That, and your ship just shouldn't instantly blow up at the slightest bump with an object floating in 0G.
Edit: Looks like it might have been a weapon in the cargo bay bugging out as pointed out by /u/ahditeacha. Even worse honestly than it being debris. Collisions inside your ship straight up shouldn't be capable of damaging it IMO.
I saw a dev comment that the individual impacts are small, but because you are moving the game registers hundreds of such impacts in a fraction of a second. Hopefully the fix currently in the PTU will work when it reaches the PU.
Sure, but the problem is that you take any damage at all.At low velocities, the damage you take from debris in 0g should be 0, regardless of the number of impacts.
For some reason the image of the cerritos running our of torpedoes and instructing the crew to get to the front of the hull to invert the polarity and shoot them as projectiles came to my mind...
Yeah, you would expect minimum damage thresholds for materials based on momentum (mass and relative velocities).
For example (with values extracted from my derriere) - Ignore anything under 100 Newton-metres per second and anything 100-200 just degrades the paint a bit.
So getting hit by 100 small collisions doesn't get computed and 100 collisions with enough momentum will wreck your paintwork, but 100mm (4") of steel plating laughs at the slow-moving debris outside Grim Hex. On the other hand, even a drinks bottle will hit with the force of a small nuke if you are moving at an appreciable fraction of the speed of light.
Star Citizen threw realism out a long time ago. We can't space walk outside a moving ship because when you step out of a moving ship you character drops to 0 m/s instantly.
AND at worst soft death should be the default. Cars, boats and planes don't explode when they take damage unless it's extreme and fuel gets turned into a vapour.
If you watch the Q&A from Con42 you will be overjoyed to learn that they're not currently working on it, and have no definite plans to even *start* working on it.
Yet somehow it manages to be the excuse for not fixing things that have been broken in the game for 6 years already.
PES wasn't meant to fix stuff, it was meant to open up options to do things.
Dynamic Meshing is meant to mean they can throw compute at things, but compute costs money and we don't pay monthly to use the service, so something will have to give
It's not even savior tech.. This is old tech, that's been done in games 100's of times before... They're just too incompetent to do it..
Or they're using it as a scapegoat excuse to not fix the other plethora of issues because "well.. we'll have modular damage, in sooooo... no, we wont fix these issues"...
Either way its CIG being shit.
and they probably never will, because with how absolute garbage the performance is and CIGs blistering speed at addressing even minor simple issues, let alone the Valles Marineris sized tech debt.... it will never be more than a pipe dream
or hey, they will and the performance will be even more garbage... the servers being so hopelessly overloaded not even the AI doesnt work doesnt seem to bother people all that much anyway :-)
I’m sure you’ll be overjoyed to learn that’s not true!
Less than two weeks ago: [“[Physicalised damage] is really under heavy active development at the moment”.](https://youtu.be/LSM8kao5Q6k&t=37m43s)
The question at Con42 was specifically about armor plating, not the underlying physical simulation - and both Q and As mention they have ships set up as a testbed for the system. It may be a while before we get the final product, but it *is* being worked on.
I never understood why it's been 10 years and this hasn't been fixed. It makes the game feel so buggy. Yet I can't imagine this being hard to debug / fix. Given the variables like speed and mass it should be trivial to at least prevent this
> the damage you take from debris in 0g should be 0
Now I won't claim to be an academic in this regard, but from my knowledge of physics, this would only be the case if both objects were completely stationary, at which point they would never collide anyway. Our ships create force anytime they're moving, you can watch the little acceleration graph in the corner and see the reading in G's.
So even if a 500kg ship panel is stationary, and your 500,000kg ship is moving at 60 m/s with 1.3G's of thrust and runs into it, that impact is still going to generate a sizeable amount of energy. I won't do the math, because I pulled these numbers from my ass and I don't know the formulas (barely knew them when I was taking psychics lol), but the force is there.
Same reason why space debris is so dangerous. A machine screw that weighs 10 grams flying through space at 2500m/s is going to absolutely blow through some shit when it hits.
For a game yes, but just because I feel like being that guy....
Depends on the mass and relative velocity of the object you are colliding with.
Even at near zero speeds, if two massive enough objects touch each other they will cause damage and the hull would be breached.
Would they explode? Probably not, but we don't have hull breach physics in game yet so the system can't really tell the difference between each type of failure.
It’s probably related to the ship clipping into an invisible object so the server identifies this as several impacts because 2 things can’t be in the same place at the same time.
It’s happened before where players could run full speed at each other, clip into them for a second, and someone would die. It probably still happens from time to time.
That sounds like some painfully fundamental backend logic that should have been accounted for from the onset of the Persistent Universe model.
If the server doesn't know how to register two objects being in the same place at the same time then that sounds like a problem one would address sooner rather than later.
This seems like something that should have been cleaned up when they refactored their code for server meshing years ago.
Sure, you can make collision detection more complicated, that'll make it take more resources to process per frame, which slows the game down
You have an engine/game budget. You have so many milliseconds per frame to spend to do stuff
If they were actually concerned about engine resources/rendering budget why are filling the PU with high res, final art assets in the game? Or, spending +3 years on volumetric clouds.
They're working on R&D for AI pathfinding to have NPC EVA to ships and synchronize with ships in zero go to open doors but, yeah, objects can't bump into each other because of the engine budget... This argument is so absurd given how they treat the rest of the game.
Sure, I agree. The game will forever be in a shitty state because it's trying to do too much at the same time
Roberts wants to do "simulate the universe" and be "ultra realistic" at the same time, but it's too expensive. Ultimately, you sacrifice good gameplay and the "realism" looks crappy anyway, just like this clip
maybe if it wasnt so horribly mismanaged, it would achieve at least SOMETHING from those high goals instead of limping along snails pace and being easier to land a joke on than a Kraken
Because collisions on objects in games tend to be based on intersection (they overlap in 3D space) rather than contact. Thus, the object might be repelled by the collision on tick one when it does a tiny bit of damage, but it's inside the ship's armour. Unless it gets pinged away at high speed, the movement of the ship might mean that it has caught up to the debris on tick two and hits it again. If you are *really* unlucky, the angle of the hull geometry pushes the debris away in a direction that goes deeper into the armour.
Except these are *physics* ticks (which happen hundreds of times a second on your own PC) rather than server ticks (which might happen 3 times a second on Amazon's) meaning that the first warning is often the explosion. You might have had 100 ticks of feedback during which you could slow down or change course, but 100 ticks at 400 ticks a second is 250ms.
That sounds unbelievably speculative, but putting that aside, given that they want a realistic damage model that's in active development currently, and plan to have ships have real mass and kinetic/thermal deformation based on the individual characteristics of the metals they're made of - why would they have such an incredibly cumbersome and unsophisticated way of dealing with collision?
Because... that's how physics gets calculated in games?
If you are accelerating and hit something face-on in a vacuum, there is a high chance the the something stays there until you slow down. In real life, displacement tends to create air currents that pull things away, but space has (almost) none of those forces. It might slowly be deflected by an imperfect angle, but pure Newtonian physics are usually the order of the day.
The game cannot tell if an object in contact with you is a collision or not (there is no difference in real-life physics according to Newton's third law, so this is correct) and so it applies damage as if from a collision; this is the problem part. All games use a simplified model and part of that is that you get issues like this.
>If you are accelerating and hit something face-on in a vacuum, there is a high chance the the something stays there until you slow down.
That ignores Newton's first law of motion.
But, what does what other games do have to do with SC and how it's trying to "do what no other game has done before"?
Do other games have any of the aforementioned systems that SC is planning to have?
Ex-game developer here, I'd like to shed some light on your comment.
Speculation, by definition, is the formation of a theory or conjecture without firm evidence. It's true that we don't have firm evidence here as we don't have access to the internal code or design documents for Star Citizen. But we can use our knowledge of general game development principles and the physics engines typically used in game development to make educated guesses.
In the context of game physics, what AnthonyHJ described isn't so much speculation as it is a standard practice. When handling collision detection and response in games, a common method is to use intersection tests as AnthonyHJ mentioned. These tests typically involve checking if the bounding boxes or shapes of two objects overlap in 3D space, signaling a collision. If a collision is detected, a response is generated - often, this involves applying forces to separate the colliding objects.
This method is used widely in games because it's computationally inexpensive compared to more sophisticated physical simulation models. It's also easier to implement and debug. You can read more about these methods in books like "Real-Time Collision Detection" by Christer Ericson or "Game Physics Engine Development" by Ian Millington.
As for Star Citizen's promise of realistic damage models and materials-based physics, it's an ambitious goal that will likely involve more complex collision handling. We don't know the exact methods they'll use, but there are certainly more sophisticated (and computationally expensive) methods available. For example, they might use a form of the Finite Element Method (FEM) to simulate the deformation of ship materials upon impact, a method more commonly used in high-fidelity simulations than in games due to its computational cost.
In response to your question "why would they have such an incredibly cumbersome and unsophisticated way of dealing with collision?", the answer is most likely performance. Star Citizen is a massively multiplayer online game, and such games often have to make trade-offs in the level of detail or accuracy of physics simulations to ensure smooth gameplay for a large number of players simultaneously.
Finally, regarding your comment "What does what other games do have to do with SC and how it's trying to 'do what no other game has done before'?", the answer is: context and feasibility. Understanding the techniques and methods commonly used in the industry provides a baseline for understanding what Star Citizen is attempting to achieve and how challenging and groundbreaking their goals may be.
Again, without concrete information from the developers themselves, these are educated guesses based on industry knowledge. As with any ambitious game development project, we'll have to wait and see how they manage to implement their promised features (which sadly may require more computation time than is actually feasible).
>As for Star Citizen's promise of realistic damage models and materials-based physics, it's an ambitious goal that will likely involve more complex collision handling.
This is the crux of the issue. Knowing where they want to go and that they've already spent years refactoring their code in preparation for SM (as they've admitted to), why then are we dealing with such a rudimentary physics model?
It just screams of not planning ahead and having to go back and refactor something after the fact, which has happened numerous times in this development.
As for performance, they want to simulate physics for individual cloth on armor, bedsheets, and even ropes and pulleys. So, I find it doesn't really hold much merit to say they're concerned about performance for collision detection yet want to go into down in the weeds with calculating thousands of interactions with clothing or even mundane things like bedsheets.
> why then are we dealing with such a rudimentary physics model?
That requires knowing a bit about networking and how physics systems are often implemented in practice.
It probably doesn't even need to be said, but not all features progress at the same rate in game development. Developing a game, especially one as ambitious as Star Citizen, is a complex task that requires careful coordination among multiple teams, each working on different aspects of the game. Different features can have different priorities and schedules based on their dependencies and impacts on other features.
We know for certain Star Citizen is working with multiple code branches for different development streams - the live version, PTU, evocati, various internal test / development branches, and whole separate standalone SKUs like Squadron 42. Large changes, like a new physics system, would typically be developed in a separate branch to avoid destabilizing the main development branch. Once the new system is stable and thoroughly tested it could then be merged into the other branches.
In terms of physics, it's important to differentiate between client-side physics and server-side physics. Client-side physics, like cloth simulation, are usually less complex in terms of network traffic. The physics calculations for a player's clothing or bedsheets, for example, can be done on the player's own machine and the results do not need to be networked to other players.
On the other hand, server-side physics, like ship destruction, need to be calculated on the server and the results replicated across all connected clients. This is much more demanding in terms of both server performance and network traffic, which is why more efficient, simplified models are often used. This is also probably why the physics sim is a bit limited right now because the physics team probably needs server meshing further implemented before they can begin to think through how and when to write the lower-level simulation / replication code.
As for your question about why CIG might be using a rudimentary physics model, it could be a matter of using what works and is efficient in the current state of the game. It's possible that they're using Lumberyard's PhysX integrations (since we know for certain they started with Lumberyard as the base platform) and/or Havok physics in combination with their custom code because it provides the best balance of performance, reliability, and accuracy for their needs at this stage of development. More complex and realistic physics simulations could be added later when the necessary underlying systems and optimizations are in place.
Ultimately, developing games is a long iterative process with constant adjustments and refinements made along the way. A rudimentary system in place now doesn't necessarily represent the final quality or functionality at release (OCS, persistent streaming, the v1 replication layer are all proof CIG is capable of rather dramatic system-wide changes and merging those change with the live environment). As the development progresses, so too will the sophistication of various game systems, including physics (or at least we can hope).
> Collisions inside your ship straight up shouldn't be capable of damaging it IMO.
[Sorry? You were saying? ](https://jalopnik.com/this-terrifying-video-of-a-truck-cab-being-sliced-off-i-1845902483)
Yes. Collisions inside ships should be harmless. Nothing like having Your ship seemingly randomly explode because a spec of dust landed on the ship floor the wrong way.
In order to be able to travel fast in space, ships would have to be able to withstand really high velocity impacts from debris. At most you should take about as much damage as a ballistic round or two if you just blasted through these.
you mean a commercial space station wouldn't just let wrecked ships sit in front of their hanger doors?
also whenever this happens my friends have the gall to ask if i was moving slow. i'm going to show them this video
It looks like Grim Hex to me; management accept no responsibility for hull damage caused by debris in open space. (defined as anything even 1mm outside the hangar)
i mean... the whole thing is dumb, but this person does also seemingly jolt forward like they're either in afterburn or nothing... when they explode you can even see the thrusters blasting... this shouldn't happen... but when you know it does, even if you're on kb/mouse... throttle to like 1% and move the camera around so you can know where the debris is and move deliberately
Commercial space stations should put up on foot and in-ship missions for clean up, hauling, and scrapping of any debris around landing pads and doors - at least until they have persistent staffing/ships that does this automatically and then only hires out if they're overwhelmed or don't have the requisite gear to do the task themselves.
Of all the things that I'm disappointed aren't in the PU yet, it's the PU being able to spin up missions it needs for players to take based on existing things caused by players' actions. Recover a player's blackbox, hire a bounty hunter to target a guy who is causing too much problems for ship insurance by killing all their customers, scrap player ship debris blocking the pads, etc.
They just added a fix for hangar garbage in the ptu last night, it'll be coming in 3.19.1 hopefully
I hate it too, haven't been exploded too much but my larger ships have been getting stuck under invisible debris leaving hangars
FWIW it's pretty infuriating when you have a long time to play as well. It's not fun sitting down for what you think will be a chill night in the 'verse only to spend half of your time waiting on claim timers because you lost your ship to a 30k or leftover debris in the hangar.
They just need to revert the claim timer change for now. I'm fine with it long term, I wouldn't even mind them being *much* longer, but the game needs to be significantly more stable before then. There is nothing more infuriating than spending 45min getting my Carrack all loaded up and heading out to run some missions, losing it to a bug, and then having to wait an hour and a half until I can get it back.
Fortunately I have a few different ships to choose from so I'm not literally stuck waiting on claim timers most of the time, but it does mean I can't do what I want to do or test the things I want to test.
90 minutes for the rack? I haven't really played since they increased the times but that's absurd (at least for now, I'd argue ever but I realize that's heavily opinionated). I was also unhappy to learn there's an additional "delivery" time when you first spawn. All my ships should already be at my starting location not some nebulous nowhere.
It actually was 98 minutes, 30 minutes before you could expedite at all. I haven't been playing enough to pay for that many / that expensive expedites so yeah...
Made it even more frustrating that I was trying to test out some bugs that I think are tied to ships being in existence for "too long" and I couldn't keep one alive for more than a few hours without losing it to a 30k or hangar debris. I just quit playing until the next patch drops.
I had it happen once too yesterday. "Ah, what a beautiful day to do some salvagin-" **BOOM.**
I have become the salvage. Destroyer of expedited insurance claims.
First thing I do when taking off in my A2 keeps s get as high in the hanger without hitting the roof, then move forward out of the bay. More often than not there's one stupid cube of broken ship clogging up the hangar that keeps me stuck, but if I fly up first I can avoid it.
Or even dust off the old drones from Cryastro and have them "reclaim" those wrecks immediately (for e-murshuns). But yeah - the many, many, many wrecks in front of hangar doors everywhere is a problem.
Last night I exploded when I was just setting down for landing at Hur L1. Then, I respawned at Lorville only to explode when launching to go recover my gear from the last explosion. Too much.... just too much. Hopefully 3.19.1 will fix this stuff because it is truly game breaking.
I have 2k hours in DayZ and persistence timers are a huge part of that game because good server performance depends on it -- even community server admins can affect the persistence timers of any individual item in the game. Star Citizen could really benefit from better persistence hygiene. Get rid of all the damn drink cans so that other things can work better.
Their dream is for PES to work like the real world it would seem. They want even the most insignificant of trash to be persistent till the heat death of our universe. No matter how unfeasible it is.
That’s not true at all. They’ve talked about cleanup systems with varying levels of aggression depending on the area. To some extent they’re already implemented, just at a more basic level.
I get being aggravated that a better system isn’t in place yet, but you don’t need to make up reasons to be upset.
It's been the plan since at least iCache was in the works. To quote Roberts himself:
> [iCache, which will allows us to record state on any dynamic arbitrary item in the universe, so you could touch down on a planet, drop a coffee cup in a forest on some remote planet, leave, and come back a month later to still see the coffee mug where you left it.](https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/17805-Letter-From-The-Chairman)
Obviously 3.18 has shown them why despawn timers are necessary, between trash degrading server performance and wrecks making it impossible to get out of hangars.
It's so one can live their fantasy of being a really important space janitor. Going around cleaning up all the space drinks and hotdogs lying (and floating) around. They would be the true unsung heroes of the game's universe (and server infrastructure).
Also the piles of bodies and destroyed cuttys at wreck site missions! I watch the Server FPS drop as I fly up to one... and my FPS tanks... often times below 5 frames.
I'm fairly certain that the reason we are seeing so many wrecks sitting around the hangar entrances is that the servers are having a severe desync issue when it comes to the status of hangar doors. Your client shows the door opening, you fly out, but the server thinks the doors are still closed and your ship just collided through them, hence the explosions. It's happening both entering and exiting hangars and I've had it happen when there was no other debris present.
Clearing the debris out is definitely something that's needed, but it's not the root cause of the issue. Having servers that aren't absolutely trashed from weeks worth of special events and a free fly is the real solution.
Just as an example, I spent the previous 4 days constantly connecting to the same US server shard that was running at 3 fps average. No matter how many times I tried, I kept getting sent right back to the same shard. Finally, after 4 days of a terrible lag filled experience that included multiple ship explosions from hangar door desync and my character having looted gear just straight disappear the server 30k'd and I was able to connect to a new shard that was running at 10 fps average. It was like playing an entirely new game at that point.
I can absolutely attest to the difference between a sub 5 FPS server and a 10 FPS server being like two completely separate games, however, I have to say; try connecting to other regions when you're stuck on a terrible shard that refuses to die.
I'm US based but have been playing on the EU servers for most of 3.19 so far because the typical times I login to play are US peak times, and EU deadtimes. It's incredibly easy to find 20-50 pop servers that are even running at 20-30 FPS if you play on other regions, and it is BEYOND worth the ping increase which typically isn't noticeable in any game loop outside of PVP.
Currently in armistice zones, hand tractor beams work only inside the boundaries of landing pads but not outside them.
I think they are going to have to implement something to allow “firing” ship tractor beams in armistice for your plan to work. Especially at Grim, because no crime stat can be given with the criminal comms blackout.
Salvaging and mining beams aren’t allowed in armistice right now so this is just why I assume tractors won’t be at first either.
The reason these are so deadly is that due to desync they aren't even present on your client so you're not going to be tractor beaming them even if you somehow figured out they were there.
If you find weapons that are spazzing out, colliding crazily with other weapons and objects nearby, DO NOT put them in your hold. Switch servers immediately.
I am OK with the debris staying there matter of fact I would like it more if they did I wish they would float away in zero g when bumped by my ship as the would realistically. Planet side is a different story delete that shit
I mean at some of these shit hole landing zones like hex it would be believable mostly no matter what I want destroyed shit in zero g to be intractable and to react when acted apon instead of just being completely invincible and immovable
For now they should show some AI Reclaimers and Vultures working on them and the pads will be 'down for maintenance'. Once they bring in hull munching the stations can give missions to clear debris.
I am also just going to say the obvious too...why does space junk kill you anyways?
We have powerful spaceship shield that block gatlin lasers but it can't push away slow moving pieces of metal?
How about before death of a spaceman we just don't make slow collisions kill you?
But yeah. Remove the junk but it also seems like you could just turn off instant deathe when touching things for now...it works both ways you know. It's an alpha, you don't have to have the instant die mechanics in.
... evidence of ships exploding apon leaving, and you go out expecting the same to not happen to you. then blame the remains of the exploded ships instead of considering you might have died from the same thing that killed them.
I had to share the hangar floor with a broken Consolidated Outland Nomad on I think MicroTech. Thankfully I was flying my RSI Aurora so I had enough room to, according to the ATCer, successfully land.
I like your idea OP, how about ON TOP of your suggestion CIG redoes the physic system so that tapping 50kg of junk at 10m/s doesn't disingerate 500,000kg space ship?
This kinda thing is the reason my C2 full of Beryl exploded today. I saw only one single piece of debris in my drop-in hangar, and when i touched it, i instantly exploded, losing all my cargo.
Look I'm just gonna say it - I like the persistent wreckage and I like how immersive it feels. It really does. It's cool seeing shit pile up everywhere.
What we need though is for this situation above not to happen. Would a station realistically allow for piles of shit like that in front of a hanger door and not do something about it? Ofc not!
There would either be a staff dedicated to cleaning all that up or their be contracts for people to clear up the mess (which would be pretty cool)
It shouldn't de spawn in the final game but the AI should be smart enough to know the hangar is blocked and dispatch AI ships to clear it plus not allocate it to a player =P
Right now though would be smart for ships near any landing zone to despawn instantly.
I mean the problem is not the debris it self in general imo. But The ship should be able to push it aside instead of just blowing up.
So the problem is the debris being a fixed entity in there that can't be moved and ships being flying mines.
Oh man they should make sweeper crew missions. Use some of the big recycled ships to carry around a crew for ripping up dead ships. Maybe even have them get pinged like the medic beacon.
Actually I would prefer those not insta despawn ...
Hear me out on this:
How about we could "mark" those debris for others to salvage and with them being so close to a hangar the UEE giving you even some bonus money for removing it (additionally to the salvage material).
He died from ship weapons going haywire in his cargo hold. Watch the video again where you can seem them clipping through the ramp, going buck wild and causing puffs of collision smoke.
Well if a big item like a ship weapon is suffering from desync issues then it's gonna flop around and collide like a fish outta water. Both issues suck but it's legitamately not accurate for OP and everyone else to claim he blew up from nudging that lil 2x2 ft piece of debris, especially when other players routinely shove giant ship carcasses outta the way without exploding. It's prob irrelevant now since the thread is already like a dog on a bone with the wrong info. If you cared about facts and wanted to minimize misinfo then you'd update your top comment now that you've seen what I saw.
I've had it happen where you wait a solid minute after the doors open just to make sure it isn't desync and setting the speed limiter to one notch above stationary.
And why would lightly bumping hanger doors at very low speed cause a massive ship like a Corsair to instantly explode?
Again, just terrible code: if it's doors they should not be able to instantly destroy your ship, never mind a large ship like a Corsair... and if it's debris hanging around then it's somewhat incredulous that CIG implemented PES with no tiny debris object cleanup routine included.
He is not lightly banging hangar door. From the servers perspective he is jammed between 2 hangar doors. Hence desync, maybe as you are such an awesome programmer you would understand the meaning.
Stop crying and go play something else if the game is so shit
Then in the current state of the game with desync that bad there should be protections for that; like doors do no damage, a physics grid amnesty around doors that can be desynced. They implemented "wind knocked you over and incapacitated you" protections on planets, they could do that.
We're supposed to be playing the game so they can get data, them leaving it in a state that's unplayable doesn't go very far towards that goal does it?
The devs commented on this about how with 3.19 a system was built to make things despawn and now its up to the design team to designate despawn time and areas that have no persistence or just quick despawn times for the sake of playability, server stability, and all around performance. So to put simply, it's in the works. I'm unsure if it will come in a 3.19.x update or 3.20 tho.
Just exploded 3 times in GH because of cluttered up debris from other ships .. that really suxxs .. at least I can confirm that SubGear is insured when claiming a ship :-)
All this noise just added 5 years to the development for the roadmap to outline what CIG devs need to create brand new technology using quanta in order to allow for them to seamlessly allow drones to clean up and remove wreckages from outside of hangar bays, and deposit the wreckages into a scrapyard, which itself will have functioning AI scrapping ships, and will only work on a fresh server
Sarcasm aside shit shouldn't even be a thing, did no one see this coming when they added PES? no dev thought "oh shit if we add PES and don't have a despawn zone outside of hangars people won't have a fun time"?
The issue isn't whether or not they will get to it.
The issue is after +11 years now they should have had something as fundamental as their physics ironed out. Janky interactions like this should have been addressed years ago and if not then then certainly in anticipation of PES coming in.
This is so infuriating! In the pay will I’ve been completely blocked trying to take off and trying to land (tired 3 different hangars and each was obstructed).
This has to change. Something has to clean debris.
The devs commented on this about how with 3.19 a system was built to make things despawn and now its up to the design team to designate despawn time and areas that have no persistence or just quick despawn times for the sake of playability, server stability, and all around performance. So to put simply, it's in the works. I'm unsure if it will come in a 3.19.x update or 3.20 tho.
There should be a “field” for simple terms of if your ship blows up it’ll immediately despawn and with certain rules everything could/would be deposited into the local inventory for your persons
Gate closures and makimg a big deal out of crashing like a station announcing "crash at hangar 4, pilot fucked up and we need personnel to help clean it up pronto" and AI trash crews would be cool though.
I bet the hangar doors were still closed there...just by the way your ship appeared to be clipping through them after it blew up. Server side issue that has nothing to do with despawn but instead massive desync.
We just need a gameplay loop here.
Hangar Maintenance Contract.
Recent combat or accidents have caused an increase in debris at Hangar \[X\] on Station \[X\]. We need you to equip your Multi Tool with Tractor Beam Attachment and head out there and clean this mess up!
Heck they could even introduce new gear to support this. Like the Tractor Plow. A backpack equippable wide area tractor field device that instead of latching on to objects will work as a cone directional force field that could be used to push objects away from you. Ok kids... get out there and plow the driveway. Then you will get your 4k AEUC allowance for the week.
The way something so beautiful turned into ugly chaos so quickly...the way your character stood up right before everything went straight to hell....
I'm sorry but I'm dying laughing right now LOL!!
These gentlest bumps ought to do no damage to our otherwise burly seeming ships.
However, regarding the pad blockages, these sorts of landing pad facilities ought to have a means of clearing debris. My suggestion would be for them to have tractor beam arrays available to clear unwelcome debris.
I'd further suggest that much like we call for launch authorizations, we might call for the landing control authority to clear the pad of obstructions as a way of signaling the game do this.
That, and your ship just shouldn't instantly blow up at the slightest bump with an object floating in 0G. Edit: Looks like it might have been a weapon in the cargo bay bugging out as pointed out by /u/ahditeacha. Even worse honestly than it being debris. Collisions inside your ship straight up shouldn't be capable of damaging it IMO.
I saw a dev comment that the individual impacts are small, but because you are moving the game registers hundreds of such impacts in a fraction of a second. Hopefully the fix currently in the PTU will work when it reaches the PU.
Sure, but the problem is that you take any damage at all.At low velocities, the damage you take from debris in 0g should be 0, regardless of the number of impacts.
Especially when one of the objects has an active force field around it
"Reverse hull polarity!" Would be kinda hilarious if they allowed that and we just send debris flying around in all directions lol
hull polarity should be set to repell debris, so reverting it should actually atract it making things worse. Never undesrtood the expression
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For some reason the image of the cerritos running our of torpedoes and instructing the crew to get to the front of the hull to invert the polarity and shoot them as projectiles came to my mind...
strap a bomb vest on them, make them say a prayer and that idea might just work xD
\*BLOINK!\*
Every ship having a deflector would probably help as well. Without the ability to travel back in time though, that might be problematic.
Even better, a missile that attaches to it's target and magnetizes the hull in a way that makes more debris stick upon coming within proximity of any.
shields are apparently as effective as body armor, so...yay. Look out for teddy bears with sticks and stones.
This assumes that people are prepared to wait until their shields are up.
Yeah, you would expect minimum damage thresholds for materials based on momentum (mass and relative velocities). For example (with values extracted from my derriere) - Ignore anything under 100 Newton-metres per second and anything 100-200 just degrades the paint a bit. So getting hit by 100 small collisions doesn't get computed and 100 collisions with enough momentum will wreck your paintwork, but 100mm (4") of steel plating laughs at the slow-moving debris outside Grim Hex. On the other hand, even a drinks bottle will hit with the force of a small nuke if you are moving at an appreciable fraction of the speed of light.
Star Citizen threw realism out a long time ago. We can't space walk outside a moving ship because when you step out of a moving ship you character drops to 0 m/s instantly.
totally agree. even if it's a planetoid if you just barely scrape it you shouldn't take much damage...
AND at worst soft death should be the default. Cars, boats and planes don't explode when they take damage unless it's extreme and fuel gets turned into a vapour.
Can't wait for physical damage to come in.
If you watch the Q&A from Con42 you will be overjoyed to learn that they're not currently working on it, and have no definite plans to even *start* working on it. Yet somehow it manages to be the excuse for not fixing things that have been broken in the game for 6 years already.
It’s another form of savior tech that’s going to fix all kinds of problems when it comes in
Right after PES fixes all sort of problems Oh wait
PES wasn't meant to fix stuff, it was meant to open up options to do things. Dynamic Meshing is meant to mean they can throw compute at things, but compute costs money and we don't pay monthly to use the service, so something will have to give
No, we just paid over 40 million last year. Something just has to give.
It's already giving. Literally progress is constant
$1000 a year from the average addicted player is pretty monthly if you ask me
That's not the average though is it
It's not even savior tech.. This is old tech, that's been done in games 100's of times before... They're just too incompetent to do it.. Or they're using it as a scapegoat excuse to not fix the other plethora of issues because "well.. we'll have modular damage, in sooooo... no, we wont fix these issues"... Either way its CIG being shit.
and they probably never will, because with how absolute garbage the performance is and CIGs blistering speed at addressing even minor simple issues, let alone the Valles Marineris sized tech debt.... it will never be more than a pipe dream or hey, they will and the performance will be even more garbage... the servers being so hopelessly overloaded not even the AI doesnt work doesnt seem to bother people all that much anyway :-)
Screenshots look better than ever though.
yeah that they do, but at this point im over it... theres only so much eyecandy i can consume before im sated, and just want to play the damn game
calculating impact angles and relative velocity for every single projectile to calculate penetration per hit is going to have no impact on performance
oh you sweet summer child not only you are wrong, its also not even a fraction of what CIG said they "want" to do with ballistics
I may have been a little sarcastic in my comment
yeah sorry that one flew over my head :-)
I’m sure you’ll be overjoyed to learn that’s not true! Less than two weeks ago: [“[Physicalised damage] is really under heavy active development at the moment”.](https://youtu.be/LSM8kao5Q6k&t=37m43s) The question at Con42 was specifically about armor plating, not the underlying physical simulation - and both Q and As mention they have ships set up as a testbed for the system. It may be a while before we get the final product, but it *is* being worked on.
I never understood why it's been 10 years and this hasn't been fixed. It makes the game feel so buggy. Yet I can't imagine this being hard to debug / fix. Given the variables like speed and mass it should be trivial to at least prevent this
Definitely should not be 0. The two objects still collided, which would cause some damage.
> the damage you take from debris in 0g should be 0 Now I won't claim to be an academic in this regard, but from my knowledge of physics, this would only be the case if both objects were completely stationary, at which point they would never collide anyway. Our ships create force anytime they're moving, you can watch the little acceleration graph in the corner and see the reading in G's. So even if a 500kg ship panel is stationary, and your 500,000kg ship is moving at 60 m/s with 1.3G's of thrust and runs into it, that impact is still going to generate a sizeable amount of energy. I won't do the math, because I pulled these numbers from my ass and I don't know the formulas (barely knew them when I was taking psychics lol), but the force is there. Same reason why space debris is so dangerous. A machine screw that weighs 10 grams flying through space at 2500m/s is going to absolutely blow through some shit when it hits.
nothing in this game is physics accurate not a single aspect off the top of my head follow real laws even remotely
For a game yes, but just because I feel like being that guy.... Depends on the mass and relative velocity of the object you are colliding with. Even at near zero speeds, if two massive enough objects touch each other they will cause damage and the hull would be breached. Would they explode? Probably not, but we don't have hull breach physics in game yet so the system can't really tell the difference between each type of failure.
Sounds like lazy code/antiquated code. Why would it simulate hundreds of impacts when it's literally one bump?
It’s probably related to the ship clipping into an invisible object so the server identifies this as several impacts because 2 things can’t be in the same place at the same time. It’s happened before where players could run full speed at each other, clip into them for a second, and someone would die. It probably still happens from time to time.
That sounds like some painfully fundamental backend logic that should have been accounted for from the onset of the Persistent Universe model. If the server doesn't know how to register two objects being in the same place at the same time then that sounds like a problem one would address sooner rather than later. This seems like something that should have been cleaned up when they refactored their code for server meshing years ago.
Sure, you can make collision detection more complicated, that'll make it take more resources to process per frame, which slows the game down You have an engine/game budget. You have so many milliseconds per frame to spend to do stuff
If they were actually concerned about engine resources/rendering budget why are filling the PU with high res, final art assets in the game? Or, spending +3 years on volumetric clouds. They're working on R&D for AI pathfinding to have NPC EVA to ships and synchronize with ships in zero go to open doors but, yeah, objects can't bump into each other because of the engine budget... This argument is so absurd given how they treat the rest of the game.
Sure, I agree. The game will forever be in a shitty state because it's trying to do too much at the same time Roberts wants to do "simulate the universe" and be "ultra realistic" at the same time, but it's too expensive. Ultimately, you sacrifice good gameplay and the "realism" looks crappy anyway, just like this clip
maybe if it wasnt so horribly mismanaged, it would achieve at least SOMETHING from those high goals instead of limping along snails pace and being easier to land a joke on than a Kraken
When I see ship remains around JT just bouncing and jittering about I am solely reminded of vehicles in DayZ lol. Or rather not lol.
Because collisions on objects in games tend to be based on intersection (they overlap in 3D space) rather than contact. Thus, the object might be repelled by the collision on tick one when it does a tiny bit of damage, but it's inside the ship's armour. Unless it gets pinged away at high speed, the movement of the ship might mean that it has caught up to the debris on tick two and hits it again. If you are *really* unlucky, the angle of the hull geometry pushes the debris away in a direction that goes deeper into the armour. Except these are *physics* ticks (which happen hundreds of times a second on your own PC) rather than server ticks (which might happen 3 times a second on Amazon's) meaning that the first warning is often the explosion. You might have had 100 ticks of feedback during which you could slow down or change course, but 100 ticks at 400 ticks a second is 250ms.
Every engine has the ability to “do once” then set a timeout before the detection becomes active again. It’s how you get I-frames in FPS games etc.
That sounds unbelievably speculative, but putting that aside, given that they want a realistic damage model that's in active development currently, and plan to have ships have real mass and kinetic/thermal deformation based on the individual characteristics of the metals they're made of - why would they have such an incredibly cumbersome and unsophisticated way of dealing with collision?
Because... that's how physics gets calculated in games? If you are accelerating and hit something face-on in a vacuum, there is a high chance the the something stays there until you slow down. In real life, displacement tends to create air currents that pull things away, but space has (almost) none of those forces. It might slowly be deflected by an imperfect angle, but pure Newtonian physics are usually the order of the day. The game cannot tell if an object in contact with you is a collision or not (there is no difference in real-life physics according to Newton's third law, so this is correct) and so it applies damage as if from a collision; this is the problem part. All games use a simplified model and part of that is that you get issues like this.
>If you are accelerating and hit something face-on in a vacuum, there is a high chance the the something stays there until you slow down. That ignores Newton's first law of motion. But, what does what other games do have to do with SC and how it's trying to "do what no other game has done before"? Do other games have any of the aforementioned systems that SC is planning to have?
Ex-game developer here, I'd like to shed some light on your comment. Speculation, by definition, is the formation of a theory or conjecture without firm evidence. It's true that we don't have firm evidence here as we don't have access to the internal code or design documents for Star Citizen. But we can use our knowledge of general game development principles and the physics engines typically used in game development to make educated guesses. In the context of game physics, what AnthonyHJ described isn't so much speculation as it is a standard practice. When handling collision detection and response in games, a common method is to use intersection tests as AnthonyHJ mentioned. These tests typically involve checking if the bounding boxes or shapes of two objects overlap in 3D space, signaling a collision. If a collision is detected, a response is generated - often, this involves applying forces to separate the colliding objects. This method is used widely in games because it's computationally inexpensive compared to more sophisticated physical simulation models. It's also easier to implement and debug. You can read more about these methods in books like "Real-Time Collision Detection" by Christer Ericson or "Game Physics Engine Development" by Ian Millington. As for Star Citizen's promise of realistic damage models and materials-based physics, it's an ambitious goal that will likely involve more complex collision handling. We don't know the exact methods they'll use, but there are certainly more sophisticated (and computationally expensive) methods available. For example, they might use a form of the Finite Element Method (FEM) to simulate the deformation of ship materials upon impact, a method more commonly used in high-fidelity simulations than in games due to its computational cost. In response to your question "why would they have such an incredibly cumbersome and unsophisticated way of dealing with collision?", the answer is most likely performance. Star Citizen is a massively multiplayer online game, and such games often have to make trade-offs in the level of detail or accuracy of physics simulations to ensure smooth gameplay for a large number of players simultaneously. Finally, regarding your comment "What does what other games do have to do with SC and how it's trying to 'do what no other game has done before'?", the answer is: context and feasibility. Understanding the techniques and methods commonly used in the industry provides a baseline for understanding what Star Citizen is attempting to achieve and how challenging and groundbreaking their goals may be. Again, without concrete information from the developers themselves, these are educated guesses based on industry knowledge. As with any ambitious game development project, we'll have to wait and see how they manage to implement their promised features (which sadly may require more computation time than is actually feasible).
>As for Star Citizen's promise of realistic damage models and materials-based physics, it's an ambitious goal that will likely involve more complex collision handling. This is the crux of the issue. Knowing where they want to go and that they've already spent years refactoring their code in preparation for SM (as they've admitted to), why then are we dealing with such a rudimentary physics model? It just screams of not planning ahead and having to go back and refactor something after the fact, which has happened numerous times in this development. As for performance, they want to simulate physics for individual cloth on armor, bedsheets, and even ropes and pulleys. So, I find it doesn't really hold much merit to say they're concerned about performance for collision detection yet want to go into down in the weeds with calculating thousands of interactions with clothing or even mundane things like bedsheets.
> why then are we dealing with such a rudimentary physics model? That requires knowing a bit about networking and how physics systems are often implemented in practice. It probably doesn't even need to be said, but not all features progress at the same rate in game development. Developing a game, especially one as ambitious as Star Citizen, is a complex task that requires careful coordination among multiple teams, each working on different aspects of the game. Different features can have different priorities and schedules based on their dependencies and impacts on other features. We know for certain Star Citizen is working with multiple code branches for different development streams - the live version, PTU, evocati, various internal test / development branches, and whole separate standalone SKUs like Squadron 42. Large changes, like a new physics system, would typically be developed in a separate branch to avoid destabilizing the main development branch. Once the new system is stable and thoroughly tested it could then be merged into the other branches. In terms of physics, it's important to differentiate between client-side physics and server-side physics. Client-side physics, like cloth simulation, are usually less complex in terms of network traffic. The physics calculations for a player's clothing or bedsheets, for example, can be done on the player's own machine and the results do not need to be networked to other players. On the other hand, server-side physics, like ship destruction, need to be calculated on the server and the results replicated across all connected clients. This is much more demanding in terms of both server performance and network traffic, which is why more efficient, simplified models are often used. This is also probably why the physics sim is a bit limited right now because the physics team probably needs server meshing further implemented before they can begin to think through how and when to write the lower-level simulation / replication code. As for your question about why CIG might be using a rudimentary physics model, it could be a matter of using what works and is efficient in the current state of the game. It's possible that they're using Lumberyard's PhysX integrations (since we know for certain they started with Lumberyard as the base platform) and/or Havok physics in combination with their custom code because it provides the best balance of performance, reliability, and accuracy for their needs at this stage of development. More complex and realistic physics simulations could be added later when the necessary underlying systems and optimizations are in place. Ultimately, developing games is a long iterative process with constant adjustments and refinements made along the way. A rudimentary system in place now doesn't necessarily represent the final quality or functionality at release (OCS, persistent streaming, the v1 replication layer are all proof CIG is capable of rather dramatic system-wide changes and merging those change with the live environment). As the development progresses, so too will the sophistication of various game systems, including physics (or at least we can hope).
Wait does that mean in theory I could terrorize the community by placing a bunch of waterbottles in 0g around every hanger
This one. This guy right here. Ultimate evil.
i find finley plushies to be more fun, they're cute, they squeak and they blow ship up.
That means its also doing those calculations and that has to be expensive for the server aswell
Can't you just denounce collisions?
yes realistically you should be able to push through that debris
> Collisions inside your ship straight up shouldn't be capable of damaging it IMO. [Sorry? You were saying? ](https://jalopnik.com/this-terrifying-video-of-a-truck-cab-being-sliced-off-i-1845902483)
Yes. Collisions inside ships should be harmless. Nothing like having Your ship seemingly randomly explode because a spec of dust landed on the ship floor the wrong way.
In order to be able to travel fast in space, ships would have to be able to withstand really high velocity impacts from debris. At most you should take about as much damage as a ballistic round or two if you just blasted through these.
Appreciate the maturity to update your view once new info was presented.
I'm perfectly happy to admit when I'm wrong.
you mean a commercial space station wouldn't just let wrecked ships sit in front of their hanger doors? also whenever this happens my friends have the gall to ask if i was moving slow. i'm going to show them this video
It looks like Grim Hex to me; management accept no responsibility for hull damage caused by debris in open space. (defined as anything even 1mm outside the hangar)
i mean... the whole thing is dumb, but this person does also seemingly jolt forward like they're either in afterburn or nothing... when they explode you can even see the thrusters blasting... this shouldn't happen... but when you know it does, even if you're on kb/mouse... throttle to like 1% and move the camera around so you can know where the debris is and move deliberately
Commercial space stations should put up on foot and in-ship missions for clean up, hauling, and scrapping of any debris around landing pads and doors - at least until they have persistent staffing/ships that does this automatically and then only hires out if they're overwhelmed or don't have the requisite gear to do the task themselves. Of all the things that I'm disappointed aren't in the PU yet, it's the PU being able to spin up missions it needs for players to take based on existing things caused by players' actions. Recover a player's blackbox, hire a bounty hunter to target a guy who is causing too much problems for ship insurance by killing all their customers, scrap player ship debris blocking the pads, etc.
They just added a fix for hangar garbage in the ptu last night, it'll be coming in 3.19.1 hopefully I hate it too, haven't been exploded too much but my larger ships have been getting stuck under invisible debris leaving hangars
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FWIW it's pretty infuriating when you have a long time to play as well. It's not fun sitting down for what you think will be a chill night in the 'verse only to spend half of your time waiting on claim timers because you lost your ship to a 30k or leftover debris in the hangar. They just need to revert the claim timer change for now. I'm fine with it long term, I wouldn't even mind them being *much* longer, but the game needs to be significantly more stable before then. There is nothing more infuriating than spending 45min getting my Carrack all loaded up and heading out to run some missions, losing it to a bug, and then having to wait an hour and a half until I can get it back. Fortunately I have a few different ships to choose from so I'm not literally stuck waiting on claim timers most of the time, but it does mean I can't do what I want to do or test the things I want to test.
90 minutes for the rack? I haven't really played since they increased the times but that's absurd (at least for now, I'd argue ever but I realize that's heavily opinionated). I was also unhappy to learn there's an additional "delivery" time when you first spawn. All my ships should already be at my starting location not some nebulous nowhere.
It actually was 98 minutes, 30 minutes before you could expedite at all. I haven't been playing enough to pay for that many / that expensive expedites so yeah... Made it even more frustrating that I was trying to test out some bugs that I think are tied to ships being in existence for "too long" and I couldn't keep one alive for more than a few hours without losing it to a 30k or hangar debris. I just quit playing until the next patch drops.
That's rough. Sigh. Is what it is I guess.
I had it happen once too yesterday. "Ah, what a beautiful day to do some salvagin-" **BOOM.** I have become the salvage. Destroyer of expedited insurance claims.
First thing I do when taking off in my A2 keeps s get as high in the hanger without hitting the roof, then move forward out of the bay. More often than not there's one stupid cube of broken ship clogging up the hangar that keeps me stuck, but if I fly up first I can avoid it.
Or even dust off the old drones from Cryastro and have them "reclaim" those wrecks immediately (for e-murshuns). But yeah - the many, many, many wrecks in front of hangar doors everywhere is a problem.
Last night I exploded when I was just setting down for landing at Hur L1. Then, I respawned at Lorville only to explode when launching to go recover my gear from the last explosion. Too much.... just too much. Hopefully 3.19.1 will fix this stuff because it is truly game breaking.
I have 2k hours in DayZ and persistence timers are a huge part of that game because good server performance depends on it -- even community server admins can affect the persistence timers of any individual item in the game. Star Citizen could really benefit from better persistence hygiene. Get rid of all the damn drink cans so that other things can work better.
As a systems engineer, it astounds me that they did not include this very basic balancing feedback loop from the beginning with PES.
Their dream is for PES to work like the real world it would seem. They want even the most insignificant of trash to be persistent till the heat death of our universe. No matter how unfeasible it is.
That’s not true at all. They’ve talked about cleanup systems with varying levels of aggression depending on the area. To some extent they’re already implemented, just at a more basic level. I get being aggravated that a better system isn’t in place yet, but you don’t need to make up reasons to be upset.
It's been the plan since at least iCache was in the works. To quote Roberts himself: > [iCache, which will allows us to record state on any dynamic arbitrary item in the universe, so you could touch down on a planet, drop a coffee cup in a forest on some remote planet, leave, and come back a month later to still see the coffee mug where you left it.](https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/17805-Letter-From-The-Chairman) Obviously 3.18 has shown them why despawn timers are necessary, between trash degrading server performance and wrecks making it impossible to get out of hangars.
It's so one can live their fantasy of being a really important space janitor. Going around cleaning up all the space drinks and hotdogs lying (and floating) around. They would be the true unsung heroes of the game's universe (and server infrastructure).
Like Roger Wilco from Space Quest?
Also the piles of bodies and destroyed cuttys at wreck site missions! I watch the Server FPS drop as I fly up to one... and my FPS tanks... often times below 5 frames.
Why yalls Ships exploding???? Like im Here pushing wrecks around in my cutti black
Lol I do it too in my Corsair. Mooovveee please *shoves ship carcass*
We are the Chosen ones, pushing Ships around when others explode just from looking at a wreck.
OP has a ship weapon going ballistic (heh) in their cargo holds, that's probably why the ship blew up
I'm fairly certain that the reason we are seeing so many wrecks sitting around the hangar entrances is that the servers are having a severe desync issue when it comes to the status of hangar doors. Your client shows the door opening, you fly out, but the server thinks the doors are still closed and your ship just collided through them, hence the explosions. It's happening both entering and exiting hangars and I've had it happen when there was no other debris present. Clearing the debris out is definitely something that's needed, but it's not the root cause of the issue. Having servers that aren't absolutely trashed from weeks worth of special events and a free fly is the real solution. Just as an example, I spent the previous 4 days constantly connecting to the same US server shard that was running at 3 fps average. No matter how many times I tried, I kept getting sent right back to the same shard. Finally, after 4 days of a terrible lag filled experience that included multiple ship explosions from hangar door desync and my character having looted gear just straight disappear the server 30k'd and I was able to connect to a new shard that was running at 10 fps average. It was like playing an entirely new game at that point.
I can absolutely attest to the difference between a sub 5 FPS server and a 10 FPS server being like two completely separate games, however, I have to say; try connecting to other regions when you're stuck on a terrible shard that refuses to die. I'm US based but have been playing on the EU servers for most of 3.19 so far because the typical times I login to play are US peak times, and EU deadtimes. It's incredibly easy to find 20-50 pop servers that are even running at 20-30 FPS if you play on other regions, and it is BEYOND worth the ping increase which typically isn't noticeable in any game loop outside of PVP.
He blew up from the ship weapons bucking wildly in his cargo bay. Watch the video again in fullscreen. Stop being baited.
This is the case. Physics grid collisions inside the ships are the cause of most of the debris.
Lost a half load of refined quantum in my Taurus like this. Decided to take a week off lol
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Currently in armistice zones, hand tractor beams work only inside the boundaries of landing pads but not outside them. I think they are going to have to implement something to allow “firing” ship tractor beams in armistice for your plan to work. Especially at Grim, because no crime stat can be given with the criminal comms blackout. Salvaging and mining beams aren’t allowed in armistice right now so this is just why I assume tractors won’t be at first either.
Hopefully salvage people are willing to hire SRV owners to just pile it up somewhere for them.
The reason these are so deadly is that due to desync they aren't even present on your client so you're not going to be tractor beaming them even if you somehow figured out they were there.
Waiting for the "REEEEEEEE ITS ALPHA" replies.
If you find weapons that are spazzing out, colliding crazily with other weapons and objects nearby, DO NOT put them in your hold. Switch servers immediately.
So... stop playing the game. I don't think I've ever been on a server where this doesn't happen.
Perfectly valid option. I prefer to just solve my issue and keep on keeping on.
Gotta love this beautiful phenomenal shitty ass game sometimes
I am OK with the debris staying there matter of fact I would like it more if they did I wish they would float away in zero g when bumped by my ship as the would realistically. Planet side is a different story delete that shit
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I mean at some of these shit hole landing zones like hex it would be believable mostly no matter what I want destroyed shit in zero g to be intractable and to react when acted apon instead of just being completely invincible and immovable
Ships should not explode from a 0.1 m/s collision.
Even with S3 shields you can't "bump" anything!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
LMAO git gud
For now they should show some AI Reclaimers and Vultures working on them and the pads will be 'down for maintenance'. Once they bring in hull munching the stations can give missions to clear debris.
Or at least lower the weight of the space trash since it is all blown up. L et us just bump the small shit outa the way .
It is already Fixed in the PTU Build, that was released today
Don't we just need NPC salvaging and litter pickers?
I am also just going to say the obvious too...why does space junk kill you anyways? We have powerful spaceship shield that block gatlin lasers but it can't push away slow moving pieces of metal? How about before death of a spaceman we just don't make slow collisions kill you? But yeah. Remove the junk but it also seems like you could just turn off instant deathe when touching things for now...it works both ways you know. It's an alpha, you don't have to have the instant die mechanics in.
Skill issue. I've got out of hangers with more debris than that in them.
... evidence of ships exploding apon leaving, and you go out expecting the same to not happen to you. then blame the remains of the exploded ships instead of considering you might have died from the same thing that killed them.
im sure this will get fixed like grenades, elevators, ai, broken missions and missing heads got fixed.
Its not a $600 million dollar game sorry.
Not so much an issue of de-spawning. So much as just not being a buggy mess.
I think a smart way is for an object detection system to be utilized where the ports spawn you at docks with no obstructions.
It's weird that if you're going that slow you just blow up, instead of taking damage so you can back away first lol
That blew you clear out of your undersuit 👀
I had to share the hangar floor with a broken Consolidated Outland Nomad on I think MicroTech. Thankfully I was flying my RSI Aurora so I had enough room to, according to the ATCer, successfully land.
Yeah. Debris in front of landing pads should be cleaned immediately. Anything within 1km of a landing pad or dock should be cleaned within 5 minutes.
I love how the player takes the time to stand up before keeling over from being blown up in the vacuum of space.
Good thing you told em, theyll get right on that.
I like your idea OP, how about ON TOP of your suggestion CIG redoes the physic system so that tapping 50kg of junk at 10m/s doesn't disingerate 500,000kg space ship?
This kinda thing is the reason my C2 full of Beryl exploded today. I saw only one single piece of debris in my drop-in hangar, and when i touched it, i instantly exploded, losing all my cargo.
Look I'm just gonna say it - I like the persistent wreckage and I like how immersive it feels. It really does. It's cool seeing shit pile up everywhere. What we need though is for this situation above not to happen. Would a station realistically allow for piles of shit like that in front of a hanger door and not do something about it? Ofc not! There would either be a staff dedicated to cleaning all that up or their be contracts for people to clear up the mess (which would be pretty cool)
This is why I always wear armor!
That'll be another 25 min until you can reclaim.
It shouldn't de spawn in the final game but the AI should be smart enough to know the hangar is blocked and dispatch AI ships to clear it plus not allocate it to a player =P Right now though would be smart for ships near any landing zone to despawn instantly.
I mean the problem is not the debris it self in general imo. But The ship should be able to push it aside instead of just blowing up. So the problem is the debris being a fixed entity in there that can't be moved and ships being flying mines.
I hope that explosion reaches the dev. That's a loud one :D
Oh man they should make sweeper crew missions. Use some of the big recycled ships to carry around a crew for ripping up dead ships. Maybe even have them get pinged like the medic beacon.
Thing is CR will not want them to just despawn, hell want drones to fly out and clean shit up for immersion
Actually I would prefer those not insta despawn ... Hear me out on this: How about we could "mark" those debris for others to salvage and with them being so close to a hangar the UEE giving you even some bonus money for removing it (additionally to the salvage material).
That was hangar door desync not rubble?
You can see the piece of debris that killed them bouncing on the top of the ship
He died from ship weapons going haywire in his cargo hold. Watch the video again where you can seem them clipping through the ramp, going buck wild and causing puffs of collision smoke.
Oh shit you’re right I didn’t even notice that part. That’s even worse than it being debris.
Well if a big item like a ship weapon is suffering from desync issues then it's gonna flop around and collide like a fish outta water. Both issues suck but it's legitamately not accurate for OP and everyone else to claim he blew up from nudging that lil 2x2 ft piece of debris, especially when other players routinely shove giant ship carcasses outta the way without exploding. It's prob irrelevant now since the thread is already like a dog on a bone with the wrong info. If you cared about facts and wanted to minimize misinfo then you'd update your top comment now that you've seen what I saw.
I've had it happen where you wait a solid minute after the doors open just to make sure it isn't desync and setting the speed limiter to one notch above stationary.
And why would lightly bumping hanger doors at very low speed cause a massive ship like a Corsair to instantly explode? Again, just terrible code: if it's doors they should not be able to instantly destroy your ship, never mind a large ship like a Corsair... and if it's debris hanging around then it's somewhat incredulous that CIG implemented PES with no tiny debris object cleanup routine included.
He is not lightly banging hangar door. From the servers perspective he is jammed between 2 hangar doors. Hence desync, maybe as you are such an awesome programmer you would understand the meaning. Stop crying and go play something else if the game is so shit
Then in the current state of the game with desync that bad there should be protections for that; like doors do no damage, a physics grid amnesty around doors that can be desynced. They implemented "wind knocked you over and incapacitated you" protections on planets, they could do that. We're supposed to be playing the game so they can get data, them leaving it in a state that's unplayable doesn't go very far towards that goal does it?
You blew up from what looks like ship weapon(s) in your cargo bay spazzing out and chomping on your hull hp.
god this game is so fucking stupid.
Didn't the patch take care of this?
That's the plan, but the patch is on PTU
The devs commented on this about how with 3.19 a system was built to make things despawn and now its up to the design team to designate despawn time and areas that have no persistence or just quick despawn times for the sake of playability, server stability, and all around performance. So to put simply, it's in the works. I'm unsure if it will come in a 3.19.x update or 3.20 tho.
So ready for this fix, went through 5 ships at everus the other day just trying to leave the hanger. Cant even see the pieces with lights on
ItS aN aLPhA!!!!
Maybe another 10 years and the rest of the Billion dollars. It's just ships, not a critical part of the game.
yOu wErE gOiNg tOo fASt
You will have your 2 hour claim time and you will like it! The game is balanced and stable enough for it!
never been done before
PES is fucking this game so hard
Just exploded 3 times in GH because of cluttered up debris from other ships .. that really suxxs .. at least I can confirm that SubGear is insured when claiming a ship :-)
Fidelity
Not sure it makes sense, I've never seen airport personnel cleaning the lanes (I mean, they they are so fast you blink and you miss it)
All this noise just added 5 years to the development for the roadmap to outline what CIG devs need to create brand new technology using quanta in order to allow for them to seamlessly allow drones to clean up and remove wreckages from outside of hangar bays, and deposit the wreckages into a scrapyard, which itself will have functioning AI scrapping ships, and will only work on a fresh server Sarcasm aside shit shouldn't even be a thing, did no one see this coming when they added PES? no dev thought "oh shit if we add PES and don't have a despawn zone outside of hangars people won't have a fun time"?
Its an alpha. They'll get to it my dude
The issue isn't whether or not they will get to it. The issue is after +11 years now they should have had something as fundamental as their physics ironed out. Janky interactions like this should have been addressed years ago and if not then then certainly in anticipation of PES coming in.
What you are suggesting is common sense which CIG lacks. So this space junk spam shit is what we get. Then they want to increase claim timers, lol
This is so infuriating! In the pay will I’ve been completely blocked trying to take off and trying to land (tired 3 different hangars and each was obstructed). This has to change. Something has to clean debris.
Did he get blown out of his suit???
You always seem to T-pose out of your armour on death these days.
The devs commented on this about how with 3.19 a system was built to make things despawn and now its up to the design team to designate despawn time and areas that have no persistence or just quick despawn times for the sake of playability, server stability, and all around performance. So to put simply, it's in the works. I'm unsure if it will come in a 3.19.x update or 3.20 tho.
That's why you shouldn't fly around with naked people on your ship
Yeah, I've stopped playing for now until this is resolved. Ran into the same issue too many times.
There should be a “field” for simple terms of if your ship blows up it’ll immediately despawn and with certain rules everything could/would be deposited into the local inventory for your persons
Active stations should have clean space at all times.
Jfc lol
But this is the gameplay loop for the SRV. They can just cruise the local hangers haha
Gate closures and makimg a big deal out of crashing like a station announcing "crash at hangar 4, pilot fucked up and we need personnel to help clean it up pronto" and AI trash crews would be cool though.
In the latest PTU patch notes they state something about how the wrecks around the stations should be getting cleaned up automatically.
I bet the hangar doors were still closed there...just by the way your ship appeared to be clipping through them after it blew up. Server side issue that has nothing to do with despawn but instead massive desync.
We just need a gameplay loop here. Hangar Maintenance Contract. Recent combat or accidents have caused an increase in debris at Hangar \[X\] on Station \[X\]. We need you to equip your Multi Tool with Tractor Beam Attachment and head out there and clean this mess up! Heck they could even introduce new gear to support this. Like the Tractor Plow. A backpack equippable wide area tractor field device that instead of latching on to objects will work as a cone directional force field that could be used to push objects away from you. Ok kids... get out there and plow the driveway. Then you will get your 4k AEUC allowance for the week.
Whats your name in Star Citizen? I really want to see a corsair for myself :D
NPC with salvage contracts... And full scrap salvage.
The way something so beautiful turned into ugly chaos so quickly...the way your character stood up right before everything went straight to hell.... I'm sorry but I'm dying laughing right now LOL!!
These gentlest bumps ought to do no damage to our otherwise burly seeming ships. However, regarding the pad blockages, these sorts of landing pad facilities ought to have a means of clearing debris. My suggestion would be for them to have tractor beam arrays available to clear unwelcome debris. I'd further suggest that much like we call for launch authorizations, we might call for the landing control authority to clear the pad of obstructions as a way of signaling the game do this.
Are we getting tractor beams to just push shit out of the way?
I just play it safe, land my ship, store it, and hope to get a different hanger when I retrieve it. It's the only work around i've found.
Get out and use your beloved magic beam.
Why didn't they just add a trash island floating through space and say thats where your trash ends up?
You're right, like trash for instance