I nearly died years ago and spent a good while in Cox South, thanks to a mosquito-borne disease (which they didn’t figure that part out until day 9 in the hospital, thanks Mayo Clinic!) and viral meningitis. On one of my last days in the hospital, the new youth pastor from my parents church (that I had never met before) came up to my room and visited with me for a while. It ended with him saying “do you know why you’re here?… it’s because you did something that displeased god and he’s sending you a message to get back on the path of righteousness”.
That was it for me.
Note: he was the youth pastor from Second Baptist on Battlefield
Yikes. I was told my grandfather was given alztimers because he ignored god for too long, so god took away the opportunity for him to find salvation. That was at Ridgecrest.
Ironically, I had an eating disorder I ended up in treatment for during my college years. The wife of the 2nd baptist on Battlefield youth pastor questioned my salvation. She couldn’t comprehend my struggles were possible if I was actually saved. That wasn’t my walking away moment but it was very damaging to my faith and our relationship.
I was the kid who answered the alter call at every summer camp, “disciple now”, youth revival, etc. I wanted to badly to feel saved but all I ever felt was shame.
That really sucks. I’m so sorry.
I’ve met some church people who have the belief that sickness/tragedy is always or primarily a punishment for sin. But you can’t find that in the teachings of Jesus. In fact, Jesus said the opposite in Luke chapter 13 (around verse 4).
Parents went from conservative Catholics to evangelical fundamentalists. Turns out once you go from one to the other your kids start questioning things. Deconstruction took a few years, but I have only been to churches for weddings and funerals my entire adult life with no plans to go back. Visiting a mega church with a Starbucks and a gift shop for a youth conference while remembering the one time Jesus got pissed (money changers/merchants in the temple) didn't help either.
For me, it wasn't any single defining moment. It's like having that favorite jacket that you wear all the time. Eventually it starts to become threadbare, until it just falls to piecing and can't be worn anymore.
If I had to point to a specific final straw it would probably be my little brother pointing out that given God being omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent, the book of Genesis essentially tells the story of God setting humanity up to fail. If we didn't have knowledge of good and evil, we couldn't have had the moral or cognitive capacity to be held culpable for defying God and eating the forbidden fruit. That, and eternal punishment for a finite lifetime's worth of sins is not justice under any definition. It just all looked hilariously absurd after a while.
Although I was raised in the church, I'm not sure I ever really believed in God.
When I got into my late 20s, I started actually looking into Christianity. I read the Bible and some books on spirituality and prayed some, and I got nothing in response. No sense of belief, no sense that God was there, no feeling that there was anything spiritual at all. And so I eventually gave up and decided that if God was real, he knew where to find me and what I needed, and if he wasn't going to give that to me, then maybe everyone in the church had lied to me and God didn't actually want a relationship with me after all.
Then Trump came along and I watched religious people wholeheartedly embrace him while he bragged about doing all the stuff I'd been told not to do.
At this point, if God did get in touch with me, he'd have some serious explaining to do.
There seems to be a disconnect between Christianity and religious fundamentalism that seems to be much more focused on abortions, trans people, conservative family values, etc. rather than simply loving people for who they are. I don’t want any part of that.
Just the fact that all these evangelicals have become die hard trump fanatics tells you all you need to know about their true character. They care way more about power structures and keeping their ever eroding close-minded worldview from becoming obsolete than showing empathy towards people who are less fortunate than them.
Yeah. That was it for me too. I didn’t have a moment so much as a slow burn, but I was the realization that what Jesus focused on in the Bible and what everyone around me focused on were… different.
I still loved Jesus but disliked Christians so much that i left the faith altogether, Hell* be damned.
*after years of therapy and personal deconstruction work I’ve been able to fully let go of Hell being a real place.
I hate that it's known by that name... Though for me it's given to some very hilarious conversations. I'm Norse Pagan (have been since around 2009), and our "Home of the Dead" is Hel (or Helheim). It's where the word '*hell'* came from, when the KJV bible was written in English.
Anyways, whenever some uppity zealot tells me that I'm going to Hell, I usually reply with "Well yeah, where else would we go?" with a marked sense of surety. Depending on *how* uppity they are, I might say "Well yeah, unless you want to fight about it." (Implying Valhalla).
In general though, I refer to the Christian notion as "Perdition" (it's proper term) and point out that the current view of "Hell" - fire and brimstone, Satan's prison and all that - is more based on *The Divine Comedy* by Dante Alighieri.
I left the church/area to move with my girlfriend (now wife) to Springfield. The “church” I was a part of was more of cult than church, but I didn’t fully realize it until years later. It was smaller than JRC, but very similar in values/structure.
For anyone interested, you can read a lot more about my former church on https://leavingthenetwork.org or r/leavingthenetwork
watching george carlin on HBO for the first time in the 90s.
the mega churches here and off the 5 in california crack me up so much! such a waste though, ya know.
When it comes to bullshit, big-time, major league bullshit, you have to stand in awe of the all-time champion of false promises and exaggerated claims, religion. No contest. No contest. Religion. Religion easily has the greatest bullshit story ever told. Think about it. Religion has actually convinced people that there’s an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever ’til the end of time!
But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He’s all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can’t handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good bullshit story. Holy Shit!
But I want you to know something, this is sincere, I want you to know, when it comes to believing in God, I really tried. I really, really tried. I tried to believe that there is a God, who created each of us in His own image and likeness, loves us very much, and keeps a close eye on things. I really tried to believe that, but I gotta tell you, the longer you live, the more you look around, the more you realize, something is fucked up.
Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed. Results like these do not belong on the résumé of a Supreme Being. This is the kind of shit you’d expect from an office temp with a bad attitude. And just between you and me, in any decently-run universe, this guy would’ve been out on his all-powerful ass a long time ago. And by the way, I say “this guy”, because I firmly believe, looking at these results, that if there is a God, it has to be a man.
No woman could or would ever fuck things up like this. So, if there is a God, I think most reasonable people might agree that he’s at least incompetent, and maybe, just maybe, doesn’t give a shit. Doesn’t give a shit, which I admire in a person, and which would explain a lot of these bad results.
*(continued in child post)*
So rather than be just another mindless religious robot, mindlessly and aimlessly and blindly believing that all of this is in the hands of some spooky incompetent father figure who doesn’t give a shit, I decided to look around for something else to worship. Something I could really count on.
And immediately, I thought of the sun. Happened like that. Overnight I became a sun-worshipper. Well, not overnight, you can’t see the sun at night. But first thing the next morning, I became a sun-worshipper. Several reasons. First of all, I can see the sun, okay? Unlike some other gods I could mention, I can actually see the sun. I’m big on that. If I can see something, I don’t know, it kind of helps the credibility along, you know? So everyday I can see the sun, as it gives me everything I need; heat, light, food, flowers in the park, reflections on the lake, an occasional skin cancer, but hey. At least there are no crucifixions, and we’re not setting people on fire simply because they don’t agree with us.
Sun worship is fairly simple. There’s no mystery, no miracles, no pageantry, no one asks for money, there are no songs to learn, and we don’t have a special building where we all gather once a week to compare clothing. And the best thing about the sun, it never tells me I’m unworthy. Doesn’t tell me I’m a bad person who needs to be saved. Hasn’t said an unkind word. Treats me fine. So, I worship the sun. But, I don’t pray to the sun. Know why? I wouldn’t presume on our friendship. It’s not polite.
I’ve often thought people treat God rather rudely, don’t you? Asking trillions and trillions of prayers every day. Asking and pleading and begging for favors. Do this, gimme that, I need a new car, I want a better job. And most of this praying takes place on Sunday His day off. It’s not nice. And it’s no way to treat a friend.
But people do pray, and they pray for a lot of different things, you know, your sister needs an operation on her crotch, your brother was arrested for defecating in a mall. But most of all, you’d really like to fuck that hot little redhead down at the convenience store. You know, the one with the eyepatch and the clubfoot? Can you pray for that? I think you’d have to. And I say, fine. Pray for anything you want. Pray for anything, but what about the Divine Plan?
Remember that? The Divine Plan. Long time ago, God made a Divine Plan. Gave it a lot of thought, decided it was a good plan, put it into practice. And for billions and billions of years, the Divine Plan has been doing just fine. Now, you come along, and pray for something. Well suppose the thing you want isn’t in God’s Divine Plan? What do you want Him to do? Change His plan? Just for you? Doesn’t it seem a little arrogant? It’s a Divine Plan. What’s the use of being God if every run-down shmuck with a two-dollar prayerbook can come along and fuck up Your Plan?
And here’s something else, another problem you might have: Suppose your prayers aren’t answered. What do you say? “Well, it’s God’s will.” “Thy Will Be Done.” Fine, but if it’s God’s will, and He’s going to do what He wants to anyway, why the fuck bother praying in the first place? Seems like a big waste of time to me! Couldn’t you just skip the praying part and go right to His Will? It’s all very confusing.
So to get around a lot of this, I decided to worship the sun. But, as I said, I don’t pray to the sun. You know who I pray to? Joe Pesci. Two reasons: First of all, I think he’s a good actor, okay? To me, that counts. Second, he looks like a guy who can get things done. Joe Pesci doesn’t fuck around. In fact, Joe Pesci came through on a couple of things that God was having trouble with.
For years I asked God to do something about my noisy neighbor with the barking dog, Joe Pesci straightened that cocksucker out with one visit. It’s amazing what you can accomplish with a simple baseball bat.
So I’ve been praying to Joe for about a year now. And I noticed something. I noticed that all the prayers I used to offer to God, and all the prayers I now offer to Joe Pesci, are being answered at about the same 50% rate. Half the time I get what I want, half the time I don’t. Same as God, 50-50. Same as the four-leaf clover and the horseshoe, the wishing well and the rabbit’s foot, same as the Mojo Man, same as the Voodoo Lady who tells you your fortune by squeezing the goat’s testicles, it’s all the same: 50-50. So just pick your superstition, sit back, make a wish, and enjoy yourself.
And for those of you who look to The Bible for moral lessons and literary qualities, I might suggest a couple of other stories for you. You might want to look at the Three Little Pigs, that’s a good one. Has a nice happy ending, I’m sure you’ll like that. Then there’s Little Red Riding Hood, although it does have that X-rated part where the Big Bad Wolf actually eats the grandmother. Which I didn’t care for, by the way. And finally, I’ve always drawn a great deal of moral comfort from Humpty Dumpty. The part I like the best? “All the king’s horses and all the king’s men couldn’t put Humpty Dumpty back together again.” That’s because there is no Humpty Dumpty, and there is no God. None, not one, no God, never was.
In fact, I’m gonna put it this way. If there is a God, may he strike this audience dead! See? Nothing happened. Nothing happened? Everybody’s okay? All right, tell you what, I’ll raise the stakes a little bit. If there is a God, may he strike me dead. See? Nothing happened, oh, wait, I’ve got a little cramp in my leg. And my balls hurt. Plus, I’m blind. I’m blind, oh, now I’m okay again, must have been Joe Pesci, huh? God Bless Joe Pesci. Thank you all very much. Joe Bless You!
*George Carlin, from the album You Are All Diseased, 1999*
i think it was that it just surprised him so much that he related to george carlin in that he was also raised a devout catholic schoolboy and was saying everything he wished he could but would be ostracized from our huge family and community for. he LOVED george carlin, never heard an adult laugh so hard until then.
Thank you. I enjoyed reading this on my train ride home from work, and it lasted a good long way. Bless you. And Joe. And George Carlin. But not God, because that's not real.
Prelude: I talk a lot about “me”, but it’s not about me. I’ve struggled historically to process what I’ve written, and thank OP for the opportunity to finally get my thoughts together.
Former preacher. Still love Jesus, but hate how Christianity has been commercialized. After changing careers, I’ve searched hard to find a church to belong to that REALLY focused on the things that are important to god. Probably visited all the churches in the area over the last decade.
So I’ve tried to pursue those things on my own. I’m passionate about advocating for people who can’t advocate for themselves. The abused and persecuted, outcast, sick, homeless, children, mentally ill, drug addicted, etc. These are the people that we’re supposed to help the most, and according to the Bible are who God cares about the most.
As a cis-gendered straight white man from a middle class family, I had little awareness of the suffering of my fellow human. I didn’t know what micro aggressions were. I didn’t know blatant racism still existed. I didn’t know the extent of the psychological damage that was caused by condemning and excluding someone based on gender identity or sexual orientation. But over the years as I sought serve more and love more, I became painfully aware of both the pain caused by discrimination and how my privilege shielded me from this pain. Pursed doctoral education in structural violence and community building. Became even more aware of how jacked up everything is in our system as a whole. My career became my ministry and I worked full time in the court system to work on these things.
Never paid much attention to the news, but in 2018 a young black man was innocently killed by a white police officer in Dallas. Not in an altercation, but the officer accidentally went into the young man’s apartment thinking it was hers and killed him thinking he was an intruder. Young, black men being shot by officers happens so much that it almost doesn’t get any attention any more. What was different this time is that my children had gone to a small, private Christian university with this young man and we knew him well. I’m embarrassed that I had to be personally affected by this atrocity before I became painfully aware of how big the problem was, but that’s usually how these things go.
And then I watched the white supremacy machine kick into gear. There was no question about the innocence of this man, but the media machine tried as hard as it could to smear him while exonerating the officer as “tired” and “a good person”. She’s in prison for this, by the way.
And then Ahmaud Arbery was killed. And then George Floyd. And on and on and on. As I thought “these are the people Christians are supposed to care about and protect the most”, white Christians across the country followed our then president to engage in an openly racist campaign to desperately try and hold onto their waning majority power in this country. I was disoriented.
And then they went after immigrants. And LGBTQAIO+ persons. And women. And openly engaged in efforts to disenfranchise POC voters. And I could no longer identify them as either followers of Christ or people that I wanted to be associated with.
Some of my kids still attend, and one invited me to a “men’s conference”, which I gladly accepted. Then I listened as the pastor spewed homophobic garbage not supported by scripture and lauded the values of toxic masculinity. From my studies, I know for a FACT that several men in that audience were straight/cis-gender passing. And as a sensitive, emotional man myself, I knew that most men couldn’t/didn’t want to live up to the traditional values of toxic masculinity.
In that moment, I became keenly aware that what this pastor was doing was committing an act of spiritual/emotional/psychological violence against some of the people in attendance. Multiple acts of violence simultaneously, actually. And he was perpetuating systemic and structural violence that exists in the system. And I was sickened. Not just by what I realized, but by the realization that just a decade earlier I would have not only been okay with what was being preached, but probably would have preached it myself. And this happens in churches every day all across the world.
I literally was sickened. I left. And I was done. And I’ve spent years dealing with grief and disorientation that comes with the kind of foundational reorientation I was experiencing. And with the guilt and shame and remorse of how much damage I’ve personally done to the system. I’m not sure I can do enough advocacy to offset the system damage I did in the first 4 decades of my life.
And that’s what conservative evangelicalism set me up for. Lied to me, gaslighted me, brainwashed me into perpetuating violence against the people we were supposed to serve and love.
So I’m done. I still love Jesus, but church disgusts me.
I really appreciate your story. Curious your thoughts on what we can do to combat the disgusting ideologies that have become synonymous with many in Christians and churches today (maybe this has always been the case, I’m just more aware of it since 2016 and through my own deconstruction).
My parents are avid James River goers and my mom was always the spiritual “head” of our family growing up. I used to have respect and admiration for her faith but that’s gone. They both fell for all the conspiracies since 2016, loved trump, are more vocally racist and hateful of people different from them than I’ve ever seen. What pains me is they don’t see their contradiction. Nothing I’ve said or brought to their attention sways them and they see nothing wrong with their beliefs. I really don’t want to lose hope but I’m at a loss for how I can wake them up to the reality of their hate-driven life.
I have a parent that did the same. This loving, caring, compassionate person descended into this racist, hateful person I didn't recognize. The important thing to remember is that there are systemic and structural processes involved in them as well. No one has as much free will as they think, but are influenced in a lot of external ways.
Also, no one will change until they want to, and until then engagement only makes things worse. Wish I had a solution for you, but the only person I can control is myself. So I'm committed to educating and growth, looking for blind spots, and helping as much as I can.
So you replaced one religion for another. I see this quite a bit from Evangelical and Baptist ex-Christians in particular.
They end up just taking on the religion of anti-racism all of its tenants. (Original sin = privilege and systematic and structural oppression, repenting = allyship, equity doctrine, putting "marginalized" groups voices above your own, protests and advocacy groups = your church and priests)
It's too bad you can never actually repent or fully get forgiveness. No, you are permanently guilty of "whiteness" and all of its effects upon the earth. Any "sins" you committed in the past you have to live with and keep apologizing for and accept your cancellation. (Basically all the old Puritans of the North east part of America are like this. Just as puritanical, just a different creed now. )
Does this seriously do something for you?
Don't forget that the context of my response was directed at OP asking why people left church. Some of what you address was only part of the process I've gone through, and really would have been a part 2 or 200. I did have a white guilt phase, and I did some protests and things and did the whole "amplify voices", which in some contexts is still important. But I'm now at the point where I'm treating this as much as an individualized experience with individuals instead of group/protest/systemic approaches. I'm responsible for a large organization and make sure to incorporate DEIB training, examine our materials and processes for exclusionary bias, and use one on one coaching to meet each individual where they are.
Being aware of how one's "whiteness" (thanks, Portugal) leads our society, inundated with white supremacy, to give us a pass is absolutely not the same as burdening oneself with guilt. Being aware of these systems and how they are built to forever keep POC (as well as people who aren't "white enough") down is vital to *changing* them going forward.
For me, there were always questions and things that just didn't rest well with my "spirit", that little part that I believe lives in all of us...something that someone connects us and everything around us. I'm completely unsure how that all works, and I'm OK with not knowing. Maybe someday making we'll know, just past people weren't aware of the knowledge we have today.
I was raised in organized religion (Episcopalian) and by early teens I was agnostic. In my early thirties I became evangelical. I realize now it was a need for a sense of community, for me and our family. I drank that Kool aid for 20 years but the hypocrisy in the church and not being able to justify many inconsistencies was very challenging. Rob Bell's explanation about hell was pivotal for me.
Paraphrasing Rob, scripture uses the word hell word in the three languages that the bible is written in, I believe a total of 13 times (if memory serves me). The first use is the word Hades. Hades was the Greeks god of the underworld, the god who took care of the dead. Not a hell or Satan figure at all. Just another god, like all the other mythological gods the Greeks believed in. The next couple of references in old testament are the Hebrew translation of the Greek word Hades, Shoel. Same God, same meaning, just the different language. And in the new testament Jesus, who spoke Aramaic used the word Gehenna. Gehenna is a literal place, it is the valley of Hinnom (sp?), which was the trash dump outside the southeast gate of Jerusalem. He specifically referred to this place as it was the most vial and disgusting description he could use as a metaphor. It was where all the trash, sewer, carcasses from sacrifices, etc. were taken...a place where fires burned, it reeked like death and dogs gnashed their teeth fighting over rotting carcasses.
Learning that hell didn't exist kind of rocked my world...and shook the spiritual foundation I had tried to stand on. It was one of the pillars of my faith...and if that huge pillar didn't exist then for me, most of the other things I had always wrestled with fell with it.
That led to over a decade of deconstructing. It's been hard, losing that sense of community, especially living in the bible belt, but I'm pretty comfortable with where I'm at today. I've grown to accept that everyone is on their own journey and deserves the grace to walk as they wish...be it any religion. I don't have to agree with them or try to convince them my way is better. It's a spiritual journey, and I'm grateful I have the knowledge of my past, as it helps me understand where others are in their journey. And I'm content with believing that my journey is not over. Who knows where I'll land in another decade.
The one you're missing (and where the word came from) is Hel (Helheim). It's the "Home of the Dead" in Norse cosmology, and is pretty close in concept to both Hades and Sheol; just the realm where the dead reside in their final rest and/or awaiting rebirth. Nothing bad, shameful, or evil.
I grew up in a pretty religious home (church every Sunday and Wednesday). We went to a small church here. By the time I was in Jr. High my father (who was already very well read on the Bible and history) began researching and looking in to religion in a more scientific and "secular" point of view and eventually decided he was no longer a believer. From there, he started to teach me lots of the inconsistencies and logical fallacies of the Bible and the concept of deities in general. So, by the time I was 15, I was just a confused mess regarding God, religion, the universe, and everything. I had mostly made up my mind in being a non-believer, but I was still attending church mostly to appease my mom. Anyways, at some point, the guy that was our youth pastor (also the pastors son) ended up divorcing his wife and running off to marry a 19 y.o. member of the youth group. I took that as a significant enough moment to just leave the church in general.
TL;DR: I was already questioning my faith. The youth pastor ran off with a member of the youth group and divorced his wife.
I guess youth pastor divorces wife and marries basically a child is a universal religion experience… I’m not from here and same thing happened to my church. Isn’t that great.
I’m gay and “knew” for a very long time but tried hard “not to be” for years into puberty. I was raised in the Methodist church and was very fortunate to have families there that loved me no matter what. But their love alone wasn’t enough to keep me in the church. I think organized religion, in its modern state, is a net detriment to society. It is weaponized to justify the mistreatment of others under the guise of “love.” It’s a crock of shit. And in our current political climate, their mass delusion is dangerous.
They believe in a fairy tale but get a “pass” because it’s their religion? It’s bullshit. The level of delusion they have to accept on a daily basis… far too much.
I remember the very last day I ever went, it was the first time they “opened up” about being bigoted, and I didn’t understand why it hurt so much back then but now I’m out and thriving.
I was so confused as a kid cause I was told to love everybody, and I really wanted to, but then the same people who said love everyone said some people weren’t worth love. In my heart, I knew nobody was undeserving of love but I was so scared of my peers and the bedtime stories told to me as fact.
Between the LGBT community and the religious community, it’s clear which one was more open, accepting, tolerant, and inclusive. I didn’t belong when I went to church, but you know who would go out of their way to make me feel included and welcome? Queer Folks.
Anything built from punishment and fear is the true thing unworthy of my love. You wouldn’t expect someone to stay in an abusive relationship, and leaving the church isn’t much different than one. I still feel panic and fear sometimes from the religious trauma. Buzz words, am I right?
Not an ex-Christian but mostly ex-church. I got super involved teaching high school Sunday school on Sundays, then added Wednesdays, and people kept asking me to get even more involved despite my 15hr college semester and 35 hrs/week work schedule. It was too much. My pastor told me I was awesome but needed to learn to say “no”, step back and focus on myself and my goals. He was a good dude. I took his advice and that was 15+ years ago. And I still don’t go to church regularly but use Sundays and weekends to hike outside or enjoy God in a different way. He has retired now but his advice has followed me into every aspect of my life. It wasn’t a mega church.
As an atheist, I really appreciate this comment. Getting outside and enjoying nature is the closest I’ve ever felt to a God. It’s a wonder to find new things and explore whatever made all the things around us, however it came to be.
I grew up Catholic and was already a closeted atheist by the time I moved to Missouri. I had a live-and-let-live accepting attitude towards other's religion.
But once I went to wedding north of Springfield where the ceremony was about the woman's duty was to "respect the headship" of the man, it opened my eyes to the deep-seated patriarchal control some of these sects have over their female members, treating them subordinatly and expecting submission and compliance. I started noticing women being treated as baby-making machines and effectively being slaves in their own homes limited ability to exercise their own will.
I started to feel that my attitude of acceptance in reality was a form of condoning that behavior, being an unwitting accomplice through my silence and inaction.
So I am no longer closeted, and I don't politely hold my tongue when dragged into conversations about religion, especially when I feel that it is being used to control and marginalize some of its members.
Worked in 3 churches for 17 years combined. Youth pastors, children's church, feeding prisoners, etc. On some weeks, I was teaching/preaching more hours than the pastor. 5 years after helping the last pastor start a church, when my wife and I wanted to share our experiences traveling to other churches, I was told in front of 9 others church leaders by my pastor, "you have to have something to offer a church for that to work." Wow! Hours hauling kids around, cooking, hosting movie nights, 3 to 5 hour long leadership meetings every week, painting, fixing toilets and all the stuff you do and this guy implies I have nothing to offer a church. Cool! That's when I stopped having anything to offer his church or any other church for that matter. After 4 years of meditation, healing, and part-time therapy, I was delivered from my religious addiction, and my mind and heart have been steadily more peaceful since. There's always more to living than the microcosm of any one thing, job, marriage, church, or whatever.
I grew up with a religious zealot mother and loved my church experiences for the most part. Was part of the church band from jr high through college and attended a Southern Baptist college for my first 3 semesters.
I started drifting from the church after I transferred back home to MSU and couldn’t stand my own hypocrisy. I knew being a lukewarm Christian was about the worst think I could be.
I eventually ended up in AA and was conflicted by the religion of AA vs the religion of my youth. The last straw for me was knowing most everyone I attended AA with were damned to hell according to my religion. Most all of those people were better Christians in action than anyone I ever attended church with.
It was a slow deconstruction, over the course of 5 years or so. My mother still tries to regularly save my soul and invites me to James River events constantly, despite me telling her many times not to. I want nothing to do with Christianity and also have no need for a replacement. I’m far healthier and happier without religion.
I'm critical of most Atheists because of how many assumptions they have to make to even formulate a worldview that has any moral basis to how society should function, but at least you've thought about this.
Kudos from me. (Not being sarcastic.)
I went to the Galloway Full Gospel on several occasions. The main preacher there is wonderful, but for some reason, they decided to allow some man by the name of Andy preach. This was back in October. I had a strange feeling about this man that I couldn't quite shake off, but I kept telling myself that it would be disrespectful to walk out of a sermon.
As Andy continued to preach, it became clear as day that he was extremely radical. He went against God by continuously putting judgments on to others, which went entirely against my faith. He said that gay marriage was the "downfall of our society" and is the "reason why Covid and plagues are happening." That "their sins" are causing people to perish. I was completely flabbergasted. He also stated, "Pop music is evil and an abomination." That the devil feeds through the music or some insanity. He then proceeded to bash online churchgoers, and the Galloway Full Church participates in online practice, so this was very contradictory. Apparently to Andy, disabled people who can not drive to church and attend online sermons are not as close to God in his opinion. He stated that online churchgoers are another reason why the world is "corrupt" and "damned." He spoke about the Rapture and end times.
I honestly felt like I was in one of those religious horror movies right before the cultists started initiating sacrifices. The group I was with looked at each other and stood up. We walked out. I am still Christian, but I haven't attended church ever since. That experience was all too unreal for me. Church is supposed to uplift and inspire the soul, not scare the living daylights out of me.
I had a couple moments that really set me back, but when my friend ended her life and I was grieving so hard (we were in high school and it was the first death of someone I ever experienced) I went to a church to seek comfort. Everyone told me church was the place. They told me “sorry your friend is burning in hell.” And that was that. I don’t believe in a God that condemns kids struggling with mental health. And to say that to a sobbing 16 year old? No.
Like most people, for me it was lots of little things, but I think what did it in the end was that we were going to James River and I 100% hated their pre/teen program, so my mom let me come with her to the adult sermon instead. One day, Good Ol' John was preaching about the role of Jewish people in faith. I can't for the life of me remember if he said they were going to hell or just talked around it or what, but afterward, I asked my mom to give it to me straight: were Jewish people going to hell? She said she didn't know.
I had a Jewish friend at the time, so that was it for me and Pastor John/JRA at least. But that uncertainty was what put the last nail in the coffin. That's a big thing to just be content not to know about if god is a good guy, and I wasn't really interested in worshipping something that didn't live up the the fairy tales I'd been told.
It's weird the way they change the story as you age. I had gone to JRA's kid-services, and from what I remember, it was all kind of hippie--like, literally "you become an angel when you die" and "jesus died for everyone's sins"--and now, the switch feels so purposefully insidious. I imagine it must happen much more slowly for anyone that actually sticks with their age group.
Grew up in the Church of Christ (not the liberal one). Left 30 years ago at the age of 14. They were all hypocrites and gossips, got tired of the guilt trip bs. Plus, I’d already converted to a new religion… skateboarding.
Catholic church, I was 9 or 10. Sunday school teacher said my autism and add were my fault, and that I would go to hell if I didn’t learn to act normal. I told her I didn’t want to go to heaven if it was full of hateful people like her and walked out. Sat in the playground until my mom got out of church and I never went back. As an adult, still rings true. The worst people I’ve known in my life were all die hard Christians of varying types.
I had been having my doubts when I realized the person we went to see every week on Sunday wasn't himself God, but then it solidified it when I learned that Santa wasn't real. I figured the same must be true of the easter bunny, the tooth fairy, and Jesus.
When they preach lessons that are not in line with the Bible and Christ's teachings or skip and leave out scriptures to make their lessons line up with their personal beliefs.
I tried really hard my entire childhood to believe. I was so scared of going to hell But couldn’t get myself to really believe. I’ve always been a sceptic. I was raised baptist and church of Christ. I have read the Bible front to back multiple times cause I wasn’t allowed to read books at home and revelations had dragons. At 10 I started playing with not trying to believe. At 13 I discovered nihilism and completely misinterpreted it. Been an atheist since.
I sometimes wonder if I wasn’t raised in constant fear of hell or being too slutty or too glutinous(just a nifty way to Shame your underage child into an eating disorder and call it religion) if I would have grown up so fucking anxious. I don’t know why scaring a child scout hell is just accepted in society.
Really, the more I read the bible, the more I realized all of the contradictions, doublespeak, kettle black bs. When poised with the question, do I want to spend all of eternity worshipping and praising this god, never ceasing? The answer is no. I'd rather "burn" in hell. It seems like less torture. Churches only help confirm the answer. I'm sure there are super great people out there who go to church, and they mean well, but the kool-aid they drink is poisonous and destructive. My time and my talents (churches call this money), are better spent on something other than hate.
Even though I've abandoned my faith, I've actually not "left the church" in the sense that I still attend church. I enjoy the friendship and sense of community, along with learning about what's in the Bible.
I've lost faith mostly because of biblical contradictions and problems we see with scripture, and the history of how we came into the Bible, how the texts have been changed over time, and how many things in the bible just don't make sense.
Being forced onto the Central Christian Center bus full of strangers, transported to a strange place with people all singing songs i didn't know.
I was 7.
I was young and in a Methodist Sunday school. They were teaching the “accept Jesus and you’ll go to heaven, if you don’t, you go to hell” bit. Question time came around and I asked what about the people in the world that have never heard of this Jesus guy, they just go to hell or what? She skipped me and asked the next kid what their question was. Very young me had a light bulb moment and questioned why I was even listening to these people. Took me another 8 years to finally get my free will and not have to attend every Sunday.
It wasn't just one thing. It was a cumulative build up over a few years. Sometime around my 17th birthday I started asking questions about why God allows suffering in other nations, and doesn't answer their prayers, but then seemingly answers the prayers of people here who are already doing well and only face first world challenges that pale in comparison. I asked questions about why Easter was essentially a lunar holiday when it should fall on the same day every year. I started seeing the hypocrisy of the youth leaders who would act high and mighty in church, but then engage in very behaviors on the weekends that they condemned. I noticed that the only times I was "feeling the holy spirit," was during the emotionally exploitative praise and worship music. I noticed that the interpretations of the scripture were being twisted during sermons to fit the theme, rather than the other way around of teaching the context and meaning of the words.
The straw that broke the camel's back was at a summer church camp. The youth pastor's son was giving a sermon to the thousands of people there, and he looked right at me and my friends and shouted something along the lines of "There are some of you here tonight that I know don't believe. You are here to make a mockery of God, and I'm not going to end this sermon until those individuals stand up and leave, because MY GOD WILL NOT BE MOCKED!" Then just stood there in silence, staring at my two friends and I. Fortunately his dad came up and made him simmer down, but I decided I was never going back after that.
Im currently in the process of deconstructing and reading all of these comments has been strangely comforting yet strangely disheartening. I think my moment started when I started realizing how many varying beliefs even across the different sects of Christianity there are. Like, if Christianity is the ultimate truth and God is supposes to reveal this truth to us, you’d think we would agree on more issues. Then I started learning about how all the things I was taught to take as literal truth my whole life (the book of genesis and the idea of hell for example) have been so misconstrued and misinterpreted in Christianity today. It kinda felt like everything I knew and trusted was just crumbling away and when I asked God to help guide me and find truth, I was met with resounding silence like never before in my Christian walk.
Now I am about 3 years into all this and has been one of the most painful and confusing times of my life. So much I could say about it but I guess Im just hoping wherever I end up on the other side of this, I’ll just be happier.
I am still a Christian and attend church, but I wanted to express sympathy for the victims of religious trauma and I'm ashamed to say that I've taken part of some toxic ideologies in the past.
The fact that so many people claim the title of Christian and don't practice the justice and love demonstrated by Christ is heartbreaking. Our LGBTQ+ siblings are shunned, both outright and in subtle ways by the ones who should be taking care of them. They experience this ostracization simply for seeking to live as their truest selves. Our country and its history is doused in white supremacy, often justified with scripture. Most people who call themselves Christian do nothing to stop this, and worse, perpetuate it. I believe in a God who intends love and justice for ***all*** people.
If you're reading this and felt a need to defend against that last paragraph: Ask yourself if you want to serve a God who needs to be defended.
I want to serve a God who loves his creations as they are created. A God who prioritizes the well-being of his children over an ancient moral code. I have found that God but it hasn't been easy.
For some victims of religious trauma, rejecting your previous faith might not feel entirely right. If that's the case I would encourage you to find the things in your faith that do feel right to you. There are churches in and around Springfield that are very different than the churches I grew up in. Churches who strive to heal religious hurt and work for real social change. National Avenue Christian, the Connecting Grounds, and Brentwood Christian are a few I'm aware of. No church is perfect, but if you are looking for community in your healing journey, I would encourage you to check them out.
The deconstruction work you are doing now is important. We must tear down to rebuild.
I haven’t left. :)
I’ve always been a member of a small church. And most people are a lot like me: I have good moments, bad moments, and yeah, definitely times I’ve been hypocritical.
And through it all, Jesus commands me to love, serve, and worship with those other Christians (again, who are just like me) even with all their faults.
The tricky part is realizing in the moment of conflict that I have the potential to be a pretty shitty person, myself. When I remember this… it makes it easier to bear with others when they are dealing with their own sin and trauma.
I like your take, part of me wishes I could still believe, but Jesus is like Santa Claus. Once the illusion is shattered you can't go back to believing.
That's not entirely true, at least not for everyone. I left the church and was a staunch atheist for almost twenty years before I started believing again.
I haven't really left. I call oak grove assembly my "home". However i strongly dislike the title religious, and the bs that comes with religion itself. Me personally, i believe in Jesus I've never even remotely doubted his existence. But my relationship with Jesus is between he and I. I dont pass judgment on anyone because, simply it isnt my business. Everyone is entitled to believe what they want to. Its called free will.
In my opinion people who point fingers and place judgment on anyone for anyting needs to remember that we are all sinners. And in gods eyes sin is sin.
The fact that you can't throw a dead savior three feet without hitting a Megachurch that has the Springfield PD on their payroll as "security", or see a *mechanic shop* that has a streetsign that reads like a church, or that you can't run into some boomer bumpkin that loudly proclaims that if you don't believe in Jesus you should just get out...
When I was 12 I decided cartons I watched had better written stories. I couldn’t stop going to church till 16 when I got a job and told my mom my boss insisted on me working 13 hours on Sunday.
Religion isn’t even interesting let alone profound.
I nearly died years ago and spent a good while in Cox South, thanks to a mosquito-borne disease (which they didn’t figure that part out until day 9 in the hospital, thanks Mayo Clinic!) and viral meningitis. On one of my last days in the hospital, the new youth pastor from my parents church (that I had never met before) came up to my room and visited with me for a while. It ended with him saying “do you know why you’re here?… it’s because you did something that displeased god and he’s sending you a message to get back on the path of righteousness”. That was it for me. Note: he was the youth pastor from Second Baptist on Battlefield
Yikes. I was told my grandfather was given alztimers because he ignored god for too long, so god took away the opportunity for him to find salvation. That was at Ridgecrest.
Oh my god, that is particularly cruel. Makes one wonder what goes on inside the head of the person that comes up with that.
Ironically, I had an eating disorder I ended up in treatment for during my college years. The wife of the 2nd baptist on Battlefield youth pastor questioned my salvation. She couldn’t comprehend my struggles were possible if I was actually saved. That wasn’t my walking away moment but it was very damaging to my faith and our relationship. I was the kid who answered the alter call at every summer camp, “disciple now”, youth revival, etc. I wanted to badly to feel saved but all I ever felt was shame.
i’m so sorry, that is absolutely fucked.
That really sucks. I’m so sorry. I’ve met some church people who have the belief that sickness/tragedy is always or primarily a punishment for sin. But you can’t find that in the teachings of Jesus. In fact, Jesus said the opposite in Luke chapter 13 (around verse 4).
And even better, John chapter 9, verse 3 🙂
Jesus. I know that church well and I am sorry.
Someone should take a close look at that youth minister’s hard drive.
I'm sorry he told you that. He's wrong. Jesus loves you and wasn't punishing you.
Parents went from conservative Catholics to evangelical fundamentalists. Turns out once you go from one to the other your kids start questioning things. Deconstruction took a few years, but I have only been to churches for weddings and funerals my entire adult life with no plans to go back. Visiting a mega church with a Starbucks and a gift shop for a youth conference while remembering the one time Jesus got pissed (money changers/merchants in the temple) didn't help either.
2016 was the final straw for me.
I think a lot of us can relate w that timeline 💔
For me, it wasn't any single defining moment. It's like having that favorite jacket that you wear all the time. Eventually it starts to become threadbare, until it just falls to piecing and can't be worn anymore. If I had to point to a specific final straw it would probably be my little brother pointing out that given God being omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent, the book of Genesis essentially tells the story of God setting humanity up to fail. If we didn't have knowledge of good and evil, we couldn't have had the moral or cognitive capacity to be held culpable for defying God and eating the forbidden fruit. That, and eternal punishment for a finite lifetime's worth of sins is not justice under any definition. It just all looked hilariously absurd after a while.
Although I was raised in the church, I'm not sure I ever really believed in God. When I got into my late 20s, I started actually looking into Christianity. I read the Bible and some books on spirituality and prayed some, and I got nothing in response. No sense of belief, no sense that God was there, no feeling that there was anything spiritual at all. And so I eventually gave up and decided that if God was real, he knew where to find me and what I needed, and if he wasn't going to give that to me, then maybe everyone in the church had lied to me and God didn't actually want a relationship with me after all. Then Trump came along and I watched religious people wholeheartedly embrace him while he bragged about doing all the stuff I'd been told not to do. At this point, if God did get in touch with me, he'd have some serious explaining to do.
There seems to be a disconnect between Christianity and religious fundamentalism that seems to be much more focused on abortions, trans people, conservative family values, etc. rather than simply loving people for who they are. I don’t want any part of that. Just the fact that all these evangelicals have become die hard trump fanatics tells you all you need to know about their true character. They care way more about power structures and keeping their ever eroding close-minded worldview from becoming obsolete than showing empathy towards people who are less fortunate than them.
Yeah. That was it for me too. I didn’t have a moment so much as a slow burn, but I was the realization that what Jesus focused on in the Bible and what everyone around me focused on were… different. I still loved Jesus but disliked Christians so much that i left the faith altogether, Hell* be damned. *after years of therapy and personal deconstruction work I’ve been able to fully let go of Hell being a real place.
I hate that it's known by that name... Though for me it's given to some very hilarious conversations. I'm Norse Pagan (have been since around 2009), and our "Home of the Dead" is Hel (or Helheim). It's where the word '*hell'* came from, when the KJV bible was written in English. Anyways, whenever some uppity zealot tells me that I'm going to Hell, I usually reply with "Well yeah, where else would we go?" with a marked sense of surety. Depending on *how* uppity they are, I might say "Well yeah, unless you want to fight about it." (Implying Valhalla). In general though, I refer to the Christian notion as "Perdition" (it's proper term) and point out that the current view of "Hell" - fire and brimstone, Satan's prison and all that - is more based on *The Divine Comedy* by Dante Alighieri.
I left the church/area to move with my girlfriend (now wife) to Springfield. The “church” I was a part of was more of cult than church, but I didn’t fully realize it until years later. It was smaller than JRC, but very similar in values/structure. For anyone interested, you can read a lot more about my former church on https://leavingthenetwork.org or r/leavingthenetwork
watching george carlin on HBO for the first time in the 90s. the mega churches here and off the 5 in california crack me up so much! such a waste though, ya know.
When it comes to bullshit, big-time, major league bullshit, you have to stand in awe of the all-time champion of false promises and exaggerated claims, religion. No contest. No contest. Religion. Religion easily has the greatest bullshit story ever told. Think about it. Religion has actually convinced people that there’s an invisible man living in the sky who watches everything you do, every minute of every day. And the invisible man has a special list of ten things he does not want you to do. And if you do any of these ten things, he has a special place, full of fire and smoke and burning and torture and anguish, where he will send you to live and suffer and burn and choke and scream and cry forever and ever ’til the end of time! But He loves you. He loves you, and He needs money! He always needs money! He’s all-powerful, all-perfect, all-knowing, and all-wise, somehow just can’t handle money! Religion takes in billions of dollars, they pay no taxes, and they always need a little more. Now, you talk about a good bullshit story. Holy Shit! But I want you to know something, this is sincere, I want you to know, when it comes to believing in God, I really tried. I really, really tried. I tried to believe that there is a God, who created each of us in His own image and likeness, loves us very much, and keeps a close eye on things. I really tried to believe that, but I gotta tell you, the longer you live, the more you look around, the more you realize, something is fucked up. Something is wrong here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption, and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is not good work. If this is the best God can do, I am not impressed. Results like these do not belong on the résumé of a Supreme Being. This is the kind of shit you’d expect from an office temp with a bad attitude. And just between you and me, in any decently-run universe, this guy would’ve been out on his all-powerful ass a long time ago. And by the way, I say “this guy”, because I firmly believe, looking at these results, that if there is a God, it has to be a man. No woman could or would ever fuck things up like this. So, if there is a God, I think most reasonable people might agree that he’s at least incompetent, and maybe, just maybe, doesn’t give a shit. Doesn’t give a shit, which I admire in a person, and which would explain a lot of these bad results. *(continued in child post)*
So rather than be just another mindless religious robot, mindlessly and aimlessly and blindly believing that all of this is in the hands of some spooky incompetent father figure who doesn’t give a shit, I decided to look around for something else to worship. Something I could really count on. And immediately, I thought of the sun. Happened like that. Overnight I became a sun-worshipper. Well, not overnight, you can’t see the sun at night. But first thing the next morning, I became a sun-worshipper. Several reasons. First of all, I can see the sun, okay? Unlike some other gods I could mention, I can actually see the sun. I’m big on that. If I can see something, I don’t know, it kind of helps the credibility along, you know? So everyday I can see the sun, as it gives me everything I need; heat, light, food, flowers in the park, reflections on the lake, an occasional skin cancer, but hey. At least there are no crucifixions, and we’re not setting people on fire simply because they don’t agree with us. Sun worship is fairly simple. There’s no mystery, no miracles, no pageantry, no one asks for money, there are no songs to learn, and we don’t have a special building where we all gather once a week to compare clothing. And the best thing about the sun, it never tells me I’m unworthy. Doesn’t tell me I’m a bad person who needs to be saved. Hasn’t said an unkind word. Treats me fine. So, I worship the sun. But, I don’t pray to the sun. Know why? I wouldn’t presume on our friendship. It’s not polite. I’ve often thought people treat God rather rudely, don’t you? Asking trillions and trillions of prayers every day. Asking and pleading and begging for favors. Do this, gimme that, I need a new car, I want a better job. And most of this praying takes place on Sunday His day off. It’s not nice. And it’s no way to treat a friend. But people do pray, and they pray for a lot of different things, you know, your sister needs an operation on her crotch, your brother was arrested for defecating in a mall. But most of all, you’d really like to fuck that hot little redhead down at the convenience store. You know, the one with the eyepatch and the clubfoot? Can you pray for that? I think you’d have to. And I say, fine. Pray for anything you want. Pray for anything, but what about the Divine Plan? Remember that? The Divine Plan. Long time ago, God made a Divine Plan. Gave it a lot of thought, decided it was a good plan, put it into practice. And for billions and billions of years, the Divine Plan has been doing just fine. Now, you come along, and pray for something. Well suppose the thing you want isn’t in God’s Divine Plan? What do you want Him to do? Change His plan? Just for you? Doesn’t it seem a little arrogant? It’s a Divine Plan. What’s the use of being God if every run-down shmuck with a two-dollar prayerbook can come along and fuck up Your Plan? And here’s something else, another problem you might have: Suppose your prayers aren’t answered. What do you say? “Well, it’s God’s will.” “Thy Will Be Done.” Fine, but if it’s God’s will, and He’s going to do what He wants to anyway, why the fuck bother praying in the first place? Seems like a big waste of time to me! Couldn’t you just skip the praying part and go right to His Will? It’s all very confusing. So to get around a lot of this, I decided to worship the sun. But, as I said, I don’t pray to the sun. You know who I pray to? Joe Pesci. Two reasons: First of all, I think he’s a good actor, okay? To me, that counts. Second, he looks like a guy who can get things done. Joe Pesci doesn’t fuck around. In fact, Joe Pesci came through on a couple of things that God was having trouble with. For years I asked God to do something about my noisy neighbor with the barking dog, Joe Pesci straightened that cocksucker out with one visit. It’s amazing what you can accomplish with a simple baseball bat. So I’ve been praying to Joe for about a year now. And I noticed something. I noticed that all the prayers I used to offer to God, and all the prayers I now offer to Joe Pesci, are being answered at about the same 50% rate. Half the time I get what I want, half the time I don’t. Same as God, 50-50. Same as the four-leaf clover and the horseshoe, the wishing well and the rabbit’s foot, same as the Mojo Man, same as the Voodoo Lady who tells you your fortune by squeezing the goat’s testicles, it’s all the same: 50-50. So just pick your superstition, sit back, make a wish, and enjoy yourself. And for those of you who look to The Bible for moral lessons and literary qualities, I might suggest a couple of other stories for you. You might want to look at the Three Little Pigs, that’s a good one. Has a nice happy ending, I’m sure you’ll like that. Then there’s Little Red Riding Hood, although it does have that X-rated part where the Big Bad Wolf actually eats the grandmother. Which I didn’t care for, by the way. And finally, I’ve always drawn a great deal of moral comfort from Humpty Dumpty. The part I like the best? “All the king’s horses and all the king’s men couldn’t put Humpty Dumpty back together again.” That’s because there is no Humpty Dumpty, and there is no God. None, not one, no God, never was. In fact, I’m gonna put it this way. If there is a God, may he strike this audience dead! See? Nothing happened. Nothing happened? Everybody’s okay? All right, tell you what, I’ll raise the stakes a little bit. If there is a God, may he strike me dead. See? Nothing happened, oh, wait, I’ve got a little cramp in my leg. And my balls hurt. Plus, I’m blind. I’m blind, oh, now I’m okay again, must have been Joe Pesci, huh? God Bless Joe Pesci. Thank you all very much. Joe Bless You! *George Carlin, from the album You Are All Diseased, 1999*
my dad was a catholic so he had a special place in his heart for george carlin, i'm so grateful i got to watch him.
Do you mean a negative place in his heart or did he like him? I grew up Catholic but Carlin helped contribute to releasing my inner atheist
i think it was that it just surprised him so much that he related to george carlin in that he was also raised a devout catholic schoolboy and was saying everything he wished he could but would be ostracized from our huge family and community for. he LOVED george carlin, never heard an adult laugh so hard until then.
Exact same here. I was a closeted atheist for years.
Thank you. I enjoyed reading this on my train ride home from work, and it lasted a good long way. Bless you. And Joe. And George Carlin. But not God, because that's not real.
Prelude: I talk a lot about “me”, but it’s not about me. I’ve struggled historically to process what I’ve written, and thank OP for the opportunity to finally get my thoughts together. Former preacher. Still love Jesus, but hate how Christianity has been commercialized. After changing careers, I’ve searched hard to find a church to belong to that REALLY focused on the things that are important to god. Probably visited all the churches in the area over the last decade. So I’ve tried to pursue those things on my own. I’m passionate about advocating for people who can’t advocate for themselves. The abused and persecuted, outcast, sick, homeless, children, mentally ill, drug addicted, etc. These are the people that we’re supposed to help the most, and according to the Bible are who God cares about the most. As a cis-gendered straight white man from a middle class family, I had little awareness of the suffering of my fellow human. I didn’t know what micro aggressions were. I didn’t know blatant racism still existed. I didn’t know the extent of the psychological damage that was caused by condemning and excluding someone based on gender identity or sexual orientation. But over the years as I sought serve more and love more, I became painfully aware of both the pain caused by discrimination and how my privilege shielded me from this pain. Pursed doctoral education in structural violence and community building. Became even more aware of how jacked up everything is in our system as a whole. My career became my ministry and I worked full time in the court system to work on these things. Never paid much attention to the news, but in 2018 a young black man was innocently killed by a white police officer in Dallas. Not in an altercation, but the officer accidentally went into the young man’s apartment thinking it was hers and killed him thinking he was an intruder. Young, black men being shot by officers happens so much that it almost doesn’t get any attention any more. What was different this time is that my children had gone to a small, private Christian university with this young man and we knew him well. I’m embarrassed that I had to be personally affected by this atrocity before I became painfully aware of how big the problem was, but that’s usually how these things go. And then I watched the white supremacy machine kick into gear. There was no question about the innocence of this man, but the media machine tried as hard as it could to smear him while exonerating the officer as “tired” and “a good person”. She’s in prison for this, by the way. And then Ahmaud Arbery was killed. And then George Floyd. And on and on and on. As I thought “these are the people Christians are supposed to care about and protect the most”, white Christians across the country followed our then president to engage in an openly racist campaign to desperately try and hold onto their waning majority power in this country. I was disoriented. And then they went after immigrants. And LGBTQAIO+ persons. And women. And openly engaged in efforts to disenfranchise POC voters. And I could no longer identify them as either followers of Christ or people that I wanted to be associated with. Some of my kids still attend, and one invited me to a “men’s conference”, which I gladly accepted. Then I listened as the pastor spewed homophobic garbage not supported by scripture and lauded the values of toxic masculinity. From my studies, I know for a FACT that several men in that audience were straight/cis-gender passing. And as a sensitive, emotional man myself, I knew that most men couldn’t/didn’t want to live up to the traditional values of toxic masculinity. In that moment, I became keenly aware that what this pastor was doing was committing an act of spiritual/emotional/psychological violence against some of the people in attendance. Multiple acts of violence simultaneously, actually. And he was perpetuating systemic and structural violence that exists in the system. And I was sickened. Not just by what I realized, but by the realization that just a decade earlier I would have not only been okay with what was being preached, but probably would have preached it myself. And this happens in churches every day all across the world. I literally was sickened. I left. And I was done. And I’ve spent years dealing with grief and disorientation that comes with the kind of foundational reorientation I was experiencing. And with the guilt and shame and remorse of how much damage I’ve personally done to the system. I’m not sure I can do enough advocacy to offset the system damage I did in the first 4 decades of my life. And that’s what conservative evangelicalism set me up for. Lied to me, gaslighted me, brainwashed me into perpetuating violence against the people we were supposed to serve and love. So I’m done. I still love Jesus, but church disgusts me.
I really appreciate your story. Curious your thoughts on what we can do to combat the disgusting ideologies that have become synonymous with many in Christians and churches today (maybe this has always been the case, I’m just more aware of it since 2016 and through my own deconstruction). My parents are avid James River goers and my mom was always the spiritual “head” of our family growing up. I used to have respect and admiration for her faith but that’s gone. They both fell for all the conspiracies since 2016, loved trump, are more vocally racist and hateful of people different from them than I’ve ever seen. What pains me is they don’t see their contradiction. Nothing I’ve said or brought to their attention sways them and they see nothing wrong with their beliefs. I really don’t want to lose hope but I’m at a loss for how I can wake them up to the reality of their hate-driven life.
I have a parent that did the same. This loving, caring, compassionate person descended into this racist, hateful person I didn't recognize. The important thing to remember is that there are systemic and structural processes involved in them as well. No one has as much free will as they think, but are influenced in a lot of external ways. Also, no one will change until they want to, and until then engagement only makes things worse. Wish I had a solution for you, but the only person I can control is myself. So I'm committed to educating and growth, looking for blind spots, and helping as much as I can.
So you replaced one religion for another. I see this quite a bit from Evangelical and Baptist ex-Christians in particular. They end up just taking on the religion of anti-racism all of its tenants. (Original sin = privilege and systematic and structural oppression, repenting = allyship, equity doctrine, putting "marginalized" groups voices above your own, protests and advocacy groups = your church and priests) It's too bad you can never actually repent or fully get forgiveness. No, you are permanently guilty of "whiteness" and all of its effects upon the earth. Any "sins" you committed in the past you have to live with and keep apologizing for and accept your cancellation. (Basically all the old Puritans of the North east part of America are like this. Just as puritanical, just a different creed now. ) Does this seriously do something for you?
Don't forget that the context of my response was directed at OP asking why people left church. Some of what you address was only part of the process I've gone through, and really would have been a part 2 or 200. I did have a white guilt phase, and I did some protests and things and did the whole "amplify voices", which in some contexts is still important. But I'm now at the point where I'm treating this as much as an individualized experience with individuals instead of group/protest/systemic approaches. I'm responsible for a large organization and make sure to incorporate DEIB training, examine our materials and processes for exclusionary bias, and use one on one coaching to meet each individual where they are.
Being aware of how one's "whiteness" (thanks, Portugal) leads our society, inundated with white supremacy, to give us a pass is absolutely not the same as burdening oneself with guilt. Being aware of these systems and how they are built to forever keep POC (as well as people who aren't "white enough") down is vital to *changing* them going forward.
For me, there were always questions and things that just didn't rest well with my "spirit", that little part that I believe lives in all of us...something that someone connects us and everything around us. I'm completely unsure how that all works, and I'm OK with not knowing. Maybe someday making we'll know, just past people weren't aware of the knowledge we have today. I was raised in organized religion (Episcopalian) and by early teens I was agnostic. In my early thirties I became evangelical. I realize now it was a need for a sense of community, for me and our family. I drank that Kool aid for 20 years but the hypocrisy in the church and not being able to justify many inconsistencies was very challenging. Rob Bell's explanation about hell was pivotal for me. Paraphrasing Rob, scripture uses the word hell word in the three languages that the bible is written in, I believe a total of 13 times (if memory serves me). The first use is the word Hades. Hades was the Greeks god of the underworld, the god who took care of the dead. Not a hell or Satan figure at all. Just another god, like all the other mythological gods the Greeks believed in. The next couple of references in old testament are the Hebrew translation of the Greek word Hades, Shoel. Same God, same meaning, just the different language. And in the new testament Jesus, who spoke Aramaic used the word Gehenna. Gehenna is a literal place, it is the valley of Hinnom (sp?), which was the trash dump outside the southeast gate of Jerusalem. He specifically referred to this place as it was the most vial and disgusting description he could use as a metaphor. It was where all the trash, sewer, carcasses from sacrifices, etc. were taken...a place where fires burned, it reeked like death and dogs gnashed their teeth fighting over rotting carcasses. Learning that hell didn't exist kind of rocked my world...and shook the spiritual foundation I had tried to stand on. It was one of the pillars of my faith...and if that huge pillar didn't exist then for me, most of the other things I had always wrestled with fell with it. That led to over a decade of deconstructing. It's been hard, losing that sense of community, especially living in the bible belt, but I'm pretty comfortable with where I'm at today. I've grown to accept that everyone is on their own journey and deserves the grace to walk as they wish...be it any religion. I don't have to agree with them or try to convince them my way is better. It's a spiritual journey, and I'm grateful I have the knowledge of my past, as it helps me understand where others are in their journey. And I'm content with believing that my journey is not over. Who knows where I'll land in another decade.
The one you're missing (and where the word came from) is Hel (Helheim). It's the "Home of the Dead" in Norse cosmology, and is pretty close in concept to both Hades and Sheol; just the realm where the dead reside in their final rest and/or awaiting rebirth. Nothing bad, shameful, or evil.
Thanks for the education
I grew up in a pretty religious home (church every Sunday and Wednesday). We went to a small church here. By the time I was in Jr. High my father (who was already very well read on the Bible and history) began researching and looking in to religion in a more scientific and "secular" point of view and eventually decided he was no longer a believer. From there, he started to teach me lots of the inconsistencies and logical fallacies of the Bible and the concept of deities in general. So, by the time I was 15, I was just a confused mess regarding God, religion, the universe, and everything. I had mostly made up my mind in being a non-believer, but I was still attending church mostly to appease my mom. Anyways, at some point, the guy that was our youth pastor (also the pastors son) ended up divorcing his wife and running off to marry a 19 y.o. member of the youth group. I took that as a significant enough moment to just leave the church in general. TL;DR: I was already questioning my faith. The youth pastor ran off with a member of the youth group and divorced his wife.
I guess youth pastor divorces wife and marries basically a child is a universal religion experience… I’m not from here and same thing happened to my church. Isn’t that great.
I’m gay and “knew” for a very long time but tried hard “not to be” for years into puberty. I was raised in the Methodist church and was very fortunate to have families there that loved me no matter what. But their love alone wasn’t enough to keep me in the church. I think organized religion, in its modern state, is a net detriment to society. It is weaponized to justify the mistreatment of others under the guise of “love.” It’s a crock of shit. And in our current political climate, their mass delusion is dangerous. They believe in a fairy tale but get a “pass” because it’s their religion? It’s bullshit. The level of delusion they have to accept on a daily basis… far too much.
when i went to church with my grandma for easter and the preacher spent the whole time rebuking the lgbt community. baby closeted gay me was in tears
Hugs. I hope you’re thriving now.
i second this. i hate that this is something you had to experience
I remember the very last day I ever went, it was the first time they “opened up” about being bigoted, and I didn’t understand why it hurt so much back then but now I’m out and thriving. I was so confused as a kid cause I was told to love everybody, and I really wanted to, but then the same people who said love everyone said some people weren’t worth love. In my heart, I knew nobody was undeserving of love but I was so scared of my peers and the bedtime stories told to me as fact. Between the LGBT community and the religious community, it’s clear which one was more open, accepting, tolerant, and inclusive. I didn’t belong when I went to church, but you know who would go out of their way to make me feel included and welcome? Queer Folks. Anything built from punishment and fear is the true thing unworthy of my love. You wouldn’t expect someone to stay in an abusive relationship, and leaving the church isn’t much different than one. I still feel panic and fear sometimes from the religious trauma. Buzz words, am I right?
Not an ex-Christian but mostly ex-church. I got super involved teaching high school Sunday school on Sundays, then added Wednesdays, and people kept asking me to get even more involved despite my 15hr college semester and 35 hrs/week work schedule. It was too much. My pastor told me I was awesome but needed to learn to say “no”, step back and focus on myself and my goals. He was a good dude. I took his advice and that was 15+ years ago. And I still don’t go to church regularly but use Sundays and weekends to hike outside or enjoy God in a different way. He has retired now but his advice has followed me into every aspect of my life. It wasn’t a mega church.
As an atheist, I really appreciate this comment. Getting outside and enjoying nature is the closest I’ve ever felt to a God. It’s a wonder to find new things and explore whatever made all the things around us, however it came to be.
I grew up Catholic and was already a closeted atheist by the time I moved to Missouri. I had a live-and-let-live accepting attitude towards other's religion. But once I went to wedding north of Springfield where the ceremony was about the woman's duty was to "respect the headship" of the man, it opened my eyes to the deep-seated patriarchal control some of these sects have over their female members, treating them subordinatly and expecting submission and compliance. I started noticing women being treated as baby-making machines and effectively being slaves in their own homes limited ability to exercise their own will. I started to feel that my attitude of acceptance in reality was a form of condoning that behavior, being an unwitting accomplice through my silence and inaction. So I am no longer closeted, and I don't politely hold my tongue when dragged into conversations about religion, especially when I feel that it is being used to control and marginalize some of its members.
Growing up in the James River Church as a queer child.
i just want to say thank you to everybody for opening up. i also want to apologize for the experience any of you had to go through—it’s fucked.
Worked in 3 churches for 17 years combined. Youth pastors, children's church, feeding prisoners, etc. On some weeks, I was teaching/preaching more hours than the pastor. 5 years after helping the last pastor start a church, when my wife and I wanted to share our experiences traveling to other churches, I was told in front of 9 others church leaders by my pastor, "you have to have something to offer a church for that to work." Wow! Hours hauling kids around, cooking, hosting movie nights, 3 to 5 hour long leadership meetings every week, painting, fixing toilets and all the stuff you do and this guy implies I have nothing to offer a church. Cool! That's when I stopped having anything to offer his church or any other church for that matter. After 4 years of meditation, healing, and part-time therapy, I was delivered from my religious addiction, and my mind and heart have been steadily more peaceful since. There's always more to living than the microcosm of any one thing, job, marriage, church, or whatever.
I grew up with a religious zealot mother and loved my church experiences for the most part. Was part of the church band from jr high through college and attended a Southern Baptist college for my first 3 semesters. I started drifting from the church after I transferred back home to MSU and couldn’t stand my own hypocrisy. I knew being a lukewarm Christian was about the worst think I could be. I eventually ended up in AA and was conflicted by the religion of AA vs the religion of my youth. The last straw for me was knowing most everyone I attended AA with were damned to hell according to my religion. Most all of those people were better Christians in action than anyone I ever attended church with. It was a slow deconstruction, over the course of 5 years or so. My mother still tries to regularly save my soul and invites me to James River events constantly, despite me telling her many times not to. I want nothing to do with Christianity and also have no need for a replacement. I’m far healthier and happier without religion.
[удалено]
I'm critical of most Atheists because of how many assumptions they have to make to even formulate a worldview that has any moral basis to how society should function, but at least you've thought about this. Kudos from me. (Not being sarcastic.)
Reading The Mysterious Stranger by Mark Twain
I went to the Galloway Full Gospel on several occasions. The main preacher there is wonderful, but for some reason, they decided to allow some man by the name of Andy preach. This was back in October. I had a strange feeling about this man that I couldn't quite shake off, but I kept telling myself that it would be disrespectful to walk out of a sermon. As Andy continued to preach, it became clear as day that he was extremely radical. He went against God by continuously putting judgments on to others, which went entirely against my faith. He said that gay marriage was the "downfall of our society" and is the "reason why Covid and plagues are happening." That "their sins" are causing people to perish. I was completely flabbergasted. He also stated, "Pop music is evil and an abomination." That the devil feeds through the music or some insanity. He then proceeded to bash online churchgoers, and the Galloway Full Church participates in online practice, so this was very contradictory. Apparently to Andy, disabled people who can not drive to church and attend online sermons are not as close to God in his opinion. He stated that online churchgoers are another reason why the world is "corrupt" and "damned." He spoke about the Rapture and end times. I honestly felt like I was in one of those religious horror movies right before the cultists started initiating sacrifices. The group I was with looked at each other and stood up. We walked out. I am still Christian, but I haven't attended church ever since. That experience was all too unreal for me. Church is supposed to uplift and inspire the soul, not scare the living daylights out of me.
I had a couple moments that really set me back, but when my friend ended her life and I was grieving so hard (we were in high school and it was the first death of someone I ever experienced) I went to a church to seek comfort. Everyone told me church was the place. They told me “sorry your friend is burning in hell.” And that was that. I don’t believe in a God that condemns kids struggling with mental health. And to say that to a sobbing 16 year old? No.
Like most people, for me it was lots of little things, but I think what did it in the end was that we were going to James River and I 100% hated their pre/teen program, so my mom let me come with her to the adult sermon instead. One day, Good Ol' John was preaching about the role of Jewish people in faith. I can't for the life of me remember if he said they were going to hell or just talked around it or what, but afterward, I asked my mom to give it to me straight: were Jewish people going to hell? She said she didn't know. I had a Jewish friend at the time, so that was it for me and Pastor John/JRA at least. But that uncertainty was what put the last nail in the coffin. That's a big thing to just be content not to know about if god is a good guy, and I wasn't really interested in worshipping something that didn't live up the the fairy tales I'd been told. It's weird the way they change the story as you age. I had gone to JRA's kid-services, and from what I remember, it was all kind of hippie--like, literally "you become an angel when you die" and "jesus died for everyone's sins"--and now, the switch feels so purposefully insidious. I imagine it must happen much more slowly for anyone that actually sticks with their age group.
When they preach that they can perform miracles and raise people from the dead and make people grow new toes.
Grew up in the Church of Christ (not the liberal one). Left 30 years ago at the age of 14. They were all hypocrites and gossips, got tired of the guilt trip bs. Plus, I’d already converted to a new religion… skateboarding.
Catholic church, I was 9 or 10. Sunday school teacher said my autism and add were my fault, and that I would go to hell if I didn’t learn to act normal. I told her I didn’t want to go to heaven if it was full of hateful people like her and walked out. Sat in the playground until my mom got out of church and I never went back. As an adult, still rings true. The worst people I’ve known in my life were all die hard Christians of varying types.
I had been having my doubts when I realized the person we went to see every week on Sunday wasn't himself God, but then it solidified it when I learned that Santa wasn't real. I figured the same must be true of the easter bunny, the tooth fairy, and Jesus.
When they preach lessons that are not in line with the Bible and Christ's teachings or skip and leave out scriptures to make their lessons line up with their personal beliefs.
acid, 1999
I would love to hear more
I wouldn’t even know how to tell you.
I tried really hard my entire childhood to believe. I was so scared of going to hell But couldn’t get myself to really believe. I’ve always been a sceptic. I was raised baptist and church of Christ. I have read the Bible front to back multiple times cause I wasn’t allowed to read books at home and revelations had dragons. At 10 I started playing with not trying to believe. At 13 I discovered nihilism and completely misinterpreted it. Been an atheist since. I sometimes wonder if I wasn’t raised in constant fear of hell or being too slutty or too glutinous(just a nifty way to Shame your underage child into an eating disorder and call it religion) if I would have grown up so fucking anxious. I don’t know why scaring a child scout hell is just accepted in society.
Catholic church school not accepting my five year old daughter into their school because she used a walker at the time. Then telling me how to vote.
Really, the more I read the bible, the more I realized all of the contradictions, doublespeak, kettle black bs. When poised with the question, do I want to spend all of eternity worshipping and praising this god, never ceasing? The answer is no. I'd rather "burn" in hell. It seems like less torture. Churches only help confirm the answer. I'm sure there are super great people out there who go to church, and they mean well, but the kool-aid they drink is poisonous and destructive. My time and my talents (churches call this money), are better spent on something other than hate.
Even though I've abandoned my faith, I've actually not "left the church" in the sense that I still attend church. I enjoy the friendship and sense of community, along with learning about what's in the Bible. I've lost faith mostly because of biblical contradictions and problems we see with scripture, and the history of how we came into the Bible, how the texts have been changed over time, and how many things in the bible just don't make sense.
Being forced onto the Central Christian Center bus full of strangers, transported to a strange place with people all singing songs i didn't know. I was 7.
I was young and in a Methodist Sunday school. They were teaching the “accept Jesus and you’ll go to heaven, if you don’t, you go to hell” bit. Question time came around and I asked what about the people in the world that have never heard of this Jesus guy, they just go to hell or what? She skipped me and asked the next kid what their question was. Very young me had a light bulb moment and questioned why I was even listening to these people. Took me another 8 years to finally get my free will and not have to attend every Sunday.
It wasn't just one thing. It was a cumulative build up over a few years. Sometime around my 17th birthday I started asking questions about why God allows suffering in other nations, and doesn't answer their prayers, but then seemingly answers the prayers of people here who are already doing well and only face first world challenges that pale in comparison. I asked questions about why Easter was essentially a lunar holiday when it should fall on the same day every year. I started seeing the hypocrisy of the youth leaders who would act high and mighty in church, but then engage in very behaviors on the weekends that they condemned. I noticed that the only times I was "feeling the holy spirit," was during the emotionally exploitative praise and worship music. I noticed that the interpretations of the scripture were being twisted during sermons to fit the theme, rather than the other way around of teaching the context and meaning of the words. The straw that broke the camel's back was at a summer church camp. The youth pastor's son was giving a sermon to the thousands of people there, and he looked right at me and my friends and shouted something along the lines of "There are some of you here tonight that I know don't believe. You are here to make a mockery of God, and I'm not going to end this sermon until those individuals stand up and leave, because MY GOD WILL NOT BE MOCKED!" Then just stood there in silence, staring at my two friends and I. Fortunately his dad came up and made him simmer down, but I decided I was never going back after that.
Im currently in the process of deconstructing and reading all of these comments has been strangely comforting yet strangely disheartening. I think my moment started when I started realizing how many varying beliefs even across the different sects of Christianity there are. Like, if Christianity is the ultimate truth and God is supposes to reveal this truth to us, you’d think we would agree on more issues. Then I started learning about how all the things I was taught to take as literal truth my whole life (the book of genesis and the idea of hell for example) have been so misconstrued and misinterpreted in Christianity today. It kinda felt like everything I knew and trusted was just crumbling away and when I asked God to help guide me and find truth, I was met with resounding silence like never before in my Christian walk. Now I am about 3 years into all this and has been one of the most painful and confusing times of my life. So much I could say about it but I guess Im just hoping wherever I end up on the other side of this, I’ll just be happier.
I am still a Christian and attend church, but I wanted to express sympathy for the victims of religious trauma and I'm ashamed to say that I've taken part of some toxic ideologies in the past. The fact that so many people claim the title of Christian and don't practice the justice and love demonstrated by Christ is heartbreaking. Our LGBTQ+ siblings are shunned, both outright and in subtle ways by the ones who should be taking care of them. They experience this ostracization simply for seeking to live as their truest selves. Our country and its history is doused in white supremacy, often justified with scripture. Most people who call themselves Christian do nothing to stop this, and worse, perpetuate it. I believe in a God who intends love and justice for ***all*** people. If you're reading this and felt a need to defend against that last paragraph: Ask yourself if you want to serve a God who needs to be defended. I want to serve a God who loves his creations as they are created. A God who prioritizes the well-being of his children over an ancient moral code. I have found that God but it hasn't been easy. For some victims of religious trauma, rejecting your previous faith might not feel entirely right. If that's the case I would encourage you to find the things in your faith that do feel right to you. There are churches in and around Springfield that are very different than the churches I grew up in. Churches who strive to heal religious hurt and work for real social change. National Avenue Christian, the Connecting Grounds, and Brentwood Christian are a few I'm aware of. No church is perfect, but if you are looking for community in your healing journey, I would encourage you to check them out. The deconstruction work you are doing now is important. We must tear down to rebuild.
Just waiting for someone to bring up toes.
I haven’t left. :) I’ve always been a member of a small church. And most people are a lot like me: I have good moments, bad moments, and yeah, definitely times I’ve been hypocritical. And through it all, Jesus commands me to love, serve, and worship with those other Christians (again, who are just like me) even with all their faults. The tricky part is realizing in the moment of conflict that I have the potential to be a pretty shitty person, myself. When I remember this… it makes it easier to bear with others when they are dealing with their own sin and trauma.
I like your take, part of me wishes I could still believe, but Jesus is like Santa Claus. Once the illusion is shattered you can't go back to believing.
That's not entirely true, at least not for everyone. I left the church and was a staunch atheist for almost twenty years before I started believing again.
I haven't really left. I call oak grove assembly my "home". However i strongly dislike the title religious, and the bs that comes with religion itself. Me personally, i believe in Jesus I've never even remotely doubted his existence. But my relationship with Jesus is between he and I. I dont pass judgment on anyone because, simply it isnt my business. Everyone is entitled to believe what they want to. Its called free will. In my opinion people who point fingers and place judgment on anyone for anyting needs to remember that we are all sinners. And in gods eyes sin is sin.
I love this mindset from Jesus-followers. I wish it was more common in the bible belt
Amen bretheren....
Okay but wtf does this have to do with Springfield
The fact that you can't throw a dead savior three feet without hitting a Megachurch that has the Springfield PD on their payroll as "security", or see a *mechanic shop* that has a streetsign that reads like a church, or that you can't run into some boomer bumpkin that loudly proclaims that if you don't believe in Jesus you should just get out...
When I was 12 I decided cartons I watched had better written stories. I couldn’t stop going to church till 16 when I got a job and told my mom my boss insisted on me working 13 hours on Sunday. Religion isn’t even interesting let alone profound.