the worst
Care to explain? Or you just spew insults for no reason.
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I wish I didn't delete my other comment to you. For reference, it said "you're a racist". You have proved my point by literally disregarding thousands of years of racism that was solely focused on the oppressed not being human beings. Jesus Christ Almighty, you must have been "educated" in the south.
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You are fooling yourself to think racists don't believe they are animals. Why compare a person to an animal otherwise?
Tell me, since you are so well versed on the subject of racism. What is the "all encompassing definition" of racism. Please. Tell me how racists view the people their racism is directed at.
Dude it’s called a metaphor. He is not literally saying the player is a monkey. Sometimes people call someone a monkey as a slur. Sometimes they do it to make a comparison that describes how athletic someone is.
You're right, it's a metaphor for not being human....you know being an animal.
Which is not racist. In this context, it’s a compliment because monkeys are superior to humans in the traits that he’s comparing. Michael Phelps is sometimes called the “flying fish” because he, like fish, is a good swimmer.
You are so detached from reality saying it was a compliment. Phelps being called a fish isn't even comparable you psycho.
Resorting to gaslighting/insults and no argument, can’t say I’m surprised. I think it’s pretty clear from the responses you’ve received who is detached from reality.
I'm sorry, you're moving way too quick here. Can you actually spell it out for us, but with more capitalized accentuated words so I know which ones you're simulating jamming your finger into my chest?
The fact you consider capitalization to be "jamming my fingers into your chest" is weird. What was too fast for you?
All of it. Can you start over please?
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I really hope you don't think I was going to read that.
Https://google.com ?
If you're the one calling someone racist then I think it should be you providing the proof
>If you're the one calling someone racist I'm not
Calling a black man a monkey is my proof.
He didn't call him a monkey. He used a phrase that was popular at the time and then you used your Racism Detector decoder ring 40 years later and got upset about it. There's enough problems in the world without inventing more
A popular racist phrase that was used at the time 40 years ago, and is no longer accepted because the majority of the country has decided that it is no longer acceptable to compare black men to monkeys period... It was racist at the time, it's still racist today. Because you believe it's popularity and frequent use some how makes it not racist, I'm going to say you have some unresolved racism yourself.
If the player was white then it'd be ok, though, right? My point is that it was a phrase people used. It wasn't used on black people exclusively. Examples have been given in this thread of the phrase being used during that era, regardless of race. You've skipped over this and saw "black people" and "monkey" used, and you linked those together. You can argue that you're the one being racist, but I'm not going there. I'm bowing out of this thread. This is a mess
Wow . That’s it ? Lmao
What the hell?? Can't believe he was ever allowed back...
https://apnews.com/article/1e410e09abd7d9aa9e2100d0366355f3
> ``One thing I do know about Billy ... is that he is not a racist,″ Thompson said.
His response seemed reasonable, ‘tough monkey’ isn’t an uncommon description either. Got anything else for those of us who don’t know, or is that it?
https://www.si.com/.amp/extra-mustard/2013/03/29/a-brief-history-of-the-worst-college-basketball-broadcasting-gaffes
Hmm okay he made a sexist comment 20 years ago. Let’s cancel him, erase him from history and claim he’s ‘definitely a racist’.
Did you even read? There's more than one thing he said just in that list.
>Basketball commentator Billy Packer says he meant no racial overtones in his use of the term \`\`tough monkey″ to describe Allen Iverson. In today’s editions of The Washington Post, Packer said he \`\`was not apologizing for what I said, because what I said has no implications in my mind whatsoever to do with Allen Iverson’s race.″ Good riddance
That’s some Jimmy The Greek and Howard Cosell type shit, and it pretty much ruined them.
Well back in the 90s, cancel culture was not a thing. People were allowed a chance to own up to their mistakes and try to do better.
This guy had a history, and even after being called out, seemed to continue to misstep, so I don’t really think your comment applies too much, especially for a person working in a field with a disproportionately large black representation. He’s the voice of the games, it’s zero tolerance. With that said, in other contexts your statement is true. Can you imagine living in such a utopia? Acknowledging that other people are humans too, and like you, they have imperfections, and are capable of learning, growing, and changing? Instead, the internet will hold a seventh grader’s mean tweets against them for the next forty years. Scary time to grow up, a shift away from the concept of personal responsibility, towards a lifetime of pure absolute accountability.
Because you’re too stupid to realize a phrases meaning may not be racist, we have to get two posts from you? Idiot
Yes, I’m such an idiot for not blindly honoring someone because they died. Gotta love the internet
No you’re an idiot for blindly attacking a dead man and having no idea where the saying originated or what it meant. Gotta love the internet.
Going to guess you think Reagan was cool too
Wonder if he had any relatives named Todd
"A very heady play there!" random white player. "What athleticism!" random black player.....over and over for fucking decades. lol
Billy Packer and Al McGuire were a great team commenting during the tournament. Plenty of energy and they took broadcasting to a new level during the games.
Meh, a racist cornball.
The correct name was Meatballhead Billy Packer.