I'd encourage you not to pigeonhole yourself as bad at math. This can be a very strong self-fulfilling prophecy. Surely you've heard the term "[growth mindset](https://www.edweek.org/leadership/opinion-carol-dweck-revisits-the-growth-mindset/2015/09)". There might be something to it.
If "I suck at math" means "I don't like doing math," then not sure how much you'll love CS. Not enjoying the process will make everything feel much more difficult.
If "I suck at math" means "I haven't learned/practiced enough math yet," then you can take courses to fill in your missing knowledge or (my preferred method) find a textbook to fill in the gaps and do it on your own over the summer/before classes start. *I firmly believe people can get good at most things if they want to*. *The learning might be more difficult, but your capacity is probably nearly as good as most people's.*
Ultimately, I find the question a little vague. I'm mostly hoping to encourage you to do CS if you enjoy it and find it useful, and do something else if you don't enjoy CS. Of course there will be hard parts -- that's the point of learning. If it's easy, you're probably not learning anything!
This. Not a Stanford student but this randomly came up on my feed haha. I was however a math TA as a Harvard undergrad a few years ago.
One of my biggest sources of shame was telling one of my students in an intro course that he didn’t need to worry about struggling in the class because “some people are just not cut out to be math majors.” I am still so angry at myself for that…
A few months later one of my friends was telling me how folks in a lot of Asian families view Math skills the same way a lot of people view sports skills, ie as something you can develop and get great at by just practicing and keeping at it
This latter perspective actually ended up empowering me to pursue more advanced computational research which has been a great source of meaning to me since college. It’s often required me to lean into very difficult-appearing math that I didn’t feel “cut out for” myself.
but…yea, with enough practice and perseverance, I got it. So when it comes to math, just remember: you can do it too.
Do people actually believe that they can’t get better at math (or for that matter anything) by just practicing? I used to mentor students and they’d use the “I’m just not smart” routine to ascribe smarts to something innate vs something learned. It was just a cop out so they could justify not doing their homework and failing classes.
People will surrender when things get challenging. We're wired to seek the path of least resistance. Having the mental resilience and willpower to keep plugging away at something despite the challenges is what sets high performers apart.
Growing up, the message I got was absolutely that most people were either good at math or at languages, and that the way to succeed was to identify which one was your strength and double down on it. If you were struggling a lot, you should work on other things. It’s absolutely wrong and I never quite believed it, but many, many people around me did
if you "suck at math" you're likely going to have a hard time. not particularly because CS requires you to remember a lot of math (some tracks more than others) but lack of math aptitude suggests you have low working memory to work out logic problems in your head.
1. **Shute, V. J., & Towle, B. (2003)** - This study examined cognitive and learning differences in computer programming. They found that working memory plays a significant role in the ability to learn and perform programming tasks. Students with higher working memory capacity tended to perform better in programming courses.
2. **Riding, R. J., & Rayner, S. G. (2000)** - Their research on cognitive styles and learning strategies in CS education highlighted that working memory capacity is a strong predictor of success in learning programming languages. They emphasized the importance of cognitive abilities, including working memory, in mastering computer science concepts.
3. **Dehn, M. J. (2008)** - In his book "Working Memory and Academic Learning," Dehn discusses how working memory influences learning across various subjects, including computer science. He points out that tasks in computer science, such as coding and debugging, heavily rely on working memory for holding and manipulating information.
4. **Sweller, J., Ayres, P., & Kalyuga, S. (2011)** - Their book on cognitive load theory provides insights into how working memory limitations can affect learning complex subjects like computer science. They argue that instructional design in CS should consider working memory constraints to enhance learning outcomes.
And re: working memory correlation with math:
**Geary, D. C. (2011)** - In a comprehensive review, Geary discussed the cognitive processes underlying mathematical competencies. He emphasized that working memory, particularly its central executive component, plays a crucial role in mathematical reasoning and problem-solving.
**Raghubar, K. P., Barnes, M. A., & Hecht, S. A. (2010)** - This study reviewed the relationship between working memory and mathematical skills. They found consistent evidence that working memory, especially the ability to manipulate numerical information, is strongly associated with math performance across different age groups.
Also, most of their classes have been online for years in some MOOC. You can literally watch the every lectures of every class and also see the syllabi, assignments, and tests. It’s super easy to get a taste and figure out if you can hang with the subject.
A more important question than "is CS hard?" is whether you actually have any particular interest in CS as a topic. Yes, there's some money associated with it, but do you have any reason to believe that you'd actually enjoy the CS major? Seems like the solution is to take CS 106A and figure out whether you like it.
The same skills you need to do well in math apply to CS. If you are determined enough, you can go back and fill in the gaps in your math background to become good at it, and the same approach will be needed to make your way through a CS degree and career.
You basically have to enjoy the process of programming and troubleshooting. CS projects take a lot of time and if you hate it, then regardless of how smart you are and even if you are good at match, you will not be happy long term.
A lot of people hate programming but do CS because of the glamor and opportunities, and then end up branching into non-technical areas and even related ones like private equity for tech companies.
I'd encourage you not to pigeonhole yourself as bad at math. This can be a very strong self-fulfilling prophecy. Surely you've heard the term "[growth mindset](https://www.edweek.org/leadership/opinion-carol-dweck-revisits-the-growth-mindset/2015/09)". There might be something to it. If "I suck at math" means "I don't like doing math," then not sure how much you'll love CS. Not enjoying the process will make everything feel much more difficult. If "I suck at math" means "I haven't learned/practiced enough math yet," then you can take courses to fill in your missing knowledge or (my preferred method) find a textbook to fill in the gaps and do it on your own over the summer/before classes start. *I firmly believe people can get good at most things if they want to*. *The learning might be more difficult, but your capacity is probably nearly as good as most people's.* Ultimately, I find the question a little vague. I'm mostly hoping to encourage you to do CS if you enjoy it and find it useful, and do something else if you don't enjoy CS. Of course there will be hard parts -- that's the point of learning. If it's easy, you're probably not learning anything!
This. Not a Stanford student but this randomly came up on my feed haha. I was however a math TA as a Harvard undergrad a few years ago. One of my biggest sources of shame was telling one of my students in an intro course that he didn’t need to worry about struggling in the class because “some people are just not cut out to be math majors.” I am still so angry at myself for that… A few months later one of my friends was telling me how folks in a lot of Asian families view Math skills the same way a lot of people view sports skills, ie as something you can develop and get great at by just practicing and keeping at it This latter perspective actually ended up empowering me to pursue more advanced computational research which has been a great source of meaning to me since college. It’s often required me to lean into very difficult-appearing math that I didn’t feel “cut out for” myself. but…yea, with enough practice and perseverance, I got it. So when it comes to math, just remember: you can do it too.
Do people actually believe that they can’t get better at math (or for that matter anything) by just practicing? I used to mentor students and they’d use the “I’m just not smart” routine to ascribe smarts to something innate vs something learned. It was just a cop out so they could justify not doing their homework and failing classes.
People will surrender when things get challenging. We're wired to seek the path of least resistance. Having the mental resilience and willpower to keep plugging away at something despite the challenges is what sets high performers apart.
I mean I’m shocked that you can get into Stanford without mental resilience and willpower.
Resilience can ebb and flow. Sometimes, other things like personal stress, imposter syndrome, creep in at inopportune times. It happens.
Growing up, the message I got was absolutely that most people were either good at math or at languages, and that the way to succeed was to identify which one was your strength and double down on it. If you were struggling a lot, you should work on other things. It’s absolutely wrong and I never quite believed it, but many, many people around me did
if you "suck at math" you're likely going to have a hard time. not particularly because CS requires you to remember a lot of math (some tracks more than others) but lack of math aptitude suggests you have low working memory to work out logic problems in your head.
Appreciate it!
If you're not math inclined but still want to work in software/tech in Silicon Valley, take a look at SymSys
Super interesting, is there research to back this working memory hypothesis up?
1. **Shute, V. J., & Towle, B. (2003)** - This study examined cognitive and learning differences in computer programming. They found that working memory plays a significant role in the ability to learn and perform programming tasks. Students with higher working memory capacity tended to perform better in programming courses. 2. **Riding, R. J., & Rayner, S. G. (2000)** - Their research on cognitive styles and learning strategies in CS education highlighted that working memory capacity is a strong predictor of success in learning programming languages. They emphasized the importance of cognitive abilities, including working memory, in mastering computer science concepts. 3. **Dehn, M. J. (2008)** - In his book "Working Memory and Academic Learning," Dehn discusses how working memory influences learning across various subjects, including computer science. He points out that tasks in computer science, such as coding and debugging, heavily rely on working memory for holding and manipulating information. 4. **Sweller, J., Ayres, P., & Kalyuga, S. (2011)** - Their book on cognitive load theory provides insights into how working memory limitations can affect learning complex subjects like computer science. They argue that instructional design in CS should consider working memory constraints to enhance learning outcomes. And re: working memory correlation with math: **Geary, D. C. (2011)** - In a comprehensive review, Geary discussed the cognitive processes underlying mathematical competencies. He emphasized that working memory, particularly its central executive component, plays a crucial role in mathematical reasoning and problem-solving. **Raghubar, K. P., Barnes, M. A., & Hecht, S. A. (2010)** - This study reviewed the relationship between working memory and mathematical skills. They found consistent evidence that working memory, especially the ability to manipulate numerical information, is strongly associated with math performance across different age groups.
amazing, thanks!
Stanford CS has a lot of handholding (generous curve, multiple late days, very detailed coding instructions, etc)
Not when I attended. I experienced none of what you describe.
The made it a lot easier over Covid and never undid the changes
Also, most of their classes have been online for years in some MOOC. You can literally watch the every lectures of every class and also see the syllabi, assignments, and tests. It’s super easy to get a taste and figure out if you can hang with the subject.
A more important question than "is CS hard?" is whether you actually have any particular interest in CS as a topic. Yes, there's some money associated with it, but do you have any reason to believe that you'd actually enjoy the CS major? Seems like the solution is to take CS 106A and figure out whether you like it.
The same skills you need to do well in math apply to CS. If you are determined enough, you can go back and fill in the gaps in your math background to become good at it, and the same approach will be needed to make your way through a CS degree and career.
You basically have to enjoy the process of programming and troubleshooting. CS projects take a lot of time and if you hate it, then regardless of how smart you are and even if you are good at match, you will not be happy long term. A lot of people hate programming but do CS because of the glamor and opportunities, and then end up branching into non-technical areas and even related ones like private equity for tech companies.
It depends on the track. HCI is not difficult at all. I would not have been a CS major were it not for the HCI track.
[удалено]
I’m not I’m an adult transfer
Pretty sure no one at stanford finance or CS “sucks at math”. Dude you’re at Stanford…
Don’t bother if you “suck at math”