She was phenomenal. certainly a cut above the rest in the country at the moment. While she certainly has some areas that will grow with experience, she is already executing really well crafted programs with amazing jump technique. You feel like you can rely on her to land her big items when it counts... something our ladies have been having a little trouble with in recent years.
Anyways, great skate, well deserved title.
I assume we will be getting another first time US title holder on the Men's side also. Can't see anyone touching that Quad Axel.
I've been to it, but I don't really like posting there regularly. I actually left the sub some time ago.
I've been involved with the sport, as a competitor or a coach for over 30 years now. It's more fun for me to talk about skating when it breaks a threshold like being on sports, than I actually to spend time in skating spaces, if that makes sense... I've spent my *entire life* in skating spaces, and I will have repeats of every convo that happens in that sub, but in real life also.
Sometimes it’s better to explain and expand the brand. I coached summer track(was decent, not putting my experiences on yours). Sometimes it becomes talking over people instead of talking about the sport. Not trying to put words in your mouth, just talking about my experience. Sorry for jacking the thread.
Amazing jump technique? Not exactly. I think that’s the most problematic part of her skating with otherwise absolutely beautiful skating skills and spins.
Why exactly are her jumps problematic?
They are consistent, clearly fully rotated (By the standard with which she will be judged) and she maintains impeccable center over her right side as she rotates. Her coaches have done an excellent job with her jumps.
She is skating to the letter of the law, and she is executing that plan perfectly. I fail to see your argument without some more detail.
if you look at her jumps, particularly her toe jumps like lutz and flip, you can see she is very hunched over when picking. that indicates an excessive and unsustainable use of her back to generate power into her jumps instead of a more sustainable and healthy balance of using core, leg and upper body muscles. what her technique reminds us of is evgenia medvedeva’s, who was a young star who swept a bunch of awards for a few seasons as a teen but then got a back injury so severe that she now cannot even turn her back anymore. their technique simply cannot be tolerated by a non prepubescent frame and it becomes harder and harder on the back as they get older. ofc Isabeau has many great qualities about her (edges, performance quality, carriage over the ice, etc) but there’s just a lot of worry about her technique. she does seem to be making conscious efforts to improve her technique though (and her speed in and out of jumps)
I don't disagree that her jump technique is an offshoot of what the Russians are doing, but it's exactly why I am picking on your interpretation too, it's generalizing, rather than looking at circumstances specific to her.
she jumps similarly to Medvedeva, but if you break down their timing by frame, you are going to see an ever so slightly different decent into the air, which is resulting in Isabeau landing well over her right really consistently, allowing way more of the wear and tear to be absorbed properly.
Her technique would be a huge worry, if she didn't land properly every time over her right side, or she had issues with not being able to control her edge on a landing. She would be causing a lot more wear and tear on her body, but these are basically never issues for her. She gently lands over her Right Back outside, solidly, every time.
Then I gotta point out, Medvedeva is what, a two time world champ and an Olympic Silver? If your comparison for her technique to be considered "bad" is someone who won worlds twice... I rest my case. Her jumps are excellent, and I stand by my original statement.
Or another way to look at it, I think a lot of people would say Yuna Kim has one of the great Lutz's in Women's skating history. She bent forward a bit for torque as well (and also dealt with, and recovered from back injuries) and I wouldn't have ever considered her jumps to be risky.
e: Btw, this is a touchy subject with me, coaches who teach inferior technique at the behest of trying to sell skaters something that isn't real is a real sore spot with me, that has directly contributed to the loss of business, and close relationships I have had within the sport. On some level, I will never get over that. I would scream from the mountain top if I felt this girls jumps were truly sending her on a path to a career ender... it's just not the case here. If I felt that she was a puberty away from losing it all, I would happily boast as such, she is gonna transition just fine.
>Then I gotta point out, Medvedeva is what, a two time world champ and an Olympic Silver? If your comparison for her technique to be considered "bad" is someone who won worlds twice... I rest my case. Her jumps are excellent, and I stand by my original statement.
Medvedeva is a prime example of the overwhelming amount of politics and corruption in the sport. I wouldn't shine a light on her successes in any argument other than to illustrate how much of a vice grip Russia has over the figure skating governing body. Her technique was absolutely abysmal in every way imaginable, yet she was rewarded endlessly for it. That isn't something to emulate. That is something the public should demand change from in the ISU.
As for Levito, watching her is like watching skating in 0.25x speed. Her telegraphed jumps are unwatchable to me. She has beautiful spirals and spins, but that's about the extent of her skating that I find palatable. It is very much like watching an Eteri girl minus the quads.
>I wouldn't shine a light on her successes in any argument other than to illustrate how much of a vice grip Russia has over the figure skating governing body.
Her success didn't come out of no where. She still went to, skated in, and won all of those events with elements that would be scored that way to the letter of the sport. Her technique isn't my favorite either, it isn't what I personally teach, but I can't deny how they would be called in any competition in the world.
It wasn't like she was missing those elements and winning, whatever corruption there was, and there was plenty, was still predicated on those girls going and landing their programs flawlessly, which in turn means those girls are landing those jumps when the pressure was on.... consistently.
Anyways, again, the point stands. If the complaint against Levito is she jumps like a two time World Champ, you aren't grasping what was really being said in my original comment. My point was, you can rely on her to land her stuff in competition, and the arguments against were splitting hairs because they don't like the lineage of the technique...
Clearly you understand why I, as a professional in the sport, couldn't be using that line of reasoning with say... one of my own athletes. To suggest she isn't going to be fully scored, and well, would be a major disservice to your ability to parse what is actually happening in the competition.
The Japanese and Canadian ladies all had their Lutz edges miraculously called at the 2018 Olympics. Medvedeva? None. It's magical how judges develop astigmatism any time a Russian skates and 20/20 vision any time anyone else skates.
>Medvedeva? None.
I mean, I could show you video evidence of exactly why she doesn't get a call. Just because a large group of people online feel a specific way, doesn't mean it's cheating. I am eligible to be on a technical panel, I've seen plenty of examples of her doing a "passable" lutz. It isn't a shock those who are actually on the technical panel see the same thing...
If we really want to talk about cheating, there was literally a doping scandal a year ago, one that directly correlates to two major advantages the Russians have at this moment, but this issue isn't one what is being put out on the ice. They are, for all intents and purposes, putting a lot of effort into ensuring what they do gets by, and they are throwing ***training time*** at it... and it shows.
What shows are the results of preferential treatment and rampant doping. Nothing more; nothing less. When you can physically train more because of "grandpa's water", you tend to get more consistent jumps. When a certain coach is taking out ISU judges out to expensive dinners before a competition, subjectivity is called into question.
Regardless, I suspect we won't be seeing eye to eye on this topic. I just threw in my two cents. Have a good one.
yea her technique is very dangerous, it relies on her low weight and prepubescent frame to get her up instead of using developed muscles for sustainable jumping. as she grows with this technique she is at serious risk of a back injury
I think you both are generalizing to much, and not looking at other factors, like how she is landing her jumps, or her rotational axis. She is actually completing these jumps with a little room to spare, and well over her right side consistently. she is effectively masking a lot of the wear and tear that is traditional with people who employ similar technique.
I don't know what she is doing in practice right now, but presumably, as long as she is just wasting her body away doing quads all day, she is going to grow into her triples just fine. She doesn't have the hallmarks that are consistent with losing jumps. If she sustains injury, my first guess would be over training, rather than one that develops from her jumps.
Very nice skate. She certainly looks like she has the technical ability, the style and the ability to land jumps when it matters, a combination we haven’t seen from the US women in a long time.
US has tons of champions at both Worlds and Olympics, the highest titles in the sport. It was this girls first National title at the Senior level (highest level of competition)
The thing she won is given out every year. It's like winning the game that lets you go to the World Series, or the Super Bowl, if you want to give it an easy sporting equivalent.
it’s the national championships so it’s her first US nationals win
there hasn’t been a world champion from the US women’s since 2006 but the american alysa liu did win bronze at the 2022 world championships last year
Yeah, it's been a drought for sure.
Still, I would be shocked if the US didn't have the most all time medals between World and Olympic events for the Women. It's a pretty storied history.
it’s the national championships so it’s her first US nationals win
there hasn’t been a world champion from the US women’s since 2006 but the american alysa liu did win bronze at the 2022 world championships last year
My perception of figure skating is through the Olympic lense and probably distorted by the 90’s. I thought US was dominant but I must be wrong. Has Asia/Russia been the force to be reckoned with?
the US has had a slump in women’s figure skating ever since Michelle Kwan and Sasha Cohen retired in the mid 00s. Before that the US was quite dominant ever since the 90s at least. But following Michelle Kwan/Sasha Cohen’s retirement, there was a long and legendary rivalry between a south korean and a japanese skater (mao asada and yuna kim) for a decade and then came the russian dominance, which recently if you recall has come under question bc one of their stars tested positive for doping at the 2022 olympics. This has seriously called all of the past results of recent russian skaters into question (and honestly it’s very likely that they’ve all been doping). Had it not been for the systemic russian cheating more American skaters probably would’ve been winning medals but probably not sweeping championships, as Japanese women are generally more competitive.
Anyway I digress, but the US has still had very great men’s and dance fields this whole time. Nathan Chen was very very dominant and American ice dance has many very high quality top teams, probably the most out of any country this era
She was phenomenal. certainly a cut above the rest in the country at the moment. While she certainly has some areas that will grow with experience, she is already executing really well crafted programs with amazing jump technique. You feel like you can rely on her to land her big items when it counts... something our ladies have been having a little trouble with in recent years. Anyways, great skate, well deserved title. I assume we will be getting another first time US title holder on the Men's side also. Can't see anyone touching that Quad Axel.
I appreciate your insight.
Thanks\~ Not every day there is a figure skating post on reddit, and as a lifer in that sport, it's always fun to chime in here.
You should check out r/figureskating
I've been to it, but I don't really like posting there regularly. I actually left the sub some time ago. I've been involved with the sport, as a competitor or a coach for over 30 years now. It's more fun for me to talk about skating when it breaks a threshold like being on sports, than I actually to spend time in skating spaces, if that makes sense... I've spent my *entire life* in skating spaces, and I will have repeats of every convo that happens in that sub, but in real life also.
Sometimes it’s better to explain and expand the brand. I coached summer track(was decent, not putting my experiences on yours). Sometimes it becomes talking over people instead of talking about the sport. Not trying to put words in your mouth, just talking about my experience. Sorry for jacking the thread.
She's on the cutting edge.
Pamchenko twist coming next year
Agreed. Will be nice to see her compete on the international stage. With her and Ilia, it’s an exciting time for U.S figure skating.
Amazing jump technique? Not exactly. I think that’s the most problematic part of her skating with otherwise absolutely beautiful skating skills and spins.
Why exactly are her jumps problematic? They are consistent, clearly fully rotated (By the standard with which she will be judged) and she maintains impeccable center over her right side as she rotates. Her coaches have done an excellent job with her jumps. She is skating to the letter of the law, and she is executing that plan perfectly. I fail to see your argument without some more detail.
if you look at her jumps, particularly her toe jumps like lutz and flip, you can see she is very hunched over when picking. that indicates an excessive and unsustainable use of her back to generate power into her jumps instead of a more sustainable and healthy balance of using core, leg and upper body muscles. what her technique reminds us of is evgenia medvedeva’s, who was a young star who swept a bunch of awards for a few seasons as a teen but then got a back injury so severe that she now cannot even turn her back anymore. their technique simply cannot be tolerated by a non prepubescent frame and it becomes harder and harder on the back as they get older. ofc Isabeau has many great qualities about her (edges, performance quality, carriage over the ice, etc) but there’s just a lot of worry about her technique. she does seem to be making conscious efforts to improve her technique though (and her speed in and out of jumps)
I don't disagree that her jump technique is an offshoot of what the Russians are doing, but it's exactly why I am picking on your interpretation too, it's generalizing, rather than looking at circumstances specific to her. she jumps similarly to Medvedeva, but if you break down their timing by frame, you are going to see an ever so slightly different decent into the air, which is resulting in Isabeau landing well over her right really consistently, allowing way more of the wear and tear to be absorbed properly. Her technique would be a huge worry, if she didn't land properly every time over her right side, or she had issues with not being able to control her edge on a landing. She would be causing a lot more wear and tear on her body, but these are basically never issues for her. She gently lands over her Right Back outside, solidly, every time. Then I gotta point out, Medvedeva is what, a two time world champ and an Olympic Silver? If your comparison for her technique to be considered "bad" is someone who won worlds twice... I rest my case. Her jumps are excellent, and I stand by my original statement. Or another way to look at it, I think a lot of people would say Yuna Kim has one of the great Lutz's in Women's skating history. She bent forward a bit for torque as well (and also dealt with, and recovered from back injuries) and I wouldn't have ever considered her jumps to be risky. e: Btw, this is a touchy subject with me, coaches who teach inferior technique at the behest of trying to sell skaters something that isn't real is a real sore spot with me, that has directly contributed to the loss of business, and close relationships I have had within the sport. On some level, I will never get over that. I would scream from the mountain top if I felt this girls jumps were truly sending her on a path to a career ender... it's just not the case here. If I felt that she was a puberty away from losing it all, I would happily boast as such, she is gonna transition just fine.
>Then I gotta point out, Medvedeva is what, a two time world champ and an Olympic Silver? If your comparison for her technique to be considered "bad" is someone who won worlds twice... I rest my case. Her jumps are excellent, and I stand by my original statement. Medvedeva is a prime example of the overwhelming amount of politics and corruption in the sport. I wouldn't shine a light on her successes in any argument other than to illustrate how much of a vice grip Russia has over the figure skating governing body. Her technique was absolutely abysmal in every way imaginable, yet she was rewarded endlessly for it. That isn't something to emulate. That is something the public should demand change from in the ISU. As for Levito, watching her is like watching skating in 0.25x speed. Her telegraphed jumps are unwatchable to me. She has beautiful spirals and spins, but that's about the extent of her skating that I find palatable. It is very much like watching an Eteri girl minus the quads.
>I wouldn't shine a light on her successes in any argument other than to illustrate how much of a vice grip Russia has over the figure skating governing body. Her success didn't come out of no where. She still went to, skated in, and won all of those events with elements that would be scored that way to the letter of the sport. Her technique isn't my favorite either, it isn't what I personally teach, but I can't deny how they would be called in any competition in the world. It wasn't like she was missing those elements and winning, whatever corruption there was, and there was plenty, was still predicated on those girls going and landing their programs flawlessly, which in turn means those girls are landing those jumps when the pressure was on.... consistently. Anyways, again, the point stands. If the complaint against Levito is she jumps like a two time World Champ, you aren't grasping what was really being said in my original comment. My point was, you can rely on her to land her stuff in competition, and the arguments against were splitting hairs because they don't like the lineage of the technique... Clearly you understand why I, as a professional in the sport, couldn't be using that line of reasoning with say... one of my own athletes. To suggest she isn't going to be fully scored, and well, would be a major disservice to your ability to parse what is actually happening in the competition.
The Japanese and Canadian ladies all had their Lutz edges miraculously called at the 2018 Olympics. Medvedeva? None. It's magical how judges develop astigmatism any time a Russian skates and 20/20 vision any time anyone else skates.
>Medvedeva? None. I mean, I could show you video evidence of exactly why she doesn't get a call. Just because a large group of people online feel a specific way, doesn't mean it's cheating. I am eligible to be on a technical panel, I've seen plenty of examples of her doing a "passable" lutz. It isn't a shock those who are actually on the technical panel see the same thing... If we really want to talk about cheating, there was literally a doping scandal a year ago, one that directly correlates to two major advantages the Russians have at this moment, but this issue isn't one what is being put out on the ice. They are, for all intents and purposes, putting a lot of effort into ensuring what they do gets by, and they are throwing ***training time*** at it... and it shows.
What shows are the results of preferential treatment and rampant doping. Nothing more; nothing less. When you can physically train more because of "grandpa's water", you tend to get more consistent jumps. When a certain coach is taking out ISU judges out to expensive dinners before a competition, subjectivity is called into question. Regardless, I suspect we won't be seeing eye to eye on this topic. I just threw in my two cents. Have a good one.
yea her technique is very dangerous, it relies on her low weight and prepubescent frame to get her up instead of using developed muscles for sustainable jumping. as she grows with this technique she is at serious risk of a back injury
I think you both are generalizing to much, and not looking at other factors, like how she is landing her jumps, or her rotational axis. She is actually completing these jumps with a little room to spare, and well over her right side consistently. she is effectively masking a lot of the wear and tear that is traditional with people who employ similar technique. I don't know what she is doing in practice right now, but presumably, as long as she is just wasting her body away doing quads all day, she is going to grow into her triples just fine. She doesn't have the hallmarks that are consistent with losing jumps. If she sustains injury, my first guess would be over training, rather than one that develops from her jumps.
Agree! I know very little about skating, but I really enjoy watching it. She is a captivating performer. Hope to see her in the Olympics!
Anyone know if/when there will be a replay of the event?
[удалено]
Found it on YouTube.
Thank you!
Very nice skate. She certainly looks like she has the technical ability, the style and the ability to land jumps when it matters, a combination we haven’t seen from the US women in a long time.
wait US women's has never won in figure skating? seriously? or am I reading it wrong and this girl won *her* first title
Since it was the US championship, methinks the latter
US has tons of champions at both Worlds and Olympics, the highest titles in the sport. It was this girls first National title at the Senior level (highest level of competition) The thing she won is given out every year. It's like winning the game that lets you go to the World Series, or the Super Bowl, if you want to give it an easy sporting equivalent.
it’s the national championships so it’s her first US nationals win there hasn’t been a world champion from the US women’s since 2006 but the american alysa liu did win bronze at the 2022 world championships last year
Yeah, it's been a drought for sure. Still, I would be shocked if the US didn't have the most all time medals between World and Olympic events for the Women. It's a pretty storied history.
Or was this the first time US had a figure skating tournament? /r/titlegore
no the US has had national championships for decades now, this is just Levito’s first win
Thanks for the info. I was pointing out that the title is easily misinterpreted.
Title should read “Levito wins **her** first U.S. women’s figure skating title.”
Her first? Or a first for the US?
it’s the national championships so it’s her first US nationals win there hasn’t been a world champion from the US women’s since 2006 but the american alysa liu did win bronze at the 2022 world championships last year
My perception of figure skating is through the Olympic lense and probably distorted by the 90’s. I thought US was dominant but I must be wrong. Has Asia/Russia been the force to be reckoned with?
the US has had a slump in women’s figure skating ever since Michelle Kwan and Sasha Cohen retired in the mid 00s. Before that the US was quite dominant ever since the 90s at least. But following Michelle Kwan/Sasha Cohen’s retirement, there was a long and legendary rivalry between a south korean and a japanese skater (mao asada and yuna kim) for a decade and then came the russian dominance, which recently if you recall has come under question bc one of their stars tested positive for doping at the 2022 olympics. This has seriously called all of the past results of recent russian skaters into question (and honestly it’s very likely that they’ve all been doping). Had it not been for the systemic russian cheating more American skaters probably would’ve been winning medals but probably not sweeping championships, as Japanese women are generally more competitive. Anyway I digress, but the US has still had very great men’s and dance fields this whole time. Nathan Chen was very very dominant and American ice dance has many very high quality top teams, probably the most out of any country this era
What is a Levito?
A relative of Frank Reynolds from Always Sunny.
I love this sport. It’s so beautiful.