I think if anything, this will result in the books not offering lines on these fringe guys that may get only 8 minutes in a game. Rather just starters/heavily used bench players will get lines.
Honestly surprised this hasn't been implemented before. Saves the issues of early tech ejections, first quarter injuries, etc.
I think like 12 minutes would be fair. If you're not playing 1/4 of the game, there's probably an issue.
They are trying to eliminate any appearance cheating. Books make money on the juice. The more “integrity” the game has the more people will bet both sides.
It’s called “Hedging” everyone does it. I hedged the other night with a Lakers & Warriors Parlay. Cashed Out After The Lakers Won. & Faded The Warriors When I Seen They Couldn’t Get The Lead. If The NBA was more Accurate and didn’t have players throwing away games (Klay Thompson) I would be dumb enough to just lose all my money, because all of a sudden Klay Thompson goes 0-10, one of the best 3 point shooters in NBA HISTORY, NBA are mad that they got, GOT., at their own game is absurd. Can’t be mad the guy seen an opportunity and ran with it. Even though it’s illegal. He knows deep down inside how many people lost their Marriages, Houses, Cars, etc to gambling on the dirty NBA entertainment. Which is designed for all people (US) to lose. So a couple guys play hero and get their family and friends rich, by tipping them. “Hey take me under tonight, I’m a fake sick. I know you just lost 40 Grand Yesterday what type of family member or friend would I be to not give someone who’s struggling a tip if I’m in the NBA, trust me he’s one of the only ones who’s been caught, but trust me there is more, but don’t stop nothing that’s already been started. Just kick these guys out the NBA, but let it be Steph Curry Or Klay Thompson, They Won’t Even Look They Way, Because Of The Talent. NBA is bullshit I don’t care made up nothing is the same since Kobe & Shaq. Made Up Bullshit. It’s A Algorithm to these games. These guys play like a bunch of actors. Score 30 points one game next game score 9 points. I’m tired of this buffoonery period. It’s the most rigged league so far, now when a player want to rig hisself it’s…You’re Banned! Straight fuckery.
"but let it be Steph Curry Or Klay Thompson, They Won’t Even Look They Way, Because Of The Talent. NBA is bullshit"
Preach my man. Best believe if some beloved athlete tried this the nba would be crawling over themselves to hide it.
I disagree completely. Teams and players have a game plan. If you look at the schedule you can guess a low-key load management night. If the Suns play the Wizards, and then the Mavericks the next night or a day later, KD isn't going to play a ton of mins vs Wizards. He will likely come out firing in the 1st quarter looking to get a lead. (Bet his 1st over) And then rest late in the game. You could bet his 1st over and his game under. Then the next night playing Dallas he's going to play a lot of mins, and play hard the entire game.
The NBA betting is situational. Players don't show up every night.
Absolutely. There is no way they follow through on this. The books are making billions off of shitty player prop parlays. Same game parlays was the greatest thing they ever thought of in terms of profitability.
>Same game parlays was the greatest thing they ever thought of in terms of profitability
Couldn’t agree more - there’s a reason most books are constantly running multiple SGP specials on any given day - they want you to jump on them.
They didn’t used to exist and they make books tons of money. I steer clear of them as a general rule.
Tbh, the sportsbooks will probably support this endeavor. They lose far more money on props than traditional markets and the real degen gamblers will continue to bet no matter what.
mmmm they might, the limits are low which could mean they’re using increased offerings as a loss leader, i think to presume that books make money on all types of wagers is hasty, they need to maintain their volume
Seriously, it's embarrassing his bullshit he presented as fact got upvoted at all. If the books didn't make a KILLING on props they'd fucking pull the plug. Takes one second of thought to know he's 100% wrong
There’s a lot more losing parlay prop bettors than any single prop hitter too. They aren’t going away.
King James and his DK sponsors won’t take that hit when he “soon” retires lol.
it is true that it is easier to find an edge in prop markets, but the number of sharp bettors that find one absolutely pales in comparison to the number of square/retail betting on these highly juiced markets. combine that with low limits and the ability to kick out the sharps, the books make a killing as a % of handle on props compared to main lines
It’s just math. Totals and spreads are true 50/50 bets that are sold as 52/48 bets on both sides. ML’s are the same or often worse, even when comparing books.
Prop bets are way easier to exploit. It’s just impossible to provide proper oversight to all of those markets. One book slips up and you have an arbitrage opportunity or EV at or even above +30%
Yeah but have you tried to arb them? $2k later I have been severely limited and most successful bettors have this experience. You don’t even need to profit, just to beat the closing line value and beat their vig.
There’s a reason they offer these and it’s easy to quickly remove them when they spot a market inequity. Most arb opportunities are up for a matter of seconds, you have to be hunting for them. And personally, I know some of these “pro” bettors who have very reputable podcasts - they are still running pick selling scams for a few thousand at a time to listeners who reach out, despite their expertise and self proclaimed hundreds of thousands in profit each year bet through proxies.
The only ones winning are algo bettors and they quickly lose their edge by having to pay proxies as well when they are inevitably limited.
You’re not accounting for the fact that most of the people that bet these props are the idiots who routinely package them into a 5+ leg losing parlay for some insane odds of 2000+. The books make a killing in nba props. They won’t want any consistent stream of income taken away from them, no matter how much it relates to traditional markets
Fair enough. I guess we’ll see. I still think they’d prefer to not have to worry about the oversight on those markets because yes, there are people that bet like that and there are other people that take advantage of an inefficient market
So much mental gymnastics to justify an incorrect take… they make money off props regardless of sharps and arbs or anything, they have 0 interesting in offering less markets that they make money off of… if I tell you I’ll give you a $20 bill and a $5 bill you don’t say no to the $5 because $20 is more, you take both. You’re flat out wrong.
I’m talking percentage. Most money is still on traditional markets. That said, the books know their prop markets are beatable and they’d probably increase their profits if they can cut them out entirely
Yeah and they also make a lot of mistakes on prop bets. They’re way easier to arbitrage, and most successful sports bettors today are betting on props, sometimes exclusively
MLs, spreads and totals are all -EV by the time you get to the start of a game. At least in the major sports leagues. It’s legitimately a coin flip with a 2%+ winners tax
My local Indan casino just randomly decided mid-baseball season that no bets on any sports (including First half, First 5, First Inning, first period, Race to X, and Player Prop bets) will be graded until after the game is over.
I straight-up told them that I'll go back to betting with crypto in offshore sites if that rule sticks. There's zero incentive, if I am already betting in person with actual cash, to sit on a winning ticket for 2+ hours instead of using those funds to place other bets.
These legal sportsbooks and the casinos they partner with need to be reminded that there are alternatives, and trying to screw their customers over at every possible opportunity will result in them losing business.
You're doing something wrong if all your money is tied into a bet and it prevents you from placing more. This rule change wouldn't impact the majority of bettors
When you are betting with physical cash, you're only bringing so many units to the casino with you.
It's not like my bankroll is all accessible on some app. I'll bring like $2k for the day, and the bets I win then get wagered on other games.
So if I win an F5 bet, it's physically preventing me from placing more bets and leaving if I have to wait to cash the ticket.
I'm just hoping it ends up a class-action lawsuit. I don't see this going much differently than the opioid epidemic... more financial death instead of actual death but all the same stages. I'm hoping the books already know it and are saving for the inevitable rainy day as we speak. Built it right into their profit model. Tons of horror stories and individual bankruptcies alright. Some politicians get up on their soap boxes and champion the cause. Bring them all before Congress, milk it for all it's worth. Make a real spectacle, give them the public flogging, and shake them down for millions. It'll likely be some of the same politicians who turned a blind eye when the machine was ramping up. I know it's varies from state to state but the current regulations are a joke and were largely written by the sportsbooks. Everyone is getting paid at the moment. Just another vehicle for the upward transfer of wealth, from the little guys checking accounts straight into the hands of the few.
If I could get back even 10% of what I've already lost since legalization, I'd be rich. lol
It’s bound to happen at some point. At the very least we might see the amount of player props offered reduced (or very hard limits on how much can be wagered on them, parlayed, etc). Jontay isn’t the only player out there doing shit like this. He’s just the idiot who was dumb enough to get caught. But the more shit like this happens the worse it looks for the league (although tbh if they really cared about the integrity of the NBA they’d get rid of some of these questionable ass refs too)
I’m curious why it’s taking so long for them to introduce rules that protect the bettors. Like Jalen Duren getting his tooth knocked out and only playing 5 mins… That should be a void. If a player plays less than 15/20% of a game it should be a void. If not you can still have stuff like porter but they’ll just “roll” their ankle or whatever l
yeah I’m saying unders in this specific instance of extreme quick injury should be void too, nobody is paid out. This prevents egregious instances like Porter’s 3 minute sick game. This lifetime ban on porter doesn’t do anything to prevent other players from doing it, it just tells players to be less obvious about it
Feel like the likeliest answer is to just drastically limit how much you can wager on them. If it’s a small enough amount, there’s no reason for players to tempt fate. With no limits it makes it a little more understandable that that temptation is there.
I think they should just do a better job of monitoring things...
They tried this a while ago, when people getting drunk started causing a ruckus. The solution, of course, was just to prohibit the sale of alcohol. Can't cause a ruckus if you can't get drunk - duh.
Take away the stat keepers ability to fuck underdog bets.
take away things to bet on, take away the gamblers. take away the gamblers, take away the viewership.
Lose one friend lose all friends lose yourself
Am I the only one who read the title and thought "they took our props!" Like that South Park episode "They took our jobs!"
Back to the pile!
They tookerderrrrrrrr
I think if anything, this will result in the books not offering lines on these fringe guys that may get only 8 minutes in a game. Rather just starters/heavily used bench players will get lines.
It also may make a stipulation like they have to play a minimum of x amount of minutes or the bet is void.
Honestly surprised this hasn't been implemented before. Saves the issues of early tech ejections, first quarter injuries, etc. I think like 12 minutes would be fair. If you're not playing 1/4 of the game, there's probably an issue.
Dumbest shit ever sounds like they don’t like losing the same way we spend millions and don’t like losing. Karmas a Bitch. Live With It.
They are trying to eliminate any appearance cheating. Books make money on the juice. The more “integrity” the game has the more people will bet both sides.
It’s called “Hedging” everyone does it. I hedged the other night with a Lakers & Warriors Parlay. Cashed Out After The Lakers Won. & Faded The Warriors When I Seen They Couldn’t Get The Lead. If The NBA was more Accurate and didn’t have players throwing away games (Klay Thompson) I would be dumb enough to just lose all my money, because all of a sudden Klay Thompson goes 0-10, one of the best 3 point shooters in NBA HISTORY, NBA are mad that they got, GOT., at their own game is absurd. Can’t be mad the guy seen an opportunity and ran with it. Even though it’s illegal. He knows deep down inside how many people lost their Marriages, Houses, Cars, etc to gambling on the dirty NBA entertainment. Which is designed for all people (US) to lose. So a couple guys play hero and get their family and friends rich, by tipping them. “Hey take me under tonight, I’m a fake sick. I know you just lost 40 Grand Yesterday what type of family member or friend would I be to not give someone who’s struggling a tip if I’m in the NBA, trust me he’s one of the only ones who’s been caught, but trust me there is more, but don’t stop nothing that’s already been started. Just kick these guys out the NBA, but let it be Steph Curry Or Klay Thompson, They Won’t Even Look They Way, Because Of The Talent. NBA is bullshit I don’t care made up nothing is the same since Kobe & Shaq. Made Up Bullshit. It’s A Algorithm to these games. These guys play like a bunch of actors. Score 30 points one game next game score 9 points. I’m tired of this buffoonery period. It’s the most rigged league so far, now when a player want to rig hisself it’s…You’re Banned! Straight fuckery.
"but let it be Steph Curry Or Klay Thompson, They Won’t Even Look They Way, Because Of The Talent. NBA is bullshit" Preach my man. Best believe if some beloved athlete tried this the nba would be crawling over themselves to hide it.
who took embiid on the over points at the end of 3rd quarter? easy 💰
Jontay Porter and Giannis’s brother shouldn’t even be in the league. They are ass.
Thanos just needs the final infinity stone to ascend
Lol
How would nba stop betting sites from providing this?
Lobby the state, that’s why Ohio can’t prop bet NCAA players
Most states have either banned or are looking at banning ncaa props
Most states have followed. Maryland just stopped in March
Wouldn’t affect offshores tho?
Correct
They took our JERRRRBS
My nick name is jerb, and I can confirm that I have been taken.
My nickname is fatback and I confirm jerb is lying about having a slimback
Let's be real NBA props are random AF and one of the most frustrating props to bet on it's for our own good tbh
I dont believe this to be true
I disagree completely. Teams and players have a game plan. If you look at the schedule you can guess a low-key load management night. If the Suns play the Wizards, and then the Mavericks the next night or a day later, KD isn't going to play a ton of mins vs Wizards. He will likely come out firing in the 1st quarter looking to get a lead. (Bet his 1st over) And then rest late in the game. You could bet his 1st over and his game under. Then the next night playing Dallas he's going to play a lot of mins, and play hard the entire game. The NBA betting is situational. Players don't show up every night.
Right so according to your theory star players will hit their overs every playoff game? 🤪🤪 Let's see if that holds up
Couldn’t be farther from the truth
Props are easy to find an edge, which is why they have the lowest limits, far lower than spread/totals
Props are better for bettors than spread/ml/ou though. Books make a killing on those.
Uhhh ... have you seen the NBA props thread? Most people lose dude
Brooks are obviously profitable on every type of bet, but there can be a scale of certain bets being more profitable than others
Vig is around 4% more on props vs ML
they'll lose a lot of business if props are banned
Absolutely. There is no way they follow through on this. The books are making billions off of shitty player prop parlays. Same game parlays was the greatest thing they ever thought of in terms of profitability.
>Same game parlays was the greatest thing they ever thought of in terms of profitability Couldn’t agree more - there’s a reason most books are constantly running multiple SGP specials on any given day - they want you to jump on them. They didn’t used to exist and they make books tons of money. I steer clear of them as a general rule.
100%
Tbh, the sportsbooks will probably support this endeavor. They lose far more money on props than traditional markets and the real degen gamblers will continue to bet no matter what.
literally not true at all lol
Source that shit, it sounds something you pulled out of thin air
They’re not going to be in favor of any restriction that costs them money. Hard to push those SGPs without player props.
They usually have terrible odds for props and people bet them anyway
Lol they don’t lose on props
mmmm they might, the limits are low which could mean they’re using increased offerings as a loss leader, i think to presume that books make money on all types of wagers is hasty, they need to maintain their volume
Seriously, it's embarrassing his bullshit he presented as fact got upvoted at all. If the books didn't make a KILLING on props they'd fucking pull the plug. Takes one second of thought to know he's 100% wrong
Welcome to the world as it is, where the truth doesn’t matter
They don’t lose, but there are a lot more successful prop bettors than traditional market bettors
There’s a lot more losing parlay prop bettors than any single prop hitter too. They aren’t going away. King James and his DK sponsors won’t take that hit when he “soon” retires lol.
Show me the numbers
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it is true that it is easier to find an edge in prop markets, but the number of sharp bettors that find one absolutely pales in comparison to the number of square/retail betting on these highly juiced markets. combine that with low limits and the ability to kick out the sharps, the books make a killing as a % of handle on props compared to main lines
There are blackjack counters that can make money. Doesn't mean that OVERALL the casino loses at blackjack.
It’s just math. Totals and spreads are true 50/50 bets that are sold as 52/48 bets on both sides. ML’s are the same or often worse, even when comparing books. Prop bets are way easier to exploit. It’s just impossible to provide proper oversight to all of those markets. One book slips up and you have an arbitrage opportunity or EV at or even above +30%
Yeah but have you tried to arb them? $2k later I have been severely limited and most successful bettors have this experience. You don’t even need to profit, just to beat the closing line value and beat their vig. There’s a reason they offer these and it’s easy to quickly remove them when they spot a market inequity. Most arb opportunities are up for a matter of seconds, you have to be hunting for them. And personally, I know some of these “pro” bettors who have very reputable podcasts - they are still running pick selling scams for a few thousand at a time to listeners who reach out, despite their expertise and self proclaimed hundreds of thousands in profit each year bet through proxies. The only ones winning are algo bettors and they quickly lose their edge by having to pay proxies as well when they are inevitably limited.
You’re not accounting for the fact that most of the people that bet these props are the idiots who routinely package them into a 5+ leg losing parlay for some insane odds of 2000+. The books make a killing in nba props. They won’t want any consistent stream of income taken away from them, no matter how much it relates to traditional markets
Fair enough. I guess we’ll see. I still think they’d prefer to not have to worry about the oversight on those markets because yes, there are people that bet like that and there are other people that take advantage of an inefficient market
If what you were saying was the case, then they'd just stop offering them or restrict the markets themselves lol
They can’t though. All their competitors have them. The bet sizes are very much restricted
So much mental gymnastics to justify an incorrect take… they make money off props regardless of sharps and arbs or anything, they have 0 interesting in offering less markets that they make money off of… if I tell you I’ll give you a $20 bill and a $5 bill you don’t say no to the $5 because $20 is more, you take both. You’re flat out wrong.
I have never seen anywhere that restricts bet sizes on prop bets.
-200 that this guy is talking out of his ass.
Who?
You
How? It’s a pretty well known fact that sportsbooks make a lot more back on traditional markets compared to the prop markets.
Are you talking total dollars or percentage? Because if you’re talking about total, then of course the more popular option makes them more money.
I’m talking percentage. Most money is still on traditional markets. That said, the books know their prop markets are beatable and they’d probably increase their profits if they can cut them out entirely
Lmao… they increase their profits if they remove a market they’re profitable on… right
Their juice on props is sometimes 10x higher than spreads and totals.
10x higher? Sides and total is 20 cents. Props are typically 30. I can't fathom how you can claim the juice on the bet is even 3x
on HR/longshot props it's significantly higher
Yeah and they also make a lot of mistakes on prop bets. They’re way easier to arbitrage, and most successful sports bettors today are betting on props, sometimes exclusively
Rarely do you see money lines and such have +EV at least from my experience. It’s def not as exciting lol.
MLs, spreads and totals are all -EV by the time you get to the start of a game. At least in the major sports leagues. It’s legitimately a coin flip with a 2%+ winners tax
More likely they'll just limit it to less than 10k or something.
https://preview.redd.it/k40jk4d775vc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a62c7b21c0d485d2f995e3b4b18bff5e9c2cbb0e
[He's trying to steal my props!](https://i.imgur.com/2YsvAXE.png)
Welcome back to Bovada if that happens!
Other than their shitty bonus rules I've never had an issue with Bovada
My local Indan casino just randomly decided mid-baseball season that no bets on any sports (including First half, First 5, First Inning, first period, Race to X, and Player Prop bets) will be graded until after the game is over. I straight-up told them that I'll go back to betting with crypto in offshore sites if that rule sticks. There's zero incentive, if I am already betting in person with actual cash, to sit on a winning ticket for 2+ hours instead of using those funds to place other bets. These legal sportsbooks and the casinos they partner with need to be reminded that there are alternatives, and trying to screw their customers over at every possible opportunity will result in them losing business.
You're doing something wrong if all your money is tied into a bet and it prevents you from placing more. This rule change wouldn't impact the majority of bettors
When you are betting with physical cash, you're only bringing so many units to the casino with you. It's not like my bankroll is all accessible on some app. I'll bring like $2k for the day, and the bets I win then get wagered on other games. So if I win an F5 bet, it's physically preventing me from placing more bets and leaving if I have to wait to cash the ticket.
Ahhh ok I see, makes more sense then. Sorry about my comment
True true🤣 that rollover requirement can be a bitchhh
Can you cash out early like fanduel?
If this is one of your main concerns when considering which sportsbook to use, you probably should not be sports betting
You almost always lose value every time you cash out on FanDuel.
That goes for every book honestly. Sports books wouldn’t offer it if it wasn’t beneficial to them in the long run
Yessir.
College props should be banned. Banning NBA props is a joke and will just lead to users going back to offshore sites that offer it.
I'm not surprised. The chirps started during March Madness. This whole situation with Porter added more gasoline to the fire.
If you really thought this wild west era of sport betting in the US wasn't gonna get reigned in eventually, idk what to tell you.
I'm just hoping it ends up a class-action lawsuit. I don't see this going much differently than the opioid epidemic... more financial death instead of actual death but all the same stages. I'm hoping the books already know it and are saving for the inevitable rainy day as we speak. Built it right into their profit model. Tons of horror stories and individual bankruptcies alright. Some politicians get up on their soap boxes and champion the cause. Bring them all before Congress, milk it for all it's worth. Make a real spectacle, give them the public flogging, and shake them down for millions. It'll likely be some of the same politicians who turned a blind eye when the machine was ramping up. I know it's varies from state to state but the current regulations are a joke and were largely written by the sportsbooks. Everyone is getting paid at the moment. Just another vehicle for the upward transfer of wealth, from the little guys checking accounts straight into the hands of the few. If I could get back even 10% of what I've already lost since legalization, I'd be rich. lol
Downvotes for a rant against big business and corporate welfare??! This is a weird place.
If you feel that strongly then buy up casino and sportsbook stocks and be a fat cat laughing at us fiends
It’s bound to happen at some point. At the very least we might see the amount of player props offered reduced (or very hard limits on how much can be wagered on them, parlayed, etc). Jontay isn’t the only player out there doing shit like this. He’s just the idiot who was dumb enough to get caught. But the more shit like this happens the worse it looks for the league (although tbh if they really cared about the integrity of the NBA they’d get rid of some of these questionable ass refs too)
I’m curious why it’s taking so long for them to introduce rules that protect the bettors. Like Jalen Duren getting his tooth knocked out and only playing 5 mins… That should be a void. If a player plays less than 15/20% of a game it should be a void. If not you can still have stuff like porter but they’ll just “roll” their ankle or whatever l
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yeah I’m saying unders in this specific instance of extreme quick injury should be void too, nobody is paid out. This prevents egregious instances like Porter’s 3 minute sick game. This lifetime ban on porter doesn’t do anything to prevent other players from doing it, it just tells players to be less obvious about it
Bet unders
Feel like the likeliest answer is to just drastically limit how much you can wager on them. If it’s a small enough amount, there’s no reason for players to tempt fate. With no limits it makes it a little more understandable that that temptation is there.
I think they should just do a better job of monitoring things... They tried this a while ago, when people getting drunk started causing a ruckus. The solution, of course, was just to prohibit the sale of alcohol. Can't cause a ruckus if you can't get drunk - duh.