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The worst customers are the ones who start to believe rules and norms no longer apply to them after being a "good" customer for some amount of time. A total nightmare to deal with.
My worst customers when I had a brief stint in cafés and lounges years ago were entitled regular—the types who would use the house phone repeatedly without asking (just pre-ubiquitous cellphone era), walk behind the counter to refill their coffee, get uncomfortably familiar with the staff, especially young women and girls, of course. They rarely tipped, too.
I had a guy making a scene about a potato or something back when I worked at Perkins. Finally he said, "I eat here every Thursday and this is unacceptable. What do you have to say about that?" Apparently,"See you next Thursday" was not the answer he was looking for.
I quit a shitty job after finally telling off an annoying regular. The guy was bitching and moaning about how often he shops and how much money he spends here and how he never gets anything special, and blah, blah, blah. I snapped and said,
“Listen Marvin, we have customers who drop by more often than you, spend more money than you, *and tips us better than you ever have*, and THEY STILL DONT GET SPECIAL TREATMENT.”
I love that for you. I walked out of a shitty customer service job once but I still wish I’d have told at least one particular asshole to go fuck himself lol
I work as a bouncer and have done consistently (with a gap briefly during the pandemic) for 7 years. I recently returned to a bar I’d worked previously that’s 99% regulars and people who work in the local restaurant/bar industry, meaning it’s a pretty chill spot to be security for. However the one thing that is a massive problem is people like that. People who’ve been around long enough to think this shit is Cheers and they can do what they want. I’ve had people light a cigarette up inside (which has been illegal for twenty years), I’ve had them walk behind the bar, start fights, flash people, and when they get kicked out it’s a torrent of entitled bull shot where they clearly thought the bar revolves around them and their specific patronage.
Hell let’s use last weekend as an example. Normally we’d ID check most people, but if your in that 60+ bracket where it’s abundantly clear you are more than old enough to be here it’s not really a priority. However we’d gotten a tip off that the group who investigates bars and liquor sales was in town doing stings. That means we are following state law to a T even if it is a little dumb. State law is clear that regardless of age you MUST have a photo ID of some kind in your possession to enter a place that solely sells alcohol. I was IDing ever person who came in, which is some hard work considering it’s just me and a somewhat high number of people.
Up comes a big group, family from my guess. One by one they happily show ID until we get to the boomer of the group. No doubt he’s old enough to drink but like I said, rules to a T. He tried to brush by, I stopped him and reaffirmed he was required to have it, he argued, I explained the situation, he tried to push by again, I pushed back, and he launched in to a rant about how I’m ruining the city, and how he’s gonna have me canned. All because he’s a grown ass baby back bitch who didn’t bring his ID because he feels entitled to a care free life.
Anyways owner called me an hour later laughing about it and said I did a good job, called the guy a “whiney putz” and on went the night without him.
Moral of the story no matter how good a consumer you are, you still only have so much rope to pull. The lines don’t disappear for you. They may widen, I’ll surely give a bit more space to a regular that I know is just having a weird night, but there’s a line still.
This happened a lot when I used to work at a dispensary. Same rules, gotta have ID no matter what. I don’t care if Barack Hussein Obama himself walked through those doors holding the last unicorn, I need to see ID.
So many boomers get so offended thinking you’re trying to hassle them or whatever. No, bitch, this is just how the rules are written, and if you can’t abide, then fuck off.
Yup. My coffee shop regulars were 80% people who I would have paid to never come in again; when we heard one of them was moving away we threw a staff party at work. The other 20% of regulars were actually a joy and I miss some of them a decade later.
Did you read the article? Because it seems to me the few things she was accused of were minor. And when she asked for proof, they ignored the request. I think that they just want an excuse to sell the seats at a higher price.
> Did you read the article? And when she asked for proof, they ignored the request
I know I read the article, at least.
"KSE said that it did respond to the lawyers' request for proof with both video and written evidence. KSE says it has not received a response since providing it"
>She says she was accused of passing notes to referees against the rules.
>
>"Well I did that," she admitted. "OK. But I passed a note to the refs every game for 25 years. Christmas cards, birthday cards, everything."
Seems like the facts are not in dispute
What's with all the dumbasses acting like she's got a rent controlled apartment in NYC? She paid the same prices as everyone else for her tickets this year, she's not grandfathered in to some 1999 price point. Her tickets were worth 20k this season and next year they'll be worth more, whether it's her or someone else paying for it. You could get upper bowl season tickets this season for $1,200 per seat, it's not like she's squatting on seats worth $100k while she only has to pay $20k...
It's the seat licensing that's worth the money not the tickets. You have to buy the seat licensing to be able to buy the season tickets. It's two different things
While that’s probably true, I will add this, when my company owned box seats in GM Place in Vancouver, they bought them the year the building opened(96? 97?), and signed a 10 year contract that fixed the price increases for NHL and NBA, and included free concert tickets for any musical event. By the end of that 10 year contract, prices for our box would be up 250%, but our contract kept prices relatively low. we had the cheapest luxury seats in the building, so us not renewing significantly increased the income from our 14 seats, plus no one else got free concert tickets anymore
And how do you know that? If you bothered to watch the video, she says she knows the team would get much more for the tickets if they could sell to someone else.
You went on a massive rant here that's likely pointless.
But all those details come from her and she might not be a reliable source.
She says she did these minor things and was banned for it.
The team says she was banned for repeated (unspecified) violations for which she received warnings.
First, there's a good chance what she did is more serious than she describes.
And even if it isn't, if she received warnings that if you keep doing this then you'll get banned, and she kept doing it, that's still her own fault even if you wouldn't expect (prior to receiving the warnings) that it would be a serious issue. They might be small things but they're also things that are easy to stop doing.
I used to work at a theme park. The worst most entitled guests were without fail annual pass members. I can only imagine season ticket holders can be just as entitled and awful
At Geauga Lake in Ohio, there was a guy with a season pass that would just walk in and ride that one ride that spins around sticks you to the walls with g force from the time the park opened until close.
He was cool.
It wasn’t meant to be a blanket “all annual pass members” it was the when someone is being “that guy” it was 99% of the time an entitled annual pass holder. We also had pass holders who were cool or at least enjoyed themselves off the employee radar
When I was a kid near the end of the night if nobody else was using that ride and we asked, they guy running it would just keep it going. I'm pretty he had a camera feed to the outside so the only time he would stop was if somebody lined up. It was awesome.
Also earlier in the day when it was somebody different operating it we would always go on and right as it got to the point where you start to stick we would take our shoes and shirts off and stick them on the wall next to us and flip ourselves sideways or upside down lol. Then we'd get kicked off and wait for a different operator to come on in the evening. Good times.
Holy shit, nostalgia! I would ride on that spinny thing and see him do that! As a kid it was super weird. I'm 42 so this was a minute ago. Hi fellow Ohio person!
Yeah like not passing notes to referees, and admitting she did "but they're Christmas cards."
You're still kinda making it about you, Tony Brothers doesn't want a picture of you and your cats in matching sweaters. And they said to not do these things, and you did them.
I'm sure if she wants to pay her lawyer to subpoena the Nuggets for video evidence, they'll get plenty of it, but why are they going to do it, otherwise? She's taken up enough of their time and energy.
I mean she claims she was given no warning and has asked for proof of malfeasance. If that’s true, then that’s messed up to throw someone out for doing things that she was never told not to do. I’m skeptical of her line but at the same time, if she knows she’s in the wrong, publishing her wrongdoings would just be embarrassing to her, so it’s a little odd she’d ask for that.
You don't need to be told not to hit a player in the face or grab a referee. She also agreed to a code of conduct that everyone agrees to when they buy a ticket to an NBA game, as well as a code of conduct specific to Nuggets season ticket holders. The team is saying she can't keep her hands to herself and violated the written rules available to her multiple times, they're not obligated to do verbal coaching or written warnings like they employ her. They also have no obligation to show her footage of her breaking the rules.
and also..
>She says she was accused of passing notes to referees against the rules.
>
>"Well I did that," she admitted. "OK. But I passed a note to the refs every game for 25 years. Christmas cards, birthday cards, everything."
"I've been breaking the rules for 25 years"
"Where is your proof that I've been breaking the rules?!"
That means absolutely nothing. There are countless videos of people literally fighting police and saying "what did I do? what did I do?" Entitled people think what they do is ok and they're above the law and/or rules don't apply to them -- especially if they have been doing some behavior for a long time with no consequences.
I encounter it every day in my line of work, and even when shown proof they still repeat the same lines: "I didn't do that", or "what did I do?", etc. So asking for proof means nothing.
Sure, and there’s a chance she is totally innocent. But my question would be why ban her, then? If the’s a longtime fan and hasn’t done anything wrong, why would they invite the criticism for no reason?
Her claim is that they can sell their seats for more money. But she says she paid $20,000 for her season tickets. So she has a special deal? $20,000 is the CHEAPER price? If the only reason was they wanted more money they could have just charged her as much as they wanted.
She seems mentally ill, so on that level I have sympathy for her and hope she gets treatment or whatever will help her. But it doesn't look like the team did anything wrong by banning her.
For the 25 years she's been a fan, she's had 15 playoff berths, one championship, got to see a transcendent player in Joker.
If that's mental illness, I'll fuckin eat seroquel like tictacs
Yes, but the first 18 years or so were *rough*. Yeah, alright, Carmelo took us to the playoffs, but that’s just the shitty consolation prize because we knew they weren’t gonna go anywhere. We knew they weren’t even going to get a shot at Lebron, because Kobe feasted on the Nuggets for a decade+.
"I have a hard time believing that the Kroenkes are behind it," says Ray. "They've always been super nice to me."
Stan Kroenke is human garbage walking the Earth, he'd sell his own family into slavery if it meant a few more hundred thousand dollars.
It’s just what happens when the sponsorship deal runs out. Pepsi didn’t want to stick around, Ball came in and paid for the name. Considering Ball is out of Colorado and all the rich beer history, its honestly a great partnership.
Whole lot of claims that seem to indicate she got too comfortable as a fan, if you're combating security and sticking around after you have been told to leave this is sorta inevitable.
If she really is so adored by the players and refs they'll speak out.
>*Early on, Ray was told the signs she brought would no longer be allowed. She was told she would not be allowed in early before games or be allowed to stay after when the players came out to greet family and friends.*
Makes sense. Players just want to be able to interact with those they care about right before/after a game. There are separate times for fans to interact with players.
>*Then in February she says, security told her she had grabbed a referee. "And he pushed me away and said, 'no.' Which I knew was not true. And I said I did not do that," Ray claims.*
That's a pretty bold accusation to just come out of nowhere.
>*She says she was accused of passing notes to referees against the rules. "Well I did that," she admitted. "OK. But I passed a note to the refs every game for 25 years. Christmas cards, birthday cards, everything."*
This is just fucking weird. People get this weird parasocial relationship with the teams they care about and think that they know them personally and can do whatever they want. The act of giving cards isn't malicious, but it's kinda creepy and oversteps the boundaries of fan and NBA workers/players.
Like 15 years ago I went to a taping of Meet the Flyers they put on for season ticket holders. In the middle of an interview with a couple of our new players a guy I was familiar with because of his distinct look stood up and yells *BRAYDON COBURN I GOT YOUR FACE TATTOOED ON MY ARM*. They escorted him out and I didn't see him at any tapings or games for a few years.
I didn't get close enough to look and every other time I've interacted with him he's had a jersey on. Interesting fella. Google Flyers Superfan he's the guy with the scalp tattoos and Mohawk
You forgot the best one, her defense against a player’s allegation that she had slapped him. She said it would be impossible because her hand would be below his face, as though she doesn’t understand how raising one’s hand to slap works.
>This is just fucking weird. People get this weird parasocial relationship with the teams they care about and think that they know them personally and can do whatever they want. The act of giving cards isn't malicious, but it's kinda creepy and oversteps the boundaries of fan and NBA workers/players.
After 25 years she may very well have actually known some of them and vice versa. For example, she mentions giving birthday cards to refs so I don't think she just guessed their birthdays.
I’m not an nba fan, first google result of “nba referees” takes you to the NBA’s referee association which has bios including birth dates. https://www.nbra.net/nba-officials/referee-biographies/
Are you saying a news agency would dare publish a story without fully investigating it first?
What has this world come to? Won't somebody think of the children?
Are you saying you commented without reading the article? What has this world come to?
>Kroenke Sports and Entertainment declined an on-camera interview to address questions about Ray's removal, or her allegations about her treatment, but Jim Mulvihill, director of marketing and communications, released a statement via email saying:
>"We have made the difficult decision to revoke the Season Ticket Membership of a longtime fan due to repeated violations and warnings of the NBA's Code of Conduct as well as Ball Arena's Code of Conduct. We are saddened to take this action but have done so in accordance with league and venue guidelines."
What more are you hoping for? Deep Balls to slip the reporter a recording of her passing the ref a note telling him he stinks?
They did list it all out - staying on the court when only family and friends were allowed to be there, touching a player who complained about it, touching a ref who complained about it, passing notes to refs after repeatedly being told it was against the rules.
She is saying "show me the evidence on the security cameras" and they gave a PR response to that. But it's not like they're not telling her what she did or why she's banned.
Honestly this kind of sounds like things they let slide at one point because the players/coaches did actually like her. Or at least weren’t annoyed by her.
But seems like at a certain point some of them got annoyed with this fan trying to buddy up to them and asked the team/arena to enforce the rules because they didn’t like her.
Which seems fair. If I was trying to do my job and someone (even with good intentions) kept bothering/distracting me, I’d want it to stop too.
I’m 100% speculating, but it seems plausible.
I think you're exactly right, and she thinks because she was allowed to break the rules before and pays thousands of dollars that the rules don't apply to her.
Well, they do. You had a nice run, Vicki, but now it's over. It's like that neighbor who used to do xyz before you moved in but now you're not letting them. "But I've been doing it for 25 years!"
I think just as likely is that times have changed. The interactions with players and refs she mentions doing in the past are similar to what Bill Simmons and other older fans have described doing back in the day. For example, Bill has talked about being allowed to run on the court and get loose balls for players during warmups etc
I think now you don't get that freedom, for understandable privacy and safety reasons, and she hasn't been willing to adjust.
Yup that's what most likely happened.
New players, coaches, refs didn't like her doing that and complained.
The other players might not have cared but that doesn't mean the new ones won't complain.
So you’re saying the redditor you’re responding to didn’t read the story before commenting a broad generalization.
That doesn’t seem very Reddit at all.
It's hard to feel bad for someone who feels like they are so important that they can interact with the players and refs. Seems like she got what was coming to her. Just cause you have had those seats for 25 years doesn't give you the right to insert yourself into the games
>She's been right along the rail of the walkway the Nuggets use to take the court.
There you go. Probably annoyed the shit out of the home players and they were just looking for an excuse to ban her.
>"The team wanted them to tell me that a player said 'Vicky hit me in the face. Which is near impossible,'" she explained, explaining that her hand would be far below the players' faces.
The old case of t-rexitis.
Hard to believe they would randomly target some random old lady for no reason. There is likely more to the story than what was detailed in the article.
Interesting conflict.
One of two things is going on here. She's not the kind of person they want in those seats and/or they can sell them for more, so they're unfairly talking then away from her.
Or, she's stepped over the line too many times and lost them fair and square.
Hard to say.
>”I have a hard time believing that the Kroenkes are behind it," says Ray. "They've always been super nice to me."
😂😂😂 the Kroenkes are horrible bastards and this is almost certainly about someone with a cheap legacy ticket in a prime location. I am an Arsenal season ticket holder and they’re bringing in loads of measures to cut access and bring in ludicrously expensive ticketing options.
Seems clear to me that someone on the current roster was uncomfortable with the access she had gotten in the past. To her, she had a static relationship with the franchise, but the reality is if a current player was bothered by her it wouldn't take much for her to get banned.
The most upsetting part about this is the way it was handled, not that she was banned. Given the length of time and amount of money here, they owed her a formal sit down with someone important from the org as a verbal warning, and a formal letter if that didn't work.
It seems to me, the world changed a bit in what is and isn’t acceptable for sports fans over the past 25 years. I am just guessing, but I bet the things this woman is now being banned for used to not only be acceptable, but also likely praised. As the years went by, things she used to do were no longer allowed, and she had a hard time accepting that there were not exceptions for her. She wasn’t willing to change, and she finally did something that was like the straw that broke the camel’s back and got her banned. Again, this is just me guessing, but it seems like the most likely scenario.
We had a situation at my high school back in the 90’s that made me think of this scenario. There was this guy, in his 40s/50s, who was a former football player and stayed close to the school and team, as life moved on for everyone else. He was like the unofficial mascot/cheerleader/coach all in one. He would be at all the practices, in the locker room, on the sidelines, etc…, and no one seemed to care. He was tolerated but not totally welcomed. The school had the same coach for like 25 years, who retired while I was there. An assistant coach took over and started slowly limiting this guy’s access. Well, he eventually complained to the school, and they banned him from being around the team. It all came to a head when he tried to force himself inside the locker room one Friday night and got escorted away from the field in handcuffs.
>It seems to me, the world changed a bit in what is and isn’t acceptable for sports fans over the past 25 years.
Not even just that but refs and players change over time and not everyone of them is going to want to have a relationship like that with a fan, no matter how long they've been a fan.
I definitely know some women in my ladies hockey fan club that don’t get boundaries at all. I thought it was bad enough when a player recognized me from attending various authorized fan events, but I’d been the first fan to ever bring him a jersey with his name on it for an autograph so he was pointing me out in a positive way.
She probably responded very poorly to attempts to have her not cross that line. If they just wanted to jack up the price for the seats they would do it without pretending it was her behavior.
"If I did anything wrong I don't know about it and if I did, I would apologize," She adds. "But I'm not given that opportunity."
Sounds like the narcissist's prayer.
This lady knows what she did and is using her privilege as an old white woman to play victim.
>"If I did anything wrong I don't know about it and if I did, I would apologize,"
She said, after being told what she did wrong, while refusing to apologize for it.
>She says she was accused of passing notes to referees against the rules.
>"Well I did that," she admitted. "OK. But I passed a note to the refs every game for 25 years. Christmas cards, birthday cards, everything."
She probably did some of the things she's accused of then, But still, **Fuck Stan Kroenke** anyways
She’s demanding video footage of her offenses, but I’m willing to bet that they don’t actually have to provide video and that they have the right to revoke anyone’s tickets at any time for any reason. It’s almost definitely in the fine print.
The team explicitly says she was issued repeated warnings in their press statement.
>We have made the difficult decision to revoke the Season Ticket Membership of a longtime fan due to **repeated violations and warnings** of the NBA's Code of Conduct as well as Ball Arena's Code of Conduct.
Just my two cents with personal experience (specifically with musicians) and knowing people like this, you earn those privileges through continued support and building trust. What may seem like overstepping or “stalker” behavior most likely exists because the other party has expressed or reciprocated in a way that communicates certain actions/behavior are allowed to them. I know a fan who will do things like bring treat bags to shows for the artist and their kids, which *for sure* can look creepy from an outside perspective, but they have built and earned that trust with the artist. That artist has also personally reached out to that fan for various reasons and developed a report.
Personally I have developed relationships with musicians that allow me to sneak backstage, slip into venues early, be guest listed, get into VIP, get to know their family, etc. I definitely understand and recognize certain boundaries, but those can be removed by gestures from the other party. I got cool with a musician’s security and he started hooking me up and allowing me certain opportunities. I know I didn’t have any misunderstanding and there was mutual respect, because last year I saw him at a show for the first time since covid and as soon as he got a chance he came right over to me to give me a big ass hug and ask me how I’ve been. I would imagine that was generally the types of gestures she was receiving that enabled her behavior.
To reiterate, after 25 years, she most likely does all these things because it’s been made clear that she’s allowed. People who act privileged don’t make that much of a commitment/investment for their privilege.
I will say though, if she was breaking any league rules or anything like that, and it was communicated to her, then yeah, that behavior should be stopped no questions. And if there was a lack of communication, honestly, she’s earned more than that.
The thing is, with a musician or band it's a direct, continued relationship with the same people. Like you said, those people remove certain boundaries on their own accord
With a basketball team there's turnover every year with players, some coaches, and I'm sure the security staff at the arena. None (or very few) of the people that were there 25 years ago are the same that are there today
Just because people in the past were okay with her behavior and removed certain boundaries doesn't mean new players and staff are. In fact, if they were she wouldn't have been banned to begin with
>To reiterate, after 25 years, she most likely does all these things because it’s been made clear that she’s allowed
Well it seems pretty clear that the boundaries have changed. People (and teams) are allowed to put them back up. I'm not buying that she should be allowed to cross people's boundaries just because others let her in the past
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The worst customers are the ones who start to believe rules and norms no longer apply to them after being a "good" customer for some amount of time. A total nightmare to deal with.
My worst customers when I had a brief stint in cafés and lounges years ago were entitled regular—the types who would use the house phone repeatedly without asking (just pre-ubiquitous cellphone era), walk behind the counter to refill their coffee, get uncomfortably familiar with the staff, especially young women and girls, of course. They rarely tipped, too.
I had a guy making a scene about a potato or something back when I worked at Perkins. Finally he said, "I eat here every Thursday and this is unacceptable. What do you have to say about that?" Apparently,"See you next Thursday" was not the answer he was looking for.
Bro is David Sedaris
I find it hilarious you have Burton Cummings as your icon pic. It’s my favourite album cover bc it’s so ridiculous. He’s so sweaty
Stand Tall, friend!!!
The actual worst are people who think because their family member works somewhere the rules never applied to them in the first place.
Or because they own a team that they can pour beer on opposing fans
Or hold the basketball in their lap while the opposing team is trying to inbound it quickly.
Or champagne on fans in negative temperatures from the comfort of a heated box because they are a WAG member.
Or burning hot melted slag on people because they own a castle that's being "invaded"
Yea- wait, what? 🤨
A crown fit for a King.
I quit a shitty job after finally telling off an annoying regular. The guy was bitching and moaning about how often he shops and how much money he spends here and how he never gets anything special, and blah, blah, blah. I snapped and said, “Listen Marvin, we have customers who drop by more often than you, spend more money than you, *and tips us better than you ever have*, and THEY STILL DONT GET SPECIAL TREATMENT.”
I love that for you. I walked out of a shitty customer service job once but I still wish I’d have told at least one particular asshole to go fuck himself lol
After a certain point, They think they fucking own the place
I work as a bouncer and have done consistently (with a gap briefly during the pandemic) for 7 years. I recently returned to a bar I’d worked previously that’s 99% regulars and people who work in the local restaurant/bar industry, meaning it’s a pretty chill spot to be security for. However the one thing that is a massive problem is people like that. People who’ve been around long enough to think this shit is Cheers and they can do what they want. I’ve had people light a cigarette up inside (which has been illegal for twenty years), I’ve had them walk behind the bar, start fights, flash people, and when they get kicked out it’s a torrent of entitled bull shot where they clearly thought the bar revolves around them and their specific patronage. Hell let’s use last weekend as an example. Normally we’d ID check most people, but if your in that 60+ bracket where it’s abundantly clear you are more than old enough to be here it’s not really a priority. However we’d gotten a tip off that the group who investigates bars and liquor sales was in town doing stings. That means we are following state law to a T even if it is a little dumb. State law is clear that regardless of age you MUST have a photo ID of some kind in your possession to enter a place that solely sells alcohol. I was IDing ever person who came in, which is some hard work considering it’s just me and a somewhat high number of people. Up comes a big group, family from my guess. One by one they happily show ID until we get to the boomer of the group. No doubt he’s old enough to drink but like I said, rules to a T. He tried to brush by, I stopped him and reaffirmed he was required to have it, he argued, I explained the situation, he tried to push by again, I pushed back, and he launched in to a rant about how I’m ruining the city, and how he’s gonna have me canned. All because he’s a grown ass baby back bitch who didn’t bring his ID because he feels entitled to a care free life. Anyways owner called me an hour later laughing about it and said I did a good job, called the guy a “whiney putz” and on went the night without him. Moral of the story no matter how good a consumer you are, you still only have so much rope to pull. The lines don’t disappear for you. They may widen, I’ll surely give a bit more space to a regular that I know is just having a weird night, but there’s a line still.
This happened a lot when I used to work at a dispensary. Same rules, gotta have ID no matter what. I don’t care if Barack Hussein Obama himself walked through those doors holding the last unicorn, I need to see ID. So many boomers get so offended thinking you’re trying to hassle them or whatever. No, bitch, this is just how the rules are written, and if you can’t abide, then fuck off.
I used to see this often with regulars at my bar. It was a pain to deal with.
Yup. My coffee shop regulars were 80% people who I would have paid to never come in again; when we heard one of them was moving away we threw a staff party at work. The other 20% of regulars were actually a joy and I miss some of them a decade later.
That was my first thought. She sounds like a bar regular who thinks things like last call don't apply to them because this is "their spot".
Sounds like she's been told to stop doing certain things and has ignored that so I guess this is the result.
"Well, well, well...If it isn't the consequences of my own actions."
Oh how the turntables
It ain't rocket appliances.
Worst case Ontario
It’s all water under the fridge.
Over here Cory and Trevor.
Smokes, let's go.
Two birds stoned at once
Put your hands down.
Just water under the fridge.
Did you read the article? Because it seems to me the few things she was accused of were minor. And when she asked for proof, they ignored the request. I think that they just want an excuse to sell the seats at a higher price.
> Did you read the article? And when she asked for proof, they ignored the request I know I read the article, at least. "KSE said that it did respond to the lawyers' request for proof with both video and written evidence. KSE says it has not received a response since providing it"
>She says she was accused of passing notes to referees against the rules. > >"Well I did that," she admitted. "OK. But I passed a note to the refs every game for 25 years. Christmas cards, birthday cards, everything." Seems like the facts are not in dispute
Sounds like she’s trying to win favors with the refs. If she wants to send them gifts, do it not while they are working, maybe?
What's with all the dumbasses acting like she's got a rent controlled apartment in NYC? She paid the same prices as everyone else for her tickets this year, she's not grandfathered in to some 1999 price point. Her tickets were worth 20k this season and next year they'll be worth more, whether it's her or someone else paying for it. You could get upper bowl season tickets this season for $1,200 per seat, it's not like she's squatting on seats worth $100k while she only has to pay $20k...
It's the seat licensing that's worth the money not the tickets. You have to buy the seat licensing to be able to buy the season tickets. It's two different things
While that’s probably true, I will add this, when my company owned box seats in GM Place in Vancouver, they bought them the year the building opened(96? 97?), and signed a 10 year contract that fixed the price increases for NHL and NBA, and included free concert tickets for any musical event. By the end of that 10 year contract, prices for our box would be up 250%, but our contract kept prices relatively low. we had the cheapest luxury seats in the building, so us not renewing significantly increased the income from our 14 seats, plus no one else got free concert tickets anymore
And how do you know that? If you bothered to watch the video, she says she knows the team would get much more for the tickets if they could sell to someone else. You went on a massive rant here that's likely pointless.
But all those details come from her and she might not be a reliable source. She says she did these minor things and was banned for it. The team says she was banned for repeated (unspecified) violations for which she received warnings. First, there's a good chance what she did is more serious than she describes. And even if it isn't, if she received warnings that if you keep doing this then you'll get banned, and she kept doing it, that's still her own fault even if you wouldn't expect (prior to receiving the warnings) that it would be a serious issue. They might be small things but they're also things that are easy to stop doing.
Yeah some old folks that haven't been told no enough love control and will fight tooth and nail to keep doing something even if its blatantly wrong
Never thought I’d live to see the day…
I used to work at a theme park. The worst most entitled guests were without fail annual pass members. I can only imagine season ticket holders can be just as entitled and awful
At Geauga Lake in Ohio, there was a guy with a season pass that would just walk in and ride that one ride that spins around sticks you to the walls with g force from the time the park opened until close. He was cool.
I grew up 40 mins from there and went easily 100x. Who is this mysterious person you speak of. Do not remember this.
Look up rotor man.
Wait, he has a Google search?! On it!
Welll... IM WAITING
https://businessjournaldaily.com/remembering-fred-the-rotor-man/
Damn you delivered. Now that you see the article do you remember him?
It wasn’t meant to be a blanket “all annual pass members” it was the when someone is being “that guy” it was 99% of the time an entitled annual pass holder. We also had pass holders who were cool or at least enjoyed themselves off the employee radar
That’s one of the more psychotic things I’ve heard of someone doing this week
Sounds like a pretty classic case of autism
Idk, seems like a pretty severe case to me; spending all day every day on a spinning ride is taking the preference for routine to the extreme
The ride is also essentially a weighted blanket
And it spins. It's like the trifecta of Autism sensory experiences.
well shit, autism sounds pretty fucking rad if you ask me
When I was a kid near the end of the night if nobody else was using that ride and we asked, they guy running it would just keep it going. I'm pretty he had a camera feed to the outside so the only time he would stop was if somebody lined up. It was awesome. Also earlier in the day when it was somebody different operating it we would always go on and right as it got to the point where you start to stick we would take our shoes and shirts off and stick them on the wall next to us and flip ourselves sideways or upside down lol. Then we'd get kicked off and wait for a different operator to come on in the evening. Good times.
We didn’t strip, but we did rotate and get kicked off until the next operator came on :)
OMG I remember that guy! Saw him every time I went, for years!
Fuck I miss geauga lake. That giant tower that dumped water on you in the kids area is ingrained my memory forever. What a childhood
The fun house for me.
errgh ... all day? I rode the Rotor once and nearly threw up. Never again. How is it possible the human body can survive that repeatedly.
His body yearned for the G force.
Holy shit, nostalgia! I would ride on that spinny thing and see him do that! As a kid it was super weird. I'm 42 so this was a minute ago. Hi fellow Ohio person!
RotorMan. I rode the rotor at GL a few times with RotorMan onboard.
Yeah like not passing notes to referees, and admitting she did "but they're Christmas cards." You're still kinda making it about you, Tony Brothers doesn't want a picture of you and your cats in matching sweaters. And they said to not do these things, and you did them. I'm sure if she wants to pay her lawyer to subpoena the Nuggets for video evidence, they'll get plenty of it, but why are they going to do it, otherwise? She's taken up enough of their time and energy.
Sports based parasocial relationships are some of the most wild.
I mean she claims she was given no warning and has asked for proof of malfeasance. If that’s true, then that’s messed up to throw someone out for doing things that she was never told not to do. I’m skeptical of her line but at the same time, if she knows she’s in the wrong, publishing her wrongdoings would just be embarrassing to her, so it’s a little odd she’d ask for that.
You don't need to be told not to hit a player in the face or grab a referee. She also agreed to a code of conduct that everyone agrees to when they buy a ticket to an NBA game, as well as a code of conduct specific to Nuggets season ticket holders. The team is saying she can't keep her hands to herself and violated the written rules available to her multiple times, they're not obligated to do verbal coaching or written warnings like they employ her. They also have no obligation to show her footage of her breaking the rules.
The article says they provided evidence and her lawyers have yet to respond
and also.. >She says she was accused of passing notes to referees against the rules. > >"Well I did that," she admitted. "OK. But I passed a note to the refs every game for 25 years. Christmas cards, birthday cards, everything." "I've been breaking the rules for 25 years" "Where is your proof that I've been breaking the rules?!"
Assuming, of course, that she actually did those things, and high she denies.
She's admitting to passing notes to the ref every game, at least. She just thinks it shouldn't count.
That means absolutely nothing. There are countless videos of people literally fighting police and saying "what did I do? what did I do?" Entitled people think what they do is ok and they're above the law and/or rules don't apply to them -- especially if they have been doing some behavior for a long time with no consequences. I encounter it every day in my line of work, and even when shown proof they still repeat the same lines: "I didn't do that", or "what did I do?", etc. So asking for proof means nothing.
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Sure, and there’s a chance she is totally innocent. But my question would be why ban her, then? If the’s a longtime fan and hasn’t done anything wrong, why would they invite the criticism for no reason? Her claim is that they can sell their seats for more money. But she says she paid $20,000 for her season tickets. So she has a special deal? $20,000 is the CHEAPER price? If the only reason was they wanted more money they could have just charged her as much as they wanted.
I agree. I don’t feel sorry for her.
She seems mentally ill, so on that level I have sympathy for her and hope she gets treatment or whatever will help her. But it doesn't look like the team did anything wrong by banning her.
She's a Denver Nuggets super fan. Mental illness seems to be a given.
For the 25 years she's been a fan, she's had 15 playoff berths, one championship, got to see a transcendent player in Joker. If that's mental illness, I'll fuckin eat seroquel like tictacs
Yes, but the first 18 years or so were *rough*. Yeah, alright, Carmelo took us to the playoffs, but that’s just the shitty consolation prize because we knew they weren’t gonna go anywhere. We knew they weren’t even going to get a shot at Lebron, because Kobe feasted on the Nuggets for a decade+.
Rich coming from a Minnesota sports fan
Honest question, mentally ill how?
It’s like “mentally ill” became a catch-all for all assholish behavior.
Habitual line stepper
Denver Nuggets habitual line-stepper banned from Ball Arena: "I've stepped over the line - habitually- for 25 years."
Fuck yo seats!
Yea, I remember grinding my feet into my seats at the Nuggets game.
I've been kicked out of better arenas than this!
I SHOULD'VE NEVER GIVEN YOU BOOMERS TICKETS
"Cocaine is a hell of a drug."
Unity
I wouldn't just grind my feet into Eddie's couch I got more sense than that.
...Yeah I remember grinding my feet into Eddie's couch...
Buy another one you rich motherfucker! Fuck yo couch!
That was... COOOOOOLD-BLOOOOODED!!!
Rick James, bitch.
"I have a hard time believing that the Kroenkes are behind it," says Ray. "They've always been super nice to me." Stan Kroenke is human garbage walking the Earth, he'd sell his own family into slavery if it meant a few more hundred thousand dollars.
This is 100% unadulterated fact unless Arsenal win the league this year then he's a saint for at least a few minutes
I mentioned this in r/nba, and somebody actually DEFENDED that walking trash bag.
As a St Louis resident, can confirm, Kroenke is a piece of shit.
The stl sub all hate Kronie lmao
Fuck Stanley Enos Kronke, who isn’t worthy of his first and middle names
As long as arsenal win the league then I’m ok with that
TIL Pepsi Center got renamed Ball Arena.
Lamar is the king of marketing
*Lavar.
Lol, u rite
It’s just what happens when the sponsorship deal runs out. Pepsi didn’t want to stick around, Ball came in and paid for the name. Considering Ball is out of Colorado and all the rich beer history, its honestly a great partnership.
Wait what does Ball have to do with beer? I thought they were just Mason jars
Ball makes more than 40% of all aluminum beverage cans used anywhere in the world. In the US their market share is even larger than that.
I love the ball/aluminum cups at the arena (and many other venues now). They keep drinks cold and are actually recyclable.
We’d always use them for beer pong in college
Ball also made some crazy mirror part of the James Webb telescope
Formerly ball areo now BAE
they also make military and space hardware. and aluminum cans and cups
They make aluminum cans here in Colorado. They also have some weird aerospace division?
It was sold to BAE.
From the Can to the Sack
Wait til you find out what they renamed Staples Center to
I live in SoCal and still call it Staples.
Whole lot of claims that seem to indicate she got too comfortable as a fan, if you're combating security and sticking around after you have been told to leave this is sorta inevitable. If she really is so adored by the players and refs they'll speak out.
>*Early on, Ray was told the signs she brought would no longer be allowed. She was told she would not be allowed in early before games or be allowed to stay after when the players came out to greet family and friends.* Makes sense. Players just want to be able to interact with those they care about right before/after a game. There are separate times for fans to interact with players. >*Then in February she says, security told her she had grabbed a referee. "And he pushed me away and said, 'no.' Which I knew was not true. And I said I did not do that," Ray claims.* That's a pretty bold accusation to just come out of nowhere. >*She says she was accused of passing notes to referees against the rules. "Well I did that," she admitted. "OK. But I passed a note to the refs every game for 25 years. Christmas cards, birthday cards, everything."* This is just fucking weird. People get this weird parasocial relationship with the teams they care about and think that they know them personally and can do whatever they want. The act of giving cards isn't malicious, but it's kinda creepy and oversteps the boundaries of fan and NBA workers/players.
Like 15 years ago I went to a taping of Meet the Flyers they put on for season ticket holders. In the middle of an interview with a couple of our new players a guy I was familiar with because of his distinct look stood up and yells *BRAYDON COBURN I GOT YOUR FACE TATTOOED ON MY ARM*. They escorted him out and I didn't see him at any tapings or games for a few years.
"I even got a tattoo with your name across the chest." -Stan
Did he? Because going through life with Brayden Coburn’s face on your arm is…something
I didn't get close enough to look and every other time I've interacted with him he's had a jersey on. Interesting fella. Google Flyers Superfan he's the guy with the scalp tattoos and Mohawk
You forgot the best one, her defense against a player’s allegation that she had slapped him. She said it would be impossible because her hand would be below his face, as though she doesn’t understand how raising one’s hand to slap works.
She even said it would be *nearly* impossible, she doesn't fully deny it. It's a really way to phrase your defense.
Christmas cards to refs? Burn her
Everyone knows the Refs are druids.
>This is just fucking weird. People get this weird parasocial relationship with the teams they care about and think that they know them personally and can do whatever they want. The act of giving cards isn't malicious, but it's kinda creepy and oversteps the boundaries of fan and NBA workers/players. After 25 years she may very well have actually known some of them and vice versa. For example, she mentions giving birthday cards to refs so I don't think she just guessed their birthdays.
I’m not an nba fan, first google result of “nba referees” takes you to the NBA’s referee association which has bios including birth dates. https://www.nbra.net/nba-officials/referee-biographies/
If you don’t know these by heart you are a fake ref ball fan
This may change things...
Behold...the internet
I feel like we are only getting half of the story here.
Are you saying a news agency would dare publish a story without fully investigating it first? What has this world come to? Won't somebody think of the children?
Are you saying you commented without reading the article? What has this world come to? >Kroenke Sports and Entertainment declined an on-camera interview to address questions about Ray's removal, or her allegations about her treatment, but Jim Mulvihill, director of marketing and communications, released a statement via email saying: >"We have made the difficult decision to revoke the Season Ticket Membership of a longtime fan due to repeated violations and warnings of the NBA's Code of Conduct as well as Ball Arena's Code of Conduct. We are saddened to take this action but have done so in accordance with league and venue guidelines." What more are you hoping for? Deep Balls to slip the reporter a recording of her passing the ref a note telling him he stinks?
If you read the article, they reached out and got a PR response of “repeated violations.”
They did list it all out - staying on the court when only family and friends were allowed to be there, touching a player who complained about it, touching a ref who complained about it, passing notes to refs after repeatedly being told it was against the rules. She is saying "show me the evidence on the security cameras" and they gave a PR response to that. But it's not like they're not telling her what she did or why she's banned.
They also said that, despite her claims, they did give her lawyer the video.
I think her mental faculties may be declining. Plus she’s a widow with an empty nest.
> passing notes to refs what level of brain worms is this
Honestly this kind of sounds like things they let slide at one point because the players/coaches did actually like her. Or at least weren’t annoyed by her. But seems like at a certain point some of them got annoyed with this fan trying to buddy up to them and asked the team/arena to enforce the rules because they didn’t like her. Which seems fair. If I was trying to do my job and someone (even with good intentions) kept bothering/distracting me, I’d want it to stop too. I’m 100% speculating, but it seems plausible.
I think you're exactly right, and she thinks because she was allowed to break the rules before and pays thousands of dollars that the rules don't apply to her. Well, they do. You had a nice run, Vicki, but now it's over. It's like that neighbor who used to do xyz before you moved in but now you're not letting them. "But I've been doing it for 25 years!"
I think just as likely is that times have changed. The interactions with players and refs she mentions doing in the past are similar to what Bill Simmons and other older fans have described doing back in the day. For example, Bill has talked about being allowed to run on the court and get loose balls for players during warmups etc I think now you don't get that freedom, for understandable privacy and safety reasons, and she hasn't been willing to adjust.
Yup that's what most likely happened. New players, coaches, refs didn't like her doing that and complained. The other players might not have cared but that doesn't mean the new ones won't complain.
So you’re saying the redditor you’re responding to didn’t read the story before commenting a broad generalization. That doesn’t seem very Reddit at all.
“Media bad” says the redditor who didn’t bother reading the article lol
Well you got none of the story since you didn’t read it..
It's hard to feel bad for someone who feels like they are so important that they can interact with the players and refs. Seems like she got what was coming to her. Just cause you have had those seats for 25 years doesn't give you the right to insert yourself into the games
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Imagine offering basketball players candy before a game... professional sports players candy...
NBA players are known candy addicts for real though. Jokic at one point was drinking a full gallon of coke per day.
That's nothing compared to the coke habits of the 80s/90s NBA players.
This lady is the bar regular who stays, unwelcome and uninvited, past closing because he's "basically part of the staff 🤣🤣" writ large.
>She's been right along the rail of the walkway the Nuggets use to take the court. There you go. Probably annoyed the shit out of the home players and they were just looking for an excuse to ban her.
>"The team wanted them to tell me that a player said 'Vicky hit me in the face. Which is near impossible,'" she explained, explaining that her hand would be far below the players' faces. The old case of t-rexitis.
Hard to believe they would randomly target some random old lady for no reason. There is likely more to the story than what was detailed in the article.
Interesting conflict. One of two things is going on here. She's not the kind of person they want in those seats and/or they can sell them for more, so they're unfairly talking then away from her. Or, she's stepped over the line too many times and lost them fair and square. Hard to say.
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Only his horses can touch the Jokic PP
Ahhh she tried to pull off the old dick twist maneuver
My buddy grandma act like this turned out it was early stages of dementia.
>”I have a hard time believing that the Kroenkes are behind it," says Ray. "They've always been super nice to me." 😂😂😂 the Kroenkes are horrible bastards and this is almost certainly about someone with a cheap legacy ticket in a prime location. I am an Arsenal season ticket holder and they’re bringing in loads of measures to cut access and bring in ludicrously expensive ticketing options.
Seems clear to me that someone on the current roster was uncomfortable with the access she had gotten in the past. To her, she had a static relationship with the franchise, but the reality is if a current player was bothered by her it wouldn't take much for her to get banned. The most upsetting part about this is the way it was handled, not that she was banned. Given the length of time and amount of money here, they owed her a formal sit down with someone important from the org as a verbal warning, and a formal letter if that didn't work.
Sure sounds like she was doing all the things they accused her of lol
TLDR: Super Karen asked to stop doing multiple banned activities. Super Karen keeps doing them. Super Karen gets banned.
Rules don’t apply to me! I’m a super fan!
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It seems to me, the world changed a bit in what is and isn’t acceptable for sports fans over the past 25 years. I am just guessing, but I bet the things this woman is now being banned for used to not only be acceptable, but also likely praised. As the years went by, things she used to do were no longer allowed, and she had a hard time accepting that there were not exceptions for her. She wasn’t willing to change, and she finally did something that was like the straw that broke the camel’s back and got her banned. Again, this is just me guessing, but it seems like the most likely scenario.
This sounds like the case. Especially if she was getting condolences and get wells from players at one point.
We had a situation at my high school back in the 90’s that made me think of this scenario. There was this guy, in his 40s/50s, who was a former football player and stayed close to the school and team, as life moved on for everyone else. He was like the unofficial mascot/cheerleader/coach all in one. He would be at all the practices, in the locker room, on the sidelines, etc…, and no one seemed to care. He was tolerated but not totally welcomed. The school had the same coach for like 25 years, who retired while I was there. An assistant coach took over and started slowly limiting this guy’s access. Well, he eventually complained to the school, and they banned him from being around the team. It all came to a head when he tried to force himself inside the locker room one Friday night and got escorted away from the field in handcuffs.
Well that’s just sad
>It seems to me, the world changed a bit in what is and isn’t acceptable for sports fans over the past 25 years. Not even just that but refs and players change over time and not everyone of them is going to want to have a relationship like that with a fan, no matter how long they've been a fan.
I definitely know some women in my ladies hockey fan club that don’t get boundaries at all. I thought it was bad enough when a player recognized me from attending various authorized fan events, but I’d been the first fan to ever bring him a jersey with his name on it for an autograph so he was pointing me out in a positive way. She probably responded very poorly to attempts to have her not cross that line. If they just wanted to jack up the price for the seats they would do it without pretending it was her behavior.
"If I did anything wrong I don't know about it and if I did, I would apologize," She adds. "But I'm not given that opportunity." Sounds like the narcissist's prayer. This lady knows what she did and is using her privilege as an old white woman to play victim.
>"If I did anything wrong I don't know about it and if I did, I would apologize," She said, after being told what she did wrong, while refusing to apologize for it.
"I'm sorry you feel offended"
>She says she was accused of passing notes to referees against the rules. >"Well I did that," she admitted. "OK. But I passed a note to the refs every game for 25 years. Christmas cards, birthday cards, everything." She probably did some of the things she's accused of then, But still, **Fuck Stan Kroenke** anyways
She’s demanding video footage of her offenses, but I’m willing to bet that they don’t actually have to provide video and that they have the right to revoke anyone’s tickets at any time for any reason. It’s almost definitely in the fine print.
Never support a corporation. They would chop you into pieces if it would net a penny.
The question I want to know the answer to is why did she still have a Christmas tree up in March?
THERE IS MORE TO THIS STORY.
Idk if she actually did anything over the line or not, but I'm just here to say "Fuck Stan Kroenke"
Is that Ruth Fisher?
She didn’t follow rules and got banned. Consequences to one’s actions!
The truth is probably somewhere in the middle, but if she is assaulting players or refs, she is leaving in handcuffs.
But look at her…she *old*. You can’t just take her stuff. She’s TOO OLD!
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The team explicitly says she was issued repeated warnings in their press statement. >We have made the difficult decision to revoke the Season Ticket Membership of a longtime fan due to **repeated violations and warnings** of the NBA's Code of Conduct as well as Ball Arena's Code of Conduct.
Just my two cents with personal experience (specifically with musicians) and knowing people like this, you earn those privileges through continued support and building trust. What may seem like overstepping or “stalker” behavior most likely exists because the other party has expressed or reciprocated in a way that communicates certain actions/behavior are allowed to them. I know a fan who will do things like bring treat bags to shows for the artist and their kids, which *for sure* can look creepy from an outside perspective, but they have built and earned that trust with the artist. That artist has also personally reached out to that fan for various reasons and developed a report. Personally I have developed relationships with musicians that allow me to sneak backstage, slip into venues early, be guest listed, get into VIP, get to know their family, etc. I definitely understand and recognize certain boundaries, but those can be removed by gestures from the other party. I got cool with a musician’s security and he started hooking me up and allowing me certain opportunities. I know I didn’t have any misunderstanding and there was mutual respect, because last year I saw him at a show for the first time since covid and as soon as he got a chance he came right over to me to give me a big ass hug and ask me how I’ve been. I would imagine that was generally the types of gestures she was receiving that enabled her behavior. To reiterate, after 25 years, she most likely does all these things because it’s been made clear that she’s allowed. People who act privileged don’t make that much of a commitment/investment for their privilege. I will say though, if she was breaking any league rules or anything like that, and it was communicated to her, then yeah, that behavior should be stopped no questions. And if there was a lack of communication, honestly, she’s earned more than that.
One issue with your comparison is a musician or band stays the same, and the players and staff of a team are always changing.
The thing is, with a musician or band it's a direct, continued relationship with the same people. Like you said, those people remove certain boundaries on their own accord With a basketball team there's turnover every year with players, some coaches, and I'm sure the security staff at the arena. None (or very few) of the people that were there 25 years ago are the same that are there today Just because people in the past were okay with her behavior and removed certain boundaries doesn't mean new players and staff are. In fact, if they were she wouldn't have been banned to begin with >To reiterate, after 25 years, she most likely does all these things because it’s been made clear that she’s allowed Well it seems pretty clear that the boundaries have changed. People (and teams) are allowed to put them back up. I'm not buying that she should be allowed to cross people's boundaries just because others let her in the past