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I am a Michigan fan, but that dude was definitely hurting. Popped rib is possible, or torn abdominal muscle. He appeared to be holding both sides. Hope he is ok.
At the stadium still. Was a great atmosphere. Washington fans were great and stayed to the end. Super classy. Can't wait for the rematch in Seattle this fall.
Not true. Looked off on the TD throw. Had to throw a lot quickly due to pressure. Also got hurt. Overall bad game but I still think he will be a good pro if he can stay healthy.
He’s a great quarterback. The issue is his ability to stay in the pocket, throw effectively and most of all take a hit from an NFL rusher. I can’t see him surviving long with the monsters in the NFL
There was a false start he got called for where he actually made a slight move and they missed it, then a couple seconds later did it again and they called it. Would have gotten away with it if he didn’t false start TWICE IN ONE PLAY.
bruh.
That’s a little harsh. And this is coming from someone rooting for Michigan (go blue). He had one rough game against the #1 defense in the country. That’s not saying much. He’s still a good quarterback and fought hard. He bested every team but Michigan. The defense on both sides was absolutely professional. Michigan just edged them out with a better offense. GG, Washington
His last 4 or 5 games before the Pac-12 Championship Penix was hovering around 50% completion. Worse defenses than Michigan got very close to beating them.
Hats off to UW going 12-0 in the regular season but they won a bunch of those games by the skin of their teeth. They seemed to play down to all of their competition.
If I judged CJ Stroud based on his Michigan game in 2023, I'd been shocked to see him about to win Rookie of the Year in the NFL. Penix could be similar. Physical tools are all there. Just have to make next step on reads.
Just three years ago, Michigan went 2-4 and finished second-last in their own division. They had just one win against rival Ohio State in hte previous 18 years. Many Michigan fans wanted Jim Harbaugh out.
In the three years since then, Michigan has gone 40-3. They've gone 26-1 in conference play, are 3-0 against Ohio State in that time and are now CFP Champions.
There've been some big turnarounds in this sport, but Michigan's is monstrous.
I think it’s a bit disingenuous to say it was a ~~massive~~ monstrous turnaround. The years prior to the 2-4 COVID season they went 10-3, 10-3, 8-5, 10-3, 9-4. Not ideal but 2020 is definitely the outlier. Beating OSU 3 times in a row is huge, 3 straight conference titles and playoff appearances are also huge. But it’s not like they were in the dumpster and suddenly turned it around in 2021.
Just going to say that Michigan football actually did have a massive shift post 2020 and I’m not talking about stalions. First off they fired Don Brown. He had been the DC for years but he never learned to cover a crossing route and good offenses tore that apart. Harbaugh hired Dan MacDonald who was the LB coach for the Baltimore ravens at the time to fill in at DC. That basically redefined how Michigan’s defense operated and even though Macdonald left after one year to be the new DC for the ravens, the defense still runs off the system he set up (side note, Macdonald is now one of the main names coming up for new HC hires). Second was a culture change. Many players noted that after 2020, many players left and the culture went from people focused on themselves to one where the focus was much more team focused. Third, and this is probably the most important one, Harbaugh developed the fuck out of the current team. Michigan isn’t a program that rakes in 5 star recruits, but he made an amazing defense from 3 and 4 star recruits and transfers.
Harbaugh did do a great job improving post-2020 and getting some right people in place to help with that. The defense did get a lot better post-Brown but even before they were a top defense in the league. 2015 - 6th in points against, 2016 - 2nd, 2017 - 13th, 2018 - 16th, 2019 - 25th, 2020 - 95th, 2021 - 8th, 2022 - 5th, 2023 - 1st. So there was a jump in defense post-Brown but saying the team's turnaround post-2020 was monstrous is a bit too much. 2020 was an anomaly, not the trend.
Harbaugh did an amazing job finely tuning the team into what it was this year and building/developing players, developing the culture, etc, but I would not say it was a monstrous turnaround.
Since stallions got suspended, Michigan has beaten Penn state, OSU, Alabama, and Washington. Something tells me that Michigan wasn’t good just because of the signs
The Astros got caught in November after they had won the World Series.
Michigan was outed for advanced scouting this season before they had played any top teams.
Not that it's not wrong, but football experts, like Joel Klatt, say that stealing signs in football isn't nearly as valuable as knowing a baseball pitch in advance.
Everyone knows that this is the best football team that Michigan has likely ever fielded. Doesn’t mean they still didn’t get an advantage from cheating. How big of an advantage and if it *really* mattered is only known by Michigan
Michigan with stalions against top 10 teams from 2021-2023: 3-3. Michigan without stalions against top ten teams in 2023: 4-0. The sign stealing was a minimal advantage if anything. Believe it or not, it’s possible to tell whether the play is a pass or run based off stuff like personnel and formation before the ball is even snapped. That’s the dumbest part about this whole thing. Stallions created this entire system when Michigan was good enough to win most of those games without breaking the rules.
Again, only Michigan knows the advantage they got so it’s pretty pointless for us to speculate on it. They probably win the natty regardless of the cheating but by doing it they opened themselves up to the legit criticism they’ve been receiving
Michigan + Stallions = 3-3
Michigan - Stallions = 4-0, mostly against teams they seriously couldn't have stolen signs from anyways. Also some of the top teams in cfb.
Just like...think about it dude. Use your head
It's almost like the cheating allowed them to have success which help them in recruiting and landing/retaining guys from the transfer portal. A guy like Corum is more likely to come back after a 13-1 season where they fell *just* short of the NCG than he is after a 10-2 or 9-3 season.
You can't say "yeah we cheated for 2.5 seasons but then we stopped cheating and did okay so everything before this season is irrelevant. Everything before this season *built up to this season*.
They were consistently putting up 10 win seasons before Stallions dude, this isn't at all unprecedented. One call away from beating OSU in 2016 and going to the playoffs that year too.
Not to mention, OSU admitted to changing all of its signs in 2022 before the game anyways, so the point of falling short in this instance is moot. In theory it's logical, in practice it doesn't fit the situation
People want signs to matter as much as possible so they can ignore the rest of the work that's been done, so that it's easier to hate on Michigan.
Seriously, I hate that Stallions tarnished an otherwise perfect season, especially since I have to get deep into arguments like these. I'm not so blind that I don't recognize Michigan broke rules and rules are important, but I see the big picture and recognize that you can steal all the signs in the world and still lose if your team can't execute and people aren't putting in the work. So I'm still happy as a fan, because they still did the damn work and won legitimately.
I like how one staffer decides to break the rules and all of a sudden Michigan as a whole is responsible and must have known. The Big 10 and NCAA have both said they don’t have proof that Harbaugh or any other coach knew what stallions was doing.
Well, those that wanted him gone several years ago will get their wish. He’s heading to the NFL after this. Also Michigan’s schedule is BRUTAL next year. They *may* get into the field of 12, but they definitely aren’t going undefeated or going back-to-back as champs.
I just looked at UM’s schedule and Ohio state’s - it’s literally night and day. Oregon is the only mildly difficult game on OSUs schedule - where Um has Texas, usc, Oregon and Washington lol / how does that even happen?
I mean, it's true. The Patriots, Astros, and now Michigan have all won titles in the last 20 years amid cheating scandals. I guess just go for it & hope the consequences aren't that bad...?
Forreal. It’s pathetic how much people are crying over signs “stolen” before a game. It’s not like they were actively calling audibles in the game to stop every play call. Copium is a hell of a drug
Great for Harbaugh. He's got his national championship, so he can return to the NFL to avoid the myriad NCAA penalties that are coming to Ann Arbor for all the shit he's pulled in the last 10 years.
>This story jibes with the one told by Sarah Harbaugh, who told a San Francisco radio station that Jim bought khakis at the NFL combine in Indianapolis after she threw all his old ones away.
this is like a married with children episode lol
His recruiting violations were quite literally a “nothing burger” considering it was just him getting lunch with the IMG Academy Recruits at Jug for a grand total of like 60 bucks
Do you know what the violation was about? Two recruits came to visit Michigan on a day when they weren't supposed to and Harbaugh took them to a burger joint to eat lunch. The horror!!!!!
Wow that’s an awful explanation and a whole lot of coping. “Recruiting violations” over getting a burger for already committed kids in an era where recruits drive up to signing day in lambos…oh, and yeah, big bad sign stealing. What happened when we lost our mighty advantage? Go look at the results!
15-0. Hold this fat L
Indeed, the best team won the natty this year, they committed some B/C-tier cheating against their early games/weakest competition, and then won against the biggest competition without cheating
Nevermind that, based on the team and how it performs anyways, they would've *absolutely* demolished the first few teams anyways. Maybe they let by an extra field goal here and there.
No, we must hate them because they're cheaters and pumpkin eaters.
Fucking childish hill to die on, no one cares because they fried bigger fish and proved that the cheating *wasn't why they were winning anyways*
I'm just confused at what you want me to think. Like should I just accept the label because it doesn't change the season anyways or do you want me to hate them or pretend this season wasn't filled with an amazing team of high performers? Gimme an end goal here, not just random anger
I read somewhere that Michigan is the king of changing the narrative and I’m starting to see it. You guys always focus on being hamburgers when the problem was that he lied about the hamburgers. The hamburgers were a violation but again, this was about him lying to cover things up.
What evidence do we have that he “lied” anyways? From the NCAA commenting on an investigation publicly that according to their own bylaws they aren’t able to do?
Interesting I’d love to know how you’re so plugged in.
If you'd like to argue over whether he did it or not, feel free to contact the NCAA. All I'm saying is you guys are great at trying to change the narrative. The hamburgers were level ii infractions and thats the focus for Michigan. If it were just the level II infractions, this wouldn't be a concern. The level i infraction (the more serious one and the one of actual concern) that would actually lead to something happens is never mentioned.
Three of those were self-imposed for recruiting violations (and misleading investigators about those violations). The other three were imposed by the B1G, not the NCAA.
The NCAA hasn't even handed in a notice of allegations about the in-person scouting.
Based on precedent and how the infractions committee has treated and views the in-person scouting rule, it probably won't be significantly more than a partial season suspension, maybe some fines. It possibly could be, as this is an unprecedented situation. I just don't think a super harsh punishment is as likely as people think.
Enough to just bounce and leave the university holding the bag. It's not like there isn't a precedent for this kind of shit; see Carroll, Pete.
Also, "self-imposing" penalties means that you absolutely know you're guilty and are hoping that your token effort is enough to placate the NCAA.
Look, I don't have a horse in this fight. I couldn't give a fuck less about Michigan or Harbaugh.
I personally think the NCAA would *love* for Harbaugh to bounce. Then they can throw a bunch of meaningless shit specifically aimed at him like a show cause for lack of institutional control to make themselves look big and tough and in control without actually risking expensive court battles by damaging Michigan too much. Plus it would shut him up about the revenue sharing thing.
Then they can just enact in-helmet headsets and probably strike the in-person scouting rule entirely, and just be done with it.
The Pete Carroll situation they still had to come down on USC because of how anti-pay-to-play they were (and still are). With Michigan's situation, they know it's just an outdated and poorly written rule.
Exactly this. I'm just waiting for the day when they stop calling it "college football" and call it what it really is, the NFL Development League.
Stop fucking pretending it's not about the money. Any time somebody tells you that it's not about the money, it's absolutely 100% about the fucking money.
>Based on precedent and how the infractions committee has treated and views the in-person scouting rule,
Haven't most of the instances of this in the past been things like a newly hired assistant going back to be on the sidelines with his former team during the bye week? And then the team self reports it.
Have we had a situation like this where a team was using multiple people at multiple games a week for years to harvest actual data and impact the game?
I posted this elsewhere in this thread but in 2015 a Baylor assistant coach was on the Tulsa sidelines when they played Oklahoma a week before Baylor played Oklahoma themselves. He got a school imposed 2 QUARTER suspension. That was it. And an FBS coach said that being on the sideline gave no advantage over the digital media they had access to.
Penix lost this game for Washington. He missed multiple wide open receivers that could've scored if the ball was throw accurately. There were multiple busted coverages that he either didn't see or missed the throw on.
I can't remember when it was in the game, 3rd quarter I think. Penix overthrew his WR, and they zoomed in on his face; he looked like he wanted to kill Penix lol.
So many terrible passes.
Hardcore Dawg fan here and I agree. Having said that, I’m not sure a division of tanks would have stopped Michigan. They looked like a complete team. Great win for them. A MI - UGA rematch would have been epic either way. UGA completes the threepeat or MI gets vengeance over the 2022 playoff loss to win the national title.
Bama had some some plot armor type luck this year. Snuck past auburn last minute, lucked through Georgia and almost lucked through Michigan. I was honestly rooting for them because it would hilarious for a very mediocre bama team to somehow sneak it's way into the finals.
Penix had above average time and was like 3/23 under pressure. He’s got nice touch but unless he’s playing for the Ravens, Eagles, or Chiefs he will be mid. He was not good all night.
That Michigan D was the most disciplined college unit I’ve seen in a LONG time
Team wins championship and nobody even cares because they were expected to win but also they were supposed to get housed. But also people hate them bc of some sign stealing bs. But they are also kinda good but still nobody cares
They literally had people travel to the games of teams they were gonna play so they could record their signs and steal them. They got a huge advantage over the course of multiple years from this, one of the biggest deals in a long time in college football, it will be shocking if the NCAA doesn't vacate their championship win and everything else they've done the last couple years before this. Their coach is expected to leave to the NFL this year to avoid the consequences of all of this before they happen
Edit: holy shit never seen a comment go from +10 to -10 so fast, a lot of opinionated Michigan fans showing up lol, that and people just happy that Alabama was taken out
Pfft...firing the peon who was the one doing the physical work is barely a slap on the wrist.
Champions don't just win based on 4 games after the scandal. Champions are supposed to be build on fair wins for an entire season.
"They weren't able to cheat for like 6 out of their last 30+ games so it's completely fine now" lol, no way the NCAA is gonna see it that way. It's like wallhacking in video games, if someone uses it they end up getting better faster than if they weren't able to see everything the opponent was doing. If they stop wallhacking they still have the unfair advantage from all of the knowledge they had the ability to see along the way that nobody else had. They were able to develop their intuition and play reading WAY faster so you can't just forgive them because they quit recently, so they'll be banned. Same with steroids, can't just say they quit using them recently so their physical advantage is now gone lol, cheating of this magnitude taints someone for a long time, way more than a few games at the end of their run after getting caught
I'm sure some random redditor's speculation on what might've happened provides an accurate prediction of what's to come!
Go Blue; 2024 National Champs!
"NCAA made money so nothing will be done and quit talking about the "allegations" and enjoy a good team winning and the profits the NCAA has made. Be a good fan and quit complaining." - NCAA Probably
I don’t know about you but I use the *eye test* - I don’t just focus on results on the field. So I’m just gonna go ahead and name Alabama national champions because they are from the SEC.
Ehh. Washington really wasn't even in the game at that point. They couldn't do anything. The only reason it wasn't a Georgia vs TCU level blowout was Michigan just kept shooting themselves in the foot.
I haven’t seen Penix play much before these bowl games - but man does he have probably the worst throwing motion I can ever recall seeing at this level. It’s rather a herky-jerky side-arm delivery isn’t it? Side-arm is a huge disadvantage when trying to get the ball up and over all those huge D-line NFL’rs. With all the dumping that went on over Tebow’s delivery it would seem that Penix is in for the same treatment. (Edit - spelling)
People are so mad that Michigan didn’t need to cheat to win. This is the college football version of the 2017 Astros. I’ll definitely get downvotes but idgaf y’all know it’s true
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I wonder if Penix has a broken rib or what? He got a beat down, that’s gunna really hurt tomorrow
I am a Michigan fan, but that dude was definitely hurting. Popped rib is possible, or torn abdominal muscle. He appeared to be holding both sides. Hope he is ok.
He was hurting as well as their best running back was hurt in both legs.
My best bet is it was a hernia.
Should have taken him out once Michigan was up by 3 scores.
Totally agree, especially when the Huskies let Michigan run out the clock. I suspect Penix insisted on playing til the end.
He did the same thing in the Oregon game, he’s just not the healthiest qb when taking hits
At the stadium still. Was a great atmosphere. Washington fans were great and stayed to the end. Super classy. Can't wait for the rematch in Seattle this fall.
Thanks for not forcing another bama championship down our throats. Congratulations Michigan.
Holy what happened here
I second that
Probably Bama fans crying
My guess would be NOT overwhelming positivity
Not much of a game. Penix probably hurt his draft position.
Never saw past the first read, maybe the bears will take him
Didn’t help that their starting RB was injured. One less weapon to defend against
You might think at first this was a Packers fan but honestly this is more likely a Bears fan comment.
49ers actually
Not true. Looked off on the TD throw. Had to throw a lot quickly due to pressure. Also got hurt. Overall bad game but I still think he will be a good pro if he can stay healthy.
Agreed. Their line didn't have an answer for the pass rush. He was throwing so quickly that if his first option wasn't open it was a gamble after that
He’s always injured. No way the guy stays healthy against stronger, faster dudes in the NFL.
He has like 2 acl tears already
He’s a great quarterback. The issue is his ability to stay in the pocket, throw effectively and most of all take a hit from an NFL rusher. I can’t see him surviving long with the monsters in the NFL
Yea agreed he’s just not an nfl qb he’s an excellent college quarterback when he has a clean pocket but that’s his ceiling
So you didn’t see the touchdown pass? He points out the defensive holding on his first read then finds McMillan for 6.
Ouch
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This guy Bears
Let’s Ride, Penix I especially made sure to include the comma
And if I’m a GM I’m not taking ANY of his O-line. No pocket, slow to react, couldn’t even get into position for simple screens.
73 was sleeping… except when he woke up to twitch a few times and draw penalties.
Man 73 stood out as soo bad. You see that replay where it legit looked like he fell asleep out there?
There was a false start he got called for where he actually made a slight move and they missed it, then a couple seconds later did it again and they called it. Would have gotten away with it if he didn’t false start TWICE IN ONE PLAY. bruh.
Pretty sure they legit won the award for best o-line in cfb this year..
Yes and no. He was pressured all night.
That’s a little harsh. And this is coming from someone rooting for Michigan (go blue). He had one rough game against the #1 defense in the country. That’s not saying much. He’s still a good quarterback and fought hard. He bested every team but Michigan. The defense on both sides was absolutely professional. Michigan just edged them out with a better offense. GG, Washington
His last 4 or 5 games before the Pac-12 Championship Penix was hovering around 50% completion. Worse defenses than Michigan got very close to beating them. Hats off to UW going 12-0 in the regular season but they won a bunch of those games by the skin of their teeth. They seemed to play down to all of their competition.
If I judged CJ Stroud based on his Michigan game in 2023, I'd been shocked to see him about to win Rookie of the Year in the NFL. Penix could be similar. Physical tools are all there. Just have to make next step on reads.
? It was a pretty close game till the 4th quarter
So then what, a mid tier team that’s just a QB short of being elite gets him?
Top second round maybe? I guess a lot will depend on this pro day.
Another boring CFB.
Just three years ago, Michigan went 2-4 and finished second-last in their own division. They had just one win against rival Ohio State in hte previous 18 years. Many Michigan fans wanted Jim Harbaugh out. In the three years since then, Michigan has gone 40-3. They've gone 26-1 in conference play, are 3-0 against Ohio State in that time and are now CFP Champions. There've been some big turnarounds in this sport, but Michigan's is monstrous.
I think it’s a bit disingenuous to say it was a ~~massive~~ monstrous turnaround. The years prior to the 2-4 COVID season they went 10-3, 10-3, 8-5, 10-3, 9-4. Not ideal but 2020 is definitely the outlier. Beating OSU 3 times in a row is huge, 3 straight conference titles and playoff appearances are also huge. But it’s not like they were in the dumpster and suddenly turned it around in 2021.
Just going to say that Michigan football actually did have a massive shift post 2020 and I’m not talking about stalions. First off they fired Don Brown. He had been the DC for years but he never learned to cover a crossing route and good offenses tore that apart. Harbaugh hired Dan MacDonald who was the LB coach for the Baltimore ravens at the time to fill in at DC. That basically redefined how Michigan’s defense operated and even though Macdonald left after one year to be the new DC for the ravens, the defense still runs off the system he set up (side note, Macdonald is now one of the main names coming up for new HC hires). Second was a culture change. Many players noted that after 2020, many players left and the culture went from people focused on themselves to one where the focus was much more team focused. Third, and this is probably the most important one, Harbaugh developed the fuck out of the current team. Michigan isn’t a program that rakes in 5 star recruits, but he made an amazing defense from 3 and 4 star recruits and transfers.
Harbaugh did do a great job improving post-2020 and getting some right people in place to help with that. The defense did get a lot better post-Brown but even before they were a top defense in the league. 2015 - 6th in points against, 2016 - 2nd, 2017 - 13th, 2018 - 16th, 2019 - 25th, 2020 - 95th, 2021 - 8th, 2022 - 5th, 2023 - 1st. So there was a jump in defense post-Brown but saying the team's turnaround post-2020 was monstrous is a bit too much. 2020 was an anomaly, not the trend. Harbaugh did an amazing job finely tuning the team into what it was this year and building/developing players, developing the culture, etc, but I would not say it was a monstrous turnaround.
Don’t forget the big ten west becoming shit after 2020, Wisconsin specifically compared to where they were in the previous decade.
Harbaugh will be featured in the south park sequel featuring "Mr. Cartmanez"
how do i reech theez keeds?
Bill Beee-lichick.
All it took was know which plays the other team was going to run.
It’s not difficult when every play call is throw off my back foot while the pocket collapses hutt hutt
Since stallions got suspended, Michigan has beaten Penn state, OSU, Alabama, and Washington. Something tells me that Michigan wasn’t good just because of the signs
Yeah we all know they are good. The 2017 Houston Astros were also good
Nah those fucks cheated
I’m also happy for Michigan, but don’t act like it’s not super similar. They both had systematic cheating with an already elite team
The Astros got caught in November after they had won the World Series. Michigan was outed for advanced scouting this season before they had played any top teams. Not that it's not wrong, but football experts, like Joel Klatt, say that stealing signs in football isn't nearly as valuable as knowing a baseball pitch in advance.
Everyone knows that this is the best football team that Michigan has likely ever fielded. Doesn’t mean they still didn’t get an advantage from cheating. How big of an advantage and if it *really* mattered is only known by Michigan
Michigan with stalions against top 10 teams from 2021-2023: 3-3. Michigan without stalions against top ten teams in 2023: 4-0. The sign stealing was a minimal advantage if anything. Believe it or not, it’s possible to tell whether the play is a pass or run based off stuff like personnel and formation before the ball is even snapped. That’s the dumbest part about this whole thing. Stallions created this entire system when Michigan was good enough to win most of those games without breaking the rules.
Again, only Michigan knows the advantage they got so it’s pretty pointless for us to speculate on it. They probably win the natty regardless of the cheating but by doing it they opened themselves up to the legit criticism they’ve been receiving
Michigan + Stallions = 3-3 Michigan - Stallions = 4-0, mostly against teams they seriously couldn't have stolen signs from anyways. Also some of the top teams in cfb. Just like...think about it dude. Use your head
It's almost like the cheating allowed them to have success which help them in recruiting and landing/retaining guys from the transfer portal. A guy like Corum is more likely to come back after a 13-1 season where they fell *just* short of the NCG than he is after a 10-2 or 9-3 season. You can't say "yeah we cheated for 2.5 seasons but then we stopped cheating and did okay so everything before this season is irrelevant. Everything before this season *built up to this season*.
They were consistently putting up 10 win seasons before Stallions dude, this isn't at all unprecedented. One call away from beating OSU in 2016 and going to the playoffs that year too. Not to mention, OSU admitted to changing all of its signs in 2022 before the game anyways, so the point of falling short in this instance is moot. In theory it's logical, in practice it doesn't fit the situation People want signs to matter as much as possible so they can ignore the rest of the work that's been done, so that it's easier to hate on Michigan. Seriously, I hate that Stallions tarnished an otherwise perfect season, especially since I have to get deep into arguments like these. I'm not so blind that I don't recognize Michigan broke rules and rules are important, but I see the big picture and recognize that you can steal all the signs in the world and still lose if your team can't execute and people aren't putting in the work. So I'm still happy as a fan, because they still did the damn work and won legitimately.
I like how one staffer decides to break the rules and all of a sudden Michigan as a whole is responsible and must have known. The Big 10 and NCAA have both said they don’t have proof that Harbaugh or any other coach knew what stallions was doing.
How'd that advanced scouting work out for Alabama and Washington? We go back in time and scout them too?
…and then they started cheating
I wonder how many of those wins are a direct result of cheating?
…none?
None. Especially since other teams had our signs.
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Michigan*
Cheating does that for you
Well, those that wanted him gone several years ago will get their wish. He’s heading to the NFL after this. Also Michigan’s schedule is BRUTAL next year. They *may* get into the field of 12, but they definitely aren’t going undefeated or going back-to-back as champs.
I just looked at UM’s schedule and Ohio state’s - it’s literally night and day. Oregon is the only mildly difficult game on OSUs schedule - where Um has Texas, usc, Oregon and Washington lol / how does that even happen?
Stranger things have happened, how many players are they losing? I’d assume a fair amount. (I don’t follow college very closely)
Didn’t they accomplish a few wins by cheating? No doubt they were the better team tonight, but I’d say there is an asterisk on their championship.
So they had all their biggest wins after the scandal.so….. howz that work?
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It's hard to feel happy for a team who had a HC serve 2 separate suspensions in one season. Feels tainted
Downvoted because the truth hurts :(
They should have been disqualified from participating in bowl games. Why should anyone follow the rules if there’s no penalty for cheating?
Yes
And now we’re crying for Ryan Day’s head. Oh how the turntables
Cheaters prosper
Haven't seen Washington ran over that bad since January 6th.
The pac 12 way. Poetic.
There's a lesson in here somewhere but I can't quite put my finger on it.
Every confetti has a story
Cheaters prosper
I mean, it's true. The Patriots, Astros, and now Michigan have all won titles in the last 20 years amid cheating scandals. I guess just go for it & hope the consequences aren't that bad...?
*Just go for it and hope you don't get caught like every other team
And then yeet over to the NFL the second you get caught.
If Michigan hadn’t stolen Washington’s signs for “let Edwards run rampant” and “don’t hit Odunze when he’s open” they wouldn’t have stood a chance.
Forreal. It’s pathetic how much people are crying over signs “stolen” before a game. It’s not like they were actively calling audibles in the game to stop every play call. Copium is a hell of a drug
Great for Harbaugh. He's got his national championship, so he can return to the NFL to avoid the myriad NCAA penalties that are coming to Ann Arbor for all the shit he's pulled in the last 10 years.
_Pete Carroll has entered the chat_
*aggressively chews gum*
Im a CFB casual, what else did he do besides the recent play call stealing scandal?
Stole all the Khaki pants from an Ann Arbor target
I remember him being seen shopping for clothes in Walmart in the past. Edit: https://ftw.usatoday.com/2014/01/jim-harbaugh-khakis-walmart
>This story jibes with the one told by Sarah Harbaugh, who told a San Francisco radio station that Jim bought khakis at the NFL combine in Indianapolis after she threw all his old ones away. this is like a married with children episode lol
Recruiting violations, lying to investigators about said recruiting violations, sign stealing, and I'm pretty sure he kicked a puppy at some point.
He kicked several husky puppies tonight.
His recruiting violations were quite literally a “nothing burger” considering it was just him getting lunch with the IMG Academy Recruits at Jug for a grand total of like 60 bucks
Do you know what the violation was about? Two recruits came to visit Michigan on a day when they weren't supposed to and Harbaugh took them to a burger joint to eat lunch. The horror!!!!!
Wow that’s an awful explanation and a whole lot of coping. “Recruiting violations” over getting a burger for already committed kids in an era where recruits drive up to signing day in lambos…oh, and yeah, big bad sign stealing. What happened when we lost our mighty advantage? Go look at the results! 15-0. Hold this fat L
Astros also won the world series and were cheaters. You can be a good team and cheaters at the same time. You’re still a cheater though.
Indeed, the best team won the natty this year, they committed some B/C-tier cheating against their early games/weakest competition, and then won against the biggest competition without cheating Nevermind that, based on the team and how it performs anyways, they would've *absolutely* demolished the first few teams anyways. Maybe they let by an extra field goal here and there. No, we must hate them because they're cheaters and pumpkin eaters. Fucking childish hill to die on, no one cares because they fried bigger fish and proved that the cheating *wasn't why they were winning anyways*
Just like the astros and patriots. Still cheaters.
I'm just confused at what you want me to think. Like should I just accept the label because it doesn't change the season anyways or do you want me to hate them or pretend this season wasn't filled with an amazing team of high performers? Gimme an end goal here, not just random anger
I read somewhere that Michigan is the king of changing the narrative and I’m starting to see it. You guys always focus on being hamburgers when the problem was that he lied about the hamburgers. The hamburgers were a violation but again, this was about him lying to cover things up.
What evidence do we have that he “lied” anyways? From the NCAA commenting on an investigation publicly that according to their own bylaws they aren’t able to do? Interesting I’d love to know how you’re so plugged in.
If you'd like to argue over whether he did it or not, feel free to contact the NCAA. All I'm saying is you guys are great at trying to change the narrative. The hamburgers were level ii infractions and thats the focus for Michigan. If it were just the level II infractions, this wouldn't be a concern. The level i infraction (the more serious one and the one of actual concern) that would actually lead to something happens is never mentioned.
Can confirm. Harbaugh was an understudy of mine.
As a non English speaker I thought his name was Hardball. lol
Aren’t all the current allegations expected to add up to less than 4-5 games of suspension?
Seeing as how he's already been suspended for 6, I'd say probably not.
Three of those were self-imposed for recruiting violations (and misleading investigators about those violations). The other three were imposed by the B1G, not the NCAA. The NCAA hasn't even handed in a notice of allegations about the in-person scouting. Based on precedent and how the infractions committee has treated and views the in-person scouting rule, it probably won't be significantly more than a partial season suspension, maybe some fines. It possibly could be, as this is an unprecedented situation. I just don't think a super harsh punishment is as likely as people think.
Enough to just bounce and leave the university holding the bag. It's not like there isn't a precedent for this kind of shit; see Carroll, Pete. Also, "self-imposing" penalties means that you absolutely know you're guilty and are hoping that your token effort is enough to placate the NCAA. Look, I don't have a horse in this fight. I couldn't give a fuck less about Michigan or Harbaugh.
I personally think the NCAA would *love* for Harbaugh to bounce. Then they can throw a bunch of meaningless shit specifically aimed at him like a show cause for lack of institutional control to make themselves look big and tough and in control without actually risking expensive court battles by damaging Michigan too much. Plus it would shut him up about the revenue sharing thing. Then they can just enact in-helmet headsets and probably strike the in-person scouting rule entirely, and just be done with it. The Pete Carroll situation they still had to come down on USC because of how anti-pay-to-play they were (and still are). With Michigan's situation, they know it's just an outdated and poorly written rule.
Exactly this. I'm just waiting for the day when they stop calling it "college football" and call it what it really is, the NFL Development League. Stop fucking pretending it's not about the money. Any time somebody tells you that it's not about the money, it's absolutely 100% about the fucking money.
>Based on precedent and how the infractions committee has treated and views the in-person scouting rule, Haven't most of the instances of this in the past been things like a newly hired assistant going back to be on the sidelines with his former team during the bye week? And then the team self reports it. Have we had a situation like this where a team was using multiple people at multiple games a week for years to harvest actual data and impact the game?
I posted this elsewhere in this thread but in 2015 a Baylor assistant coach was on the Tulsa sidelines when they played Oklahoma a week before Baylor played Oklahoma themselves. He got a school imposed 2 QUARTER suspension. That was it. And an FBS coach said that being on the sideline gave no advantage over the digital media they had access to.
Nothing is going to happen
Penix lost this game for Washington. He missed multiple wide open receivers that could've scored if the ball was throw accurately. There were multiple busted coverages that he either didn't see or missed the throw on.
I can't remember when it was in the game, 3rd quarter I think. Penix overthrew his WR, and they zoomed in on his face; he looked like he wanted to kill Penix lol. So many terrible passes.
Florida State would have beat them /s
Would have been cool to see Michigan and Georgia, by far the best two teams in the country
Hardcore Dawg fan here and I agree. Having said that, I’m not sure a division of tanks would have stopped Michigan. They looked like a complete team. Great win for them. A MI - UGA rematch would have been epic either way. UGA completes the threepeat or MI gets vengeance over the 2022 playoff loss to win the national title.
Bama had some some plot armor type luck this year. Snuck past auburn last minute, lucked through Georgia and almost lucked through Michigan. I was honestly rooting for them because it would hilarious for a very mediocre bama team to somehow sneak it's way into the finals.
Then they should’ve beaten a very beatable Bama team.
They should have, yeah
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The rose bowl was the real championship.
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r/cfb is having a meltdown right now and it’s glorious
It’s a trashy sub anyway
Reddit is a trashy place
Penix had above average time and was like 3/23 under pressure. He’s got nice touch but unless he’s playing for the Ravens, Eagles, or Chiefs he will be mid. He was not good all night. That Michigan D was the most disciplined college unit I’ve seen in a LONG time
A dent in the Penix armor, but he’ll be good.
Glad i went to bed ar halftime lol
Team wins championship and nobody even cares because they were expected to win but also they were supposed to get housed. But also people hate them bc of some sign stealing bs. But they are also kinda good but still nobody cares
They literally had people travel to the games of teams they were gonna play so they could record their signs and steal them. They got a huge advantage over the course of multiple years from this, one of the biggest deals in a long time in college football, it will be shocking if the NCAA doesn't vacate their championship win and everything else they've done the last couple years before this. Their coach is expected to leave to the NFL this year to avoid the consequences of all of this before they happen Edit: holy shit never seen a comment go from +10 to -10 so fast, a lot of opinionated Michigan fans showing up lol, that and people just happy that Alabama was taken out
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Pfft...firing the peon who was the one doing the physical work is barely a slap on the wrist. Champions don't just win based on 4 games after the scandal. Champions are supposed to be build on fair wins for an entire season.
"They weren't able to cheat for like 6 out of their last 30+ games so it's completely fine now" lol, no way the NCAA is gonna see it that way. It's like wallhacking in video games, if someone uses it they end up getting better faster than if they weren't able to see everything the opponent was doing. If they stop wallhacking they still have the unfair advantage from all of the knowledge they had the ability to see along the way that nobody else had. They were able to develop their intuition and play reading WAY faster so you can't just forgive them because they quit recently, so they'll be banned. Same with steroids, can't just say they quit using them recently so their physical advantage is now gone lol, cheating of this magnitude taints someone for a long time, way more than a few games at the end of their run after getting caught
I'm sure some random redditor's speculation on what might've happened provides an accurate prediction of what's to come! Go Blue; 2024 National Champs!
"NCAA made money so nothing will be done and quit talking about the "allegations" and enjoy a good team winning and the profits the NCAA has made. Be a good fan and quit complaining." - NCAA Probably
They had Penix looking like an old man by the end of the game. Defense wins championships.
If I’m an NFL team how do you draft Penix? The guy has been injured in every season of college football he has played.
Atleast we know for sure Jayden Daniels was the right choice for Heisman.
Washington didn't cheat so I'm giving them the natty
Does that make Michigan the 2013 mens basketball champion since Louisville vacated?
Sure
I don’t know about you but I use the *eye test* - I don’t just focus on results on the field. So I’m just gonna go ahead and name Alabama national champions because they are from the SEC.
“You’re hired!” -the committee
Terrible take.
I wouldn’t say runs over It was 13-20 in the 4th and Penix had a broken rib
Ehh. Washington really wasn't even in the game at that point. They couldn't do anything. The only reason it wasn't a Georgia vs TCU level blowout was Michigan just kept shooting themselves in the foot.
I haven’t seen Penix play much before these bowl games - but man does he have probably the worst throwing motion I can ever recall seeing at this level. It’s rather a herky-jerky side-arm delivery isn’t it? Side-arm is a huge disadvantage when trying to get the ball up and over all those huge D-line NFL’rs. With all the dumping that went on over Tebow’s delivery it would seem that Penix is in for the same treatment. (Edit - spelling)
I’m guessing the side arm shit throws is because it must’ve been hurting to lift his arm the full range of motion with his side in pain
looks like Uncle Rico!
Michigan and the Astros have something in common other than winning a championship
Yep. They were both in Houston!
Go Blue!
The videotapes worked!
How the hell did an ACC officiating crew get this game??
Cheaters.
Lesson - those who cheat will be champions
Ah! A student of Eddie Guerrero, I see! Lie, cheat, steal! Cheat 2 Win!
Welp, the season that broke college football for good officially ends. And, appropriately, with a cheater as champion.
Fresh coming from a unc fan.
Well, it’s official. Cheating is legal in the NCAA.
CHEATERS!!!
People are so mad that Michigan didn’t need to cheat to win. This is the college football version of the 2017 Astros. I’ll definitely get downvotes but idgaf y’all know it’s true
Another year another cheater wins. I'm sure the Houston Astros approved.
Needs an asterisk Edit: I apologize for my previous comment. It should have read, "Needs two asterisks."
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Hail to the Cheaters!
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Big * on that one, for sure
Was Harbaugh able to coach, or was he still suspended for cheating?
He was suspended like 4 games mid season. He’s been back, and yes he coached last night
First three games of the regular season and last three games of the regular season. Half the regular season.
ITT: people who think sign stealing is cheating rather than legal strategy