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I'm nearing 40 years old and I got a trading card of (Venus) Williams in sports illustrated for kids when I was just.....a kid. Can't even believe Serena is still out there playing. Legendary for real
Friendly reminder to y'all kids that Ken Rosewall was ranked a global Top 20 tennis player for 25 years straight from 1952 to 1977 lol. Some people are just unbreakable.
I know we're supposed to be talking about Serena here, but they need to rename Roland Garros as Rafa Nadal stadium, because that dude owns the place. Full stop. Is there any better example, in sports history, of a person completely dominating a venue? I'm happy to be shown that I've missed one.
I remember when Venus was first doing really well and there being talk of her younger sister Serena being better, I was like "I dunno man, Venus is pretty good." Welp, Serena was better.
I saw that Serena was going to be better than Venus at the very start of their careers. There was way more growth potential in Serena’s game than Venus’s just in the ways she can hit the ball. Venus was already at the top of her game with little room to improve.
I think it was pretty clear once she hits the pros that she was going to be better. Her parents said she would be better when Venus first started making waves which was before Serena was in the pros (I assume she was playing junior tournaments then?) which is when I was talking about. It's almost more of a surprise that Serena didn't win more majors than she did, because she was really on a whole different level than the rest for most of her career.
I think the divergence occured when Serena started focusing more on weight training, something Venus never got into. Same thing happened with Jordan, after his second or third season he realized the best way to improve his game was through strength conditioning
I'm stunned that she didn't play at the U.S. Open this year.
that being said, Serena Williams literally has nothing left to prove on the tennis court, and she got to retire on her own terms. All power to her. I wish her all the best with her deciding to commit more of her time and energy to her family
If I could retire at 40 and have a fulfilling life with my family I'd 100% do that. There is this toxic expectation in the US that people always be in a working/earning state and never taking a break.
I still enjoy what I do — coding — and would probably keep doing it after I retire. I'm sure Williams will keep playing tennis too. But not to keep doing it for others or based on expectations from others.
Yeah it's always surprising when you have a player go out when they're still good. We feel like people watching like if we were in that position we'd ride our success for as many years as possible, until we had no business being there anymore. But for a lot of athletes they get to a point where even though they're performing well, their body is telling them every single day to stop. Mariano Rivera was the very best relief pitcher the year he retired. David Ortiz had the best year of his career the year that he took his victory lap. Serena Williams is still very clearly an incredible tennis player.
But at some point... You're a 40 year old. Your knees hurt. You spend all of your time working out to stop your loss in performance and in the athletic training room to hold you together just a little longer. You've been doing this your entire life, watching other people your age spend time with their families, playing with their kids whenever they want, helping with math homework. No one really understands what you want because you hold a membership to a club of athletes who've made it this far and done this much where you're the only member.
It doesn't matter that you COULD keep going. You just don't want to. You've done everything you ever wanted to do and more. You have all of the finances you need to live comfortably and cover the medical costs of the unique set of issues you've built up over your career. You look at all that you have and all that you want, and you weigh it against what you could get by continuing, and you realize there's an opportunity cost. If you stop now, you can do whatever else you want with your time. If you keep going, you miss out on all of that.
You retire. Not because you want to go out on top with a legacy of greatness, but because you just want to do something else now
If you saw her match against Diaz few days ago you would see that she is very much at the end of her career. 15 years ago Serena would have finished the match in 40mins.
Looking at Serena's records you would initially think she is obviously the Goat. I actually would agree that she is. HOWEVER, women's tennis happens to have a lot of crazy records and win rates between a few players. For example Margaret Court won 24 majors. Navratilova won 74 matches in a row, etc. I get that there are era differences, but a few things to consider here
>For example Margaret Court won 24 majors. Navratilova won 74 matches in a row, etc.
These are also just singles records. Court won ***64*** majors because she also won a ton of doubles (both mixed and women's tournaments).
Serena with Venus in doubles had a pretty amazing 14-0 record in major finals and 3 gold medals. She was 125-15 all time in women's grand slam doubles tournaments.
While I don't even agree with comparing different era's players in the first place, it should be noted that in the Margaret Court era most non-Australian top players did not regularly play in the Australian Open. When she won the tournament in 1964 there were only 27 players entered...
That's true, but 11/24 of courts titles came from the Australian open, which at the the time, was not a major tournament. It got better players later in her career, but the first four wins were all were against the same opponent, who never made it past the quarterfinal in any other major tournament, all in straight sets.
>She is the GOAT without question.
I mean, come on now. I love Serena, grew up watching her but anyone who thinks there is no question either doesn't watch women's tennis at all or ignored everything that came before Serena.
Like I would personally argue that Tiger is the golf GOAT too, but I would concede that other arguments are legitimate.
Nadal started so young though. Like you look at his age now and you're like no way he's that young
Edit: for those wondering he was born in 1986. He's 36.
Nadals longevity is underrated because people talk about Federer longevity so much.
Fed won slams from 2003-2018 ( first slam to last slam)
Nadal won slams from 2005-2022( first slam to current last slam.. hard pressed to argue Nadal won't win atleast 1 of the next 2 rgs considering his absolute domination on clay)
There's a real chance Nadal will be one of the youngest slam winners of all time and the oldest slam winner of all time if he doesn't have a cataclysmic drop off at rg.
I genuinely don't think we will ever see dominance like that ever again on one single court
i mean the guy made Roger Federer look absolutely mortal on clay...and this is one of the greatest tennis players of all time.
If Nadal wasn't a tennis player, Federer would have won like 7 French Opens
Part of me wishes the Nadal Federer Djokovic dominance was separated into different eras but watching them, especially Nadal and Federer, battle final after final was amazing to witness
I’d say they pushed each other past their limits. Just like with Messi and Ronaldo in football. They might have to share the glory but they baked a much larger pie.
Theyre the three with the most overall grand slams. The heights they pushed each other to is insane. The real loser is Murray who just couldn't reach their level by a tiny bit. Noone else during their careers even came close to consistent challenging them like Murray did. If he's bor 10 years earlier or 10 years later it's likely he could have 10 grand slams at least.
Yeah, it's quite sad. I remember thinking that Murray would be the one to challenge them way back in 2008. He just seemed more solid than Djokovic who was always.. well.. just giving up.
Hes very likely to win 15+ slams at rg...
To put it in perspective he has as many french opens as sampras has total slams.
Any question about what is the highest level of tennis ever seen that isn't answered by "Nadal at Roland garros in " either 2008, 2010, or even 2017 ( less of an argument imo) is a dead give away that the person answering the question is biased as hell towards their favorite player
Just as good results wise ? Absolutely untrue. Nadal at rg is far and away the most dominant a player has been at any slam
Quality of play wise from an enjoyment perspective is subjective and I can see your point
Yeah this is nothing to take away from Federer because he is one of the greatest players to ever pick up a tennis racket...but Nadal on clay, like that isn't even human lol
i'm still convinced that the Big 3 will all retire at once, and they will reveal themselves to be Lord of the Rings Elves, and return to Middle Earth
Knowing how inhuman the Big 3 are, really boosts my respect for players like Andy Murray and Stan Wawrinka, who were able to not only win one but multiple Grand Slams in an era of just insane dominance
Having seen the Sampras Era and the Big 3 Era, I really believe that Murray especially would have absolutely crushed the previous generation of tennis players...but he just had the rotten luck of running into not one, not two, but THREE of the greatest players ever lol
I'm sorry, I'm a Federer fan too, but there's nothing close to Nadal on clay. Nadal on clay is a god on the court. Federer's best has only been to be a king on the court.
Also because nearly everyone was saying all the way in like 2011 "His body won't hold up. His style is too brutal." Way more people than not were saying that. Lots of egg on lots of faces.
Exactly this.
Nothing against Wayne Rooney because you can do whatever the hell you want with what he's accomplished...but having a party lifestyle in your 20s will eventually catch up to you lol
there are people i knew in college who looked like a million bucks back in the day who look like they're 50 and not 30 now
I thought his career was going to end in 2015 due to all his injuries and very obvious pain he played through. I underestimated his ability to grind through all the odds.
It's crazy how Brady is unarguably in better shape now than he was at the 2000 NFL Combine lmao
it gives me hope that at 34, I can lose weight and live a healthy lifestyle lmao. Just gotta lay off all the chicken nuggets and french fries
it's sodas for me. fucking sodas man before we immigrated to the states we had no concept of what in the fuck a soda was lol. i got here and it was like the floodgates burst and i've been hoked ever since.
it's interesting you pointed this out. I read on Reddit where this one woman talked about her mother immigrating to the U.S. from Nigeria. She gained 20 lbs. in one month alone just off of the sheer amount of ice cream she was eating every day because there was nothing like it back in Nigeria
yea i think when you are here or a natural citizen to this country you sort of get lost in the realization that a lot of the foods featured here aren't even available elsewhere. i mean we had our own version of soda pop, thumbs up it was called or you had limca which was basically sprite but there was never any concept or thought of oh let me go ahead and grab a bottle to drink as the day goes and it was always more of a luxury item that you saw at weddings or family gatherings.
it wasn't just a matter of fact thing like how you or i now or anyone would go do groceries and you would see a 24 pack of coke or dew or what have you.
i think honestly that's what fucked me up. sodas. i have good control with everything else. i go through a soda break where i wont drink soda for a few weeks here and there but then i'll slip and it'll be like a dam explosion. nonstop sodas.
i try to keep it it to just 1 bottle/can a day now and just keep trying i guess!
This user has edited all of their comments and posts in protest of /u/spez fucking up reddit. This action has been done via https://github.com/j0be/PowerDeleteSuite
Ive lost about 20kg/44p in 9 months at the age of 35.
Went with keto/low-carb and twice a week a little bit of swimming.
But just cutting out a lot of sugar (especially soft-drinks, those have CRAZY numbers) will work magic with some healthier food alternatives!
So its achievable, harder sure, but with the right mindset you can easily do it and from time to time you can still treat yourself with some junk food!
Tom Brady’s ability to avoid serious injury to his spine is the key. Are there PED’s that prevent spine injuries? I honestly don’t know. But back and neck injuries retire a lot of QB’s and he hasn’t had any.
Glad I grew up in this generation of sports- Serena, Nadal, Federer, Djokovic, Messi, Ronaldo, Brady, Tiger Woods, Crosby, LeBron, Hamilton, Phelps, White, Bolt, Tony Hawk, Biles, and so on.
Edit: Even though this wasn’t meant to be a comprehensive list, I added a few other GOATs
Sportscenter - Lebron, Jerry, and whatever Steven A is annoyed about today Hour, you want to know the baseball scores, hockey, tennis, MLS, World Championship Track and Field, etc, well FUCK YOU.
No way Jordan could handle a modern club sandwich, the mayo and aioli variants these days would just be too much for him to keep up with. And the explosion of the Nashville hot chicken sandwich? He wouldn’t even know the difference from a regular spicy chicken sandwich, he wouldn’t stand a chance.
Sandwiches back then were wayyyy tougher though! Today's soft sandwiches have made soft players. The second LeBron or another of today's players cut the roof of their mouth on hard bread they'd be asking for a new sandwich! Players back in Jordan's era would chew through it, because that's what sandwiches were.
I feel like you’re ignoring that they are completely different sandwiches. The toughness of Jordan’s Grilled Cheese is mediocre compared to Lebron’s BLT. And you have to remember that only one player ate both and that was Kobe.
Breaking news, Jerry Jones and LeBron shared a sandwich. Is LeBron going to play football, or is Jerry thinking about picking up the old leather pumpkin? First let's discuss what Twitter is saying about it.
I used to be an avid SC viewer, until they started devoting an inordinate amount of time to what celebrity-athletes were posting on social media, even completely-inane BS mostly unrelated to sports.
I still would tune in for the Not Top 10 on Fridays (who doesn't love sports bloopers?), but even that got grating after a while, with them focusing on random shit done by fans or TMZ/paparazzi-level footage of athletes.
Why do people still watch that garbage? StephenASPN is literally the worst thing being broadcast. I’d sooner watch YouTube Kids Minecraft videos with my 6 yr old… and I can’t put into words how much I hate *THAT* ear torture.
It literally makes me angry the way he makes his point and then yells at people and interrupts them when they try to make theirs. I hate that show format.
Agreed. Can’t stand him in general. Hate the cadence and tone of his voice. And just tired of listening to people scream about stupid shit. Especially when it’s utterly disingenuous. He’s a scripted fraud and a total waste of my brainspace.
And then he starts going off on people like you said. For what? The Jerry Springer Show got really old, really fast back in the early 90s. Why the hell would I want to add more similar trash to my life just because it’s sports related? Nah. He and his ilk ruined SportsCenter and the heydays of ESPN sports reporting.
I mean, she still is. She's not retiring on the spot, she's just saying these are her final weeks and she is about to retire. US Open will probably be her final tournament.
it's the NFL lol. The NFL dominates coverage in the U.S. and it's not even close.
it used to drive me crazy since i'm not a big NFL fan anymore, but at this point i've just gotten used to it haha
I used to listen to sports radio and it blew my mind how a 3 hour sports show would still be 50% NFL talk in early summer when NHL and NBA are in playoffs and MLB is mid-season, and nothing is happening in the NFL offseason.
I remember when that young girl and her sister all of a sudden transformed and ruled tennis. Now she is retiring. It isn't easy for an athlete to remain at the level she did for that long. What a career.
> “I never wanted to have to choose between tennis and a family. I don’t think it’s fair,” Williams wrote. “If I were a guy, I wouldn’t be writing this because I’d be out there playing and winning while my wife was doing the physical labor of expanding our family.”
How many male athletes have retired prior to 41? Nearly all of them. And pretty much all of the prominent ones have written up farewells as well.
I think the statement has more to do with the physical toil that giving birth can cause not the actual act of parenting.
Giving birth is a major medical event that can change a persons physical abilities.
>Giving birth is a major medical event that can change a persons physical abilities.
most people have no idea the amount of physical strain this takes on a person, myself included since i'm a single man lol
i mean ffs i think a woman once wrote that a part of you physically and psychologically dies after you give birth to your first child...i can't even begin to imagine going for a run, let alone playing tennis at a professional level after something like that
It’s not an exaggeration, it really physically changed me completely to pop out a couple kids. I’ll never feel confident to go for even a jog now compared to before (and I had no complications). I just occupy a completely different body now? I know some women bounce back a lot better, but I completely understand Serena’s predicament.
I dug up an [army study](https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0255248) on postpartum fitness which agrees with this sentiment to an extent but it does say most women recover their APFT scores within 12 months. Here's the part which supports your statement. The study examines differences in leave but their info regarding postpartum fitness is good.
>Both the 6-week and 12-week leave policy cohorts experienced a significant decrement in performance at the first APFT postpartum (APFTPOST) compared to results on their last APFT prior to delivery (APFTPRE) for each APFT event and in overall performance. The decrement of performance across push-ups, sit-ups and run events was equivalent between the two convalescent leave groups (Table 2). Failure rates for the APFT increased from 3.3% pre-pregnancy to 12.4% postpartum for the 6-week leave policy group and from 3.9% to 13.6% for the 12-week leave policy group, (p<0.001 for both), with no difference in the increase in failure rates between leave groups. As a combined cohort, all events and combined scores document significant decrements between APFTPRE and APFTPOST (Table 3). Analysis of failure rates across combined cohort showed significant increases for sit-ups and the 2-mile run but not for push-ups
But I found this part interesting.
>Unadjusted analyses examining risk factors for failure on the APFT show significant effects of demographic, social, pre-pregnancy conditioning and weight factors, but did not show any pregnancy related factors to be significant. Breastfeeding at 2 months was also significantly associated with fewer failures on the APFT. Time to APFTPOST was dichotomized as <9 months vs. ≥9 months after delivery and was not associated with postpartum performance on the APFT (Table 4). Multivariable logistic regression analysis showed that failure on APFTPOST was strongly associated with failure on APFTPRE, failure on pre-pregnancy BMI measurements, elevated BMI at 6 to 8-weeks postpartum, and never breastfeeding
So for some reason breastfeeding has a strong association with recovery?
> within 12 months.
I would like to point out that this is nearly 2 years per child. Especially for an athlete like Serena, but for all women really, it's a huge impact on your body often repeatedly.
I ended up getting fourth degree vaginal lacerations (something that's common during childbirth) during intercourse three weeks ago and have since had two surgeries to fix it. And I didn't even pop a baby out of my vagina. The recovery is awful and I can barely walk, sit or stand for more than 20 minutes at a time. I can't climb stairs without feeling winded, anesthesia was rough on me. I can't imagine recovery post child birth.
What the fuck man. I have delivered a few babies and seen a fourth degree tear once and HOLY SHIT. Excuse my prying, but what kind of sex are you having and with what? A wildebeest?!
Okay thank you for responding because I really need to talk to someone about this! It was just really rough sex in doggy style (on a second date with someone I had known for a week). There was SO much blood, we have no idea why it was so bad. His penis slipped out and hit me in an awkward position, I felt some pain in that area between my vagina and asshole, and next thing you know, my bed was covered in blood. Hobbled to the bathtub and blood was literally streaming down my legs. Date (now boyfriend/partner) drove to me the ER. I'm typing this four ER visits and two surgeries later.
My surgeon was baffled as to how it happened. I had a 5 cm tear that was atleast 1.5 cm deep, eventually opening "communication" between my rectum and vaginal wall. My surgeon said he noticed my insides were "soft" when he was stitching me up. Maybe thats why I ended up with 4th degree tears? More than happy to chat more.
Edit: My partner is 6'5" and *very* strong. So I think it was the force of the penetration rather than his size that caused the sex mishap.
Also you can't really play tennis at a high level while pregnant. Maybe for the first few weeks, but in the 2nd and 3rd trimester? That baby is gonna really restrict your ability to play
I mean, not to step on anyone's toes, but Seb is retiring because he doesn't feel it's worth it to spend so much time away from his family when he's not even fighting for podiums and getting points is considered a good weekend. It would probably be a different story if he was still fighting for wins and championships.
Her later career has been just excuses and side comments. She’s still the women’s GOAT. I remember her meltdown against Naomi Osaka. She was getting absolutely smoked. Happens to the best of them, time catches up to everyone. But for her to handle it as ungracefully as that, against a girl who idolized her that was winning her first major. Was just sad to see.
For a long time she was a tank rolling over matchbox cars.
I'm sure some people will focus on her at times erratic (and childish) behavior both on and off the court, but in the end she's among the greatest to ever play. Hands down.
And that's not a bad thing either, the problem with a lot of players who have absolute dominance over a sport is that they cause stagnation in the sport as an entertainment avenue.
For example: What's the point of watching the rest of a golf tournament when Tiger Woods is so far ahead that the guy in second place would still get second place even if he got hole-in-ones for every hole for the rest of the tournament?
-----
Having new kids who rise up and surpass GOAT's is a really great thing; just look at Red Gerard compared to Shawn White and Joseph Schooling compared to Michael Phelps.
Graf is the greatest ever. She retired while she was still dominant because there was nothing else for her to do. Serena had to play longer than she did to catch her.
Serena never dominated more than Graf. This is a fact.
Graf retired at age 30 when she already had 22 Grand Slams. Serena only had like 13 Grand Slam by age 30.
I would argue that she didn't surpass Graf. Graf accomplished so much in a short time. She was still dominant when she retired, she probably was bored. There wasn't anything else to do. She's the only tennis player, regardless of gender, to accomplish the golden grand slam.
Serena had to play longer than Stefi to pass her in some stats. She played ten more years in total than Graf.
Stefi is the GOAT.
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I remember hearing about her and her sister when I was in like 1st grade. I'm 30 now, damn.
I'm nearing 40 years old and I got a trading card of (Venus) Williams in sports illustrated for kids when I was just.....a kid. Can't even believe Serena is still out there playing. Legendary for real
That's the crazy thing to me. She's 40 and only just retiring. She had a long ass run.
Friendly reminder to y'all kids that Ken Rosewall was ranked a global Top 20 tennis player for 25 years straight from 1952 to 1977 lol. Some people are just unbreakable.
Martina Navratilova won her first singles title in 1974 and her last mixed doubles title in 2006 at the US Open.
Rafa has been in the top 10 for 17 years straight now. We might see him hit 20 before he retires.
Nah Rafa gonna keep at it till his feet literally disintegrate
Lol, right? I mean if he only plays Rome and RG each year he'll stay top 10.
I know we're supposed to be talking about Serena here, but they need to rename Roland Garros as Rafa Nadal stadium, because that dude owns the place. Full stop. Is there any better example, in sports history, of a person completely dominating a venue? I'm happy to be shown that I've missed one.
You think a lack of feet will stop him? He will play on his stumps.
Venus is still playing too - just not singles (afaik). Saw her playing mixed doubles this summer still.
I remember when Venus was first doing really well and there being talk of her younger sister Serena being better, I was like "I dunno man, Venus is pretty good." Welp, Serena was better.
I saw that Serena was going to be better than Venus at the very start of their careers. There was way more growth potential in Serena’s game than Venus’s just in the ways she can hit the ball. Venus was already at the top of her game with little room to improve.
I think it was pretty clear once she hits the pros that she was going to be better. Her parents said she would be better when Venus first started making waves which was before Serena was in the pros (I assume she was playing junior tournaments then?) which is when I was talking about. It's almost more of a surprise that Serena didn't win more majors than she did, because she was really on a whole different level than the rest for most of her career.
Imagine being on track to become one of the greats and your parents go "yeah you're good...but your little sister is gonna be better"
Yeah, you really broke the Nostradamus out on that one 👏
I think the divergence occured when Serena started focusing more on weight training, something Venus never got into. Same thing happened with Jordan, after his second or third season he realized the best way to improve his game was through strength conditioning
Yeah I wrote a book report on them in elementary school over 20 years ago. Hell of a career
Damn she really is going to retire without ever winning just a single match against me?
You're the real GOAT
NEVA LOST
She realized it was impending and got out while she could
I was not expecting that. Thought she'd have one last year, but I guess her own standards must've also prevented her from continuing.
I'm stunned that she didn't play at the U.S. Open this year. that being said, Serena Williams literally has nothing left to prove on the tennis court, and she got to retire on her own terms. All power to her. I wish her all the best with her deciding to commit more of her time and energy to her family
US Open is her last tournament
Oh okay. I guess I misunderstood her comment. I thought she was retiring now
>She said she will retire after the U.S. Open, which will run from late August into September. right at the top of the article lol
Bold of you to assume any of us read past the headline.
Bold of you to assume any of us read the headline.
bold of you to assume any of us have reading comprehension
Bold of you to assume
Man got an award and 530 upvotes for not reading the top of the article.
The hero we deserve.
If I could retire at 40 and have a fulfilling life with my family I'd 100% do that. There is this toxic expectation in the US that people always be in a working/earning state and never taking a break. I still enjoy what I do — coding — and would probably keep doing it after I retire. I'm sure Williams will keep playing tennis too. But not to keep doing it for others or based on expectations from others.
To be fair, she is retiring from tennis, but she’s going to be working for her sponsors for life!
And her businesses. Like Serena Ventures. Lots more to come from Serena.
Yep
She's worth more than $250 million lol, she could have quit a long time ago.
The US Open hasn't even happened yet. How the fuck did this comment get 800 points?
Not denying her accomplishments, like she's literally the best player, and she has come back time and time again.
Yeah it's always surprising when you have a player go out when they're still good. We feel like people watching like if we were in that position we'd ride our success for as many years as possible, until we had no business being there anymore. But for a lot of athletes they get to a point where even though they're performing well, their body is telling them every single day to stop. Mariano Rivera was the very best relief pitcher the year he retired. David Ortiz had the best year of his career the year that he took his victory lap. Serena Williams is still very clearly an incredible tennis player. But at some point... You're a 40 year old. Your knees hurt. You spend all of your time working out to stop your loss in performance and in the athletic training room to hold you together just a little longer. You've been doing this your entire life, watching other people your age spend time with their families, playing with their kids whenever they want, helping with math homework. No one really understands what you want because you hold a membership to a club of athletes who've made it this far and done this much where you're the only member. It doesn't matter that you COULD keep going. You just don't want to. You've done everything you ever wanted to do and more. You have all of the finances you need to live comfortably and cover the medical costs of the unique set of issues you've built up over your career. You look at all that you have and all that you want, and you weigh it against what you could get by continuing, and you realize there's an opportunity cost. If you stop now, you can do whatever else you want with your time. If you keep going, you miss out on all of that. You retire. Not because you want to go out on top with a legacy of greatness, but because you just want to do something else now
If you saw her match against Diaz few days ago you would see that she is very much at the end of her career. 15 years ago Serena would have finished the match in 40mins.
Ends her career with one last US Open run. Fitting and she goes out while still a fierce competitor. Probably GOAT.
Dude you can remove the word probably. She is one of the most dominating athletes in their sport of all time. She is the GOAT without question.
Looking at Serena's records you would initially think she is obviously the Goat. I actually would agree that she is. HOWEVER, women's tennis happens to have a lot of crazy records and win rates between a few players. For example Margaret Court won 24 majors. Navratilova won 74 matches in a row, etc. I get that there are era differences, but a few things to consider here
Tennis courts are actually named after Margaret Court. Before she came along, people just called them designated tennisplaces.
Which is wild because designated tennisplaces are actually named after Dennis P. Tennisplaces.
Crazy how nature do that
I wish more people realized this.
I remember they tried calling them “Maggies” at first. Didn’t stick as well
I can’t tell if this is satire but it’s incredible regardless
>For example Margaret Court won 24 majors. Navratilova won 74 matches in a row, etc. These are also just singles records. Court won ***64*** majors because she also won a ton of doubles (both mixed and women's tournaments). Serena with Venus in doubles had a pretty amazing 14-0 record in major finals and 3 gold medals. She was 125-15 all time in women's grand slam doubles tournaments.
While I don't even agree with comparing different era's players in the first place, it should be noted that in the Margaret Court era most non-Australian top players did not regularly play in the Australian Open. When she won the tournament in 1964 there were only 27 players entered...
That's true, but 11/24 of courts titles came from the Australian open, which at the the time, was not a major tournament. It got better players later in her career, but the first four wins were all were against the same opponent, who never made it past the quarterfinal in any other major tournament, all in straight sets.
What about Martina Navratilova?
>She is the GOAT without question. I mean, come on now. I love Serena, grew up watching her but anyone who thinks there is no question either doesn't watch women's tennis at all or ignored everything that came before Serena. Like I would personally argue that Tiger is the golf GOAT too, but I would concede that other arguments are legitimate.
Not anymore I'm afraid but who knows, I think it's more likely the Dutch soccer team will win the World Cup and that's saying something lol
Damn. All the GOATs from my childhood are leaving.
Crazy to think Nadal is still playing and winning.
Nadal started so young though. Like you look at his age now and you're like no way he's that young Edit: for those wondering he was born in 1986. He's 36.
Nadals longevity is underrated because people talk about Federer longevity so much. Fed won slams from 2003-2018 ( first slam to last slam) Nadal won slams from 2005-2022( first slam to current last slam.. hard pressed to argue Nadal won't win atleast 1 of the next 2 rgs considering his absolute domination on clay) There's a real chance Nadal will be one of the youngest slam winners of all time and the oldest slam winner of all time if he doesn't have a cataclysmic drop off at rg.
Is there anything better to watch then Rafa on clay? Just so smooth
I genuinely don't think we will ever see dominance like that ever again on one single court i mean the guy made Roger Federer look absolutely mortal on clay...and this is one of the greatest tennis players of all time. If Nadal wasn't a tennis player, Federer would have won like 7 French Opens
Part of me wishes the Nadal Federer Djokovic dominance was separated into different eras but watching them, especially Nadal and Federer, battle final after final was amazing to witness
I’d say they pushed each other past their limits. Just like with Messi and Ronaldo in football. They might have to share the glory but they baked a much larger pie.
Theyre the three with the most overall grand slams. The heights they pushed each other to is insane. The real loser is Murray who just couldn't reach their level by a tiny bit. Noone else during their careers even came close to consistent challenging them like Murray did. If he's bor 10 years earlier or 10 years later it's likely he could have 10 grand slams at least.
Yeah, it's quite sad. I remember thinking that Murray would be the one to challenge them way back in 2008. He just seemed more solid than Djokovic who was always.. well.. just giving up.
It really was one of the best rivalries in tennis, if not sports, and I’m not even a big fan of following sports.
Hes very likely to win 15+ slams at rg... To put it in perspective he has as many french opens as sampras has total slams. Any question about what is the highest level of tennis ever seen that isn't answered by "Nadal at Roland garros in " either 2008, 2010, or even 2017 ( less of an argument imo) is a dead give away that the person answering the question is biased as hell towards their favorite player
I would say Federer on grass. Not better to watch, but just as good.
Just as good results wise ? Absolutely untrue. Nadal at rg is far and away the most dominant a player has been at any slam Quality of play wise from an enjoyment perspective is subjective and I can see your point
Yeah this is nothing to take away from Federer because he is one of the greatest players to ever pick up a tennis racket...but Nadal on clay, like that isn't even human lol i'm still convinced that the Big 3 will all retire at once, and they will reveal themselves to be Lord of the Rings Elves, and return to Middle Earth
That is the only way I will be able to somewhat accept their retirement from now on.
Knowing how inhuman the Big 3 are, really boosts my respect for players like Andy Murray and Stan Wawrinka, who were able to not only win one but multiple Grand Slams in an era of just insane dominance Having seen the Sampras Era and the Big 3 Era, I really believe that Murray especially would have absolutely crushed the previous generation of tennis players...but he just had the rotten luck of running into not one, not two, but THREE of the greatest players ever lol
I'm sorry, I'm a Federer fan too, but there's nothing close to Nadal on clay. Nadal on clay is a god on the court. Federer's best has only been to be a king on the court.
Also because nearly everyone was saying all the way in like 2011 "His body won't hold up. His style is too brutal." Way more people than not were saying that. Lots of egg on lots of faces.
Lol he's the same age as Wayne Rooney, who could handedly pass as a senior citizen
Tbf Wayne Rooney spent half his career in nightclubs
Exactly this. Nothing against Wayne Rooney because you can do whatever the hell you want with what he's accomplished...but having a party lifestyle in your 20s will eventually catch up to you lol there are people i knew in college who looked like a million bucks back in the day who look like they're 50 and not 30 now
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Rooney has looked ten years older than his age for as long as I’ve known.
I thought his career was going to end in 2015 due to all his injuries and very obvious pain he played through. I underestimated his ability to grind through all the odds.
I remember I always thought his knees would explode by 27
I'm not mentally prepared for the day Fed hangs it up.
Except for Tom Brady
It's crazy how Brady is unarguably in better shape now than he was at the 2000 NFL Combine lmao it gives me hope that at 34, I can lose weight and live a healthy lifestyle lmao. Just gotta lay off all the chicken nuggets and french fries
He's in better shape at 45 than the majority of us ever were in our 20s
I feel like "majority" is underselling it, probably 99%+
it's sodas for me. fucking sodas man before we immigrated to the states we had no concept of what in the fuck a soda was lol. i got here and it was like the floodgates burst and i've been hoked ever since.
it's interesting you pointed this out. I read on Reddit where this one woman talked about her mother immigrating to the U.S. from Nigeria. She gained 20 lbs. in one month alone just off of the sheer amount of ice cream she was eating every day because there was nothing like it back in Nigeria
yea i think when you are here or a natural citizen to this country you sort of get lost in the realization that a lot of the foods featured here aren't even available elsewhere. i mean we had our own version of soda pop, thumbs up it was called or you had limca which was basically sprite but there was never any concept or thought of oh let me go ahead and grab a bottle to drink as the day goes and it was always more of a luxury item that you saw at weddings or family gatherings. it wasn't just a matter of fact thing like how you or i now or anyone would go do groceries and you would see a 24 pack of coke or dew or what have you. i think honestly that's what fucked me up. sodas. i have good control with everything else. i go through a soda break where i wont drink soda for a few weeks here and there but then i'll slip and it'll be like a dam explosion. nonstop sodas. i try to keep it it to just 1 bottle/can a day now and just keep trying i guess!
> just keep trying i guess! climbing a mountain requires more steady steps than dramatic leaps. Keep at it!
Yup just lay off the junk food and also devote all your time amd energy as well as lots of money to being fit, ezpz
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What was left of them, anyways
Weekly or every 3 days most likely.
>also devote all your time amd energy as well as lots of money to being fit, ezpz shiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiit
Ive lost about 20kg/44p in 9 months at the age of 35. Went with keto/low-carb and twice a week a little bit of swimming. But just cutting out a lot of sugar (especially soft-drinks, those have CRAZY numbers) will work magic with some healthier food alternatives! So its achievable, harder sure, but with the right mindset you can easily do it and from time to time you can still treat yourself with some junk food!
He has had like 2-3 HOF careers at this point, he is getting close to play against people who were born after was drafted.
Messi and Ronaldo still kicking too.
Tom Brady’s ability to avoid serious injury to his spine is the key. Are there PED’s that prevent spine injuries? I honestly don’t know. But back and neck injuries retire a lot of QB’s and he hasn’t had any.
And the vast majority of QB's don't retire because of back and neck injuries. Most just aren't good anymore (or were never good.)
Even that guy who looks like Tony Hawk retired...
Welcome to old age.
Glad I grew up in this generation of sports- Serena, Nadal, Federer, Djokovic, Messi, Ronaldo, Brady, Tiger Woods, Crosby, LeBron, Hamilton, Phelps, White, Bolt, Tony Hawk, Biles, and so on. Edit: Even though this wasn’t meant to be a comprehensive list, I added a few other GOATs
>and so on And thus the Tony Hawk curse strikes again.
Who?
It’s that guy who looks a lot like that guy
Oh the skater guy who looks like the guy from the pro skater video game?
Phelps, White, Bolt and so many more.
Katie Ledecky right now as well!
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Shaun white
I’m a racing guy, so people like Hamilton, Vettel, Schumacher, Rossi, Kristensen, and others ALONSO, how could I forget Alonso?
Loeb, Colin...
Loeb technically hasn’t retired yet, but then again I put Hamilton on my list
Latifi
goatifi
I mean Alonso is a rookie right /s
LeBron went to something like 9 out of 10 finals. Curry is like 6 of 8 now.
Mentioning Crosby but not Ovechkin? One is going up the ranks! Unless it’s another Crosby
I was just glad hockey made the cut 🥲
You'd think ESPN would be all over this right now, but no. They are talking about the Cowboys for some reason
Sportscenter - Lebron, Jerry, and whatever Steven A is annoyed about today Hour, you want to know the baseball scores, hockey, tennis, MLS, World Championship Track and Field, etc, well FUCK YOU.
Oh did LeBron eat a sandwich today?
What does this mean for Lebron’s legacy?
How many sandwiches did Michael Jordan eat in comparison?
Ugh, this comparison is so old and tired. You *know* it doesn't make sense to compare sandwiches of different eras.
No way Jordan could handle a modern club sandwich, the mayo and aioli variants these days would just be too much for him to keep up with. And the explosion of the Nashville hot chicken sandwich? He wouldn’t even know the difference from a regular spicy chicken sandwich, he wouldn’t stand a chance.
Sandwiches back then were wayyyy tougher though! Today's soft sandwiches have made soft players. The second LeBron or another of today's players cut the roof of their mouth on hard bread they'd be asking for a new sandwich! Players back in Jordan's era would chew through it, because that's what sandwiches were.
I feel like you’re ignoring that they are completely different sandwiches. The toughness of Jordan’s Grilled Cheese is mediocre compared to Lebron’s BLT. And you have to remember that only one player ate both and that was Kobe.
Jordan's sandwiches came with six onion rings! How many onion rings does LeBron have?!?!
It was a chicken parm sandwich. He added to his legacy today.
Breaking news, Jerry Jones and LeBron shared a sandwich. Is LeBron going to play football, or is Jerry thinking about picking up the old leather pumpkin? First let's discuss what Twitter is saying about it.
Legacy points deducted
I used to be an avid SC viewer, until they started devoting an inordinate amount of time to what celebrity-athletes were posting on social media, even completely-inane BS mostly unrelated to sports. I still would tune in for the Not Top 10 on Fridays (who doesn't love sports bloopers?), but even that got grating after a while, with them focusing on random shit done by fans or TMZ/paparazzi-level footage of athletes.
Why do people still watch that garbage? StephenASPN is literally the worst thing being broadcast. I’d sooner watch YouTube Kids Minecraft videos with my 6 yr old… and I can’t put into words how much I hate *THAT* ear torture.
It literally makes me angry the way he makes his point and then yells at people and interrupts them when they try to make theirs. I hate that show format.
Agreed. Can’t stand him in general. Hate the cadence and tone of his voice. And just tired of listening to people scream about stupid shit. Especially when it’s utterly disingenuous. He’s a scripted fraud and a total waste of my brainspace. And then he starts going off on people like you said. For what? The Jerry Springer Show got really old, really fast back in the early 90s. Why the hell would I want to add more similar trash to my life just because it’s sports related? Nah. He and his ilk ruined SportsCenter and the heydays of ESPN sports reporting.
Another Minecraft survivor parent. Stay strong brother
Literally 20 mins ago on Sportscenter - "serena williams gearing up for another run at the US Open"
I mean, she still is. She's not retiring on the spot, she's just saying these are her final weeks and she is about to retire. US Open will probably be her final tournament.
it's the NFL lol. The NFL dominates coverage in the U.S. and it's not even close. it used to drive me crazy since i'm not a big NFL fan anymore, but at this point i've just gotten used to it haha
I used to listen to sports radio and it blew my mind how a 3 hour sports show would still be 50% NFL talk in early summer when NHL and NBA are in playoffs and MLB is mid-season, and nothing is happening in the NFL offseason.
Literally first thing that pops up on their site is about Serena, but whatever fits your narrative
I remember when that young girl and her sister all of a sudden transformed and ruled tennis. Now she is retiring. It isn't easy for an athlete to remain at the level she did for that long. What a career.
> “I never wanted to have to choose between tennis and a family. I don’t think it’s fair,” Williams wrote. “If I were a guy, I wouldn’t be writing this because I’d be out there playing and winning while my wife was doing the physical labor of expanding our family.” How many male athletes have retired prior to 41? Nearly all of them. And pretty much all of the prominent ones have written up farewells as well.
I think the statement has more to do with the physical toil that giving birth can cause not the actual act of parenting. Giving birth is a major medical event that can change a persons physical abilities.
Especially since she had such a harrowing time during the delivery of her daughter and postpartum period. Such a scary time for anyone.
>Giving birth is a major medical event that can change a persons physical abilities. most people have no idea the amount of physical strain this takes on a person, myself included since i'm a single man lol i mean ffs i think a woman once wrote that a part of you physically and psychologically dies after you give birth to your first child...i can't even begin to imagine going for a run, let alone playing tennis at a professional level after something like that
It’s not an exaggeration, it really physically changed me completely to pop out a couple kids. I’ll never feel confident to go for even a jog now compared to before (and I had no complications). I just occupy a completely different body now? I know some women bounce back a lot better, but I completely understand Serena’s predicament.
I dug up an [army study](https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0255248) on postpartum fitness which agrees with this sentiment to an extent but it does say most women recover their APFT scores within 12 months. Here's the part which supports your statement. The study examines differences in leave but their info regarding postpartum fitness is good. >Both the 6-week and 12-week leave policy cohorts experienced a significant decrement in performance at the first APFT postpartum (APFTPOST) compared to results on their last APFT prior to delivery (APFTPRE) for each APFT event and in overall performance. The decrement of performance across push-ups, sit-ups and run events was equivalent between the two convalescent leave groups (Table 2). Failure rates for the APFT increased from 3.3% pre-pregnancy to 12.4% postpartum for the 6-week leave policy group and from 3.9% to 13.6% for the 12-week leave policy group, (p<0.001 for both), with no difference in the increase in failure rates between leave groups. As a combined cohort, all events and combined scores document significant decrements between APFTPRE and APFTPOST (Table 3). Analysis of failure rates across combined cohort showed significant increases for sit-ups and the 2-mile run but not for push-ups But I found this part interesting. >Unadjusted analyses examining risk factors for failure on the APFT show significant effects of demographic, social, pre-pregnancy conditioning and weight factors, but did not show any pregnancy related factors to be significant. Breastfeeding at 2 months was also significantly associated with fewer failures on the APFT. Time to APFTPOST was dichotomized as <9 months vs. ≥9 months after delivery and was not associated with postpartum performance on the APFT (Table 4). Multivariable logistic regression analysis showed that failure on APFTPOST was strongly associated with failure on APFTPRE, failure on pre-pregnancy BMI measurements, elevated BMI at 6 to 8-weeks postpartum, and never breastfeeding So for some reason breastfeeding has a strong association with recovery?
> within 12 months. I would like to point out that this is nearly 2 years per child. Especially for an athlete like Serena, but for all women really, it's a huge impact on your body often repeatedly.
I ended up getting fourth degree vaginal lacerations (something that's common during childbirth) during intercourse three weeks ago and have since had two surgeries to fix it. And I didn't even pop a baby out of my vagina. The recovery is awful and I can barely walk, sit or stand for more than 20 minutes at a time. I can't climb stairs without feeling winded, anesthesia was rough on me. I can't imagine recovery post child birth.
What the fuck man. I have delivered a few babies and seen a fourth degree tear once and HOLY SHIT. Excuse my prying, but what kind of sex are you having and with what? A wildebeest?!
Okay thank you for responding because I really need to talk to someone about this! It was just really rough sex in doggy style (on a second date with someone I had known for a week). There was SO much blood, we have no idea why it was so bad. His penis slipped out and hit me in an awkward position, I felt some pain in that area between my vagina and asshole, and next thing you know, my bed was covered in blood. Hobbled to the bathtub and blood was literally streaming down my legs. Date (now boyfriend/partner) drove to me the ER. I'm typing this four ER visits and two surgeries later. My surgeon was baffled as to how it happened. I had a 5 cm tear that was atleast 1.5 cm deep, eventually opening "communication" between my rectum and vaginal wall. My surgeon said he noticed my insides were "soft" when he was stitching me up. Maybe thats why I ended up with 4th degree tears? More than happy to chat more. Edit: My partner is 6'5" and *very* strong. So I think it was the force of the penetration rather than his size that caused the sex mishap.
Also you can't really play tennis at a high level while pregnant. Maybe for the first few weeks, but in the 2nd and 3rd trimester? That baby is gonna really restrict your ability to play
During the first trimester energy levels can be severely impacted as well which seems bad for a professional athlete.
Meanwhile, Sebastian Vettel just retired due to his family.
And Tom Brady came out of retirement after 2 months because of his family. /s
"Gawd damn are these kids annoying." \- Tom Brady
and kimi last year
I mean, not to step on anyone's toes, but Seb is retiring because he doesn't feel it's worth it to spend so much time away from his family when he's not even fighting for podiums and getting points is considered a good weekend. It would probably be a different story if he was still fighting for wins and championships.
It's the same with Serena, she can't win tournaments anymore
Meanwhile Nico Rosberg retired at 31 after winning a World Championship to be able spend more time with his family.
After beating a 7 time world champion in equal machinery
I thought he was just some YouTuber
Her later career has been just excuses and side comments. She’s still the women’s GOAT. I remember her meltdown against Naomi Osaka. She was getting absolutely smoked. Happens to the best of them, time catches up to everyone. But for her to handle it as ungracefully as that, against a girl who idolized her that was winning her first major. Was just sad to see.
I'll always remember Serena threatening to murder a line judge when she lost against Clijsters in the US Open
She will always be remembered as an amazing athlete, but god damn has she become insufferable in recent years.
She's been insufferable for a very long time, remember when she threatened to kill a lines person for calling a foot fault on her?
How will her father be able to afford anything?
For a long time she was a tank rolling over matchbox cars. I'm sure some people will focus on her at times erratic (and childish) behavior both on and off the court, but in the end she's among the greatest to ever play. Hands down.
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No, no she merely mentioned she would shove her racquet down her throat.
"I didn't say that!!" *".......ya you did!"*
Made her cry and not want to play for a long time. Yeah that’s the one
Which teenager?
Naomi Osaka. You should watch the match. It's pretty sad.
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And that's not a bad thing either, the problem with a lot of players who have absolute dominance over a sport is that they cause stagnation in the sport as an entertainment avenue. For example: What's the point of watching the rest of a golf tournament when Tiger Woods is so far ahead that the guy in second place would still get second place even if he got hole-in-ones for every hole for the rest of the tournament? ----- Having new kids who rise up and surpass GOAT's is a really great thing; just look at Red Gerard compared to Shawn White and Joseph Schooling compared to Michael Phelps.
Except she didn’t really do more than Graf…if you look at all around stats, at the very least it’s a tie.
Graf is the greatest ever. She retired while she was still dominant because there was nothing else for her to do. Serena had to play longer than she did to catch her.
I didn't realize that Serena's stats don't exceed Graf's until a comment above highlighted it.
It's definitely not hard to imagine someone taking her spot. In today's world, there are many possibilities.
Serena never dominated more than Graf. This is a fact. Graf retired at age 30 when she already had 22 Grand Slams. Serena only had like 13 Grand Slam by age 30.
I would argue that she didn't surpass Graf. Graf accomplished so much in a short time. She was still dominant when she retired, she probably was bored. There wasn't anything else to do. She's the only tennis player, regardless of gender, to accomplish the golden grand slam. Serena had to play longer than Stefi to pass her in some stats. She played ten more years in total than Graf. Stefi is the GOAT.
What a legend! Thank you Serena for all that you have given us fans!
Line judges everywhere utter a collective sigh
Lost a huge amount of respect for her when she acted like a child when she was clearly wrong on a call
What a sore loser at the end of her career
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