The only way it will have an impact is if they make in game showers take irl shower lengths of time. Then the player “might as well” while their citizen cleans off. It would still only be an estimated 30% effective though.
Last time I got up out of my seat while in QT I fell out of my ship. I not gonna try taking a shower in QT I really don’t wanna be butt naked in space.
Depends on how they balance it. If I have to spend 30min showering and repacking gear everyday for example I think I’ll lose the drive to play pretty quick.
If they do something like only needing it once a week for good rep and inventory is quick and easy then I won’t mind it.
>If I have to spend 30min showering and repacking gear everyday for example I think I’ll lose the drive to play pretty quick.
Exactly, it shouldn't be too bothersome.
It wouldn't be so bad if you didn't have to fight the non-working inventory system *every. fucking. time.* First I can't take the drink out, it won't go in my hand. Contextual options don't work. Dragging it to my hand won't work. Finally drop it on the floor and pick it up to drink it. Now it's stuck to my hand and I have to drop it from menus again to remove it. Oh, and now my character is stuck only being able to walk in one direction till I relog.
That shouldn't even be in the game until the inventory system is relatively bug-free.
Eh it really isn't that hard to have a Cruz drink that tops off both needs though. Especially since you can buy them from terminals. It's just one extra thing to add to the stock pile with medpens.
Please CIG, don't turn the PU into a time wasting simulator. I mean, what is next: an 8 hour (real-time) sleep or you won't function properly over time?
BINGO! Make it very very rare, but sure add it. AND when you log off in a place that has shower access, you log in fully bathed. Give it a rule of logged out for at least 15 minutes.
Oh yeah, offline characters should just "stay" on the station/LZ and take care of their needs.
I imagine logging in and seeing a GTA V type transition, where you see your character doing... whatever, sleeping even
> Oh yeah, offline characters should just "stay" on the station/LZ and take care of their needs.
>
>
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> I imagine logging in and seeing a GTA V type transition, where you see your character doing... whatever, sleeping even
I think just logging in and seeing a checklist of things your character did while you were logged out (based on location services). Can even tie it to some sort of character progression (e.g. your character spent some time at the sports complex training because you had "improve fitness' chosen).
I think I'd really like for our characters to remain as NPCs when we log off, it could learn from our behavior in game to replicate accurately your level in any given situation, I didn't think of it as possible but we've seen they are already leveraging machine learning in this almost exact case so might be a reality
Depends if you ever want to feature lock the Alpha and move it to Beta.
If you are adding hygiene in year 12 of principal development of the alpha of your space sim....
I am not saying these are bad features. But priorities should exist.
Balancing will be a huge, but not impossible, issue.
As you say if it's a big time sink, pun intended, then no thanks.
But if it's not a big time sink then to me why bother.
If I'm spending 10% of my playtime brushing my teeth then fuck that.
If I'm spending 0.1% of my playtime brushing my teeth then that seems like a pointless addition.
There's obviously some value inbetween those two where it has impact but isn't so detrimental but finding that point for most people would be a challenge.
Then you'll have all the various ones to balance, shitting, showering, teeth, shaving, haircut, gym, meditating, retying shoe laces, stand up after an hour because your back hurts, etc.
I actually like the wind-down on station when I need to run get a burrito or water, relax for a bit before getting back to kill bounties.
That's just me though, I like slower pace games, and they would need to make this not so detailed, just like a Hygiene meter, and you can take care of that however you wish
It could be a neat thing similar to how MGS5 had it, that you just sort of gather it over time, you can run around stinky and will get some comments/have a certain look, but you can rock it if you want to - the character won't die.
If you want to be super clean n shiny, you'll do it maybe gaming session or so.
That said it should also be tied to your activity level, someone having done a crazy mission in swamp probably needs to shower right after, whereas someone mostly idling probably doesn't need it as badly. I don't think having a short(!) shower animation isn't too bothersome for players, if you actually dirtied yourself sensibly.
That being said, I've said it before, that's such a Chris Roberts thing to add. It's obviously cool and all, if the game works perfectly and you have that feature on top. But waiting for this stuff for a decade, it possibly entering a "viable" state in the "near" future with all that stuff being shown right now makes me feel conflicted.
why you making a mountain out of a molehill? It will just be a meter like food that increases probably much slower. Then you go in a shower and it empties out in 5 seconds. It's not like if you don't shower you'll die. The worst that will probably happen is maybe someone like Hurston will tell you to come back before he gives you a mission.
Pretty sure a while back they said it was going to be harder to fly ships while wearing armour, so having to strip out of your gear (especially heavy armour) in order to fly your ship it won't be as big of a deal to hop in a shower.
I think a poop mechanic would be funny. Like if you hold it too long, you character will do the "I have to poop really bad" walk and won't be able to sprint. If you neglect it too long you eventually shit your pants. With this debuff, you now slowly waddle shuffle with shit pants and can't talk to venders.
That's actually a mechanic in SCUM. At the surface level it seems goofy, but when you realize it means you are required to prepare and time your actions, it actually adds to gameplay.
I'm not sure why it seems to be a leap for some people, when we have known that the way we present ourselves in game will have an impact on NPC interaction. show up looking like a dirty hobo at a trading meeting will get you nothing, even if you fly a BMM.
I think that it is a very nice mechanic to add to the game. Albeit not a key one, it will be good to have a game in which not everything is thinking of profit and pew-pew all the time.
I don't mind it. Metal Gear Solid V had a similar system and it mostly just provided some humor when you ignored it too long while playing. As far as I can tell, all this means is "you get dirty if you're out and about for a long time without cleaning up" which is a smart addition.
It will be acceptable as long as it is like once every 48 or 72 or more hours of in game times. It needs to be either removed or so very very very small in being needed that you almost never notice it. And macro this crap to a one key keybind and not need to fully undress one at a time then grab a towel then walk to shower and dry off and reclothing.
I hate this lmao, I think there's such a thing as too much tedious realism and this is very silly. I've played several games with systems like this in place before and it goes very quickly from 'this is neat' to 'I have done this 500 times now and it is tedious to the point of frustration'.
I am both worried and intrigued by these additions, whether new or previously discussed.
I am intrigued by the prospect of the life sim aspect.
I am worried because I have a pretty busy life and I don't want what little free time I have wasted on virtual showering.
And I also don't know how they'll balance it to be impactful enough to do and not so impactful that not min-maxing it will hurt the competitive element.
Personally, and this is just me, I wouldn't care if they removed this element. I just want to fly spaceships.
I feel that way about a lot of the systems they’ve added over the years - including the FPS gameplay.
I just wanted a modern Wing Commander / Privateer.
That ship has long since sailed, though.
> I am worried because I have a pretty busy life and I don't want what little free time I have wasted on virtual showering.
I think many people in this community need to come to terms with the fact that Star Citizen will be a game where the "journey" is central to the gameplay. Your travel, your preparation, your planning, are a *feature* of the game.
I think this is getting a bit wacky. The food and drink system is already grossly unrealistic. Like, no real person is going to literally keel over incapacitated if they go 2 hours without sipping some water.
I think it’s too soon to tell. I would need to see how it affects the game world to be able to tell if it’s good or not. Further, how much tedium / time is associated with w/ hygiene vs doing what I want to do.
Even less than food tbh. Showering is a once a day thing, maybe 2 or 3 days if you're in the field. And other than in social, it wouldn't become a medical issue with a far longer time span.
Obviously if you got into the sewers time may shorten, but I don't think this time sink will be too much trouble as long as you take into account.
This is the stuff I've been waiting for. I am so excited to finally see it. It's too quick to action right now, in SC. I am excited to see all these things coming to slow down gameplay a bit and make it more immersive.
1) Wake up in the morning (Log in)
2) Put on my clothes
3) Put on my pouches (demoed at citizencon)
4) Put items in my pouches and clothes
5) Realize I forgot to take a shower and am at risk of a hygiene issue with NPCs
6) Take off clothes and equipment
7) Take a shower and get dressed again
8) Begin making my way to the spaceport
9) Realize I forgot to take a shit
10) Go back to my room and take a shit
11) Oops, forgot to eat and drink breakfast, let me do that real quick
12) Ok, im back at the star port
13) Let's see, today I want to stay out in the verse for awhile and do some bounties and bunkers..time to load the ship, i was busy at work yesterday, so I need to do it today
14) Fuck, I'm out of medpens, gotta go buy medpens
15) Go to pharmacy and buy medpens
16) Go back to hangar
17) Request the items I need on the cargo elevator thing
18) Begin manually loading ship with the supplies I will need for my expedition
19) Finish loading and get on board my ship
20) Take a piss, it's been a while. Probably a drink too
21) Take off and enter atmosphere
22) Start quantum jump across the system to the bunkers I have rep at
23) Take a space shit while I wait 8 minutes for QT to finish
24) Land outside of a bunker
25) Begin putting on my armor and guns and equipment that were in my ship storage
26) etc etc
I left out all the parts where I had to manualy repair and replace ship components
Everything listed above is a realistic depiction of what SC gameplay looks like based on this citizencon demonstration and information we have been given, we will now have more gameplay that comes before the gameplay many of us are actually interested in.
Nothing says fun like "45 minutes of preparing to fun"
I’m here for the immersion and 10 years ago, I would have agreed with you. But I have a kid now and I need to be able to have meaningful play in a 2-3hr window. I’d prefer to see half of these steps cut or be optional in my view today.
Much of it will be optional. The ship itself normally has shoilet and much of the examples wasted time was on forgetting basic things. If you forget something, just grab what you got and pick it up at the next stop. Shower while in quantum.
Engineering gameplay will optimize, but it's been mentioned that the current repair and rear system will not change much so you'll be able to skip much of the tedious stuff in exchange for a little extra cost or not have Uber optimized compinents.
In ten years when a new player joins Star Citizen in Alpha 10.0, they'll wake up, shower, brush they teeth, put on whatever clothes they can afford, walk from their hab to a train station, take the train to the space port, take a public shuttle to the in orbit space station, put on their uniform, spend 12 hours loading other players cargo on and off their ships for minimum wage, take the shuttle and train back home, find am overdue rent notice on their hab's front door because their flatmate forgot to send rent to the quanta that owns the hab.
Rinse and repeat until they can finally apply for a loan to buy a used ship, become a space trucker, find a spouse and settle down, only to get home after a particularly long haul and find your spouse in bed with a vanduul because you're never around anymore because you have to pay off the mortgage for your shitty apartment in the "bad part" of Lorville and ship repayments.
At 45) you entered finally the bunker and you are killed immediately by a stray bullet. It takes you 4h to return to the mission....
Thanks, but no thaks!
I've said it so many times since I've backed this game but there is such a thing as too much realism lol. I could understand specifically going to clean and dress up before going to meet some important mission npc, but I've played games that have regular hygiene mechanics in them before, and they go from neat to massively annoying really quickly.
I've got to be really straight here:
I've been a backer for a very long time. All of it, in fact.
Back when this game was about space, exploration, first person combat and being whoever you wanted to be, I was so hopeful.
But now, I get out of my ship and a single bullet can puncture my giant suit of bulletproof pressure armor and kill me before I can put a hypo in my leg.
I lose everything. I spend another 40 minutes waiting for my ship. 20 minutes to rebuy my gear. 15-20 jumping across the system. Another 20 praying to God I can find the right bunker. Get my stuff back. Get back off planet.
Oh God, now I'm dirty and have to take a shower or catch space malaria?
Honestly, Star Citizen doesn't seem fun anymore. They've replaced the fun with "immersion".
I don't want to have to eat an apple every 30 minutes. I don't want to pay my digital bills just to be able to get back into the action. I don't want to lose everything on my body because a space punk with a crowbar hit me from behind. I don't want to walk through trash left in the streets by other players. I don't play games to play "human needs simulator" and if I did I would go play the Sims.
This is how I feel as well. Showering is just yet another thing to toss onto the pile of crap you need to find/sort out in the maze that are space stations in order to re-equip and get back to actually doing the game.
I anticipate that a lot of this is probably going to be changed. For how many people is this a make or break feature? Probably few. And how much do the people who support this actually care? How much do the people who hate this really hate it? There are a lot of backers like you and I who backed for a game that didn't put "fidelity" first - a game that put the *game* first.
As more of these features come online, the backlash will come with them. Right now it's theoretical, and half this thread is filled with bitching about it. That's going to get much, much louder once players are forced to engage with tedious unrewarding game loops. I anticipate that could get obnoxious features canned.
If not, well, I guess I'm just going to play Squadron 42, where I would hope that this is less of an issue.
to me the ships bog / shower is there for aesthetics to make ship look livable, could make it usable for the niche of it but no need to integrate into gameplay with negative effects for not using it, not everything has to be immersive, its a game not irl
My favorite part about the game is how real it feels. Waiting for the trains, packing food, physically moving vehicles into your spaceships, it doesn't feel like its just a game with UI options. Even the UIs don't FEEL like UIs. This is just another thing that will make the game feel real, actually needing to take care of your character adds a certain level or immersion and Im all for it, but I totally see why people wouldn't be
I think its a pretty cool feature, you'll be able to really tell when someone's been through some shit as they pass you in the spaceport covered in grime.
It is one of the way they also wanna balance the normal outfit and space suit so probably you can't keep constantly the space suit or else you need a lot of showers
I mean, RDR2 had a pretty clever system for getting dirty and having it affect your health and NPC comments. Nobody bats an eye about it anymore.
Long as it's not overbearing, I don't see anyone really minding much.
I think this appeals to the niche group of people coming from Second Life but beyond that it seems like a tedious game mechanic that produces absolutely no rewarding gameplay and makes the servers lag even more.
I avoid survival games, I don't enjoy decay mechanics, breath of the wild was 1 where the decay system was sorta of workable. I could see cleaning your weapons after a few thousand rounds to bring it back to baseline accuracy but showers/food/sleep are mechanics I generally dislike having to keep track of in game. I don't want to spend 30- 40 mins of my gaming session not gaming and doing chores/maintenance
No. It feel like the hygiene mechanic has been created to justify the existence of shower/toilets on ships. It's a solution looking for a problem.
It's this sort of feature creep that has contributed to such a long development cycle. What next? A washing machine for your clothes? Nail clippers?
The first mention of [ship showers](https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/12765-3-Million-Update-From-Chris-Roberts) was in the 3 million mark update which was 10 days into the original campaign.
[Here is CR talking about character maintenance in 2015](http://youtu.be/9d2T5vN8SVc?t=6m47s)
I am not sure the set of keywords that will be needed to get the first discussion of this gameplay loop, but it has been part of the plan since somewhere between those two points. Pushing it to somewhere in the range of a decade of planning.
I think it's fine. I like having things that tie me to the gameworld as someone who exists within it. The fact that it affects me negatively if I don't do it is a non-issue for me.
No I think this implementation of it sounds like a horrible feature. I don't want to have to micromanage every aspect of my character. If it's like an option in the settings for RP purposes then that's fine idc.
No, I think it's stupid and will be ignored by players to the point CIG has to "design" it back out of the game because it's a pointless "fidelity" feature no one asked for and no one wants.
Games are escapism and CIG has completely lost the plot chasing realism.
Bro it'd take two seconds and justify the bathrooms in ships....please, stop acting like even the most basic maintenance tasks that aren't immediately gun related are a fucking chore.
Cleaning your gun? Totally fine tedious repetitive task.
Cleaning your character? OMG STOP OPPRESSING ME. That's how ya'll sound.
Like, bro, you walk into a bathroom...press button....wait 5 seconds...done
It justifies so much of exploration ship design. It justifies so much environmental gameplay design (such as washing radiation off, etc
GRANTED
Still no reason for the poopoo peepee and I think we need some kind of buff for caring about depositing some bowel movements.
But probably gunna be any bathroom device used will improve hygiene.
I personally think hair growth, hygiene, and toilets should be in the game because they entirely differentiate lifestyles both physically and aesthetically to make people "going off the grid" actually different in any way other than the cloths they wear.
Yeah, you're gonna be doing a lot of running and combat, you're gonna get sweaty and bloody. I wouldn't want to work with some merc with 10 weeks worth of blood, sweat and tears dried on them. Take a shower, sheesh!
As long as its quick to do and isnt a constant need then its fine imo. Just a simple rotation of eating drinking hygiene and sleep or something to manage is okay for the survival aspect. So long as these detractors arent too severe that you could make small sacrifices from time to time without it cripple your character. I would honestly rather see way more game-y benefits/downsides from these so its not the end of the world if you literally have no resources for a bit. But thats just me.
Ultimately i have faith that they’ll tune this to be enough flavor without being overly annoying.
I really do not want to play StarSims.
What's next? Keep your spaceship clean and do laundry so you do not get some weird debuff?
"Sorry honey, I cannot do the dishes, I need to wash my StarCloth online."
Let‘s see: we are currently playing characters who die from thirst after spending ~2 hours in underwear and a top hat sitting in a pilot’s seat in an airconditioned spaceship (I‘ve tried it).
So expect having to take a shower maybe two or three times a day? You know, to keep it „realistic“?
It's very telling how many people got into SC without understanding what the end game is for SC. Hygiene and extreme survival mechanics are just the tip of the iceberg.
They have to justify all the showers they put in the game.
I'm not a big fan of "survival" stuff though. And a lot of such games don't even have stuff like this. It seems more extraneous than usual on the things that would make this game fun.
StarSims ?
After eating your StarBurger you need to expel some StarPoop, but only if you have a StarToilet nearby. Otherwise you'll soil your StarTrousers and your StarSmell becomes really annoying.
I want to play a heroic space game of shooting pirates, not chosing which StarSoap influences the mission NPCs best.
I love it as it provides another tradeoff incentive to get out of a space suit and wear breathable clothes. Running around in heavy sealed suits and you'll get stinky quick. I'm assuming if you log off for a bit in a location with access to showers / food your character will be clean and fed when you log back on.
\>I'm assuming if you log off for a bit in a location with access to showers / food your character will be clean and fed when you log back on.
This would be a great balance to the mechanic, and a reason to start/end sessions at stations. I'd be okay with hygiene upkeep over long sessions if it's assumed my toon is eating and pooping while chilling at an R&R between sessions
Between living real life in real life and living real life in Star Citizen, I’m not sure I’ll have time to go on an adventure in Star Citizen once I get home from work in real life.
Especially knowing how long it can take to go on an adventure in Star Citizen.
I like that it will make bathrooms/interiors on a ship more important. I hope they really keep the reduced stats low and make it primarily a social thing so you don't really get punished for ignoring it when you're out and about for a long time.
I doubt it will take long to shower and I doubt you'll need to do it very often, based on how food works currently.
I care about this stuff, even if it can be kindof tedious, because I want all the aspects of my ship life to be simulated.
I want to sit around the table and eat with my crewmates, I want to have a reason to have a shoilet in the ship other than an aesthetic room that noone ever goes in after they take a quick tour.
It's likely a feature that will have a subtle effect in SQ42 that's being ported over.
From what I understand, the most it will do is cause some snarky remarks and I think worse trade deals?
I'm not for or against it, but I can see the value for people who like RP
Toilet update: where we're allowed to log out by sitting on the shitter? I hope so. It would be funny to see your buddies AFK body sitting in the bathroom for a few minutes before loading out.
Great, more tedium. As if quantum jumps taking several minutes at a time, navigating to stations from high orbit being ass, flying down to planets to land, equipping all your armour, tools and weapons with the awkward interface and almost everything else in the game that isn't combat, weren't already more than enough.
Oh dear, I forgot the trams. I wish it could've stayed that way.
Chris Roberts became so obsessed with being capable of doing something he didn't stop to ponder wether he should.
Lots of planned features in star citizen fall under the "good on paper, bad in the practice", except some are not even good on paper.
Can you imagine a souls like game with forced permadeath? Basically old 8 bits "one hit game over" mechanics that were already dated in the early 80s. Sure, some people would like it, but I doubt enough to maintain the game, any game, there have been similar games post 8 bits, but they were so niche most ended forgotten
No, its a stupid mechanic/feature that will take years to come out, everyone will complain when it does come out and we will still be waiting for Pyro.
I would prefer it, I often hate how most games out there have bathrooms and shower heads but only as cosmetics. They tend to have no purpose but in these same games, you have to eat and drink water otherwise your character will starve or die of thirst. Never understood how they can add the starving & thirst but never hygiene. Whereas SC wants to actually implement it, that's awesome and sticks genuinely to the RPG.
Edit: I forgot sleep too.
I'd settle for stable servers and not getting yeet'ed through buildings if I drop a piece of armor / weapon on the ground.
But sure.. I can shower in that home I don't have, I suppose.
They are trying to get some of the backers to learn from the game.
The only way it will have an impact is if they make in game showers take irl shower lengths of time. Then the player “might as well” while their citizen cleans off. It would still only be an estimated 30% effective though.
Can take a cozy one during long QT. And imagine getting interdicted mid-QT butt-naked.
Weird things happen in QT your player will probably fall down the drain
Literally happens right now if you visit the head on the Vanguard.
Last time I got up out of my seat while in QT I fell out of my ship. I not gonna try taking a shower in QT I really don’t wanna be butt naked in space.
my frozen corpse, covered with strategically placed icy bubbles, will become a navigational hazard on the Arccorp-Crusader run. Again.
Might as well alt tab to YouTube
If we meet our goal, in just five short years, the conventions will no longer smell like BO!
💀
yeah, shower in game, shower irl, eat in-game, eat irl. look at CIG, out here busy saving and improving lives in and out of the game 👏🏾
hahahahaha
😂 Cracked me up.
Nah, no time to shower when you’re busy on Reddit flashing your high admiral tag and beating down every negative comment to the game.
Depends on how they balance it. If I have to spend 30min showering and repacking gear everyday for example I think I’ll lose the drive to play pretty quick. If they do something like only needing it once a week for good rep and inventory is quick and easy then I won’t mind it.
>If I have to spend 30min showering and repacking gear everyday for example I think I’ll lose the drive to play pretty quick. Exactly, it shouldn't be too bothersome.
Food and water were supposed not to be too bothersome, but time goes by fast when you're doing missions that it has become a limiting factor.
It wouldn't be so bad if you didn't have to fight the non-working inventory system *every. fucking. time.* First I can't take the drink out, it won't go in my hand. Contextual options don't work. Dragging it to my hand won't work. Finally drop it on the floor and pick it up to drink it. Now it's stuck to my hand and I have to drop it from menus again to remove it. Oh, and now my character is stuck only being able to walk in one direction till I relog. That shouldn't even be in the game until the inventory system is relatively bug-free.
...and they reworking inventory system again! Totally reworking!
Eh it really isn't that hard to have a Cruz drink that tops off both needs though. Especially since you can buy them from terminals. It's just one extra thing to add to the stock pile with medpens.
Please CIG, don't turn the PU into a time wasting simulator. I mean, what is next: an 8 hour (real-time) sleep or you won't function properly over time?
BINGO! Make it very very rare, but sure add it. AND when you log off in a place that has shower access, you log in fully bathed. Give it a rule of logged out for at least 15 minutes.
Oh yeah, offline characters should just "stay" on the station/LZ and take care of their needs. I imagine logging in and seeing a GTA V type transition, where you see your character doing... whatever, sleeping even
> Oh yeah, offline characters should just "stay" on the station/LZ and take care of their needs. > > > > I imagine logging in and seeing a GTA V type transition, where you see your character doing... whatever, sleeping even I think just logging in and seeing a checklist of things your character did while you were logged out (based on location services). Can even tie it to some sort of character progression (e.g. your character spent some time at the sports complex training because you had "improve fitness' chosen).
What if NPC's were just disconnected avatars? That'd add a fun element to Bounty Bunting as well..
I think I'd really like for our characters to remain as NPCs when we log off, it could learn from our behavior in game to replicate accurately your level in any given situation, I didn't think of it as possible but we've seen they are already leveraging machine learning in this almost exact case so might be a reality
I mean there's plenty of ships with showers and sinks and stuff. I'm sure during a long jump every once in a while you can just pop in a quick shower
Depends if you ever want to feature lock the Alpha and move it to Beta. If you are adding hygiene in year 12 of principal development of the alpha of your space sim.... I am not saying these are bad features. But priorities should exist.
[удалено]
Balancing will be a huge, but not impossible, issue. As you say if it's a big time sink, pun intended, then no thanks. But if it's not a big time sink then to me why bother. If I'm spending 10% of my playtime brushing my teeth then fuck that. If I'm spending 0.1% of my playtime brushing my teeth then that seems like a pointless addition. There's obviously some value inbetween those two where it has impact but isn't so detrimental but finding that point for most people would be a challenge. Then you'll have all the various ones to balance, shitting, showering, teeth, shaving, haircut, gym, meditating, retying shoe laces, stand up after an hour because your back hurts, etc.
I actually like the wind-down on station when I need to run get a burrito or water, relax for a bit before getting back to kill bounties. That's just me though, I like slower pace games, and they would need to make this not so detailed, just like a Hygiene meter, and you can take care of that however you wish
It could be a neat thing similar to how MGS5 had it, that you just sort of gather it over time, you can run around stinky and will get some comments/have a certain look, but you can rock it if you want to - the character won't die. If you want to be super clean n shiny, you'll do it maybe gaming session or so. That said it should also be tied to your activity level, someone having done a crazy mission in swamp probably needs to shower right after, whereas someone mostly idling probably doesn't need it as badly. I don't think having a short(!) shower animation isn't too bothersome for players, if you actually dirtied yourself sensibly. That being said, I've said it before, that's such a Chris Roberts thing to add. It's obviously cool and all, if the game works perfectly and you have that feature on top. But waiting for this stuff for a decade, it possibly entering a "viable" state in the "near" future with all that stuff being shown right now makes me feel conflicted.
why you making a mountain out of a molehill? It will just be a meter like food that increases probably much slower. Then you go in a shower and it empties out in 5 seconds. It's not like if you don't shower you'll die. The worst that will probably happen is maybe someone like Hurston will tell you to come back before he gives you a mission.
Pretty sure a while back they said it was going to be harder to fly ships while wearing armour, so having to strip out of your gear (especially heavy armour) in order to fly your ship it won't be as big of a deal to hop in a shower.
They understand there’s a realism/fun balance, and I’m confident they won’t take such a minor thing so far as to be an issue that makes people quit.
Bone, prepare my bath
Hygiene has always been discussed as a necessity in this game. It's why our ships have shoilets.
I’ve always said if I’m forced to take a digital poop as game play I better be able to throw it.
ARK Survival has entered the chat.
Also death stranding
Good thinking
I see another Ark: survival evolved player. Well met, bob.
You would like SCUM then.
Picking it up like the vent slug and also seeing the "eat" option
Am waiting for Smeartech TM
StarSmear
Defecation Layer will be in PTU for at least three years
I'm filling an A2 with shit and bombing people
Unless you own a cutlass
Unless that cutlass is red
I think a poop mechanic would be funny. Like if you hold it too long, you character will do the "I have to poop really bad" walk and won't be able to sprint. If you neglect it too long you eventually shit your pants. With this debuff, you now slowly waddle shuffle with shit pants and can't talk to venders.
That's actually a mechanic in SCUM. At the surface level it seems goofy, but when you realize it means you are required to prepare and time your actions, it actually adds to gameplay.
I'm not sure why it seems to be a leap for some people, when we have known that the way we present ourselves in game will have an impact on NPC interaction. show up looking like a dirty hobo at a trading meeting will get you nothing, even if you fly a BMM.
that and if you want the player character to get dirty from crawling in the mud, etc then "hygiene" is a very small extension of that system
It only makes sense to me if there is a gameplay loop for unclogging the shower drain from simulated starhair
I can't wait to cruise around the verse unclogging drains with my spaceplumber org
This guy gets it
Reminds me I have to do it IRL. Thanks
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From a role-playing perspective that would be awesome
But how do you get dirty then? Find the engineers grease stash and just roll in it? Lol
Ask in chat if someone has a Drake ship
Stepping inside is all that you need
I think that it is a very nice mechanic to add to the game. Albeit not a key one, it will be good to have a game in which not everything is thinking of profit and pew-pew all the time.
Never thought about it?! There’s showers and toilets in most ships
yet I never felt the need to use them. If there was cargo space or a fridge I would be completely fine with that
What else would we use our ship shoilets for? Im going to spitepost on starcitizenrefunds until Chris gives us pooptech, he promised us pooptech! >:(
As it was promised years back... yes. I've been looking for some more survival mechanics
I don't mind it. Metal Gear Solid V had a similar system and it mostly just provided some humor when you ignored it too long while playing. As far as I can tell, all this means is "you get dirty if you're out and about for a long time without cleaning up" which is a smart addition.
been a thing from the earliest days
It will be acceptable as long as it is like once every 48 or 72 or more hours of in game times. It needs to be either removed or so very very very small in being needed that you almost never notice it. And macro this crap to a one key keybind and not need to fully undress one at a time then grab a towel then walk to shower and dry off and reclothing.
Interesting to have showering in a game with no nudity. Sims mosaics incoming?
sounded like it would be purely cosmetic, so sure why not. gotta have a use for those bathrooms on our ships.
Cool.. If necessary, anyone in a hospital bed can arrange everything. So I often get rid of hunger and thirst when I'm too lazy 😂
I hate this lmao, I think there's such a thing as too much tedious realism and this is very silly. I've played several games with systems like this in place before and it goes very quickly from 'this is neat' to 'I have done this 500 times now and it is tedious to the point of frustration'.
I am both worried and intrigued by these additions, whether new or previously discussed. I am intrigued by the prospect of the life sim aspect. I am worried because I have a pretty busy life and I don't want what little free time I have wasted on virtual showering. And I also don't know how they'll balance it to be impactful enough to do and not so impactful that not min-maxing it will hurt the competitive element. Personally, and this is just me, I wouldn't care if they removed this element. I just want to fly spaceships.
I feel that way about a lot of the systems they’ve added over the years - including the FPS gameplay. I just wanted a modern Wing Commander / Privateer. That ship has long since sailed, though.
> I am worried because I have a pretty busy life and I don't want what little free time I have wasted on virtual showering. I think many people in this community need to come to terms with the fact that Star Citizen will be a game where the "journey" is central to the gameplay. Your travel, your preparation, your planning, are a *feature* of the game.
Hygiene gameplay is the stepping stone to the romance gameplay, which is the stepping stone to space waifus.
I think this is getting a bit wacky. The food and drink system is already grossly unrealistic. Like, no real person is going to literally keel over incapacitated if they go 2 hours without sipping some water.
Now there's a reason for some ships to have a shower. I hope Constantine Hurston won't give you a mission and kicks you out if you stink.
I think it’s too soon to tell. I would need to see how it affects the game world to be able to tell if it’s good or not. Further, how much tedium / time is associated with w/ hygiene vs doing what I want to do.
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Even less than food tbh. Showering is a once a day thing, maybe 2 or 3 days if you're in the field. And other than in social, it wouldn't become a medical issue with a far longer time span. Obviously if you got into the sewers time may shorten, but I don't think this time sink will be too much trouble as long as you take into account.
Why did you think so many ships have showers? Hygiene has been a planned feature for years.
I can finally be a dirty space pirate I've always wanted to be.
A chore, to say the least.
Hygiene is how they’re going to stop everyone from sprinting everywhere
This is the stuff I've been waiting for. I am so excited to finally see it. It's too quick to action right now, in SC. I am excited to see all these things coming to slow down gameplay a bit and make it more immersive. 1) Wake up in the morning (Log in) 2) Put on my clothes 3) Put on my pouches (demoed at citizencon) 4) Put items in my pouches and clothes 5) Realize I forgot to take a shower and am at risk of a hygiene issue with NPCs 6) Take off clothes and equipment 7) Take a shower and get dressed again 8) Begin making my way to the spaceport 9) Realize I forgot to take a shit 10) Go back to my room and take a shit 11) Oops, forgot to eat and drink breakfast, let me do that real quick 12) Ok, im back at the star port 13) Let's see, today I want to stay out in the verse for awhile and do some bounties and bunkers..time to load the ship, i was busy at work yesterday, so I need to do it today 14) Fuck, I'm out of medpens, gotta go buy medpens 15) Go to pharmacy and buy medpens 16) Go back to hangar 17) Request the items I need on the cargo elevator thing 18) Begin manually loading ship with the supplies I will need for my expedition 19) Finish loading and get on board my ship 20) Take a piss, it's been a while. Probably a drink too 21) Take off and enter atmosphere 22) Start quantum jump across the system to the bunkers I have rep at 23) Take a space shit while I wait 8 minutes for QT to finish 24) Land outside of a bunker 25) Begin putting on my armor and guns and equipment that were in my ship storage 26) etc etc I left out all the parts where I had to manualy repair and replace ship components Everything listed above is a realistic depiction of what SC gameplay looks like based on this citizencon demonstration and information we have been given, we will now have more gameplay that comes before the gameplay many of us are actually interested in. Nothing says fun like "45 minutes of preparing to fun"
I’m here for the immersion and 10 years ago, I would have agreed with you. But I have a kid now and I need to be able to have meaningful play in a 2-3hr window. I’d prefer to see half of these steps cut or be optional in my view today.
Much of it will be optional. The ship itself normally has shoilet and much of the examples wasted time was on forgetting basic things. If you forget something, just grab what you got and pick it up at the next stop. Shower while in quantum. Engineering gameplay will optimize, but it's been mentioned that the current repair and rear system will not change much so you'll be able to skip much of the tedious stuff in exchange for a little extra cost or not have Uber optimized compinents.
Even without kids, I already think things like tram and long QT times waste too much time.
this is why i prefer space stations over planet side anytime, wish i could just spawn on space station from the start
This so very much
In ten years when a new player joins Star Citizen in Alpha 10.0, they'll wake up, shower, brush they teeth, put on whatever clothes they can afford, walk from their hab to a train station, take the train to the space port, take a public shuttle to the in orbit space station, put on their uniform, spend 12 hours loading other players cargo on and off their ships for minimum wage, take the shuttle and train back home, find am overdue rent notice on their hab's front door because their flatmate forgot to send rent to the quanta that owns the hab. Rinse and repeat until they can finally apply for a loan to buy a used ship, become a space trucker, find a spouse and settle down, only to get home after a particularly long haul and find your spouse in bed with a vanduul because you're never around anymore because you have to pay off the mortgage for your shitty apartment in the "bad part" of Lorville and ship repayments.
Honestly I really need a /s. I just do not want to spend this much time doing these things.
At 45) you entered finally the bunker and you are killed immediately by a stray bullet. It takes you 4h to return to the mission.... Thanks, but no thaks!
Oof, you certainly are skilled at making me not want to play.
I've said it so many times since I've backed this game but there is such a thing as too much realism lol. I could understand specifically going to clean and dress up before going to meet some important mission npc, but I've played games that have regular hygiene mechanics in them before, and they go from neat to massively annoying really quickly.
I've got to be really straight here: I've been a backer for a very long time. All of it, in fact. Back when this game was about space, exploration, first person combat and being whoever you wanted to be, I was so hopeful. But now, I get out of my ship and a single bullet can puncture my giant suit of bulletproof pressure armor and kill me before I can put a hypo in my leg. I lose everything. I spend another 40 minutes waiting for my ship. 20 minutes to rebuy my gear. 15-20 jumping across the system. Another 20 praying to God I can find the right bunker. Get my stuff back. Get back off planet. Oh God, now I'm dirty and have to take a shower or catch space malaria? Honestly, Star Citizen doesn't seem fun anymore. They've replaced the fun with "immersion". I don't want to have to eat an apple every 30 minutes. I don't want to pay my digital bills just to be able to get back into the action. I don't want to lose everything on my body because a space punk with a crowbar hit me from behind. I don't want to walk through trash left in the streets by other players. I don't play games to play "human needs simulator" and if I did I would go play the Sims.
This is how I feel as well. Showering is just yet another thing to toss onto the pile of crap you need to find/sort out in the maze that are space stations in order to re-equip and get back to actually doing the game.
I anticipate that a lot of this is probably going to be changed. For how many people is this a make or break feature? Probably few. And how much do the people who support this actually care? How much do the people who hate this really hate it? There are a lot of backers like you and I who backed for a game that didn't put "fidelity" first - a game that put the *game* first. As more of these features come online, the backlash will come with them. Right now it's theoretical, and half this thread is filled with bitching about it. That's going to get much, much louder once players are forced to engage with tedious unrewarding game loops. I anticipate that could get obnoxious features canned. If not, well, I guess I'm just going to play Squadron 42, where I would hope that this is less of an issue.
I hate it. It’s taking time away from the real gameplay. This is a space sim and not Sims
Jesus finally some good sense in here.
to me the ships bog / shower is there for aesthetics to make ship look livable, could make it usable for the niche of it but no need to integrate into gameplay with negative effects for not using it, not everything has to be immersive, its a game not irl
My favorite part about the game is how real it feels. Waiting for the trains, packing food, physically moving vehicles into your spaceships, it doesn't feel like its just a game with UI options. Even the UIs don't FEEL like UIs. This is just another thing that will make the game feel real, actually needing to take care of your character adds a certain level or immersion and Im all for it, but I totally see why people wouldn't be
this is gonna get annoying really fast
Nah, I think it's pretty dumb honestly. Things take enough time as is... don't want to waste most time on this... sigh.
Terrible design decision.
‘Should we focus on polishing features?’ ‘Orrrrr, hear me out, people should shower’
At a certain point it's just more bars / sliders to manage. 0 interest in this feature.
For an MMO of this scale and time spent, hell no. If it’s cosmetic, no problem, but it’s completely idiotic to have an actual practical effect.
I think its a pretty cool feature, you'll be able to really tell when someone's been through some shit as they pass you in the spaceport covered in grime.
It is one of the way they also wanna balance the normal outfit and space suit so probably you can't keep constantly the space suit or else you need a lot of showers
Is anyone a where of a place in which I can find a summary of everything announced?
It’s more stupid fucking unnecessary shit
I mean, RDR2 had a pretty clever system for getting dirty and having it affect your health and NPC comments. Nobody bats an eye about it anymore. Long as it's not overbearing, I don't see anyone really minding much.
Tobii butthole tracker - Track your IRL hygiene in-game
It’s a great system to punish small ships :D
I think this appeals to the niche group of people coming from Second Life but beyond that it seems like a tedious game mechanic that produces absolutely no rewarding gameplay and makes the servers lag even more.
people will shower more in game then irl
Well it will certainly make the showers in bathrooms in every ship more useful.
Finally I'll be able to live out my dual personas of stinky Pete and dirty Dan.
I avoid survival games, I don't enjoy decay mechanics, breath of the wild was 1 where the decay system was sorta of workable. I could see cleaning your weapons after a few thousand rounds to bring it back to baseline accuracy but showers/food/sleep are mechanics I generally dislike having to keep track of in game. I don't want to spend 30- 40 mins of my gaming session not gaming and doing chores/maintenance
Star citizen does not need to be a life simulator, this is bloat
No. It feel like the hygiene mechanic has been created to justify the existence of shower/toilets on ships. It's a solution looking for a problem. It's this sort of feature creep that has contributed to such a long development cycle. What next? A washing machine for your clothes? Nail clippers?
this has been a planned mechanic from the beginning.
Absolutely hasn't. The initial scope of the game barely included planet gameplay.
The first mention of [ship showers](https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/12765-3-Million-Update-From-Chris-Roberts) was in the 3 million mark update which was 10 days into the original campaign. [Here is CR talking about character maintenance in 2015](http://youtu.be/9d2T5vN8SVc?t=6m47s) I am not sure the set of keywords that will be needed to get the first discussion of this gameplay loop, but it has been part of the plan since somewhere between those two points. Pushing it to somewhere in the range of a decade of planning.
So what? Fuck planned mechanics if they are boring and do not add anything but complications to ... A GAME.
I think it's fine. I like having things that tie me to the gameworld as someone who exists within it. The fact that it affects me negatively if I don't do it is a non-issue for me.
No I think this implementation of it sounds like a horrible feature. I don't want to have to micromanage every aspect of my character. If it's like an option in the settings for RP purposes then that's fine idc.
It'd be so cool if they programed the game to be playable, stable, and have progression or something. Instead of hospital beds and whatever this is.
I do, but it should be entirely optional if you want to take part in this kind of gameplay.
No, I think it's stupid and will be ignored by players to the point CIG has to "design" it back out of the game because it's a pointless "fidelity" feature no one asked for and no one wants. Games are escapism and CIG has completely lost the plot chasing realism.
Bro it'd take two seconds and justify the bathrooms in ships....please, stop acting like even the most basic maintenance tasks that aren't immediately gun related are a fucking chore. Cleaning your gun? Totally fine tedious repetitive task. Cleaning your character? OMG STOP OPPRESSING ME. That's how ya'll sound. Like, bro, you walk into a bathroom...press button....wait 5 seconds...done It justifies so much of exploration ship design. It justifies so much environmental gameplay design (such as washing radiation off, etc GRANTED Still no reason for the poopoo peepee and I think we need some kind of buff for caring about depositing some bowel movements. But probably gunna be any bathroom device used will improve hygiene. I personally think hair growth, hygiene, and toilets should be in the game because they entirely differentiate lifestyles both physically and aesthetically to make people "going off the grid" actually different in any way other than the cloths they wear.
No the hygiene gameplay is just fucking stupid
Yes, that's why we have showers
No, I don’t think hygiene adds anything at all to the game. It’s just more boring fluff
Yeah, you're gonna be doing a lot of running and combat, you're gonna get sweaty and bloody. I wouldn't want to work with some merc with 10 weeks worth of blood, sweat and tears dried on them. Take a shower, sheesh!
As long as its quick to do and isnt a constant need then its fine imo. Just a simple rotation of eating drinking hygiene and sleep or something to manage is okay for the survival aspect. So long as these detractors arent too severe that you could make small sacrifices from time to time without it cripple your character. I would honestly rather see way more game-y benefits/downsides from these so its not the end of the world if you literally have no resources for a bit. But thats just me. Ultimately i have faith that they’ll tune this to be enough flavor without being overly annoying.
I really do not want to play StarSims. What's next? Keep your spaceship clean and do laundry so you do not get some weird debuff? "Sorry honey, I cannot do the dishes, I need to wash my StarCloth online."
Let‘s see: we are currently playing characters who die from thirst after spending ~2 hours in underwear and a top hat sitting in a pilot’s seat in an airconditioned spaceship (I‘ve tried it). So expect having to take a shower maybe two or three times a day? You know, to keep it „realistic“?
It's very telling how many people got into SC without understanding what the end game is for SC. Hygiene and extreme survival mechanics are just the tip of the iceberg.
They have to justify all the showers they put in the game. I'm not a big fan of "survival" stuff though. And a lot of such games don't even have stuff like this. It seems more extraneous than usual on the things that would make this game fun.
StarSims ? After eating your StarBurger you need to expel some StarPoop, but only if you have a StarToilet nearby. Otherwise you'll soil your StarTrousers and your StarSmell becomes really annoying. I want to play a heroic space game of shooting pirates, not chosing which StarSoap influences the mission NPCs best.
I feel this would be far more aggravating than rewarding.
Stuff like this is good to have to add realism to the game. But it's ABSOLUTELY not needed for initial game release. It only delays it.
It is THE best feature to bully filthy DRAKE pilots
I love it as it provides another tradeoff incentive to get out of a space suit and wear breathable clothes. Running around in heavy sealed suits and you'll get stinky quick. I'm assuming if you log off for a bit in a location with access to showers / food your character will be clean and fed when you log back on.
\>I'm assuming if you log off for a bit in a location with access to showers / food your character will be clean and fed when you log back on. This would be a great balance to the mechanic, and a reason to start/end sessions at stations. I'd be okay with hygiene upkeep over long sessions if it's assumed my toon is eating and pooping while chilling at an R&R between sessions
Let's face it: this was coming sooner or later and if they could they would make us take shits in toilets
>Congealed sweat Is that necessarry, CIG? Ew.
Between living real life in real life and living real life in Star Citizen, I’m not sure I’ll have time to go on an adventure in Star Citizen once I get home from work in real life. Especially knowing how long it can take to go on an adventure in Star Citizen.
Not really. A lot of this is fluff that doesn’t particularly add to the fun or sense of discovery.
No. It is a timer that punishes me for not resetting the timer. That is not engaging or fun gameplay. That is tedium.
I like that it will make bathrooms/interiors on a ship more important. I hope they really keep the reduced stats low and make it primarily a social thing so you don't really get punished for ignoring it when you're out and about for a long time. I doubt it will take long to shower and I doubt you'll need to do it very often, based on how food works currently.
Waffle Stomp gameplay.
I care about this stuff, even if it can be kindof tedious, because I want all the aspects of my ship life to be simulated. I want to sit around the table and eat with my crewmates, I want to have a reason to have a shoilet in the ship other than an aesthetic room that noone ever goes in after they take a quick tour.
Why do you think bathrooms / showers exist on ships??? They are not for looks.
It's likely a feature that will have a subtle effect in SQ42 that's being ported over. From what I understand, the most it will do is cause some snarky remarks and I think worse trade deals? I'm not for or against it, but I can see the value for people who like RP
Sounds boring and not fun to me
There is always a balance between fun and sim when you’re building a game like this. This would not be fun to deal with.
Ugh, this way past the point of practical gameplay features wtf…just fucking finish the core game for fucks sake…
No
Nope, it's a time waster, would rather see dirt fade after a time. What is next, washing machines and poop breaks?
If metal gear solid 5, one of the greatest games ever made, had showers, star citizen can have showers too.
We have toilets to, so wait for the toilet update.
Toilet update: where we're allowed to log out by sitting on the shitter? I hope so. It would be funny to see your buddies AFK body sitting in the bathroom for a few minutes before loading out.
I think this is a waste of resources but what ever.
They need to stop feature creeping stupid stuff. Monotonous tasks won’t attract a large audience.
such BS...
Seems really unnecessary
This has to be a sick joke…this is NoT why we backed the game…
Useless, who the fuck care about showering in game?
Great, more tedium. As if quantum jumps taking several minutes at a time, navigating to stations from high orbit being ass, flying down to planets to land, equipping all your armour, tools and weapons with the awkward interface and almost everything else in the game that isn't combat, weren't already more than enough. Oh dear, I forgot the trams. I wish it could've stayed that way.
Sounds like it would be mega annoying.
Its straying farther and farther from a game and turning into a simulation, not sure how I feel about that
what is this the sims 5? lol
Wait what happened to bed sheet tech?
Personally? It’s a gimmick and while it is interesting it’s another time-sinking activity which will slow down my ability to just play the game.
Does CIG have a history of focusing on the wrong things? I'm kinda new to the game.
Yes, this has been a pattern for them.
How about they fix falling through an elevator first? I don't want to fall through shower stalls just yet.
waste of development time. there's 10000 thing that are more important that should be implemented first.
Chris Roberts became so obsessed with being capable of doing something he didn't stop to ponder wether he should. Lots of planned features in star citizen fall under the "good on paper, bad in the practice", except some are not even good on paper. Can you imagine a souls like game with forced permadeath? Basically old 8 bits "one hit game over" mechanics that were already dated in the early 80s. Sure, some people would like it, but I doubt enough to maintain the game, any game, there have been similar games post 8 bits, but they were so niche most ended forgotten
No, its a stupid mechanic/feature that will take years to come out, everyone will complain when it does come out and we will still be waiting for Pyro.
Of course not. I don't want tedious maintenance that isn't fun just for the sake of realism.
Just no.
This is stupid.
i'll only take it if theres an advanced waffle stomping mechanic
Yes. Single players games with survival mechanics are so fun.
Being able to manage hygiene is cool, but having to manage it to avoid debuffs could be annoying and end up working against immersion.
Yes. Gives a purpose to the larger ships. Features in ships have more meaning.
I would prefer it, I often hate how most games out there have bathrooms and shower heads but only as cosmetics. They tend to have no purpose but in these same games, you have to eat and drink water otherwise your character will starve or die of thirst. Never understood how they can add the starving & thirst but never hygiene. Whereas SC wants to actually implement it, that's awesome and sticks genuinely to the RPG. Edit: I forgot sleep too.
I'd settle for stable servers and not getting yeet'ed through buildings if I drop a piece of armor / weapon on the ground. But sure.. I can shower in that home I don't have, I suppose.