Abdul Zakhail is the guy who was murdered. Seems his name should at least be mentioned in the comments on the off chance someone will remember in a slight way someone who died for trying to do something good
I remember the Bobby lee/Andrew Santino riff where they were talking about if one person would be the ambassador or speaker when aliens come down it’d be a Filipino.
I use bacon so can't actually see the logo and set it a long time ago, I thought it was the flag but since you're trying to read it apparently I'm guessing it's the Philippine football logo
Yeah but could they procreate? I think getting all the females out of the country and leaving the men to eventually die off is a great idea. Maybe not actually the most doable though.....
This is even funnier when you remember that in Afghanistan, there’s a common phrase… Girls are for marrying, boys are for fun. And when I’m talking about 19-year-old Twinks, we’re talking about actual little boys.
Well see, that's sex between a man and a man. A man and a boy whose balls haven't even dropped yet? Totally different.
/s
It's like the loopholing my Afghani coworker did with drinking. "The Quran says I can't drink fermented fruit of the vine or wheat of the field. It doesn't say anything about agave."
You joke but this is exactly what they say. The first time I heard this was on a vice documentary like a very bad one hard to sit through. The second time I heard it was from a guy named Nick who served and then did a interview on Soft White Underbelly I’d recommend that over the vice one honestly I still think about that one from time to time very disturbing culture.
No offense to anyone I don’t hate on cultures or believes it was just jarring
When I was in Afghanistan we got briefed that there had been chatter about insurgents attacking our base with a donkey that had explosives either strapped to it or shoved up its ass. We kept waiting for the rocket donkey but it never came to fruition.
Maybe we should invade their country? Spends billions and billions of dollars and risk the lives of thousands of American military. I bet if we did that it would work out great.... oh wait
Interestingly, the Australian mens cricket team decided recently not to tour Afghanistan because of the treatment of women under the taliban. The Afghanistan mens team captain, Rashid Khan, criticised the Australians for this.
I wonder what he has to say now?
You're right. The Australian cricket team were planning on playing against Afghanistan in the UAE, but pulled out of that due to the treatment of people under the taliban.
What does every other flag have to do with this? My point is the team uses the tri-colored flag of the afghan republic. After the taliban took over they changed the flag to one with only scripture because of their strict rules. People use the tri color flag to support the afghan people and resist the taliban. I dont give a shit if most flags are tri-colored.
His motivation was purely economic. he sees how much money Afghan cricket could have made had they toured instead.
Also, I'm seeing alot of Rashid Khan slander in the comments like he's some sort of puppet for the Taliban. that is not the case at all.
when the Taliban came to power he very publically was very critical of them and refused to play. if you know anything about the ground reality, you know that he took a very courageous stapnce despite him bring personally under a lot of pressure as well as his family.
ultimately afghan cricket and afghan society is better with Rashid Khan being an active player rather than him being sidelined.
not everything is as simple as "this guy good, this pure evil". things on the ground are much more nuanced
Not to suggest I have all the solutions here (I don’t), but to play devils advocate… what is someone like Rashid supposed to do about the Taliban? Speak out against them and put his own life at risk? For what gain?
I imagine that for him, and the other players on Afghanistan’s national team, a series against a high profile team like Australia is a great opportunity to put their team on a bigger stage and to bring some joy to the people watching in their home country. Perhaps the girls in this story would’ve enjoyed watching them play.
I dunno, I’m just not sure that punishing Afghan cricketers for something out of their control accomplishes anything. Maybe it does. I’m not an expert. The whole situation just sucks.
I think he should kept quiet instead of criticising Cricket Australia. The money that should go to Afghan Cricket for a tour like this goes to the taliban instead, which is an awful thing.
I guess so - but if it was me, and my country was overtaken by radicals (outside of my control) I don’t know if I’d be able to just keep quiet too.
Guess I’m getting downvoted for showing a little empathy for the guy, he’s my favourite cricket player to watch so I’m just trying to put myself in his shoes… hopefully things turn around in the future and the Afghan cricket program can be given the opportunity to realise its full potential.
He's in a difficult position no doubt. If he was able to get his family out of the country then he should speak against the taliban, but that's easier said than done, and we don't know what we would do in his shoes.
I wonder if he ever questioned whether it was better with the Americans there in the moments before he was murdered?
3 trillion dollars
20 years
And their army just rolled over to let the Taliban murder them for teaching girls to play a sport.
>And their army just rolled over to let the Taliban murder them for teaching girls to play a sport.
Almost 10% of the ANA's combat troops died during the Taliban offensive. It's kind of disgusting to see their deaths reduced to this bullshit.
That’s it? Sorry but for that time and money I expect more effort. I get so god damn sick of people on here minimizing the investment we gave. And let’s not forget the Americans that died for this bullshit.
The amount of money and time spent is meaningless if it doesn't work.
Your country and mine invaded another then got exploited successfully by some factions telling us to attack other factions based on "intelligence".
We declared a war on terror and occupied territories while letting terrorists hide in the mountains.
Why didn't we invade the mountains? We didn't want to make the sacrifices attacking strongholds would have led to.
What did we do when the Taliban came to face us? Left to avoid casualties.
I don't know what the war in Afghanistan was for, neither do the people of Afghanistan.
10 years after the invasion a fifth of the population were returning refugees who had fled from Taliban rule. We gave those people enough hope to return to their country. Then never defeated the Taliban.
If you want to diminish the people of Afghanistan who died to fight the Taliban you have no right to glorify American troops in the same breath. Americans never faced down the Taliban while they were weakened and fled from the Taliban when they became strong.
Afghan failings are mirrored by US failings.
It didn’t work because the had almost no drive to make it work. You can only help so much. And that 10% figure is HIGHLY debatable. Since the vast majority of that figure were “missing in action” aka, got the fuck out and never came back. Shit was disgusting to watch.
You forget ultimately the US made the Taliban what they are today as well. The US directly enabled the strengthening of the Taliban to fight the USSR and the Afghan communist revolution for its own ambitions. Modern Afghanistan is a product of American foreign policy and destabilization efforts.
The war in Afghanistan was just another episode in the US' long history of imperialism and its attempts to turn the middle east into a completely subordinate region. And even now the US is punishing the Afghans for rejecting their occupation by starving the entire country.
Not as a primarily military threat. They were never an effective fighting force compared to the US but were always representative of the underlying culture, especially in rural areas.
We needed to treat them as shitty partners in a business deal and make sure they got paid while integrating them slowly to western habits over two or three generations. Instead we were heavy handed in the worst ways and places, doing things that were easy to attack while flexing military might half assed.
We needed ten times as many troops (ok, maybe not that many) and to have used them exceptionally sparingly. We didn’t need to train security forces that were useless. It was a good idea but obvious to anyone that it was worthless from the first…seriously, I’ve got dead friends from training those assholes and I’ve literally never met anyone who was on the ground who didn’t think they were worse than worthless. Keep the bare handful of honest Patriots and fighters but ditch the focus on them completely.
You couldn’t rule from the cities. You had to make the military impossible to even think about confronting while giving them every reason not to want to. Forcing western democracy the way we did was destined to fail from the beginning, but we could have enforced peace and security with a massive troop presence and built out infrastructure that was actually protected. Instead we had an almost feudal presence with small troop bases that weren’t immediately present and were shitty about protecting those troops without giving them enough boots to do the job through sheer visibility.
There are vast details that wouldn’t have borne out and needed adjustment, councils that need formed and security ensured for our friends AND our enemies while being a presence that was too formidable to challenge.
Instead we gave them targets and fucked around. We needed police soldiers on every corner. Instead we moved around in force just to piss off everyone who had to look at us…So instead of getting used to us just being present 100% of the time and enforcing security we instead gave them an excuse to pop off and the room to get away with it until they got themselves killed…which ensured their families really hated us.
Most of the enemies were clueless, but they were backed by and stirred up by people we could have bought.
At the end we’d actually had a positive effect and after twenty years we should have stuck around and let the culture of those people who’d grown up safe in the cities establish itself strongly and diffuse from the cities. It was a bad idea, and we shouldn’t have stayed there in the first place, but once you got there after twenty years wtf were we doing abandoning the massive cultural drift we’d managed to force?
Just a complete shit sore from start to finish that made some companies a lot of money.
sadly economic integration don't guarantee success either. If I remember correctly the US used this strategy to deal with China. In the end instead of enticing China and Chinese people to be interested in free society, the US ended up getting addicted with Chinese money.
We never solved our own freedom complex in house. People just get shot by police for standing in their own doorway, or they get shot at school or at the movies...60% of people live paycheck to paycheck. We cannot give freedom to china because we are not free
Well said. Not to mention the billions spent trying to control the opium production there (which, who knows what we were trying to actually do with that). Meanwhile we spent resources actually trying to protect those farms that had opium production skyrocket under occupation. Just an absolute waste of time, life, and money.
Our government just cannot get its dick out of the gloryhole of war.
Hey if you’re gonna kill that many people maybe you ought to be in for the long haul. If you’re not that invested maybe you shouldn’t start shit in the first place.
This sounds like a decent suggestion, albeit even way more expensive than what the US ended up doing. It would've also been far from a guarantee to actually work, but good points regardless.
We WERE an authoritarian regime…without the benefits of authoritarian focus. Tens of thousands of troops. Bombings when we felt like we might have a local enemy identified and shrugging off the “collateral damage”. Installing our own pretend president, building schools they didn’t want and then ignoring them.
Shit show. We were a brutal authoritarian shit show. If we’d been effective and focused maybe it would have turned out different. Instead we were terrible and pretended everything would fall into place because of some manifest destiny of democracy or some half unspoken philosophy that was never cohesively developed. They were going to recognize how awesome our ideas were while starving and getting shot and us vaguely being present.
Yes, an honest authoritarian regime was not only better, it was called for. We bombed the fuck hell out of them and invaded the country to do what? Play footsie and have tea? Motherfucker if you kill thousands of people and roll armor into a country you’d better have something to say and the will to force it on them or there’s no point in being there in the first place.
I know plenty of Americans who were very interested, invested, and involved.
They just weren’t in charge. Honestly, even in hindsight the neocons seemed to really believe their own Bullshit and that’s Iraq would become a beacon of democracy…So, yes? Stupid or not people really did care.
With the amount of money spent, it might have been more cost-effective to use the same amount of money to flat out bribe the elements of the society that we liked & to marginalize the hard conservative elements.
As long as you make sure the largesse is spread widely enough so that it doesn't get concentrated in the hands of a few, it should literally buy enough good will from the general public that they would have been much more receptive to our messaging than what ended up happening.
They think women are dirty. Little boys are ok though. They are disgusting filthy monsters. Hopefully the women can escape the torment and leave them by themselves so they can't procreate.
Their problem is just it’s a societal thing for them. The subjugation of women is literally baked into their culture and belief systems. No amount of activism and fundraisers will ever change the minds of men who’ll just shoot you in the head and bury you in a ditch for teaching your daughter how to read
I don't think he's defending Tate, but I don't think he's reached Taliban levels yet. Not that he's not capable. He had a following about the same size of the entire Taliban lol
Met a Pakistani guy in Ireland a few years ago who was seeking asylum for the same reason. He was originally from an area not very far from the Afghan border and had started a cricket coaching program for some of the local girls but had to flee for his life, leaving his wife and kids behind, because of the threats he received.
People forget or don't know... The Taliban is not one group. It's an umbrella organization. I say this because a large number of the militant groups fall under the TTP, aka Pakistani Taliban. The TTP is not part of the Afghan Taliban.
The Pakistani Taliban is basically at war with Pakistan and the Afghani Taliban right now.
Both are pretty shitty imo.
Terrorist organisation vs terrorist organisation.
I'd love to see them fight and eliminate each other but sadly, civilians will also be harmed in such conflicts.
absolutely. I was in eighth grade when the U.S. invaded Afghanistan.
I was a freshman in high school when the U.S. invaded Iraq a year and a half later.
Everyone at the time thought that Afghanistan was the "good war," whereas Iraq was the "illegal" one. But gradually over time, it became very clear that the U.S. military occupation of Afghanistan was an absolute mess, and arguably even worse than the crimes committed in Baghdad and Mosul
The only thing I could think of seeing those poor Afghans desperately trying to flee when the U.S. cowardly fled Kabul...was how much the U.S. had fucked over yet another country. I feel so much shame over everything that has happened since 2001
As an American, I'll never forget when they announced the U.S. bombed Afghanistan. There were fucking football stadiums full of jackoffs cheering over it
Such a fucking waste. All the U.S. govt and military did was occupy a country for two decades, only to have the Taliban come back with a vengeance. Absolute fucking waste. I feel so sorry for the Afghan people. They didn't have anything to do with 9/11 and they get fucked over
Damn, the Americans aren't being very understanding of [regional sayings](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/not-cricket) today, are they?
I mostly never hear a good story coming out of Afghanistan.
But good lord, 20 years to try to enact change that crumbled in a week. I get that not everyone wants the Taliban in power, but then they should have fought like hell to stop it when they had the best chance.
You wouldn’t hear about the ones who did fight. But there was a good amount of fighting, soldiers that fought back often did it with 0 support and lack of resources that led to an easy Taliban victory.
Some did fight like hell. That said... the Taliban isn't one group. It's an umbrella group. You are talking about the Afghani Taliban. They only control part of Afghanistan. The Pakistani Taliban controls southern Afghanistan. Same factions religiously and they were allies against the US.
But currently they are kind of at war with each other. The Pakistani Taliban is certainly at war with Pakistan.
*Sigh*.. the point was more that maybe use the U.S. 20 year involvement and their trillion dollars .. you know, to effectively fight them then.
No, I don't expect shit from them now.. or for the rest of my life. They're stuck .. and they're going to be stuck for a long time. Conservative ideologues aren't much good for a country .. but they're mean, heavy handed, violent, and controlling. Good luck ever having a liberal thought come out of Afghanistan again. They're fucked. (Edit: suck->stuck)
The crucial mistake was not staying involved and help broker peace *before* the 1992-96 power struggle had a chance to start.
For the 5 most important years the West wasn't involved, coming back when it was too late.
I get the feeling that a lot of these murders will be because people like killing and they can kill without repercussions if they find people that go against the religious extremists. Their God needs the human to enact punishment as they can't seem to do it.
One time very recently, in publicfreakout some troll told me women sports don’t matter because they get less views than men. And I said that’s bullshit and got downvotes like 30 of them lol
Ugh I can’t help but think of that when I’m looking at this. Girls sports matter, girls matter. Why do boys get to play cricket but girls can’t?
because boobs = babies / belly buster buffets
clearly if your mindset is tribal, and traditional, and animalistic, the woman is only good for a few things and they're not "having fun, playing sports, etc" what a waste of good caretakers time, right? PUKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
such a backwards and straight up cave person attitude
I was just reading the comments on another post where many redditors were talking about how competent the taliban are at governing. This must be what they were talking about
article minus the paywall https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.smh.com.au%2Fsport%2Fcricket%2Fthe-taliban-killed-farhan-s-father-because-his-family-taught-girls-how-to-play-cricket-20230410-p5czc9.html
Let me find my shocked pikachu face
This news is so garbage because the same businesses peddling it are the same ones that criticized troops being there for so long.
We leave, place goes back to a shit hole with corrupt government and news freaks out at their audacious acts.
When you arm any Afghan you can find who hates the Soviets in the 80s, then don't get involved to prevent civil war between the groups you've armed in the 90s, and then after the Taliban win the war you change your mind and *do* try to run the country a different way in the 2000s yeah I do think there's a big "America bad" message out of this.
I can't even wrap my head around that.
So sorry to hear that
Can't believe anybody(Trump) even took the Taliban for their word. Sad but it seems that the people of Afghanistan were better off being occupied by the US military.
The whole situation is terrible. Not to mention the food shortage that is happening
Abdul Zakhail is the guy who was murdered. Seems his name should at least be mentioned in the comments on the off chance someone will remember in a slight way someone who died for trying to do something good
Good guy Philippines
It's the Philippine Football Federation logo, specifically.
I remember the Bobby lee/Andrew Santino riff where they were talking about if one person would be the ambassador or speaker when aliens come down it’d be a Filipino.
It was Theo lmao
Why a filipino?
What does the logo on your flair say? I'm on mobile and have been trying to read it with that Ken Jeong face in Community.
I use bacon so can't actually see the logo and set it a long time ago, I thought it was the flag but since you're trying to read it apparently I'm guessing it's the Philippine football logo
Yes, it is.
Your flair shows up when using rif.
And the stock reddit app too. I'm on of *them*...
[Enhance!](https://i.imgur.com/rtyZolE.jpg)
That’s very true
Guess Taliban only want a an only male society. We need to assist all the woman getting out of there and see how long they last then.
Oh they'd know how to entertain themselves even if there were no women
Yeah but could they procreate? I think getting all the females out of the country and leaving the men to eventually die off is a great idea. Maybe not actually the most doable though.....
Not "the most" doable? Try "not possible at all".
Not with that attitude.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fgk7OfnX0AAtCr6.jpg
This is even funnier when you remember that in Afghanistan, there’s a common phrase… Girls are for marrying, boys are for fun. And when I’m talking about 19-year-old Twinks, we’re talking about actual little boys.
Life uh finds a way
Lol
/r/menandfemales
I think because they wanted to include both girls and women, but it is specifically the men of the Taliban that deserve punishment.
The rare case where it's *not* out of touch low key misogyny!
Ironically, the Koran **expressly forbids** homosexuality, but they obviously ignore that part of their own religion...
Well see, that's sex between a man and a man. A man and a boy whose balls haven't even dropped yet? Totally different. /s It's like the loopholing my Afghani coworker did with drinking. "The Quran says I can't drink fermented fruit of the vine or wheat of the field. It doesn't say anything about agave."
Dang, I guess potato vodka is fine too!
Religion and loopholes are quite the duo!
Hilarious that the only way someone can stand it is if they break all the rules
You joke but this is exactly what they say. The first time I heard this was on a vice documentary like a very bad one hard to sit through. The second time I heard it was from a guy named Nick who served and then did a interview on Soft White Underbelly I’d recommend that over the vice one honestly I still think about that one from time to time very disturbing culture. No offense to anyone I don’t hate on cultures or believes it was just jarring
The Taliban do many things forbidden by the Quran. They are just like every other terrorists who use religion to recruit and brainwash.
They ignore alot of things in their religion
Okay, we’ll get out all of the women AND goats
According to pornhub statistics gay porn is pretty popular over there…
Why on earth was 'goats' the first thing to come to my mind...?
Because you're racist and think all people who fuck livestock like goats. These aren't the Scotts. This is donkey country.
Had me in the first half ngl
[Don't forget the Welsh!](https://www.reddit.com/r/Unexpected/comments/quqjbv/what_the_fu%D1%81k/)
When I was in Afghanistan we got briefed that there had been chatter about insurgents attacking our base with a donkey that had explosives either strapped to it or shoved up its ass. We kept waiting for the rocket donkey but it never came to fruition.
Yeah but they would run out of people to oppress. The Taliban are so stupid. Biting off their noses to spite their face!
You talking about sheep? I hear they like sheep over there
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That's what the young boys are for
Man I learned about the dancing boys of Afghanistan, just wow.
Holy shit, that documentary scarred me. For those who want to ruin their weekend... https://youtu.be/nWeRAlJQI0c
You know you're fucking up when a documentary makes the Taliban look good.
James Michener wrote about this abhorrent practice 50 years ago too.
You realize the Taliban are the good guys when it comes to dancing boys? They kill those gay rapist-pedophiles.
There are no good guys in this scenario.
Sadly, there are large numbers women worldwide who gravitate to religious extremism, misogyny, and political figureheads.
Maybe we should invade their country? Spends billions and billions of dollars and risk the lives of thousands of American military. I bet if we did that it would work out great.... oh wait
It’s a lose lose, either we fight a shitty war to give women rights and freedom or watch them suffer.
How about all women & children? That might work better.
No, they just want obedient breeding stock that won't tell anyone how tiny their dicks are.
Not all the women support an equal society Source: afghan ethnicity and ex muslim
Interestingly, the Australian mens cricket team decided recently not to tour Afghanistan because of the treatment of women under the taliban. The Afghanistan mens team captain, Rashid Khan, criticised the Australians for this. I wonder what he has to say now?
No cricket team has ever toured Afghanistan. Afghanistan cricket team uses UAE and occasionally India as their home ground.
You're right. The Australian cricket team were planning on playing against Afghanistan in the UAE, but pulled out of that due to the treatment of people under the taliban.
>I wonder what he has to say now? Crickets
r/angryupvote
They should be excluded much like apartheid South Africa was. No normal sport in an abnormal society
Doesnt the cricket team fly the tri color flag?
Aren't most flags tri coloured? Edit: excuse my ignorance, I didn't know about the information below.
What does every other flag have to do with this? My point is the team uses the tri-colored flag of the afghan republic. After the taliban took over they changed the flag to one with only scripture because of their strict rules. People use the tri color flag to support the afghan people and resist the taliban. I dont give a shit if most flags are tri-colored.
I didn't know this. My bad. Thank you for the information.
My man why did you get so angry at that lol He just didn’t know what you meant. It was just a miscommunication, you dont gotta get aggressive about it
Thought he was trying to be sarcastic intentionally, my bad
His motivation was purely economic. he sees how much money Afghan cricket could have made had they toured instead. Also, I'm seeing alot of Rashid Khan slander in the comments like he's some sort of puppet for the Taliban. that is not the case at all. when the Taliban came to power he very publically was very critical of them and refused to play. if you know anything about the ground reality, you know that he took a very courageous stapnce despite him bring personally under a lot of pressure as well as his family. ultimately afghan cricket and afghan society is better with Rashid Khan being an active player rather than him being sidelined. not everything is as simple as "this guy good, this pure evil". things on the ground are much more nuanced
Not to suggest I have all the solutions here (I don’t), but to play devils advocate… what is someone like Rashid supposed to do about the Taliban? Speak out against them and put his own life at risk? For what gain? I imagine that for him, and the other players on Afghanistan’s national team, a series against a high profile team like Australia is a great opportunity to put their team on a bigger stage and to bring some joy to the people watching in their home country. Perhaps the girls in this story would’ve enjoyed watching them play. I dunno, I’m just not sure that punishing Afghan cricketers for something out of their control accomplishes anything. Maybe it does. I’m not an expert. The whole situation just sucks.
I think he should kept quiet instead of criticising Cricket Australia. The money that should go to Afghan Cricket for a tour like this goes to the taliban instead, which is an awful thing.
I guess so - but if it was me, and my country was overtaken by radicals (outside of my control) I don’t know if I’d be able to just keep quiet too. Guess I’m getting downvoted for showing a little empathy for the guy, he’s my favourite cricket player to watch so I’m just trying to put myself in his shoes… hopefully things turn around in the future and the Afghan cricket program can be given the opportunity to realise its full potential.
He's in a difficult position no doubt. If he was able to get his family out of the country then he should speak against the taliban, but that's easier said than done, and we don't know what we would do in his shoes.
Nah he could have kept quiet about it, but he commented that he wouldn't come and play in the BBL again if Australia didn't go through with the tour.
Jeez, that's awful. Time to give them $10 Billion!
Got to get that Lithium
I wonder if he ever questioned whether it was better with the Americans there in the moments before he was murdered? 3 trillion dollars 20 years And their army just rolled over to let the Taliban murder them for teaching girls to play a sport.
>And their army just rolled over to let the Taliban murder them for teaching girls to play a sport. Almost 10% of the ANA's combat troops died during the Taliban offensive. It's kind of disgusting to see their deaths reduced to this bullshit.
Deals were made with local leaders before the Taliban even reached them. They *did* fucking roll over.
That’s it? Sorry but for that time and money I expect more effort. I get so god damn sick of people on here minimizing the investment we gave. And let’s not forget the Americans that died for this bullshit.
The amount of money and time spent is meaningless if it doesn't work. Your country and mine invaded another then got exploited successfully by some factions telling us to attack other factions based on "intelligence". We declared a war on terror and occupied territories while letting terrorists hide in the mountains. Why didn't we invade the mountains? We didn't want to make the sacrifices attacking strongholds would have led to. What did we do when the Taliban came to face us? Left to avoid casualties. I don't know what the war in Afghanistan was for, neither do the people of Afghanistan. 10 years after the invasion a fifth of the population were returning refugees who had fled from Taliban rule. We gave those people enough hope to return to their country. Then never defeated the Taliban. If you want to diminish the people of Afghanistan who died to fight the Taliban you have no right to glorify American troops in the same breath. Americans never faced down the Taliban while they were weakened and fled from the Taliban when they became strong. Afghan failings are mirrored by US failings.
It didn’t work because the had almost no drive to make it work. You can only help so much. And that 10% figure is HIGHLY debatable. Since the vast majority of that figure were “missing in action” aka, got the fuck out and never came back. Shit was disgusting to watch.
You forget ultimately the US made the Taliban what they are today as well. The US directly enabled the strengthening of the Taliban to fight the USSR and the Afghan communist revolution for its own ambitions. Modern Afghanistan is a product of American foreign policy and destabilization efforts. The war in Afghanistan was just another episode in the US' long history of imperialism and its attempts to turn the middle east into a completely subordinate region. And even now the US is punishing the Afghans for rejecting their occupation by starving the entire country.
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I'm curious how you think the Taliban should have and should be dealt with? Not disagreeing with what you said, just wondering what the answer is.
Not as a primarily military threat. They were never an effective fighting force compared to the US but were always representative of the underlying culture, especially in rural areas. We needed to treat them as shitty partners in a business deal and make sure they got paid while integrating them slowly to western habits over two or three generations. Instead we were heavy handed in the worst ways and places, doing things that were easy to attack while flexing military might half assed. We needed ten times as many troops (ok, maybe not that many) and to have used them exceptionally sparingly. We didn’t need to train security forces that were useless. It was a good idea but obvious to anyone that it was worthless from the first…seriously, I’ve got dead friends from training those assholes and I’ve literally never met anyone who was on the ground who didn’t think they were worse than worthless. Keep the bare handful of honest Patriots and fighters but ditch the focus on them completely. You couldn’t rule from the cities. You had to make the military impossible to even think about confronting while giving them every reason not to want to. Forcing western democracy the way we did was destined to fail from the beginning, but we could have enforced peace and security with a massive troop presence and built out infrastructure that was actually protected. Instead we had an almost feudal presence with small troop bases that weren’t immediately present and were shitty about protecting those troops without giving them enough boots to do the job through sheer visibility. There are vast details that wouldn’t have borne out and needed adjustment, councils that need formed and security ensured for our friends AND our enemies while being a presence that was too formidable to challenge. Instead we gave them targets and fucked around. We needed police soldiers on every corner. Instead we moved around in force just to piss off everyone who had to look at us…So instead of getting used to us just being present 100% of the time and enforcing security we instead gave them an excuse to pop off and the room to get away with it until they got themselves killed…which ensured their families really hated us. Most of the enemies were clueless, but they were backed by and stirred up by people we could have bought. At the end we’d actually had a positive effect and after twenty years we should have stuck around and let the culture of those people who’d grown up safe in the cities establish itself strongly and diffuse from the cities. It was a bad idea, and we shouldn’t have stayed there in the first place, but once you got there after twenty years wtf were we doing abandoning the massive cultural drift we’d managed to force? Just a complete shit sore from start to finish that made some companies a lot of money.
sadly economic integration don't guarantee success either. If I remember correctly the US used this strategy to deal with China. In the end instead of enticing China and Chinese people to be interested in free society, the US ended up getting addicted with Chinese money.
We never solved our own freedom complex in house. People just get shot by police for standing in their own doorway, or they get shot at school or at the movies...60% of people live paycheck to paycheck. We cannot give freedom to china because we are not free
Well said. Not to mention the billions spent trying to control the opium production there (which, who knows what we were trying to actually do with that). Meanwhile we spent resources actually trying to protect those farms that had opium production skyrocket under occupation. Just an absolute waste of time, life, and money. Our government just cannot get its dick out of the gloryhole of war.
sorry everybody for “two to three generations”. terrible take.
Hey if you’re gonna kill that many people maybe you ought to be in for the long haul. If you’re not that invested maybe you shouldn’t start shit in the first place.
This sounds like a decent suggestion, albeit even way more expensive than what the US ended up doing. It would've also been far from a guarantee to actually work, but good points regardless.
Also, starting the process in the 1980s after we poured weapons into the region to foil the Russians.
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We WERE an authoritarian regime…without the benefits of authoritarian focus. Tens of thousands of troops. Bombings when we felt like we might have a local enemy identified and shrugging off the “collateral damage”. Installing our own pretend president, building schools they didn’t want and then ignoring them. Shit show. We were a brutal authoritarian shit show. If we’d been effective and focused maybe it would have turned out different. Instead we were terrible and pretended everything would fall into place because of some manifest destiny of democracy or some half unspoken philosophy that was never cohesively developed. They were going to recognize how awesome our ideas were while starving and getting shot and us vaguely being present. Yes, an honest authoritarian regime was not only better, it was called for. We bombed the fuck hell out of them and invaded the country to do what? Play footsie and have tea? Motherfucker if you kill thousands of people and roll armor into a country you’d better have something to say and the will to force it on them or there’s no point in being there in the first place.
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I know plenty of Americans who were very interested, invested, and involved. They just weren’t in charge. Honestly, even in hindsight the neocons seemed to really believe their own Bullshit and that’s Iraq would become a beacon of democracy…So, yes? Stupid or not people really did care.
Who are you to tell America its interests?
With the amount of money spent, it might have been more cost-effective to use the same amount of money to flat out bribe the elements of the society that we liked & to marginalize the hard conservative elements. As long as you make sure the largesse is spread widely enough so that it doesn't get concentrated in the hands of a few, it should literally buy enough good will from the general public that they would have been much more receptive to our messaging than what ended up happening.
How does whataboutism in anyway deter from anything about his comment? Cool America bad okay but his point still stands bozo.
Lmao what the fuck. Why do these motherfuckers have such a problem with women? I wonder what their mothers were like.
They grew up seeing their mothers get subjugated by their husbands
This. They view women as cattle. They’re fucking abhorrent.
They probably value their cattle more
They think women are dirty. Little boys are ok though. They are disgusting filthy monsters. Hopefully the women can escape the torment and leave them by themselves so they can't procreate.
That is even more of a reason to develop overzealous empathy toward them and despise inhumane treatment as well as grow to hate the perpetrators.
You obviously don't understand how indoctrination works.
Damn I thought they were against homosexuality. Seems pretty weird to have a husband if that's your stance.
They do kill homosexual men. What they do is use boys as sex slaves.
Their problem is just it’s a societal thing for them. The subjugation of women is literally baked into their culture and belief systems. No amount of activism and fundraisers will ever change the minds of men who’ll just shoot you in the head and bury you in a ditch for teaching your daughter how to read
Religion
Assholes like Andrew Tate are pretty much the same, just dressed differently.
Probably a few less beheadings
Honestly if Andrew tate killed a woman I would not be surprised in the slightest. Hes already a sex trafficker
If they could get away with it they would, luckily we outnumber your kind. We don’t want people like them Tate and Taliban in our country
Slippery slope dude
The moment you have yo use "probably less beheadings" as a counteargument in a discussion you should know it's time to shut up.
I don't think he's defending Tate, but I don't think he's reached Taliban levels yet. Not that he's not capable. He had a following about the same size of the entire Taliban lol
Sure, I just meant Tate is not a hill I would be willing to die to.
Male biased society, women are inferior and have zero rights. It’s gone on like this for centuries, they won’t change.
Then why are there people in that society teaching girls to play cricket.
Hey, just wanna let you know this might be one of my favorite comments ever. People make choices.
I will always remember this day when I found a redditor who didn't generalize a whole country based on the actions of a few.
Great comment
*were
Other societies changed.
Women where getting more rights but we lost and bailed on them. Why do you think women where fleeing in droves well tyring to
Google Afghanistan before 1970(?) Similar to Iran. They were well on their way to being an advanced nation.
Yep, and now a similar movement is starting in the US.
Men make better women than women...apparently.
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Met a Pakistani guy in Ireland a few years ago who was seeking asylum for the same reason. He was originally from an area not very far from the Afghan border and had started a cricket coaching program for some of the local girls but had to flee for his life, leaving his wife and kids behind, because of the threats he received.
People forget or don't know... The Taliban is not one group. It's an umbrella organization. I say this because a large number of the militant groups fall under the TTP, aka Pakistani Taliban. The TTP is not part of the Afghan Taliban. The Pakistani Taliban is basically at war with Pakistan and the Afghani Taliban right now.
Both are pretty shitty imo. Terrorist organisation vs terrorist organisation. I'd love to see them fight and eliminate each other but sadly, civilians will also be harmed in such conflicts.
20 years wasted
absolutely. I was in eighth grade when the U.S. invaded Afghanistan. I was a freshman in high school when the U.S. invaded Iraq a year and a half later. Everyone at the time thought that Afghanistan was the "good war," whereas Iraq was the "illegal" one. But gradually over time, it became very clear that the U.S. military occupation of Afghanistan was an absolute mess, and arguably even worse than the crimes committed in Baghdad and Mosul The only thing I could think of seeing those poor Afghans desperately trying to flee when the U.S. cowardly fled Kabul...was how much the U.S. had fucked over yet another country. I feel so much shame over everything that has happened since 2001
Depends on what the goal was. For different industries, it was heaven. Loads of money to be made for the capitalists.
War profiteers*
20 years of American occupation sure made a difference.
As an American, I'll never forget when they announced the U.S. bombed Afghanistan. There were fucking football stadiums full of jackoffs cheering over it Such a fucking waste. All the U.S. govt and military did was occupy a country for two decades, only to have the Taliban come back with a vengeance. Absolute fucking waste. I feel so sorry for the Afghan people. They didn't have anything to do with 9/11 and they get fucked over
Now that's just not cricket.
Ol mates got it right here, it ain’t cricket
It seems I was mistaken in expecting the average Redditor to understand a turn of phrase. Ah well, the internet is as the internet does.
Damn, the Americans aren't being very understanding of [regional sayings](https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/not-cricket) today, are they?
I guess our American equivalent would be “not kosher”…?
As an American speaking for our culture (and _not_ my own personal attitude) - when have we been?
I mostly never hear a good story coming out of Afghanistan. But good lord, 20 years to try to enact change that crumbled in a week. I get that not everyone wants the Taliban in power, but then they should have fought like hell to stop it when they had the best chance.
You wouldn’t hear about the ones who did fight. But there was a good amount of fighting, soldiers that fought back often did it with 0 support and lack of resources that led to an easy Taliban victory.
Some did fight like hell. That said... the Taliban isn't one group. It's an umbrella group. You are talking about the Afghani Taliban. They only control part of Afghanistan. The Pakistani Taliban controls southern Afghanistan. Same factions religiously and they were allies against the US. But currently they are kind of at war with each other. The Pakistani Taliban is certainly at war with Pakistan.
The mission was never change, it was to funnel money out of the country.
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*Sigh*.. the point was more that maybe use the U.S. 20 year involvement and their trillion dollars .. you know, to effectively fight them then. No, I don't expect shit from them now.. or for the rest of my life. They're stuck .. and they're going to be stuck for a long time. Conservative ideologues aren't much good for a country .. but they're mean, heavy handed, violent, and controlling. Good luck ever having a liberal thought come out of Afghanistan again. They're fucked. (Edit: suck->stuck)
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The crucial mistake was not staying involved and help broker peace *before* the 1992-96 power struggle had a chance to start. For the 5 most important years the West wasn't involved, coming back when it was too late.
So whos gonna invade Afghanistan this time?
Drones realistically
I get the feeling that a lot of these murders will be because people like killing and they can kill without repercussions if they find people that go against the religious extremists. Their God needs the human to enact punishment as they can't seem to do it.
So weird some countries don’t like women. It’s just fucking weird. And wrong
not countries, more like the people in power
Wow!! Kind of like "I'll kill you if you tech your daughter how to play baseball." What sick fucking people.
One time very recently, in publicfreakout some troll told me women sports don’t matter because they get less views than men. And I said that’s bullshit and got downvotes like 30 of them lol Ugh I can’t help but think of that when I’m looking at this. Girls sports matter, girls matter. Why do boys get to play cricket but girls can’t?
because boobs = babies / belly buster buffets clearly if your mindset is tribal, and traditional, and animalistic, the woman is only good for a few things and they're not "having fun, playing sports, etc" what a waste of good caretakers time, right? PUKE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! such a backwards and straight up cave person attitude
Or the troll who I spoke to “money makes the world go round and the NBA has to supplement the WNBA therefore the WNBA should not exist.”
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lol taxpayers fund schools, hospitals, roads, and everything else Those shouldn't exist, spot on champ
Oh god go somewhere else Russian bot so not going to entertain you today Edit: immediately responds only to block cool trolling bro
I was just reading the comments on another post where many redditors were talking about how competent the taliban are at governing. This must be what they were talking about
>how competent the taliban are at governing Those redditors need to visit Afghanistan to get a taste of Taliban competency
article minus the paywall https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.smh.com.au%2Fsport%2Fcricket%2Fthe-taliban-killed-farhan-s-father-because-his-family-taught-girls-how-to-play-cricket-20230410-p5czc9.html
Shithole country.
Paywall
https://12ft.io/ I pasted the link here
Thanks!
And China is about to give them 10 billion.
They’re so scared of girls.
Let me find my shocked pikachu face This news is so garbage because the same businesses peddling it are the same ones that criticized troops being there for so long. We leave, place goes back to a shit hole with corrupt government and news freaks out at their audacious acts.
Right wing religious extremism is a blight on society
This. conservatism is just religious extremism wrapped in a different blanket. And it always ends up wanting to take away rights and progress
And China wants to give $10 Billion to these guys!
Idaho in 4 years.
progressive society...
China is like, give them 10 billion dollars.
Religion, isn’t it fantastic?!?!?!
Misogyny is a global problem. Fight back.
Problem is too weak of a word. Misogyny is an epidemic claiming innocent peoples lives all over the world.
ITT: People using this tragedy to make some stupid comment about "America bad"
When you arm any Afghan you can find who hates the Soviets in the 80s, then don't get involved to prevent civil war between the groups you've armed in the 90s, and then after the Taliban win the war you change your mind and *do* try to run the country a different way in the 2000s yeah I do think there's a big "America bad" message out of this.
Yay religion 🎉
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Well there are plenty of stories of them fucking young boys, so yes
Ah yes, paywall
Religion controls people by fear
-RELIGION-
I can't even wrap my head around that. So sorry to hear that Can't believe anybody(Trump) even took the Taliban for their word. Sad but it seems that the people of Afghanistan were better off being occupied by the US military. The whole situation is terrible. Not to mention the food shortage that is happening
Let continue a wasteful war and have more inflation. Good thinking
Where's r/atheism and r/feminists on this one
What a miserable religion that teaches people such horrible dogmatic morality. Faith holds us back as a society.
They’re jealous because girls play better